Soc Security . . . sigh. . . .

[CharleneT]

Well, I finally went down to the SSN office today, to make another attempt at getting my gender marker changed. I have done so before**, and was turned away. They said that the rules required a letter from a surgeon attesting to successful SRS/GRS. So, took my bright and shiny letter from Dr. Chettawut down there and - you guessed it - they turned me down. Why ? They require an amended birth certificate now. I know that is incorrect and told the woman at the counter that. She looked and could not find the policy for gender marker changes. You read that right, she could not find it. IF I had known that, I would have taken a copy with me!! Funny thing is, the last time they turned me down, they gave me a copy of said policy ;)

She said she would do some research and see if I was right. They made copies of the letter and my passport - and will "get back to me".

While I know that when they do that it will be with the change made, my experience did under-score just how variable the SS offices are with respect to this change.


Sigh . . . . :wall:


** last time I had my passport and letter from endo stating that I had transitioned - but not the surgery letter.

[Katesback]

Damm that sucks. I was able to get mine changed when I got my srs letter. Actually its not much fun because you get absolutely nothing to walk away from the office with.

[CharleneT]

....

The letter from your surgeon is all you need to change the gender marker on SSA records.

MLD

Thanks for the info, the funny thing is that they did not know this nor could they find it. Honestly it never occurred to me that that would happen.

[Bree-asaurus]

Yeah, it depends on who you're dealing with... some people are kinda retarded on the subject.

I was able to change my gender marker with the SSA with just my court order stating my name and gender change and two forms of ID.

Would be nice if everyone would know and follow the friggin policies... (except in my case... cuz they didn't ask me about SRS letter :P)

[Traci Elizabeth]

I have to agree with Bree. It boils down to who you get at the window. Myself, I was very lucky and my luck of the draw, I got the regional supervisor when they call my name and to which window I needed to go to. But mine change was very simple and straight forward and I had mo problems.

[Bree-asaurus]

Please remember that gender marker changes are not something service reps in SSA field offices see often. Some may never have to process one in their entire career. Since SSA discontinued sending "no match" letters to employers, changing a gender marker is actually less important than before the policy change. In their defense, service reps must be "fluent" in retirement issues, disability issues, medicare for both title II (benefits based on earnings) and title XVI (need based benefits aka supplemental security income).

MLD

That's totally understandable... but if it's a part of their job, regardless of how rare, they need to know how to find out their policies if they don't already know them.

[donnalee]

I've found that you need to talk to different people; it really depends on who you talk to as to what they can & will do for you. It seems that older and dumber they are, there is an arrogance as they seem to think they can deny you what the law entitles you to,
You will have to study the rules and force them to recognize that this is what the law specifies and/or try to find another of the staff to help you. When I retired, I was sent a letter from my pension insisting my SO get Medicare part 2, which we discontinued once I was able to get her on my medical (better care and much lower cost). When I went to the Social Security office to reinstate your coverage, I was told that she wouldn't qualify as she had been on it 1st and then dropped it. We were between a rock and a hard place as far as medical insurance went. I had to have Her medicare re-instated in order to have her insured. 3 weeks later I had a meeting, with a Medicare "ombudsman" who told me I was correct and that the "gap" in coverage didn't matter, as there had been "credible coverage" for the entire time. The next day I went to social security again and talked to a nice lady; when I explained the situation to her she immediately re-instated my SO's Medicare coverage, starting the beginning of the next month.
It always depends on who you talk to, so it's worthwhile to try several times until you find the right one.

[Nicole Erin]

Dealing with our good ol govt is exhausting. My gyod to do anything at all they want all this paperwork, it is never good enough, etc... One trip to the DMV is proof of this.

When I went to get my SSN card name changed, I had a notorized court document with me that they said to take and at first the lady working at the counter thought it wasn't the right one and had to ask her boss. Here is the sad part - she was TS herself! Gyod she should have known about all this. I knew she was TS cause she told me. Otherwise i would not have known.

[CharleneT]

I've had better luck at other gov offices, for some reason, SSA just is not consistent -- at least on this subject !!

MLD -- indeed it is not a common thing, but they still seem to have a lot of trouble with gender marker changes. It amazes me that the offices vary so much on how they handle this sort of request. Normally gov offices are all about following some guideline or policy.

For the record, the person helping me was young and quite friendly ;)

[Traci Elizabeth]

For the record, the person helping me was young and quite friendly ;)


So are you DATING her now! :heehee:

[Hope]

Charlene!

Your story is absurd! My heart breaks for you having to put up with that garbage!



Yeah, it depends on who you're dealing with... some people are kinda retarded on the subject.

I was able to change my gender marker with the SSA with just my court order stating my name and gender change and two forms of ID.

