Unsure of where to go now....

[JessicaM1985]

So after talking with a friend on here, I have come to the realization that I'm transsexual and not bigendered. This came to me because I have been wanting to live as a woman for a very long time now and have been suppressing it. I have come out to people I know, including my S.O. and immediate circle of family of family and friends. They know I'm dead set on this and that I need it to be happy. Some are less supportive than others, (ie still calling me by my birth name and using only masculine pronouns and have openly stated a refusal to stop doing so) but all of them want me to be happy. I've also changed both the name and gender on my facebook account, so I've technically gone public with it as well, though people may or may not notice). Acceptance isn't much of an issue right now, although not many people have seen me enfemme yet, so I expect that to change and can deal with that as it comes.

The problem I face is how far I want to go with this, as well as having a limited income with which to figure this all out.
I know that I would prefer to have as few surgeries as possible, and would rather keep my penis. Does this mean I'm not transsexual? I do want to live as the woman that I know I am, and want to legally change my name and all of that and an prepared to accept the hate and transphobia that comes with it, but I'm unsure of taking hrt and getting ffs done.
Then comes the fact that I'm a full time college student that lives at home, and only makes what the government pays me to go to school. I don't feel entirely honest about taking taxpayer money for a sex change, but then again, I'm getting desperate.

I know that when I look in the mirror and see that masculine face and build, a little part of me dies inside each day. When I shave and put makeup and a wig on, I feel a bit better but it still feels like a cheap farce and hollow. Mainly because I know that I still look like a dude in makeup. Knowing that makes me die inside a little as well. When that realization hits, I get majorly depressed, refuse to do any kind of care or grooming to my body and just hide in my room for days. (school doesn't start again until next monday and my band rarely meets for rehearsal sadly, so my obligations are limited)
Most of the gg friends, gm friends, and family I have are too busy to spend time with me on the whole so I have nobody to talk to about this and for some the topic makes them uncomfortable anyways. I feel alone, trapped, and abandoned.

I would LOVE to be able to talk about all of these things with a gender therapist, but I have no money or insurance to see one and am afraid that they'd kick me to the curb even if I did. That and I don't even know where to find one within 15 miles of where I live (bad tags on my car forces me to make short driving trips, lest I get it impounded)

Sorry for the rambling that only insomnia can bring, but I don't know where else to turn for help. I'm scared that if I don't deal with this soon, I may lose what little sanity I have left.

[kimdl93]

So after talking with a friend on here, I have come to the realization that I'm transsexual and not bigendered..

Jessica, with all due respect to your friend, I think its a premature to classify yourself in one group or another. My very strong advice is to seek out counseling. If you cannot afford a gender therapist, I'd suggest going to a therapist at a federally qualified health center. they offer behavioral health services on a sliding fee scale, based on ability to pay. It may not be the ideal, but at this point you would benefit from professional services.

[Katesback]

You said you want to keep your penis. LOL I dont think I ever met a woman with a penis. I suppose you could make a lot of money as a *******. By the way your NOT TS. You can call yourself anything but TS.

[Kristy_K]

You said you want to keep your penis. LOL I dont think I ever met a woman with a penis. I suppose you could make a lot of money as a *******. By the way your NOT TS. You can call yourself anything but TS.

I would have to agree with you Kate.

[Marleena]

I have a bad feeling about this, just confirmed. Good luck Jessica!

[Nicole Erin]

You said you want to keep your penis. LOL I dont think I ever met a woman with a penis.
Now it has nothing to do with gender labels per se but I believe a lot of female school gym teachers have penises. I mean damn girl you gotta admit, some of those female gym teachers we had back in school were scary! Kinda of like "Miss Mann" off "Scary movie"


But now as far as a label, miss Jessica, why not try this - live as you want? There is no right or wrong way of doing things. No one but lovers or maybe doctors see what is in your pants anyways. You don't have to have a vagina to live as a woman or present as such.
Get this - I know one so-called TS who has had SRS and still lives as a guy except when going to some support group. Not sure WHY one would do that but anyways how you live is up to you.

[Melody Moore]

I have to disagree with some of the people here. I think there are 3 types of transsexuals
Pre-op, Post-op & Non-op. Now I know a number of non-op transsexual women who can't
have surgery due to age, health and financial issues, but I still don't think that makes them
any 'less transsexual', than Kate is. Noone here fits neatly into a little box like some imagine
we should. The fact is the gender spectrum is spread across a continuum of differing identities
and some people don't fit into one or the other. Myself personally, I am a binary transsexual
woman so having a penis doesn't sit right with me and I desperately want my surgery as well,
however because I am still pre-op that doesn't make me less transsexual than Kate is for example
and in fact if I want to play my intersex card then I am more biologically female than she will ever be. ;)

The best advice given to you here so far is to see a gender therapist and work out who you
really are and how best to proceed. Take no notice of anything else right now, its useless noise.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Jessica,

You asked if you would still be transsexual if you kept your penis.

I'll answer your question with a question.

Would me keeping my penis make me not intersexed??

If your transsexual your transsexual despite the degree of physical changes you decide on and can afford.
HRT will change your appearance over the course of time and with you being young it will be notably dramatic in what it will do for you.
Take this one small step at a time.
There are many resources available to you at GLBT centers that will give you leads on a little or no cost therapist.
Above all Jessica dont deny yourself the truth whatever that may be.


Julia

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Lots of advice and all different..as you can see you really are not alone in this..there are lots of us

YOUR job Jessica is to sort through all of it...

labels will not help you..am i or aren't i? is a great question..the answer is yours alone... and the answer gets you nothing, its what you do about it that will matter...

Right now you are describing your life on the Island of Misfit toys...you are searching where you fit..who wants you? who do aspire to be ??

but based only on your OP you have WAY TO MUCH THINKING going on way too far ahead of your ability to do anything about it..

what steps can you take right now? my guess is to find some support, either professionally or locally in some kind of support group or area event...you need to find out more FACTS about transsexuality and what it means to you, and more FACTS about what your REALISTIC options are..(ffs??? it's $40-$50k...is that still realistic for you?..300 hrs of painful electrolysis at $60-$80/hr!! still interested??)...see what i'm saying?...get the facts...

you still may be like me...ruminating all night about options and coulda shoulda woulda...but at least if you get more details you can use that info to make progress on the most important thing in your life...YOU!

[JessicaM1985]

You said you want to keep your penis. LOL I dont think I ever met a woman with a penis. I suppose you could make a lot of money as a *******. By the way your NOT TS. You can call yourself anything but TS.

Ouch. Way to stick up for fellow transgenders by calling them ******** and way to run me down even more by implying that I'm a ***** and want sex for money. I come asking for help and get put down. Thanks. :/

I want to keep it because I'm broke, and I don't like surgery. I have a fear of sharp objects and don't want to run the risk of something going wrong. Maybe my fears will be eased as I learn more and maybe you're right in saying I'm not TS. It's still not going to affect my decision either way as I've already crossed the point of no return and am moving forward, but doing so with extreme caution from this point on. Hence why instead of just dialing up the nearest quack to sign me off, I posted here first looking for some resources in hopes you girls had some that I couldn't find.

I agree Julia, I will never understand the whole 'Im more woman/transsexual than you' mebtality. I was under the impression that this community was here to build each other upand give solid advice. If you don't think I'm TS fine, but no need to run me down when I was trying to be completely honest and wrote straight from my heart.

If you want a more detailed story of how I came to this conclusion, by all means p.m. me. But I think I have the right to request courtesy since I give it. :'(

[kimdl93]

Isn't it funny how people will say they abhor labels, but so willingly apply one to themselves. Jessica's post is a case in point.

Jessica suggests that she's decided that she s transsexual, but not transgendered. To me that that's a bit like saying one is a robin, but not a bird. How one choses to label herself may reveal a lot about what's going on inside her head. But this is obviously a perspective at the beginning of the process of self discovery.

Obviously, its complicated, which is why I think Jessica needs to seek the guidance of a disinterested professional. I look at myself as an illustration. Certainly, I cross dress. And from my earliest, most vivid memories, I've been attracted to all things feminine...and teased for behaviors that my siblings felt were...well feminine. I love wearing womens things and presenting publically as female because I feel that my outward presentation matches who I am inside. I have no doubt that I'm transgendered - something in my brain is at least. But, I don't foresee making any more dramatic changes to my life. I love my wife, I grudgingly play a male role in some other personal and professional relationships, and I'm not prepared at this moment to make any major changes. So, I am reluctant to pronounce that I'm a transsexual. The labels - cross dresser, transgender and transsexual are models or abstractions that help me understand myself a bit better, not standards that I measure myself against.

Does that make any sense to you? Or am I entirely full of hot air?

[Inna]

Hi Jessica, I am sorry for some responses you have received, however, even though we are a community of like minded, not always are we all pedagogically inclined and so from time to time you will hear an angry response to an innocent and honest question. Said that, having penis or not, wanting it gone or not is entirely your choice, you are you, the way your feelings tell you you are. Labels help medical professionals do their jobs, prescribe hormones and suggest the road ahead for healthy outcome. But labels are fictitious they do not provide description of self, so don't dwell too much on being labeled this or that.
Your feelings describe however, Gender Dysphoria, the state of disconnect between body and mind, internal feeling of gender differing from that of your body secondary sexual characteristics.

As some have suggested above, therapy is the first step, if you contemplate spending money you get for some surgeries then you should have plenty for therapy. Gender specific therapist and preferably someone with a vast experience, and if you talk to them openly and tell that you are in financial trouble, then I am sure they will work things out so that it really doesn't cost you that much! I have paid $45 per session but the going rate was $75, they are good people and are there to help.

I have also been pronounced a transsexual, the term I was so afraid of and dreaded its sound, but despite having all the former sex attachments my therapist had put the label of transsexual woman on me after second month of therapy. Transsexual is the individual who desires to change their body sexual characteristics to that of their perceived brain sex. But that is an old label and therapists are going loosely on an absolutes.

We are here to help, and everyone really means well, just not everyone will convey the message in the soft and humane manner, that's all.

Get help, get going, get better, love, Inna

[JessicaM1985]

I don't think you're full of hot air Kim and respect what you're saying. Perhaps I'm ignorant in the use of my terms and transgendered is the "correct" term to use. I know very well that this isn't just some fanciful dream that I cooked up in a month's time but a genuine issue that I have been struggling with even before puberty. (So about 14 or so years)

I tried my whole life to pretend I was fine and that I was your "average joe" even though I knew better. I compensated for it by doing "macho" stuff like playing football even though I had no interest in it. I figured that if I kept fighting it, it would go away. Yet at the same time, I'd look at women and be sad and jealous. I was about as much a guy as they were, yet I'm stuck in this hideous shell. I still look at myself in the mirror, see all the hair and rough manly features and want to run my fist right through it. I spent years making plea deals to with God to either turn me into a woman, always followed by instant guilt and internal humiliation beczuse I had no idea why I couldn't just be happy with my birth gender. I get that some of you girls think I'm just some dude who discovered a panty drawer and that I'm not 'one of you' but you haven't walked in my shoes to make that judgment. You don't know the number of hours I've lost sleep over it, the tears I've shed, the fear I've felt, the beatings I've taken to 'stop being such a fag' (as my dad's ex wife would say as they were doled out because I had mascara on), or the number of prayers to fix this I've prayed.

[kimdl93]

I don't think you're full of hot air Kim and respect what you're saying. Perhaps I'm ignorant in the use of my terms and transgendered is the "correct" term to use. I know very well that this isn't just some fanciful dream that I cooked up in a month's time but a genuine issue that I have been struggling with even before puberty. (So about 14 or so years).

