Cd admirers, why are there so many?

[Marleena]

I've done a lot of surfing the net and find there are a lot of CD/TG/TS admirers, but they're mostly men. Many claim to be straight, so what are they really after? I wish more females were admirers.

If you're out in public have you encountered them?

Good or bad experiences?

Are they just all looking for sex ( I hope not)?

I know some of the TG girls here may be admirers too. Not being judgemental.:)

No Scarlet..I'm not one of them, although we do have pretty girls here.:)

[Marleena]

Oh now you've done it.
No-one wants to discuss the woman with a penis thing.
No they don't.
They don't.
Really!

Are you sure? Somebody had to ask!

[WsprsOnTheWind]

That's a good question. I accept them but I wouldn't say that I admire them. I guess I can admire them for having the chutzpah to go out in public dressed as the opposite sex. I doubt I could ever be that courageous.

[Marleena]

If I must be serious.....A CD admirer isn't wanting a guy in a dress. In an ideal CD admirer's world it is a REAL woman with a penis that fits the job description.
O.K. I am off to hide behind something now.
So whatever happens now isn't my fault o.k.?

Thanks Scarlet..lol. All your fault for mentioning the penis part! Sheesh.

Thanks Wsprs! Nice to hear your view, you're right it ain't easy when a CDer first goes out in public.:)

[Shananigans]

There are plenty of women that like TG people. However, I think most women want more than meaningless flings...and, we are less likely to be super creepy and really forward in our approaches...so, flying under the radar is easier. (?)

[Julia_in_Pa]

Hi Marleena,

After a few years of dealing with male admirers I just learned to have sex with them then dump them.
There less than human so I never felt bad using them.

There were a few that stand out in my mind as useful like paying to get my car repaired but that was about it.

By the way your new photo looks wonderful.


Julia

[WsprsOnTheWind]

There are plenty of women that like TG people. However, I think most women want more than meaningless flings...and, we are less likely to be super creepy and really forward in our approaches...so, flying under the radar is easier. (?)

To add to this, I think that CD's find it so hard to find someone who will accept them they tend to stick with the partners who will. JMO, though.

[Julia_in_Pa]

@ wsprs on the wind,

I fully agree with what you said.


Julia

[Julogden]

This gets into trying to define other people's sexual identity, very hard to do. Are they straight? Technically no, probably bisexual is more accurate, but not quite 100%. Many that I've met were attracted to females as well as transgendered males. They're attracted to femininity, regardless of whether the person they like is male or female.

And many are mainly looking for sex, probably most, but should we label them as pervs any more than the guys who are out looking strictly for sex with females? They're annoying if you don't want their attention and they're bugging you, no question about it, I've experienced that plenty of times.

But remember that there are plenty of people who consider us pervs, so let's not go there. :)

Carol

[Shananigans]

To add to this, I think that CD's find it so hard to find someone who will accept them they tend to stick with the partners who will. JMO, though.

Idk if the..."stranger" admirers are giving acceptance...

But, alright...

It's definitely something though.

I used to get kind of pissy at women getting objectified. Then, I learned about some TG people's problem with some admirers. It's pretty much the same story under a different title. I am currently dating a TG person and find myself open to dating people across the gender spectrum, but I think a distinct difference is that I'm not seeking out TG people. It seems like most people who do (seek out) have mixed genitalia fetishes and I just kind of want a relationship with someone I find attractive and interesting. That person just so happens to be my SO who also happens to be TG.

[Misskelly]

Well , as a female admirer who likes cd's I don't want to get into to much depth here cause people might think I'm insane and never talk to me again , But to me it like having a girlfriend someone who loves to shop and do makeup with and someone that has the girlish traits but still has the man features too . It might also have to do with the fact I grew up with a Cd as a father and as much as women do not want to admit it we often try to find men like our fathers

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Well , as a female admirer who likes cd's I don't want to get into to much depth here cause people might think I'm insane and never talk to me again , But to me it like having a girlfriend someone who loves to shop and do makeup with and someone that has the girlish traits but still has the man features too . It might also have to do with the fact I grew up with a Cd as a father and as much as women do not want to admit it we often try to find men like our fathers

How old were you when you found out your father is a CD and how did you deal with it? I can see your point that it is like having a gal pal to hang with. It's nice to know that when I ask him an opinion if something looks right I am going to get an honest answer. It's nice to be able to shop for girl clothes with him b/c he is not like typical men who are standing around looking out of place praying they can hurry up and leave. There are definite advantages to it.

[Marleena]

But remember that there are plenty of people who consider us pervs, so let's not go there. :)

Carol

Ah yes..so true! Edited my post.:)

I can also be an admirer in the fact that I admire all of us for being our feminine selves.:) It's not meant to be judgemental just looking for answers.

[whowhatwhen]

Maybe more men are curious or like the pen 15 than they'd like to admit.
A penis fetish (if it exists) might explain it if he truly is not attracted to the same gender.

[Tara D. Rose]

Yes Marleena, there does seem to be relatively millions of them out there. A couple of years ago, I was on another site where there was chat, and doing so with my wife’s permission I might add. I had to get off of that site for it seemed it was nothing more than a site for the admirers of cd’s. I was looking for a support site at the time. I joined it to talk about cd issues and all. But one by one they all seemed to go straight to nasty explicit sex talk and what all the want to do to me. That gets old real fast. It does seem that in the minds of the admirers, they seem to have us all stereotyped as cd’ing for the sole purpose of having sex with them. And it is so far from that as most of us on here know. Some cd’s may do that, but the vast majority of cd’s do not do what we do to have sex with men. But from what I’ve seen from admirers, and of those that are not a cd themselves, seem to have just one track minds. My guess is that admirers are so unlucky with FAB women and may think that a cd is easy, maybe I’m not sure. But I do wonder why there isn’t a lot real women are admirers and seek out a cd.
I mean I guess there isn’t anything wrong with being an admirer and seeking out what it is they want, but why is it that the majority of admirers seem to have no clout, or ethics, they go straight to sex talk on the first hello. While I was at SCC on two different occasions, I did have a couple of different admirers talk to me and tell me what they wanted to do to me. Of course I did send them to the other side of the room with tact, I didn’t have to show my aggressive side.
But yes Marleena, there does seem to be many many of them, but at the moment when they claim they are straight, also prove they are liars at the same time.
L&R………………Tara

[Mindy More]

That's a really good question. I think curiosity plays a big part in the CD admirer, it's a small theory of mine that some of those admirer's (not all) may want to CD also and are looking for answers to some of they're own questions maybe? Also as mentioned the whole penis thing. Some men have a desire to be penetrated and feel a CD/Tgurl would be able to fulfill they're desires without being overly gay possibly...??? Like a woman with a strap on except it's not plastic/rubber. I do think it's pretty funny that those men still think of themselves as straight. It's the female form that they desire ...
I have yet to meet in person a GG admirer but I imagine they're thoughts are much different from men.

[cdsara]

I assume that the moderators keep the out of here for the most part? Have any of you had issues with them on this site? And I agree every other site I have found is flooded with them!!!!

[Marleena]

I assume that the moderators keep the out of here for the most part? Have any of you had issues with them on this site? And I agree every other site I have found is flooded with them!!!!

Nope..No issues here. This site is like a safe haven. Or maybe I'm a homely chick.lol.

[ArleneRaquel]

In my experiences most are looking for you know what, but a few hat I've encountered just like to chat and talk sports, politics, current events. Tha later group has given me the opportunity to increase my circle of friends in a postive way.

[Mindy More]

Nope..No issues here. This site is like a safe haven. Or maybe I'm a homely chick.lol.

I wouldn't call you Homely sweety ;)

But I agree, this site does feel like a safe haven from alot of whats out there. One of the things I really dig about here. Not getting hit on by, well strange guys with demeaning behavior in tow

[Marleena]

I did not post this thread to cause issues just to get input, so far the reples are great! In some ways I find it very flattering that TG girls have admirers.

TG girls can admire each other too, I get that.

[docrobbysherry]

I'm on a CD dating site. The percentages there r about 95% males, 5% GGs. Anyway, Sherry can look pretty good in her pictures! So, I've gotten lots of PMs from men. Some that dress, some that don't. If they're couth and decent, I'll chat with them. But, they never stick around for very long. After all, they R MEN! I'm NOT going to give them what they want!

While I have met a few at the SCC, they weren't really interested in me, live! I consider that a benefit of being an old and homely CD!

U can't really blame them for chasing after Tara, tho!

[Misskelly]

How old were you when you found out your father is a CD and how did you deal with it? I can see your point that it is like having a gal pal to hang with. It's nice to know that when I ask him an opinion if something looks right I am going to get an honest answer. It's nice to be able to shop for girl clothes with him b/c he is not like typical men who are standing around looking out of place praying they can hurry up and leave. There are definite advantages to it.

Well As long as I can remember there was aunt sally there is picture of us together as a baby . She raised me and taught me how to cook and clean while mom worked . I thought we lived a normal life I remember being told I wasn't allowed to tell people about aunt sally but really didn't understand why .


You are the ideal CD girlfriend.

I hope someday I can live up to :-)


Well a lot of men are all about sex trust me I've been single for 5 years since my husband passed been dating for about 2 years now and trust me all men think about is sex so I can see why most admirers that are men come off the same way it in there nature .

[whowhatwhen]

Also as mentioned the whole penis thing. Some men have a desire to be penetrated and feel a CD/Tgurl would be able to fulfill they're desires without being overly gay possibly...??? Like a woman with a strap on except it's not plastic/rubber.

I think that's it, society doesn't paint a pretty picture of submissive/passive men either.
They're not gay but that is how pretty much 99% of people will label them as, that is where his like of CDs could lie.

Just a guess...

[Leslie Langford]

Marleena, as one poster above alluded to, it would seem to me that most male CD admirers (the proverbial "tranny chasers") are attracted to the outward manifestation of extreme femininity as exhibited by those women who either dress in a slu tty or provocative manner at one end of the spectrum, or else the way sophisticated and glamorous high-fashion supermodels do on the other end. And since for most women these days, looking or acting "girly" has become a dirty word and they prefer to dress in "Walmart chic", it is no wonder that many straight men are looking elsewhere for their visual kicks, and have begun to embrace drag queens and good-looking CD's as a viable option if they want to parade around some eye candy on their arms.

I, myself, have been on the receiving end of such unwanted attention, and it does make for some awkward moments at times. It also makes me laugh inside over how pathetic these guys whose brains reside in their penises rather than in their heads are, and how thankful I am for my TG side that shields me from being such a total knuckle-dragging Neanderthal even though I am biologically a male as well.

On the other hand, I do have a number of female friends (my make up artist, a consignment store owner, and a photographer whom I've gotten to know, among others), who are quite intrigued by "Leslie", are very admiring and supportive of the pains "she" takes to look and act as genuine and as lady-like as possible, and treat her just like a regular girlfriend.

Now that said, these ladies are all married and would likely not be very thrilled if their husbands decided to go the same route, but somehow, they seem to feel "safe" in letting their guard down with me because our relationships are strictly platonic and above-board.

I see the same phenomenon at play when watching morning daytime television shows that are directed at women and where the main topics covered include beauty, hair styles, make up, fashion, home decorating etc. - shows like What Not To Wear, the Nate Berkus Show - or, in our local market, Marleena - CityLine and the Marilyn Denis Show. These shows are all practically overrun with gay male beauty, decor, and fashion experts, and the predominately female audiences just adore them and lap up their every word.

