Dubai Calling!

[Kaz]

I fly to Dubai tomorrow for a few days work. I know it is a muslim country and they have laws and no I am not planning to go out dressed (jail sentence apparently)! But I do fancy letting Kaz loose in my hotel room... any advice from anyone? It means I have to pack the gear (forms, make-up, clothes, etc..) so a heavier suitcase than otherwise! Or am I just mad?

[kimdl93]

I would hope you will be safe in the privacy of your hotel room. What a pain, tho! Wouldn't it be fun to enjoy a nice meal and a few drinks (at the hotel) in Kaz mode?

[Kaz]

SC... Recently did Germany all right! My first thought was... don't do it... then I thought, what the heck? If they check my suitcase... can I explain it? It is not illegal to cross-dress... just in public! It is linked to homosexuality which is also banned in public places. Actually the UAE are pretty tolerant... you can drink within allowed areas... hotels, bars, and your own home... It is public display that concerns them!

[ReineD]

Kaz, if you think you can refrain for a few days, I would.

http://www.asiaone.com/Travel/Tips/Story/A1Story20080718-77412.html

The sentence that disturbs me in this article is, "Dr Rima Sabban, a sociologist, said Emiratis were becoming frustrated with violations of local sensitivities." All it would take is a fire alarm, or a hotel maid inadvertently coming in to clean your room while you are dressed and then perhaps reporting it, to cause issues. Granted, you would only suffer a deportment, but if you have to go through the legal system you may have to stay there well beyond your stay just to deal with it, and that's not mentioning the emrassement with your family and employers?

Here's more on Dr. Sabban: http://www.dsg.ae/NEWSANDEVENTS/DSGNews.aspx?udt_755_param_detail=29

As to tolerance levels in general about the CDing in that part of the world, read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#Western_Asia

[suzy1]

Kaz, don’t do it. It’s not worth it. O.K.?
I am not asking you, I am telling you!


SUZY

[Megan72]

I am with everyone else...bad idea. The laws there are not like here. The UAE is "more" tolerant but that is pretty vague. I would hate to see you mixed up in something that could turn out very messy. Kelli

[JustWendy]

Kaz, this may seem like a growth step, but it sounds like it could be a dangerous misstep. I hope you'll reconsider. If not, we'll all be holding our breath until you're home again. The collective exhale after 3 days scares me a bit as well :worried:.

Wendy

[stacycoral]

Kaz, don’t do it. It’s not worth it. O.K.?
I am not asking you, I am telling you!


SUZY

Kaz, i with Suzy, we don't want to lose you.

[MichelleP]

I'm with the others - I wouldn't take the chance, Kaz.

Michelle

[Niya W]

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates — A Dubai appeals court on Sunday upheld a one-month prison sentence for a British couple convicted of kissing in a restaurant.
The pair landed in court after an Emirati woman complained about the public kiss, which the couple insisted was just a peck on the cheek.
That was for a freaking kiss. The would label you as homosexual and that my friend is some deep shit in that part of the world .

[Kaz]

Hmmmm maybe the photo opportunity maybe not worth it!? What would be the QUDOS of a shot of me dressed in Dubai? Hmmmm itching..! Why does NO make me think YES? Am I mad?

[Shiny]

DO NOT, cross-dress in any Arab/Muslim country! PERIOD!

It's the same as the old USSR! There, they would arrest and convict on grounds of mental illness which included shock treatments and strong drugs. And upon their conclusions a prison sentence may or may not follow. And you can imagine the implications of that!

I majored in graduate studies doing a lot of research and work on Middle Eastern studies and will start by saying that their code for living and their rules are both rigid and unviolable! They will not tolerate any abberation from a sociatial norm, especially where gender is involved. A man is a man and a woman is property, a second class citizen who for most of the at least recent past couldn't vote, couldn't show herself in public, couldn't go to school and had absolutely zero rights. By example, a woman convicted of adultry often died by public stoning!

Of course, behind closed doors the Arab people are much like us Westerners. They know all about the movies and music and trends but they just can't delve into such things in those repressive societies.

As far as cross-dressing goes, it's forbidden. And for visiting tourists who think they may want to vit the "casbah" in drag there's a list as long as your arm of charges that can be brought. From public indecency to being a spy! And never forget that wherever you go on this planet, once you leave the USA you are subject to the rules of the country you find yourself in. And with the state of the world today US citizens are seen as spoiled, arrogant and in need of being brought down a peg or two! So that's another strike against you.

Take some sound advice: If you are a crossdresser, as am I, Leave the clothing (heels, dresses, makeup and wigs) behind when you travel. They don't understand "gender expression." And don't worry, all your stuff will be waiting for you when you return!

[Kaz]

But there is always the sense of adventure! Why feel restricted when we can test boundaries? Sorry, just me! If I can get through immigration, that is fine, it is then just choice and judgement... getting back should be less problematical!

[Marleena]

Hmmmm maybe the photo opportunity maybe not worth it!? What would be the QUDOS of a shot of me dressed in Dubai? Hmmmm itching..! Why does NO make me think YES? Am I mad?

Uhoh I think we better start up a collection for your bail money and lawyer.:)

[JessHaust]

give it a rest until you get safely home.