Would be nice if everyone would know and follow the friggin policies... (except in my case... cuz they didn't ask me about SRS letter :P)

I can second this... Personally I am happy when people don't follow policies, like they did in my case when they changed my gender marker just because I asked when I went in for my name change... I just got LUCKY. But yeah it sucks when don't follow policies the other way and make things MORE restrictive. Blah. It makes me wonder what is wrong with people.

[CharleneT]

UPDATE:

Well. the SSA office called back this afternoon to inform me that my application for a gender marker change has been denied. They believe that my GRS letter is real, but it is not sufficient. I must have an amended birth certificate as well. I was born in Hawaii, and although I have applied for an amendment to my BC, it will take months before that is done (they are incredibly slow).

Hope, I am surprised that they would change your marker without any documentation, you are lucky !

[arbon]

Amended meaning the gender marker has to be changed on it? Or name?

[Danni Bear]

Charlene, here is exactly what ssa says they have to have and the link it came from


Change gender on your Social Security record

Updated 12/19/2011 06:27 PM | ID# 1667
How can I change the gender on my Social Security record?


To change your gender on Social Security's records:
Step 1: Gather documents proving your:

Gender (a letter from your surgeon or attending physician verifying that the sex change surgery was completed. The document must contain enough biographical data, e.g., name, date of birth, to clearly identify you).
Identity (http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/2281/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xMzI4MjQxNTM2L3NpZC9lcTR4c0tQaw%3D% 3D)
U.S. citizenship (http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/2282/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xMzI4MjQxNTM2L3NpZC9lcTR4c0tQaw%3D% 3D) if you have not established your citizenship with us.
Immigration status (http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/2283/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xMzI4MjQxNTM2L3NpZC9lcTR4c0tQaw%3D% 3D) if you are not a U.S. citizen.
Step 2: Complete the Application for a Social Security card (http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/2308/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xMzI4MjQxNTM2L3NpZC9lcTR4c0tQaw%3D% 3D).
Step 3: Take or mail your completed application and documents to your local Social Security office (http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/383/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xMzI4MjQxNTM2L3NpZC9lcTR4c0tQaw%3D% 3D).


http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/rnt/rnw/img/enduser/redstar.gifAll documents must be either originals or certified copies by the issuing agency.
We cannot accept photocopies or notarized copies of documents.
Any documents you mail to us will be returned to you along with a receipt.
Additional information and assistance
Call us at 1-800-772-1213 (TTY 1-800-325-0778) 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m., Monday through Friday.

More Information
http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/rnt/rnw/img/enduser/blueline.gif
Documents You Need for a Social Security Card (http://www.ssa.gov/ss5doc/)
Get or Replace a Social Security Card (http://www.ssa.gov/ssnumber/)
Your Social Security Number and Card (http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10002.html)
If You Change Your Name (http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10127.html#3)

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1667


danni

[Hope]

You know Char... you don't have to go to your local office...

Come see me for an afternoon, We can go to the office I went to, with your surgeon's letter you will get your change done even if they DO ask to see it... the folks here are chill...

AND I got incredibly lucky...

Besides, it has been too long - we need to hang out...

[Starling]

Thanks, Danni Bear, for showing us the actual requirements for gender change. The rules of any agency become increasingly complex as they are amended to cover new situations. Bureaucracies want to spell out explicit policies to prevent the kind of seat-of-the-pants rulings that functionaries deliver so frequently when presented with novelty. This is as true in the NFL as at Social Security or the DMV. Yet it's the very impulse to remove ambiguity or uncertainty that can create additional confusion.

That's why it's so important, once you get the correct answer, to be able to repeat it and repeat it--with substantiation--to every clerk, supervisor or grand vizier you must deal with. I think the person across the counter, or on the other end of the phone, is often so confused that they welcome certainty from you.

The problem will only grow worse as staff cuts go deeper and erase institutional memory, and common sense bred of experience. In the streamlined Ikea model, for example, the customer is the quality control officer.

:) Lallie

[DanaR]

Charlene, my wife and I don't have any experience with what you are going though, but have had other problems with the Social Security Office. We have gone round and round with issues that are clearly covered in their procedures. We think that the issue has been resolved after a trip to their office and then we get a letter saying there is a problem again. Every time we receive a letter from them now, we cringe.

[CharleneT]

Amended meaning the gender marker has to be changed on it? Or name?

Either or both, amended generally means "a change to the original", in the case of birth certs, it also means that the reason for the change is listed on the document. I was born in Hawaii, and they do only amended BC's. So, with a name change or gender marker change, they will list why it was changed at the bottom of the new document. Yup, no stealth with them .... arrrgggg.... As well, it takes around 6 months to get the new cert.


You know Char... you don't have to go to your local office...

