Referring to your Fem persona in the third person.

[Ashley S]

Hi everyone. I just wanted to start a little discussion about something that I see brought up fairly frequently. Referencing your fem persona in third-person, or referring to yourself/your personality as two separate people with separate interests. I understand that everyone's experiences are different, and people deal with things differently, so I was hoping to get some input on this. I'm not sure if this is one of those overly-covered topics, but I couldn't find anything with the search.

So here goes. It seems to me like it completely goes against the idea of accepting yourself for who you are as a whole. It seems a little dangerous to me, allowing yourself to blame things on this fictional other person, instead of reconciling the fact that we're complex people with diverse interests.

Basically, if you use your created persona as a way of justifying desires and actions that you aren't comfortable with, doesn't that run the risk of getting out of control and creating actual multiple personalities?

It this just an evasive coping mechanism, or is this actually a healthy way of dealing with transgenderism? I worry that it may do more harm than good.

I'd love to hear opinions and open a general discussion on this. I'm very curious.

Thanks for reading my musings :D

[Julogden]

I agree, Ashley. I tend to feel that we all should come to terms with our feminine aspect being part of us rather than a separate entity.

Carol

[SweetPea_GG]

I've noticed that too and when I have thought about it in the past when reading posts etc the thing that sticks out in my kind is multipul personality disorder but it's just what comes to mind when I read some responses on here

[Persephone]

I think it is more often a convenient way of describing something that doesn't have normal nouns in every day language. It is easier to refer to your female self by name than any other method of description of yourself in different modes of dress and expression.

Agree. We lack the language to readily describe the situation otherwise. Referring to ourselves in a manner consistent with society's conventions, two names and references to "her" and "him," provides the most convenient hook upon which to hang their understanding and expectations. It makes things simple.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Rachel Flowers]

Hi Ashley

I agree that if you start to dissociate from the other side of your personality while you're in each mode, that is indeed unhealthy and obviously shows signs of Dissociative Personality Disorder. They stopped calling it Multiple Personality Disorder a long time ago when it became clear that everyone has multiple personalities.

Even the act of adopting a female name is part of this process, but I'm very aware that Rachel is a part of me that's there when I'm in boy mode just as much as when I'm wearing a dress and heels, and my male side is there too. She's just playing catch-up with him, who's had free reign to express himself in all the train sets and rock bands and model planes and stuff for the last 40 years. They're both together here inside me. Mrs F says the same- she doesn't see me as sometimes a girl, sometimes a boy, there's bits of both there all the time and that's what drew her to me all those years ago.

Keep on musing!


it's just what comes to mind when I read some responses on here

It must be statically likely that some people on here are to some extent dissociating, but we've got to remember that this is for most of us a place where we can socialise that part of our personality that has had to be repressed for much of our lives, and added to that you've got the "online effect", so you're going to see exaggerated expressions of how people actually feel and act in their real lives.

[Laura912]

First the professional answer. This is not multiple personality disorder. Now, the personal response. Allowing the personna Laura to exist let's there be some relief from all the fears, stresses, and conflicts associated, at least for me, with a GM who loves dressing. Being able to sign "Laura" to the first post on this website was one of the most serene times of my life. It does not appear that others use their alter ego to deny that part of them but instead to inculcate it into their life and the lives of others involved with them. How the fem self is viewed may reflect the why of dressing.
Laura

[suzy1]

I've noticed that too and when I have thought about it in the past when reading posts etc the thing that sticks out in my kind is multipul personality disorder but it's just what comes to mind when I read some responses on here


I agree Sweetpea.

I do have a multiple personality disorder. The only thing is I do not see it as a disorder. I see it as me being me, being who I am. And being perfectly normal.


Ashley, accepting Suzy is accepting me as a whole! I’m not creating a persona.
That’s not a little dangerous, that’s healthy!

SUZY

[Ashley S]

Just to expand on my original thought, I'm thinking more about the people who tell it to themselves. It's one thing to use it as an easy metaphor in communication, but it seems like an entirely different situation when a person starts using that explanation to justify their own internal conflicts.