[Anne2345]

Why does NO make me think YES? Am I mad?

Yes. Yes you are quite mad, in fact. But you are mad in a most loveable, adorable way. . . . .

Btw, don't do it . . . .

[Sammy777]

I would have to agree with the majority here and say Do Not do it.

But it seems you already made your decision to do it before even starting this thread.

So my question is - If you already decided what you are going to do then why ask peoples opinions?

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

Get a photo of you dressed in mini and high heels on top of one of those incredible buildings.
Like are you mad? What excuse do you give at the airport when they go through your luggage? Not worth the risk.

[Kaz]

OK.. rethinking! But what if....?

[Tara D. Rose]

Kaz, please don't do that. Once you arrive, your bags may be checked again, and then busted. There is a lot of heresay of what they will do, but who knows what will really happen? I wouldn't want to go there not even with girl clothes in bags. They may take offense to the way I walk or talk, or that I may say God bless you to someone, and would be considered an infedel, and just shot or stoned in the street, by radical extremist's. If you arrive and are found to be a cd, then you will be labled as gay, whether you are or not, it won't matter to them. According to thier beleifs, gays are not only to be killed, but to be torture killed.
My vote is not go.
L&R............Tara

[Sammy777]

OK.. rethinking! But what if....?

What if you pack a kilo of blow in your bag too.
Because doing that makes just as much sense as what you're still thinking of doing.

Get the pink fog out of your head, the panties out of the carry on and leave Kaz home on this one.

[AllieSF]

Kaz, just leave your forms at home and take the correct size balloons to fill up with water in your hotel. Do what you think is best and what risks you want to take. By the way, you are responsible for your own actions. Good luck and enjoy.

[StaceyJane]

I've crossdressed in some unusual place but I sure wouldn't take any chances in a foreign country.
I did spend a few days in Qatar once and I never thought of challenging anything over there.

P.S. Sex and the City 2 is on right now and that should be enough warning about Dubai.

[Kaz]

Hey.. I am talking some women's clothes in my suitcase... maybe forms... personal stimulator?

[karenlong]

im not sure i would with all their crazy laws, be terrible to get stuck there because of clothes

[Carole]

Use your time to visit the Souq Kaz, esp across the creek in Dubai side, wonderful costume jewellry shops, unless of course you can afford real gold then the main gold souq is in Deira (same side of the creek as the airport). Much safer than getting caught. Also the water taxis are an experience not to be missed.

[JohnH]

I say this man-to-man:

DON'T CROSSDRESS IN DUBAI! Don't even take the supplies.


SC... Recently did Germany all right!

You cannot compare a Moslem country to a western country.

If you absolutely must crossdress daily maybe it's time you refuse to take the trip, even to the point of resigning from your job.

John (Johanna)

[darla_g]

i just don't know if it is worth the trouble..... or the potential risk

[JessHaust]

Hey.. I am talking some women's clothes in my suitcase... maybe forms... personal stimulator?

Well, It's been a real pleasure almost getting to know you. Sad to see you go.....

[JulieK1980]

Having traveled through several countries in the Middle East, including Dubai, I can tell you it's definitely not worth the risk. Save it for when you get home, and just be thankful you aren't a crossdresser living in those countries. The UAE is liberal by Muslim standards, but that doesn't mean it's anything like living here. You'd probably have better luck carrying drugs there than woman's clothes.

[jillleanne]

Kaz, I am an International Tax Consultant( retired) and still have clients living in Dubai. I would strongly suggest you be extremely careful while in Dubai. I have a friend in Toronto who is post op tg who has worked/lived in Dubai for the past 3-4 years and is now back in Toronto. If you would like, pm me and I will give you her email addy. and you can discuss this with her. Let me just say, it would be in your best interest if you could just pass on the idea. Besides, Dubai is a wonderful place to explore and discover. It really is a magnificent place to work/visit/dine.

[taís]

:battingeyelashes: pink fog alert! :battingeyelashes:

ok, you can do it. but only if you use a burka! ^ ^
Kaz, the opportunity is alluring, but it's too much risk to take. remember it IS illegal, and you don't want to put yourself in trouble with the law in a foreign country. specially one with rigid societal norms. go and bring yourself back in safety. ;x

[ReineD]

Well, Kaz is in the UK so she's likely sleeping right now, and she did say she was leaving tomorrow.

I don't know if you'll see this before you go, Kaz, but I hope you'll also take some time to see the sites, experience local cuisine, take a water taxi, and shop for jewelry!! :)

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Good rule of thumb...When in Rome...yada, yada, yada.

[Monique L]

Hmmmm maybe the photo opportunity maybe not worth it!? What would be the QUDOS of a shot of me dressed in Dubai? Hmmmm itching..! Why does NO make me think YES? Am I mad?

You are starting to sound like my daughter :D. usually followed by a call several hours later with her needing help.

[Kaz]

Kaz doesn't sleep Reinne!


Dubai ...... thinking about..... brilliant posts...

[AmandaM]

Well, if you do, say hi to Abdul (read Bubba) when you hit the Arab prison, where you'll....be a hit.

[Nichola]

Crossdressing aside, I have friends working over there & it looks an amazing place on their photos:)

[ReineD]

Hmmmm maybe the photo opportunity maybe not worth it!? What would be the QUDOS of a shot of me dressed in Dubai? Hmmmm itching..! Why does NO make me think YES? Am I mad?