It is my theory that in the same way that many hetero women are secretly attracted to "bad boys" even though they usually settle for "conventional" when they get married, many would be equally attracted to CDers because of the feminine traits that they would bring to a relationship. They probably subconsciously suppress this, however, because of the societal taboos that still exist around such possible inclinations.

[seanmuscle]

Marleena, as one poster above alluded to, it would seem to me that most male CD admirers (the proverbial "tranny chasers") are attracted to the outward manifestation of extreme femininity as exhibited by those women who either dress in a slu tty or provocative manner at one end of the spectrum, or else the way sophisticated and glamorous high-fashion supermodels do on the other end. And since for most women these days, looking or acting "girly" has become a dirty word and they prefer to dress in "Walmart chic", it is no wonder that many straight men are looking elsewhere for their visual kicks, and have begun to embrace drag queens and good-looking CD's as a viable option if they want to parade around some eye candy on their arms.

I, myself, have been on the receiving end of such unwanted attention, and it does make for some awkward moments at times. It also makes me laugh inside over how pathetic these guys whose brains reside in their penises rather than in their heads are, and how thankful I am for my TG side that shields me from being such a total knuckle-dragging Neanderthal even though I am biologically a male as well.

On the other hand, I do have a number of female friends (my make up artist, a consignment store owner, and a photographer whom I've gotten to know, among others), who are quite intrigued by "Leslie", are very admiring and supportive of the pains "she" takes to look and act as genuine and as lady-like as possible, and treat her just like a regular girlfriend.

Now that said, these ladies are all married and would likely not be very thrilled if their husbands decided to go the same route, but somehow, they seem to feel "safe" in letting their guard down with me because our relationships are strictly platonic and above-board.

I see the same phenomenon at play when watching morning daytime television shows that are directed at women and where the main topics covered include beauty, hair styles, make up, fashion, home decorating etc. - shows like What Not To Wear, the Nate Berkus Show - or, in our local market, Marleena - CityLine and the Marilyn Denis Show. These shows are all practically overrun with gay male beauty, decor, and fashion experts, and the predominately female audiences just adore them and lap up their every word.

It is my theory that in the same way that many hetero women are secretly attracted to "bad boys" even though they usually settle for "conventional" when they get married, many would be equally attracted to CDers because of the feminine traits that they would bring to a relationship. They probably subconsciously suppress this, however, because of the societal taboos that still exist around such possible inclinations.

I have to agree that gg are not really that feminine anymore because of feminism. There are Cds who look hotter than gg. Straight men just love femininity.....pantyhose, heels, garter belts, dresses.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Some (male bodied) TV/TS admirers are in denial about their own TV/TSism and it is somehow "safe" for them to date us, even be intimate with us, but they cannot bring themselves to dress up themselves. For them, being involved with us is a way to get close to femininity and explore gender without crossing their own "acceptable" gender line in their own mind. I have known a few over the years who later came out as TV/TS after they admitted their true feelings to themselves.

Many (most?) are also married and have bi tenancies and their GG wives have no idea (I feel sorry for their wives.) They may justify it in their minds that since it is not a GG that it is not cheating, and because their male bodied partner is dressed up and looks like a woman it does not "officially count" as gay.

GG admirers (GGs who are actively attracted to TV/TS) are very rare, it is wonderful that we have a number of them here. I only wish the sample of GGs here reflected the population at large.

[Melissa Jill]

"The ultimate woman is a man"

[judith96]

I put up an online dating profile a while ago exclusively using photos of me dressed up and have chatted with a number of "admirers" at length (admittedly I've never actually met any of them, I think I'm too shy for online dating in general.) I've found basically four categories of men who contact me.

Category one / scary people: The creepiest are the ones I call the fetishists, who seem to be absolutely fixated on the idea of sex with a man dressed up as a woman. They almost always try to pry for inappropriate or immodest pictures and immediately try to turn the conversation lewd. They genuinely scare me. I don't understand what motivates them and kind of hope that I never do.

Category twos are guys who identify themselves as straight, but if you talk to them for a while usually seem to be bi-curious and feel more comfortable approaching someone who they see as "in-between" sexes. I think they want to explore their sexuality but have internalized the social stigma that's been unfairly applied to same-sex relationships and think of it as being attracted to a someone who's "sort-of" a woman. They're usually pretty polite but overly self-conscious.

Category three are guys who are open to their attraction to other men and who genuinely find me attractive. They usually identify as bi. They're almost always very nice in conversation, usually very non-judgemental and understanding. Sometimes they're curious about crossdressing and ask about why I do it, their reasons for thinking about starting or even suggestions on how to start.

Lastly, there are other crossdressers and MTF transsexuals. Usually they're just happy to find someone they can talk to openly and honestly. I love talking to them and have gotten most of my make-up tips that way.

[ArleneRaquel]

I have never registered at an online dating service, the men that I've meet, who admirer CD's, have been in public places, bars, lounges, or the like, usually when I'm with a group of girls.

[seanmuscle]

Well As long as I can remember there was aunt sally there is picture of us together as a baby . She raised me and taught me how to cook and clean while mom worked . I thought we lived a normal life I remember being told I wasn't allowed to tell people about aunt sally but really didn't understand why .

How does it work in the bedroom then? surely you want a man?

I hope someday I can live up to :-)


Well a lot of men are all about sex trust me I've been single for 5 years since my husband passed been dating for about 2 years now and trust me all men think about is sex so I can see why most admirers that are men come off the same way it in there nature .

How does it work in the bedroom then? surely u want a man. And to be treated as a woman in the bedroom? you like a masculine man

[Lorileah]

I've done a lot of surfing the net and find there are a lot of CD/TG/TS admirers, but they're mostly men. Because in general the web surfing you have done is for people looking for a quick hook up. Since the women looking on the net are not usually looking for sex (because after all why would they look on the net when they only have to to go to a bar :doh:
Many claim to be straight, so what are they really after? Scared, angry, in denial, violent..who knows since most are so gone that they leave a vapor trail. Oh you mean what are they AFTER...well they want a quick orgasm and they don't care how.

I wish more females were admirers. I wish that they wore a sign.


If you're out in public have you encountered them? Hell yes. Search my most recent thread for the most current. There is an unwritten idea that when a guy is in public dresses as a female he is just looking for one thing. Easy target. And to be truthful there are plenty of "Us" out there who are playing the same game. I know of times when there was a "tranny (sorry if I hurt someone's feelings)" who had at least two guys in the parking lot and was searching for more.


Good or bad experiences? Mostly good because I seem to be able to diffuse the situation quickly. I have been called almost every name in the book at times. The bad are terrible. I have had men ask me for favors while my girlfriend was sitting next to me and when this was pointed out they have asked BOTH of us. Now that I go out single, I have had mostly good experiences.


Are they just all looking for sex ( I hope not)? I would say yes but then again aren't most guys? No one has asked me to date on a routine basis and only one asked me to marry him (but I think he was a little drunk)


I am a big girl and I know what is out there. I have no illusions that when I am out in public at a club that I will be hit upon. So far there have been no women who asked for a one night stand yet :daydreaming:. Most the guys know what lies beneath the clothes and are either Bi or Gay now. The only time I was really afraid and concerned was in my thread. I was really looking for an escape route and I was concerned about even leaving. But to be honest this same situation has happened to me when I wasn't dressed in a dress. You meet all kinds out there.:straightface:

[Marleena]

Great replies so far thanks! My wife was the reason for this thread. She joked if I go out what do I do if I get hit on? I told her it wasn't likely and not to worry.

It didn't take much research for me to do this thread just type in crossdressers in a Google search or CD admirers for a better sampling.

[Chickhe]

On halloween I had one guy approach me and asked to dance with me, cut in on my wife and I and she says...no problem! I've got to say, that was a really odd feeling... I'm not exactly a good looking female and yet he was 'taken' with me... told me I was sexy and I was pretty worried I would have to do something drastic to loose him. Anyways, we got saved by the closing bell. He wasn't even good looking...not that I was looking, but yet, this thought haunts me... I have a low opinion of my attractiveness in any mode, but I am forced to admit at least two people in the world think I am attractive. Shake my head and shiver!

[Kate Simmons]

Some good GG input here. Both friends of mine. In any case, who doesn't admire a good looking gal to somewhat answer your question.:battingeyelashes::)

[PretzelGirl]

I assume that the moderators keep the out of here for the most part? Have any of you had issues with them on this site? And I agree every other site I have found is flooded with them!!!!

I don't think it is because the moderators directly keep them away. I believe that they are welcome here. But there is a standard of behaviour and the mods will enforce that. So there are some or many that play their hand and are gone that quick. If that doesn't happen, they probably get a good feel for what the forum is about and leave knowing this isn't for them.

But in all fairness, we can't group all admirers into one bucket of people who want sex. I have only met a few and only one made me keep my eyes out for him. Another was a good person who I could easily call a friend who only stated that he thought all CDs should be on hormones (that was an interesting conversation). And another was a partner of a friend and quite a gentleman himself.

Speaking directly to the comments of Marleena's wife. One thing I have noticed between my little experience and the comments here is that it seems more likely that you will run into admirers at bars and TG specific events. No small surprise there. But for Marleena's wife, the possibility of getting hit on if you don't go clubbing probably goes down drastically. I don't think admirers are generally hanging out at Macy's and the movies.

[AndrewJenny]

Some (male bodied) TV/TS admirers are in denial about their own TV/TSism and it is somehow "safe" for them to date us, even be intimate with us, but they cannot bring themselves to dress up themselves. For them, being involved with us is a way to get close to femininity and explore gender without crossing their own "acceptable" gender line in their own mind. I have known a few over the years who later came out as TV/TS after they admitted their true feelings to themselves.



I think this is very true. Now that I'm starting to come out again after a long time of repression, I find myself staring open-mouthed at the CD/TS women I meet. I think a lot of it is just longing to accept that part of myself, particularly when I meet someone who looks like I fantasize about looking. It's SO much easier to go after what you want to be when it's someone else and you don't have to take ownership of your feelings!

[tvbeckytv]

i dont really use dating sites but i do use chat sites. most internet male admirers turn out to be panti wearers anyways.
in the real world most i encounter are perfectly nice and want to treat a tranny as a lady...infact that is probably more important to them than anything. i am generalising a bit...but then so is everyone else

[ReineD]

I've done a lot of surfing the net and find there are a lot of CD/TG/TS admirers, but they're mostly men. Many claim to be straight, so what are they really after?