Come see me for an afternoon, We can go to the office I went to, with your surgeon's letter you will get your change done even if they DO ask to see it... the folks here are chill...

AND I got incredibly lucky...

Besides, it has been too long - we need to hang out...

Indeed, plan C is to go to another office - gotta have better luck ? !! There is a larger town 30 min north, I assume there is a SSA office there. I'd much rather go up to your place though !! Funny thing is that two of my friends here have had no probs at the same office. I've been very polite etc, so it isn't that.



Thanks, Danni Bear, for showing us the actual requirements for gender change. The rules of any agency become increasingly complex as they are amended to cover new situations. Bureaucracies want to spell out explicit policies to prevent the kind of seat-of-the-pants rulings that functionaries deliver so frequently when presented with novelty. This is as true in the NFL as at Social Security or the DMV. Yet it's the very impulse to remove ambiguity or uncertainty that can create additional confusion.

That's why it's so important, once you get the correct answer, to be able to repeat it and repeat it--with substantiation--to every clerk, supervisor or grand vizier you must deal with. I think the person across the counter, or on the other end of the phone, is often so confused that they welcome certainty from you.

...
:) Lallie

I would like to thank all those who've given me the links to the rules here and in PM's. Problem seems to be my local office is interpreting it differently. That is baffling because it is actually a clearly written policy !!!


Charlene, my wife and I don't have any experience with what you are going though, but have had other problems with the Social Security Office. We have gone round and round with issues that are clearly covered in their procedures. We think that the issue has been resolved after a trip to their office and then we get a letter saying there is a problem again. Every time we receive a letter from them now, we cringe.

I'm getting to cringe stage myself. I did find out last night that it is actually against their policies to inform me of the denial via phone call ( supposed to be a letter ). I'm thinking of going in for one more try - policy printed and in hand - and see if a supervisor wants to stand by going the wrong way.


For clarity and to avoid dissing the Hawaii office of records too much, I should point out that they are waaaaay over worked due to the constant requests for Pres. Obama's BC. I'm not sure about right now, but last year I know they were receiving several hundred requests a day. By law, they must reply to every one... SO, I know I'll have to wait a long time for my BC, I know why.

[Stephenie S]

Often, "amended" means crossing out your old name and writing in the new name. No subtly here. What you need, I think is an entirely new document.

S

[CharleneT]

Often, "amended" means crossing out your old name and writing in the new name. No subtly here. What you need, I think is an entirely new document.

S

Not sure about other states, but Hawaii always creates a new document - no cross outs ;) The annotations are typed in near the bottom edge ( I have already done the name change, so I've seen how it looks). I still have a copy of my original long form, which now has extra special meaning. I was born in the same hospital as Pres. Obama, the same registrar who signed mine, signed his :D I'm older though LOL !!

[pamela_a]

Often, "amended" means crossing out your old name and writing in the new name. No subtly here. What you need, I think is an entirely new document.

S

In Minnesota a new document is created with a note (in small type) near the bottom of the document stating, in my case, "CHILD'S FIRST NAME modified on 04/24/2010 per COURT ORDER DIRECTED CHANGE; CHILD'S MIDDLE NAME modified on 04/24/2010 per COURT ORDER DIRECTED CHANGE; Data item(s) other than the registrant's name or date of birth was amended on this birth record on 04/24/2010"

[CharleneT]

Well, my next visit went a bit better. I was armed with a printout of the policy from the web and the original documents (SRS letter, Drvs lic and Passport). Ended up with the same woman helping me. She started to explain what I would need (again) as I got out the documents. I gave her those and the printout and said "please read this". When she was done, she smiled, said that when she had never seen this before. When she talked to her supervisor he told her what she believed was the policy (need a BD amended). They never checked, even when I asked them to do so and told them what the policy read. Geeeeeshhhh..... BUT to their credit, they finally did what they are supposed to do. 3 trips...

Kate: indeed, I walked out with nothing but the knowledge that a new card will show up inside two weeks....

[Hope]

Kate: indeed, I walked out with nothing but the knowledge that a new card will show up inside two weeks....

I bit my nails for every day of those 2 weeks... I was Sooo worried that I was going to get a letter saying "Upon review..... denied!" 10 days my new card came with a cover letter explaining that Mrs. Hope could only replace her card 10 times in her life. I'm still not sure why I continued to bite my nails for another 4 days...

Congratulations Char! I'm glad you persevered... and I am sure you did it in a firm and lady-like manner.

Now when you come up here we can spend our time hanging out instead of in the SSA office... O_o....

[CharleneT]

. . .
Now when you come up here we can spend our time hanging out instead of in the SSA office... O_o....

OH now come on, the SSA office is like one of the hottest places to hang !! I am soooo disappointed you don't want to go there ....

:lol2: