which bathroom??

[paulaprimo]

:heehee: i hope this doesn't sound dumb!! but since i'm still in the closet with the door cracked open a little, for those of you that go out into public, which bathroom do you use?? :devil: i think i would be more afraid to use the mens room. i'm not even sure if there are any legal laws about this. the last thing i want is to be arrested for using the ladies room and then get embarrassed and humiliated.:eek: i do hope to venture out soon! any thoughts??

[linda allen]

I have found one porta pottie in a public park in town. It's "unisex". I've been to it a couple times. I wouldn't consider the men's restroom except on halloween night and I'm not confident enough to walk into a ladies rest room if there are people around or inside it. There's a park I may visit soon and it has public restrooms, male and female. If I have the need, and if nobody is around, I will use the ladies restroom and see how it goes.

Some stores, malls, and many Walmarts have "family" restrooms that lock so you would be the only one in there. A mall wouldn't be bad (none around here have the family restrooms), but walking to the back of a Walmart to use the restroom might take more nerve than I have at this point.

[kerrianne]

As for many of us and this topic has been visited 100s of times.In NYC you may use the restroom of the gender you are expressing...most other places ie:vegas has the same policy. If you do use the ladies room which I do you need to remember to sit down while doing your business and exit as quickly as you can. Afterall women have been known to use mens rooms at venues.

[ChristineM]

Once at a movie theater, once at an Applebee's. Both times I was the only one in the restroom. If I'm out and about and need to go, I will use the ladies. I think I'd pee my panties before I go into the Men's room.

And in Texas, it is illegal to use a restroom not intended for your gender[1].

[1]No, I won't argue what that means, you know what it means.

[Eryn]

Paula, this is one of the Eternal Questions.

My philosophy is that you don't give anyone reason to notice or worry about which restroom you use. You use the restroom of the gender you are presenting, but you don't loiter there longer than you need to in order to do your business, wash your hands, and exit. It's best to use the restroom right before you intend to leave an establishment. If some cretin takes offense he or she can argue with your back as you walk out the door.

[joank]

As for many of us and this topic has been visited 100s of times.In NYC you may use the restroom of the gender you are expressing...most other places ie:vegas has the same policy. If you do use the ladies room which I do you need to remember to sit down while doing your business and exit as quickly as you can. Afterall women have been known to use mens rooms at venues.

California is also gender expression. I have used many and not had a problem. (Kohl's, Marie Calander's, K-Mart, and smaller venues.)

[JessHaust]

Texas is te same, as strange as that sounds! I'm getting more comfortable with the 'Ladies', but there is still the hesitation. Like everything CD, its best in numbers.

[Eryn]

Like everything CD, its best in numbers.

Not always. While I enjoy organized CD activities, the chance of being made goes up with the square of the number of CDers present. By myself, I have a pretty fair chance of being perceived simply as a tall woman.

OTOH, some uppity boyfriend will usually think twice before confronting a half-dozen 6'+ CDers

[Lucy Furr]

I use the restroom for the gender I'm dressed as. If you're dressed but wearing a beard, I might consider using the men's room.

[Shananigans]

If you are presenting as a woman, use the women's restroom. But, put the seat back down if you choose not to sit...because, I would be the girl coming in behind you and falling into the toilet.

[JessHaust]

Not always. While I enjoy organized CD activities, the chance of being made goes up with the square of the number of CDers present. By myself, I have a pretty fair chance of being perceived simply as a tall woman.

OTOH, some uppity boyfriend will usually think twice before confronting a half-dozen 6'+ CDers

Yea, I had not really thought of that, but I agree. I also believe I do better passing, really blending, on my own. But there are a few girls in my group that are quite pretty and I have no problems being with, it makes me the ugly girl in the group, but we still appear to be girls.

[Mikaela]

California is also gender expression. I have used many and not had a problem. (Kohl's, Marie Calander's, K-Mart, and smaller venues.)

Plenty of places over here in Los Angeles have stopped people I know from using the Ladies Room, including The Edison, Das Bunker, Bar Sinister and other clubs. Presentation is not the be all, end all to this question. Context and Situation make a significant impact on the right answer.

Keep in mind that a CD does not have the rights that someone transitioning may have and a CD shouldn't assume they have that right. Can it be done without making a scene and without calling attention to yourself? If not, then you will be seen as a pervert. If you are asked to not do it, you should comply. And don't lie about being a TS.