Um ... sex? lol

My SO told me that some (many?) men just get it wherever they think they can. My personal opinion is, if I were a man with a high sexual appetite, I would assume that other men feel the same way, and so my chances of getting any would be greater with men than with women (especially if, um ... I wasn't exactly what girls consider to be "hot"). It would certainly takes less effort to find a willing guy than a willing girl. And so I might justify the whole thing to myself by preferring a guy who is willing to at least look like a girl, especially if I discovered that so many such guys fantasize about being with men like me when they are dressed. :p

OK, so I might be a bit cynical about this. :)

[IMkrystal]

Well , as a female admirer who likes cd's I don't want to get into to much depth here cause people might think I'm insane and never talk to me again , But to me it like having a girlfriend someone who loves to shop and do makeup with and someone that has the girlish traits but still has the man features too . It might also have to do with the fact I grew up with a Cd as a father and as much as women do not want to admit it we often try to find men like our fathers

I appreciate your reply to this post .However, it saddens me :sad:that you think others would think you insane or never talk to with you. I have found women on here to be very candid when they express their opinions. Although, there have been some comments from those who have expressed discomfort about expressing their feelings because of blowback from Cders and others, I hope women on here would not show any resentment toward you . Having been a Cder for most of my life, the hurdle of acceptance and rejection has always been on my mind. On this website neither have been an issue.:)

[Shananigans]

Makes sense to me. But, I do think there are men out there that are open to being with TG people that aren't creepers. It probably wouldn't be the people taking pictures of their junk and saying they are looking for a girl with "something extra" lol. Dating sites are unfortunately filled with mostly weird people...and, Craigslist is a sausage fest. Of course, if your means of dating or hooking up are via these mechanisms, you are going to find weird people that no one really wants to date. It can be a good thing if you too are also a weird person that no one wants to date and need a quick bang. But, if you are looking for people that are worth your time, they probably won't be on such sites.

So, obviously very normal, good-looking people are open to dating TG people. Call them "admirers" or open-minded...whatever. But, you can't complain too hard if your dating mechanism is through sketchy websites of old, overweight men "doing you a favor" by taking a picture of their junk and then talking to you like you are the best freak show to get his jollies from.


Um ... sex? lol

My SO told me that some (many?) men just get it wherever they think they can. My personal opinion is, if I were a man with a high sexual appetite, I would assume that other men feel the same way, and so my chances of getting any would be greater with men than with women (especially if, um ... I wasn't exactly what girls consider to be "hot"). It would certainly takes less effort to find a willing guy than a willing girl. And so I might justify the whole thing to myself by preferring a guy who is willing to at least look like a girl, especially if I discovered that so many such guys fantasize about being with men like me when they are dressed. :p

OK, so I might be a bit cynical about this. :)

[docrobbysherry]

Makes sense to me. But, I do think there are men out there that are open to being with TG people that aren't creepers. It probably wouldn't be the people taking pictures of their junk and saying they are looking for a girl with "something extra" lol. Dating sites are unfortunately filled with mostly weird people...and, Craigslist is a sausage fest. Of course, if your means of dating or hooking up are via these mechanisms, you are going to find weird people that no one really wants to date. It can be a good thing if you too are also a weird person that no one wants to date and need a quick bang. But, if you are looking for people that are worth your time, they probably won't be on such sites.

So, obviously very normal, good-looking people are open to dating TG people. Call them "admirers" or open-minded...whatever. But, you can't complain too hard if your dating mechanism is through sketchy websites of old, overweight men "doing you a favor" by taking a picture of their junk and then talking to you like you are the best freak show to get his jollies from.
Ha ha ha ha! I can't stop laffing, Shana! Of course, what makes your post very funny is, that there is so much TRUTH in it!

[Shananigans]

Also, on the same lines, I was going to say that GGs have been dealing with creepy people forever...it doesn't phase me anymore. But, you can't encourage them. The weird guy at the bar that won't leave you alone and wants to buy you a drink, so you give up and allow him to buy you one... NO... Because, he's never going to go away now. You will literally have to leave the bar to get away from him. Why? Because, you give them an inch and they take a mile.

There really are predator out there (especially on dating websites) that are looking for people with low self-esteem. Unfortunately, a lot of CDs I know do not think highly of themselves...and, for whatever reason, they fuel the weirdos. So, after a few CDs with low self-esteem satisfy the creepers, it's like the guy that won't leave you alone at the bar... Word gets out that CDs are "easy" and any schlump could probably hit on them a bit and get in their pants.

Women don't always have the greatest self-esteem either, but it seems that CDs are looking for a different validation. I may have self-esteem issues and think I don't look pretty one day. But, having sex with an uggo from the bar isn't going to make me feel any hotter. Some CDs say a lot that having sex with a man (any man) validates them in being a woman. So, if any weirdo online will do... And, then, it's a sh*t storm of desperate weirdos feeding on desperate people in need of validation.

But, I'm also pretty cynical.

[Badtranny]

Um ... sex? lol

My SO told me that some (many?) men just get it wherever they think they can. My personal opinion is, if I were a man with a high sexual appetite, I would assume that other men feel the same way, and so my chances of getting any would be greater with men than with women (especially if, um ... I wasn't exactly what girls consider to be "hot"). It would certainly takes less effort to find a willing guy than a willing girl. And so I might justify the whole thing to myself by preferring a guy who is willing to at least look like a girl, especially if I discovered that so many such guys fantasize about being with men like me when they are dressed. :p

OK, so I might be a bit cynical about this. :)

Cynical? How about right on the mark? Dudes like to have sex. They will let another dude give them a [edited out by Reine .. use your imaginations :)] in a second if it was private and nobody would know. I've [edited out by Reine .. use your imaginations] a straight guy or two and believe me, they're perfectly okay with it as long as they can forget it ever happened. Aside from this forum which is so heavily moderated that it almost encourages the fantasy of faux outrage over male sexuality, there are a gazillion CD's out there looking for a good time. Men are opportunists in regard to sex so they will always grab the low hanging fruit (no pun intended) if it's available.

Men who dress as women are seen by other men as an opportunity for a good time. Why else would they apparently abandon their power as men? Men see women as sexual subordinates, they are the ones who get penetrated, so a feminine man is purposely subordinating himself. Obviously I know this isn't always or even mostly the case, but men who know nothing of this lifestyle except what they see on Craigslist have no reason to think otherwise. The fact is a LOT of cross dressing men are looking for sex too and to pretend otherwise is just kinda goofy.

This forum is a refuge of sorts for those of us who want a place where we can be free from lewd come-ons or constant chat requests, but I've seen many of these CD.com girls around the net looking for some action because I'm doing the same thing. I've had ads on personal sites for years and still do. Only these days I'm looking for a real relationship which is nearly impossible compared to looking for sex.

I do enjoy the puritan horror that some display around here though. Must be part of the "act" because I've never met a man CD or otherwise who doesn't have "needs". ;-)

[ReineD]

I assume that the moderators keep the out of here for the most part? Have any of you had issues with them on this site? And I agree every other site I have found is flooded with them!!!!I don't think it is because the moderators directly keep them away. I believe that they are welcome here. But there is a standard of behaviour and the mods will enforce that. So there are some or many that play their hand and are gone that quick. If that doesn't happen, they probably get a good feel for what the forum is about and leave knowing this isn't for them.

Sara, Sue is correct. We don't prohibit admirers from joining. But we do limit sex talk in the public forums for everyone. When admirers discover this, most just don't come back.

The more astute admirers will figure out how to post without being explicit (even if their posts are transparent :p), and will gather enough of a following in order to pursue the rest of it privately via PM.



So, obviously very normal, good-looking people are open to dating TG people. Call them "admirers" or open-minded...whatever.

You may well have a point, and it may be more true of the younger crowd, the generation raised with not as many hangups as their predecessors. :)

But I went to a few tranny bars with my SO when we were just beginning to out in public. And I tell ya ... the admirers I saw (all were middle aged but this doesn't mean there aren't more such as you describe) pretty well fit the M.O. described by someone who has been on the scene in the San Francisco area for years, and who wrote a book about it. His name is Dr. Richard (Alice) Novic. She wrote "Alice in Genderland".

http://aliceingenderland.com/Manhunt.html See the quote below:



Each admirer is a bird unable to fly. Maybe he’s flown before? Maybe he’ll develop tail feathers of his own and shake them around in style in the future? But for now he’s limited by something. And that same thing that keeps him from being a terribly happening woman may be what’s keeping him from being an especially happening man.

That’s why admirers tend to be a heavier and older bunch of men. It would make sense if they were also taller, though I haven’t seen that near as much as I’d like. Some may have their wings clipped by lack of a steady job, car, or apartment. Many are married and unable to get out except under the rarest of circumstances. Some may be constrained by psychological baggage, religious guilt, or macho ethnic tradition.

But the problem for a man-loving TG like me is that once one of these fellows shakes off his shackles and sheds some pounds he may not emerge as a hot, happening man on the scene; he may just show up next week in a dress. “Darn,” I’ve often complained, “the best men here tonight are women.”

Edited to add:

Some CDs say a lot that having sex with a man (any man) validates them in being a woman. So, if any weirdo online will do... And, then, it's a sh*t storm of desperate weirdos feeding on desperate people in need of validation.

But, I'm also pretty cynical.

My thoughts exactly, at least for the CDers who feel as if they are treated like real women when they meet up with online contacts, or one night stands from the bar scene.


-----------------------------------------------


I have to agree that gg are not really that feminine anymore because of feminism. There are Cds who look hotter than gg. Straight men just love femininity.....pantyhose, heels, garter belts, dresses.
*sigh*. And there are CDs who look hotter than other CDs, GGs who look hotter than other GGs, and GGs who look hotter than CDs. And men who look hotter than other men. :rolleyes: Oh, and there are also men who look hotter than some CDs.

And men who are into the sporty girl, the athletic girl, the intellectual type girl, the girl next door type. In my last comment to one of your posts, Sean, I thought you were starting to get away from all those blanket statements. :wall:


How does it work in the bedroom then? surely u want a man. And to be treated as a woman in the bedroom? you like a masculine man
And here we go again. Now you are telling a GG what her sexual preference is and how she wants to be treated. :facepalm:

[Shananigans]

Reine,

Alice Novik creeps me out to no end. I'm glad I didn't stumble upon her book when I was first introduced to this lol. But, I think she makes a fair point in the quote you cited. My SO and I have no made it out to any TG bars, so I'll have to report back in when we get that experience. There ARE a number of creepy young people too...believe me. It does seem like most admirers are middle-aged, but some of the youngins are just as bad. I hope Cami and I can go to a gay bar here that is always a lot of fun. I've never felt threatened there and have had a great time. As far as I know, I have not seen any CDs there...but, I can't see it as a place where we'd get a lot of sh*t from people. And, if two girls kiss at this bar, there wont be 6 guys with camera phones up my a$$.

[Lorileah]

Um ... sex? lol

My personal opinion is, if I were a man with a high sexual appetite, I would assume that other men feel the same way, and so my chances of getting any would be greater with men than with women (especially if, um ... I wasn't exactly what girls consider to be "hot").


"The good thing about bisexuality is it doubles your chance of getting a date on Friday night." — Woody Allen.

[Shananigans]

"The good thing about bisexuality is it doubles your chance of getting a date on Friday night." — Woody Allen.

In good humor, I like this quote. But, I think the gay community can be "pickier" sometimes. We often talk about how if you are a gay guy, it seems like you have to spend so much more time on yourself to get a date than any straight guy. I often feel the same with women...it seems that women can be a lot pickier with each other.

In my experience, being bi means that you need to look and be the best of the best...or, people just assume that you are one of those people that are just looking to f*ck anything.

And, some people just think that anyway.