Is this why you want to do this? For the photo op, so you can add a Dubai pic to your collection, or post it here? :facepalm:

All along I thought it was because you simply needed to be yourself.

Twenty lashes with a wet noodle for you, and never mind the photo op! lol. Go and enjoy the sites instead! :)

... oh, and don't give anyone a peck on the cheek in public.

Is hugging allowed over there? :D

[Krista1985]

Dubai is a country in transit,

With dwindling oil receipts, it has become one of the few Emirates to seek an alternative source of income through heavy investment in tourism and construction. Some of the best and most cutting edge construction and hospitality companies are found there. And Civil Society is liberalizing at breakneck pace compared to it's regional neighbors. That being said, it is a nation with a tradition of Shari'a law, and rulings are most unpredictable. Unlike a western nations, which are pretty much 'law making machines,' in the UAE personal status law remains un-codified. So you could receive a slap on the wrist sentence for dressing up, or you could be locked away until your Embassy (UK?) pulls some strings to spring you. No bull. It all depends upon the judge you are put in front of if caught, and his training/background in Islamic Jurisprudence. Odds are the worst case scenario, if subjected to a random search at customs which turned up Kaz'a stuff, they could deny your entry into their country. All of this is incredibly unlikely, but with the stakes so high it may not be in your best interest to tempt fate.

Enjoy the sights, the world islands, the Burj Al Arab Hotel etc., but do so en-drab. The ME is one of the most CD unfriendly places on Earth.

[Krista1985]

Oh almost forgot!

If caught in your hotel room or at customs, you will also be black-listed in the Gulf region as a whole. No BS. No social security numbers, but plenty of security files on foreign nationals. Unlikely worst case scenario, but still... Food for thought.

[Lorileah]

Hmmmm maybe the photo opportunity maybe not worth it!? What would be the QUDOS of a shot of me dressed in Dubai? Hmmmm itching..! Why does NO make me think YES? Am I mad?

Three words....photoshop :) Take your photos without you in them...put you in later. Have you ever seen Midnight Express? Would be really hard to escape in heels

[Aeron]

Just leave her at home. She'll still be there when you get back.

[KaTanya]

Kaz, just reading your post a thought hit me: bodyforms, makeup, maybe a wig- sounds like you're planning on doing some serious espionage. Which I'm normally cool with, but customs in Dubai might not be so understanding.

Much as I hate to do so, since it's only a few days, you might just take a few days break. All will be well and waiting for you when you get home.

[ReineD]

Much as I hate to do so, since it's only a few days, you might just take a few days break. All will be well and waiting for you when you get home.

Yes, and besides ..........

172854

[eluuzion]

hiya Kaz,

A person has formulated the basic personality they will carry through their lifetime by the age of 5 years old. To understand how a person approaches the world, look at the world and his/her world at age 10.

When you go to another part of the world you are taking your logic into a place where you assume it applies, but often does not. This creates an opportunity gap that can make the unexpected a reality, that you might not even comprehend after you suffer the consequences of experiencing it.

Playing your games in somebody else’s playground is risky business, even for the best of players. But curiosity is also a powerful motivator. :heehee:

Just opinions and beliefs built from personal experience…:hugs:

HaveFun
:love:

[jennifer easton]

aaaahhh what the Hell go on do it!!! (Geeeeeze how dumb is this)

[Tara D. Rose]

Doing this and going to dubai and having such incriminating things in your baggage, is just too risky.I mean some of us like thrills and risk's and a little excitement, but this may, and or could be a one way street.
I have given it some thought. I aliken something like this to be like as though Tara were to get all dolled up and go to a biker bar at 1:30 am on a friday night, pull in the parking lot, and kick over all the bikes, and then walk inside and yell, hey all you M'fer's, I just kicked over all the POS harley's in the parking lot. All of you in here can kiss my panty clad a**. And then I throw my beer bottle against the wall and burst it, and then ask: who wants a peice of me????
Let me tell you, uh oh, uh oh, oh hell, even Chuck Norris or Obama could save me from that fallout.
Come on Kaz, live on the edge, like I do, but please use some "uncommon" sense. Don't take anything feminine to Dubai. Will we still hear from your next week?
L&R........................Tara
Good luck Girl.

Another thread: Do crossdressers have logical reasonable sense??


Do crossdressers pay the price of entrusting in others?

Do crossdressers really hate living?

[KaTanya]

Yes, and besides ..........

172854

:lol:

Sad. But. True.

[GingerLeigh]

forgeddaboudit. Dressing as a woman in a Muslim country like UAE is WAYY to risky. Do they stone people to death there? "THE ROCK" is not a jail over there....

[moondog]

Too risky, they put people in jail for kissing in public, so just imagine what they'll do to you if you get caught. Oh, and you have no privacy in your hotel room. What happens if a maid finds some panties, or your breast forms, while cleaning your room and then, like a good Muslim, reports you to the authorities?

[Ineke Vashon]

You probably already left. For the future, it's sobering to know that between the arriving airplane and customs and immigration you are not a free person. They can ask anything, question you endlessly, hold you, take your suitcase apart and even ask you to strip. For a few days I'd travel light and look forward to coming home.