[Karen__Starr]

I work as a male but dress in between sexes and use the male restrooms. There have been a handful of times when I exit a stall with men in there who I do not know (there are between 800 to 1000 employees) and will look at me then I am guess they are thinking a) what is this female doing in here b) is this the mens room?

When out in public I use the female restrooms roughly 80 percent of the time, as others have mentioned, go in, act normal, do what I need to and head out.

Sine I am always tucked I never use a urinal bit always use a stall

[RenneB]

First off Paula, I haven't been out away from the house long enough for the fluids to run through me... LOL. However, to minimize the 'issue' I'd use the family rest rooms. Until someone tells you as your heading into the men's room, "hey ma'am, that's the men's room", I'd stick with scouting out the stores ahead of time and make sure you know which ones have family restrooms.....

Then again, I suppose you can always pull over and run into the woods like a guy, I guess..... LOL.

Renne.....

[NathalieX66]

I live in New Jersey, and here it's protected by state law that you can use which ever restroom in the gender you present yourself in.

[Vickie_CDTV]

The best answer for those who don't pass: If you can find one, use the single user (one person at a time in there with a locking door) bathroom!

And since you are in NY, I believe it is still illegal for you to use the 'wrong' bathroom on state owned property.

[DanaR]

If you are presenting as a woman, use the women's restroom. But, put the seat back down if you choose not to sit...because, I would be the girl coming in behind you and falling into the toilet.

That's funny, I liked that.

A lot of places have family bathrooms; which would be an excellent choice. I will use the women's restroom, but it's best to go in do your business and leave. The one scary thing, for me, is if there are kids around. I've heard where a father was waiting outside of the restroom for his daughter and a TG person came out of the restroom. Situations like this can go bad. I don't want anyone thinking about me having any bad ideas about kids. Even though you did nothing wrong, just having to deal with an unpleasant situation would be something that would like to avoid.

[StephanieDragg]

Be careful...check the laws for where you live... in some states you must use the bathroom of the sex that you represent on your license, here in Michigan, by law I am supposed to used the mens room, however many places have allowed me to use the ladies room... (I asked if they were comfortable with that)

[Eryn]

Plenty of places over here in Los Angeles have stopped people I know from using the Ladies Room....Keep in mind that a CD does not have the rights that someone transitioning may have and a CD shouldn't assume they have that right.

That is not correct. California law does not make a distinction in this regard. The terms used are "gender identity and expression" which encompasses both the CD and TS groups.

[Danni Bear]

If you are presenting as a woman, use the women's restroom. But, put the seat back down if you choose not to sit...because, I would be the girl coming in behind you and falling into the toilet.

you and me both Shannon

Danni

[ReineD]

Many of the places that my SO goes to have a one person bathroom designated Female, and this is what she prefers to use. You'd be surprised at how many restaurants have such bathrooms. My SO does make a point to know how the restroom facilities are configured wherever she goes, and if there is no other choice than to use a well populated women's bathroom (such as in the main part of a mall), it is not a place that she will use all that often. She prefers to take care of business before we get there, and she won't drink a huge amount of liquid while she's out.

We tend to go to several places when we are out, and so it isn't that difficult to time things so that she can use a bathroom that she feels comfortable in. Chances are that 95% of the time no one will say anything (if there are other women present in a larger restroom), but my SO is a cautious sort who feels more comfortable not chancing that someone will say something if she is read.

When we are at TG safe places such as GLBT clubs, bars, or events, she feels no qualms about using the women's bathroom even when there are women in there.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Use only womens & being a woman i cant use the other what's its, a sit only detail.

...noeleena...

[paulaprimo]

thank you all very much for your input, very helpful...i love a good sense of humor, and i'm still laughing. why is there no "LIKE" button for some of these comments!!
i'm sure this topic has been brought up 100's of times as new members come in, and as a new member myself, i apoligize for what seems a boring question to you, because it is a major concern for me. as vickie pointed out, it might be illegal where i am, on state owned property!

[Vickie_CDTV]

I forgot to mention, one can find a list of safe single user restrooms in one's area at safe2pee.org, isn't technology wonderful?