[Kate Simmons]

The Forum is a haven? Perhaps but really you'll never know what it feels like to be a woman unless ypu've been hit on at least 15 ways come Sunday, right Ladies? I've seen just about all of the come-ons in my time and managed to survive.;):)

[StephanieDragg]

My feeling is there is sexual identity, and sexual preference, always two separate things, once you walk out the door and express yourself a certain way , no matter how you represent yourself, you may attract someone, once you do you have to ask yourself are they attracted to me just because I am a cd/tg person or do they truly enjoy me as the person I am and want some kind of relationship that is friendly and respectful

[Debglam]

Men who dress as women are seen by other men as an opportunity for a good time. Why else would they apparently abandon their power as men? Men see women as sexual subordinates, they are the ones who get penetrated, so a feminine man is purposely subordinating himself. Obviously I know this isn't always or even mostly the case, but men who know nothing of this lifestyle except what they see on Craigslist have no reason to think otherwise. The fact is a LOT of cross dressing men are looking for sex too and to pretend otherwise is just kinda goofy.
Yeah, I think this is it. I think that it is why the admirers have such a hard time taking "No" for an answer. Why ELSE would I want to be out at a LGBT bar en femme if I didn't want to have sex with some sweaty, balding old guy? <heavy sarcasm, please!>

This forum is a refuge of sorts for those of us who want a place where we can be free from lewd come-ons or constant chat requests, but I've seen many of these CD.com girls around the net looking for some action because I'm doing the same thing. ;-)
Agreed as to the first part and I'll take your word on the second. Bottom line is why shouldn't any of us just be honest with our feelings, even if we keep it to ourselves?

Also, on the same lines, I was going to say that GGs have been dealing with creepy people forever...it doesn't phase me anymore. But, you can't encourage them. The weird guy at the bar that won't leave you alone and wants to buy you a drink, so you give up and allow him to buy you one... NO... Because, he's never going to go away now. You will literally have to leave the bar to get away from him. Why? Because, you give them an inch and they take a mile.
Oh yeah! Just say NO!

But I went to a few tranny bars with my SO when we were just beginning to out in public. And I tell ya ... the admirers I saw (all were middle aged but this doesn't mean there aren't more such as you describe) pretty well fit the M.O. described by someone who has been on the scene in the San Francisco area for years, and who wrote a book about it. His name is Dr. Richard (Alice) Novic. She wrote "Alice in Genderland".
It was actually LA.

*sigh*. And there are CDs who look hotter than other CDs, GGs who look hotter than other GGs, and GGs who look hotter than CDs. And men who look hotter than other men. :rolleyes: Oh, and there are also men who look hotter than some CDs.
And men who are into the sporty girl, the athletic girl, the intellectual type girl, the girl next door type. In my last comment to one of your posts, Sean, I thought you were starting to get away from all those blanket statements. :wall:
And here we go again. Now you are telling a GG what her sexual preference is and how she wants to be treated. :facepalm:
Reine, you have to have the patience of a saint or be a mother, one,the other, or both. . .:worship:

Reine,
Alice Novik creeps me out to no end. I'm glad I didn't stumble upon her book when I was first introduced to this lol.
Me too a little bit. I am really open minded but the whole “almost polygamy” thing in the book is on the edge of what I can get my head around. Hell, I’m just a wannabe soccer mom though! :battingeyelashes:

And, if two girls kiss at this bar. . .

Oh, a girl can dream. . .:daydreaming:

[ReineD]

Reine, you have to have the patience of a saint or be a mother, one,the other, or both. . .:worship:

It's both actually. :)

But I'll tell ya ... my patience has now run out and any more blanket statements that I catch, about *all* CDs and *all* GGs wanting manly men, are going to be deleted. Let this be a fair warning to Mr. Muscle.

[Marleena]

It's both actually. :)

But I'll tell ya ... my patience has now run out and any more blanket statements that I catch, about *all* CDs and *all* GGs wanting manly men, are going to be deleted. Let this be a fair warning to Mr. Muscle.

Yay!!! You're my hero Reine!:)

[Lorileah]

In good humor, I like this quote. But, I think the gay community can be "pickier" sometimes. Agreed in most instances. It is one thing I like about he gay community, I don't fit their requirements :)
We often talk about how if you are a gay guy, it seems like you have to spend so much more time on yourself to get a date than any straight guy. I often feel the same with women...it seems that women can be a lot pickier with each other.

I agree again but mostly in the perspective of older gays (and maybe women). Young gays I have met are still willing to jump anything that doesn't move quickly as you say


being bi means that you need to look and be the best of the best...or, people just assume that you are one of those people that are just looking to f*ck anything.


And to be honest there are many in certain areas of our community who buy into that. Which is why I tend to avoid the Tranny Bars

And Reine, you are a saint and hero to me

[Badtranny]

And Reine, you are a saint and hero to me

Agreed. She is a credit to her gender and one of the most empathetic people I've ever encountered. She understands things she's not supposed to know.

[Jenniferathome]

I have to agree that gg are not really that feminine anymore because of feminism. There are Cds who look hotter than gg. Straight men just love femininity.....pantyhose, heels, garter belts, dresses.

No Sean,straight men like WOMEN. NOT THEIR CLOTHES. No straight man in the history of time, would choose a crossdresser over a woman, regardless of their appearance. Those that would are bi or gay. I think you are struggling with your own identity.

[Marleena]

No Sean,straight men like WOMEN. NOT THEIR CLOTHES. No straight man in the history of time, would choose a crossdresser over a woman, regardless of their appearance. Those that would are bi or gay. I think you are struggling with your own identity.

Lol.. Sean has issues.

[whowhatwhen]

It's okay to be takei.

[JessicaM1985]

I'll be frank and honest, and hope that it doesn't send all you gals running in terror screaming "CREEP!".....

I'm a TG admirer myself and prefer to date them. Always have been. What it took me a lomg time to realize was that a lot of the traits I loved in women (both tg and gg) were traits I wanted in myself. I was also one of those knuckleheads that tried to justify being with a cd/tg was still straight. No, it isn't. Sorry to burst bubbles and sound like a cold B, but it's not.

That said, I like feminine things. Not all of them, but I like a lot of them. Girls, both gg and tg, do cool stuff that I enjoy and now my attraction is more about the fact that we have intersting things in common whereas before I was attracted to the "taboo" aspect of it.

Sling your arrows for I am ready. :P

[Prissy Linda]

What Lorileah said. Reine is a saint and my hero!!! I have been think the same thing for years, even my wife will at time read certain thread on the forum and will comment that Reine must be a saint. I just had to say it.

[Aprilrain]

IMO, any guy who wants a part time "girl" ie. a CD is probably gay or bi. I mean really! I don't think that is necessarily true of men who are interested in TSes. In my experience most of these guys have unrealistic expectations about a TS girls body, I can't tell you how many though my junk would work and how disappointed they seemed when i explained that was not in the cards! Also i'd say more than half of the men I talked to had gender issues of their own, either CD or closet TS! One guy had it in his head that we would become GFs and i'd like hold his hand through transition or something. NO THANKS! I think they feel that a TS woman will be more accepting of their gender issues. from what I can gather from talking to other TS woman that notion couldn't be farther from the truth, most TS woman I talk to wouldn't touch a CD or closet case TS with a ten foot pole!
I met my BF on a TS dating website, He told me he was a CD the first time we chatted and I was pretty sure I was not interested in dating a CD, also I thought he was too old for me. He seemed like a nice guy who took a genuine interest in me so we continued to chat over the course of a few months. In that time guys came and went most of those conversations were sexually charged which i didn't mind so much but it was clear there would be no real relationship. usually after a week or 2 I'd get pissed and block them, it was never like that with my BF though he was always a gentleman if anything I was the forward one! like when I finally decided that I was willing to meet him for dinner, I said "are you going to ask me out or what!" Anyway long story short it worked out we have been dating for about 6 months and it just feels like a normal relationship to me. I asked him why he wanted a girl like me, he said he wanted a girl who could think like a guy LOL little did he know! Ok maybe my "thinking" is somewhere in between and I can certainly relate to the male experience in a way that no GG could but still i don't think he considered how effective hormones are LOL

[Shananigans]

I liked your post. It makes sense...it kind of started out as a taboo type thing and then you realized you were attracted to people that reflect certain aspect of yourself.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

I don't think many people on here think that ALL people interested in TG people are creepy "admirer" types...I this were so, we would all be f*cling weird by our own definitions. Just some people who are interested in TG people are weird...just like some people interested in GGs, GMs, blah blah are weird.

Everyone seems scared on the forum lately lol


I'll be frank and honest, and hope that it doesn't send all you gals running in terror screaming "CREEP!".....

I'm a TG admirer myself and prefer to date them. Always have been. What it took me a lomg time to realize was that a lot of the traits I loved in women (both tg and gg) were traits I wanted in myself. I was also one of those knuckleheads that tried to justify being with a cd/tg was still straight. No, it isn't. Sorry to burst bubbles and sound like a cold B, but it's not.

That said, I like feminine things. Not all of them, but I like a lot of them. Girls, both gg and tg, do cool stuff that I enjoy and now my attraction is more about the fact that we have intersting things in common whereas before I was attracted to the "taboo" aspect of it.

Sling your arrows for I am ready. :P

[Alice Torn]

It seems like males that are not gay, are simply drawn like magnets, to pleasant feminine forms. I agree that many men simply cannot attain an attractive gg, so, when they see a gorgeous cd tg, they are drawn to us. The price is very high, on attractive ggs. We are easier, for them, at least they think so. I have only met one, almost met several others. Sadly, sex is what they want right away. The image of attractive feminine form is so hard wired in the average male, that many are willing to do "it" with a cdtg, if the cdtg looks great. Sex starved, lonely men are legion today, and many will take it any way they can get it. Which, makes us sex objects, just like GGs. Sad reality, in a sad world.

[Melissa Rose]

When out hunting, a hunter will select the forest with the highest number of desired prey. Admirers are going to frequent chat rooms or bars with the highest number of t-girls. It is simply a matter of numbers and statistics. I'm frequently out in a wide variety of mainstream places and have been overtly hit on only one time by a guy who read me. The occasional times I'm at one of the main t-girl hang out in town, the male admirers are there and I get hit on depending on the situation. They seem to fall into the two groups of aggressive/persistent or reasonably well mannered with most being in the former group. Then there are the ones that stay in the distance and just watch. I call them the orbiters. There are also the t-girls who have overtly or hinted at wanting more than just friendship. If I based my assessment on the t-girl and gay bars and places like CraigsList and chat rooms, yes, there seems to be a lot of admirers out there with many interested in one thing and wanting it now. If I look at the rest of my world, no, there are not a lot of admirers out there.

To echo what others have said, in my experience most of the male admirers are looking only for sex. Many only want discreet encounters and do not want to date in any form. Once they find out I don't dive right into getting physical (not that there is anything majorly wrong with that between consulting adults, it is just not the way I fly) and require getting to know each other by going out on a few public dates, 90%+ lose interest right away. Then there are the few that want to jump right into a LTR relationship, but they tend to be on-line and not in person.

From my experience and observations, it comes down to a simple thought......if you swim in waters with ample bait, there will be sharks of various types.




I've done a lot of surfing the net and find there are a lot of CD/TG/TS admirers, but they're mostly men. Many claim to be straight, so what are they really after? I wish more females were admirers.

If you're out in public have you encountered them?

Good or bad experiences?

Are they just all looking for sex ( I hope not)?

I know some of the TG girls here may be admirers too. Not being judgemental.:)

No Scarlet..I'm not one of them, although we do have pretty girls here.:)

[JessicaM1985]

I liked your post. It makes sense...it kind of started out as a taboo type thing and then you realized you were attracted to people that reflect certain aspect of yourself.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

I don't think many people on here think that ALL people interested in TG people are creepy "admirer" types...I this were so, we would all be f*cling weird by our own definitions. Just some people who are interested in TG people are weird...just like some people interested in GGs, GMs, blah blah are weird.