Jessica, I am afraid my comments seemed to belittle your genuine feelings. and for that I apologize. You describe youself in much the way I would have felt throughout my life. So, I know the internal struggles and conflicts very well. What I'd like you to consider is what I suggested initially - get into a federally qualified health center and talk to a professional. They likely won't be specialists in gender issues, but they are professionals at listening, and based on what youv'e said about your finances, they are likely to be affordable. So, you could get some unbiased help, perhaps even a referral to a specialist willing to work on a sliding fee basis.

[AudreyTN]

Jessica, with all due respect to your friend, I think its a premature to classify yourself in one group or another. My very strong advice is to seek out counseling. If you cannot afford a gender therapist, I'd suggest going to a therapist at a federally qualified health center. they offer behavioral health services on a sliding fee scale, based on ability to pay. It may not be the ideal, but at this point you would benefit from professional services.

I agree with Kim. I am pretty sure I am transgendered, but since I am not a psychologist or psychiatrist, it's been advised I wait a year and go through therapy to get the accurate diagnosis. Some have told me only I know, and some said only a license doctor in this field know, and some same it's necessary to go through therapy and talk it out before reaching any conclusions.

Reason: If you get on hormones, do all this FFS surgeries, and look as a woman, and you get halfway through it, and then you realize, this isn't for me, you've just wasted a bunch of time and money for nothing, set yourself back emotionally for many many years, and you will have ruined many friendships and relationships, and for what?

Sometimes our emotions and our feelings and frustrations can get in the way of our judgement, and we as humans might believe we know what we are, when in fact, it could be an entirely different set of circumstances at play and could be misconstrued as gender identity disorder. It's easy to confuse one thing for another, especially when things aren't going well, and those things justify in your mind as to who and what you are, because a person may be unconsciously, subconsciously or even consciously using that as an excuse to change themselves chemically and physically, which in turn affects changes their emotional and mental state of being for the worse.

Jessica, for your personal sake, get in, see a gender identity therapist, talk to them, be open, be honest, tell them how you feel, your thoughts, desires, past relationships (ended good? ended bad?), your dressing habits, and so on, get to the root of your issues, and once you have the advice, opinion and diagnosis from a medical expert, then you can figure out how you want to proceed.

I've started my therapy, but I am not taking hormones (even though many have suggested) until after 1 year at the earliest, because I don't want to make a mistake. I need to do what's right for me. Thinking about changing your sex is one thing, doing it is an entirely new and different ball game, and it may open you up to things you are not prepared to deal with. Patience is the key to your success, and I'm not trying to tell you not to do anything, but therapy is the 2nd step. The first step is realizing you need to talk to someone, and that as much as friends care, they are no more qualified than you or I to give out diagnosis' as to your sexuality or gender identity issues. That's why these doctors spend 8-16 years in college ON TOP OF the 13 they've already spent in primary education. They're professionals for a reason.

Am I sure I am transgendered? yes. Do I despise my masculine attributes? yes. Do i feel conflicted between mind/soul/heart and body? yes. Does that make me transgendered and in need of a sex change operation, hormones, and FFS, and hair removal? not quite. That needs to be further studied, examined and observed, because my past has many horrible events on a continual basis, from molestation, to being picked on, teased, beaten, to continually failed relationships, and so on, that could be affecting my attitude and judgement towards the way I am right now physically, and I may have on some sort of level I don't realize or acknowledge, be telling myself, events x, y, z, and a, b, d happened, so I'll just become a woman and go through all this and that will solve all my problems. Truth be told it won't. That's where therapy comes in. You have to resolve your issues, make peace with the things and people from your past, put yourself in a good emotional state of mind, and only when your mind is completely clear and removed of doubt, can you make an informed, unbiased, unweighted, and logical and rational decision for your best interests at hand.

Don't rush it. I'm 31, my time is running out, but I'll not be rushing it. I'm doing it the right way, therapy for 1 year and since I despise body hair, I'm going to start hair removal on my face and chest (because even if i don't go through it all, that's just less hair for me to have to worry about) , then if the counselor agrees, I start HRT and transition.

All things happen when they are supposed to. A wise friend once told me, everything may not happen on our time, but everything happens in time and on time. Keep your chin up, one step at a time. ;)

[AudreyTN]

You said you want to keep your penis. LOL I dont think I ever met a woman with a penis. I suppose you could make a lot of money as a *******. By the way your NOT TS. You can call yourself anything but TS.

there are plenty of men who have transformed themselves into very feminine women with the exception of their male gender parts. Society dictates that we are distinguished by our physical looks as either man or woman, and by our genitals as either man or woman, but I think we all know that is not true of who we are on the inside.

I don't see how you are any more qualified that Jessica, or her friend, to make an ascertainment as to what Jessica is or isn't, unless you have some intimate knowledge of your secondary level of education that you'd like to share with us that proclaims you to have received a Bachelor's in Psychology, a Master's Degree, and a PhD in the appropriate fields of study in which qualifies you to make such statements?

Many transgendered females and males, keep their original sex organs, wishing only to appear physically to society as who they feel and know themselves to be internally, and many are content with that. everyone is different in what they want and choose, and what opportunities are available to them.

[Nicole Erin]

Jessica, I saw in your title you call yourself a metal head.

let me assure you that you are NOT a metal head unless you have a mullet and drive a Z28. You also have to wear spandex and a motley crue tee shirt.

[Kelsy]

Jessica

Lack of money doesn't make you any less transsexual if that is what you think you are but It will just make doing anything about it a complete misery. A life threatening one possibly!
Can you speak about any dysphoria you might have concerning your body??
I see you have met Katie! >>smile<<

Kelsy

[Traci Elizabeth]

I am getting in here late on this thread but I would like to echo some of the responses that the #1 priority should be must be to talk to a professional. First option would be one with experience with LGBT individuals. If you cant find one of those, then find one without that experience. The key is to start getting professional help to help you to sort through all your feelings, emotions, desires, and history. If money is an issue be up front tell them that.

I offer you a word of caution that I think i very important in your case. I would not recommend you to be as open able telling friends and family as you apparently have been. You are putting the cart before the horse. There will always be plenty of time to tell as many people down the road as you want. Remember the old standard parable "Words spoken can never be unsaid." Telling all these folks this early in your journey only complicates your situation and puts more stress on you than you need right now. For those you have already told, I would not mention it again or if you feel you have a need too, then just downplay your situation.

Imagine for a moment you tell everyone and their brother that you are transsexual - a woman! Then down the road, you make the decision you are not and that was just a way to hide from or ignore more deeper issues that you may or may now yet realize. That is a good reason to make finding a professional your #1 priority. How do you then after telling every one and taking steps on your own to transition, that you are not a woman but a man? (I am not saying you are either. I don't know what you are and neither does anyone here. Only you and your professional will know that.) I would think that contradiction or flip-flopping would cause you more heartache that you realize.

With each and every person you tell, your life as you knew it changes and maybe never to return.

So my way of helping you is to tell you to get the help you really need one way or the other, and slow way down or stop telling everyone you are transgendered. Even if you are, all you are doing is creating more conflict in your early transition period that you don't need. When you get focused, enlightened, strong, and self-assured as to who you really are, then you can shout it out to the world.

Best wishes for you!

[moondog]

Jessica,

Check out the counseling resources at your college. It's confidential and free for you as a student. If they do not have a counseler who specialize in or has experience with gender identification they should be able to give you some information where you can go at a price you can afford or even for free. The college might even pick up part of the tab considering they were unable to provide you with the services you require. It's something to look into for starters and it costs nothing to ask.

Talking to a friend is good, but remember friends will generally tell you what they think you want to hear, and right now it seems like you want to hear "Yup, you're a girl so get going with that."

A therepist will spend many hours over the course of a year or more delving into what makes you tick before he or she gives a dignosis. Tell the truth and hold nothing back. You're talking about a total life change and after surgery it's difficult, if not impossible, to go back. This is not something to rush into, which is why you need to live as a woman for a year and have multiple letters from therpists and psychologists stating that you are, in fact, pychologically a woman before you can get the surgery.

I doubt you can get taxpayer money to pay for FFS or SRS. If it were possible there wouldn't be so many TGs and TSs lamenting how expensive it is and how difficult it is to come up with the money. If you CAN get taxpayer money please PM me with how to go about that, ok?

It's your right to ignore anything anybody posts here, including my post. Only you know who you are and who you want to become. The trick is knowing if you want it because it IS who you are inside, or because you THINK it's who you are inside.

Good luck and stay strong, PM me if you want. Also I'm not kidding about the taxpayer funding, I really would like to know if it's possible.
And this brings me to the final word of my post.

The final word is....therepy.

[Katesback]

But dear I am helping and supporting you. I am helping to clarify to you that you are not TS. When someone tells me they want to keep thier penis then that immediately lets me know they are NOT TS. Anything else you can call yourself I really dont care but your not TS.






Ouch. Way to stick up for fellow transgenders by calling them ******** and way to run me down even more by implying that I'm a ***** and want sex for money. I come asking for help and get put down. Thanks. :/

I want to keep it because I'm broke, and I don't like surgery. I have a fear of sharp objects and don't want to run the risk of something going wrong. Maybe my fears will be eased as I learn more and maybe you're right in saying I'm not TS. It's still not going to affect my decision either way as I've already crossed the point of no return and am moving forward, but doing so with extreme caution from this point on. Hence why instead of just dialing up the nearest quack to sign me off, I posted here first looking for some resources in hopes you girls had some that I couldn't find.

I agree Julia, I will never understand the whole 'Im more woman/transsexual than you' mebtality. I was under the impression that this community was here to build each other upand give solid advice. If you don't think I'm TS fine, but no need to run me down when I was trying to be completely honest and wrote straight from my heart.

If you want a more detailed story of how I came to this conclusion, by all means p.m. me. But I think I have the right to request courtesy since I give it. :'(

[Kelsy]

Jessica,
I doubt you can get taxpayer money to pay for FFS or SRS. If it were possible there wouldn't be so many TGs and TSs lamenting how expensive it is and how difficult it is to come up with the money. If you CAN get taxpayer money please PM me with how to go about that, ok?


Please add me to the free taxpayer money list!!

[natalie james]

But dear I am helping and supporting you. I am helping to clarify to you that you are not TS. When someone tells me they want to keep thier penis then that immediately lets me know they are NOT TS. Anything else you can call yourself I really dont care but your not TS.
who cares if jessica is TS or not? none of us know her. only she can know if she is really TS. her, and her therapist. i do support that she see somebody, in the case of my college, i see a top tier shrink for free.( the school pays) she isnt a gender therapist, but she has got the job done for the past two terms, and is now helping me with gender as much as she can. we all know you can't do things Like HRT without a letter anyway, so if she isn't TS , she won't get to transition. she will be weeded out. it's a waste of time to get worked up and make any kind of assessment on jessica period, and dumb to do so, because we are not qualified and don't know her. in the long run she won't affect our lives, so why even bother wasting our time telling her shes not?

[JessicaM1985]

Kate, I will take the advice of a trained therapist before I say yes or no. I agree with the others here on that and perhaps I misused the word transsexual. Transgendered would probably be better suited, but I still don't believe it's anyone's place except a licensed therapist to tell me I'm not.

The interesting thing here is that the point of this thread was not the 'am I or not?', but for additional resources that a regular search on google could not yield. The best recommendation here is to get a therapist and I agree. I will begin looking for one ASAP.

I'll save everyone the trouble and label myself as late for dinner since fewer people will get upset with me using that. Lol

[natalie james]

you see.... jessica now states that she agrees that therapy is a good idea, and will seek counseling. let's consider the matter closed and not argue like five year olds. " no, your not" "yeah, i am..." i assume were all grown here. it's totally dumb.