[Danni Bear]

womens 999 imes outt of a thousand

but then again will use mens if line too long at womens. (they will just have to get used to it) most women will

Danni

[Courtney_Glenn]

I'm convinced that I pass, so I use the ladies room. and I already have a plan if the establishment questions my gender. I will act incredibly insulted and leave the place crying. This strategy is way more affective when you have female friends around you to hug you on the way out. lol, I'm a dork.

[linda allen]

I use the restroom for the gender I'm dressed as. If you're dressed but wearing a beard, I might consider using the men's room.

Since that has been a hot topic lately, I was going to post pretty much the same thing. You're presenting somewhere in between and have no good place to go unless there's a unisex or "family" restroom.


I forgot to mention, one can find a list of safe single user restrooms in one's area at safe2pee.org, isn't technology wonderful?

The information there is pretty sparse, at least for my area. There are more available restrooms than what are shown. And at least one mentioned was inaccurate.

It's a good idea though.

[Cheryl T]

As the saying goes..."When in Rome...".
I ALWAYS use the ladies room when I'm out dressed. I would prefer to suffer the wrath of a woman with small children than the ire of a testosterone overloaded macho guy who is homophobic.
Women seem to me to be much more tolerant in this case. I was in one restroom and I kept hearing the air dryer going off and all this giggling. It was a lady with about 3 small girls who kept taking turns under the dryer having it blow their long hair about. After washing my hands (I hoped they would leave by then) I went to the dryer. The lady looked at me and told the girls to "Let the lady use the dryer girls". I just smiled, dried my hands and left. The girls of course went back to the dryer, giggling again all the time.
I won't stand in line to wait for the restroom, but I will only use the ladies room if I'm out.

If you are concerned, then look for someplace like a McDonald's or some stores in the malls that have single occupancy restrooms. Also many now have the "family" restrooms with changing tables and such so that either parent can take a child in.

[eluuzion]

http://www.hrc.org/laws-and-legislation/state/c/new-york
http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/maps-of-state-laws-policies
http://www.hrc.org/search/results/YmF0aHJvb20gYWNjZXNz

:hugs:
:love:

[Sara Jessica]

Keep in mind that a CD does not have the rights that someone transitioning may have and a CD shouldn't assume they have that right.

Not necessarily true to the best of my knowledge. Besides, how is the gender police to know whether one who is read as trans is a TS, CD or somewhere in-between???

For the first time ever, I saw comments elsewhere in these pages to suggest that if one is not full-time (read: Transitioning), then they should not have any right to use the women's restroom. Aside from finding such commentary appalling, I go back to my point above, how is one to know where we individually stand with respect to trans-status????


If you are asked to not do it, you should comply.

This is so true. Best not to make a scene. Simply leave and find somewhere else to go.

[Mikaela]

@Eryn & Sara

I can't find the actual law, but assuming you are correct, what differentiates a man in a kilt, a man in a garish CDed halloween costume, and a crossdresser expressing their female side to the law? (and unfortunately, even a TS pre-treatment of any sort) Expression seems like such a BS term. I can understand it is an over generalization of the TG spectrum to encompass everyone (or as Sara called it, our trans status), but when are so many things encompassed that it loses it's relevancy & accuracy?

And let's keep in mind that in most cases, these laws are specific to government places, public schools, and the other tax-supported like, not the club or restaurants or other private establishments. The laws for them usually just say that there needs to be equal facilities for men and women. If someone really wants you out of the establishment or wants to make a scene, your rights don't help the situation as it is happening, especially on a full bladder. Although the OP is not here in SoCal, it's obvious that even when you may have a right, it doesn't help in the situation.

As much as some of us want to claim 'passing doesn't matter', this is obviously a time when it does.

It won't be a question for the gender police. You'd either get someone say something in line at a club and get security (who would stop you before you go - which I've seen at Bar Sin even though I was in there earlier, or detain you when you get out), or someone will make a scene that a guy is in the bathroom. You might be asked to not use it again, you might be thrown out, or if someone was complaining that you were being lewd, it could escalate. If you have no med or psych papers, identification, or what-have-you to justify where you are if a scene is made, and you are not an actual TS with that sort of legal backing, you are more than welcome to have the ACLU get you out of the men's jail and try to make a case of it.

And maybe lying to a rent a cop is one thing (I'm a TS! -and then skedaddle), but lying to a cop is another. Again, context and situation.