Everyone seems scared on the forum lately lol



Thanks. :)
I just get kinda shy when it comes to talking about attractions, particularly when it comes to transgenders on a forum for transgenders/cds, because it always seems to create a weird tension and I'd rather keep my mouth shut and enjoy the fun stuff. Im the same way in guy mode when talking about my attractions to men when surrounded by guys. Thougjts of creeper swell up and it makes me just as uncomfortable as they get. But I figure that I'd put this out here so that people realize that it's not all middle aged macho men that love tg/cds. Of course, awesome G.G.s like yourself exist to and we love you for it. :)

I suppose part of my nervousness is the fact that I'm still kinda new here and I want to be accepted. :)

[ReineD]

I'll be frank and honest, and hope that it doesn't send all you gals running in terror screaming "CREEP!".....

I'm a TG admirer myself and prefer to date them. Always have been. What it took me a lomg time to realize was that a lot of the traits I loved in women (both tg and gg) were traits I wanted in myself.

I don't think you're a creep, nor do I think anyone will sling arrows at your post. I agree with Shananigans, sexual preferences are not black and white, meaning there is no "rule" that says we must all be attracted to either men or women. There are many points in between the gender binary and it makes sense there will be people who are attracted to gender non-conformists. I believe, however, that members of the TG or LGB communities are more open to such attractions than cispeople.

That said, your post is honest. You are attracted to a CDer and you also are a CDer. You are not engaging in the denial over this, that is at issue in this thread. You do not try to tell everyone that you are in fact a straight male with no gender issues and that your love interest is a woman when he is dressed.




... to all the people who said nice things about me, thank you! :) But please, I'm far from being a saint. Ask my kids! :)

[Marleena]

I don't think you're a creep, nor do I think anyone will sling arrows at your post. I agree with Shananigans, sexual preferences are not black and white, meaning there is no "rule" that says we must all be attracted to either men or women. There are many points in between the gender binary and it makes sense there will be people who are attracted to gender non-conformists. I believe, however, that members of the TG or LGB communities are more open to such attractions than cispeople.

That said, your post is honest. You are attracted to a CDer and you also are a CDer. You are not engaging in the denial over this, that is at issue in this thread. You do not try to tell everyone that you are in fact a straight male with no gender issues and that your love interest is a woman when he is dressed.

Thanks Reine, I posted the original question to learn more about admirers. Once I'm out in the real world I may encounter them too.

This thread has given me answers as to why there are admirers, and it's not all bad either.:)

Just call me niave.:)

[ReineD]

This thread has given me answers as to why there are admirers, and it's not all bad either.:)

Just call me niave.

But don't forget ... just as there are some people like Jessica who look for genuine relationships (BTW, I don't see Jessica as an admirer ... I see Jessica as a CDer), there are others who are in it just for the sex and they will use every fantasy, every line imaginable to get it, if they do run into someone whom they believe is naive.

On the other hand, if both the CDer and the admirer own up to just wanting sex, if they both have active imaginations able to fantasize they are a cis-couple and they own up to this as well, then there's no harm, is there. :p

[Shananigans]

I believe, however, that members of the TG or LGB communities are more open to such attractions than cispeople.

I WISH there was a study on this. I hear this a lot on this forum, and it does seem to be true... However, I never really see any statistical research that has been done on this subject, so I just rely on what my friends say from their own experiences.

I know that I have always identified as bisexual since sex was on my mind...even if I had troubles admitting it to myself. However, I never really thought about dating a TG person. I kind of relied on the public image of what is a CD and what is a TS, and most of those images are kind of Drag Queenish/bad comedy/pornstar. If you had asked me 4 years ago about dating TG people, I would have given a very vague answer. Why? Because, I had no freaking clue. I wonder if once people in the "community" met people that were trans, if they would openly admit that they would be down for dating trans people. Not just for sex, but like out-and-out dating and saying, "This is my boyfriend (if FTM)...or, this is my girlfriend (if MTF)." (It may be very apparent that there aren't very many trans people in my college's LGBT group lol...and, when I say there aren't many, I actually mean there are none).

And, would you call us "admirers." I feel like this is such a sticky term. I feel I am no more an admire of a TG person than I am a GG or a GM. When you pretty much could have a relationship with anyone that you find attractive and interesting, what kind of "admiration" is this? It just seems weird, because I would call straight guys interested in bi girls "admirers"...and, likewise with lesbians.

I kind of hate the default admirer term. (Mainly because of the creepily implied special interest, and the other weirdness that goes with it). But, I don't really like pansexual either. With CDs and TSs, they are outwardly portraying a certain gender...usually. (I have met a few that are honestly just about the clothes, but they still are portraying their natal gender). So, unless you are having everyone strip down to the bare essentials, you are either judging this person's appearance as a woman or as a male. So, isn't this still bisexuality? Doesn't pansexual kind of imply that TSs can never really be women (or, men if FTM)?

IDK this is kind of a side-note, but feel it is somewhat applicable. I think the term "admirer" sucks because it implies that you pay some kind of special attention to trans people over other people. And, pansexual sucks because it implies that TSs aren't really fitting into the gender that they feel they should have been born.

So, hmmm....

Okay, done rambling.

[kimdl93]

I hesitated on responding to this one, because, Shanna. I have a somewhat perjorative opinion of "admirers", although I quite honestly have never met one. I assocaite the term with the seamier side of the internet - web sites that cater strictly to sexual cravings. (Not that I have anything against sexual fantasies or cravings, mind you) It may not be a fair association, but that's what comes to mind.

I would very strongly differentiate between individuals who are attracted to TG people in real life from those who may lurk around the aforementioned sites. In recent months, I have met a number of women - bright, intelligent and inquisitive women seemed very interested in getting to know me. I don't know that they were necessarily attracted to me because I was presenting as female, or not....but it wasn't a deterent. Are they admirers? I probably wouldn't characterize them that way.

As for men, I've been out to a number of gay bars in recent months, and have yet to be hit on by a guy. So, if there are admirers out there, apparently they don't hang out in the CD friendly places that I frequent.

[moondog]

Personally I think there are so many "admirers" because a lot of men want to try hot dogs without actually having the hotdog attached to a dude. So long as the hotdog is attached to a "female" they really don't have to accept the fact they had sex with another guy. Another reason, perhaps, is the whole "wish I had a girl with the sex drive of a man" thing. Maybe it's just a fetish...I worked with a woman who had a massive fetish for asian men. A quick look around the web will show you all of the white women who have sex with black men. They don't want to date them or have any meaningfull relationship, they just want a black snake. The "admirers" that I have seen all appear to only want sex with a CD or Trans without having any relationship. That shows me that most of them have a sexual fetish with CDs and Transgender people.

There are so many kinks out there it's nearly impossible to know them all.

I also do not like the term "admirer" because it almost sounds a little like stalker.

[Lynn Marie]

To be quite honest, I'm attracted to well dressed and good looking women, and also to men who are dressed and made up to emulate well dressed and good looking women. Does that make me an admirer? When my CD friends and I go out to our favorite LGBT club and elsewhere, we are usually the best dressed and best looking females in the place! Need to find places with a better quality of females.

[Shananigans]

To be quite honest, I'm attracted to well dressed and good looking women, and also to men who are dressed and made up to emulate well dressed and good looking women. Does that make me an admirer? When my CD friends and I go out to our favorite LGBT club and elsewhere, we are usually the best dressed and best looking females in the place! Need to find places with a better quality of females.

Hmmm...it might be NW Washington. I've never noticed a decline of beautiful people (in general) in the South. But, a lot of girls grow up competing in pageants...mainly, because our mothers did it growing up. Sororities are also REALLY huge here. I did the whole pageant and sorority thing too...so, did most of my friends. I always hear CDs complain about how GGs look/dress, and I wonder what rock they live under. However, maybe I'm the one living under a rock...but, it's a pretty rock.

[JessicaM1985]

You know Shana, I've always wondered about the term pansexual myself. I didn't want to offend people by using it at first in case they took it to mean that I think that TS aren't the gender they present themselves. (FTM or MTF)
I myself am now identifying as TS and get kind of mad when people don't fecognize me as female, so I understand the anger. But I still use it because there are CDs that still identify as their biological sex, but just love the clothes/style of the opposite sex. There are also genderqueers and such that don't fit into or want to be associated the gender binary. Pansexual covers them as well, so I don't see it as a degratory term. :)

[Marleena]

But don't forget ... just as there are some people like Jessica who look for genuine relationships (BTW, I don't see Jessica as an admirer ... I see Jessica as a CDer), there are others who are in it just for the sex and they will use every fantasy, every line imaginable to get it, if they do run into someone whom they believe is naive.

On the other hand, if both the CDer and the admirer own up to just wanting sex, if they both have active imaginations able to fantasize they are a cis-couple and they own up to this as well, then there's no harm, is there. :p

To each their own Reine.:) Married CD's like myself do not want to be hit on. I'm not interested in sex, or other relationships.

It is an interesting topic. I guess the main reason is the CDer is dressing feminine, and is attracting males that want to fulfill their fantasies. But then again maybe not??

[NicoleScott]

When out hunting, a hunter will select the forest with the highest number of desired prey. Admirers are going to frequent chat rooms or bars with the highest number of t-girls. It is simply a matter of numbers and statistics.
Many only want discreet encounters and do not want to date in any form. Once they find out I don't dive right into getting physical (not that there is anything majorly wrong with that between consulting adults, it is just not the way I fly) and require getting to know each other by going out on a few public dates, 90%+ lose interest right away.


Interesting post, Melissa Rose. I suspect that everything you said was right on the mark. Not to overdo the hunting analogy, but what you said is true if you're after numbers. Trophy hunters hunt where there are fewer numbers, and they work harder and have more patience to get their trophy.

I used to visit cd chat rooms a lot, and had many nice conversations with other cd's and cd admirers. When a chat connection was made, my first question was "cd or admirer?". No judgement there, I just wanted to know who I was chatting with. After a while I learned how to quickly weed out the ones whose objectives were different than mine, such as Melissa Rose mentioned. I never had any intention, nor did I lead any admirer on in believing, that I wanted a meeting. I wanted chat, and so did some of them. And had some very good chats with some very nice admirers.

I don't have a problem with the term admirer. I just take it for what it is - someone who, for one reason or another, is attracted to (admires) cd's. I talked to alot of creepy ones, and when I don't like how the conversation is going, dismiss them politely or, if necessary, with an unpolite <click> . But that's no reason for me to heap baggage on the nice ones. Admirers admire, and if they do something else let's define them with the appropriate term.

[ReineD]

I would very strongly differentiate between individuals who are attracted to TG people in real life from those who may lurk around the aforementioned sites. In recent months, I have met a number of women - bright, intelligent and inquisitive women seemed very interested in getting to know me. I don't know that they were necessarily attracted to me because I was presenting as female, or not....but it wasn't a deterent. Are they admirers? I probably wouldn't characterize them that way.


I agree with Kim. There is a big difference between an attraction to someone who also happens to crossdress, and a fetish for a particular group of people just for sex. Moondog in post #74 points out several racial fetishes (not to be confused with a real attraction to someone of a different race), such as white women who are into black men, caucasian men who are into oriental women, etc.

I would not like to be an object of someone else's fetish unless of course I was looking strictly for sex and nothing else. I do recognize there are people who don't wish for more than purely sexual relationships and this is fine too, if they are realistic about the particular fetishes they are into. But I have little tolerance when someone is not up front with what they're doing. If two men, one of whom is dressed, are getting off on the fantasy they are a straight couple behind closed doors, that's fine, but please don't come here and say this is who you are. :p

Back to the term "admirer", Shannon, the term has been adopted by members of this community to denote men who have a fetish for other men dressed as women. This doesn't mean that the rest of us don't admire or love various individuals, but I wouldn't call myself an admirer for being into my SO. If I weren't in a relationship with my SO I wouldn't be hanging around in bars or on CraigsList looking for other CDers to have sex with. I wouldn't negate the possibility of being in a relationship with another CDer either, but the fact that he CDs would be just a small part of my overall attraction to him, should we hit it off. :)


When my CD friends and I go out to our favorite LGBT club and elsewhere, we are usually the best dressed and best looking females in the place! Need to find places with a better quality of females.

Tastes vary between cultures, age groups, and individuals. I'm sure you look very nice and all, but someone in their 20s who has an edgier style might not like the style of clothes you wear and to them, you wouldn't be the best dressed and best looking female there. This is not meant as an insult, just a reminder to recognize that other people's tastes may be different than your own. :p

[Lorileah]

To each their own Reine.:) Married CD's like myself do not want to be hit on. I'm not interested in sex, or other relationships.

Not unlike many married AND unmarried women who just want to be out, have fun and relax. Welcome to the real world where some people don't like to be polite or civilized (mostly because they have been taught that this is what men do and this is what women do). I have found that in the majority of cases a simple "No thank you" works well.

[Debglam]

Not unlike many married AND unmarried women who just want to be out, have fun and relax. Welcome to the real world where some people don't like to be polite or civilized (mostly because they have been taught that this is what men do and this is what women do). I have found that in the majority of cases a simple "No thank you" works well.

My experience is very limited but I think that this is what the difference between a "good" admirer and a creep are. I am comfortable enough in my own skin to not have a problem being hit on by a man, woman, whatever and whoever. BUT(!!!!) when a simple "no thank you" doesn't end the interaction, we are now in creep mode!

[Marleena]

I have found that in the majority of cases a simple "No thank you" works well.

In my manly voice should do the trick.:)

Maybe a wedding ring might help the cause?

[Barbara Dugan]

I like this thread, kind of interesting how we are trying to dissect the psyche of an admirer when only a hand full has been on the same room and bed with one and believe me even like that...trying to put a label on their sexuality is not easy . I understand how and why an straight cross dresser may get upset if one make an unsolicited advanced. I am on the other hand I am always on the look for a nice one, I get hit a lot by other crossdressers but I am not really into, I prefer the husky straight acting Bisexual guys:daydreaming: I guess I am also some sort of admirer

[Marleena]

If we think logically on this we (TG girls) are GM's dressed as females. It is rational thinking for the unknowing to think we are wanting to be female, and thusly attracted to or wanting to attract males. Survey says most CDer's are straight however.

In my case if a male found me attractive enfemme it would feel good (affirmation). His motive might only be sexual though. Some of the TG girls fantasize about being with men when dressed for the affirmation of them being female.

I think the only true answers can come from the admirers themselves, or girls that have had experience with them. Interesting topic though.

[ReineD]

I guess I am also some sort of admirer

Hmm. Several people in this thread have now said they are admirers. This is a bit tricky, because once again, we only have one term to describe two or more different things: the group of men known throughout this community who are specifically into men who are dressed as women and are into them just for sex, and all other people who might be attracted to a person for a long term relationship, who also are either CD or TS. (Although based on the sheer volume of posts from gay and straight CDs who say they have a hard time finding long-term partners, I'd say this is rather rare).

What to do? We might agree as a forum on the same understanding of the popular definition for "Admirer", and stop calling ourselves admirers when we are in fact attracted to someone who falls outside of the gender binary. Maybe we can simply say that we have an attraction, with the understanding that the "chick with d*ck" ideal is not the only thing that forms the attraction, and we are attracted for more than sex?

If two CDers or two TSs, or one CDer with a TS, or a cisperson with either a CDer or a TS find happiness in one another as a couple, would we call them admirers? I wouldn't.

[Badtranny]

I like this thread, kind of interesting how we are trying to dissect the psyche of an admirer when only a hand full has been on the same room and bed with one

Bingo baby, it IS funny when people form all sorts of opinion about these "greasy" admirers yet have never even met one in person. I won't give creepy people of any stripe any reason to believe they can play with me. I like people in general and I am open to chat or dance with most anyone who asks, but some people are more interesting than others. I assume any guy who shows an interest in me knows what I am and frankly it doesn't matter to me if he digs T-girls exclusively or just wants to walk on the wild side for a bit. If I'm interested than I'll let him know. I've even made out with women on the dance floor, (cuz chicks love to kiss). Why even go to the club if you don't want to dance and have a good time? Life is too short to hope nobody notices you, and God bless the "admirer", because queer T-girls need love too.

Oh and Barbie, blue is your color honeybuns. ;-)

[whowhatwhen]

I can agree with that, I mean aside from 100% straight people who doesn't LTC but if you're a guy out trolling for some sausage don't hide behind "straight" and try to justify it by adding "because they're feminine looking" as an escape.
It just kinda irks me as it feels like because they're "straight" they're better and by god they're going to remind you about it.

------------------
I generalized a bit, but to be fair I have more issues than TV Guide.
I'm gonna lurk more for a while. :)

[Melissa Rose]

It just kinda irks me as it feels like because they're "straight" they're better and by god they're going to remind you about it.

I have never gotten the impression a male admirer was coming across as being better because he was claiming to be straight. Nor has any reminded me about it outside of the initial mention, if it even occurred at all. It is only a label as far as I'm concerned. He can call himself whatever he likes especially if he is paying for dinner. :-) It does not change a thing since his actions is the real measure.

As previously mentioned by others, there are creepy admirers and very nice admirers and a bunch somewhere in between. Unfortunately, the creepy ones give the rest a bad name. This is true in any group, including the various flavors of transgendered, where a few negatively taint the rest. Stay away from the creeps, and be polite, but firm when necessary, to the rest. If you can't do that, it may be best to stay away from the places where the admirers congregate. Actually, my worse experiences were with guys who apparently did not know I was transgendered and were being quite aggressive or jerks. T-girl admirers do not have a monopoly on creepy, scary, clueless and/or stupid. I give them all the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

[Shananigans]

If I weren't in a relationship with my SO I wouldn't be hanging around in bars or on CraigsList looking for other CDers to have sex with. I wouldn't negate the possibility of being in a relationship with another CDer either, but the fact that he CDs would be just a small part of my overall attraction to him, should we hit it off. :)

That's a good point, Reine. If my SO and I were to break it off for some reason, I would still be open to dating another CD. But, it wouldn't take a precedence in my life. I would be just as likely to date a CD as I would a TS and any GG or GM (without gender conflicts). I think the difference between what we think of as an "admirer" and someone like you or me is that we wouldn't be the type to troll hard on a CD chat or CL to find another CD. The people that are doing that I STILL think are mainly fetishists for mixed genitalia or fetishists for "chicks with d*cks" that watch too much porn. (I hate saying that, but it's applicable). I wouldn't say that ALL are, but I feel it's true for the majority. And, I just find it very...odd. But, I find the whole racial fetish thing disturbing too. My best friend from middle school is Asian (though I argue that she is the whitest person I know), and she won't really date any guy that has dated Asians back-to-back. She calls them "Asiaphiles." When she told me this, I laughed my a$$ off...but, then, I realized she was serious. And, I got the same icky vibes that she did about the situation. She even found one of her boyfriends (now ex) on like an Asian fetish site and he was talking to other white guys about how Asian chicks are the best and about their tiny boobs and petite bodies. She said it made her feel like a joke. :(


Hmm. Several people in this thread have now said they are admirers. This is a bit tricky, because once again, we only have one term to describe two or more different things: the group of men known throughout this community who are specifically into men who are dressed as women and are into them just for sex, and all other people who might be attracted to a person for a long term relationship, who also are either CD or TS. (Although based on the sheer volume of posts from gay and straight CDs who say they have a hard time finding long-term partners, I'd say this is rather rare).

What to do? We might agree as a forum on the same understanding of the popular definition for "Admirer", and stop calling ourselves admirers when we are in fact attracted to someone who falls outside of the gender binary. Maybe we can simply say that we have an attraction, with the understanding that the "chick with d*ck" ideal is not the only thing that forms the attraction, and we are attracted for more than sex?

If two CDers or two TSs, or one CDer with a TS, or a cisperson with either a CDer or a TS find happiness in one another as a couple, would we call them admirers? I wouldn't.

^^^ THIS!!!! It's perfect!


I assume any guy who shows an interest in me knows what I am and frankly it doesn't matter to me if he digs T-girls exclusively or just wants to walk on the wild side for a bit. [...] Life is too short to hope nobody notices you, and God bless the "admirer", because queer T-girls need love too.

I'm asking this in all honesty...do you ever feel like you deserve better/sell yourself short? You seem like a well-educated, attractive person...don't you kind of want something a little more substantial? Or, do you just kind of feel that the guy that is into you for having read "what you are" is all that you can hope for?

I do agree with Alice Novik that a lot of the guys that my SO and I have bumped into seem to be kind of failed in some way. The guys that have been sort of shunned. I often wonder if they find home and a place with TG people because of how low some TG people's self-esteems might be. (I am not trying to imply that your self-esteem is low, and please tell me if I am reading too deeply...I do this ALL of the time). A lot of my friends (me included) put on a sort of game face when we go out, and we will plan ways to get around crazy guys at the bar that we don't have time to be bothered with. I wonder how many other GGs are playing this sort of game. And, I wonder how many TG people are all too flattered that the attention was paid towards them and fall into it.

[ReineD]

As previously mentioned by others, there are creepy admirers and very nice admirers and a bunch somewhere in between. Unfortunately, the creepy ones give the rest a bad name.

I'm glad you've posted this, since you're someone who can answer some questions. :)

I gather you've met men that might be defined as "admirer", meaning they specifically are attracted to CDers, or pre-op TSs, and they weren't the creepy variety (the guys who send pics of their genitals to unsuspecting facebook members.

Where do you meet these men specifically, and what are they after (companionship, sex, or both)? Are they looking to be in a relationship with a TG (CD or TS) where the intimacy and good times move beyond the bedroom? Is there an emotional bond with the TG (even if the relationship does not go beyond several months)? Do they exhibit the same dating habits as men who date GGs (dinners in restaurants, evenings that don't necessarily involve sex, introducing her to coworkers and friends, you know ... just being with her because he really enjoys her company and including her in all the other aspects of his life.

Do these admirers also date GGs, in other words, is it a feminine person they fall in love with regardless of anatomy?

Do you know of any admirers who've been with a pre-op TS who eventually had SRS, and did the relationship last after the surgery?

And last, how many of these admirers are married to women who do not know what they are up to, and would this explain their inability to have anything other than a sexual relationship with a TG? :p

[Barbara Dugan]

Do these admirers also date GGs, in other words, is it a feminine person they fall in love with regardless of anatomy?

Do you know of any admirers who've been with a pre-op TS who eventually had SRS, and did the relationship last after the surgery?


And last, how many of these admirers are married to women who do not know what they are up to, and would this explain their inability to have anything other than a sexual relationship with a TG?




Yes they do, the vast majority do. It is rare the one that only date T-girls, those are very nice ones

Yes I' ve been approached by a few of those and most of them feel betrayed and bitter about it most of them felt they were used....I try to avoid that kind it's not fun being a replacement or crying pillow

In the past I used date only married ones because it what I was looking at, just a sexual relationship and that made feel more secure but I got an email from a wife and that incident changed my perspective..now there is no more married ones even if they look like Brad Pitt:doh: :p

[ReineD]

but I got an email from a wife and that incident changed my perspective..now there is no more married ones even if they look like Brad Pitt:doh: :p

I'm so glad she emailed you. Good for her!! :)

I don't admire men who cheat behind their wives' backs. So, I guess now I can officially call myself a "non-admirer"? .... wait, no I can't, because I do admire my SO. Maybe I'm a non-admirer sometimes, and an admirer the rest of the time?

Now I'm all confused. :D

[Badtranny]

I'm asking this in all honesty...do you ever feel like you deserve better/sell yourself short? You seem like a well-educated, attractive person...don't you kind of want something a little more substantial? Or, do you just kind of feel that the guy that is into you for having read "what you are" is all that you can hope for?

Well this can get kind of deep but I'll try and skim across the surface. The truth is that I am an incurable flirt, but alas if I don't feel the tingle, I won't be in the mood to mingle. I don't want to say I'm all talk cuz I have indeed seen a cockatoo, but I am much pickier than I probably let on. I haven't had sex in quite awhile and last time I did, it was with the only guy I was seeing all last year. Keep in mind that I came out as gay back in 06 and considered myself bi for years before that, so attention from men is nothing new to me. Being with a guy doesn't make me feel anything but sexy. I don't need them to validate my femininity or whatever and I certainly don't need to be cross dressed before I can be with one. Having said that, I still flirt and dance with men and women, because that's just plain fun.

Do I want more? Why yes absolutely, but as long as my face looks the way it does my relationship options are limited. I'm transitioning because I don't identify as a gay man. I am attracted to big alpha straight dudes. I yearn for the day when I can meet and have a conversation with a guy who might like me without having any idea that I used to look like a dude. I literally hate looking like a cross dresser which is exactly what I look like right now, which is why I rarely do it anymore. I went out with a really sweet guy last night and though he identifies as gay, he seemed to be really into me. So you never know, but yes I think you may be reading a little too deeply. I'm mostly playing counterpoint to the prevailing puritanism on the board.

[busker]

My feeling is there is sexual identity, and sexual preference, always two separate things, once you walk out the door and express yourself a certain way , no matter how you represent yourself, you may attract someone, once you do you have to ask yourself are they attracted to me just because I am a cd/tg person or do they truly enjoy me as the person I am and want some kind of relationship that is friendly and respectful

pointing out the obvious, that is a question that has created the pre-nuptual agreement, why celebrities avoid "fans", why rich people shy away from poor, hangers-on, etc. I have read a number of times, that beautiful women have a hard time getting a date because for one, guys may be too shy to ask, but also if they want to date a beautiful person simply the woman happens to be beautiful. It is a basic insecurity that in some way effects us all. Do people really want us for who we are?

[Shananigans]

Melissa,

Haha I know you like to lighten us all up a bit. :) My friends just took me out for margaritas because I needed to take my "serial face" off. (South Path Al Gore episode reference, btw).

Also, I don't really see what you are talking about with your face. You look like any natal woman that I would know. I hope that things work out with this new guy! I don't know how I would feel about the identification of "gay" from him...but, we can all go through growth in our sexuality at times. He's probably more bi than he knows.

[ReineD]

I'm mostly playing counterpoint to the prevailing puritanism on the board.

There's a lot of that certainly, but I also see attempts to try to cut through all the fantasy. And you're a huge ally in this regard. I admire that you tell it like it is.

That said, many members are here specifically for the fantasy. Yet they know who they are. They log off this forum and go mow the lawns or put oil in their wives' cars. And I dare say they wouldn't change any of this. But while logged on, for a brief shining moment they are the girl of their dreams, this beautiful creature that holds men's hearts in her hand. These men are not interested in cutting through the fantasy. This forum is a respite for them.

The trouble is, their friends' wives become members and read their posts, and it creates all sorts of havoc in their lives because they don't know if their husbands share the same fantasies.

It's kinda like living in a large country with people who have origins from all over the world, and are all over the map in terms of education and socio-economic backgrounds. There is a huge melting pot and it's hard to strike a balance where everyone will be happy.

[Badtranny]

I don't know how I would feel about the identification of "gay" from him...but, we can all go through growth in our sexuality at times. He's probably more bi than he knows.

Yes probably, but it's refreshing to have a dude just come out and say it. When I first started experimenting with cross dressing back in 08 or 09 I "dated" a lot more and pretty much every guy insisted he was straight. I don't know who they were trying to fool, (perhaps themselves) but this was pre HRT and they didn't seem very straight to me. ;-) Whatever gets you through the night right?

New guy was a perfect gentleman, but as much as I would want a relationship, I don't think I have much to offer a sweet guy looking for something real. I'm a little bit focused on my transition right now and it's an entirely selfish pursuit.

[Badtranny]

These men are not interested in cutting through the fantasy. This forum is a respite for them.

I'm ashamed to say that I had not considered that. I have no idea why because it seems perfectly obvious after reading it, but until right now, I had a fairly dim view of the fantasy crowd. Good Lord RD, you could bring peace to the Middle East. ;-)

Perspective. Gotta love it.

[ReineD]

New guy was a perfect gentleman, but as much as I would want a relationship, I don't think I have much to offer a sweet guy looking for something real. I'm a little bit focused on my transition right now and it's an entirely selfish pursuit.

Taking care of yourself while you're undergoing an immense change is not selfish. You've structured your life in order to do so unfettered, and this also is not selfish. But don't sell yourself short. You have a great deal to offer in any relationship and I should think the person you end up with will be very fortunate indeed! You can't decide for someone else what they need. They are well able to decide for themselves. :)

[Lorileah]

Maybe a wedding ring might help the cause?


Probably not. As they say that ring don't plug no holes

[Marleena]

Probably not. As they say that ring don't plug no holes

A chastity belt then? lol. j/k

[Shananigans]

Marleena, I had thought an engagement ring and band might detract people from my SO too. I don't know if it's necessarily true, but they'd still look pretty! Lol

So, I vote yes!

[Marleena]

Marleena, I had thought an engagement ring and band might detract people from my SO too. I don't know if it's necessarily true, but they'd still look pretty! Lol

So, I vote yes!

*Sigh* I do like pretty! (sometimes if feel pathetic saying that).lol :)

[KaTanya]

Interesting discussion. A lot of the dynamics described remind me of the musician-groupie relationship dynamics. Not what I consider a solid foundation for a LTR, but can be fun times for both parties involved as long as both (all) parties are in agreement, although I've read some horror stories about some of the true "creeps" being violent towards TGs after getting what they want (or not getting it...) That's disturbing, but not less so than having them do it to a GG under similar circumstances.

[Melissa Rose]

I'm glad you've posted this, since you're someone who can answer some questions. :)

I gather you've met men that might be defined as "admirer", meaning they specifically are attracted to CDers, or pre-op TSs, and they weren't the creepy variety (the guys who send pics of their genitals to unsuspecting facebook members.
Exactly. Not all male admirers are creepy, pervy, skeevy and/or scary. I’m also making a distinction between t-girl admirers who are sexually attracted to other t-girls.


Where do you meet these men specifically...?
The two most common meeting places are in a bar, club or similar place, and some form of on-line contact (e.g., chat room, Facebook, Flickr, URNA, etc.). In both cases, my presence is not for the primary purpose of finding someone for a relationship or casual sex, but to socialize, be with friends and enjoy being out. I have met a few admirers through friends, or at a LGBT or transgender specific gathering or event. Only once has a man asked me out (for dinner) in a mainstream location (gas station) who definitely knew I was transgendered (he told me). I have been asked out a few times by other men, but I’m very certain they thought I was a GG since it has only happened when out with one or more of my GG friends. After a while being out in the mainstream, you develop a sense as to whether you’ve been positively read or not. While not perfect, it’s very accurate.


...and what are they after (companionship, sex, or both)?
If the initial contact was at a bar or club where t-girls are known to be, it is almost always about sex whether it is by one of the frequently seen, well-known admirers or unknown admirers. Nearly all show no class or style, and some are quite aggressive often requiring some of the more experienced girls to chase them off of a newer girl. There are exceptions, but they are rare. Only once have I been asked out for a dinner date instead wanting to meet up for immediate sex. IMHO, if you are looking for anything besides hooking up, a bar, club, etc. is not the place to be searching or expecting anything different.

If the initial contact was via some form of on-line connection, the expressed desire crosses the entire range. There is something about chat rooms that bring out the worst behavior (e.g., crude, disgusting) and semi-delusional behavior (e.g., willing to travel across to US for a date or re-locate to be closer without knowing more than a tiny bit about me). There is a lot of fantasy and wishful thinking related to the latter since the internet makes many very brave and/or stupid. If you are in a sex or naughty chat room, obviously, it is all about sex. The nicest guys I have met have been via on-line contact. They see one of my profiles somehow and contact me because they are in the area. A few are local, but a number are in the area on business. The end goal is sex (I'm not that naive), but some want companionship more in the form of someone whose company they enjoy. These are the guys I usually end up going out with. I have never met anyone who was only interested in companionship when they initiated the contact.


Are they looking to be in a relationship with a TG (CD or TS) where the intimacy and good times move beyond the bedroom? Is there an emotional bond with the TG (even if the relationship does not go beyond several months)?
I have met some on-line who were looking for a LTR and a serious partner. I have never gone out with anyone who I knew or suspected was looking for a serious relationship since it is not what I am looking for. Leading them to think there was any possibility by going out with them would be cruel and taking advantage of the situation. Even after explaining I was not interested in a LTR, some say it is OK, but I know they are hoping to change my mind which is not going to happen. Once any kind of emotional bond gets formed, things can get messy since hurt feelings are bound to happen.


Do they exhibit the same dating habits as men who date GGs (dinners in restaurants, evenings that don't necessarily involve sex, introducing her to coworkers and friends, you know ... just being with her because he really enjoys her company and including her in all the other aspects of his life.
I use a “date me like a GG” process as a screening mechanism for anyone I go out with. This often eliminates 90%+ of those who want to “get to know” me. I make it clear that the first date is a short coffee date or something similar. It is always in a public place, and I can escape after a short time if I feel the need or desire. If the vibe is right then there is a second date a week or more afterwards. Dinner and drinks is typical, and it is nothing more which is also made clear beforehand. By the end of the second date, I get a decent sense of whether I want to go out again and take it beyond just going out.

I have several reasons for insisting on this format. Obviously, one is to make it solely not about sex and that it is understood from the beginning. Another is to weed out all those who are willing, or say they are willing, to travel a substantial distance from assuming there is a guarantee of sex. It is quite effective, and I do not blame them for balking at it. It also eliminates the ones who want to keep everything discreet for whatever reason. I want to go out with someone who is confident enough in themselves to be seen in public with me. Most importantly, but a bit idealistic, is I want to go out with someone who also sees me as a person and not only as a t-girl they are physically attracted to. There is more to me than my physical format, clothes, hair and makeup. I’m totally out in the mainstream and very comfortable with it, and I hope they are too. I’m sensitive to the fear of being seen with a transgendered date so I’m willing to go to places that minimize the possibility of discovery by someone they know. If they want me to meet their friends or interact with others they know, I’m fine with it. This has never happened with me except meeting a few of his friends for a drink or two while we were out.