[Bree-asaurus]

Ouch. Way to stick up for fellow transgenders by calling them ******** and way to run me down even more by implying that I'm a ***** and want sex for money. I come asking for help and get put down. Thanks. :/

I want to keep it because I'm broke, and I don't like surgery. I have a fear of sharp objects and don't want to run the risk of something going wrong. Maybe my fears will be eased as I learn more and maybe you're right in saying I'm not TS. It's still not going to affect my decision either way as I've already crossed the point of no return and am moving forward, but doing so with extreme caution from this point on. Hence why instead of just dialing up the nearest quack to sign me off, I posted here first looking for some resources in hopes you girls had some that I couldn't find.

I agree Julia, I will never understand the whole 'Im more woman/transsexual than you' mebtality. I was under the impression that this community was here to build each other upand give solid advice. If you don't think I'm TS fine, but no need to run me down when I was trying to be completely honest and wrote straight from my heart.

If you want a more detailed story of how I came to this conclusion, by all means p.m. me. But I think I have the right to request courtesy since I give it. :'(

Well, isn't it kind of the definition of being transexual that your gender does not match your sex? Your penis is a HUGE part of your sex. Do you wish you were born with a vagina? Or do you actually like your penis? That's the important part. I didn't even touch mine until I was 21 because I got a girlfriend who was gonna want to use it... I thought it was gross ever since I was a little kid.

If you actually get SRS does not mean anything, but the desire to have the proper parts means a lot.

It's understandable that you may not have the money right now, or you may be afraid of surgeries... but these are things that can change. I'm horribly afraid of surgery. I even get panic attacks on occasion when injecting my hormones. But that hasn't stopped me yet and it's not going to stop me from getting surgery when I can afford it.

Live your life as who you are. No one is telling you not to. But it sounds like you're still working out who you really are. There's no need to label yourself yet. Just find out what you have to do to live your life and the labels will fall into place.

And there isn't a "I'm more transexual than you are" mentality... because you're either transexual or you're not. There's no in-between. If you don't totally identify with the sex opposite of yours, than you're not transexual. You could be transgendered, and there is a very wide spectrum of transgendered people. Being entirely cis-gendered is on one end and being transexual is on the other. You could be 90% female and 10% male or whatever (not like we could actually figure out those numbers), but that makes you transgender, not transexual.

Anyway, as I said, it doesn't matter what you are. What matters is that you find out who you are and can be that person comfortably. And your feelings change as you grow and learn who you are. What you thought you felt one day could have been a product of your past repression or ignorance and you can feel different about who you are the next. A small example: as I said I was disgusted by my penis for a looong time and I just assumed that was normal. Then as I grew up I learned things and became more honest with myself and realized that... wait, it's not normal for a guy to hate his penis... something else is going on here!


who cares if jessica is TS or not? none of us know her. only she can know if she is really TS. her, and her therapist. i do support that she see somebody, in the case of my college, i see a top tier shrink for free.( the school pays) she isnt a gender therapist, but she has got the job done for the past two terms, and is now helping me with gender as much as she can. we all know you can't do things Like HRT without a letter anyway, so if she isn't TS , she won't get to transition. she will be weeded out. it's a waste of time to get worked up and make any kind of assessment on jessica period, and dumb to do so, because we are not qualified and don't know her. in the long run she won't affect our lives, so why even bother wasting our time telling her shes not?

Kate is merely helping educate her on what a transexual is...


Kate, I will take the advice of a trained therapist before I say yes or no. I agree with the others here on that and perhaps I misused the word transsexual. Transgendered would probably be better suited, but I still don't believe it's anyone's place except a licensed therapist to tell me I'm not.

The interesting thing here is that the point of this thread was not the 'am I or not?', but for additional resources that a regular search on google could not yield. The best recommendation here is to get a therapist and I agree. I will begin looking for one ASAP.

I'll save everyone the trouble and label myself as late for dinner since fewer people will get upset with me using that. Lol

I take offense to that label!!! :P

Oh and therapy++ :D

[AudreyTN]

there are some resources available, and i will stress, if you are able to get Scholarships and Grants and Student Loans, any money you have left over after tuition, books, supplies and equipment, is yours to spend the way you choose. No one can tell you it is right or wrong how you spend the remaining funds. That is your choice, and for you and only you to decide. If you wish to use some of that money for counseling, that's your prerogative. All of the money is free with no expected repayment, with the exception being the Student Loans, you MUST pay that back. I have used my student loans to live on, pay rent, utilities, car insurance and cell phone, and gas and food. I know I must pay it back, but I can't just not eat or have a place to live, but that is acceptable to me and no one else is responsible for paying that money back, only I am, so in my opinion no has a right to tell me what I am doing is wrong or right, if they want to pay my expenses, I'll gladly stop taking student loans, otherwise they should reserve their judgement and mind their own business because it is no concern of theirs.

but here is a big list of resources that you can use that can potentially add money on to your financial aid packages. Typically scholarships and grant money are applied to tuition and books first, anything left over is student loans (if you applied for them) and the extra amounts that exceed the student loan money is yours to do with as you wish with no expectation of repayment.

http://www.finaid.org/otheraid/gay.phtml (ugh, i really think they could have labeled that page something else rather than gay.html.....*******s).

But remember, college is a time to not only learn a set of skills to utilize in the work force, it's a time to make mistakes, it's a time to learn from them, it's a time to learn new and exciting things, it's a time to rehash and demonstrate things you already know that may be boring, it's a time to learn new things that may not be interesting or exciting but may prove valuable down the road, and most importantly of all it's a time and place to find yourself, to find out who you are, what it is you seek and desire out of life, to discover your ambitions, your passions and what drives you, and to learn how to go forth and find that for yourself and in all that you do.

If you feel it's not right to use that money towards getting help in counseling, or other procedures, then that's your right, and you're not obligated. If you wish to use whatever's left over after school expenses are paid, that's your right too, and no one has the right to criticize you for how you choose to spend it, because at the end of the day, you and you alone are responsible for what you do, and your obligations. The choice is yours and its no one else's place to tell you otherwise. You're trying to better yourself, you're not some bum on meth or crack standing in a welfare line looking for a handout. You're looking for resources that will help you on you way, and get you where you want to go in life, there is nothing dishonest or prude about that.

I'm simply saying this. Any person who wishes to better themselves will always use whatever resources are available to them to seek the answers to the questions they have and to pursue what they want in life, and if you want something bad enough, you'll find a way to achieve it. If you don't, then you won't.

Best of luck girl!

[AudreyTN]

Kate, I will take the advice of a trained therapist before I say yes or no. I agree with the others here on that and perhaps I misused the word transsexual. Transgendered would probably be better suited, but I still don't believe it's anyone's place except a licensed therapist to tell me I'm not.

The interesting thing here is that the point of this thread was not the 'am I or not?', but for additional resources that a regular search on google could not yield. The best recommendation here is to get a therapist and I agree. I will begin looking for one ASAP.

I'll save everyone the trouble and label myself as late for dinner since fewer people will get upset with me using that. Lol

I say some people just don't know what they are talking about, because I believe they might be misinformed themselves (not saying you darling) ;) The links below get more in depth with what each one is and how it pertains to each individual. Not meant to be a diagnosis, but you can certainly print these off and take them to your therapists and discuss them with him/her and how it affects and impacts your life and how you feel and who you feel you are, and your therapist will have a base foundation in which to build upon to help you best figure that out.

http://web4health.info/en/answers/sex-gender-what

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TS.html

and no one here is upset with you, at least I know I'm not! :) chin up, and be proud of yourself, you're brave and courageous! Just be true to yourself, you owe no one on here anything at all.

[JessicaM1985]

Yes, I get pell grant and stafford loan money and yes that is what I was referring to by taxpayer money since it comes from the government.

I have a sizable amount left over every semester, but I want to make sure I don't spend it in a way that is unethical. But I feel that one's good health is important to attend class, so maybe I won't feel so bad spending it on therapy. :)

[Hope]

Despite Kate telling you that a woman is nothing more than a life-support system for a vagina, and her cicsexest bull$hit where she proclaims that the significant numbers of trans women who can't have GRS for one reason or another are't really women, you CAN indeed call yourself transexual. Chances are 100% that you know yourself better than anyone else here knows you.

On a more positive note, allow me to add this:

Don't stress about this stuff. You will figure it out as you move through the process. You don't have to make big scary surgery related decisions today, or ever. A LOT of us started out thinking that maybe we didn't' need GRS, and changed our minds later. A lot of us didn't change our minds. Take this as it comes. Try some stuff out. Find out what is right for you. You really can't know what is right for you until you experiment and learn what it is that you want and you need.

YES, lots of this stuff is expensive. Surgery is god-awfully expensive. You can drop $1000 on a purse and matching pumps without exerting any effort. But you don't' have to. There is LOTS of stuff you can do for CHEEP or free. You are a student. Go take advantage of your university health center - where both counseling and HRT is available to you for next to nothing. Buy clothes at goodwill... about 99% of my wardrobe comes from goodwill... and I get compliments on my outfits all the time - sure, there is a lot of crap at goodwill, but there are lots of wonderful finds there too... lots of stuff still with store tags on it... just don't buy the crap. Another wonderful thing about goodwill is that at $4.00 for a piece, you can afford to experiment with looks and fit.

Paint your nails.

Carry a purse.

Learn to walk.

Work on purging your boy mannerisms.

Work on your voice.

Get your ears pierced.

Get a femme hair

There is SOOOOooooo much work to be done, and so much of it is able to be done cheep or free, that being poor (to the extent that you have a place to live et.al.) is not a very good excuse for not getting started until you get further along and the only things left for you to do are surgery related... but by that point... you will be much less ambivalent about it... and the bigots like Kate will bug you less... except when they attack other sisters...

[natalie james]

Despite Kate telling you that a woman is nothing more than a life-support system for a vagina, and her cicsexest bull$hit where she proclaims that the significant numbers of trans women who can't have GRS for one reason or another are't really women, you CAN indeed call yourself transexual. Chances are 100% that you know yourself better than anyone else here knows you.

On a more positive note, allow me to add this:

Don't stress about this stuff. You will figure it out as you move through the process. You don't have to make big scary surgery related decisions today, or ever. A LOT of us started out thinking that maybe we didn't' need GRS, and changed our minds later. A lot of us didn't change our minds. Take this as it comes. Try some stuff out. Find out what is right for you. You really can't know what is right for you until you experiment and learn what it is that you want and you need.

YES, lots of this stuff is expensive. Surgery is god-awfully expensive. You can drop $1000 on a purse and matching pumps without exerting any effort. But you don't' have to. There is LOTS of stuff you can do for CHEEP or free. You are a student. Go take advantage of your university health center - where both counseling and HRT is available to you for next to nothing. Buy clothes at goodwill... about 99% of my wardrobe comes from goodwill... and I get compliments on my outfits all the time - sure, there is a lot of crap at goodwill, but there are lots of wonderful finds there too... lots of stuff still with store tags on it... just don't buy the crap. Another wonderful thing about goodwill is that at $4.00 for a piece, you can afford to experiment with looks and fit.

Paint your nails.

Carry a purse.

Learn to walk.

Work on purging your boy mannerisms.

Work on your voice.

Get your ears pierced.

Get a femme hair

There is SOOOOooooo much work to be done, and so much of it is able to be done cheep or free, that being poor (to the extent that you have a place to live et.al.) is not a very good excuse for not getting started until you get further along and the only things left for you to do are surgery related... but by that point... you will be much less ambivalent about it... and the bigots like Kate will bug you less... except when they attack other sisters...

hope couldent have said it any better! hope i love how ya think.

[arbon]

Most of the gg friends, gm friends, and family I have are too busy to spend time with me on the whole so I have nobody to talk to about this and for some the topic makes them uncomfortable anyways. I feel alone, trapped, and abandoned.

Are there any trans support groups or lgbt groups at the college you go to? Just a thought.