[Lorileah]

The way the world is right now, you have to separate your personas. It would be very strange t be talking to someone as a male and refer to yourself as a female (TS' excluded). However, when I am in my feminine mode, my male persona is referred to as "my other half" or my male self". While when I am in male mode, Lori gets named by name. When the world accepts us as we are, then Lori will be the persona that is seen more frequently.

[Cheryl T]

I don't blame anything on anyone.

I am always Cheryl. It's just that others don't always get to see her.

I've accepted this as a very big part of ME! I am who I am.

[Ashley S]

I agree Sweetpea.

I do have a multiple personality disorder. The only thing is I do not see it as a disorder. I see it as me being me, being who I am. And being perfectly normal.


Ashley, accepting Suzy is accepting me as a whole! I’m not creating a persona.
That’s not a little dangerous, that’s healthy!

SUZY

So then, I see your feelings an example of two personalities successfully integrating.

My follow-up question would then be (if this isn't too personal): Did you always feel that you were composed of multiple personalities, or was Suzy created later as a means of reconciling internal conflict, or is Suzy just an easy way to express the concept of duality?

Personally, I don't feel that I'm Ashley. Ashley doesn't exist. It's just a screen-name that I use for some anonymity on the internet, and nobody, my self included refers to me as Ashley, except for here, because it's my screen name.

Also, I want express that I never intended this discussion to sound accusing. I'm just very curious, because it's something that I've never identified with, so I just wanted an objective discussion, to hear some opinions, and expand my knowledge base.

I'm just looking for input as to why some people view themselves as two entities, while others see themselves as a singular entity. My impression is that it's unhealthy to view yourself as split or divided.

[Miranda-E]

Many Cd are just flat out terrorfied of themselves. Its easier to shift ideas and feelings to a separate aspect than it is to say "I" or "Me". Same thing with the pink fog nonsense.

[suzy1]

So then, I see your feelings an example of two personalities successfully integrating.

My follow-up question would then be (if this isn't too personal): Did you always feel that you were composed of multiple personalities, or was Suzy created later as a means of reconciling internal conflict, or is Suzy just an easy way to express the concept of duality?

Personally, I don't feel that I'm Ashley. Ashley doesn't exist. It's just a screen-name that I use for some anonymity on the internet, and nobody, my self included refers to me as Ashley, except for here, because it's my screen name.

Also, I want express that I never intended this discussion to sound accusing. I'm just very curious, because it's something that I've never identified with, so I just wanted an objective discussion, to hear some opinions, and expand my knowledge base.

I'm just looking for input as to why some people view themselves as two entities, while others see themselves as a singular entity. My impression is that it's unhealthy to view yourself as split or divided.



Hi Ashley.

About your questions. First I have never had any conflicts to reconcile. I am just happy to be me.
Saying that having a split personality is always unhealthy would be nonsense. [Unless one of them is an axe murderer]

Your right when you said an example of two personalities successfully integrating.
But having said that I am not certain I do have two personalities, just two lives if that makes sense. Doing man things and doing girl things.

But Suzy is apart of me, a very nice part of me. I did not create her.

SUZY

[Sally24]

The third person thing is fairly common. For those of us that aren't full time and not out to everyone it is a convenience when out in public and talking. My wife and I developed it early on when shopping...."Do you think this would fit Sally? With some people it may indicate a deeper internal divide but I think with most people it is just a convention that makes the discussion a little less contorted.

[Ashley S]

Hi Ashley.

About your questions. First I have never had any conflicts to reconcile. I am just happy to be me.
Saying that having a split personality is always unhealthy would be nonsense. [Unless one of them is an axe murderer]

Your right when you said an example of two personalities successfully integrating.
But having said that I am not certain I do have two personalities, just two lives if that makes sense. Doing man things and doing girl things.

But Suzy is apart of me, a very nice part of me. I did not create her.

SUZY

I think that's getting to the heart of what I was trying to ask. For example, I have just as many feminine desires and tendencies as anyone here, and they ebb and flow, like many have stated before. That being said, I see my own feminine expression as duality or diversity of a single personality.

My original thoughts were very focused on the internal conflict thing.

I am wondering how common it is for people with strong internal conflicts to create this alter ego that they could disassociate with, and whether that was healthy and effective.

