Will someone please explain [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

ReineD

01-15-2012, 02:24 AM

It's just really mind boggling to me! Either your straight with no interest in the same sex or bi or gay. There really isn't a on or off switch to it.

It's a mystery to me as well. Two men having sex together are having homosexual sex, no matter how they're dressed. If it's just a fantasy, then it is a homoerotic fantasy.

I believe there's an element of denial involved as some have suggested here, but I also think it's deeper than that. I may be way off, but this is my best guess:

Most guys who have feminine desires or tendencies (even if they don't recognize them as such) need to bury them pretty deep if they will survive childhood and their teen years. Guys growing up are not supposed to like pretty things, they're not supposed to be passive or submissive. They're busy positioning themselves along the male pecking order. So, CDers need to compartmentalize their inner landscapes to the point of not allowing themselves to do some things in guy mode, that might give a clue as to what is going on internally, that non-CDs have no issues doing when they reach maturity. Some of these things might be dancing, or art appreciation, or enjoying cooking or sewing, or having an opinion about what color goes on the wall. The compartmentalized preferences are different for everyone. Until they've reached self-acceptance, CDers don't want anyone (including themselves) to come close to guessing who they really are. I think that (many?) CDers have built such a thick wall around their feminine desires that they grow up to actually believe they are different people when they're dressed. How many members here refer to their femme personas in the third person? How many say they have different interests when they're dressed, such as loving to do housework, or enjoying different music, or knitting, or being more outgoing? These CDers are not integrated because they've never given themselves permission in guy mode to follow interests that might have gotten them creamed when they were younger, had their peers had any inkling about the CDing desires. So is it a surprise that they also compartmentalize sexual fantasy?

Either that, or it is pure fetichism of the autogynephilia variety, and the guy is the ultimate femme accessory ... and when face to face with a real guy the illusion shatters pretty quickly (if the CDer is hetero). If the fantasy doesn't shatter, then he certainly is not hetero. :p

At least a CDer has a reason for the compartmentalization. But can you imagine the level of denial among the admirers? :straightface:

Launa

01-15-2012, 02:40 AM

I don't get it either that you can say your straight but fantasise about being with a man. The only thing I can think of is once you dress 100% all the way as a woman you might take on that complete personality. Kind of like some dudes that are 100% straight then wind up going to prison for some reason and do homosexual things while they are there but are straight again once they leave the joint.

JulieK1980

01-15-2012, 02:45 AM

jody I'm not as sure as you seem to be as I do sleep with a man now exclusively and used to sleep exclusively with a woman before and we are both straight as an arrow. it's just the same person only both transitioned and still in love with each other after 43 plus years

Danni

Transitioning does sort of throw a wrench in the ability to explain, and in that case it does sort of depend on a persons definition of gender. ;) My explanation was overly simplified, so of course it leaves some definite holes....

Congratulations on 43 years! That is amazing! :)

lynnshe

01-15-2012, 02:56 AM

As a SO of a CDer and a GG that has always been involved in the world of the Arts, I think I have been able to understand the fluidity of sexuality a little better because it has always been around me. I think this is why when my husband admitted at first his "curiosities" it has never shocked me and has opened up myself to explore some of my own. As a GG that has always been "allowed" by society to dress up and play different roles, I always think it is a shame that men are not given the same freedom and in my opinion leads to alot of the confusion. Straight, gay, or bi....mean different things to different people depending on the programming we have been giving and the older I get titlles mean less and less and the person themselves mean more and more.

paulaprimo

01-15-2012, 03:28 AM

i joined this forum for answers myself. i have tons of questions, and we can all speculate. my philosophy is live and let live. i don't know why i act or don't act a certain way. i'm sure a lot of it was the way i was raised. i make no claim of being straight now, cause i'm not. and when i was straight for 45 years, in my mind i still wasn't. its a cruel mean ugly world out there and i always had an attraction for nice, decent, caring "PEOPLE" with big hearts, regardless of there gender. it wasn't until i dressed that i acted on those feelings. i don't know why and i can't explain it. it just made me happy. when i'm in drab i have no desire to be with a man, just women. and if my "SO" accepted me when dressed, i'm not sure if i could be sexual with her. this is all above my pay grade... and its going to take someone a lot smarter than me to explain it!

Badtranny

01-15-2012, 04:19 AM

This is all very simple, yet extremely difficult to do.

Men who have other than hetero desires may not be gay, but they sure as hell ain't straight either. The closet cases argue with me as if I'm the enemy, when the enemy is the closet. I spent most of my life being closeted and trying desperately to be just a regular straight dude. I had times when I felt "gayer" than other times. Sometimes I felt like I wanted to be a man very much, and other times I felt like I wanted to just be myself, whatever that was. For years i was "totally straight" to anybody that asked, yet I was having secret gay sex at least a couple of times a year. Eventually I finally decided that I must be bisexual. I could admit I was bi, that seemed like it was better than the truth. How could I NOT like women after all? They are so beautiful and yadda yadda. It was just a year before I started doing real work on my issues that I finally came out to myself as gay. Totally gay. Men and only men.

The point is, this compartmentalization that CD's do in regard to their sexuality is a direct result of their inability to accept themselves for who they are. Gay, Bi, whatever, but sex with a man in a wig is still sex with a man and whatever that is, it is NOT hetero or straight. Accept it, own it, be proud of it. You will never be truly happy until you can stop being ashamed of yourself. Coming out to the world is optional as a CD, but coming out to yourself is not.

I was a closet queen for many many years. I am intimately familiar with the excuses and the denial. This "while I'm dressed" BS may work on your SO, but I see right through it because I lived it. Being with a man is wonderful and I'm ashamed that I denied it for so long, as if there was something wrong with me. This is just how I am, and I'm finally okay with it. How about you?

It's a mystery to me as well. Two men having sex together are having homosexual sex, no matter how they're dressed. If it's just a fantasy, then it is a homoerotic fantasy.

Reine, that post was just brilliant. You amaze the hell out of me the way you read men. I'm honestly humbled sometimes because I like to say that nobody knows men like a TS woman, but you consistently prove that wrong. Brava lady.

Nicole Erin

01-15-2012, 05:03 AM

Men get what they want and leave. Men who chase TG want us to do manly things to them.

If you have fantasies of being with a man, try it and then you will never again fantasize about it.

noeleena

01-15-2012, 06:06 AM

Hi.

Not all women marry or wont to jump in to bed with a guy, or with another woman , & there are some men the same.

For my self tho i should be interested in both men & women because of the way i am & i was put in the postion of being asked , & some one wonted me to jump in to bed with him & he was a dresser,

For the ? i said very nicely ....no.... i was not interested at all & never will be .even tho im a woman.

& to this guy I told him , touch me inapropritly .....i'll deck you....... so dont even think of it, so, to test me , he sat close as next to me just did not touch me & there was another woman ( natal ) there so i had back up.

As i'v said before you corner me i come out ....fighting,....

I have no delusions about who i am & what i can & wont do.

The funny thing is when i was asked the person who asked said they wonted to do just that tho they have not had surgery, & more likely never will .i belive this person is trans tho im not , yet why was i asked maybe because i have had surgery's. & in thier thinking they thought i was trans hmmm not this kid.

Tho the ? does come up a lot concerning the sexual detale's , I do understand just not for me.

...noeleena...

Shari

01-15-2012, 06:19 AM

This is the whole Jimmy Carter thing all over again. In a Penthouse interview he was asked what the photos of the naked women did to (for) him.
He said he "lusted in his heart" and therefore was committing a sin.

So, if you think about being gay, then you are? What sort of logic is that?
I'd like to be the president, but you won't be seeing me in the oval office anytime soon.

if you have been with a man, yes, you're gay. If you only fantasize, no, you're not. It's the act itself, not the thought of the act.

Joann Smith

01-15-2012, 07:15 AM

They lie!! What Crossdressers do best! Just ask my wife!

True ...Crossdressers do lie ....then put different clothes on it and make it look like the truth..LOL

Lucy_Bella

01-15-2012, 07:24 AM

Either that, or it is pure fetichism of the autogynephilia variety, and the guy is the ultimate femme accessory ... and when face to face with a real guy the illusion shatters pretty quickly (if the CDer is hetero). If the fantasy doesn't shatter, then he certainly is not hetero. :p

At least a CDer has a reason for the compartmentalization. But can you imagine the level of denial among the admirers? :straightface:

I believe this would be true... I have found myself in this position a few times ( now I could have acted on it and no one would ever known right?).. I don't consider " myself " as passable but in Lucy mode I have had a few admirers un-be-nounced to me.. I must say, to fall into a fantasized role was nothing I ever asked for( because even in Lucy mode I am the same person as in " guy mode").. But then again maybe not, maybe I am a feminine guy shielded behind a masculine front?

Lets define Masculinity= Wikipedia "Masculinity is possessing qualities or characteristics considered typical of or appropriate to a man"

Okay in the definition it is clearly a role set a side by a Society , is it not? Or could it be something we as men or women are born with? But in this definition it does not state or attribute to any sexual attraction.. Why? I think it's safe to say there is a sexual attraction to Masculinity. I was attracted to a female who had Masculinity traits about her.. But she was more Feminine than Masculine by far. But when she acted Masculine I had no sexual attraction to her/him what so ever.. She scared me in fact, she was my opposite but posed a threat to my Masculinity even if I was in Lucy mode.. Masculinity/ Femininity is a unspoken language we as people define through motion ,thought and behavior .. It's what attracts or turns us off sexually as well..

So in being myself even as Lucy I may look Feminine but I do not act it in anyway..I am only attracted to Feminine "women" which brings me back to my situation I mentioned above when I found myself a few times in a fantasized role with another male.. It could have happen , no one was there to stop it but me and I did stop it.. What can I say? I am Straight..

LeaP

01-15-2012, 07:53 AM

It's just really mind boggling to me! Either your straight with no interest in the same sex or bi or gay. There really isn't a on or off switch to it.

Would that orientation and motivations were always that clear and easy. I DO believe orientation is inborn. That doesn't mean that people aren't confused or conflicted, nor does it mean that it isn't tangled up in other issues like crossdressing. Straighten one out (pun intended) and another resolves, sometimes in an unexpected direction.

Lea

Maria 60

01-15-2012, 08:08 AM

Myself looking in the mirror and seeing a women is fantasy and imagining that iam with a man when dressed is also fantasy.

Raychel

01-15-2012, 08:15 AM

I really can't explain it, It totally doesn't make any sense to me either. But I guess every person is a little differant, maybe it does work for some.

Myself, I am still the same guy, atracted to the same women. My personality doesn't change, my voice doesn't change. My walk, My taste in food, people, clothing, doesn't change, Just me the way I would prefer to dress.

ArleneRaquel

01-15-2012, 08:25 AM

I admit that I'm bi, but when in drab my desire for male intimacy is practically non existent. I don't hide who or what I am.

Nigella

01-15-2012, 08:40 AM

Sexual orientation is not related to the clothing you wear. Buck naked, you will still be attracted to whichever sex or sexes you find sensual to you. I believe that a lot of CDers who profess to be "bi when dressed" are only suppressing their true sexuality behind society's conformity.

One other thing that springs to mind, how much of what you see on this forum is just a load of hogwash, how many actually are "bi when dressed" or just living the fantasy of being a woman?

ArleneRaquel

01-15-2012, 08:46 AM

How can someone know what triggers what reactions in another person ? The bisexuality is always there, but such action may but maybe heightened by outside stimuli.

KaTanya

01-15-2012, 09:03 AM

That's kind of the point of fantasy- pretending to be something you're not as a diversion from reality. In that sense, if in the fantasy they are a woman being intimate with a man, for all intents and purposes the fantasy is still of a heterosexual nature- only the roles are inverted from the reality. It wouldn't change the reality of them only having had real-lfe intimacy with women.

Dealight

01-15-2012, 09:12 AM

Wow, interesting thread! I love all the answers...very insightful. But I probably defer to Karen's remark as being spot-on..... :)

It IS a funny thing, tho, and SweetPea, I have had the same questions. I remember reading Alice in Genderland and being REALLY confused at times! I have tried to honestly assess my own feelings about such matters. I've come to the conclusion that sexual identity and preferences can be, as someone earlier stated, rather fluid..(and no Karen, there is no pun intended! :)

As for me....dressed or not, I am in love with the feminine form....don't want to hold hands with any hairy paws....... :)

soulsister GG

01-15-2012, 09:32 AM

Great question Sweetpea as I myself have wondered that. I think I am more confused now. Wish it was more black and white but I'm learning nothing in this world is black and white, why would I assume this to be.

I used to have a fantasy about being with a woman, I'm not attracted to women and I don't think I am lesbian. I never could act on it, but when I found out my BF liked to dress I thought to myself..."self, this IS the woman you have fantasized about." Maybe that is why I could never act out on it before... :) And I consider myself totally straight. Being in a long distance relationship I haven't had the opportunity to see if I would act on it with him/her or not yet.

PretzelGirl

01-15-2012, 10:30 AM

This one is always a subject that generates a lot of thought and there are good ones above. I have a couple to add.

First, I believe the topic that at least was the final driver to this post was made by an admirer. To each of us, there is no doubt that an admirer would have the goal of gay sex if sex is their goal. Just the dating and and company may be the goal, so I want to be fair. It is said at some admirers are really Crossdressers expressing themselves differently. So it is a different set of dynamics.

But I think the main reason that this subject draws so much discussion is because our language fails to easily address all the variances between gender and sex. And unfortunately, the premise of gay vs straight starts with what gender the two individuals involved are. So if someone is transitioning MTF, when does a relationship with a man go from being gay to straight? What if one of the two feels they are absolutely in the middle? What if one is Intersexed? Are we just going to fallback on presentation? Then what about someone who is androgynous? So then we fall back on the physical body? What about someone fully transitioned who can't afford surgery? Our words fail us. What a mess!

Badtranny

01-15-2012, 10:50 AM

I used to have a fantasy about being with a woman, I'm not attracted to women and I don't think I am lesbian. I never could act on it, but when I found out my BF liked to dress I thought to myself..."self, this IS the woman you have fantasized about." Maybe that is why I could never act out on it before... :) And I consider myself totally straight.

You ARE totally straight SoulSis. A CD male is not physically different from a non CD male. All of the parts and hair and innate masculinity is still there. Enjoy your man. ;-)

Now before I get hammered for not taking into account how femmy a sub segment of CD's are, I'm specifically talking about the average semi closeted or closeted CD that makes up the vast majority of the CD population. If the act of putting on women's clothes make you aroused, how are you gonna tell me you're not a man?