[Bree-asaurus]

Despite Kate telling you that a woman is nothing more than a life-support system for a vagina, and her cicsexest bull$hit where she proclaims that the significant numbers of trans women who can't have GRS for one reason or another are't really women, you CAN indeed call yourself transexual. Chances are 100% that you know yourself better than anyone else here knows you.

Kate is harsh and kind of a biotch... but she is right. You're just missing the point...

I used to think she was all full of hate and everything too... but then I took a step back, peeled off that thick, spiky outer crust and saw that she is right. She just doesn't walk on eggshells for everyone.

She is saying that if you don't have the DESIRE to lose the penis and have a vagina, then you're not transexual.

She IS NOT saying that if you can't get SRS, that you're not transexual.

An example: I want SRS. I hate my penis. But if the surgery procedure for SRS is to do the entire operation with the use of splintery wooden spoons while I am wide awake, I wouldn't get it. That doesn't make me any less of a transexual... because I still have the desire to lose the dangly bits. I'd just have to wait for a more humane method :P

[AudreyTN]

and Hope goes in for the killshot! :D



Yes, I get pell grant and stafford loan money and yes that is what I was referring to by taxpayer money since it comes from the government.

I have a sizable amount left over every semester, but I want to make sure I don't spend it in a way that is unethical. But I feel that one's good health is important to attend class, so maybe I won't feel so bad spending it on therapy. :)

well so long as you're not buying booze and illegal drugs with it, and skipping class to drink and do drugs, I don't see anything wrong with using the remaining money for therapy. a healthy mind is a productive one! this is the best time of your life to get it straightened out and on the right path. take advantage of it while you can, they are the best 4-5 years of your life in terms of what you learn, what you can change, what you find out about yourself, and the opportunities you have to be a part of some amazing things, after college, unless you become a rich and famous person with unlimited financial resources, your life will be work, pay bills, clean the house and repeat, with some adventures thrown in here and there, so enjoy every day of it, because once the journey of college is over, reality comes flying at ya really fast!

I'm almost done, a few semesters left, and then I have to go earn my keep. I'm kinda sad, because I have learned SOOOOOO much, and school has actually become fun to me, whereas I use to hate it. But all good things must come to an end, and a new adventures await!

[Kristy_K]

Hi Jessica, now that I have really thought about it. I am sorry for agreeing with Kate. Because it isn't what is in your pants that make you a male of female but what that is in your mind.

Please forgive me,
Kristy

[JessicaM1985]

Thank you Hope!!! (your name is quite fitting here btw. Lol)

I have taken my baby steps (and in some cases huge leaps) in living as a girl. Regardless of the correct term, I am a woman and will live as one. Whether or not I have the term transsexual attached to my name is no longer of importance to me. I have my nails painted all the time, I'm growing them out a bit, and wear makeup often without a thought. My first school payment for this semester is on it's way and after buying books/supplies , I'm hitting the women's clothing section and throwing out most (not all though) of my male clothes. This was my plan since before I came in this forum and one that I've had for for a long time, but lacked the courage and funding to do.

Audrey, thank you for those links. They were very helpful and confirmed my suspicion that I used a term incorrectly. It would seem that the term non-op transsexual isn't used now and that transgendered was the better term for it. Due to my own ignorance, I still fail to see wjy it had to be replaced, but hey, you learn something new everyday right?

As far as male mannerisms go, not all of them are bad and many g.g.s in my family act more male than me anyways. (I honestly fear my sister more than my brother. Lol) Vocal training should be a hoot though since I'm very much a baritone, but we'll see how it goes if/when I come to that bridge.

And again, as I've stated, I never openly declared whether I want srs or not minus earlier in this post. Just a desire for hrt. Mainly because I want breasts. No cismale that I know really wants those and I want 'em bad and see my fail "moobs" and get bummed.
So fine, I'm TG and want boobs. I can live with that, and would be happier for having done so.

[natalie james]

bree, i just don't see why the heck it matters. fighting over labels. i hate it. the same thing happened in the church that i got disillusioned with. "your not a christian because you arent baptist" to me would be the same thing. regardless of what we call ourselves, acording to most of society we are all from CD to TS A to Z "sissy men who wear womens clothing." regardless if we believe we are indeed female inside or not, have had SRS, or identify as any of the mentioned on this thread. case in point ; watch old episodes of "the jerry springer show" featureing TG people.

[Bree-asaurus]

bree, i just don't see why the heck it matters. fighting over labels. i hate it. the same thing happened in the church that i got disillusioned with. "your not a christian because you arent baptist" to me would be the same thing. regardless of what we call ourselves, acording to most of society we are all from CD to TS A to Z "sissy men who wear womens clothing." regardless if we believe we are indeed female inside or not, have had SRS, or identify as any of the mentioned on this thread. case in point ; watch old episodes of "the jerry springer show" featureing TG people.

Did you even read my posts? I specifically said not to worry about labels. The labels don't really matter unless you are transexual and need to declare yourself a transexual for HRT, surgeries, gender changes and stuff.

But if you are going to label yourself, those words have definitions. And if the OP felt so inclined to label herself in the first place, don't you think it's a good idea that she knows what she is actually saying when she applies that label to herself?

And regardless of how much you hate labels, they are there to help describe certain characteristics. Don't you think it's a good idea to educate yourself on the terminology of the subject you are dealing with? You don't hear med students saying "stomach, spleen, whatever... why do we have to label them? They're ALL organs..." And why have this site broken down into crossdressers, MTFs and FTMs? They're all human... what's with the labels???

[JessicaM1985]

And for the record, my indignation wasn't at being told that I'm not T.S., but rather for being told that I should go make money as a *******. I liken the offensiveness in that to telling an african american to go find a job as a slave, and that's why I was upset.

Honest questions deserve honest answers, even if they are voices of disagreement. But at no time is suggesting that I sell my body for the sexual gratification of others acceptable.

[natalie james]

Did you even read my posts? I specifically said not to worry about labels. The labels don't really matter unless you are transexual and need to declare yourself a transexual for HRT, surgeries, gender changes and stuff.

But if you are going to label yourself, those words have definitions. And if the OP felt so inclined to label herself in the first place, don't you think it's a good idea that she knows what she is actually saying when she applies that label to herself?

yeah, i read your posts. that's why i felt compelled to reply "shes just educating her on...." my point is it's not important let alone her place. that's for jessica and her therapist. im gonna get my two inch worthless thing cut offr fo-eva cuz i effin hate it, and i don't call myself TS but opt for TG . this whole arguement is lame. just sayin.

[Bree-asaurus]

And for the record, my indignation wasn't at being told that I'm not T.S., but rather for being told that I should go make money as a *******. I liken the offensiveness in that to telling an african american to go find a job as a slave, and that's why I was upset.

Honest questions deserve honest answers, even if they are voices of disagreement. But at no time is suggesting that I sell my body for the sexual gratification of others acceptable.

That's cool... to each their own. Some transexuals and transgenders do get into porn. Who knows... I may have to go make money as a "*******" for a while to pay bills while people don't hire me because I'm transexual.


yeah, i read your posts. that's why i felt compelled to reply "shes just educating her on...." my point is it's not important let alone her place. that's for her and her therapist. im gonna get my two inch worthless thing cut of fo-eva cuz i effin hate it, and i don't call myself TS but opt for TG . this whole arguement is lame. just sayin.

It's not up to you to decide what's important. This is a public forum. She is entitled to speak her mind just like you are, so it precisely IS her place. Just like it is your place to come here and tell me I shouldn't use labels.

If you don't agree with what someone says, don't listen to them.

[natalie james]

true i guess... you have a point, but whatever. i stand up for my own, and jessica is my friend and a supports system when i really don't otherwise have one besides my shrink. im not gonna waste anymore time arguing.

[natalie james]

oh, wait... if she didnt agree with her label should she have not done the same? now im done :)

[Jorja]

Jessica, this may help you to sort out where you are in the Trans spectrum. For all the critics out there, this is just my interpretation of the definitions that I have gathered over the years. If you have a better way of thinking and can help Jessica sort this all out, please step up and help her.

DEFINITIONS

Gender Identity refers to a person’s actual or perceived sex, and includes a person’s identity, appearance, or behavior, whether or not that identity, appearance, or behavior is different from that traditionally associated with the person’s sex at birth. People who are transgendered (TG or Trans) are people whose anatomies and/or appearances do not conform to those considered appropriate for culturally predominant gender roles. They have physical and/or behavioral characteristics that readily identify them as having a non-conforming gender identity. In other words, TG people, to varying degrees, “transgress” cultural norms as to what a man or a woman “should be.”

Of course, not all people who transgress cultural norms in regards to gender are, or should be, considered TG as we are discussing here. In that case, that would include a woman who works as a pipe fitter or a male nurse. However, when transgender is used in the case of a “sexual minority”, we are generally referring to one of the following five categories:

Transsexuals were born into one gender but identify psychologically and emotionally as the other. Transsexuals are generally thought to have a condition called gender dysphoria (also called Gender Identity Disorder). Those who are born physically male but are emotionally and psychologically female are called Male to Female or MTF’s. Those who are born female but are emotionally and psychologically male are called Female to Male or FTM’s. There is some disagreement as to whether gender dysphoria is a physical condition, a psychological condition or both. Some scientists believe that gender dysphoria occurs when the developing fetus is in the womb and that a chemical imbalance occurs their development, that affects sexual difference.
The primary way transsexuals differ from other TG people is that in almost all cases, they seek to modify their bodies through hormones, SRS (Sexual Reassignment Surgery) or both. This process (which may take several months or many years) is called Transition, where transsexuals will make major life changes in order to bring their physical appearance in line with their gender identity. Some of those changes include changing their name and gender designation on legal documents such as birth certificates, driver’s licenses and social security records. However it is achieved, the ultimate goal of transition is to enable the transsexual to live completely as the gender with which they identify.
It is extremely important to remember that male to female transsexuals are women, just as female to male transsexuals are men and should be referred to and treated as such.

Intersexed people were born exhibiting some combination of both male and female genitalia (usually determined by the doctor to be either a clitoris that is “too large” or a penis that is “too small.”) As one can imagine, such a diagnosis is entirely subjective. At birth, the attending physician or parents or both “choose” which gender to raise the child, necessitating surgery and/or hormonal treatment that must be continued throughout the child’s life. Many intersexed people, now adults, are advocating for an end to the way intersexed children are seen as “damaged goods” needing to be fixed.

Crossdressers (previously known as transvestites) identify as, and are completely comfortable with, their physical gender at birth, but will occasionally dress and take on the mannerisms of the opposite gender. Of course, cross-dressing is more onerous on men, since our culture accepts the idea of a woman wearing pants, but not a man wearing a skirt. Most cross-dressers are heterosexual men. The term transvestite is now considered offensive and should not be used because it is associated with negative images of sexual fetishism.

Drag Performers include people like Ru Paul, or Elvis Herselvis (a well known lesbian Elvis impersonator). Drag performers are precisely that – performers. They dress and act like the “opposite” sex for the entertainment of an audience. For them, drag is a job – not an identity. Some are gay – some are not. Some identify as transgendered – most do not. It is important to be aware of the fact that some people, including many drag performers themselves, do not consider drag performers to be members of the transgendered community.

Gender blenders, bi-gendered, androgynes and others – Not all transgendered people fit neatly into the above categories. For some, such characterizations of gender and gender identity are more constraining than liberating. Gender blenders may or may not identify as one or the other in a binary gender system (i.e. either/or, male/female) and many times will assume a mixture of male and female dress and characteristics, combining elements of both.

Now that you have an understanding on what transgendered is, good luck in finding your place along the rainbow.