Me? I'll minimize fluid intake, go before I leave, and make the decision on a case by case basis. (And yes, I've used the ladies room in non-TG places, sit down, seat down, etc). I just disagree with the blanket statements given to the OP.

[Shananigans]

This thread scares me a little at some of the responses and I'm not even a CD.

Have people actually stopped you from going into a bathroom when you are presenting as a woman? Seriously?

I mean, most guys I know piss off of balconies. I think most women would clap their hands because there's now a toilet involved

Also, most women apparently can't piss in a toilet without getting urine all over the seat...they also can't clean the seat when they are done wizzing all over it. So, I don't know why we'd all be in a knot at you using the restroom as long as you can get it in the can and clean up when you're done.

It's just a bathroom.

[Mikaela]

Shan, me? No. But I can name three people I personally know who have. In fact, here is a FB post of one of them from NYE.

"Very disappointed at the night club DAZ BUNKER, http://www.facebook.com/DasBunkerLA, they are NOT transgender friendly. The security guy pull me out of the girls bathroom and told me I have to use the man's bathroom. I'll never go back to that place."

And in the comments to that one, the gal I mentioned who was stopped the night we were at Bar Sinister in Hollywood posted this:

"That's what happened to me at Bar Sin, although I hadn't gone into the bathroom yet. The bouncer questioned me as I was waiting in line and said I had to use the men's bathroom. Luckily I found out that there are better bathrooms next door at Boardners."

[Boardners is connected to the club by a door, and they have single use bathrooms. That's where I was when I was told by a GG that she wished she was as tall as me in this post: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?161526 ]

The third is someone I know who had problems at The Edison, a kinda expensive steampunkish victorian bar, but I've never been there.

[Shananigans]

Soooo...the problems are with security at bars/clubs and not the GGs?

I find that a bit less surprising.

[Mikaela]

That night, it was a 'TG' invasion of sorts. I had passed well enough, but when I was in a stall earlier that night, I overheard one of the girls complain that another non passable CD had just left. It wouldn't surprise me if a GG had alerted security to it and my friend in line was the one who caught the guff. Then again, maybe I was the one that caused it.

[Jilmac]

I will always use the ladies room when dressed. One very important thing to remember if you decide to venture into the feminine domain, ALWAYS SIT while doing your business, if there is anybody using the stall next to you, the position of your feet could be a dead giveaway if they're pointed in the wrong direction, which could lead to confrontation. Heed the advice from the other girls here and good luck.

[Paulette]

Mikaela, as a retire cop I can tell you that there is no law that prevents a CD from using the restroom to mach their presentation sex in California. In fact it is a civil right to be able to wear the clothes of the sex you presenting as and to use the facilities at all place both public and those places open to the private. I use the restroom that I am presenting as, and yes I will and have stood in line to use the ladies restroom. I go to normal places and events not just TG friendly events or venues and have always used the ladies room with no problem. Do I pass? I do not know for sure I do know that I blend real well and I always dress age and venue appropriate. Most of the girls who have problems tend to dress a little different (think mini skirt and fish net stockings on a 60 year old) than the GG's at the same venue and thus draw attention to themselves. If yo dress as a teenager you had better be closer in age to your teens than to social security. People will see what you present and if you are presenting as a respectable lady that is what they will see and pay no other attention. Going into the ladies restroom is not a thrill event, it is to take care of a necessity.

[Mikaela]

Paulette, I suppose that's where the law versus the management/security of a venue differ. Neither of the two people I quoted were dressed in age or venue inappropriate clothes, both are 30-40yrs old. Neither of those two were doing it for a thrill. I know the person at the Edison was doing it for a 'thrill', but not a sexual one. That person (a CD) just has an obsession of being treated like a woman no matter what and wants a narcissistic point to be made.

And whether you pass or not, getting dragged out of a bathroom or line when that's how you are presenting, shows the issue, which is to say, its not necessarily a legal one.

[ReineD]

Another thing to consider is how sensitive some of us are to how others feel. Regardless of the various state laws, I believe my SO would feel uncomfortable is she knew that she made a GG in a bathroom feel uncomfortable. This is a stark reality of our times, even though no one will bring on the lynching mobs if a CD who presents according to the occasion and the venue should go into the ladies room.

