crossdressing is too taboo!

[Pinky188]

So I have been watching these shows for the past several months on transgender people. Its great that they are getting the recognition that they deserve, but where does that leave us, who like being a guy/girl that just wants to present as the opposite sex once and a while? We have a long way to go in being accepted in the mainstream. To me this is a very big problem but I am awear that it is a hard thing for the general public to accept. I just wish people could be more open minded! Excuse my misspellings!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Pinky, We have a long way to go yet.

[sonna]

i guess it depends were you live some pleces are more accepting.

[Barbara Ella]

I agree Pinky. And even in locales that are more accepting in general, the overwhelming majority of people do not look too favorably on us. We just must persevere and continue to put forth the most favorable foot for the public to see, even if it is well heeled, and continue to work for the overall transgendered population of which we are a part. We just need to make sure that the rising water lifts all boats.

If we think too deeply we might only focus on the darker side that we live with. So, I cannot go deep all the time as I must also have some fun in my life.

Babes

[Lorileah]

You are correct. The largest (other than fetish) section of the transgender community are just people who like to dress up once in awhile, and yet they are the least seen. But realize that what most do here is not noteworthy to the public. Just looking like woman is not "sexy" to everyday people. It is just everyday. The drags are over the top. Someone going through SRS brings out a feeling for the person. Of course perverts and crazies get top billing on the news.

One thing that will help us "everyday" people is being out and about. As long as we believe the story that what we do is "wrong" and that w are "bad" or "strange" and we stay hidden we will never break that mold. The closet is not our friend. We have to start educating people. And the shows you talk about may not really help (sorry all you RuPaul fans but she isn't advancing anything but hatred and comical relief. People watch for the outrageous "GAY" acting)

[Princess Chantal]

I haven't had any issues in being accepted for my crossdressing by the general public. It seems to be the transgender community that does not embrace the full diversity of the crossdressing population. Possibly due to the fears of stereotyping

[DanaR]

The more that the general public has positive experiences with us, the better. I know that the Seattle group, Emerald City does some outreach in schools; which is a huge step toward creating a positive image to the general public.

[Maggey]

As I remember history, women voting was considered taboo as well. Society is afraid of change and what they do not understand.

[Miranda-E]

So I have been watching these shows for the past several months on transgender people. Its great that they are getting the recognition that they deserve, but where does that leave us, who like being a guy/girl that just wants to present as the opposite sex once and a while? We have a long way to go in being accepted in the mainstream. To me this is a very big problem but I am awear that it is a hard thing for the general public to accept. I just wish people could be more open minded! Excuse my misspellings!

what are you doing to raise awareness and build acceptance?

[nvlady]

It's kind of funny reading the posts on this forum. This post is wondering if we will ever be accepted, but another post on the same day says that she went out and most people didn't notice and the ones that noticed didn't care. She also stated (or another responder did) that 95% don't notice and the other 5% don't care or don't say anything.

[Jacqueline Winona]

There was a show a few years ago on one of the cable channels about CD ("All dressed up but no place to go"). But I agree with you generally. Miranda- good question, and for me the answer would be not enough. I'm trying to be more brave when I want to buy things, not make excuses, hopefully the rest of the public will see us in a better light that way.

[sissystephanie]

It was interesting to read nvlady's post on this thread! For the past 6+ years I have been going out in public dressed enfemme almost every day. But I wear no wig or makeup. In other words, I am a man in ladies clothing. And I do mean totally feminine. The only comments I have heard are compliments on the outfit I am wearing, or being asked where I bought my skirt or blouse! If you are decently covered, and not real showy, most people just don't care!

The major problems with most crossdressers is their own fears! Ones that are only in their heads, not in other peoples heads! Once they learn to conquer their own fears, they will be a lot better off.

[Alice Torn]

Sissysteph, Very good post. I no longer am terrified to go shopping for lady items, dressed in guy stuff. I still struggle with fear of going out, though. You are so right, that most of the problem is in our heads, all that fear stuff, making us our worst enemies.

[Tanya C]

One of the things we can do to help gain acceptance is at the grassroots level by meeting the public face to face. I realize it isn't feasible for many cders but for those of us who go out we have a great opportunity to leave a favorable impression on the people with whom we interact. We can do this by generally conducting ourselves with propriety and presenting appropriately. Being friendly and outgoing doesn't hurt either.
I know this places a bit of a burden on us when we are out in public, but it also gives us a taste of what other minorities have had to do throughout the years to gain acceptance.

[NathalieX66]

Several years ago, I virtually never saw transgender people. I thought it was something that was either something only found on the internet or some kind of exotic escort service. But in public, where are they??