The gals that are chiming in and admitting they are indeed bi, or that it's really just a fantasy and they know it, or even that they like to fantasize they are women are to be commended. This is the kind of honest disclosure that helps the CIS women understand the community. It's truly amazing how powerful honesty can be.

We all know that sexuality is fluid, but that doesn't excuse the "magic clothes" assertion. Sure, you may feel more sensual when you're "playing" and thus more likely to have sexier or more adventurous feelings but that's really normal for bisexual people. They are drawn to one side or another depending on how they're feeling for one reason or another. Sometimes I even want to make out with a hot girl if she hits me at the right time, and kissing women is NOT one of my favorite things. If you are sexually fluid than good for you, it's a blast and life is short, but don't freak out the straights by saying your clothes are somehow magic. All that does is make them think that ALL Cd'rs are subject to the gay making clothes. That ANY man will be gay if he puts on a dress. I know THAT ain't true.

Tina B.

01-15-2012, 10:52 AM

Wait, do I understand this, if you fantasize about sex with a man, you are gay? Does that mean if I fantasize about being rich, that will make me a millionaire? Now if you act on that fantasy, well maybe you have a point, but fantasy is just that, even if it is homo erotic. And no I don't have such fantasy's, I'm just here for the clothes.
Tina

Laurie A

01-15-2012, 11:06 AM

Most guys who have feminine desires or tendencies (even if they don't recognize them as such) need to bury them pretty deep if they will survive childhood and their teen years. Guys growing up are not supposed to like pretty things, they're not supposed to be passive or submissive. They're busy positioning themselves along the male pecking order. So, CDers need to compartmentalize their inner landscapes to the point of not allowing themselves to do some things in guy mode, that might give a clue as to what is going on internally, that non-CDs have no issues doing when they reach maturity. Some of these things might be dancing, or art appreciation, or enjoying cooking or sewing, or having an opinion about what color goes on the wall. The compartmentalized preferences are different for everyone. Until they've reached self-acceptance, CDers don't want anyone (including themselves) to come close to guessing who they really are. I think that (many?) CDers have built such a thick wall around their feminine desires that they grow up to actually believe they are different people when they're dressed. How many members here refer to their femme personas in the third person? How many say they have different interests when they're dressed, such as loving to do housework, or enjoying different music, or knitting, or being more outgoing? These CDers are not integrated because they've never given themselves permission in guy mode to follow interests that might have gotten them creamed when they were younger, had their peers had any inkling about the CDing desires. So is it a surprise that they also compartmentalize sexual fantasy?

Interesting observation. If I accept your premise, then I wonder why a person could be comfortable with being a CD but not comfortable with being gay? It's my opinion that the gay community has achieved a level of acceptance and tolerance in, western culture, that the CD community has not. I'm not trying to make an argument that coming out as gay is easier than coming out as a CD, but I wonder if some CDs think, "Well I may be a CD, but at least I'm not gay."

I also wonder what, for many CD's was their first impulse, homoerotic feelings or the desire to crossdress? Does one lead to the other? I know its sort of a chicken/egg argument as to what came first and maybe a little off topic.

In my case, I went to an all boys school until I was 14 years old. Before puberty, I remember having some homoerotic feelings, but then I was around nothing but boys all day. After puberty, no desires. I had opportunities when I was in young adulthood, but to this day I still have no desire to be with a man, dressed or not dressed. So to respond to SweatPea, I agree, either you are or you aren't, otherwise you're in denial or confused.

monalisa

01-15-2012, 11:42 AM

I think it may only be natural to fantasize about men when you dress and pretend to be a woman and then wonder what it would be like to be a total woman. Often when we start dressing it is about fantasies and then it moves beyond that for some and for others it doesn't. I do think when I started it was the thrill of wearing feminine clothing and then it became a stress escape and eventually
I reached the point where women's clothing feels and looks so much better than men's. I feel sexy when dressed even if I am not. It's all in the mind and each person's mind is different. Some act on their fantasies and many do not. I don't see why people have to be categorized as straight, gay, bi or whatever. People just should do what they want and feel and not be judged by anyone except themselves.

ReineD

01-15-2012, 11:51 AM

Coming out to the world is optional as a CD, but coming out to yourself [as gay or bi] is not.

This needs emphasizing!

But I'd take it one step further to say, at least be honest with your SOs too. They deserve to know. Many GGs sense there are barriers when their husbands harbor secret fantasies of being with men, and the GGs need to know they can trust their instincts are they are not imagining things. When the truth is out, then everyone has the opportunity to make appropriate decisions for themselves and their futures, even though the decisions may hurt in the short run.

If you are sexually fluid than good for you, it's a blast and life is short, but don't freak out the straights by saying your clothes are somehow magic. All that does is make them think that ALL Cd'rs are subject to the gay making clothes. That ANY man will be gay if he puts on a dress. I know THAT ain't true.

How true!

Interesting observation. If I accept your premise, then I wonder why a person could be comfortable with being a CD but not comfortable with being gay?

I don't know why homophobia is rampant. I don't experience it, but then I'm not a guy. Maybe some members here can enlighten us.

I also wonder what, for many CD's was their first impulse, homoerotic feelings or the desire to crossdress? Does one lead to the other? I know its sort of a chicken/egg argument as to what came first and maybe a little off topic.

This is a great question and it's not off topic. It's all tied into the psychology of magical, gay-making clothes, as Melissa aptly puts it.

My opinion: if the CDing is autogynephilic, then it came first and the homoerotic fantasies serve to heighten the experience. And if the autogynephilia is severe enough, I believe an individual might well convince himself that he does prefer sex with men. The thing is, an autogynephilic's true sexual preference, the thing that sends him to the moon is the image of himself as a woman more than being with a woman or a man, and even though the act of having sex with a guy (vs. a girl) may better fit in with his inner image, he does rob himself of knowing the true highs of a sexual experience with someone whom we are intimately, emotionally connected to. You know ... the difference between making love vs. having sex.

If there is an element of gender identity involved (and no matter what anyone says, I think that opposite-sex attraction can be tied to gender identity, at least it is for the 90% cis population), then I'm guessing the sexual attraction, even if it is suppressed, and the need to express other than birth gender are both there from the beginning.

Kali

01-15-2012, 11:57 AM

This isn't just a crossdresser thing; I have profiles, both as my femme self and as a couple with my wife (with me listed as her TG/male partner), on various alternative lifestyle sites. They all make it clear that I am male.

99.999% of the unsolicited emails I get from those sites are from "straight" men who want to do things to me.

Lots of self-delusion out there.

christina s

01-15-2012, 12:35 PM

I admit , I'm at least bi curious but the idea of being with a man outside of being dressed is completely unappealing to me . Maybe it's just a fetish thing ,who knows ? Sexuality is a tricky thing.

sherri

01-15-2012, 12:39 PM

It's really simple, actually. Some of us are just sexual, with no overriding sense of being gay or hetero or bi or whatever. Someone mentioned being sexually fluid, and I guess that comes close to characterizing the sexuality I feel and desire to express. GGs will always be my first love and strongest sexual attraction, but I also have a very strong feminine streak (and all that goes with it) myself, so the lines are very blurry. (In fact, I really don't see or feel the lines at all.) I can be the sexual aggressor is ways normally associated with males of the species, but I also respond passionately to aggression from either gender that taps into my feminine psyche, and at the risk of being indelicate, in that role I find both genders sexually desirable.

But here is one fundamental difference between me and a gay guy: I do not and cannot relate to being desirable as a man to another man. In other words, gays tend to be attracted to each other because of the shared masculinity, but that dynamic isn't me at all. Whether a guy is attracted to me because of or in spite of my femininity, that's the way it's gonna be or we might as well get out the dominoes.

When it comes to GGs, however, I seem able to respond and function with either gender association ... as long as she's not expecting some super macho hunk. We have all had so much social conditioning it's difficult for some people to get past the gender cubbyholes, but for me, I just flat don't understand why it's so difficult to understand a you-know-what in a skirt. To me, it's the most natural thing in the world, an iconic expression of the gender-bender that I am.

moondog

01-15-2012, 01:17 PM

Hi SweetPea,

If you think it's mind boggling try wearing my boxer shorts. (Sorry if that sounds mean, it isn't meant to be and hopefully you'll understand more as you read this post)

A fantasy is just that. I think too many people try reading far too much into fantasies. I also think too many people are attempting to define sexual attraction and identity with overly simplistic terms.

I am a sraight male. Which is to say I continue considering myself a straight male but am coming to the realisation that I am far more complex than that one, simple, word...straight...can define me. Married 17 years and been with her for 20 years, although our marriage is failing because of reasons far more complex than why I am a member of this forum. Never had any attraction to, nor sexual experiences with, men. I admit to having a fantasy several years ago, and shared this with my wife and she enjoyed it too, where my wife would bring a man home and teach me how to orally pleasure him. As I said, a simple fantasy and nothing more.

Over the last year my sexual attraction has become fluid. When dressed as male I am attracted to females. While dressed as female I am attracted to males. I know it's not the "magic clothes" but rather something inside of me that causes the divergent sexual attractions. I have never acted upon this attraction while dressed. My wife does not know any of this.

I'm scared.

I'm confused.

I'm in therepy.

I don't know who the f--k I am.

Straight...bi...gay are all labels failing to define me.

I'm so deep in the closet if I take one more step back I'll be in Narnia.

I hope this helps you even a little bit.

Julogden

01-15-2012, 01:26 PM

I totally agree, SweetPea. Lots of CD's can't bring themselves to accept that they are bisexual, sort of self-homophobic. From my experiences over many years of meeting a ton of people in support groups and the TG social scene, my opinion is that most MTF girls are at least potentially bisexual. Some are totally straight, but most aren't, IMO.

Carol

Rachel Flowers

01-15-2012, 01:39 PM

I believe this is an artificial question. To say "either a man is straight or not" presumes there is such a thing as straight adn then imposes a polarised dichotomy on that concept. I think straight is a fiction created by our over-religiously-dominated society. Sexual preference is on a sliding scale, just as gender identity is on a sliding scale. That's the easy bit. Here's the hard bit: each of us is not a point on the scale, but a range. Someone who's never had any sexual experiences with a person of the same sex can adequately label themselves as straight (it's just a label, it means nothing) even if they have had homoerotic fantasies, while another in exactly the same boat can label themselves as bi- or pan- or whatever they like.

We're supposed to be shrugging off the slavery of labels in this forum, aren't we?

SweetPea_GG

01-15-2012, 01:43 PM

I think the area which I know confuses me the most is when some say "when I drab I am attracted to females but when I'm dress I am attracted to males". Like one one said earlier "magical clothes". I would like a set of magical clothes please. Probably a maid uniform so I will want to clean me house and enjoy doing it :)

Either you are attracted to men or you arnt. Clothes or no clothes. It's not like a gay or even bi person goes "ok today I'm wearing brown shoes so I'm attracted to just women today and men just turn me off"

Bi curious is a good word to be used. Cause it's different from bi since pol who define themselves as bi know that they enjoy both genders as to bi curious they are unsure if they will enjoy it or not but they entertain the idea.

Then what gets me is the ppl who talk about these "fantasies" but who are in relationships and say "I want to be with a man BUT I'm married " or "but my wife doesn't know. The Internet is a funny thing cause it does not keep your secrets no matter how careful you try to be.. The day could come that your wife just happens to stumble upon the posts and notices you and she ends up devistated. But it's all good cause you only want to be with men when dressed which will ease her mind...

I know there are questions that a lot get asked when they tell friends or loved ones they are a CDer. A couple are "do u want to be a woman now?". And the other "are you gay?". Yet a lot when replying to posts will say "make sure you let them know your not gay and not dll CDer are gay" (which is true not all CDer are gay). But how do we just jump to that conclusion about someone else when quite a select few on here talk about being with men.. Just curious and this was all jmo and no hard feelings Pls from my statements.

Miranda-E

01-15-2012, 02:16 PM

moondog

01-15-2012, 02:54 PM

whowhatwhen

01-15-2012, 03:05 PM

It may just be that growing up in a black and white world you end up forced to wrap your own feelings around society's standard and they end up being distorted.
Perhaps the only thing anyone can do is be honest with your SO about your feelings from the start.

If you want to pick apart a mind distorted by repression I'll offer mine.

I consider myself bisexual.
My attraction to males is 99% in the dream world where 99% of my dreams are me with men.
In the awake world I find very few men attractive, but more women catch my eye.

But that has nothing to do with CD at all, thinking about getting dressed does give a physical reaction but that's not why I'm interested in it.
Maybe people are being forced into thinking they have to be linked, or maybe the act loosens their inhibitions and allows them to find males physically attractive.

- Broken brain #1,566,2104 signing out

Shananigans

01-15-2012, 03:18 PM

I'm bi 24/7, 365. If there had been an on/off switch growing up, I would have switched it off. But, there's not one.

It honestly sounds like people that get dressed up like women and then are attracted to men (and, only attracted to men when dressed like a woman) are ruled by their own heterosexual biases. This bias would be that women are passive and submissive, and they need a big, strong man to for sexual encounters.

If you have noticed, men in these fantasies are almost like another accessory to the CD. "I got mah heels, mah purse, and mah big, strong man." It's like another accessory to a justification of finally being a woman. And, part of the fulfilling their own checklists for what is feminine and what is not is their own heterosexual bias that women should be with men. Even the bias of women being passive and men being in control takes into play. Come on, how many "sissies" and everything else are on this site? How many gladly play the passive role because they think it is what a woman should be and how she should act?

There's your sign.

JulieK1980

01-15-2012, 03:26 PM

But that has nothing to do with CD at all, thinking about getting dressed does give a physical reaction but that's not why I'm interested in it.
Maybe people are being forced into thinking they have to be linked, or maybe the act loosens their inhibitions and allows them to find males physically attractive.

- Broken brain #1,566,2104 signing out

For a broken brain, you sure nailed it on the head.

whowhatwhen

01-15-2012, 03:31 PM

O_O
That does make sense now that I think about it but I would think that some males are naturally passive and a CD crossover might not be so rare.

Jenniferathome

01-15-2012, 03:36 PM

KellyJameson

01-15-2012, 04:03 PM

Perhaps sex is nothing more than what you give yourself permission to experience.

Alice_cl

01-15-2012, 04:48 PM

Similarly several guys who hax insertive sex with crossdressers or transvestite do no consider themselves, gay, neither.
Placing strong definitions makes stereotypes. And there are few people that truly fit them.