[Katesback]

If you need a therapist to tell you your transsexual they you are definitely not transsexual. I am sorry but if you dont know then your not transsexual. You saying you need a therapist to tell you only reinforces my stance.

[natalie james]

If you need a therapist to tell you your transsexual they you are definitely not transsexual. I am sorry but if you dont know then your not transsexual. You saying you need a therapist to tell you only reinforces my stance. is this directed at me or her? i did'tdecide with my therapist, if that's what you mean. besides, still no transition without that recomendation. if someone is really not, they arent getting that note.

[AudreyTN]

Who knows... I may have to go make money as a "*******" for a while to pay bills

:thinking:....the more I read your posts, the more I like you Bree...:D



true i guess... you have a point, but whatever. i stand up for my own, and jessica is my friend and a supports system when i really don't otherwise have one besides my shrink. im not gonna waste anymore time arguing.

:weep: I'm here for ya, and Jessica too.



If you need a therapist to tell you your transsexual they you are definitely not transsexual. I am sorry but if you dont know then your not transsexual. You saying you need a therapist to tell you only reinforces my stance.

:lalala:someone's reaching the point of deserving the title of a 4 letter word I hate to use that starts with a c.............

[natalie james]

they have this thing called the standards of care that says basically that you kind of have to have the therapist agree with you, and the reason these rule are inplace is for thoe that might be confused, or just plain nuts. so yeah, you do need the therapist sort of, by the way. evenif the decision is ultimately on the person. just sayin.

[Nicole Erin]

Gyod, all this stupid debate over labels - the only label you need is "someone living her own life as she sees fit".
it doesn't take some therapist or wanting Lorenna Bobbit to chop off your wang.

"Oh what is a true TS/TG/CD/TV/etc..."

Gyod who cares? it is not like most people really know the difference. To the general public, we are all drag queens/she-males/trannies/whatever.

I was joking with a friend about this once, another TS lady and we were joking about the silliness of labels and she goes - "Actually it does matter, they are gonna start putting your transgender status on your DL in big pink letters".

Oh gyod she is great sometimes cause we are both TS/TG/whatever and WE make jokes about these things.

[natalie james]

Gyod, all this stupid debate over labels - the only label you need is "someone living her own life as she sees fit".
it doesn't take some therapist or wanting Lorenna Bobbit to chop off your wang.

"Oh what is a true TS/TG/CD/TV/etc..."

Gyod who cares? it is not like most people really know the difference. To the general public, we are all drag queens/she-males/trannies/whatever.

I was joking with a friend about this once, another TS lady and we were joking about the silliness of labels and she goes - "Actually it does matter, they are gonna start putting your transgender status on your DL in big pink letters".

Oh gyod she is great sometimes cause we are both TS/TG/whatever and WE make jokes about these things.

this is true, and i agree fully. so lets stop the flame wars.

[Bree-asaurus]

:thinking:....the more I read your posts, the more I like you Bree...:D

Thanks... but I'm just as crazy as everyone else lol

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The op said something very interesting....the op said " I don't know how far I want to go with this"

Every time I hear that, it sets off alarm bells...rightly or wrongly...reading follow up posts I have a better understanding of her comments and how she is thinking.....

I think the op is actually well served to be challenged ...she will be challenged a lot more....who cares if we all disagree...it gives the op diverse points of view...

Name calling is counter productive and I tell Kate all the time ..she sets people off and ends up having her voiceof experience misunderstood..thats a shame...

and many people spend too much time here trying to win arguments..sometimes it's totally appropriate, other times not....
But every time winning the point in a message form doesn't buy you even a sip of coffee, an

[Jorja]

and many people spend too much time here trying to win arguments..sometimes it's totally appropriate, other times not....
But every time winning the point in a message form doesn't buy you even a sip of coffee, an

I hope Kaitlyn Michele didn't get run over by a bus or something. She didn't finish her thought.

[Traci Elizabeth]

d Buy clothes at goodwill... about 99% of my wardrobe comes from goodwill... and I get compliments on my outfits all the time - sure, there is a lot of crap at goodwill, but there are lots of wonderful finds there too... lots of stuff still with store tags on it... just don't buy the crap. Another wonderful thing about goodwill is that at $4.00 for a piece, you can afford to experiment with looks and fit.
...


Well if my friend Hope is paying $4.00 an item at Goodwill, then she is grossly overpaying. My Goodwill (well actually there are 5 within close proximity to my home) offers these prices:

M-W 1/2 Off Sale
Th-Sa $1.00 Sale
Sun 50 ¢ Sale


As the Price is Right says, "Come on down."

And Hope is right, you have to check each piece over carefully because there are a lot of things with stains, tears, missing button, and so outdated you grandmother would not wear it. BUT there are also many great looking clothes some with tags still on them. Every time I go, there are other ladies standing in line waiting for the doors to open. What I do is grab a cart and go through the racks as fast as possible throwing anything I THINK I might like in my cart. Then when I am finished looking, I then pull my cart off to the side and then inspect each item carefully. I put back on the racks any I don't want. My cart has often been so full they were piled high over the top of the cart and the cart becomes heavy to push (LOL).

But is is a great way to spend a morning having fun. I have also seen more TS in Goodwill's than I have in total over the last 5 plus years. But I do not come up to them or bother them as I am sure they want everyone to perceive them as women.

[JessicaM1985]

Kaitlyn, I agree 100% that people have the right to challenge what is said, and I'm glad that people did. It helped to put the reigns on me making what may have been a hasty decision. Instead I'm doing what I need to do and that's to find a good gender therapist that I can afford and gettin my toosh in that office. What happens from there is an unknown that will be revealed in the proper time. If there is one identifiable major flaw in me, it's impatience . It's a curse that I'm learning to deal with. I'm glad that I had the sense to post here first instead of running off half cocked. I'm not mad that people said Im not TS. Im mad for name-calling. But I see that issue as settled and want to get the thread on track again.

To those that posted links, resources, and other helpful items, thank you. That is EXACTLY what I had in mind when I posted the thread and it was very helpful. :)

[Hope]

Kate is harsh and kind of a biotch... but she is right. You're just missing the point...

Well Bree, you are half right.

Here is the point:

The OP gets to define her identity. Not me, not Kate, not you, not anyone else. She will, as we all have had, a disgusting number of disgusting people trying to label her and and insist that she is something that she is not, or not let her be something that she is. But just like no one else gets a vote about YOUR identity (unless you wish to grant that the last guy who called you "sir" has a point?), you don't get a vote on anyone else's. Being TS is not some sort of exclusive club. Being TS does not incur some sort of special status that must be kept away from the uninitiated or malingerers. If someone wants to put that identity on, and try it out and see if it feels, if someone wants to own it - that is their right, because it is THEIR identity - and NO ONE else has any right to define it for them or deny it to them.

Also, (and beside the point) Kate's statement is pretty disgustingly ignorant. Even if we were talking about someone who had transitioned 10 years ago and knew, from hard won experience and soul searching what she wanted (and lets be clear, the OP is just starting out and will likely go through the long journey of discovery most of us did, where our needs and desires changed rather drastically), it would be asinine to tell that woman that she was not a woman because she lacked a part, or a desire for a part, that is absolutely NONE of Kate's business. Kate's assertion that a woman = a vagina is insulting. Or it would be if it were not so belligerently, disgustingly, ignorant. For someone who has supposedly gone through this experience to still be ignorant of the distinction between physical sex, gender identity, and gender presentation seriously calls into question her qualification to speak about trans-anything issues. And you know that.

When serious, legitimate, respected members of this forum, like yourself, support her and defend her, you do nothing but legitimize her and strengthen her ability to do harm to the rest of the members, particularly the new girls.

[Kelsy]

When serious, legitimate, respected members of this forum, like yourself, support her and defend her, you do nothing but legitimize her and strengthen her ability to do harm to the rest of the members, particularly the new girls.


Can I just say, that what most people do not want to hear is “in your face realism” Kate’s point stands regardless of all arguments to the contrary! How many women want to be sporting a penis? Enjoying and keeping your penis points to someone who may have different motivations than purely transsexual ones! Even the OP has admitted that Katie’s post was helpful, be it unsettling! Personally I would rather someone to tell me the truth than P** up my back and tell me it’s raining. Attacking people for agreeing with Kate’s point is what is unwarranted

K

[Aprilrain]

How many women want to be sporting a penis?
K

How many woman identify as TS?

No matter how accepting your GG friends may be at the end of the day they know you don't bleed every month, they know you will never get pregnant, they know you were not raised as a girl. yeah we are woman because that is what are brains keep telling us in spite of our bodies and societal conditioning but we aren't GGs. Who cares if the op wants to keep her penis or not? Those arguing that transsexual = desire for vag should take a look at this.

.http://www.genderpsychology.org/transsexual/benjamin_gd.html

The first type of "transsexual" has an undecided gender identity and most likely does not wish to alter his/her body with surgery.

But let's face it even this is BS rife with sexism and a total misunderstanding of the difference between gender identity and sexual orientation and this was written by the guy for whom the standerds of care are named!

To the OP: a therapist is great, be honest and things will fall in to place.

[LeaP]

That's why these doctors spend 8-16 years in college ON TOP OF the 13 they've already spent in primary education. They're professionals for a reason.

I don't share your confidence in doctors. Even a psych specialist - any type - will be largely or completely ignorant of anything related to gender unless they have taken the time to educate themselves on gender. That may come out of interest or because of patients. Most will never have a trans patient, be involved in gender research, or have ANY topical exposure beyond a few chapters in a text or a lecture or two.

That's not to say that a well trained, responsible, and sensitive therapist, even untrained in gender, can't help. But you start to stack the odds against yourself. Moreover, if YOU aren't armed with some knowledge, you can easily walk into a therapeutic situation that may not be to your benefit (think Anne Lawrence, Keith Ablow, or some religious therapists).

Diagnoses are for access to medications, hormones, and procedures, should one opt to go through gatekeeping via the Standards of Care. They aren't for telling you what you are. At best they are a means of helping you to get yourself there. The key is that while it's true that you can come to a progressive realization of who (or what) you are, most of us can say with certainty what we feel right now. If one doesn't KNOW that they are TS, the shoe doesn't fit for now. It doesn't mean that you might not come to that later, but there is little point in trying to come to such a realization before its time. The therapist's diagnosis, insights, feelings, etc. never, ever substitute for your own inner identity. That one MIGHT eventually realize that they have a deeply surpressed female identity doesn't help much as a practical matter.

Lea

[Traci Elizabeth]

Well Bree, you are half right.

Here is the point:

The OP gets to define her identity. Not me, not Kate, not you, not anyone else. She will, as we all have had, a disgusting number of disgusting people trying to label her and and insist that she is something that she is not, or not let her be something that she is. But just like no one else gets a vote about YOUR identity (unless you wish to grant that the last guy who called you "sir" has a point?), you don't get a vote on anyone else's. Being TS is not some sort of exclusive club. Being TS does not incur some sort of special status that must be kept away from the uninitiated or malingerers. If someone wants to put that identity on, and try it out and see if it feels, if someone wants to own it - that is their right, because it is THEIR identity - and NO ONE else has any right to define it for them or deny it to them.

Also, (and beside the point) Kate's statement is pretty disgustingly ignorant. Even if we were talking about someone who had transitioned 10 years ago and knew, from hard won experience and soul searching what she wanted (and lets be clear, the OP is just starting out and will likely go through the long journey of discovery most of us did, where our needs and desires changed rather drastically), it would be asinine to tell that woman that she was not a woman because she lacked a part, or a desire for a part, that is absolutely NONE of Kate's business. Kate's assertion that a woman = a vagina is insulting. Or it would be if it were not so belligerently, disgustingly, ignorant. For someone who has supposedly gone through this experience to still be ignorant of the distinction between physical sex, gender identity, and gender presentation seriously calls into question her qualification to speak about trans-anything issues. And you know that.