Then I decided to dig deeper and find support groups and activities for people who were similar in my situation. They helped get me out in public. I spent several months on my presentation (makeup & clothes) before I developed the confidence to go out in the most public places (shopping malls, restaurants, movie theatres, car rental desks at the airport). Unless I am going to some place fun, like a club, I dress to blend in. And Pinky, since you are from NoVa, I happened to pop into Panera, I think it was in West Springfield, I can't remember. Yes, I occasionally got a look here or two, but I was treated well by just about every one. And just before that, I asked people to take pictures of me in front of the White House. Want to know what happened? I had more people, mainly tourists, ask me to take pictures of them then I asked of my self. The reality, for the most part, is people really don't care. They are too preoccupied with their own lives to even notice you, unless you happened to be over six feet seven, and wearing 5" stiletto heels.

One of the biggest obstacles is not so much public acceptance, but developing self confidence. How you feel about yourself inside, and not care what others think will make you go along way. Until I get refused from a restaurant or a store, strongly believe such things as acceptance in public is possible. Unless people are aquainted with crossdressers and transgender folk, they will never understand them. And like my very first sentence, most people have never seen a transgender person.

This is me at Chili's (a chain restaurant) in Hanover, NJ.

[Jilmac]

I don't mind being looked down upon by those naysayers. Maybe they're looking down on me because I'm short.

[Lynn Marie]

So I'm standing outside the LGBT club that me and my CD girlfriends go to cooling off and trying to avoid the cigarette smoke. One of the gay gentlemen and I were talking and he stated that "now we gays are being accepted and you cross dressers are now the perverts"! What a profound statement. I'd like to hope that it will be just a matter of time.

[Vickie_CDTV]

It is funny, when I was young there was quite a bit on tv and such about crossdressing, it was a staple of daytime talk shows in the era of Phil Donahue back in the 80s. Heterosexual TVism even appeared in episode storylines in some tv shows back then; I distinctly remember on the Golden Girls Sophia's brother was a TV and one episode revolved completely around his dressing impacted his wife (a friend who worked in the industry claimed Tri-Ess was a consultant for many of those tv episodes that dealt with crossdressing, I'd love to know if that was actually true or not.)

I guess crossdressing was a curiosity back then, I suppose the idea of an average straight guy dressing up once in a while just isn't sensational enough nowadays.

[noeleena]

Hi,

This of cause depends on where you live what county & who you are where you worked schools clubs & other groups.

one point is attatude how you get on with other people & accepted .

Im a Kiwi, have been accepted tho im different & how i go about issues & how i relate to & with people having a high profile does change things, you are seen more so than most people you are looked at & some people do wonder as to what who & the difference that i show,

as you look at my pic youll see im more male looking in my facial features yet im a woman. & i have been acceped in the main & those who dont know me soon do if they wont to. im very public & have been in front of many 1000's of people ,

This of cause depends on have you the confidence & know who you are as a person first , then as the case may be a male or woman you have to be strong in mind & know how to answer or show people those of us who are different can be acceped & the only way this will happen is go out mix with people & gain thier acceptance, you just have to know how to do that & be very sure of your self ,

For my self pretty much every thing worked & not many problems , dont be put off by a few who are rednecks or seem like it . oh dear theres more to this than i can write about here. For my self it worked because i was ....ready ....& that was.... so so ... important because i know nothing would have worked if i had not been ,
For my self my changes have been the difference between could not talk in front of people or groups haveing dyslixca was a major stumbling block & not being able to learn allways last in all subjects at school so learning became a issue, 5 years ago things changed so then & now i can talk to people & have the confindence to do that,.T V ,papers not a problem. we can do it when we are ready,.

...noeleena...

[JessicaM1985]

I get so disgusted with myself sometimes due to my complete fear of going out. I've never been accused of cowardice in my 26 years of life, but when I'm dressed at home and someone even knocks at the door, I go and run and hide in my room. This fear, shame and guilt of being who I am is driving me insane. I've already gotten a ton of flak for being an openly bisexual "male", that being persecuted for being TG as well is just too much. But then when I sit at home expressing my real self, I feel isolated and cut off from the world. I find that the idea of going out with somebody while I'm dressed is less stress-inducing. But nobody I know is 100% comfortable doing this with me, and the one person I know that is now lives over 2,000 miles away. :(

I need a drink...

[Kerstin]

I get so disgusted with myself sometimes due to my complete fear of going out. I've never been accused of cowardice in my 26 years of life, but when I'm dressed at home and someone even knocks at the door, I go and run and hide in my room.

I'm sort of similiar to this. I'm expecting several deliveries this week and feel like I daren't dress up just because of what the delivery person might think. But then I suppose wider acceptance won't occur unless more CDers out themselves. With more exposure will come more acceptance.