In case you went as Kaz anyway, you might let us know when you've returned home safe.

Ineke

[Lorileah]

...get all dolled up and go to a biker bar at 1:30 am on a friday night, pull in the parking lot, and kick over all the bikes, and then walk inside and yell, hey all you M'fer's, I just kicked over all the POS harley's in the parking lot. All of you in here can kiss my panty clad a**. And then I throw my beer bottle against the wall and burst it, and then ask: who wants a peice of me????...

Wow now I know what I am doing Saturday night. I wonder where my mini skirt is. I think I will go commando too

[abigailf]

Quite the busy thread. I personally would take clothes with me, however I am not sure I would travel there dressed. I probably would try to talk to someone in the state department and consulates first.

My excuse if my bags were to be searched is they are my wife's clothes who is supposed to meet me here in a few days. I don't think I traveled with my forms then (I only had one set and didn't want to damage them), socks were my alternative.

I have gone to both Turkey and Egypt. Although I have not traveled there enfemme, I did pack clothes with me and dressed in my room. I did venture the hall, but only to get ice. I kept the door open with the slide bar so I wouldn't need the key. The last thing you need is to go to the front desk dressed because your key didn't work. There were surveillance camera's, but no one took any special note of me.

I had flown to Poland (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?149833-Trip-to-Poland-(Fearless-Flyer)&highlight=), Japan (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?165557-...yes-I-really-think-so...&highlight=)and Mexico (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?144675-My-Trip-To-Mexico&highlight=)enfemme without an incident. Not a single problem through customs and everything. Well, actually. Poland gave me a problem because they didn't think I was a man. I finally convinced them.

I suppose the more passable you are the less the risk of a random spotting. However, if you get carded for any reason and found out to be a man,then you will have a lot more trouble than you bargained for.

[dutch-anita]

everytime I have been to Dubai they checked my bags so don't even bring your stuff with you, leave them in the UK if you want to test yourself go to the arab parts of london or b'ham and see for yourself....

[NicoleScott]

When we travel abroad, we can't invoke the constitutional rights we have at home.

[docrobbysherry]

I think I may understand what Kaz was thinking and feeling. I get such an adrenaline rush when Sherry is out dressed. But, there's this "heart in my mouth" fear going on at the same time. And, I want maybe need, to get pics of Sherry out just so I can prove to others and MYSELF, that I did it!

But, Kaz, or anyone considering what she's planning, consider this: How many members here r from the Middle East? Or, ANY Muslim country for that matter? Finally, if u STILL think it would be COOL, see the movie "Midnite Express"!

[Marleena]

I have given it some thought. I aliken something like this to be like as though Tara were to get all dolled up and go to a biker bar at 1:30 am on a friday night, pull in the parking lot, and kick over all the bikes, and then walk inside and yell, hey all you M'fer's, I just kicked over all the POS harley's in the parking lot. All of you in here can kiss my panty clad a**. And then I throw my beer bottle against the wall and burst it, and then ask: who wants a peice of me????
Let me tell you, uh oh, uh oh, oh hell, even Chuck Norris or Obama could save me from that fallout.

Lol..Pee Wee Herman just popped into my mind... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BodXwAYeTfM

[Laura912]

What are your risks vs the benefits? Look closely at the possible and probable consequences of each action.
Laura

[Kathy Smith]

Oh dear! It's no use talking to Kaz, she's from Yorkshire! ;-)
(I leave it to the reader to check out the Wars of the Roses - I think we may have just about forgiven each other. LOL!)
I do hope she was sensible.

[karanne]

Oh dear! It's no use talking to Kaz, she's from Yorkshire! ;-)
(I leave it to the reader to check out the Wars of the Roses - I think we may have just about forgiven each other. LOL!)
I do hope she was sensible.
I admit I don't know that much English/UK history - there was something about gunpowder in November? Anyway, could you please clarify this for we befuddled Yanks?

[AKAMichelle]

My opinion would be to leave it at home. There are just some places not to carry stuff like that.

[kathie225]

Dressing up is not a good idea in Dubai. BTW there is a major difference between the folks in Dubai from the folks in Abu Dhabi. It seems folks in Dubai never watch the "Flintstones". while folks in Abu Dhabi do.

[Julogden]

Sounds like an amazingly bad idea to me. I urge you to just abstain for the short time you're there and leave the girl stuff at home, all of it. It's not worth the risk, IMO.

[Kathy Smith]

I admit I don't know that much English/UK history - there was something about gunpowder in November? Anyway, could you please clarify this for we befuddled Yanks?

LOL! I'll swap you. My knowledge of American history can be written on a rice grain. In 1/4" felt tip marker pen. ;-)

The Wars of the Roses started about 1455 (no, not at 5 to 3), between the great houses of York and Lancaster. (Now the county towns of Yorkshire and Lancashire if you hadn't guessed). We kept knocking the c**p out of each other, in civil war, on and off for the next 30 years or so. The heraldic symbols for these two houses were a red rose for Lancaster and a white rose for York, hence the name of the wars. Eventually royal marriage combined the two houses and now we only knock the c**p out of each other occasionally. We've all got lazy and the Pennines get in the way. :-)

Lots more sickening detail with dates and things here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_the_Roses

[Crysten]

Hey listen a hotel room is a hotel room. Take a trip to Ibiza....or Amsterdam....or London for that matter. At least even if caught you wont get thrown into prison. Dont do it, dont even bring the clothes with you. Its not worth it.