To directly answer the original question, no, very few admirers exhibit the same dating habits as men who date GGs. The ones that do are usually the ones I’m most interested or attracted to. This means I do not date a lot. They are out there, you have to look in the right places, and be selective and patient. It is really not a whole lot different than dating in the traditional heterosexual world.


Do these admirers also date GGs, in other words, is it a feminine person they fall in love with regardless of anatomy?
From my experiences, all of the men have dated GGs or been married. I suspect some may be married, but I have to accept their word that they are not. My BS detector is usually pretty good, but it is not perfect. One question I always ask during the coffee date is “Why are you interested or attracted to t-girls?” Most give the standard reply of “Women are not feminine enough or care about their appearance anymore” or “Women have too much drama or are too high maintenance”. If taken at face value then it is the feminine person they are attracted to and not the anatomy. My instincts and gut tell me it is something different in most cases. A few have replied with what I feel it the most honest answer which is “I’m just attracted to t-girls”. IMHO, I feel the first set of answers is a cover or rationalization for the later reply. It also skirts around the issue of being gay, bi or whatever in addition to side stepping the unPC desire of wanting women to be soft, sweet, demure, etc, (i.e., traditional, old-school definition of feminine behavior). Part of the reason I feel this way is there are plenty of GGs who are feminine and take pride in their appearance, and are not drama queens. Another part is the behavior or desires of some when alone with me.

Whether the various types of admirers have issues with relating to GGs or previous bad experiences would be speculation on my part. It is not the nicest thing to say, but true based on my observations and experiences, nearly every admirer hanging out at the bars looking for sexual hook ups, are physically unattractive and have glaring personality deficits. Whether repeated failures or frustrations with GGs is what drives them to go after t-girls would also be speculation.


Do you know of any admirers who've been with a pre-op TS who eventually had SRS, and did the relationship last after the surgery?
I have heard of a few, but do not personally know anyone where this has happened.


And last, how many of these admirers are married to women who do not know what they are up to, and would this explain their inability to have anything other than a sexual relationship with a TG? :p
IMHO, the ones who cannot “host” or need to be very discreet are either married, in a relationship or ashamed if anyone they cared about knew they were hooking up with a t-girl. Unfortunately, parts of society would label these men as creepy or pervs for wanting to be with a transgendered person regardless of how attractive or passable they were. Then there are the ones that are just interested in the sex regardless of their relationship status or social stigma issues.


If the CD/TS/TG specific issues are stripped away, many of the issues are similar to those GGs experience in their dating or relationship lives. I have a few good GG friends, and we complain about many of the same things when it comes to men and dating. Some of the dynamics and details differ, but the core issues are essentially the same with a few unique ones on each side.

I apologize for the long response. I hope it provides some answers to your questions.

[ReineD]

I apologize for the long response. I hope it provides some answers to your questions.

It does, thank you. :) And without quoting your response point by point, I do have some comments.

First, I want to clarify. I do not believe that admirers are necessarily all creepy or pervs. They certainly aren't to the CDs and TSs who go out with them. My point was that their attraction to TGs seems fetish based, if their attraction is fueled by the fact that the TG is a feminine-presenting male who still has a penis, and the goal is to have sex. I do want to differentiate between the men who do fit into this category (my definition of "admirers" for the purpose of this discussion), and anyone else who might be attracted to a person who also happens to be a TG. Also, based on many of the threads I've read in this forum, it is difficult for most members who are out and proud to find long term relationships with gay men and straight GGs, and even more difficult with straight men (by this I mean the men who are normally attracted to GGs), unless a TS happens to be stealth (at which point the question of whether the prospective suitor is an admirer is moot, since he doesn't even know that the TS is a TS). I'm not sure what percentage of men who do not crossdress are bi, who would most likely be attracted to someone based on who they are rather than their anatomy, but if I am to believe the various studies I've read, it is less than 5%. We can start a different thread with links to the various studies.

My other observations:

If you've been asked out by straight males who didn't know you are TG (either from a bar or online) and they are looking for a long-term relationship, I go back to the point I made above that we can't say they are "admirers" since they have no clue about your anatomy (assuming you haven't had SRS). In other words, they aren't attracted to your penis since they don't know you have one. So these men fall outside of our discussion.

You do confirm that the admirers who hang out in tranny bars are after sex. I'm assuming their reason for being in a tranny vs. a mainstream bar is to find partners who have penises. You also confirm that the men who know that CDing is involved, in chat rooms, bring out their worst behaviors. You also confirm that your nicer online contacts outside of chatrooms (who see your profile in which you say you are TG), are also after sex, even if they are willing to take you out on a date first. You also confirm they do not introduce you to their coworkers and their friends, nor is the relationship the same as it would be should they be dating a GG.

You confirm they have reasons for preferring a TG over a GG (GGs are not feminine enough (lol), or they are too high maintenance), which means these men do fit the profile of men who are specifically attracted to a person who presents like a GG but has a penis. BTW, like you, I don't buy the notion that GGs aren't as feminine as TGs. Some GGs place their focus on other life priorities than looks, this is true, but there are still plenty of feminine GGs around, especially if they are in the market for men and they dress up to go to clubs in order to meet them. You should see the local college girls in my town, in the local clubs on a Saturday night. Wow! At any rate, once you cut through your prospects' rationalization, you do confirm they are after TGs specifically and they give you the impression they may have issues with GGs for various reasons.

Honestly, I don't think that you are describing admirers any differently than I did. :)

[Misti]

Good or bad experiences? :)

Marleena, there are far too many "personal variables" for me to make an educated guess here? However, I will say that I have been an admirer of the feminine form factor all my post-pubic life.

An example: I was lambasted by my first wife often, repeatedly and derisively for oogling the opposite sex, and I had to oft times reply, nicely, of course, to her that, "I reserve the right to enjoy beauty in its finest form until the day I die!"

And so it is to this very day, "Ditto!" However, two (2) things are very dfferent now: 1) My SO doesn't object, and 2) I'm doing it as a "new CD." My point is that I just have never known what is beneath the skirt, and don't care, anyway - however, presently it's primarily and simply because of a couple of those aforementioned "personal variables" alluded to above - I couldn't do anything overt about it anyway, Plus or Minus, AC/DC, CD/TG or STRAIGHT - Reasons being: ED plus a large number of the nerves in my vertabrae were severed by RF Nerve Ablation last week. :battingeyelashes:
P.S. I'm doing great, thank you all very much. Now, back to my girl watching... :love:
L&R,

M.

[Acastina]

I put up an online dating profile a while ago exclusively using photos of me dressed up and have chatted with a number of "admirers" at length (admittedly I've never actually met any of them, I think I'm too shy for online dating in general.) I've found basically four categories of men who contact me.

Category one / scary people: The creepiest are the ones I call the fetishists, who seem to be absolutely fixated on the idea of sex with a man dressed up as a woman. They almost always try to pry for inappropriate or immodest pictures and immediately try to turn the conversation lewd. They genuinely scare me. I don't understand what motivates them and kind of hope that I never do.

Category twos are guys who identify themselves as straight, but if you talk to them for a while usually seem to be bi-curious and feel more comfortable approaching someone who they see as "in-between" sexes. I think they want to explore their sexuality but have internalized the social stigma that's been unfairly applied to same-sex relationships and think of it as being attracted to a someone who's "sort-of" a woman. They're usually pretty polite but overly self-conscious.

Category three are guys who are open to their attraction to other men and who genuinely find me attractive. They usually identify as bi. They're almost always very nice in conversation, usually very non-judgemental and understanding. Sometimes they're curious about crossdressing and ask about why I do it, their reasons for thinking about starting or even suggestions on how to start.

Lastly, there are other crossdressers and MTF transsexuals. Usually they're just happy to find someone they can talk to openly and honestly. I love talking to them and have gotten most of my make-up tips that way.

I vote for Category Three; runner-up, Four; honorable mention, Two. One is why we hide behind pseudonyms and firewalls. I think this is a pretty comprehensive, perceptive summary. Thanks.

[Melissa Rose]

Reine,

Getting a firm grip on words and their definitions sometimes can be like trying to hold Jello in your hands by squeezing. Admirers is more like an umbrella term that covers a lot of territory, but is often used with a more negative connotation that conjures up thoughts of pervy and creepy. We are on page 5 of this thread and still trying to achieve clarification or consistency of meaning. While I dislike the term "tranny chaser" (mainly because I really dislike the term tranny and less so for the phrase's negative connotation), IMHO it better fits those individuals who are more fetish based and with desires primarily or exclusively sexually driven. The difference is like saying "big game hunter" versus "animal lover". LOL. Regardless, whatever term is used or created, there will always be various definitions and disagreements. Squeezing Jello. I agree anyone who is attracted to a person and does not know they are transgendered is not an admirer. They are attracted to the person whether it is their appearance or personality. They may change their mind if or when they find out, but it does not change their initial attraction or motive.

My perception and experience is the number of men who are attracted to t-girls and would act on it (i.e., it is more than only a fantasy) is a low percentage of the overall male population. Subtract those who want to keep it completely discreet due to social and personal pressures and the number gets lower.* Those looking for either non-sleath casual dating or a LTR relationship is a small number. There are bisexuals, but that tends to refer more to sexual behavior and appetite and less about a partner preference. Most seem to have a biological sex partner preference, but enjoy sexual relationships with both. There is a subtle, but significant difference from those who are totally about the person and their biological sex does not matter. I suspect that is a rare person.

*Which makes my potential dating pool small. LOL but :-(


If anyone is wondering why I'm sometimes in a t-girl bar where the admirers congregate, it is because some of my t-girl friends are only comfortable in what they perceive to be CD/TG friendly places. It is also amusing to play spot the admirer and guess who they may approach or if they only orbit and watch.

[Acastina]

Melissa (Message # 106), great discussion. A lot to think about in there, a lot of perspective, a lot of good advice. Thanks. See you on the 11th?

[ReineD]

Admirers is more like an umbrella term that covers a lot of territory, but is often used with a more negative connotation that conjures up thoughts of pervy and creepy.
...

*Which makes my potential dating pool small.

I'm once again guilty of skimming through some of the posts here, and I thank Acastina for quoting Judith96's analysis of the various men who are interested in TGs. I also agree these are good descriptions. Paradoxically, I'd like to add that Category Threes and perhaps even Category Twos (but at a less advanced stage) mesh with Alice Novik's theory that in most every man who is interested in TGs, beats the heart of a potential CDer (who also potentially fantasizes about being with a man).

That said, I've spoken to members who have TG profiles on social and dating sites and I've also read posts about this here. These members do confirm that unfortunately there seem to be an inordinate number of Category Ones, which would indeed make your potential dating pool small. I've also seen Category One admirers operate in tranny bars. These are the people I refer to, when I use the term "admirers", even though we know there are other men who do not behave like that but as you say, they are few.

When having general discussions, I tend to refer to majority trends based on personal observation and on accounts from other members, rather than dwell on the exceptions.

No matter how we look at it, the idea that a straight male who is not a potential CD, is attracted to a TG because he sees her as a woman (which brings us back to the OP), seems to be fairly rare.