I'm fascinated by this discussion by the way, thanks for everyone's input.
I don't know much about this stuff, and only have my own feelings and impressions to go on. I know that this is a subjective topic, and there is no right or wrong, so I'm grateful for everyone's thoughts and feelings, because my point-of-view is just one of millions.

[Ashley S]

The third person thing is fairly common. For those of us that aren't full time and not out to everyone it is a convenience when out in public and talking. My wife and I developed it early on when shopping...."Do you think this would fit Sally? With some people it may indicate a deeper internal divide but I think with most people it is just a convention that makes the discussion a little less contorted.

I can definitely relate, just because it's easier to sign off posts with "Ashley" as opposed to "The guy who refers to himself as Ashley for internet anonymity"
My personal feelings on it (For example) are that it would make me uncomfortable for someone to refer to my fem clothes as Ashley's clothes. Because for me, they're my clothes, and there is no Ashley. Ashley is just a nickname or handle. I don't know if that makes sense...

[david]

ashley to start regards to the question refering to ones self in the third -person does not mean that she does not exist when in fact she lives in side of yourself and having come to terms with this fact it makes life a lot easier to deal with.when people who are aware of the fact that i am a trans woman they accept that my name is in fact female and do not make any further reference to my gender which is in fact male.I live with my female id inside and i am glad that this is making my life so much easier to deal with knowing that i will alwas have her with me for the rest of my life. davinaxx

[Shananigans]

I agree, it's weird...but, I am totally guilty of it. What is really weird is that my SO and I will say we need "Cami time." Or, I'll say that Cami needs to go out with me soon.

Like wtf...it's the same person...

But, it's easier to say than, "Hey, you should put on your hair and makeup and let's go out." Or, "I need some time alone with you where you are dressed in a more feminine manner." lol

I swear that we don't have multiple personalities....that we know of. ;)

However, I do agree it's pretty weird. Even to people that my SO is "out" to do not know that he has a separate female name. It's a hard thing to explain and would get into the topics of him being TG...and, the two of us can't even figure out what it means for my SO, so it's definitely not a hurdle we can cross with the outside world yet.

What we do know is that my SO has a need to have both male and female time. It's almost like he has a need to express two genders and two very different people. I don't think he's crazy, I just think he's complicated and falls somewhere different on the gender spectrum. We both do. And, until we can better explain ourselves, it will have to be "Cami time." Does that sound creepy and strange? Yeah, it does...we know this. But, we only say these things to each other and on this forum. We aren't worried about judgements from each other...and, afte reading the sh*t people say on here, we aren't too worried about judgements we might receive here.

I feel like that is fairly accepting of the situation, don't you? Lol

[AllieSF]

I occasionally refer to my female mode using my feminine name (a modification of my real legal male name). I do that for convenience and when I get tired of saying "in my female mode". I selected a female name because when I just started it seemed to be the correct thing to do if I was going to dress up as a women for whatever reason. Everyone else was doing it too. I also planned on going out and now to me it would really sound bad to be called by my male name while dressed as a woman. I don't suffer any identity disorder, or think that I have two personalities. I am me. I am a male and I like to dress as a female.

For those that seem to always refer to their other side in the third person, I really don't know why they do that. Is it because it sounds good, cute or cool to them? It makes me remember a Seinfeld episode where a guy always refers to himself in the third person, which becomes one of the many sub-stories in that episode. What I really think is that a lot of people have a lot of trouble of just accepting who they are and what they like to do. When that happens, they want to analyze it way too much to maybe find a reason to justify their thoughts and behaviors. I believe that you do not have to justify anything. It is what it is. Go with it, enjoy it and try to control it. Life and happiness becomes so much easier when that simple approach is taken. Try it, you just may like it.

[Erica Thorn]

When I'm home with my GF or just alone with her anywhere Esme and me is the same ofc. but when we're out shopping and she spots some nice shoes it's just easier to go "Oh do you think Esme would like these" since I'm closeted! :D
That might be one reason to use it, but why you should do it here in the forum is a wild guess!

[ReineD]

Referencing your fem persona in third-person, or referring to yourself/your personality as two separate people with separate interests.

I brought this up in SweetPea's thread yesterday. I have referenced my SO's femme presentation by her feminine name just to differentiate between both modes of presentation ... (although I do my best now to say to him, "when you're in femme mode" instead of referring to her femme name as the third person who isn't even in the room).