It's a question of sensitivity vs. doggedly adhering to rights as an individual, and I feel the same way. An analogy would be going out with someone who is new in recovery from alcoholism. I could choose to order a bottle of wine and have at it, or simply order soda.

If an individual is TS then the world will just have to come to terms with it and of course she needs to use the ladies room unfettered. But if someone identifies as a guy, I admire him greatly for being sensitive enough to others who have a long way to go before they catch up to the members of this community in terms of a full understanding of gender non-conformity. I dare say it's a question of honor and conscience. And also, not everyone is on a mission to be an advocate for TG rights.

That said, it is dangerous for a CDer to go to the men's room, but luckily there are plenty of single user bathrooms around, and in a pinch I agree it is better to use a well-populated women's room than to soil one's panties. But if there is a choice between a single user facility and a well populated women's bathroom, I don't see anything wrong with choosing the single user facility if someone is not TS nor plans on being TS in the future.

One other thing I want to mention, and I suppose each person here would have to look into their own hearts to see if it fits for them: I think it is wrong to use the women's bathroom as a sort of sport. I can't tell you how many posts I've read where it seemed to be a preferred "fantasy" to be one of the girls in the women's bathroom, bonding with everyone and putting on lipstick together. :p

I remember one member a few years ago whose entire focus was about this. He would go to ladies' luncheons specifically to have the girly bathroom experiences. :rolleyes:

[Eryn]

I can't find the actual law, but assuming you are correct, what differentiates a man in a kilt, a man in a garish CDed halloween costume, and a crossdresser expressing their female side to the law? (and unfortunately, even a TS pre-treatment of any sort) Expression seems like such a BS term.

It's not hard to find. Google on "AB 887"

Regardless of how you feel about it, "gender identity and expression" are the words used in the law. "Gender identity" is how you perceive yourself and "gender expression" is how others perceive you. Hardly "BS terms" at all.

The bizarre examples that you conjure up do not reflect what is being asked in this thread. You ask what "differentiates" between various costumes and the answer is "nothing." If you identify that you are female, then you are, even if you are wearing (gasp!) pants!

Now, if one goes to places that require bouncers it isn't beyond the realm of probability that those bouncers might be ignorant of gender law. They'll throw their weight around as bouncers tend to do. I tend to stay away from places so dangerous that they have to hire muscle. I certainly won't allow them to define my civil rights.

[Launa]

Paula, this is one of the Eternal Questions.

My philosophy is that you don't give anyone reason to notice or worry about which restroom you use. You use the restroom of the gender you are presenting, but you don't loiter there longer than you need to in order to do your business, wash your hands, and exit. It's best to use the restroom right before you intend to leave an establishment. If some cretin takes offense he or she can argue with your back as you walk out the door.

I agree with this and its what I'm going to do when I go out. It will be quick into the can and quick out and I won't say to anybody, excuse me ladies are there any urinals in here?

[susangirl]

Always use the rest room that your dressed for. It's amazing how nice and clean some of the ladies bathrooms are. They have great full length mirrors also. I just love looking at myself all dressed up. You will to. Best of luck and kisses

[Beth Mays]

Satuarday was my very first time out.. and I did not mind at all wait'n in line to use the ladies room.

[kellytea59]

This comes up a lot .. In vegas the official line is use the Guys .. I have emails from the casinos .. But truth be know as long as you are not stupid or go some place with bathroom nazi's .. you will be fine using the ladies.

[kimdl93]

I always use the ladies room without hesitation. I have never had a problem of any kind.

[Shananigans]

I believe my SO and I will be using the ladies restroom while we are out and about...

I hope no one acts sh*tty about it, because I think it would crush my SO's perception of his femme self :(

[ReineD]

Shannanigan's post made me think of something else. There's a wide range of ages, body types, facial physiognomy, etc among CDers and let's face it, some blend in much better than others. I think this needs to be taken into consideration too, when it comes to a choice between using a Female single-user bathroom, vs. a Female multiple-user (and well attended) bathroom. :)

[Sandra]

Nigella has always used the ladies and never had any problems.

[jennifer24]

I do agree with you Paula, there should be a like button here. And for your question, if you gonna use the ladys room, do like everyboby here as said, go in do your business, quick hand wash and check in the mirror and get out..