When serious, legitimate, respected members of this forum, like yourself, support her and defend her, you do nothing but legitimize her and strengthen her ability to do harm to the rest of the members, particularly the new girls.


Ahem Sister! I could not have said it better.

[Stephenie S]

Unfortunately, despite her sometimes abrasive manner, Kate is right. She has been there. She has done that. She has an opinion. There is a good deal of truth to her opinion. It's worth thinking about what she says even if you don't agree.

Kate is not here because she needs your support. She is trying to support others. She is blunt. She does not sugar coat anything she says. That doesn't make her mean, just blunt.

Like her or not, that's your right. But think about what she says. There's the voice of experience in there.

S

[Kaitlyn Michele]

amen...?
LOL

btw...i would like to ask this question...purely for the benefit of the OP...

For those that chose to live full time as a woman, and also chose to keep your penis.. why? be specific. don't beat around the bush (can't believe i wrote that , but it just came out that way)...

Anybody out there that is young, no relationship or family obligations to consider, has the option to do what they want, has the resources to get surgery, has no fears of surgical procedures or fears of making a mistake and you
ACTIVELY WANT to keep your penis because you truly desire to have one?

[Traci Elizabeth]

Can I just say, that what most people do not want to hear is “in your face realism” Kate’s point stands regardless of all arguments to the contrary! How many women want to be sporting a penis? Enjoying and keeping your penis points to someone who may have different motivations than purely transsexual ones! Even the OP has admitted that Katie’s post was helpful, be it unsettling! Personally I would rather someone to tell me the truth than P** up my back and tell me it’s raining. Attacking people for agreeing with Kate’s point is what is unwarranted

K


Kelsy, you have enough posts to know the type of responses Kate exhales. Being direct is one thing but when the speaker has her own agenda and her own philosophy that "it's may way or the highway" or life as a woman must be based on the "Kate Doctrine," is when her value vanished into thin air. The OP was not just talking aloud to herself. She was sincerely asking for some help. Having a "Shark" respond as she is famous for serves no one other than Kate's ego.

[Katesback]

Tracy the world population defines someone as male or female by what is between thier legs. It is done from the day we are born. Now I realize gender is in your head but then if we are talking about transition then that is in the eyes of the world. With that said I will ask you a quesiton. Do you feel that someone who lives as a woman in the eyes of the world and has a penis and desires to keep that penis is a woman?

I will let you answer the question. In case your wondering what the rest of the world thinks. They would consider that person a MALE following some desire they probably dont understand.

Women have vaginas and men have penisis and thats what the world cares about. If someone is really TS then they are willing to or want to do whatever they can to have a body that fits thier gender identity in thier head. No I dont bleed and no I cant have a baby but then medicine does not allow me to do that today. If it was possible starting tomarrow I would be first in line to get the upgrade because I am a woman.






Kelsy, you have enough posts to know the type of responses Kate exhales. Being direct is one thing but when the speaker has her own agenda and her own philosophy that "it's may way or the highway" or life as a woman must be based on the "Kate Doctrine," is when her value vanished into thin air. The OP was not just talking aloud to herself. She was sincerely asking for some help. Having a "Shark" respond as she is famous for serves no one other than Kate's ego.

[LeaP]

In case your wondering what the rest of the world thinks. They would consider that person a MALE following some desire they probably dont understand. ... Women have vaginas and men have penisis and thats what the world cares about.

"The world" doesn't give a damn whether or not a transsexual has had SRS. Someone who dismisses transsexuality will do so regardless.

The intersection of identity and motivation for or against surgery is ripe for discussion. But there is no dialog with a predefined, dogmatic answer.

Lea

[Bree-asaurus]

Ugg... I just accidentally closed my browser after typing a long response.... gahhhhhh.... short version:

Hope, Kate doesn't have an agenda. She is here to help just like everyone else. She isn't seriously declaring what other people are, she is challenging them to figure it out for themselves. Kate has every right to share her advice just like you are able to share yours. Kate comes off as harsh, but sometimes that's what people need to balance out all the "roses and butterflies" responses. Just ask all the people she has helped. And please, show me the lives she has destroyed...

I, and many other people here believe the same thing Kate does. If you're physically a male and you DESIRE and WANT to keep your penis, then you're not identifying with the sex opposite your gender... you're not transexual.

Kaitlyn has the same message Kate has... how come you're not jumping all over her? Why not tell her, and me and any other person with an opinion different than yours that we don't have a right to give advice? It's just become a hobby for some of you to jump down Kate's throat.

Lea, there are many situations that can hold you back from being a woman if you do not have SRS. It depends on where you live, what the laws are, and how you live your life. I don't know about you, but I don't plan on identifying as a transexual for the rest of my life.

[Katesback]

The world does give a damm my dear. With rare exceptions you cannot get your paperwork changed till after SRS. Just a wild guess here but I would think that getting a job with a M on your id and looking like a female is harder than having your paperwork in place. Just another wild guess and that is it would be terribly difficult to find a meaningful relationship presenting a woman but having a penis. Hell its very hard for a post-op girl but god its got to be really hard with mismatched parts. Another wild guess, I would say its probably a lot harder to present a woman and be challenged about your gender and not have the parts to back up what you claim to be.

Just a wild guess here but I suspect that years and years of living life as a woman but having a penis takes it toll on the mental well being of a real TS woman.

These are just guesses. What do I know I am just a girl.

As far as Hope goes. Look some people are missing marbles and others are missing a lot of marbles.













"The world" doesn't give a damn whether or not a transsexual has had SRS. Someone who dismisses transsexuality will do so regardless.

The intersection of identity and motivation for or against surgery is ripe for discussion. But there is no dialog with a predefined, dogmatic answer.

Lea

[Traci Elizabeth]

It's just become a hobby for some of you to jump down Kate's throat.




I agree with a lot you say in threads but not this time. I have seen you do the same thing many times Bree as it relates to our Ms. Kate. Surely you are not implying that I want a penis? Inside of me yes but my own...yuck....that's disgusting!

But I still take issue with anyone saying that if you have a penis then you are not TS or a woman OR if you are medically unable to have it converted because of real health issues, age and survivability that you are not a TS or a woman. That is just biased uninformed rhetoric of some.

As some have said it already but it really is none of our business what someone has between their legs or where they think they fit on the gender spectrum. That is 100% their business and decision. And we don't have the right to tell someone that if they don't want their penis converted to a vagina then then they are MALES!

[Bree-asaurus]

But I still take issue with anyone saying that if you have a penis then you are not TS or a woman OR if you are medically unable to have it converted because of real health issues, age and survivability that you are not a TS or a woman. That is just biased uninformed rhetoric of some.

That's the thing... you guys keep using that defense... but I never said that... and Kate has constantly stated that it is the desire to have SRS, not actually having it, that means you're TS. Why do people keep going back to that? It's like you WANT to fight... of course having SRS isn't a requirement for being transexual...

[Traci Elizabeth]

That's the thing... you guys keep using that defense... but I never said that... and Kate has constantly stated that it is the desire to have SRS, not actually having it, that means you're TS. Why do people keep going back to that? It's like you WANT to fight... of course having SRS isn't a requirement for being transexual...

May the Peace be with you!

[Bree-asaurus]

May the Peace be with you!

Don't give me that religious garbage!

And also with you :P

[kellycan27]

While Kate may be right now and then I for one am under no illusion that she is here to be either helpful or supportive. She's said it herself on numerous occasions that she's here for the "entertainment" value. She is constantly saying things that she knows will incite people, and then sits back to watch the fur fly and she's probably laughing at you while it happens. Kate doesn't care about you or your opinions... she only cares about her own, and you can bet your sweet butt that the first time you disagree with her, she'll turn on you too. I see Kate as a nasty and bitter person, who isn't happy unless she's bringing down others to her level of unhappiness. I have been on a number of different forums where this type of behavior would be considered "trolling" Purposely saying inflammatory things to get a reaction. For those of you who fall for her antics under the guise of being "helpful and supportive", I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.....cheap.

Bree

Kate has a hobby of jumping down other people people's throats so wouldn't you say that turnabout is fair play? Or are you so enamored with her rhetoric that you are one the "can't see the forest for the trees" type? Hitler wasn't really a bad guy, he just wanted to help his people by eliminating the people he saw as inferior to himself and his ideal what they should be like.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Don't give me that religious garbage!

And also with you :P

Well I am religious, very much so. We each can make our own choices in that arena.

The one thing you are right about is that this topic of "penis vs vagina = woman" will go on way after you and I are gone. We get in these clashes when we try to help someone and up from the Abyss comes this the voice that "You want to hold on to your penis, well then you are NOT TS and certainly not a woman and never will be. That's the way to help someone struggling with their identity and asking for help? I say NOT - end of story.

[arbon]

Hope, Kate doesn't have an agenda. She is here to help just like everyone else.




Thats not what she said a few days ago. She said she is here because it entertains her.



Maybe they would not jump down her throat if she would stop insulting people.

[kellycan27]

While Kate may be right now and then I for one am under no illusion that she is here to be either helpful or supportive. She's said it herself on numerous occasions that she's here for the "entertainment" value. She is constantly saying things that she knows will incite people, and then sits back to watch the fur fly and she's probably laughing at you while it happens. Kate doesn't care about you or your opinions... she only cares about her own, and you can bet your sweet butt that the first time you disagree with her, she'll turn on you too. I see Kate as a nasty and bitter person, who isn't happy unless she's bringing down others to her level of unhappiness. I have been on a number of different forums where this type of behavior would be considered "trolling" Purposely saying inflammatory things to get a reaction. For those of you who fall for her antics under the guise of being "helpful and supportive", I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.....cheap.

Bree

Kate has a hobby of jumping down other people people's throats so wouldn't you say that turnabout is fair play? Or are you so enamored with her rhetoric that you are one the "can't see the forest for the trees" type? Hitler wasn't really a bad guy, he just wanted to help his people by eliminating the people he saw as inferior to himself and his ideal of a super race, or in this case.. super woman

[Bree-asaurus]

While Kate may be right now and then I for one am under no illusion that she is here to be either helpful or supportive. She's said it herself on numerous occasions that she's here for the "entertainment" value. She is constantly saying things that she knows will incite people, and then sits back to watch the fur fly and she's probably laughing at you while it happens. Kate doesn't care about you or your opinions... she only cares about her own, and you can bet your sweet butt that the first time you disagree with her, she'll turn on you too. I see Kate as a nasty and bitter person, who isn't happy unless she's bringing down others to her level of unhappiness. I have been on a number of different forums where this type of behavior would be considered "trolling" Purposely saying inflammatory things to get a reaction. For those of you who fall for her antics under the guise of being "helpful and supportive", I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.....cheap.

Bree

Kate has a hobby of jumping down other people people's throats so wouldn't you say that turnabout is fair play? Or are you so enamored with her rhetoric that you are one the "can't see the forest for the trees" type? Hitler wasn't really a bad guy, he just wanted to help his people by eliminating the people he saw as inferior to himself and his ideal what they should be like.

Of course Kate has a habit of being a blunt bitch. I said that myself lol.

And I've had issues with Kate... that's for sure. And I still have issues with some of the things she says. Don't confuse me for some kind of cultist Kate follower. I don't know her, we're not friends. And if she "turns on me" I will debate with her the way I debate with others, and the way I have debated with her in the past. But I have known people like her in real life so I don't believe she's here entirely for shits and giggles. And if she is, it doesn't make any difference because I still see her bluntness to be important regardless of her intentions.

She has said things I don't agree with in the past, and when she says them again, I'll be here to disagree.

I don't agree with anyone here 100%, and while there are certain people I look up to, I will never side with someone because I'm "enamored" with them.