[Vanessa Storrs]

I have become weary of the frequent threads bemoaning our lack of acceptance. I go out occasionally and have had absolutely no problem with being accepted. I am sure that there are some that do not care for how I dress just as I am sure that there are many more who are amused by my appearence. People who do not approve have kept their opinions to themselves and I have received many compliments for going out. Our biggest problem with acceptance is not with others accepting us but with us accepting ourselves.

[AllisonK]

It is no longer an issue of being accepted by the public for me. I have only worn jeans or a discreet women's top in public and that is all I have cared to wear out. Being out is somewhat new to me however due to me hiding the true me for so long. Since I have let my wife know I have felt as though a weight has been lifted giving me a lot more confidence. I work with a mix of men and women in a pretty discriminating town. None of them know for sure that I CD but I know a couple of the women suspect something since I have long nails and I always comment on how I like something they are wearing. We gab about girly things and they even call me princess. I kind of like that. The men I work with just think they are goofing off with me so they don't even realize why they say it. I figure that getting comfortable with the way I look on the outside will come when I'm comfortable with me on the inside. I feel that most women think this. Telling the truth to yourself is hard and I think that is why so many Taboo's exist in the first place. People don't want to admit their on faults so they project their issues onto others. Just my opinion though.

[kimdl93]

It really doesn't matter if you consider yourself transgendered or just a person who likes to dress occassionally as a girl. The presentation and the response is likely to be the same. People prejudices aren't that specific.

But I'd suggest that the "general public" doesn't exist as a monolith. As many of us can attest, we can and do go out in public without incident and often have very positive and encouraging encounters with the public. Sure, there's a significant minority of disapproving individuals, but even among them, most keep their opinions to themselves and go on with their lives. They're entitled to theor opinions so long as they don't infringe on the rights of others.

[jillleanne]

Pinky your statement is so true but it is missing some other words. It reads, " I just wish people could be more openminded ".

It should read, " I just wish people could be more openminded but I understand and accept as long as we fear society, our families, and ourselves, and remain in the closet, little will change. It is our job to educate society to accept us and how can we do that if we cannot accept ourselves?".

Being gender enhanced is no different than anything else in life. We'll just let someone else do the diry work.

[suzy1]

Most of the replies to this thread have a strong slant towards wanting to ‘go out’
One comment said ‘the closet is not our friend’ well it’s my friend!

I think I can stick my neck out here and say that there are a lot of members here like me that have no need whatsoever to ‘go out’

And if anyone accuses me of being a coward I will get really miffed.


SUZY

[EllieOPKS]

I find it amusing to read this thread and the responses. Is no one on here offended that a television show would have the nerve to use the term TABOO for cross dressers? Who the hell are they to endorse something as TABOO without showing one shred of evidence that cross dressing has had a negative affect on any person, animal or plant on this planet?

There should be an email campaign against this. Not to the idiot network but to the advertisers by threatening to not use their products. As things stand in today's society viewing Cd as TABOO, the closet really is your friend.

[NathalieX66]

I find it amusing to read this thread and the responses. Is no one on here offended that a television show would have the nerve to use the term TABOO for cross dressers? Who the hell are they to endorse something as TABOO without showing one shred of evidence that cross dressing has had a negative affect on any person, animal or plant on this planet?
.

As my old banner at one time used to say:
"Smoking kills 5.4 million people worldwide, crossdressing kills zero".

how come nobody ever considered smoking cigarettes taboo? ....and I was a pack-a-day addict at one time.

[EllieOPKS]

LOL! I like your old banner Natalie

[Karren H]

I'm still stuck on "too" taboo? There's levels? Always thought it was or it wasn't.... Not severely taboo or vaguely mild taboo... Its only taboo if you let it be, imho...

Anyone else first think of the perfume Taboo (Tabu) like I did? Had a girlfriend who wore that. Her clothes always smelled like it too... Even when I "borrowed" them! Lol.

Disclaimer: use of the term "Borrowing" does not construe in any manner... Forth with... that Karren condones taking, wearing or using fgor any purpose, someone else's clothes... Not owned by the wearer... Without written permission!!

[Kerstin]

Most of the replies to this thread have a strong slant towards wanting to ‘go out’
One comment said ‘the closet is not our friend’ well it’s my friend!

I think I can stick my neck out here and say that there are a lot of members here like me that have no need whatsoever to ‘go out’

And if anyone accuses me of being a coward I will get really miffed.


SUZY

I don't think that's cowardly at all! For many it's a private thing, something for their eyes only and there's nothing wrong with that. Personally I do have a desire to be seen out but right now I'm just learning how to dress properly, so it's just between me and the mirror.