Will someone please explain to me how some (and I stress "some" and not all..and this question also does not relate to my life or relationship). But how some CDs can say they are straight but then talk about how when they are dressed they want to be with men or they just have fantasies about being with men. How can one still call themselves straight? It would be like me saying "oh I'm straight BUT I would like to be with another female OR I have fantasies about being with women and it turns me on" etc (and no sorry that was just a example lol)

It's just really mind boggling to me! Either your straight with no interest in the same sex or bi or gay. There really isn't a on or off switch to it.

whowhatwhen

01-15-2012, 05:20 PM

"Gay" being a negative thing certainly seems to cause a lot of issues as bisexuals, homosexuals or curious straights grow up and question their own feelings.
The only solution is parents being more accepting and people being more educated, which unfortunately is being fought against tooth and nail.

DeniseNJ

01-15-2012, 05:23 PM

Our minds are complex, Not once have I ever been turned on by looking a a guy, nor would I ever kiss a guy, guys don't do it for me. I don't see what women see in some guys, Sure there are some good looking guys out there but if a visual satisfaction of seeing a man gets a Crossdresser excited then he/she might be gay. I do have a thing for a pretty passable CD but it is the illusion of the female that alures me. I do have fantacies like some others that envolved satisfying someone, will I act on them I don't know but all I know is I would have to be Denise to act on those fantacies

Sally24

01-15-2012, 05:46 PM

......or they just have fantasies about being with men. How can one still call themselves straight? Either your straight with no interest in the same sex or bi or gay. There really isn't a on or off switch to it.

My take on it is that you're not truly straight if you get turned on by someone of your own gender...

Men who have other than hetero desires may not be gay, but they sure as hell ain't straight either.

Either you are attracted to men or you aren't. Clothes or no clothes.

I know there are questions that a lot get asked when they tell friends or loved ones they are a CDer.Yet a lot when replying to posts will say "make sure you let them know your not gay and not all CDer are gay"....But how do we just jump to that conclusion about someone else when quite a select few on here talk about being with men..

For people who are familiar with alternate lives, these sure are some mainstream thoughts! Just as gender sure as hell is not just male or female, sexuality is certainly not just hetero/gay/bi/lesbian. And if we're talking fantasy life than bring anything on!! I think the key word here is "talk". There are only a small number on here that don't identify as TS that have actually taken that step of physically being with someone of the same sex. Talking and fantasizing about something isn't anything like moving to the doing stage. I'll admit that I am in that category with different female fantasies. In some I am crossdressed and in others I have transitioned. I take the female sexual role in these. Admittedly I also frequently am also involved with females in these same fantasies. The gender scale is not really binary and the sexual scale should be looked at the same way. The reason you can't understand it may be that you are trying to box it into these small categories instead of looking at it for what it is.
.
.
.

Wait, do I understand this, if you fantasize about sex with a man, you are gay? Does that mean if I fantasize about being rich, that will make me a millionaire? Now if you act on that fantasy, well maybe you have a point, but fantasy is just that, even if it is homo erotic.
:lol2:
Loved that Tina!! and I agree.

Kate Simmons

01-15-2012, 05:51 PM

I think a lot of it has to do with the premise notion that women are supposed to be submissive, which is total hogwash. Being honest with yourself and your feelings seems to be one of the hardest things for most CD's.:battingeyelashes::)

Kristy_K

01-15-2012, 05:57 PM

They lie!! What Crossdressers do best! Just ask my wife!

Cute..... LOL .

Sophiewouldbenice

01-15-2012, 06:35 PM

Probably life is a journey of self-finding. I am one of those you said or believed to be straight and now starting to questing it. But it is hard to say, if it is just like getting the attention or trying to be loved and at some point ignoring sexual preferances - if you figure out men are more accepting than women to a crossdresser, well maybe it coulb become worth a try, besides I did not go so far, but I know, that dancing with a leading man can be fun, because your are fitting more in the role of the woman you wanna be or you wanna be partime or feel like or what ever. Besides you do not compete in femininity with a man ;) - so for me, there is accutally one the reason of havig childs one day, which prevents me of giving men a chance and yes I am afraid of getting attracted to men, too.

CINDYO

01-15-2012, 07:26 PM

fair enough Schatten
unless the person is married, then the whole explore ane experiment thing becomes infidelity!! a big no! no! if a person is commited and honourable.

AmandaM

01-15-2012, 07:34 PM

They are gay/bi but do not want to admit it so they are using the appearance as a woman as an excuse to act as a woman in a relationship. Just denial. Plain and simple. Straight men will never, never, never, want to be romantically or sexually involved with another man.

I disagree. I have had bi fantasies. I don't fantasize about holding hands with a man, going on dates, looking into his eyes. Even when dressed, those thoughts creep me out. I have fantasized about the sex act though. With a nameless, faceless male so to speak, and me as a woman. I am never attracted to men, dressed or not. I am always attracted to women. I would think that if I was bi or gay, I would be "attracted" to men in all ways, not just a sex act. And yes, I've tried gay sex, it didn't do anything for me. It was a huge letdown. So I know I 'm not gay. And I suspect I'm not really bi either. I think I'm more in the "man as accessory" crowd.

elizabethamy

01-15-2012, 07:39 PM

If you haven't read Sandra Samons' "When the Opposite Sex Isn't," it might provide some insight here. While it's been a "given" assertion that crossdressers are primarily heterosexual, Samons shows that hormones and GRS can and do (in some but by no means all cases) transform one's sexual orientation.

busker

01-15-2012, 09:14 PM

Either your straight with no interest in the same sex or bi or gay. There really isn't a on or off switch to it.

The undies defense I think is maybe like the "twinkies" defense. It allows one to blame their actions on something seemingly out of their personal control. " I'm dressed as a women, so therefore I can act as a women, and that includes the fantasies of having sexual encounters with males and/or having sex for real.

I also think that , at least in the West, women get more leniency in their behaviour than men, so it might be subconsciously applied by CDers that "as women" their fantasies are more acceptable than they would be in the harsh light of day dressed and presenting as a male. Women have a whole range of acceptable dress, while men are pretty much confined to a rather limited palette of choices. That some of us males take a shine to women's clothing may be an attempt to break out of the rigid pattern, it may be that we are "bathed in female chemicals at birth" or some other explanation. IDK!
I have no interest in men, no female voice, no mannerisms. that I can cook , sew, and do household chores does not make me a woman, dressed or otherwise, I learned to do things at home by a mother that was a typical homemaker of her generation.

I, like some others here, have breasts (gynecomastia) and one would think that those of us who do, would be out there flaunting what we have to attract a man, but so far I hear nothing of the sort. It puts us closer to being "women" than stuffing a bra. The ultimate accessory to let us really "fanatasize". But there is nothing.
So I think that you are right in that there is no switch--we are either straight or not straight.
It would be interesting to hear from any "confirmed batchelor -mtf cd or bachelorette -ftm cd/ts" about fantasies.

Badtranny

01-15-2012, 09:19 PM

It's very interesting that so many are using the sexual binary argument and decrying the use of labels as if we (my side of the argument) are the ones doing the labeling. We are not. We are actually trying to liberate the closeted from the label of "straight". I am not insisting that a CD who desires sex with a man is gay. I'm merely taking issue with the use of the word straight to describe them. Don't wanna label yourself? Great. Don't swing into a thread proclaiming your straightness, then close with "unless I'm Anita" or whoever.

Sally quoted me and others and proceeded to educate us on how little fantasies mean to the real world or sexuality and frankly I couldn't agree more. I never said or meant to infer that fantasies about anything made you anything. My exact quote from Sally's rebuttal was "Men who have other than hetero desires may not be gay, but they sure as hell ain't straight either". The key word is DESIRE. A fantasy is one thing but a desire is something different. Again, the act of desiring does NOT make you gay, but please be honest with yourself, it doesn't make you straight. I'm talking about recurring desire as well. Not recurring fantasy or an out of the blue instance. Shoot I don't even believe that gay SEX makes you gay. If you're inclined to experiment and it isn't your thing than I would never argue that you were gay UNLESS you had frequent desire that you just couldn't reconcile. You see DESIRE is the trick here. What you want to do, but don't for some reason. If you desire men on any level but don't explore it because you're married than good for you. BUT you're only "straight" because of circumstances then right? Which is still totally fine as long as you can be honest with yourself.

You know, ...I read some of these posts and I could have written them myself a few years ago. I was socialized in a hyper masculine environment as well and my "gay" feelings are as old as my adolescence. I desired a "faceless" man since my first erection and for many years (after I learned to rationalize things), I thought that my attraction to men was purely sexual. I had and still do have an emotional attraction to women, but when I was feeling frisky I would always desire a masculine companion. I would always say things to myself like, I only want men when I'm already aroused, or I don't find men attractive they're gross. This is the stuff I needed. I needed it to keep myself clinging to the pathetic fantasy that I was hetero. I never cross dressed because I already had my hands full with my full blown case of denial.

Obviously things have changed for me. I finally found the strength to accept I was gay (or so I thought) which eventually led me to my sublimated gender issue which eventually led me to my current path of transition. The truth is I find men to be VERY attractive. I ran into a guy at the gas station Friday afternoon who had the most beautiful eyes. He was asking me about my FJ (dudes LOVE my little truck) and telling me about his and I could barely stop noticing how cute and rugged he was at the same time. If I wouldn't have been in Bakersfield I would have flirted with him, but instead we just small talked and that was it. This is a freedom I could have never even dreamed about when I was a closet queen. I would have never let myself even notice much less enjoy an innocent encounter with a nice guy. I don't want labels for you, I want freedom and I want peace. These things are impossible without acceptance and it has to start with yourself.

sara.s

01-15-2012, 09:26 PM

They lie!! What Crossdressers do best! Just ask my wife!
I agree. Every comment I make is a lie. :)

Lucy_Bella

01-15-2012, 09:33 PM

I don't want labels for you, I want freedom and I want peace. These things are impossible without acceptance and it has to start with yourself.

It's not us who ask for labels , it's our actions.. In a nice way :) ..Are you suggesting that we don't need labeled as an individual but be labeled as a whole ..? Either way isn't that being labeled? If Society is going to judge me by my actions I would like the correct label so I don't have to defend my actions..

Julie Hall

01-15-2012, 09:50 PM

In my opinion, those that want to be with a man only when presenting female are either: 1. strictly using fantasy and are curious about homosexual experiences - possibly unsure of their sexuality or 2. are just kidding themselves, they are bi or gay and don't want to admit it. Probably due to the normally homophobic society. There are probably those in the middle of my scenarios, somehow curious and consciously refuse to admit their feelings and desires.

In my case, I don't believe I am gay - but will admit I don't really know. I have been on this course for a very short time and have admitted I hate men, especially myself. When or if I ever overcome my self hatred, perhaps I will find I am gay as I said, I don't know. We'll see.

Badtranny

01-15-2012, 09:52 PM

It's not us who ask for labels , it's our actions.. In a nice way :) ..Are you suggesting that we don't need labeled as an individual but be labeled as a whole ..? Either way isn't that being labeled? If Society is going to judge me by my actions I would like the correct label so I don't have to defend my actions..

I'm not trying to label anyone Lucy. When someone proclaims themselves to be straight they are labeling themselves. But you can't claim the label of straight while talking about desires that are other than straight. So yes, I agree with you, drop the label. ;-)

BLUE ORCHID

01-15-2012, 09:56 PM

Hi SP, There Straight untill they Bend Then they are Gay or BI.

Lucy_Bella

01-15-2012, 09:59 PM

I'm not trying to label anyone Lucy. When someone proclaims themselves to be straight they are labeling themselves. But you can't claim the label of straight while talking about desires that are other than straight. So yes, I agree with you, drop the label. ;-)

Yes I agree, Labels are being miss represented and abused especially in this Forum ( maybe that's why so many would rather not have any ).. I feel for the O.P. because in a sense, isn't she asking for verification in a label?

Debglam

01-15-2012, 10:10 PM

What a fascinating thread! So many good posts I barely know where to start quoting!

Reine & Melissa, I think you too really nailed it. I think of the ”numbers” we do on ourselves and how many aspects of our lives are negatively affected by repression and trying to play the roles forced upon us. Gay, straight, bi, bi-curious, whatever. Does/should it matter to anyone else but our partner (monogamist IS the one label I’ll own)? Be who you are.

Shananigans

01-15-2012, 10:40 PM

I agree, Deb. I facepalm when I see married men saying that they're are interested in men when they are dressed as a woman. I think people should have their fantasies, but remain faithful if they are in a committed relationship.

Or, Hell, have your wife take on the male role while you dress up like a girl. I do ... my SO is not fond of it, but I totally am. Getting more than you bargained for and all of that jazz.

Anyway, there are ways to live out the role of being a passive woman in the bedroom without creeping online or straying in your relationship. It has certainly helped me embrace being bisexual and my SO satisfy his bi-curious fantasies.

I wish people had more of an imagination in their sex lives.

DanaR

01-15-2012, 10:54 PM

Schatten Lupus

01-15-2012, 10:56 PM

I'm confused, while I'm fantasizing about being a girl and being with a girl, does that make make me a lesbian?
Nope. It just means you have an active imagination. ;)
But that is also if you worry about labels of sexuality.

Jamsey

01-15-2012, 11:03 PM

Very interesting comments...I have to admit I have had some fantasies, and had opportunites, both dressed and not dressed, but I have not made the next step. For me to break through my barriers it would take someone awful special, patient and understanding. Just admitting to myself that I am a crossdresser and accepting myself as such was an enormous step for me. But I have another reason for not following through and having a sexual relationship with a man, and to me it is a very important reason. I am a blood donor, and have been since 1967, when a sergeant came through our tent in Viet Nam about 2 or 3 in the morning, kicked my bunk and said 'GET UP, We need your blood'. O neg, a very popular blood type. I still give about 4 times a year. Sex with a man, no matter how unfair the policy is, will prohibit you from giving blood. Since, psychologically I still feel the need to give and I'm still physically able to give, I avoid sex with a man.
So, until that 'awful special' man, (interesting choice of words there, could pshcyoanalyze that.) appears, or they change the policy, or I can no longer give, I will keep it a fantasy. Wierd, don't know why I wrote this.

NathalieX66

01-15-2012, 11:05 PM

Not attracted to guys. never was/never will be. Those who are, good for you, peace& love darlings....be happy!
Yes, I dress a a girl.

Vickie_CDTV

01-15-2012, 11:07 PM

April_Ligeia

01-15-2012, 11:07 PM

This is an interesting thread. It is interesting how many crossdressers feel the need to assert just how straight they are. I wonder what the correlation is between strongly asserting that one is straight and the frequency of one's gay fantasies?