I like how you're now attacking me with THAT BS simply because Kate and I agree on a couple things. Yes... I must be crazy for agreeing with Kate. So is everyone else who agrees with Kate on any issue.

[LeaP]

The world does give a damm my dear. With rare exceptions you cannot get your paperwork changed ...

I'm not minimizing the importance of the bureaucratic bs, but it's not a psychological identity issue (the topic) and somehow the majority of the TS population - which I believe is non-op or pre-op - deals.

My comment about the world not caring was in reference to the general public's attitude.

Lea

[Katesback]

first of all it is true I am here for the entertainment value. I have said it before and today I say it again. I used to care, I used to try to help people but if there is one thing I learned is that for the most part trans people dont listen or hear anything but what they want to hear. A simple case in point and perhaps why I find it so entertaining is that several times in JUST THIS POST people have gathered I am others said that if you have a penis your not TS. LOL I NEVER said that. So yes I sit here laughing.

Also I find it entertaining to call people on the BS that is all to often here. I am sorry but not long ago someone posted about thier FFS. The girl was sitting at her HOME less than a week after the so called FFS with some tape on her face. I and all those that had FFS laughed but to my suprise I saw a bunch of people writting to tell him/her how great they looked and all.

I have to ask you people. Is it REALLY supportive when you tell someone they look good when they dont? Is it really supportive to tell someone that after 15 years of therapy and still on the fence about being TS that they will figure it out? No that person needs thier ass beat and needs to make a freaking decision one way or the other.

I would suggest to you that support comes in a variety of forms. Some of us just dont have the patience to play the tranny games. For that I actually am supportive here. If you dont agree with me thats fine. I am keenly aware that a precious few are really serious and even less get SRS. If your happy hanging out with trans people that tell you your doing great when your not. If your happy to talk about a perfect world hey this is you place.

So once again. You dont like what I say thats fine. I really dont care. You not my friend, I really dont care what you think of me. If you want to be a woman/man with a penis, hey knock your self out. I really dont care but if you with the perpetual penis think your going to be like me, or Katlyn, Stephanie, or a few others that have walked the walk your smoking crack.





Thats not what she said a few days ago. She said she is here because it entertains her.



Maybe they would not jump down her throat if she would stop insulting people.

[Bree-asaurus]

first of all it is true I am here for the entertainment value. [...] I really dont care. You not my friend, I really dont care what you think of me.

There Kellycan, you're right on a couple counts... but my opinion is still the same lol :P

[kellycan27]

Of course Kate has a habit of being a blunt bitch. I said that myself lol.

And I've had issues with Kate... that's for sure. And I still have issues with some of the things she says. Don't confuse me for some kind of cultist Kate follower. I don't know her, we're not friends. And if she "turns on me" I will debate with her the way I debate with others, and the way I have debated with her in the past. But I have known people like her in real life so I don't believe she's here entirely for shits and giggles. And if she is, it doesn't make any difference because I still see her bluntness to be important regardless of her intentions.

She has said things I don't agree with in the past, and when she says them again, I'll be here to disagree.

I don't agree with anyone here 100%, and while there are certain people I look up to, I will never side with someone because I'm "enamored" with them.

I like how you're now attacking me with THAT BS simply because Kate and I agree on a couple things. Yes... I must be crazy for agreeing with Kate. So is everyone else who agrees with Kate on any issue.

How did I attack you? I asked a question. i didn't make any accusations??? I asked. you answered. Geez, does a building have to fall on some people? I repeat.. Kate herself has stated on more than a few occasions that she's "only" here for the entertainment value. Even crazy people have a moment when they are lucid.. does that make them any less crazy? Kate is looking down her nose at you people, and you give her props for saying you are less than she. You crack me up. Now I am laughing.

[Katesback]

One of the most entertaining things about some of the people here is they take serious offense to what I say. Take for example on of the girls here that will nearly always write a damms book in her responses when she disagrees with something someone says. The irony is that if they are upset at what someone says on the internet then how preparred for the real world are you? I mean seriously. If I recall a thick skin is one of those things that a TS really needs. So theres some more support I am offering.

Another entertaining thing is how many of people here will take serious disagreement with something someone who is an expert says. You know I am not a car saleswoman. I would not begin to assume I know what its like to be a car salesman. So for you the person who has yet to have SRS to disagree with me when i say transition really begines after SRS is absurd. It provides laughter because I know what is real because I lived it. You have not so if you disagree with those words it tends to make you look like a fool.

Yes I am here for entertainment. I mean what do I have to walk away with from here? Really? On the other hand I do enjoy watching people evolve and grow. I do get to see it with new girls in rollerderby and I infrequently see it here. An example is one of our girls recently got FFS. I talk to her on the phone shes real, she has my respect, and I have seen her grow. I know she will eventually walk away from the trans community because shes a real girl. That makes me proud. I feel good because I was there to help her in some small way.

So yes I do help people on occasion. Those that are serious.

Katie

[Bree-asaurus]

How did I attack you? I asked a question. i didn't make any accusations??? I asked. you answered. Geez, does a building have to fall on some people? I repeat.. Kate herself has stated on more than a few occasions that she's "only" here for the entertainment value. Even crazy people have a moment when they are lucid.. does that make them any less crazy? Kate is looking down her nose at you people, and you give her props for saying you are less than she. You crack me up. Now I am laughing.

LOL... yes, you did ask me... a very stupid question... asking me if I followed Kate like a Nazi followed Hitler. Let me ask you a question? Are you friggin nuts?

But now you ARE accusing me of saying I am less than her... I don't recall saying that anywhere. I have said that I agree with her opinion stated in this thread, and I do like that her bluntness balances out a lot of the happy-go-lucky responses. OMG I AM PUTTING HER ON A PEDESTAL LOL

Anyway, this has gotten even more ridiculous than it already was.

Forgive me for sharing an opinion... jesus.

[kellycan27]

LOL... yes, you did ask me... a very stupid question... asking me if I followed Kate like a Nazi followed Hitler. Let me ask you a question? Are you friggin nuts?

But now you ARE accusing me of saying I am less than her... I don't recall saying that anywhere. I have said that I agree with her opinion stated in this thread, and I do like that her bluntness balances out a lot of the happy-go-lucky responses. OMG I AM PUTTING HER ON A PEDESTAL LOL

Anyway, this has gotten even more ridiculous than it already was.

Forgive me for sharing an opinion... jesus.

I never asked or implied that you followed kate in the same fashion as people followed Hitler... It was an anology. Nor did I say that you said said you were less than her. What I did say is that she implies it and people give her props for saying it. We might be able to have a better dialog if you read the words as written instead of trying to read between the lines. am I friggin nuts? Stupid questions? I never attacked you in any way shape or form. You are welcome to your opinion as am I .. You see her as spewing some kind of tough love for the good of all.. I see her as spitting in the face of those who are not just like her.... She's probably sitting back right now laughing at you, not me. I've been there and got the t-shirt, and i am livin it. her BS means nothing to me and believe it or not if you could put your ego aside for a moment you might just see that I am not against you.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Still no votes for I'm a woman and I want to keep my penis?

This was mentioned by the original poster and she did a great job of clarifying her initial comments, which were basically an open ended question..

Being transsexual is totally independent of what's between your legs...

Political correctness means nothing in the day to day world... We all live in the day to day world...there is no law that says a ts woman needsnto get srs and Kates or she will fail in life..

But my feeling is that a ts woman rarely if ever actively wants to live with a penis unless OTHER FACTORS are the driving force and sometimes other factors can't be avoided... Women don't want men's body parts

the experience of your body conforming to your gender is vastly superior both from an internal and external perspective....it's just the way it is...

Folks that thrive without srs are a testament to what a good attitude and lots of self esteem can do...but it's not optimal for a woman's life and it's not likely an aspiration for young women that are transsexual..

[Bree-asaurus]

I never asked or implied that you followed kate in the same fashion as people followed Hitler... It was an anology.

What do you think an analogy is?


Nor did I say that you said said you were less than her. What I did say is that she implies it and people give her props for saying it.

There was no implying... you said "you give her props for saying you are less than she"


We might be able to have a better dialog if you read the words as written instead of trying to read between the lines.

Nope, I'm reading your words. When I assumed there was some level of caring behind Kate's posts despite her saying it was all for her entertainment was reading between the lines.


am I friggin nuts? Stupid questions? I never attacked you in any way shape or form. You are welcome to your opinion as am I.

If I'm so welcome to my opinion, why did you feel the need to join this thread simply to question if my opinion was the result of blindly following Kate?


You see her as spewing some kind of tough love for the good of all.. I see her as spitting in the face of those who are not just like her.... She's probably sitting back right now laughing at you, not me. I've been there and got the t-shirt, and i am livin it.

You're exaggerating. Regardless of the fact that I thought there was some caring behind her words, I already stated that despite her intentions, I think what she sometimes brings to the table is warranted. I care not of what she thinks of me.... Hold on... I have to go cry for a second because Kate does not love me... OKAY I'm back. I'll bottle up my feelings of rejection for now ;)


her BS means nothing to me and believe it or not if you could put your ego aside for a moment you might just see that I am not against you.

Then the point of your posts was...



AND....


Still no votes for I'm a woman and I want to keep my penis?

This was mentioned by the original poster and she did a great job of clarifying her initial comments, which were basically an open ended question..

Being transsexual is totally independent of what's between your legs...

Political correctness means nothing in the day to day world... We all live in the day to day world...there is no law that says a ts woman needsnto get srs and Kates or she will fail in life..

But my feeling is that a ts woman rarely if ever actively wants to live with a penis unless OTHER FACTORS are the driving force and sometimes other factors can't be avoided... Women don't want men's body parts

the experience of your body conforming to your gender is vastly superior both from an internal and external perspective....it's just the way it is...

Folks that thrive without srs are a testament to what a good attitude and lots of self esteem can do...but it's not optimal for a woman's life and it's not likely an aspiration for young women that are transsexual..

Careful... if you have the same opinion as Kate, they're going to hang you for it...

[kellycan27]

That is just a bold face lie. As a matter of fact the only person who has asked to "contact" me was you. You wanted me to call you so that you could explain "better" some of the poison that you spew here. and my reply was.. no, I would rather discuss it in open forum for all to see. You have reached a new low Kate even for you by telling lies and trying to cast doubt on me. I guess I must have hit a nerve.:heehee:

[arbon]

I just thought I would point that out.

Right, the real girls that sit around pointing out who's a serious tranny worthy of their support and help, who's not, who's a fake, who needs their asses kicked, laughing at the fruitcakes.... while hanging out on a crossdressers forum.

Sounds like a fun club.


unreal

[Jorja]

And all this BS is helping Jessica, how?

[Melody Moore]

And all this BS is helping Jessica, how?
That is what I was thinking, however now she will get to know the real truth about the transsexual community &
how some post operative women like to wear their SRS as an elitist rank that gives them the right to talk down
and belittle others who are in need of support and are trying to find themselves. Kate is definitely not the first
armchair commando that I have come across who is like this. Those who I have meet turn to water when they had
to deal with me face to face in the real world because they don't have the same type of security provided to them
sitting behind a keyboard and a computer screen. So I have to really wonder how much entertainment value Kate
really would find in this subject if this conversation was taking place in the real world? :D So never feed the trolls!

I said in one of my first posts to the OP that the best advice at this point of time
was to see a therapist, and anything else in the meantime is just "useless noise".