[Meg East]

Let's see you would have a suitcase full of bras, panties, dresses and be dressed as a man. Nothing odd here which could or would raise the suspicions of the border entry people. And once you are pulled into their "legal" system you wouldn't have the protections found in western societies. Due process is such a quaint idea found in the secular west. The rules and customs we have here are not theirs. Why take the chance. Sounds like a good way to disappear.

[karanne]

LOL! I'll swap you. My knowledge of American history can be written on a rice grain. In 1/4" felt tip marker pen. ;-)

The Wars of the Roses started about 1455 (no, not at 5 to 3), between the great houses of York and Lancaster. (Now the county towns of Yorkshire and Lancashire if you hadn't guessed). We kept knocking the c**p out of each other, in civil war, on and off for the next 30 years or so. The heraldic symbols for these two houses were a red rose for Lancaster and a white rose for York, hence the name of the wars. Eventually royal marriage combined the two houses and now we only knock the c**p out of each other occasionally. We've all got lazy and the Pennines get in the way. :-)

Lots more sickening detail with dates and things here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_the_Roses
So this was just one of a bunch of 'civil wars' you lot have had over the years? I guess you couldn't just do one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War) and call it done? There's twelve of them! (List: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Civil_Wars)

However, I'm willing to trade - fire away, MacDuff!

[DanaM64]

Hi Kaz & Everyone!
I understand where your coming from, and as mentioned a few times... when entering and exiting the Emirates whether via Dubai or Abu Dhabi they do indeed scan all luggage to include carry ons too! I've traveled there over a dozen times over the last 5 years and have had to open the bags for inspection a few times. They (customs) are always looking for something, whether it be drugs or electronics entering the country illegally. When I say electronics it's more job related than personal, unless you have 10 personal hard disks, then it might be complicated...

Minus the forms, I would say just pack down a few undergarments and then have a ball shopping at one of there many many malls... Sales galore too! When I was there just before xmas, I was glad I left my personal credit card at home! As it was I ended up with 4 new outfits and 2 pairs of shoes.. :)
As for shopping, there are plenty of mixed crowds in all departments so there won't be an issue rack searching.

One other thing to keep in mind is if you don't have a proxy, be careful of the websites you visit there as well... They do monitor "all" traffic, I happen to know this personally, due to it's my equipment that I install that they are using... sorry! As for the room security, as long as you have the secondary lock on, and the do not disturb sign hanging you won't have any issues. I would still secure in your suitcase everything when leaving the room.

If you were going in a few weeks we could have met up over there, I have another installation starting the 2nd or 3rd week of Feb...
Hope you have a great trip and enjoy the warmth! I know I'm looking forward to it!!
/Dana

[bobbie c]

kaz...no....kinda like ya around....your smile i guess

[Carole]

I guess we've had more civil wars because we've been around a bit longer Karanne. They occur every couple of hundred years or so, you'll be coming up to your second one soon so don't get too jealous. (Sorry for thread drift Kaz, hope you enjoyed Dubai, I loved trhe place, and that was back in the easrly 70's)

[drushin703]

Kaz:

On a stop over in the holy city of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, trying to meet up with my US navy ship which was ported in Ethiopia at the time, I can clearly
remember the list of restrictions my civilian escort gave to me. At the top of that list was to not drink or bath in the water in the hotel.But being 18,
and recalcitrant, I bathed and washed my hair anyway.As I recall I could not comb my hair for at least three weeks afterwards.So how to gonna
get up enough lather to shave your legs in hard water.......lol dana?
DO NOT dress, talk outloud about, walk, make any purchases, or for that matter even ruminate enfemme in any arabic or african country.Save your
crossdressing future, your health, your spirit and sanity and when you return, share your adventures with us....dana

[Ava Tryptyk]

As everyone else has said, don't do it. I know you want to make interesting posts, but you can come back here and just comment on Dubai itself, how you felt, what instances made you want to cross-dress, etc. It's simply too risky, you don't know if someone will barge into your hotel or if there are cameras, etc. Just know that after this little trip you can cross-dress all you want. Take pictures of the interesting parts of the city, take pictures of yourself en drab. Then later you can imagine yourself how you would be en femme.

[busker]

"he was caught, tortured, died"
well, that what Bugs Bunny said in his own way;

bu dah bu dah bu dah, that's all Fawkes.

Kaz, you want to turn Dubai into Goodbai, do you?

[Vickie_CDTV]

Given the current situation with Iran and the Strait of Hormuz and the fact war could erupt at any time, I am surprised they would send anyone over there right now. Anyone who would go over there is awfully brave, whether they dress or not (which I wouldn't risk as others have said.)

[Jorja]

Given the current situation with Iran and the Strait of Hormuz and the fact war could erupt at any time, I am surprised they would send anyone over there right now. Anyone who would go over there is awfully brave, whether they dress or not (which I wouldn't risk as others have said.)

Oh don't sweat the small stuff!

[Niya W]

And the votes are in. It's unanimous .