DebbieL

01-15-2012, 11:11 PM

Will someone please explain to me how some (and I stress "some" and not all..and this question also does not relate to my life or relationship). But how some CDs can say they are straight but then talk about how when they are dressed they want to be with men or they just have fantasies about being with men. How can one still call themselves straight?

Keep in mind that transgendered boys often realize they want to be girls when they are very young, but almost as soon as they are aware that there is a difference, and that they want to be a girl, there is extreme pressure, including verbal harassment, violence, terror, torture, physical abuse, and even sexual abuse - all under the direct supervision of teachers, gym teachers, and athletic coaches - starting as young as SIX YEARS OLD.

When I was playing with the girls and enjoying it, I was just one of the girls, but when I was at a girls house and we traded clothes, - me and 4 other girls, the girl's mom saw me in her daughter's dress and had a fit. She told me to get dressed, threatened to beat me severely if I ever came back, and called all of the other moms to make sure that their daughters didn't play with me either.

The next monday, at school, the girls wouldn't play with me, so I tried to play with the boys. The literally started to STONE me, throwing rocks about the size of golf-balls at my head. One finally hit me in the eye and I ended up in the nurses office.

Over the next 4 years, I had spinal injuries, nearly died of chigella, was beaten with sticks, pipes, and chains, often until I was bloody. Boys always wanted to fight me - because they knew they could win. I had bloody noses, scars in both eyes, arms, and back.

There is really only one way to survive, and that is to split yourselves into two sides. You create a public facade, almost entirely phony, a "normal" boy, who has no desire to be a girl, no desire to have sex with anyone - male or female, or only wants sex with very feminine women, and in every other way, try to be as clean-cut as possible. The "front" may go to church, be an outstanding student, and may even be unusually nice.

Then there is the other self - the secret self, that you may tell NO ONE about. She is your "true self" - and she wants to be seduced, wooed, and be lured into mad passionate love-making. The imaginary partner may be a woman, but in every way, the rest of the fantasy is of being seduced by a partner who would take the male role - even if she's wearing a beautiful satin dress, silk stockings, and high heels. There are often fantasies of female domination, even being raped by women.

The fantasies are rarely of men, because our experience of males is as tormentors. The boys were the ones who humiliated us verbally, beat us physically, tortured us, and terrorized us. It's not surprising that we have a hard time having fantasies of sex with men.

But for those who are lucky enough to actually get the courage to "go public" with our sexual identity, they often find the support in the gay community, from men who, as boys, experienced the same kinds of humiliation, torture, and terror, and can be very compassionate, and affectionate.

We also find that the really attractive feminine women, are attracted to the alpha males. We find that we are approached by women who are more masculine - tom-boys, and who tend to dress and act a bit more masculine.

When we actually begin to experience being seduced as our "true selves" - being dressed and feminine, a change occurs.

In our male mode, we may seem asexual, unresponsive, awkward, self-conscious. We often avoid intimacy. At best, we focus on pleasing our partners, with very little attention on letting them please us. This is because true intimacy is not possible - unless we are able to be our true selves, which includes the dress.

But when we put on the dress, and go out in public, something interesting happens.

Woman aren't attracted, in fact many even try to avoid us. However, in the right environments, there are a number of bisexual men who find us very appealing indeed. They are more than willing to treat us the way we have wanted to be treated all these years. They are willing to woo us, seduce us, caress us, and make love to us - in our feminine lingerie, letting us look and feel feminine, maintaining the illusion for ourselves.

Some may even want to help us make the transition - if we are ready.

The tragedy is that this sometimes happens AFTER we have made commitments to wives, children, jobs, community, and public positions. It's no longer practical to just disappear and become our "true selves".

For wives who have always found us a bit aloof, because they didn't know about the dressing, or when they found out, couldn't accept it. What they didn't understand was that there was a very important part of our personality which could ONLY be accessed through our feminine side. Our capacity to love, to be intimate, to be vulnerable, to be emotional, to be loved, was only available in the part of our personality we had to hide for a decade or two.

In the ideal word, many of us would love it if our wives could act more like men, could seduce us, woo us, sweep us away, and make mad passionate love to us, forcefully and intensely. We'd love it if the lovemaking didn't stop with that first orgasm, the wet one, but would continue for multiple climaxes - until we are the ones quivering like jello in total bliss.

And then, the next night, we'd like to return the favor - to our wonderful lovers.

If the person who taps that desire, and actually gives us some version of that fantasy happens to be a man, it's highly unlikely that we would want to say "no I never want to do that again". The partner might be a masculine woman, with a baritone voice, 30 or 50 lbs overweight, and strong muscular legs and big arms - and we'd be their slave for life if they asked us. The partner might be a feminine woman, who has learned the art of seduction, is bisexual, and loves making love to women as well as men, and finds in us the best of both - again, we would give ourselves completely to this women.

Ironically, the woman we would want this with - more than anything else in the world, would be our own wives. Many of us fantasize about our wives forcing us to wear the clothes, dressing us up, making us act feminine, and then seducing us slowly. There are many many many stories and fantasies of women who force-feminize their husbands - even seducing them anally and chastising them - giving them access to multiple orgasms. And they are very popular among transgendered men.

Keep in mind that these men were FORCED to behave as men, and for many, having similar persuasion to be able to be their true selves - would be the ultimate fantasy. It would allow them to break through all of the shame, guilt, repression, fear, doubt, terror, and conditioning imposed from age six to age sixteen.

Shananigans

01-15-2012, 11:12 PM

I'm confused, while I'm fantasizing about being a girl and being with a girl, does that make make me a lesbian?

I just saw this because of the post above. I think if you are seeing yourself as a woman and you are with another woman, it would be a lesbian encounter.

I would consider Cami (my SO) and I to be lesbians. If we are out presenting ourselves as two female lovers, people will perceive us as lesbians. Last time I checked, no one looks up your skirt to question if there are any loopholes to this definition.

But, this is also because I see gender as somewhat seperate from anatomical sex and sexuality. I mean, if I was with a transsexual woman, would people still say this is a heterosexual relationship because she was born a man? No, I think not. And, IMO, people that say I am still technically with a man are wrong.

So, yes, if you feel like a woman and are presenting as a woman and are intimate with another woman, you are a lesbian.

xcdmargo

01-15-2012, 11:21 PM

Mine is very simple. When I am dressed I enjoy being with guys and am attracted to them. However when I am not dressed I have absolutely no interest nor am I attracted to men. I have no idea what my label would be or if there is one. But that's the way I am and I'm pretty content with it. I do so love being a girl in every way :)

margo

whowhatwhen

01-15-2012, 11:23 PM

That's interesting, one could argue that you're bi since you're still attracted to both sexes even if the circumstances change.
Not that calling yourself bi is a get out of jail free card either since that has an entirely different set of luggage.

Badtranny

01-15-2012, 11:28 PM

DebbieL, that was spoken by a fellow traveler. This is why we are sisters.
I didn't identify with everything you said, but enough of it to make me choke up a little.

So we may not all be from the same municipality, but many of us are from the same place.
Did anybody notice that bras and panties weren't mentioned at all? It's posts like this one that keep me coming back every day. This is the fabric of our shared existence and the only fabric that matters to me here.

Shananigans

01-15-2012, 11:28 PM

This is a Great thread...I'm learning a lot, actually.

Debbie, so much of me wants to agree with you...your story is heart-breaking and insightful. However, halfway into it, the biggest part of me just wants to tell you to meet more women.

Do I look like I am masculine, 30-50 pounds overweight, and have a baritone voice??????

I consider myself pretty attractive and I am not always attracted to these "alpha males" that you speak of. I also feel that I am better than ANY genetic male at wooing my SO and treating her like a woman because I KNOW how a woman wants to be treated and taken.

And, believe me...women like me are not rare. I grew up repressing a need to be in a dominant role/be the seducer/the aggressor. I had a need for things sexually that are masculine. But, I hid that sh*t deep, deep down because even women are told that what they want or need is wrong. Am I FTM TS? No, I'm just a little liberated and flexible. But, I'd never have found this if I had not met my SO, who seems to understand my desires completely.

Does this make me a big, fat, flannel-wearing lesbian? No, thank you. I can easily do it all in pumps and a push-up bra better than any genetic male.

Expand your horizons...or, freak it up with your wife. It wasn't until after a lot of beer and a lot of crying that I opened it all up to my SO.

Keep in mind that transgendered boys often realize they want to be girls when they are very young, but almost as soon as they are aware that there is a difference, and that they want to be a girl, there is extreme pressure, including verbal harassment, violence, terror, torture, physical abuse, and even sexual abuse - all under the direct supervision of teachers, gym teachers, and athletic coaches - starting as young as SIX YEARS OLD.

When I was playing with the girls and enjoying it, I was just one of the girls, but when I was at a girls house and we traded clothes, - me and 4 other girls, the girl's mom saw me in her daughter's dress and had a fit. She told me to get dressed, threatened to beat me severely if I ever came back, and called all of the other moms to make sure that their daughters didn't play with me either.

The next monday, at school, the girls wouldn't play with me, so I tried to play with the boys. The literally started to STONE me, throwing rocks about the size of golf-balls at my head. One finally hit me in the eye and I ended up in the nurses office.

Over the next 4 years, I had spinal injuries, nearly died of chigella, was beaten with sticks, pipes, and chains, often until I was bloody. Boys always wanted to fight me - because they knew they could win. I had bloody noses, scars in both eyes, arms, and back.

There is really only one way to survive, and that is to split yourselves into two sides. You create a public facade, almost entirely phony, a "normal" boy, who has no desire to be a girl, no desire to have sex with anyone - male or female, or only wants sex with very feminine women, and in every other way, try to be as clean-cut as possible. The "front" may go to church, be an outstanding student, and may even be unusually nice.

Then there is the other self - the secret self, that you may tell NO ONE about. She is your "true self" - and she wants to be seduced, wooed, and be lured into mad passionate love-making. The imaginary partner may be a woman, but in every way, the rest of the fantasy is of being seduced by a partner who would take the male role - even if she's wearing a beautiful satin dress, silk stockings, and high heels. There are often fantasies of female domination, even being raped by women.

The fantasies are rarely of men, because our experience of males is as tormentors. The boys were the ones who humiliated us verbally, beat us physically, tortured us, and terrorized us. It's not surprising that we have a hard time having fantasies of sex with men.

But for those who are lucky enough to actually get the courage to "go public" with our sexual identity, they often find the support in the gay community, from men who, as boys, experienced the same kinds of humiliation, torture, and terror, and can be very compassionate, and affectionate.

We also find that the really attractive feminine women, are attracted to the alpha males. We find that we are approached by women who are more masculine - tom-boys, and who tend to dress and act a bit more masculine.

When we actually begin to experience being seduced as our "true selves" - being dressed and feminine, a change occurs.

In our male mode, we may seem asexual, unresponsive, awkward, self-conscious. We often avoid intimacy. At best, we focus on pleasing our partners, with very little attention on letting them please us. This is because true intimacy is not possible - unless we are able to be our true selves, which includes the dress.

But when we put on the dress, and go out in public, something interesting happens.

Woman aren't attracted, in fact many even try to avoid us. However, in the right environments, there are a number of bisexual men who find us very appealing indeed. They are more than willing to treat us the way we have wanted to be treated all these years. They are willing to woo us, seduce us, caress us, and make love to us - in our feminine lingerie, letting us look and feel feminine, maintaining the illusion for ourselves.

Some may even want to help us make the transition - if we are ready.

The tragedy is that this sometimes happens AFTER we have made commitments to wives, children, jobs, community, and public positions. It's no longer practical to just disappear and become our "true selves".

For wives who have always found us a bit aloof, because they didn't know about the dressing, or when they found out, couldn't accept it. What they didn't understand was that there was a very important part of our personality which could ONLY be accessed through our feminine side. Our capacity to love, to be intimate, to be vulnerable, to be emotional, to be loved, was only available in the part of our personality we had to hide for a decade or two.

In the ideal word, many of us would love it if our wives could act more like men, could seduce us, woo us, sweep us away, and make mad passionate love to us, forcefully and intensely. We'd love it if the lovemaking didn't stop with that first orgasm, the wet one, but would continue for multiple climaxes - until we are the ones quivering like jello in total bliss.

And then, the next night, we'd like to return the favor - to our wonderful lovers.

If the person who taps that desire, and actually gives us some version of that fantasy happens to be a man, it's highly unlikely that we would want to say "no I never want to do that again". The partner might be a masculine woman, with a baritone voice, 30 or 50 lbs overweight, and strong muscular legs and big arms - and we'd be their slave for life if they asked us. The partner might be a feminine woman, who has learned the art of seduction, is bisexual, and loves making love to women as well as men, and finds in us the best of both - again, we would give ourselves completely to this women.

Ironically, the woman we would want this with - more than anything else in the world, would be our own wives. Many of us fantasize about our wives forcing us to wear the clothes, dressing us up, making us act feminine, and then seducing us slowly. There are many many many stories and fantasies of women who force-feminize their husbands - even seducing them anally and chastising them - giving them access to multiple orgasms. And they are very popular among transgendered men.

Keep in mind that these men were FORCED to behave as men, and for many, having similar persuasion to be able to be their true selves - would be the ultimate fantasy. It would allow them to break through all of the shame, guilt, repression, fear, doubt, terror, and conditioning imposed from age six to age sixteen.

Badtranny

01-15-2012, 11:34 PM

And, believe me...women like me are not rare. I grew up repressing a need to be in a dominant role/be the seducer/the aggressor. I had a need for things sexually that are masculine. But, I hid that sh*t deep, deep down because even women are told that what they want or need is wrong. Am I FTM TS? No, I'm just a little liberated and flexible. But, I'd never have found this if I had not met my SO, who seems to understand my desires completely

What could we have ever possibly argued about? I love that post.

I happen to know a woman kinda like you though she/he is probably a little more masculine and a part time CD'r even though she looks incredibly feminine and voluptuous 95% of the time. She happens to love femmy guys and if I wasn't strictly dickly I could be very happy with her indeed.

Anna Lorree

01-15-2012, 11:39 PM

Expand your horizons...or, freak it up with your wife. It wasn't until after a lot of beer and a lot of crying that I opened it all up to my SO.

Those conversations are hard to have, I know. I have had those, too. And for my part, I think you are an attractive woman as well. You are smart and have a timelessly classic look that I wish I could emulate.

Anna

Shananigans

01-15-2012, 11:48 PM

What could we have ever possibly argued about? I love that post.

I happen to know a woman kinda like you though she/he is probably a little more masculine and a part time CD'r even though she looks incredibly feminine and voluptuous 95% of the time. She happens to love femmy guys and if I wasn't strictly dickly I could be very happy with her indeed.

I was thinking the same things. Though, our huge disagreement landed me a scholarship...so, I actually should be thanking you for the debate we had! Maybe it was meant lol.

I can't get into the mechanics of things, because it's inappropriate for this forum. However, I do not feel comfortable "looking" like a man.

I also said this in a PM, but I thought I'd say it here. If you are single and this is a fantasy you have to have, go for it. Men are highly overrated IMO. I've dated them for 10 years and can't understand the hype. Take 'em...more pretty ladies for people like me. Luckily, I'm out of that dating pool and have my SO who I love to pieces...but, seriously, go have them. I find most men to be sloppy, quick, and unimaginative lovers. If that's your cup of tea, you should go for it! Thank God for Cami.

Lucy_Bella

01-16-2012, 12:03 AM

Debbie
Most of your post is unfortunate and seems to be based on your own life.. Although some of your story I can relate to much of it wasn't how my road lead me to who I am today.. Very good story please don't get me wrong :), I for one was the bully in my pre teen days ( naturally ) .. I was married and never expected my wife to portray a dominate role, she is naturally Feminine and would have been way out of her league, she would have also assumed I was gay to even expect that to happen , just how she is..

Point is we are all still different in some way..Now the over weight by 30-50 lbs woman that was in some way Masculine is close to my last relationship ..She didn't look ( naturally ) Masculine but sometimes she acted it and it was a complete turn off.. Yes she was Bi and she didn't always enjoy me being Lucy around her.. It's not always how we assume a natural fit will suite us because it must be the relationship that works .. I considered myself lucky to have found a Bi ( mostly Lesbian ) Female to share Lucy with but it just didn't work out... I think she was looking for someone to take on a full time role and I wasn't feminine enough..

ManInBra

01-16-2012, 12:15 AM

I agree, interesting thread. Now myself, I have had my share of curious thoughts, dreams, fantasies, whatever you choose to call them. I have had them when sleeping, dressed at work doing construction, or dressed and at home in private. I am in no way attracted to other men, I have no desire to kiss, cuddle, or even make out with another guy. I did get to a point in life many years ago that was fueled by illegal substance and alcohol that I was just plain flat out curious about a bi-sexual encounter. I am still curious about somethings I never got to experience. If I was to ride the shuttle into space that does not make me an astronaut. Just because I am curious about somethings just like many of these responses, does not make me gay, or a woman a lesbian if she has an encounter with her best friend. We as humans are a curious and a sexual species. I have had bi-encounters both dressed as a guy, and when in lingerie and well I believe another time I was just naked already, lol. I really have a hard time wanting to or trying to place labels on myself or others. Labels are part of what keeps the Racial tension so high in states, countries, and continents. In closing I consider myself a bi-curious crossdressing male that it would seem is destined to be alone the rest of my life too. I, like many others, cannot or have not found "the one" yet. So yea I also have times that I get down and start to not give two sh*ts about things or myself. I also find that those are times when it seems to me that the thoughts of a possible bi-encounter cross my mind and then I also could care less about others opinions about why I shouldnt do it, etc. (It almost seems like a rebellious teen lashing out at the folks for whatever reason. lol.) Im sure Im not alone on that one either.

Annaliese2010

01-16-2012, 12:24 AM

Well...it could be when they are in 'male-mode' they simply obviously and like-duh could would and cant be w/a man cuz they're heterosexual. And...also could be, when in female mode, if this mental transition is of a sufficient degree so a to represent a Real and much more feminine psychodynamic then...

Just my logical suggestion. Sure aint Me tho. Could never Be with a 'man'. Then again...I could Be with another M2F TG Lesbian, like me. But only one who is truly self-identified with the nascent woman inside..and not justa gayora bi 'fakin it'. Know what I mean?

patti1569

01-16-2012, 01:08 AM

I'll tell you a dark little secret that I have never EVER told anyone before. I feel safe enough to say it here. I stopped considering myself "straight" in my 20's for the very reasons you have written about. I do have fantasies about being with men and can't deny those feelings. The strange part is that I have never met a man that I could see myself being with. I haven't met that man who could live up to the fantasy. The truth is that I hope I do someday. The fantasy is amazing! My stronger sexual attractions in "the real world" however is to women. I really hate labels so I tend not to consider myself bisexual or bi-curious, but, like I said, I sure am not "straight" either. As confusing as this may be to you (and I'm sure it is) imagine how it is for me!! haha. I tend to think of sexuality as a continuum. In my experience, i tend to slide up and down the continuum on a daily basis. Just my own experience. Remember, everyone is an individual and will have different experiences. No two crossdressers (like finger prints) are the same. xx Patti.

Tanya C

01-16-2012, 01:55 AM

Rarely do fantasies coincide with everyday life because they're just that, fantasies.
I think a more intriguing question would be how many "straight" cders have actually acted on this type of fantacy?

seanmuscle

01-16-2012, 02:23 AM

All CDs eventually want to be with men. The girl inside is screaming to be released. She yearns for a strong masculine man to make her feel safe, secure, protected and loved.

Chickhe

01-16-2012, 02:28 AM

There are combinations to consider... a fantasty can be about anything and it doesn't change who you are or what your orientation is. Or if it is about your identity... Suppose you are straight...that means no same sex partner, but suppose you consider yourself to be female sometimes and male other times... Then maybe you are still straight because your orientation changes to match your identity. You could also be straight and lesbian too...which means you're not in to guys at all, but maybe you can still fantisize about being female which includes feeling like a woman and being treated like one.

ManInBra

01-16-2012, 03:28 AM

Since we are talking about things we have not discussed or talked about, I posted a reply a little up this page, but what I didnt mention that I feel sent me off on the downward spiral. I spent 7 years in the US Navy, my last year in, I was on light duty for medical condition. I I was in San Diego at 32nd St. base, at the Pass and Decal Office. Since most of us there were either on medical or awaiting orders for transfer, they had a HN1 (Hospital Corpseman 1st class) as a supervisor, then he could assist anyone needing help in relation to their medical hold. I was outside doing my job one day when the supervisor asked me if I wanted to go for a ride and get out of work for awhile since it was slow. To make a long story, him being a Corpseman I had respect for the uniform, I trusted him as a Corpseman. He said he had some new meds that would work good for my medical situation, and said he would need to look at the swelling that took place in my knees. He took advantage of a situation and when I allowed access for him to examine my knees, next thing I know is this guy is reaching into my underwear and along with knees he tried to massage my penis. A female I worked with said he did same to her, we went to another supervisor and laid out the facts - Their response after "looking into it" - Well he is being transferred so he wont bother you anymore. That was 1987 - It STILL BOTHERS ME, So since I felt like a raped virgin on prom night, and nothing ever done to him, except allow him another town and more victims, So there I went, I found therapy in a bag, it helped me ease the pain and work on forgetting things. At that point if I had been remotely attracted to men I could have let him do whatever he wanted. Just like a woman that has been violated, I told him no, he continued, I felt it was my fault. And NO I didnt beat snot outta him for fear of the military UCMJ article whatever for assault. I apologize for getting so far off topic and for dragging this on, but deep down we all have things in our life that triggers certain actions or reactions. For me it was finding that I didnt give a sh*t if I woke up the next day, all because of that scumbag, so thats when I found myself in the dope bag for a number of years. it was my self medication. So there are times that even tho that may be a part of who we are (CD's, lesbian, gay, bi-curious, etc.), that does not mean that is all we live for. We all have different reasons for the things we do in our life, even tho those things may be very similar like CD'ing. For those that try and say "well you crossdressers must be more gay than straight," B.S. I dont believe that for 1 sec. We are all very different, yet so similar in what we find that works for us as an individual to help us calm down, relax, and just be ourself. Again I apologize for running on. There are times I just cannot forgive or forget.

Diane Smith

01-16-2012, 04:51 AM

All CDs eventually want to be with men. The girl inside is screaming to be released. She yearns for a strong masculine man to make her feel safe, secure, protected and loved.

Statements like this from men are exactly the reason I want to have as little as possible to do with males or masculinity, whether it's looking like them, or considering one as a sexual partner. I do not fit the stereotype described in this quote at all, and try to live my life as isolated from the world of men as possible.

- Diane

Shananigans

01-16-2012, 05:12 AM

All CDs eventually want to be with men. The girl inside is screaming to be released. She yearns for a strong masculine man to make her feel safe, secure, protected and loved.

*yawn* trollolololol

So, sean"muscle", are you adding a different dimension to the argument as a would be "strong, masculine" man to come sweep the helpless crossdressers off their feet?

#reasonwhywomenhatemen

vivianann

01-16-2012, 06:57 AM

! LOL

Wait, do I understand this, if you fantasize about sex with a man, you are gay? Does that mean if I fantasize about being rich, that will make me a millionaire? Now if you act on that fantasy, well maybe you have a point, but fantasy is just that, even if it is homo erotic. And no I don't have such fantasy's, I'm just here for the clothes.
Tina

I fantasize about being rich all the time, does that make me a richosexual.:D. :D. LOL! Just joking.

On a more serious note wearing a dress does not change my sexual desires. I am always attracted to women no matter how I am dressed, in fact crossdressing does not sexually arrouse me either. Like Tina posted I am here for the clothes.
I am discussted when I read about married ones here wanting to cheat on their wife with a man, I just get sick when I read such post, most of the time I dont even finish reading the post. My heart goes out to the wives that are married to such individuals. I dont condone cheating period.
That is why I am hesident about telling a gg sweetheart if I had one about this website, because I am afraid she will assume all crossdressers will eventually want to be with a man while dressed enfemme.
I know there are alot of cders here that are true and faithfull to their wives, and that does warm my heart, so I know there is hope for those of us who will fall in love with a gg, and will want to show her this site.
For me dressing enfemme is about expressing my feminine persona, which makes me feel complete, and it cured my depressions.

Lucy_Bella

01-16-2012, 07:22 AM

All CDs eventually want to be with men. The girl inside is screaming to be released. She yearns for a strong masculine man to make her feel safe, secure, protected and loved.

Disturbing!! Very very Disturbing ..Typical stereo type thinking ..:eek:

Badtranny

01-16-2012, 07:47 AM

Disturbing!! Very very Disturbing ..Typical stereo type thinking ..:eek:

and totally wrong. This is the problem with the gay, bi, questioning, CD's who are ashamed and make the loudest "I'm straight" declarations. When they finally get caught experimenting, people start thinking the ones that are "actually" straight are the same.

What did Margaret Thatcher say? If you have to tell someone that you are powerful, than you are not.

Shananigans, I don't want to forget to say you're welcome. ;-) Also, being with a woman of any flavor is NOT my fantasy, I'm not even attracted to feminine men. I know guys can be a ...challenge, but I love what I love. What can I do?

LaurenB

01-16-2012, 08:14 AM

I find DebbieL's post to hit closest to my home.

Now what I've learned about myself over the last few years is that the most erotic thing a partner can say or demonstrate to me is that they love me. I'm not turned on by being the stereotypical male aggressor. It was always the emotional connection that did it for me. I have a wife that I would be lost without. She and I have an extremely committed relationship that as you might imagine really does it for me sexually.

While I don't look at men as romantic objects, of course, like everyone I have homoerotic fantasies during autoerotic moments (is that too many erotics in the same sentence?). My best male friend is a pretty nice guy but like most can be an a**hole (especially to his wife at times). I can only be around him and my other male friends for limited amounts of time (my half life on sports talk is about 10 minutes). He and I ride a lot of bike miles together and we've seen each other naked a million times and it does nothing for me (I can't speak for him).

The interesting thing is that if I try to imagine myself single again and I put a man in place of my wife, and that man says and does what my wife does, I think, well the equipment is different, but if he says and acts that he loves me sincerely, I can get there.

In other words I think it's all about what really turns you on and it's different for everyone.

eluuzion

01-16-2012, 08:24 AM

There may not be a be an on/off switch. But I believe there are plenty of pretty desperate people out here concocting creatively illogical strategies or supporting illogical justification “theories”…(some bordering on sheer nonsense), in an attempt to find ways to participate in unacceptable behaviors without being held responsible for their actions or facing any consequences. :D

The following is not intended to apply to the many genuine folks that have spent a lifetime navigating the tremendously challenging diagnosed reality of navigating innate gender conflict, regardless of the point when any questionability was permanently removed. I believe it is not a “choice”, and admire your courage and strength to push forward.

With that under consideration, here is one of my personal “theories” that I believe offers one possible/logical explanation applicable to the topic. I will leave everybody to rely upon their own perceptions and opinions to assess any credibility they decide to accept or deny. It is nothing personally directed for any “purpose”. It is simply my opinion based upon personal observations, tossed out there for review. I have a lot of them, :daydreaming:

Regardless of the etiology, degree of conscious awareness and/or quantity/severity of observable “symptoms” inherent in individual members of this particular “group”, the process are recognizably similar and geared toward a common objective… “Participation without accountability.”

It is similar to the temporary childhood stage where some perfectly well-adjusted children engage in creating “imaginary friends”, as a resource tool to help them grasp such concepts as “self“, “other people” begin to navigate the processes of interpersonal interactions with other people in life. It is a challenging stage when using only the limited cognitive resources they have to draw from at that young age.

One of the typically observable “benefits” quickly discovered by kids employing this strategy is a perceived opportunity to engage in unacceptable behavior without experiencing any accountability for it. They think they can deny accountability for their actions by simply shifting blame and responsibility to their “imaginary friend” as the “person” that engaged in the behavior. “It wasn’t “me”…it was “him/her!” These elementary (and amusing) attempts sometimes displayed during that stage of childhood are typically of short duration… and abandoned by the child as conceptual cognition expands under the guidance of involved caregivers.

Encountering a life crisis, coupled with the inability to find a resolvable path causes some people to resort back to employing some of the elementary/dysfunctional strategies of their early childhood. A typical favorite is an “intellectualized” version of the “imaginary friend” concept.
“Create” a believable version of another “you” that you can blame for the unacceptable actions and behaviors you are unable or unwilling to resist participating in. You know…that “other you” that you have managed to convince yourself is so “real”…and “separate” from the “physical you”… that the “he/she” with a “different name” is actually capable of independent thought, decision making and actions (not attributable to the actual “YOU”.)

Of course it is typically accompanied with a confident self-proclaimed statement that such behavior can exist in a well-adjusted person without having any association/connection to any recognized/categorized mental (DSM) “disorders”. :brolleyes:

But hey, this is the internet...where anything is "possible", right? :heehee:

Before anybody gets their panty-hose in a bunch defending some misinterpreted distortion of my meanings here…don’t blame me for these comments…

It was Eluuzion’s idea to post this reply…not mine! I am not responsible for anything she thinks or does! I am a good girl.

:heehee::D:heehee::D

Earth, what a country…eh?

:love:

Piora

01-16-2012, 08:25 AM

All CDs eventually want to be with men. The girl inside is screaming to be released. She yearns for a strong masculine man to make her feel safe, secure, protected and loved.

What complete and utter drivel. Just because one or two profess to have fantasies about being with men, one cannot conclude that therefore, all must want to. Other factors come into play here, other than being a crossdresser.

Don't make ridiculous sweeping statements without evidence to back it up. :thumbsdn:

Stacy L

01-16-2012, 11:21 AM

All CDs eventually want to be with men. The girl inside is screaming to be released. She yearns for a strong masculine man to make her feel safe, secure, protected and loved.

And ALL bodybuilders and musclemen are gay! :brolleyes: See, I can play this game too.:devil:

Shananigans

01-16-2012, 11:38 AM

Eluuzion, those are interesting thoughts, but don't you think that if it were true that the feminine self of a crossdresser is an imaginary construction of the "true" self to resist blame that it is a very peculiar way to go about things?

I mean, by your definition, it needs to be a believable form of yourself. However, the majority of people on this site come here because their presentation isn't believable and they need assistance. (Assistance with makeup, clothes, mannerisms, etc.)

Could it just boil down to denial in the end? It seems like the same people that put blame on their feminine-self by saying stuff like their feminine side is a huge flirt, likes boys, and doing dishes (unlike their male self) are also people that tend to find themselves more believable and attractive than they really actually are...

At the same time, maybe I see a lot of people writing things about men being more accepting of CDs than women, so they sleep with men as almost a default. Is this to say that these CDs just give up hopes of majority of people finding them attractive and so they settle for a niche group of admirers? Is it like they are defaulted to gay if they can't get any action en femme? Then, to protect their heterosexual-self, they blame the encounters on their feminine side?

I'm kind of just turning things around after a few posts I have read from people. I've stayed up all night reading Game of Thrones, so I probably make zero sense.

AndreaCD1963

01-16-2012, 11:45 AM

I can only speak for myself - I'm sure everyone has their own take on it. For me, I too didn't understand for a long time. Was I straight? Was I gay? Was I somewhere in between? Was I straight or gay or in between because of my clothing choice at the time? It was only when I learned and accepted to separate cross-dressing / gender identity from sexuality that things came together and I was able to better understand and accept both WHO and WHAT I am.

IMHO, if someone is regularly (ie, not a "one off" experimentation) engaging in and enjoying same genetic sex activities, then they can't put themself exclusively into the "hetro" box.

GingerLeigh

01-16-2012, 11:46 AM

Shananigans

01-16-2012, 11:59 AM

I see a lot that fantasies are fantasies, so they hold no grounds.

However, I also see people saying all the time that they have fantasized about their feminine-self since a certain age and are using it in a way to legitimize what they do/who they are.

Why are fantasies about being a woman legit, but fantasies about a c*ck up you arse just no big thang?

It's a little like....missing the point.

I wonder when these gay fantasies started. Many CDs started dressing at a very young age. At this young age, did you have gay fantasies en femme?

My fantasies about women started at the same time as my fantasies about men. I had just hit puberty. My gay and lesbian friends are the same way...they have been attracted to the sex they are attracted to since they developed sexual attractions.

So, for CDs having this fantasy...at what age did it develop? And, at what age did you begin dressing/start fantasizing about dressing?

ArleneRaquel

01-16-2012, 12:05 PM

My fantasy, living my adult as a woman, started at the age of 8, or thereabouts, the same age that I started dressing enfemme. I've been basically 24/7 since 2003-2004.

whowhatwhen

01-16-2012, 01:01 PM

With a bit of trust and some silicone I think a woman would do a better job at that than any man, but then again I feel like I can't trust men so maybe that has something to do with it.

My gay fantasizes started as dreams and have remained there, oddly enough I never fantasize about women but they're the only thing I'm attracted to when awake.
The only thing I can figure is the bending and distortion of my true feelings to fit a black and white society.

CD Is seperate for me, I did when I was little but then I had the whole "are you gay?" talk (when I was 8?!) only to have it phase in and out for a few years.
Nothing's really changed, I know I have a feminine side but due to circumstances I haven't seen her yet but I can't imagine fully dressing changing anything.

Badtranny

01-16-2012, 01:17 PM

With a bit of trust and some silicone I think a woman would do a better job at that than any man,

Hmmmmm, I've done a lot more than fantasize about both of those scenarios, multiple times and I can tell you what I think from actual experience; There ain't nothin' like the real thing baby. ;-)

ReineD

01-16-2012, 01:23 PM

All CDs eventually want to be with men. The girl inside is screaming to be released. She yearns for a strong masculine man to make her feel safe, secure, protected and loved.

How many times have you said this on this board, and do you even notice that the responses to your comments are negative? Don't you get tired of appearing like a fool, or do you even bother reading threads after you've posted in them? I can't make up my mind if you are a troll or if you are simply obtuse. I'm veering towards the latter.

moondog

01-16-2012, 01:24 PM

Shananigans,

I started wearing panties at 6, why, who knows, I was only six. The only reason it's been burned into my brain is because my mother caught me, and I have been wearing panties on and off ever since. The first time I fantasised about actually being female, I would guess pre-teen...8 or 9. The thought of boys did not enter into that, I just liked all of the cool clothes girls got to wear, still do, while I had sneakers, jeans, and t-shirts. The first time I actually fantasised about being female and having a boyfriend would be about the same time I started fantasising about having sex with girls, somewhere around 13 or 14.

I have only had 1 fantasy where I was a guy and with a guy, and my wife was in that fantasy as well. Don't know if that means anything at all.

I cannot say that I have ever fantasised about dressing as a woman, I do dress as a woman, when I have oppportunity. Also I'm not trying to use my need for dressing as a woman for an excuse to want to have sex with a man. Perhaps had I a different upbringing I very well might be outright gay, be bi, or have transitioned to female. Specualtion on what might have been will not help me at this point because I did not have that upbringing. Where I am now is where I'm starting from.

Honestly I have no clue why I'm straight as a guy and also straight as a girl. I think some people are having difficulty wrapping their heads around the fact that some people, like me, can actually have two seperate personalities, 1 male and 1 female. Yes, my body is male, but when she takes control...my body is male only in its outer form.

I told my therepist she's got her work cut out for her.

Shananigans

01-16-2012, 01:50 PM

Sometimes, what we have built up in our heads as fantasies for "getting off purposes" are things we actually don't want to try in reality. There's a lot of things I can think about for...personal purposes...that I found I did not like in reality.

You have to figure out what it is that is attracting you to men. I know a lot of guys have penis fetishes. It's part of a dominance thing, I think. (And, I think its ingrained in men to be obsessed with their junk). But, in reality, these people with this fetish aren't actually attracted to men...just the idea of being dominated.

Sex is pretty much just sex. It works a bit different with a man than with a woman. But, in the end..boinking is boinking. You may be bisexual, but may also be more submissive. I recommend just finding someone that completes you.

Eventually, you can do pretty much everything under the sun with all different types of people. Sex is sex. It can get pretty boring and you don't have a whole lot to show for it. Finding someone you love and can share eveything under the sun with is rare.

I sometimes feel a little sorry for people that get caught up in their sexuality. It might be because I just don't understand gender being a huge deciding factor in who you may date/be intimate with. Genitals are genitals...mostly replicas can be bought that perform surprisingly the same functions as the real counterparts. But, I think if this is a major deciding factor in your love life, you are setting yourself up for a shallow relationship.

I know I joke a lot about men being overrated. I don't really hate men. I often say I'd never date men again, but that's only a half truth too. I'm open to anyone that I love and am attracted to. Genitalia is not the deciding factor. It's so much easier to be this way because it opens a lot of doors. You don't have to struggle with the whole complex of 'Am I gay? Am I straight?' You're just open to love who you love.

Part of the reason fantasies are so strong and compete with real life is that your mind is the most sensual organ. Finding someone that can take sex beyond just a physical level to something greater is what to aim to find. In those people, you are taken a little beyond mechanics of genitalia. But, anyway, this is getting a little bit too old Eastern philosophy on sex lives. But, that would be my advice...being that I also like men and women and have had fantasies fulfilled that weren't up to par. However, I found something a bit greater than I could have fantasized and now I just have great sex.

With a bit of trust and some silicone I think a woman would do a better job at that than any man, but then again I feel like I can't trust men so maybe that has something to do with it.

My gay fantasizes started as dreams and have remained there, oddly enough I never fantasize about women but they're the only thing I'm attracted to when awake.
The only thing I can figure is the bending and distortion of my true feelings to fit a black and white society.

CD Is seperate for me, I did when I was little but then I had the whole "are you gay?" talk (when I was 8?!) only to have it phase in and out for a few years.
Nothing's really changed, I know I have a feminine side but due to circumstances I haven't seen her yet but I can't imagine fully dressing changing anything.

whowhatwhen

01-16-2012, 02:05 PM

Interesting stuff...
I can imagine passive/submissive men being confused as I was/am as society generally makes no allowances for them, in 100 years we'll look back in shame at what people have done to each other.

I see it all the time where unless the man is running the show he's "p***y whipped" or whatever the plastic machismo machine decides to call it.
Despite being one, my experiences have given me a low opinion of men in general especially when I hear things like "marry a girl of [x ethnicity] because they'll do [y]" or something like that.
Another one was if she keeps her last name or hyphenates after marriage you're a failure as a man.

Everything just seems so fake, plastic, and arbitrary.

Wait... I wrote this and I'm not even sure it's on topic...

Shananigans

01-16-2012, 02:07 PM

Also, side-note incentive to get out of the very shallow aspects of sex and take things to a deeper level are these things called 20 minute orgasms. Focus on genitals all you want, but if you are one and done...phwew...you are cheating yourself!!!

I will say practice makes perfect with taking sex to a different level all together, but damn...who doesn't like practicing?

sherri

01-16-2012, 02:35 PM

At the same time, maybe I see a lot of people writing things about men being more accepting of CDs than women, so they sleep with men as almost a default. Is this to say that these CDs just give up hopes of majority of people finding them attractive and so they settle for a niche group of admirers?Gotta be careful with the use of the word "accepting". A willingness to engage in sex does not necessarily denote acceptance. Yes, there does seem to be a core group of genuine TG admirers out there, but there are also men outside this group who seem to want sex with a TG, but those same guys would prolly have sex with just about anything that would lay still long enough. In other words, horniness does not = acceptance.

But more to your point, yes, there do seem to be more men than women out there interested in TGs, but I think this has far more to do with male sexuality vs female sexuality than tolerance. In fact, if you were to remove sex from the equation, I think women are in general more tolerant of TGs than are men.

Is it like they are defaulted to gay if they can't get any action en femme? Then, to protect their heterosexual-self, they blame the encounters on their feminine side?For a sizable segment of the CD community, there's prolly a hard kernel of truth in what you say. But this whole train of inquiry and thought presumes the person is conflicted about his/her sexuality. Some of us don't experience any such internal conflict, and I've never understood why some people are apparently so alarmed/guilty about non-hetero feelings. I yam what I yam, as Popeye sez, and it doesn't occur to me to feel guilty about it. But I am really tired of dealing with people who are obviously (or not so obviously) conflicted about their interest in someone like me. Therein lies the rub.

ArleneRaquel

01-16-2012, 02:37 PM

At my age, 64, I have no conflict about my sexuality.

Shananigans

01-16-2012, 02:46 PM

Sherri, I definitely don't feel like all CDs go through this...at all. I do, however, think society stresses a few things about sexuality. Mainly the focus of sex seems to be focused on heterosexuality. And, if it's not just heterosexuality, it's focused around the really dull sweating and humping, one and done type of sex.

It's really no wonder people retreat to fantasies and then get extremetly confused. This confusions manifests in a lot of different people.

There are certainly some CDs that are very different than the above statements and we have enjoyed a few PMs in hashing out these subjects.

Anyway, I'm glad you pointed that out about some admirers. I don't have a lot of experience with them, so I'll let the people on here be the voices on that group. I avoid most of them at all costs...some are REALLY super interested in Cami and I as a couple and we've had a few "offers." Really weird.

Anyway, I'm talking too much on this thread. I just like it a lot. I hope SweetPea doesn't mind my blabbering mouth. <3

kimdl93

01-16-2012, 02:53 PM

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I do suspect that for some CDrs, their sexuality is something that they experience.... well, alone. And fantasy has become the focus of their sexual fullfillment. In that situation, its much easier and safer to imagine sexual encounters that the individual might never wish to experience in real life. the more intense, the more forbidden, the stronger the fantasy. There's nothing wrong with this, of course.

For myself, I have expereinced bisexual encounters, but never were these associated with cross dressing. And in my real world experience, I don't find the gay or bi men are generally interested in CDrs. They're clearly interested in other males. And oddly, CDing has always played a part sensuality with my wife. Go figure!

seanmuscle

01-16-2012, 03:15 PM

*yawn* trollolololol

So, sean"muscle", are you adding a different dimension to the argument as a would be "strong, masculine" man to come sweep the helpless crossdressers off their feet?

#reasonwhywomenhatemen

I can have different opinions than you. Its allowed and welcomed. I am representing the non cd men out there who respect CD as girls

How many times have you said this on this board, and do you even notice that the responses to your comments are negative? Don't you get tired of appearing like a fool, or do you even bother reading threads after you've posted in them? I can't make up my mind if you are a troll or if you are simply obtuse. I'm veering towards the latter.

Reine maybe not ALL CD like men. But the percentage of CD who like men is the same as the percentage of gg who like men. I am talking about the majority. I hope you understand me better

whowhatwhen

01-16-2012, 03:30 PM

Anyway, I'm talking too much on this thread. I just like it a lot. I hope SweetPea doesn't mind my blabbering mouth. <3

Keep going, these posts from everyone are especially helpful on giving insight into my own self.
I can't speak for everyone, but knowing and understanding the how and why is a big reason I read these threads.

Shananigans

01-16-2012, 03:32 PM

Reine maybe not ALL CD like men. But the percentage of CD who like men is the same as the percentage of gg who like men. I am talking about the majority. I hope you understand me better

Citation needed. The research I've found indicates otherwise. But, I like looking at things on an individual basis.

ReineD

01-16-2012, 03:33 PM

Reine maybe not ALL CD like men. But the percentage of CD who like men is the same as the percentage of gg who like men. I am talking about the majority. I hope you understand me better

:wall:

The question is not how much I understand you, it is how much you understand the community.