[JessicaM1985]

*sits back munching popcorn and drinking soda*

You know, I feel partly responsible in all this, but this is just too much. I just wanted some resources. If you want to help, stop giving opinions and start posting some links. That's all I wanted. I'm brand new to the community and already I feel jaded. If I had a lower sense of self esteem, I might have believed that all I was was a random ******* destined for the porn industry because apparently that's what non-op transsexuals are seen as right? Nevermind that I have a male SO that I love and would not be able to continur having a relationship with if I got my thing hacked off. Nevermind that I want to have children, naturrally, and am willing to put up with the internal and external hate to have a baby any way that I can. The day that my man tells me he doesn't care coupled with the day they find a way to allow transgenders to give birth will be the day I'm ready to have srs. Until then I really have no choice but to suck it up.

Judge as you see fit. I've made my choice and since non-op transsexual is a taboo term which incites pointless flame wars, I will identify as transgendered on these forums. Everybody a happy camper now?

[Bree-asaurus]

*sits back munching popcorn and drinking soda*

You know, I feel partly responsible in all this, but this is just too much. I just wanted some resources. If you want to help, stop giving opinions and start posting some links. That's all I wanted. I'm brand new to the community and already I feel jaded. If I had a lower sense of self esteem, I might have believed that all I was was a random ******* destined for the porn self esteem because apparently that's what non-op transsexuals are seen as right? Nevermind that I have a male SO that I love and would not be able to continur having a relationship with if I got my thing hacked off. Nevermind that I want to have children, naturrally, and am willing to put up with the internal and external hate to have a baby any way that I can. The day that my man tells me he doesn't care coupled with the day they find a way to allow transgenders to give birth will be the day I'm ready to have srs. Until then I really have no choice but to suck it up.

Judge as you see fit. I've made my choice and since non-op transsexual is a taboo term which incites pointless flame wars, I will identify as transgendered on these forums. Everybody a happy camper now?

LOL You didn't do anything wrong. There are huge rifts in this community and with such sensitive topics, it's all too easy for people to misunderstand others, get offended or spread their own personal agenda.

If you stick around, you'll see that a couple threads a week will turn into this kind of war...

[Melody Moore]

Jessica, I agree with Bree, you did nothing wrong and if you identify as a non-op transsexual and also reject
the '*******' demeaning & derogatory labels others have tried to apply to you, then that is your human right.

:hugs:

[Danni Bear]

If I could inject a bit of civility and temperance into this conversation.

A person who opts to retain their origional equipment, be it a penis or a vagina in the case of our FTM brothers does not make them more or less TS. There are myriad reasons for this and really it is none of our business. Being pre-op, non-op or post-op is not a requirment to be TS. A TS knows whether they are male or female others opinions don't matter.

I realize that when these type of issues arise that tempers and egos get involved. This does not and never will help anyone. Anyone with even a half of a brain can see this. Do you really want to help or are you interested in promoting an agenda. Yes, as a community we have problems, discourses like this have a detrimental effect on everyone. Opiniones and beliefs matter but need to be used judically.

Attacking each other is counter-productive and causes the poster to abandon their search. Even when the abandoment is temporary they lose hope and suffer. Try and remember when you first started on this journey,did you have all the answers? I didn't and I started long before many of you were even born. I still don't have the answers to all my questions and concerns.

Kate, entertainment is fine but not at the expense of someone else, that is cruelty. Would you like it if you were on the recieving end? I can understand your position on many things you post on but that doesn't make it right or necessary. Honest and considered answers are what those who are following your trail need not scarsasm and belittlement. This life is hard enough without we ourselves putting obstacles in the path.


Danni Bear

[taís]

Jess dear <3
unfortunately I don't have resources or experience to share with you. but let me tell you this: you need to put some viking metal in you mix! as a metal grrl you have the power to morph epic riffs and fat hooky choruses into limpid life power... go there and drain 'em! I prescribe you 1 Korpiklaani, 2 Amon Amarth and 1/2 Tyr everyday, until results are shown. you'll feel energized, powerful and prepared to battle your way into being more and more united with yourself and how you present yourself in this world. go and conquer!

;***

ps: therapists are great scouts on the battlefield ^ ^

[JessicaM1985]

I agree melody and thank you. I'm kinda meh at this point because I can't think of a guy that wants to alter their body with hrt and in other ways with the exception of srs because of a desire to want to have children. I would call that transsexual. Like I said, if they come up with a way that I can get pregnant with my own baby, I'll cut it off myself if need be. (relax, figure of speech) Until then, I put up with it's existence and know that there's,a life,of,hell that goes with it. Children of my own are more important to me than being mommy with daddy bits. If I have kids and am sure I don't want more, then to the guillotine it goes.

Slightly off-topic, but anyone noticed the irony in the fact that each time Bree posted her signature popped up and yet people kept arguing? I'm rolling in my chair at this observation here. :lol:

And Tais, I love all three of those bands, especially Amon Amarth. Though I find it amazingly ironic to listen to songs of blood and war while painting my toenails and asking for peace. :lol:

[Bree-asaurus]

I agree melody and thank you. I'm kinda meh at this point because I can't think of a guy that wants to alter their body with hrt and in other ways with the exception of srs because of a desire to want to have children. I would call that transsexual. Like I said, if they come up with a way that I can get pregnant with my own baby, I'll cut it off myself if need be. (relax, figure of speech) Until then, I put up with it's existence and know that there's,a life,of,hell that goes with it. Children of my own are more important to me than being mommy with daddy bits. If I have kids and am sure I don't want more, then to the guillotine it goes.

Slightly off-topic, but anyone noticed the irony in the fact that each time Bree posted her signature popped up and yet people kept arguing? I'm rolling in my chair at this observation here. :lol:

And Tais, I love all three of those bands, especially Amon Amarth. Though I find it amazingly ironic to listen to songs of blood and war while painting my toenails and asking for peace. :lol:

Yeah, the answer to that is "no." No we can't all get along... lol

[Stephanie-L]

Having recently been on the receiving end of a Kate Flaming (TM), I do understand the OP's feelings a bit. Let me say this, Some of the things that Kate said to me were right (OMG, I don't belive I said it), but she said them in such a negative and derogatory manner that I instantly closed down. It was only after several other of the fine folks here posted similar things in a less accusative manner that I was able to absorb the advice. Kate is a bigot, anybody who is TS but not like her, is not TS in her eyes, so you just need to filter her through that lens. If Kate wants to help others, though she has said she does not, then perhaps she will consider this, or perhaps she is a troll, just here to stir trouble for her own amusement.
Jessica, several have said to go get counselling, trans specific if you can find it, anything if you can't. One piece of advice, stay away from religous based counselors, they will try to "cure" and pray away the evil in you. You are in college, they probably have a mental health person for free or low cost sessions, and if there is a medical school you can see a variety of psychiatric/psychology residents/students.
There are really very few times when the label truely matters, unfortunately one is if you do decide you want SRS. You do not know if you want that yet, you may, you may not. Eventually you will work it out, you are young, but don't feel rushed, I am much older than you and just starting to make some headway myself. I know of several older TS on this forum and others, some who had SRS much later in life even than me. Do not let the label bit worry you now, you will eventually know, not all TS are the same, and not all started out young, some were much better at repression than others.
Good luck, and please let us know how you are doing..............Stephanie

[Katesback]

No actually Kelly I am not telling a lie. The girls I have talked to mention that they feel your a fake. They point out that they dont know you, have not talked to you, dont know anybody who ever has talked to you or seen you. This is what they tell me. I am NOT lieing. Conversly speaking I want to be clear here and say I really have no idea if your fake or not. But then I have never talked to you and I have seen the pictures you put up here and they sure look like photoshop jobs. I will say that.

Perhaps we should ask the other people. Has anyone here EVER talked to on the phone, skype, in person. Kelly? Does anyone have any evidence that she actually is real?

For me I will put forth Katlyn who has actually met me, and Stephanie S who I talk to, and whoooo else. Oh yea Zunie. Oh and some have seen me or met me several years ago at SCC. Has anyone ever met you?

Katie




That is just a bold face lie. As a matter of fact the only person who has asked to "contact" me was you. You wanted me to call you so that you could explain "better" some of the poison that you spew here. and my reply was.. no, I would rather discuss it in open forum for all to see. You have reached a new low Kate even for you by telling lies and trying to cast doubt on me. I guess I must have hit a nerve.:heehee:

[Bree-asaurus]

No actually Kelly I am not telling a lie. The girls I have talked to mention that they feel your a fake. They point out that they dont know you, have not talked to you, dont know anybody who ever has talked to you or seen you. This is what they tell me. I am NOT lieing. Conversly speaking I want to be clear here and say I really have no idea if your fake or not. But then I have never talked to you and I have seen the pictures you put up here and they sure look like photoshop jobs. I will say that.

Perhaps we should ask the other people. Has anyone here EVER talked to on the phone, skype, in person. Kelly? Does anyone have any evidence that she actually is real?

For me I will put forth Katlyn who has actually met me, and Stephanie S who I talk to, and whoooo else. Oh yea Zunie. Oh and some have seen me or met me several years ago at SCC. Has anyone ever met you?

Katie

I'm not taking sides nor getting into this... I just had to say it though... maybe we should start a new thread called "Can the REAL KellyCan please stand up?" Sorry! I had to! :P

Purely a joke, Kelly please don't be offended lol

On another note... I wish I could meet some of the people here... that would be sooo cool. There are a few girls here who I really look up to, who have seriously helped me in times of need. Sounds silly seeing as I've never met them or anything... but it would be cool if I could.

EDIT: And I think this is the 5th or 6th topic this thread has switched too since the beginning lol...

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Melissa
To be honest some of us really have went through a lot of crap, and there is a lot of bitterness and loss to work through,,,you would be well served to take note..it truly can be part of the deal...websites and resources help a lot, but nothing compares to experience... helping people locally I am often awed by the amount of crap heaped on transsexuals...and in the end,our choice is deal with it and overcome up...or else.

This is why that cutting through the bs is so important..

Hope u enjoyed the popcorn..

[Nicole Erin]

GYOD all this arguing over what label Jessica should wear! Man, it is all bullcrap! "Oh no, you are not allowed to call yourself a transsexual!" SO F'ING WHAT what anyone calls themselves.

So Jessica, here is some real advice -
figure out what you want versus what is realistic. Figure out how far you want to go with what is possible. Things you can do to aid transition that are not costly -

train your voice to sound as a woman (I can help with this, I have a female voice and no, one does NOT lose their male voice)

Learn about fashion for women your age and build. What would work for everyday presentation? My style is business casual at work or hip chic on the streets.

Remember that there will be some saying you are not a "True TS" Well sister, I am not a so-called "true TS" either. it does not stop me from living as a woman.

If need be, start working on weight loss and body toning. And stay off the stupid fitness forums. they bicker worse than WE do. Only their thing is "Anyone who is not a buff muscle head is a wuss".

Drink pepsi if you like soda cause if you drink Coke, you are not a true soda addict.

Visit this forum for entertainment but do not count on it for much real advice.

Realize there is a lot of ass-kissing going on so someone will post something rude and someone else will tag along and say, "I agree".

And the most important thing here - If you like 80's style heavy metal (not that bon jovi or Poison crap but real metal) then check out Helloween's songs on their "7 sinners" CD. It is new and it will blow you away! Youtube it. "The song Who is mr Madman" will knock your socks off!

Are you metal? ARE YOU? ARE YOU?

[Melody Moore]

Realize there is a lot of ass-kissing going on so someone will post something rude and someone else will tag along and say, "I agree".
Take a reality check will you? Just because someone agrees with another person's opinions
this has nothing to do with playing favourites or arse kissing. People here have different opinions
and I don't see anyone playing favourites here. Some actually do agree with Kate, but personally
I think those opinions are as equally bigoted when they agree with someone like Kate sometimes.
And you certainly don't win any browny points with me for giving someone else like Kate a swelled
head.

So please stop marginalising and trying to vilify everyone else in
this community just because you don't share the same opinion.

[ReineD]

And all this BS is helping Jessica, how?

Exactly. Thread closed.