But I DON'T understand CDers who say about themselves, "She likes to dance more than I do", or "She's a lot more outgoing than I am", or "She loves to do housework in a sexy maid's outfit", instead of "I like to dance more when I am dressed, or I feel more outgoing when I am dressed, or I find housework more palatable when I fantasize that I'm a sexy French maid". And the most worrisome of all, "She fantasizes about men but only when dressed".

But even if a CDer learns to stop referring to himself dressed as a third person, although I think I understand why a division in some personality attributes or preferences (sexual or otherwise) might come about, why would anyone be happy with a non-integrated life? Either someone likes to dance or they don't. Either they are outgoing, or they're not. Either they are bi or they're not.

Is is a question of enjoying the fantasy? Would it then stop being so special (hence the pink fog might disappear) ... if a CDer in guy mode felt he could do everything in guy mode that he has thus far not given himself permission to do, such as dance, flirt, be sexy, bake a cake, or whatever.

Or, is it safer somehow to keep things at the fantasy level, as if it might progress farther than feels comfortable if all these preferences and attributes are integrated into the male self?

Does anyone have any insight?

[carhill2mn]

I primarily use the "third person" form to indicate how I was presenting at the time.

[suzy1]

Does anyone have any insight?[/QUOTE]



Nobody can expect to understand all other people even if they are as intuitive and intelligent as you Reine. Even you have your limits! :strugglin

Sometimes I don’t understand myself.
The thing is, I don’t care. I don’t need to.:happy:

SUZY

[Kristy_K]

I agree, Ashley. I tend to feel that we all should come to terms with our feminine aspect being part of us rather than a separate entity.

Carol

For me that was easier said than done. I was so a shame of CDing that it was a easier way for me to deal with. Or maybe it was just a way to pretend it wasn't really me dressing up.

Kristy

[Lucy_Bella]

I brought this up in SweetPea's thread yesterday. I have referenced my SO's femme presentation by her feminine name just to differentiate between both modes of presentation ... (although I do my best now to say to him, "when you're in femme mode" instead of referring to her femme name as the third person who isn't even in the room).

I can say that for myself , I do not refer to Lucy as a different person ( or as a she )... The name alone is a label for my habit ,I had no feminine name prior to re joining this site.. I think that you may want to keep the "Gender Spectrum " in mind and note that their are some here that wish to live full time as a woman..So maybe their male side is actually the personality role that is make believe ..


But I DON'T understand CDers who say about themselves, "She likes to dance more than I do", or "She's a lot more outgoing than I am", or "She loves to do housework in a sexy maid's outfit", instead of "I like to dance more when I am dressed, or I feel more outgoing when I am dressed, or I find housework more palatable when I fantasize that I'm a sexy French maid". And the most worrisome of all, "She fantasizes about men but only when dressed".

Once again , this would be their true Persona and not that of what Society has pushed them into..


But even if a CDer learns to stop referring to himself dressed as a third person, although I think I understand why a division in some personality attributes or preferences (sexual or otherwise) might come about, why would anyone be happy with a non-integrated life? Either someone likes to dance or they don't. Either they are outgoing, or they're not. Either they are bi or they're not.

Is is a question of enjoying the fantasy? Would it then stop being so special (hence the pink fog might disappear) ... if a CDer in guy mode felt he could do everything in guy mode that he has thus far not given himself permission to do, such as dance, flirt, be sexy, bake a cake, or whatever.

Or, is it safer somehow to keep things at the fantasy level, as if it might progress farther than feels comfortable if all these preferences and attributes are integrated into the male self?

Does anyone have any insight?

It might be easier to answer if those who do make that impression on you, hint to what their lifestyle truly is.. We can corral every CDer up into one group and paint us all the same color , say green ? Then let us tell you what our true colors really are ,mine could be LIME! Everybody see's them self's differently . So some here actually believe that because they are feeling Feminine while dressed it's being straight to be with a guy. I for one am not one of those ,but I see nothing wrong with it ..

[Julie Hall]

I have been thinking about this question for awhile. I have always thought referring to oneself in third person was more than a bit creepy. Be that person someone famous such or a member of this community.

I now understood where it is being used for identification purposes only - just to make life and writing posts a little simpler. It is disconcerting when a member refers to having different desires and feelings when dressed than when in drab. I can't fathom that. I usually refer to me, as me or some other pronoun. I don't use my first name in communication - except to sign off.

Whether dressed or in drab, what I do, how I feel or what I think is from me, not the personification of a feminine name "Julie". Now I am pretty new to this and the feelings engendered - without having to be closeted (except work). Perhaps this makes me unsuitable to venture an opinion on the subject, but I have to agree with SweetPea - it's a little like multiple personality or dissociative identity disorder. I don't think referring to oneself in the third person would qualify as being indicative of the disorder (comes from having a SO as a psychology major).

Just thought I'd add my two cents worth.

[Diana Bain]

just my opinion...could it be that their are two parts to us...no matter how we refer to ourselves?

[Ashley S]

I brought this up in SweetPea's thread yesterday. I have referenced my SO's femme presentation by her feminine name just to differentiate between both modes of presentation ... (although I do my best now to say to him, "when you're in femme mode" instead of referring to her femme name as the third person who isn't even in the room).

But I DON'T understand CDers who say about themselves, "She likes to dance more than I do", or "She's a lot more outgoing than I am", or "She loves to do housework in a sexy maid's outfit", instead of "I like to dance more when I am dressed, or I feel more outgoing when I am dressed, or I find housework more palatable when I fantasize that I'm a sexy French maid". And the most worrisome of all, "She fantasizes about men but only when dressed".

But even if a CDer learns to stop referring to himself dressed as a third person, although I think I understand why a division in some personality attributes or preferences (sexual or otherwise) might come about, why would anyone be happy with a non-integrated life? Either someone likes to dance or they don't. Either they are outgoing, or they're not. Either they are bi or they're not.

Is is a question of enjoying the fantasy? Would it then stop being so special (hence the pink fog might disappear) ... if a CDer in guy mode felt he could do everything in guy mode that he has thus far not given himself permission to do, such as dance, flirt, be sexy, bake a cake, or whatever.

Or, is it safer somehow to keep things at the fantasy level, as if it might progress farther than feels comfortable if all these preferences and attributes are integrated into the male self?

Does anyone have any insight?

This is pretty much exactly what I was driving at with my original post, with a little added food for thought.


just my opinion...could it be that their are two parts to us...no matter how we refer to ourselves?

Just to clarify, the point of my original post was nothing to do with the number of parts that make up a whole. I was speaking of the people who seem to view their personae as belonging to totally separate people, as ReineD also stated. We all contain many more than two parts, there's literally hundreds of parts, physically and mentally, that work together to make up who we are as individuals. The point I was trying to make is how to some people, it seems that these aren't parts of ONE person, their viewed as parts of TWO different people.

ReineD reiterated my point perfectly with this. (Two separate entities, not just parts of a whole.)

But I DON'T understand CDers who say about themselves, "She likes to dance more than I do", or "She's a lot more outgoing than I am", or "She loves to do housework in a sexy maid's outfit", instead of "I like to dance more when I am dressed, or I feel more outgoing when I am dressed, or I find housework more palatable when I fantasize that I'm a sexy French maid".

[Acastina]

I think it is more often a convenient way of describing something that doesn't have normal nouns in every day language. It is easier to refer to your female self by name than any other method of description of yourself in different modes of dress and expression.

Bingo! It's shorthand for what would otherwise be a somewhat convoluted way of referring to oneself.

[PretzelGirl]

Sue says that it is just literary license so Sue can get across what part of Sue Sue is talking about. (Sally sells seashells by the seashore).

[Karren H]

Karren thinks she doesn't do that.. I think she lies a lot!

[stacycoral]

Agree. We lack the language to readily describe the situation otherwise. Referring to ourselves in a manner consistent with society's conventions, two names and references to "her" and "him," provides the most convenient hook upon which to hang their understanding and expectations. It makes things simple.

Hugs,
Persephone.


I think it is more often a convenient way of describing something that doesn't have normal nouns in every day language. It is easier to refer to your female self by name than any other method of description of yourself in different modes of dress and expression.

there has been so great answers to this question, i would agree with these ladies, Makes it simple your right, i can be Stacy and my maleself, It is easier when talking to my SO About i need to be female tonight.