[suit]

just standin the corner over by that small guliatine said the judge, sentice will start there...

[karanne]

I guess we've had more civil wars because we've been around a bit longer Karanne. They occur every couple of hundred years or so, you'll be coming up to your second one soon so don't get too jealous.

<Political>
With the discrepancy in income between the .01% and the rest of society, the rumblings I'm hearing aren't peaceful. Congress is perceived as owned in toto by BIG MONEY, the GOP and the Tea Party are defending the Rich and Powerful, and the Democrats are seen as Not much Better.

There is a large percentage of the population who are poor, military veterans, and armed. (I have guns myself.) While the country isn't quite at the stage of violent revolution, there's a lot of agreement with the messages of the Occupy crowd. While we're still a nation of laws, there's a lot of discontent, a lot of anger. After all, we've worked hard all our lives, done everything we're supposed to for the American Dream. Gone to college, got that good job, paid our bills, had 2.5 kids and a dog, bought a home, invested in America. Only we're seeing it ripped away by Big Business, by corporate greed, and protected by politicians who are viewed as arrogant, intolerant, and unwilling to compromise. They are practicing 'slash and burn, scorched earth' politics and are in the pockets, bought and sold to the Rich and Powerful, and who protect their corporate masters in return. The recent Supreme Court ruling allowing unlimited corporate donations to politicians doesn't help the situation. It just allows more Big Money to buy more politicians.

As I said, I don't think we're quite there yet. However, the match is lit, and is only an inch or two from the end of the fuse. Personally, I think Gabbi Giffords was only the first ... Something widely viewed as an injustice will move that match.
</Political>

[Lorileah]

Any news from Kaz? Do we need to assemble our seal team?

[PretzelGirl]

I am just now seeing this thread for the first time. My vote? I think she was having a little fun with everyone. I could be wrong....

[Crysten]

You know what? If you're dead set on dressing in a conservative Muslim country, and no one here can talk you out of it, please feel free to do so, you're a big girl, after all. Just keep in mind the consequences may be EXTREMELY steep. Enjoy your trip.

[ReineD]

Now I'm really looking forward for Kaz to come back. Didn't she say she'd only be gone for a few days? She left three days ago on the 24th. Maybe she's returning home over the weekend?

So ... let's take bets!

Did she or didn't she ......... take the femme stuff with her? :)

My guess is no.

[Niya W]

Kaz is going to come back say were all were punked






























then saying the US is the great Satan .

[Carole]

I think someone has bought her for 12 camels............................................ ..

[aliceeliot]

Well, I've only just seen this thread, and it's too late for Kaz - but my experience as follows.....

Back in the mid 00's I had the dubious pleasure of being posted to Dubai for two months. I did my research and decided not to take any of Alice's stuff with me, which was just as well. My suitcase was x-rayed in front of me by security, if any underwired bras (or, god forbid, my forms) had shown up, I don't know what I would have said (I would have been refused entry, and my company informed of why)

Dubai is many things to many people, it can be a great place to visit, but you have to be aware of the local rules, especially 'offending public decency' (OPD - I can't be bothered to type it out every time) Dubai is more 'tolerant' than most Arab countries, but OPD is a pretty vague crime - as has described by many of the posts in this thread, and the risk of offending anyone, airport security included, is too high. Having said that, I found the OPD law to be a 'suits the occasion' excuse - for example, if you get caught trying to smuggle a copy of Playboy through the airport, the chances are you will have your boys cut off and you will be put on the first plane out of there. However, once through the airport, for the price of a copy of Playboy, you can have 4 Thai/Fillipino/Indian(etc) girls for the night, for which the authorities conveniently turn a blind eye - I think it's called 'tourism'. The same girls will constantly pester you in any bar even if you are with your wife and kids (OPD?)

As you have probably guessed, I was not too enamoured with Dubai, but I digress.....

I had great fun!!

Two months without Alice was too much to bear, so I bought Alice lots of presents while I was there, and this was where the fun came in. In the UK, buying clothes for Alice is second nature, in Dubai it was hilarious. First off I bought a pair of hold-ups in a department store and I reckon every single member of staff got involved, presumably it was a novelty to them. From then on, every shopping trip was a Monty Python experience - buying a matching bra and panties set resulted in the security guard following me out of the store. I wanted a bikini, but the SA insisted I needed bathing shorts, the blouse was not a regular mens fit.... surely the skirt should have leg holes.... and the bodycon dress was not a jalabya. Great fun.

As to crossdressing in public in Dubai, that's a no-no - definitely OPD. I think several of you have posted links to the story of the Indian guy arrested and being thrown in prison for being only partially crossdressed. I was fortunate to be in a company villa complex, and the roof had a pretty discreet sun deck, which was used on a regular basis with the bikini I finally convinced the SA to sell me. I also used the pool on regular basis, and this was the first time I swam in a bikini.

So, if you go to Dubai, be very careful, don't take your alter-ego's stuff with you, buy it there. As a footnote, when I left, I took all of Alice's presents with me - they didn't seem to care on the way out.

Alice

[Sister Rachel]

karanne, I'd be glad to clarify a bit of British history for you, but time is short, so another day, hey :)

Kaz, tha's a Yorkshire lass, 'ave a bit o' sense, don't be daft, I were going ta send thee a friend request but it's no use if tha's rotting in some Arab jail, is there?:eek:

I know Dubai might seem like Amsterdam compared to Saudi Arabia, but all the same I'd let discretion be the better part of valour in this instance!

...or is this all a wind-up, in which case NAUGHTY girl!

[Kaz]

Hi Girls,

Literally just got back! I have just unpacked and got on the site before I go to bed... it is 00.18 here and I need to be up at 7 for a full day on my feet at work tomorrow. Sorry you didn't here from me... when I clicked on the site I got a nice message telling me I couldn't and shouldn't!! It is blocked!

So I couldn't give you any updates! Anyway... I am back and will give you an update tomorrow when I get back from work. As usual, I took all your advice on board and then did my own thing! :)

Behaved myself getting into the country, underdressed coming out. Had some fun while there, but not in public!

Had loads of fun on a work/experience level, made loads of new friends and learned loads! As we do with foreign travel!

All in all, a great trip! And yes.. I did behave myself... mostly!

[Laura912]

Well come back! It is great that all our worries were for naught.
Laura

[stacycoral]

Kaz, so glad to hear your home safe.

[Cindi]

If you cannot take the advise of all the people here, then you must be mad.

[Barbara Ella]

Glad you are back Kaz. Cant wait for the stories and to find out how bad you really can get.

Babes

[t-girlxsophie]

As usual, I took all your advice on board and then did my own thing! :)


Man,that got me :heehee: glad everything went so well for you :),welcome back to the cold and the rain

Sophie

[Lorileah]

And just how was the golf tournament? :)

[suzy1]

Never thought I would here from you again.

Now I can sleep nights.

Hugs, SUZY

[Kathy Smith]

A Yorkshire lass as behaves 'erself? Even mostly? Don't gimme that twaddle!
;-)

Welcome back Kaz. :-)

[JessicaM1985]

Glad to hear that you made it ok. The thought of going to a middle eastern country en-drab scares the hell out of me, let alone en femme.

But at least the forum won't be short one talented musician now. :)

[Ava Tryptyk]

Great to hear you made it back safely, Kaz!

I'm curious about the situation in Dubai. I could understand why it would be dangerous to bring in pornography if it's explicitly banned there, but are there any laws that say you can't bring womens' clothing if you're travelling alone as a male? Theoretically you could say that it's for your wife, girlfriend or other female friend that lives in Dubai. Or is it because the clothing is that of western women, rather than that of conservative Arab women, and therefore would look too conspicuous?

[JustWendy]

Kaz - glad to hear you made it back safely. We were all worried when we hadn't heard from you.

[Kaz]

:heehee:Hi Everyone....

Thanks for all the heartfelt stuff... it is amazing! I am a little in awe of the support we give each other here in general and when you are on the receiving end it is really awe..some!:eek:

I am very moved by your comments... all of them! Only 12 camels? Am I that cheap! :sad:

I had a blast, but it was all very understated... Wherever I go in the world I am always amazed but not suprised that we all have far much more in common than we have differences. I have made some more good friends at a work level and my Linked In professional profile grows...

The morning of the flight I slept in! My wife woke me up with a start and I knew then I would miss the train and would have to drive to the airport... so I packed my bag very quickly... took some clothes, wig, forms, heels... I wasn't really thinking - I had just woken from a deep dream and now was in reality! The night before I had it all planned out... on the morning I was a mess! My wife and 22 year old daughter were helping the process with telling me how I was not going to get the train or the plane and I was stuffed... I am thinking 'pack the bag - be ruthless' - I am in 'do it' mode navigating the negative rhetoric of the crowd... I know they want me to win, I just wish they would share that emotion and not the one they choose to project!

I won't bore you with the rest.... the systems went down at Manchester so I was in the check-in queue for an hour (yes I had checked in on-line)... I got there 3 hours before the flight... I arrived at the gate on 'last call'!

Dubai... All my 'dodgy' stuff in my suitcase... cleared immigration...

Get to the hotel/apartment thing.... everything intact... game on!

TBC

[ReineD]

Glad you made your flight and sorry it was such a rush.

But, I'll admit defeat. I was taking bets (figuratively) and was wrong. You did bring all your stuff. Glad it all went OK. :)

[Marleena]

Kaz lives on the edge.:)

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

Well Kaz prove us all wrong and go out dressed. I dare you, like the markets or a club, go on.

[Kaz]

Great to hear you made it back safely, Kaz!

I'm curious about the situation in Dubai. I could understand why it would be dangerous to bring in pornography if it's explicitly banned there, but are there any laws that say you can't bring womens' clothing if you're travelling alone as a male? Theoretically you could say that it's for your wife, girlfriend or other female friend that lives in Dubai. Or is it because the clothing is that of western women, rather than that of conservative Arab women, and therefore would look too conspicuous?

I really ought to answer a few questions here. I got back late Sunday night and had a full day at work yesterday and was pretty 'bushed' last night so apologies for being slow to respond. I didn't really take ALL my stuff! I forgot make-up and a few things (a good idea probably!). I took three skirts, two tops, two strappy vests, one pair of heels and some underwear... not a lot, but still more than I needed! Also a wig, but forgot the brush so had to buy one while there. My reasoning was as Sveta has intimated... what is wrong with having women's clothes in your suitcase? I have bought things for my wife before now and put them in a suitcase! CDing is in itself not a crime. The crime is about behaviour... so CDing in public is risky. It could be a ticking off but could be a week in jail depending on the scale of the offence. The same with overt homosexual behaviour.