In an attempt to explain, once again:

The percentage of same-sex attracted men is the same among the CDing community as it is among non-CDers. The majority of CDers are heterosexual. Granted, many do enjoy fantasies, but thread after thread in this forum including this one discuss the notion of the "faceless, fantasy man" as an accessory, a prop if you will, to the CDing. And nothing more. Other than CDers who are already gay or bi, you will see posts from the CDers who have tested this "fantasy" in real life and have found the results to be disappointing at best.

So maybe you get your kicks out of perpetuating a fantasy, maybe it is all real to you and who knows what you do with it when you log off this board, but your insistence that *all* or *the majority* of CDers like men and would have sex with them is categorically false.

I do wish you would read all the responses by the CDers (and not the GGs) to your posts, and pay attention. I mean, really read them and believe them. Your continued rhetoric is becoming boring.

suchacutie

01-16-2012, 03:36 PM

Having a fantasy is one thing, and I would imagine that in the right frame of mind any possible form of sexual activity could be a turn on in one's fantasy. Fantasies are "clean" and go away when the mind shuts them down. They interact with no one and nothing, and are not real.

However, once a "straight" individual wants the reality of a member of their own genetic gender, the word "straight" simply no longer applies.

I think all of us who are transgendered have had this issue cross their minds. How could it not? It looks like I'm pretty "straight" as the reality of being involved with a guy is not at all appatizing at any level.

tina

Cheryl T

01-16-2012, 04:13 PM

Fantasies are just that....fantasies. Most will never act upon them, but the fantasy is the thrill in itself.

My wife asked me about that once...would I like to be with a man. I told her no...if anything, I'm a lesbian...and all I want is her.

Piora

01-16-2012, 05:33 PM

I can have different opinions than you. Its allowed and welcomed. I am representing the non cd men out there who respect CD as girls

Well, perhaps you're confusing the fact that you may be attracted to CDs - but very few of them are going to be attracted to you. (as a man) It doesn't change the facts, as Reine is trying so hard to point out to you.

Reine maybe not ALL CD like men. But the percentage of CD who like men is the same as the percentage of gg who like men. I am talking about the majority. I hope you understand me better

Proof. Where is your proof? Well, no surprise....you have none. You're living in some kind of fantasy world.:doh:

Lucy_Bella

01-16-2012, 05:43 PM

and totally wrong. This is the problem with the gay, bi, questioning, CD's who are ashamed and make the loudest "I'm straight" declarations. When they finally get caught experimenting, people start thinking the ones that are "actually" straight are the same.

What did Margaret Thatcher say? If you have to tell someone that you are powerful, than you are not.

No Totally right ,please do not paint me the same color as others.. I was never a big Margaret Thatcher fan either.. I am very secure in my sexuality and I do not need anyone to question it ,..That kind of remark was made as an attempt to get to people and it's disturbing..!!

Contessa

01-16-2012, 05:47 PM

To make sure I was not in the wrong place I went back and read the question again. I have never heard anyone other than here say any such thing. But if you want to be with another man then you would have to do that to be gay. Cause thinking about something does not make it so. I have never thought about being with another man and I don't want to. But if you do then you can. I mean those that can not you. If you are gay you're gay and if you are bi you're bi but I have never wanted to be with men because I am one. I could think about maybe some one who at the time looks like but as soon as they removed the girl part I would simply revert back to I only like women.

I tried to think of myself as gay, but turning gay after 38 years of marriage I don't know how. Although I now consider myself a crossdresser, I even have pink nail polish on my fingers and red on my toes. I still am not gay, I always thought that people were born that way. Now I can be bi curious because I dress as a woman once in a while. I only dress this way I don't think as a woman. I am just this way because I like it or I love it. Nothing against anyone else. I am just being me.

Contessa Marie

Badtranny

01-16-2012, 05:53 PM

No Totally right ,please do not paint me the same color as others.. I was never a big Margaret Thatcher fan either..

Um, did you lose track of the thread? I was agreeing with you. I was saying that Sean's comment about CD's was totally wrong, but maybe the reason he thinks like that is because the loudest "I'm straighters" have turned out to be not so straight. I'm assuming that Sean has bagged a CD or two in his travels.

And what am I painting you by the way? Also just because you're not a fan doesn't mean you can't recognize the poignancy of a comment.

C'mon people if we're going to have a grown up discussion we need to pay attention to the dang discussion.

Lucy_Bella

01-16-2012, 06:01 PM

Ha ha ha .... Okay I miss understood ...But I am still not a Margaret Thatcher fan :)... surry!!

whowhatwhen

01-16-2012, 06:03 PM

That totally reminds me...

"We must protect the sanctity of marriage!"
*has raunchy gay sex in seedy bathroom*

Shananigans

01-16-2012, 07:02 PM

I wonder what that Dan Savage guy would say about all of this...

My gay friend just said that he fantasizes about being straight.

Mind blown! Or, maybe he's pulling my leg. I can never tell...hmmm...

But, he did offer an interesting point that people seem to get bored and "try out gay, because men will f*ck anything twice...girls, boys, sheep." I was still kind of wondering how you could be straight and have had sex with someone of your same gender. He said, "I've had sex with plenty of straight guys. They try out the gay and it's a little too much for them, so they go find some boobs to cry on. I'm like Good Luck Chuck...only from behind though."

I believe I have all of my answers now. You all have a grea night.

That totally reminds me...

"We must protect the sanctity of marriage!"
*has raunchy gay sex in seedy bathroom*

As long as it's not the boy's bathroom, I guess. It smells funny :(

Badtranny

01-16-2012, 07:28 PM

But, he did offer an interesting point that people seem to get bored and "try out gay, because men will f*ck anything twice...girls, boys, sheep." I was still kind of wondering how you could be straight and have had sex with someone of your same gender. He said, "I've had sex with plenty of straight guys. They try out the gay and it's a little too much for them, so they go find some boobs to cry on. I'm like Good Luck Chuck...only from behind though."

lol I love this guy! Find some boobs to cry on, ...priceless

I think the deal is men like to have a lot of sex. One guy at a bar (black guy) was coming on pretty hard and I told him that I might not be what he thinks I am and he said "Oh I know what you are and I don't give a f**k, you still bangin' and Niggas will f**k a keyhole if they could get it in". Such a charmer right? He was pretty hot but I told him my keyhole days were long past and I was looking for something a little more romantic.

My point is, testosterone poisoning is a terrible thing and I think ALL men (GM or trans) need to be cut a little slack because of the almighty T. Your friend is right, most guys will F anything twice and I bet I could get the straightest guy in the world in bed after a few drinks. That's just kinda how they are. I don't begrudge anybody some freaky experimentation, I just think they need to be honest with themselves at the very least.

Dee Baker

01-16-2012, 07:31 PM

I cant explain... I'm heterosexual dressed or drab.

Debglam

01-16-2012, 07:38 PM

How many times have you said this on this board, and do you even notice that the responses to your comments are negative? Don't you get tired of appearing like a fool, or do you even bother reading threads after you've posted in them? I can't make up my mind if you are a troll or if you are simply obtuse. I'm veering towards the latter.

*yawn* trollolololol

So, sean"muscle", are you adding a different dimension to the argument as a would be "strong, masculine" man to come sweep the helpless crossdressers off their feet?

#reasonwhywomenhatemen

:evilbegon

And a GG(s) will lead them! Thanks for taking the lob ladies! It just never ends sometimes.

BTW, This is an absolutely AWESOME thread!

Mark/Rebecca

01-16-2012, 07:44 PM

Perhaps the ultimate act of submission for a submissive hetero cd is to be manhandled, or taken by a man. Or the humiliation element may be there for him. As a cd I couldnt muster any interest in gents, but as a man I want to be in a supportive and protective position for other girls.

Barbara Dugan

01-16-2012, 08:50 PM

Very interesting thread, I don't have the answer to the original question. Sexuality can always be a complex thing.I understand the concern of the OP... perhaps the magic clothes don't exist but dressing can facilitate things that lead to same sex sexual encounters...I am a '' bottom gay transvestite'' and I put emphasize on the Transvestite part if I want to go with the current definition of one. Sometimes I think of myself like '' the straight crossdresser'' worst nightmare because I use the allure of dressing to have sex with straight acting masculine guys, the same kind of guys that won't get attracted to me on my masculine form.

NathalieX66

01-16-2012, 09:07 PM

There are bi/gay CD'ers out there, they're out there, I know quite a few, personally. ....but they don't define us all.
But being a CD, or transgender is not an advanced form of homosexuality. When I told a bunch of gay friends about me, they didn't understand me anyore than straight people understand me. Once in a while I run into a tranny-chaser (hope this is not too derogatory a word) , that's the way it is, it goes with the territory of being CD/TG. Poor guys always seem dissapointed when I refuse their offers. I can't blame them.
I know I'm not attracted to guys, never was, never will be. I don't dress in womens' clothes to attract guys, I do it because it's really me, the real me, and wearing guy's clothes make me unhappy. I have a very deep girl side of me.
Sexuality is a complicated thing. Sometimes the transgender aspect propels the desires in some people to go in a variety of directions.
being a CD'er is not One Size Fits All.

cassandra54

01-16-2012, 09:34 PM

I often fantasize about piloting a rocket to the Moon. Does that mean I'm an Astronaut? Good lord NO! I'm afraid of heights and confined spaces. Fantasies are a wonderful thing and everyone has them. They don't usually mean anything. However, acting on a fantasy is something else altogether. That requires planning and intent which is significantly more than a mere flight of fancy.

Ginger

i agree with Ginger entirely. i have been with both men and women. women mostly. i lived with a man when i was in my early 20's and it was great. i've been married twice. so i can say without a doubt that attraction to me is about how someone talks to me, chemistry and yes the fantasy of it. i don't fantasize about every scenario and don't act on the ones that i do fantasize about. i could not say for sure in my life what the defining moment was that i decided to act on any of my fantasies and i don't know if anyone can say what that moment is for sure or how you could predict it. perhaps for me it's just a total lack of inhibition, but tempered with a good deal of common sense and responsibility

i think the numbers of men who are straight who fantasize about being with men and the number of straight CDs that fantasize about men are about the same. i really don't think it matters whether or not you dress, you have the same fantasies no matter what. women have similar fantasies but men or women usually don't talk about it. i think that once you cross that line and act upon it, then it makes you bisexual or gay.

i will say this. being dressed and being intimate with someone do not go hand in hand for me. i think it would be nice to be intimate while dressed, but it's not an end-all. since i've really gotten into being Cassandra and joining this forum, my urgency for intimacy has decreased somewhat. yes i still want to, but i am very very selective.

the last thing i am leaving out is fetishists. there are a lot of straight me who want to be dominated sexually by a CD, or CDs who like to play with others. true they may be CDs, but i don't think they dress out of the bedroom or when they are not engaged in sexual activities. i think that's what defines them as fetishists

so maybe my point is a little long winded here. there are guys who want to dress as women and guys who want to be with men. sometimes it's both. sometimes they act on it and sometimes they don't it also speaks to the degree of involvement. you know some guys undress or are closeted and some go all out, buy wigs and makeup, and go out in public. same thing with guys fooling around with other guys, sometimes they meet in a park and touch, while some go all out and spend and evening in bed together.

that's my take on this.

Dee Baker

01-16-2012, 09:59 PM

When I told a bunch of gay friends about me, they didn't understand me anyore than straight people understand me. One Size Fits All.

Guess we are so misunderstood by everyone.

SweetPea_GG

01-16-2012, 10:00 PM

Anyway, I'm talking too much on this thread. I just like it a lot. I hope SweetPea doesn't mind my blabbering mouth. <3

It's np at all shananigans I don't mind at all I enjoy your views very much too.

I'm kinda surprised this thread has gotten this much response and these many deep posts. I really love viewing everyone's opinions Once I can get to a real computer to post a better reply I will. For now I'm on my phone.

NathalieX66

01-16-2012, 10:04 PM

Guess we are so misunderstood by everyone.

Dee, yuou missed the "not" part of my Not One Size Fits All" quote.

seanmuscle

01-17-2012, 05:13 AM

lol I love this guy! Find some boobs to cry on, ...priceless

I think the deal is men like to have a lot of sex. One guy at a bar (black guy) was coming on pretty hard and I told him that I might not be what he thinks I am and he said "Oh I know what you are and I don't give a f**k, you still bangin' and Niggas will f**k a keyhole if they could get it in". Such a charmer right? He was pretty hot but I told him my keyhole days were long past and I was looking for something a little more romantic.

My point is, testosterone poisoning is a terrible thing and I think ALL men (GM or trans) need to be cut a little slack because of the almighty T. Your friend is right, most guys will F anything twice and I bet I could get the straightest guy in the world in bed after a few drinks. That's just kinda how they are. I don't begrudge anybody some freaky experimentation, I just think they need to be honest with themselves at the very least.

Exactly. Men do not want the penis of a CD. Men are simply attracted to femininity and treating her like any other girl.

Danni Bear

01-17-2012, 05:46 AM

All CDs eventually want to be with men. The girl inside is screaming to be released. She yearns for a strong masculine man to make her feel safe, secure, protected and loved.

Sean,

let me let you in on a secret. women DON'T need a masculine man to make her feel safe,secure,protected and loved. We do enjoy those sensations but we can and do provide them for ourselves.

Danni Bear

former CD\TG\TS\IS now allWOMAN

DebbieL

01-17-2012, 09:09 AM

sherri

01-17-2012, 09:34 AM

When I told a bunch of gay friends about me, they didn't understand me anyore than straight people understand me.That's been my experience as well. And some have a decidedly negative attitude toward CDers (but they seem to love drag queens -- go figure). But I have also encountered quite a bit of tolerance and acceptance from gays and lesbians, even if they're not inclined to be romantically interested.

jillleanne

01-17-2012, 10:36 AM

For some, the fantasy of being a real woman or more accurately, " I wonder what it would feel like" with a man, even if that only includes walking in public with your arm on his portraying a genetic woman, does not make the person gay, bi or whatever, nor does it confuse them about themselves. . It is simply a part of the "I wonder what if" part of being gender enhanced. It is part of the question they are asking themselves about who they really are. They are reaching to the outer limits to see just how far, or conversely, how close they can come in their fantasy, to being a real woman and attempting to discover just how a real woman feels being with a man. In reality, if a genetic man ever approached them, they would be turned off totally, unless they truly are bi, gay, etc.

KylieA

01-17-2012, 11:57 AM

Parts of this discussion reminds of Malvina Reynolds' song "Little Boxes":

Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky tacky,1
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

And the people in the houses
All went to the university,
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same,
And there's doctors and lawyers,
And business executives,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

And they all play on the golf course
And drink their martinis dry,
And they all have pretty children
And the children go to school,
And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university,
Where they are put in boxes
And they come out all the same.