[Marleena]

Pinky there a lot of girls here opening the doors and educating the public on CDing. They are an inspiration for the rest of us. You know.. changing the world one person at a time.:)

[Lorileah]

Most of the replies to this thread have a strong slant towards wanting to ‘go out’
One comment said ‘the closet is not our friend’ well it’s my friend! That would be me Suzy. You may think it is your friend but friends help friends. Closets are for clothes. Has that closet done anything to make you feel good about yourself. Has it built up your self esteem or is it keeping it down?


I think I can stick my neck out here and say that there are a lot of members here like me that have no need whatsoever to ‘go out’ Then don't go out. But don't bemoan the falsehood that you will be discriminated against. The only way to bring truth to the front is to bring it into the light. I really have nothing against those who wish to stay in the closet, but I do not respect those who complain about not being accepted while they are behind that door. Those who come on here and say "I wish...." but don't try and make it come true. If we want to accepted in the world we have to be the ones who are on the front lines. No one else is going to stand up for us.

On this side of the pond, if we had stayed in the closet we would probably be speaking English still ;) But truthfully, if we want change we have to be willing to standup (and out) for it.

[moondog]

There is a huge spectrum of where people are and what they want to do with their crossdressing. I have to accept that although I want to go out as a female and fully blend as such, there are many people who are content to keep their dressing private and enjoy themselves without ever having the need or desire to go out in public. I see nothing wrong with either.

[Vickie_CDTV]

I think the title of the Taboo show is intended to mean "Here are some things that would be considered taboo in western society", not "Here are some things we think should be taboo and here's why".

[suzy1]

That would be me Suzy. You may think it is your friend but friends help friends. Closets are for clothes. Has that closet done anything to make you feel good about yourself. Has it built up your self esteem or is it keeping it down?

Then don't go out. But don't bemoan the falsehood that you will be discriminated against. The only way to bring truth to the front is to bring it into the light. I really have nothing against those who wish to stay in the closet, but I do not respect those who complain about not being accepted while they are behind that door. Those who come on here and say "I wish...." but don't try and make it come true. If we want to accepted in the world we have to be the ones who are on the front lines. No one else is going to stand up for us.

On this side of the pond, if we had stayed in the closet we would probably be speaking English still ;) But truthfully, if we want change we have to be willing to standup (and out) for it.



When have you ever heard me complain about not being accepted?
How do you know how I feel about myself?
My self esteem is fine thank you!
When have I ever said ‘I wish’?

You change the world if you want to, I don’t! Does that make me a lesser person Lorileah?

I await your reply.


SUZY

[Kelli Ca]

Amen to that what a world it would be if we could dress and make ourselves up as we wish

[danielletorresani]

To me crossdressing being considered taboo is part of what makes it such a turn on...

[HollyH20]

I never thought of it as taboo, just necessary

[Lorileah]

When have you ever heard me complain about not being accepted?
How do you know how I feel about myself?
My self esteem is fine thank you!
When have I ever said ‘I wish’?

You change the world if you want to, I don’t! Does that make me a lesser person Lorileah?

I await your reply.


SUZY

No Suzy, I don't recall you ever complaining about not being accepted but that is what the OP was talking about


So I have been watching these shows for the past several months on transgender people. Its great that they are getting the recognition that they deserve, but where does that leave us, who like being a guy/girl that just wants to present as the opposite sex once and a while? We have a long way to go in being accepted in the mainstream. To me this is a very big problem but I am awear that it is a hard thing for the general public to accept. I just wish people could be more open minded! (emphasis mine)

The point of the thread was being accepted in the mainstream. I replied that hiding in the closet won't get that done. That in order to be accepted "we" have to be out and seen. No one is going to knock on your door and say "Hi! It is so cool you are transgendered. Would you like to be my friend?"

You can remain in the closet. There are several outcomes, the most likely being that nothing will change. It does not make you a lesser person. BUT consider other outcomes. It was not so long ago that people who were "different" were treated differently. They could not go some places, they had to be marked as being different so that others could treat them differently. Some of them stayed hidden thinking that if they just went along with the flow, everything would be OK. Until the night someone knocked on that closet door. Even those who didn't make a fuss were guilty. My hope is that the outcome will be better. That you can, if you wish, walk down the street being who you are. And since I am using history as an example here, the only way that will happen is if someone (me and the others here who keep saying "go out") make enough waves that things do change.

If you are happy Suzy, stay happy. If you are like the OP and wonder why people are closed minded, then you have to educate. To do that you have to be out of that closet. Just because you own a Ferrari doesn't mean you have to take it out of the garage. It is still nice to sit in it and dream. Not everyone is born to change the world, some just benefit from those that do.

I will refer to a quote that is attributed to Robert Kennedy, but is really George Bernard Shaw
There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

We will disagree, but that is why we have these boards. Otherwise it would be sort like living in a bland world.:hugs:

[Veronica27]

This has been a great discussion, and there are some very good replies. I particularly like Danielle's comment that "being considered taboo is part of what makes it such a turn on" For many of us I think that there is more truth to this than we would like to admit.

Human beings are a social animal, meaning we basically rely on others for survival, and seek membership as a part of the "group". We retain a closeness to relatives, whether we like them or not, unlike most animal species who raise their young and then forget about them. We establish friendships and work hard at maintaining them. And we strive to get along with neighbours and co-workers and most people we meet unless they seriously do wrong to us. These characteristics are especially true when we are young, but still form a large part of our existence when we reach the cantakerousness of old age.

Our existence as social beings which ensures our survival and overall happiness is driven by the need for the respect and admiration of other members of society. We want to be liked. When we crossdress, and go out in society, we are seldom going to encounter any real difficulties, in the sense of being denied access to places, or being verbally rebuked and so on. If we show common sense in where we go, how we dress and who we are with, we are not in any greater physical danger than anyone else. Part of the reason why we do not encounter any such problems is that almost everybody else is just like us. They want to be respected, admired and liked. Showing disrepect for the foibles or eccentricities of others does not garner much of that respect. So we are treated nicely for the most part, ignored in crowds and generally "accepted".

However, we have absolutely no idea what is actually going on in the mind of those people who accept us. If we happen to pass a vagrant on the street, or encounter verbal vulgarity, or meet someone whose religious, political or social convictions are vastly different than ours, we tend to ignore, humour or take whatever action we deem necessary to protect the everyday niceties of life, not create a scene or get into an argument. We want to be liked. But we form an opinion of that person, which in all likelihood we will keep to ourself, or discuss only with those close to us.

Part of the motivation for crossdressers remaining closeted is that we have no idea what others are actually thinking, despite what they may say or do. As long as the "taboo" remains we have no control over people's thoughts, and thus no idea how crossdressing is affecting the level of respect we actually have. Much is written about the first step being acceptance of ourselves and that is very true. With that we develop self-confidence. However, we must also deal with the reality of our own ignorance as to the respect and admiration of others toward us. Are we capable of separating ourselves a little bit from the natural instincts that make us social animals? Remaining closeted is not necessarily fear, or cowardice, but might be something much deeper in the basic psychology of humanity. To change this, the taboo would have to be eliminated, but then what would that do to Danielle's turn on?

Veronica

[kimdl93]

I'd have to agree strongly with Lori. While I fully support and accept those of us who choose to CD within the safe confines of their home, I would construe OP to be focused on CDing as a "taboo" by some portion of the public.

I go out in public and enjoy interacting with people, making friends and experiencing life en femme because its enjoyable. If I were constantly subject to anything adverse, ranging from snickering teenagers to physical threats, I wouldn't be enjoying the expereince. So, basically, in the short six months that I've been increasingly out, I have yet to encounter this taboo. So maybe our fears have been overblown. The majority of opinions expressed to me have been more along the vein of "We think its great. Life is short. Be yourself".

[Veronica27]

In my prior post, I presented my thoughts as to why some of us remain closeted, when there appears to be a relatively high level of acceptance of those who are out and about. This theory hinges on the assumption that crossdressing is a taboo. That leaves the question as to why this is so. First of all, I have to agree with Pinky that crossdressing is looked upon as being more taboo than TG or TS. I think the reason for this is that people can see a logical reason for being TS and even TG, even if they do not fully understand the whys and wherefores that lead to that reason. How could a non TS individual understand what takes place in the mind of a TS. What they can accept is that this is a condition that exists and will always be there, just like being left-handed to use the old cliche.

But why would a male individual, who suffers no gender confusion, still want to wear female clothing from time to time? This makes no sense to those who do not share this predilection, given the culture in which they have been raised. Despite the gains of the women's rights and femininst movements, as a society we still place a premium on masculinity over femininity in many ways. Any display of femininity in a man, or an interest in feminine things such as clothing is seen as emasculating, which has a lot of negativity in its meaning. There is no equivalent, but opposite word in the English language. Any display of masculinity, or interest in male pursuits by a woman is seen as enobling. It does not diminish her womanhood, but enhances it. Boys are brought up to "be a man", and always maintain their manhood. Girls simply become women, and while there is much more to be learned about being a woman, than being a man, a woman is still a woman regardless of how accomplished she has become. But a man can be thought of as "less than a man" if he does not live up to all the expectations and requirements of membership in that fraternity.

As a result of all of this, crossdressing is then viewed as being emasculating to the man who participates, without possessing a definable gender confusion reason for doing so. He is seen as voluntarily belittling himself, which goes against every value that we have been taught to hold dear.

Crossdressing will remain a taboo as long as our culture maintains the ideal that being male holds a supremacy over being female. We have come a long way toward improving the rights and so on of women, even to the point of giving them supremacy over men in certain things (which becomes too much of a political argument to detail here.) However, despite these gains, society still puts a premium on masculinity over femininity, and the taboo persists. I don't have any answers to this, other than education, but where and by whom remains a problem.

Veronica

[kimdl93]

..... First of all, I have to agree with Pinky that crossdressing is looked upon as being more taboo than TG or TS. I think the reason for this is that people can see a logical reason for being TS and even TG, even if they do not fully understand the whys and wherefores that lead to that reason. .......But why would a male individual, who suffers no gender confusion, still want to wear female clothing from time to time? Veronica

The problem I have with this line of reasoning is that I don't know that the person who encounters a CDr can differentiate a person who is "just" CDing from individuals who might be TG or TS. How would the observer know?

[Pinky188]

The problem I have with this line of reasoning is that I don't know that the person who encounters a CDr can differentiate a person who is "just" CDing from individuals who might be TG or TS. How would the observer know?

That is a very interesting point!

[Marleena]

The TS ladies need to live their lives out in the public. It is their life and they don't have a choice like a CDer does. That said, many of the CD/TG ladies here are representing all of the CD/TG/TS ladies very well.:)

[NathalieX66]

Marleena,
Interesting point. I see those who are TS are the vanguard for all of us. .....The Rosa Parks.
It's interesting to hear those who are closeted, but wish to get out somehow without fear of rejection, or alienation, and yet unlike the civil rights movement of the 1960's, few have experienced the discrimination, rejection, and even violence first hand.
Being behind a computer for a short hour in the evening is a very cozy comfy place to let yourself out, but it's not like being TG and standing at a bus stop waiting for your bus in a rough neighborhood.

When I was at Keystone Conference last year, one of the speakers was TG activist Mara Keisling, who has appeared on many news channels, including CNN with Anderson Cooper. She mentioned thats suicide attempts amongst TG folk is over 40%.

Crossdressers in public have it easy. Many of us have no intention of letting our employer know. We can go out in public, and paint the town. We put it away after all is said and done. Then it's time to paint the house, and do our yard work, and sometimes squabble with our SO's about how much time we get out . TG's are 24/7/365.

[Marleena]

Nathalie you are one of the CD/TG ladies I was referring to. TG is I guess encompassing all of us non GG girls that are not TS. I did edit my post because a lot of CD's are out there along with TG raising awareness and in contact with the public.:)

In other words you girls are helping all of us.:)

[NathalieX66]

Thanks, Marleena!
Such steps didn't come easy. It took me a long time get over my own fears, but once I found likewise company, it got easier each time. I always try to improve my game.

I can remember my first time out on my own about two years ago , I drove to the SoHo section of New York City, thinking that this would be a tolerant location, while dressed in a sweater dress & boots. I stepped out of my car, walked around two blocks , then back in to my car thinking that people were staring at me. I was terrified, but for no reason. Nobody gave a 'at's rass'!
Everyone's confidence level is different, and everyone's goals are different, everyone's needs are different. For me, I'm a the point where I have to go out once in a while and be me.
Like the documentary on African Honey Badger: "Honey Badger Don't Care".

[jillleanne]

Most of the replies to this thread have a strong slant towards wanting to ‘go out’
One comment said ‘the closet is not our friend’ well it’s my friend!

I think I can stick my neck out here and say that there are a lot of members here like me that have no need whatsoever to ‘go out’

And if anyone accuses me of being a coward I will get really miffed.


SUZY

Hey girl, I think the thread is talking about someone gender enhanced being able to go out in public and be accepted by everyone and anyone without question, not someone that is quite content and happy to express their gender self in the confines of their home. No need to get mifffed.

Another way to look at her post would be, " If no one gender enhanced ever went out in public there would not be any issues regarding how the public response would be because there would be no such thing as crossdressing or anything else for that matter, as far the the rest of the population is concerned. How would anyone know it even exists if no one ever went out? Snow gone yet?

[Delila]

So I have been watching these shows for the past several months on transgender people. Its great that they are getting the recognition that they deserve, but where does that leave us, who like being a guy/girl that just wants to present as the opposite sex once and a while? We have a long way to go in being accepted in the mainstream. To me this is a very big problem but I am awear that it is a hard thing for the general public to accept. I just wish people could be more open minded! Excuse my misspellings!

Unfortunately crossdressers do not fall within any of the LGBT standards. We are the outcasts of outcasts it will be a long time before we are truly accepted if ever. It's a shame that with the current attitude towards gays and even transgendered people that crossdressers are still the outcast. I have heard TGers condemn crossdressers along with everyone else. It's like they think where we are is just on step on the path to being TG I think people have a hard time understanding that maybe ther is a middle ground for those of us that don't want to make the transition but still want to feel like women. Hopefully this will change and all people will have the same rights no matter any gender, sexual or whatever orientation. I am doubtful though that this will happen in any of our lifetimes.

[Jenniferathome]

Do keep in mind the key words you used "part time.". All the shows you have seen are about people in transition, right? Full time. Big difference, I think. Perception is that those in transition are becoming who they should be. We crossdressers just have a hobby.

Water off a duck's back. Just enjoy it

[JessicaM1985]

Hmm. As whiney as my last post was, I decided to test the waters a tiny bit today to gauge reactions from strangers and went drab, but with purple nailpolish to class today. I know, not exactly trend-setting, but I gave it a shot. Not a single comment or look. It makes me wonder if a lot of the fear we have is slightly exaggerated. By which I mean that we think that every person is waiting to scream "THERE'S A GUY IN GIRL'S CLOTHES!", when in truth maybe once in a while somebody might say something, but most just keep their thoughts to,themselves.
Of course, as they say, "One test is not enough to make a result." So as such, I may add some makeup to the equation over time to see how it goes.

And for clarification:
Suzy, in no way would I ever say that you are a coward. If you are content,with,staying,at home to dress and keep that part of you life private I respect that and you for it. I reserve that name for myself alone because only I can judge myself, and I have allowed fear to get the better of me. It is atypical of my character and dislike that I am exhibiting that kind of behavior. In my case, I'm further down the trans scale than some, so not expressing some femiminity is proving to be nerve-wracking for me due to being uncomfortable in my own skin, but at the same time, fear of rejection and being attacked in public is causing that same stress. It's the taboo factor that the OP is talking about that makes me soend more time in guy mode than I,would like. My judgement on myself is due to me not being true to myself because I fear rejection that much, when there are plenty of brave women on here that do it every day and have few problems.

[Delila]

Hmm. As whiney as my last post was, I decided to test the waters a tiny bit today to gauge reactions from strangers and went drab, but with purple nailpolish to class today. I know, not exactly trend-setting, but I gave it a shot. Not a single comment or look. It makes me wonder if a lot of the fear we have is slightly exaggerated. By which I mean that we think that every person is waiting to scream "THERE'S A GUY IN GIRL'S CLOTHES!", when in truth maybe once in a while somebody might say something, but most just keep their thoughts to,themselves.
Of course, as they say, "One test is not enough to make a result." So as such, I may add some makeup to the equation over time to see how it goes.

And for clarification:
Suzy, in no way would I ever say that you are a coward. If you are content,with,staying,at home to dress and keep that part of you life private I respect that and you for it. I reserve that name for myself alone because only I can judge myself, and I have allowed fear to get the better of me. It is atypical of my character and dislike that I am exhibiting that k


I wore nail polish for most of my 20s I rarely had anyone comment. I would think more obvious items such as dresses or skirts would have drawn some sort of reaction. I wish it was otherwise but the reality is that most of us are made within minutes. Last year dressed as lady gaga for halloween I had many people ask just to check that I was really a guy. I think they knew it was more to rub it in that they saw through me.

[JessicaM1985]

I know. I don't own any girls clothing (gimme a couple of weeks and this will change) so I'm testing the waters with what I have and conquering my fears one baby step at a time.

[Marleena]

Okay now I'm confused! I thought any MTF Cd girl is under the TG umbrella. Some from the TS community want them out of the category? Is this not correct?

My point was that many CD girls are a help to the TG community by getting out there in public, setting a good example and educating the public.

There is nothing wrong with a CDer staying in the closet either it is a personal choice IMHO.

[Ally 2112]

i think when society gets out of it's compfort zone it is considered taboo .The thing is all of these so called normal people have skeletons in their closets i only have dresses and skirts and i hurt no one by what i do !.(i keep it private unlees im shopping lol ) ,But the point is everone has something to hide look at all the politicians J edger hoover crossdresser ? i have seen documentories on him and it is always mentioned .Also herman goering of the nazi regime was rumered to be a crossdresser !.Also to the tg girls out there i applaud you that has to be a scary road ! to travel i would be so afraid just saying

[Veronica27]

The problem I have with this line of reasoning is that I don't know that the person who encounters a CDr can differentiate a person who is "just" CDing from individuals who might be TG or TS. How would the observer know?

Your point is well taken. On a case by case basis, there would be no way for an individual to know if they have encountered a CD or a TG, unless something was said along those lines. I was referring more to generalities, in the sense that people can more readily accept the gender issues of transgenderism, than the desire to crossdress for other non-gender reasons. I apologize for being a little unclear in my post. If a TG disclosed his dressing to an outsider along with his explanations, they would accept him more readily than if a crossdresser disclosed his desire to dress in female clothing for sensual, adventurous or whatever other reasons he may have. Given the nature of our culture and upbringing, wearing non-gender specific clothing makes no sense, and suggests perverse desires to those who have no experience in this area.