I don't think 'I live on the edge'... though thanks for the compliment!... but I was prepared to fight my case if necessary! So I behaved myself and didn't venture out of my room dressed - I would have looked a sight with no beard cover and make-up! A dead give away! Hence the blessing of forgetting the 'kit'!

No... I was up at 6.30... off for a day's work, back at about 5.30... and chilling!

I don't know if my suitcase was scanned... it was in the hold and arrived in baggage reclaim OK. I didn't put anything that would appear strange in my cabin baggage, which was scanned at entry in Dubai. I was underdressed in hold-ups and knickers, but no bra... no strange behaviours from anyone. I did go out on the balcony a few times... I guessed that at that distance no-one would have known. Looking at others on their balconies, you could make out shapes not faces... if anyone had binoculars...oh well!

Now if I had been going to Saudi, things would have been different! My view is that we should always respect the wishes of a host culture and obey their laws, whilst still expressing ourselves as the individuals we are. In my lectures I pushed the envelope on cultural interactions and had a really positive response. Mutual respect and tolerance.

But if I go again.... I just might take my make-up bag... oh my! :heehee:

[kimdl93]

Glad to here you're back safe and sound. If next time it turns out otherwise, perhaps we could create CD defense fund on your behalf!

[Sister Rachel]

Glad you're back, Kaz! .. summat and nowt, eh?:doh::)

[Stockingstopgirl]

Glad to see you back. Having experienced it over there ,would you ever go back and dress in womens garb dressed with a veil and full Hijab etc.

[Kaz]

Glad to see you back. Having experienced it over there ,would you ever go back and dress in womens garb dressed with a veil and full Hijab etc.

Interesting! This could be the test of a real crossdresser! And the answer is YES! I would have passed! Not blended... passed!

Dubai is very 'enlightened' and they are very progressive as a nation, as are all the UAE countries. They are trying to move towards a society that is globally friendly but one which also keeps and values their fundamental traditions... The fundamental teachings of Islam are not disconnected from Christianity nor Judaeism... these are the three Abrahamic religions and there is a commonality. Seek the commonality and you engage and build. Seek the divisions and you have war. Those who want war seek the divisions...

If we look for the underlying truth in religions, we see a code for survival and the retained knowledge of generations. Religious fanaticism is the work of minorities... the majorities share the same values and beliefs...

So yes... I would go back and CD, but proprioanlly

And Lorrilea no golf, but loads of golfers at the airport holding everyone up!

[Momarie]

I am glad you are safely back...very, very relieved in fact.

Your need for pushing the envelope and affirmation in what could have easily turned into a dangerous situation, despite your thinking their "fundamental traditions" would embrace you is shockingly 'unenlightened', to say nothing of being extremely foolish.

We all understand your need for seeking attention and our forum is a safe place to do that, but you took an extreme risk which could have had extreme consequences.

P.S.
I am quite prepared for the backlash of calling your actions foolish etc. and am willing to take what's coming, in an effort to keep our members safe.

Whether they go to Dubai or unknowingly put themselves in danger walking to their car in a dark parking lot without being cautious or aware of their surroundings.

What men forget is if you are "physically weaker or at a disadvantage" in an dangerous situation, is you MUST think ahead and be SMART all the time.
Part of that thinking is to never put yourself in such a situation in the first place.

[Kaz]

I am glad you are safely back...very, very relieved in fact.

Your need for pushing the envelope and affirmation in what could have easily turned into a dangerous situation, despite your thinking their "fundamental traditions" would embrace you is shockingly 'unenlightened', to say nothing of being extremely foolish.

We all understand your need for seeking attention and our forum is a safe place to do that, but you took an extreme risk which could have had extreme consequences.

P.S.
I am quite prepared for the backlash of calling your actions foolish etc. and am willing to take what's coming, in an effort to keep our members safe.

Whether they go to Dubai or unknowingly put themselves in danger walking to their car in a dark parking lot without being cautious or aware of their surroundings.

What men forget is if you are "physically weaker or at a disadvantage" in an dangerous situation, is you MUST think ahead and be SMART all the time.
Part of that thinking is to never put yourself in such a situation in the first place.

Hi Momarie,

I totally accept your view and I am certainly not endorsing being foolish. Rather the contrary. It is easy to sit in the boxes that others both provide for us and generally like to put us in. This is as true with religion as it is with general behaviour. Religions (as 'boxes') transcend national boundaries, but national 'boxes' still seek to contain. We also have other 'boxes' which certain people like to use to control others. My 'pushing the envelope' is merely about testing these 'boxes'. I have no need to put anyone in a box and welcome free thought... I believe in the natural 'goodness' of people - and this does transcend national and religious boundaries. I have many friends from many faiths and many nationalities... some are gay, some are CD, etc... I have no need of boxes. To me everyone is unique and special.

So I apologise if I have offended the sensitivities of people here. I am who I am... I am learning to like myself!