And the boys go into business
And marry and raise a family
In boxes made of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.
I find a lot of people like to construct new boxes for people. The boxes are even constructed in the LGBT and alternative communities.

-Kylie

Badtranny

01-17-2012, 12:52 PM

Let's be clear on this. I am NOT trying to put people into little boxes. I'm trying to get them OUT of the boxes. The people I'm talking directly to are the ones who put themselves in the 'straight' box. Except their box is the 'straight except when' box. There is no EXCEPT, you're either straight or you're not. If you want to talk about fluidity that's fine, but 'straight' is very specific and very limiting.

Call yourself whatever you want, just know this; when you say you are totally straight, are not attracted to men at all, UNLESS some condition is being met, then you just look silly. Why not call yourself what you are, sexually adventurous, or fluid, or bi, or whatever. There is no such thing as 'straight except'. Why is this even an argument?

moondog

01-17-2012, 12:55 PM

I'm partial to "sexually fluid" but it almost sounds like "sexual fluid" which, although nice, isn't what I'm thinking about, I guess I'd have to go with "sexually adventurous," which I am and have always been.

Shananigans

01-17-2012, 02:33 PM

Yeaaaaaaah...I kind of get what Melissa is saying. I don't think you have to corner yourself into bisexuality if you are having fantasies about men while you are dressed as a woman.

In fact, being bisexual...I kind of DON'T want people like that in my "box", because it implies there is an on/off switch with sexuality. The gay community has been pretty adamant that this is NOT a choice and there is no on/off switch. I agree with the community on this point. In fact, people have only just started taking us seriously on this point. When it was seen as a choice that could be turned "off," we were all mentally ill and in need of therapy.

I'm sure a few transsexual people can relate to these modes of thinking.

But, I agree with Melissa that it would be kind of funny to say, "I am completely 100% straight...no d*ck for me...except those times when I am dressed as a woman and getting off on that thought."

I will stomp my feet all day and say this is not bisexuality because bisexuality cannot be turned off by a change in clothing presentation. People will agree to disagree.

I mean, I would just call you sexually freaky if you had these fantasies, but couldn't actually act on them. Hmmmm...I'd say this is true for a few of my fantasies. And, it's totally fine...usually what is going on in your head is a lot different than real life anyway.

If you do actually act on them and hate it...maybe you "tried out bi" and it wasn't your thing. So, maybe you fall more on towards being straight with kinky fantasies that just don't hold up in real life. There's a million people in the same shoes if my gay friend isn't pulling my leg. Would future straight partners understand your experimentation? I don't know. I'd probably find it questionable, but I don't have a track record to be judging you...some straight people have a track record that they could probably judge you pretty harshly. Life isn't fair...oh well.

If you "tried out bi" and liked it, but STILL maintain that you MUST be dressed as a woman to get off on guys....well...I'd say you are confused. That's just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions...

busker

01-17-2012, 02:46 PM

There is no such thing as 'straight except'. Why is this even an argument?

Because people always want a way out. A scapegoat of some sort or other. they don't want to be responsible for what they do and "except" provides the escape hatch.

ReineD

01-17-2012, 03:07 PM

Thought I might post this. It's as good a definition as any:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial

billie earls

01-17-2012, 04:00 PM

Debbie I think you read my mind with your statement. I wish I had this understanding back when I could do something about it and not stay in the closet.

DeniseNJ

01-17-2012, 04:33 PM

Wow:eek: I didn't think this thread would create so much controversy. I read the post and quotes but it all boils down to individual decessions and desires.It is like asking a question is it right or wrong to crossdress, now that would be a interesting thread. I have a Friend who is Gay he is 56 years old, He has opened up about his taste in men.
He knows I dress and seen pics of me as Denise, I even let him take a few pics of me in heels which he said was neat. He is not at all interested in me either way and that is totally fine with me as he is one hairy beast and I am not attracted to the male image... He like OLD KOOKS as he puts it. He told me when he was in his
20's he lusted for Linden B Johnson VP of the USA back then. For the life of me I couldn't fathom why he lusted after that guy:eek: He is currently with a 80 year old man and been with him for the past 20 years. So it goes to show you life is not Black and White but a full aray of colors My O2 cent worth..

Rianna Humble

01-17-2012, 06:48 PM

Well, perhaps you're confusing the fact that you may be attracted to CDs - but very few of them are going to be attracted to you. (as a man) It doesn't change the facts, as Reine is trying so hard to point out to you.

Proof. Where is your proof? Well, no surprise....you have none. You're living in some kind of fantasy world.:doh:

Hi Piora, the only problemwith trying to reason with this wannabee troll is that you make him believe that his trolling has been successful. If more of us placed him on permanent ignore, he might just realise that his ceaseless repetition of the same lies is not going to get him anywhere.

Barbara Dugan

01-17-2012, 07:02 PM

Exactly. Men do not want the penis of a CD. Men are simply attracted to femininity and treating her like any other girl.

Some think like that...but I can tell you from personal experience that the vast majority of admirers are attracted to it...now that give me some trouble because I have mixed feelings about that part of my body, now I am ashamed to admit that sometimes I use it as bait to lure a good looking ''Straight'' acting guy

Piora

01-17-2012, 07:32 PM

Hi Piora, the only problem with trying to reason with this wannabee troll is that you make him believe that his trolling has been successful. If more of us placed him on permanent ignore, he might just realize that his ceaseless repetition of the same lies is not going to get him anywhere.

Yes, I didn't realize that that was what he was doing until later on. I am not usually one to feed trolls, but did so in this case. You're right, of course.

whowhatwhen

01-17-2012, 09:22 PM

now I am ashamed to admit that sometimes I use it as bait to lure a good looking ''Straight'' acting guy

No one put a gun to their head...

Badtranny

01-17-2012, 09:29 PM

No one put a gun to their head...

No pun intended :-*

Dee Baker

01-17-2012, 09:31 PM

being a CD'er is not One Size Fits All.

That is so true and its probably a good thing. Life would be booring if we were all the same.

I just wish we werent so misunderstood.

NicoleScott

01-17-2012, 11:51 PM

We seem to be caught up once again in the word game. Let's kill the argument by getting the definitions right. One of the definitions of fantasy I found in a dictionary is "imagination unrestricted by reality". Another is "whimsy". Heterosexual (synonym: straight) describes an attraction for a person of the opposite sex. It may be fair to say that a M2F cd may not be straight if there's a desire for a sexual encounter with a man, but it's quite a leap to say that imagining an encounter is the same as desiring one, and disallowing a person who fantasizes about men but is not attracted to men the use of the label "straight".
Many cd's with absolutely no desire to have sex with a man still fantasize about a date with one, to be treated like a lady in fulfillment of a fantasy.
Have you ever contemplated rape, or murder? No, not desiring to do it, but thinking about what it would be like, or how others who do those things might think and feel, And then rejecting the thought as unacceptable behavior, which would be impossible without first contemplating it. It's unrestricted imagination, then discarded by introducing reality into it. That doesn't make you a rapist or murderer.
One post here tells of years of fantasizing about men, and denial, before finally figuring it out and accepting gayness. And then goes on to say that those who fantasize about men are similarly in denial and need to get a grip. You know: been there, done that, know all the excuses, had the fantasies and turned out gay, so if you have fantasies and claim to be straight, you're gay but in denial. All those years of confusion, and suddenly has everyone else figured out. C'mon man!
By definition, fantasies aren't real.

Badtranny

01-18-2012, 12:16 AM

C'mon man!
By definition, fantasies aren't real.

Nicole, I agree with this. I don't think anyone is saying that fantasies mean anything by the way. Shoot I sometimes fantasize about being a kept woman. That sure as hell ain't real ;-)

Dannie Lefae

01-18-2012, 12:39 AM

Wouldn't this question go to the core of , "what is straight?" ? I mean, I have had sexual relations with guys and girls, I am a cross-dresser who has been in a monogamous relationship for 18 years with my lovely wife and I now identify as straight because I relate sexual orientation to sexual behavior. I have not had sexual relations with anyone, male or female since making a commitment to my wife 18 years ago, therefore, to me, being in a straight relationship, that is my orientation. Some would argue that sexual orientation is the same as sexual identification. To this I would say the sexual psyche is different than the emotional psyche and when I feel like Dannie and not Dan I am connecting with my emotional psyche. Two different halves of the whole.
That's just how I see it. But when it comes right down to it, the only identification I need to understand and come to terms with are my own.

Peace,
D

whowhatwhen

01-18-2012, 10:13 AM

No pun intended :-*

Well, I wouldn't have pegged this thread for such a thing...

(sorry)

sometimes_miss

01-18-2012, 12:23 PM

SweetPea,

I think you're having difficulty because you're attempting to apply narrowly defined labels upon someone. Either you're gay or not. Either you're bi or not. If bi-curious works for you than stick with it. Some people cannot be labeled because professional psychologists have, so far, failed to come up with a new definition for what maybe considered a new sexual identification.
Rats. lost my whole post. I think labels are a big part of the problem. Let's remember that sexual orientation is rarely either completely heterosexual, or completely homosexual. Like a standard bell curve, the vast majority fall into the part which is mostly heterosexual, but you have individuals who are just to the side of that middle who are more homosexual or more heterosexual. The problem we run into most, is the huge stigma attached to homosexuality. Most men are completely unwilling to accept that they have homosexual desires; society has bred it into us to avoid anything feminine, ever. Male soldiers use feminine adjectives as insults to call each other. As we grow up, we are constantly told by other men (and it's a concept reinforced by women!), that being feminine in any way is the worst thing any man can be. So, we bury very deep any idea of it. Remove the stigma attached to homosexuality, and I think lots of crossdressers would indulge in a rare occasional gay 'fling' and that would be it.

ReineD

01-18-2012, 01:39 PM

Like a standard bell curve, the vast majority fall into the part which is mostly heterosexual, but you have individuals who are just to the side of that middle who are more homosexual or more heterosexual.

I agree with you that the majority of people are hetero. But, I'm not so sure about the "mostly" hetero. This implies there is the possibility of same-sex attraction with most people?

The majority of people are not interested in same-sex attraction. I've heard said on this site (more than in other places) that this a social construct and if we were all raised in gay/bi communities, we would all be sexually flexible but I don't buy this at all. If this were true, our species would not propagate. :p A smaller percentage of people can go both ways, or are strictly same-sex attracted, but to say there is a large number of people who could be same-sex attracted under the right circumstances I think is wishful thinking, or a rationalization among members of the CDing community who do engage in same-sex fantasies strictly as the outcome of an intense need to feel feminine that is brought about by the CDing.

I'm not saying there aren't CDers who are gay or bi, just that I think for those who aren't, it's important to separate an autogynephilic fantasy from how a person would feel if he were actually naked in a room with another man.

seanmuscle

01-18-2012, 06:08 PM

I agree with you that the majority of people are hetero. But, I'm not so sure about the "mostly" hetero. This implies there is the possibility of same-sex attraction with most people?

The majority of people are not interested in same-sex attraction. I've heard said on this site (more than in other places) that this a social construct and if we were all raised in gay/bi communities, we would all be sexually flexible but I don't buy this at all. If this were true, our species would not propagate. :p A smaller percentage of people can go both ways, or are strictly same-sex attracted, but to say there is a large number of people who could be same-sex attracted under the right circumstances I think is wishful thinking, or a rationalization among members of the CDing community who do engage in same-sex fantasies strictly as the outcome of an intense need to feel feminine that is brought about by the CDing.

I'm not saying there aren't CDers who are gay or bi, just that I think for those who aren't, it's important to separate an autogynephilic fantasy from how a person would feel if he were actually naked in a room with another man.

Renne. What about men who have genetic defect and born with no penis or testes. does that make him a woman? They need artificial injections of testosterone to look like a man. And what about post op transexual who have a vagina? Your definitions are no good for this.

A persons gender is female brain or male brain. Not their private parts.

ReineD

01-18-2012, 07:12 PM

Renne. What about men who have genetic defect and born with no penis or testes. does that make him a woman? They need artificial injections of testosterone to look like a man. And what about post op transexual who have a vagina? Your definitions are no good for this.

A persons gender is female brain or male brain. Not their private parts.

Please read my post. I'm describing same-sex vs. opposite-sex attraction in the general population. I'm describing a normal distribution and not the extremes. If you compare the segment of the population who are TS or Intersex (is this what you mean by men born with no penises or testes?) to the whole, you'll see that it is very small.

However, if you want to make the case that a transsexual is a woman even before SRS, that's fine. I agree with you. She will not be interested in presenting as a man, ever. She also will not like to use her penis. And, she represents a very small segment of all the people who fit under the transgender umbrella. There are a great deal more CDs than there are TSs.

Would you be interested in a transsexual after she's had SRS? Most admirer's aren't, if you take the time to read the accounts in our transsexual section. Post-op TSs get dropped like hot potatoes. Apparently. And on a more personal note, if you're interested in women, why are you on a site filled with male-identified CDs, and even then, why aren't you posting your advances in the TS section where the members do identify as women and at least some of them are post-op?

JulieK1980

01-18-2012, 08:24 PM

A persons gender is female brain or male brain. Not their private parts.

There is a difference between biologic gender and physical gender however, it isn't quite as black and white as you'd like.

Badtranny

01-18-2012, 09:35 PM

What about men who have genetic defect and born with no penis or testes. does that make him a woman?

Hmmmmm time for a lesson in "the exception proves the rule".

I would agree that a penis or vagina doesn't necessarily indicate a male or female identity. I'd like to see some bigot tell Buck Angel to his face that he's not a man, though he has indeed retained his vagina for whatever reason.

But TS and Intersex people are the EXCEPTION to the norm. Their percentages are extremely tiny when compared to the whole of the population. How do we know they are an exception? Well, if you don't know what we would call a person born with none or ambiguous sex organs, (I don't either) let's start with an easier one. What would you call someone born with a penis? They are an infant so you don't know a thing about how they identify. All you know is they are a perfectly formed ...what? You only have two choices.

Now lets say this person grows up to be one of the extremely few people who's internal gender markers don't match their external ones. Then what would you call them? they would be a trans ...what? I know we like to pretend that everything is some kind of continuum but physical gender is pretty much an either or proposition. Identity is and can be very fluid, but we either have a penis or we don't. Babies are gender identified by that one little thing. CD and TS are identified by MtF or FtM. There are only two choices.

The exception is Intersex and that is so rare that the very fact that we don't know how to classify them, is what proves the gender binary.