In the case of a person encountering an obvious male in female clothing, I think the first thought that would come to their mind would be TG, and not CD. They would think of CDing as being more behind closed doors. While it does not matter whether strangers think of us as TG or CD, it can make a difference what our friends, relatives and neighbours think, which goes back to my first post about our need for respect and our desire to be liked. We do not know what is actually in their mind about us. CDing is a cultural "taboo", while TG is seen as a response to a condition.

Veronica


Marleena,
It's interesting to hear those who are closeted, but wish to get out somehow without fear of rejection, or alienation, and yet unlike the civil rights movement of the 1960's, few have experienced the discrimination, rejection, and even violence first hand.

There is a world of difference between the civil rights movement and what we as a community are experiencing. During the 1960's, blacks were not "closeted", but were outright discriminated against in many aspects of everyday life. They were highly visible, but only in the "correct" places. Their plight was not one of having to tell the world "what" they were, but one of proving that discrimination was a violation of human rights.

We, on the other hand, are only visible if we allow ourselves to be so. You are correct in that we do not experience the discrimination, rejection or violence of the civil rights movement of the 60's. However, we are dealing with a cultural concept that considers our predilections to be a taboo, and while we are relatively safe around strangers, we have no way of knowing how our friends, relatives, neighbours and employers really feel about this issue, despite what they might say. Our jobs, the closeness of our loved ones, our marriages and so on may all be at risk if we are not careful. The discrimination we face is much different from that of the 60's. It involves telling the world "what" we are, and then facing any resultant mental anguish.



Crossdressers in public have it easy. Many of us have no intention of letting our employer know. We can go out in public, and paint the town. We put it away after all is said and done. Then it's time to paint the house, and do our yard work, and sometimes squabble with our SO's about how much time we get out . TG's are 24/7/365.

Not all TG's are 24/7/365. CD's may have no intention of letting their employer know, but it is possible that he or she may find out. I agree that CD's, and TG's have it easy in public, but only among "outsiders", being those who are not friends, relatives, neighbours, co-workers, employers, members of our church or club, or anyone else who knows both us and any of the above.

Veronica

[STACY B]

ILL tell ya my personal view is CROSSDRESSING is not an issue as long as your pretty !!!! An thats a FACT ,,, The only time there is trouble is not when you have been read ,,,, Thats fine as long as your pretty ,, But if you are not or your big or tall or anything out of the norm wooooooooooooooo wwww thats where the trouble starts , If you look good an you act rite there is some kind of unwriten pass card that you get ,, But if you dont fit into that mold then it becomes MORE of an issue. Why is it that if you dress like a girl you are labled a punk or fag ,, an lots or most people take dressen as a sign of weakness an guys think that they can just automaticly run all over you an treat an say what ever they dam well please an your suposed to just lay there an take it . Dont they realize that its realy none of there bizzness what you wear an how you act.

[Veronica27]

Okay now I'm confused! I thought any MTF Cd girl is under the TG umbrella. Some from the TS community want them out of the category? Is this not correct?

My point was that many CD girls are a help to the TG community by getting out there in public, setting a good example and educating the public.

There is nothing wrong with a CDer staying in the closet either it is a personal choice IMHO.

There have been a lot of posts about TG, and the concept of it being an umbrella term. The community, as well as members of this forum, are of course divided on the issue. My take is that the umbrella concept does a disservice to crossdressers, as it tends to paint everyone the same colour, and loses sight of what differentiates us. Using the name applied to one particular branch of a total population as a general term, tends to make the qualities applicable to that branch appear to apply to everyone. Those who favour the umbrella concept, often do so for political reasons, in that it broadens the numbers, and makes the quest for rights legislation and overall acceptance more palatable. It goes along with associating the "T" with "LGB", which bear no similarities.

You are partly correct, in that many of the TS community want CD out of TG, but many also do not want to be described as TG themselves. A FtM TS who has completed SRS, usually wants to be considered a woman, and not a TG or even a TS.

Veronica

[Marleena]

You are partly correct, in that many of the TS community want CD out of TG, but many also do not want to be described as TG themselves. A FtM TS who has completed SRS, usually wants to be considered a woman, and not a TG or even a TS.

Veronica

Thanks Veronica, the TG umbrella is necessary for all MTF girls in my opinion. Like I said earlier many of the CD/TG girls are helping raise awareness in a positive manner for the TS ladies that need to be out there 24/7. Any GM that wears a dress in public will be taking a chance and should be afforded the same protections. I also understand the FTM situation.

[Veronica27]

But if you are not or your big or tall or anything out of the norm wooooooooooooooo wwww thats where the trouble starts , .

At 6' 4", I have to take my WOW's any way I can get them, even if it means trouble. Very perceptive post.

Veronica