Isn't it Amazing....

[Traci Elizabeth]

How most of the gals in the CD section wear leather or dresses/skirts up to their butt and super high heels or tall boots?

And over here we try to blend in with women our own age mostly in a conservative manner.

Big difference Huh?

JUST SAYING

[Bree-asaurus]

How most of the gals in the CD section wear leather or dresses/skirts up to their butt and super high heels or tall boots?

And over here we try to blend in with women our own age mostly in a conservative manner.

Big difference Huh?

JUST SAYING

It's because we're wearing the cloths for entirely different reasons.

[Anna Lorree]

Not all of us who are categorized as CD are involved in fetish dressing. I own no leather, no silk or satin, and very little lace. I hate heels taller than 3" (they hurt my feet and I'm already 6'1" anyway...), I don't even have any boots, and every skirt or dress I have goes down to just above my knee. Boring, huh? I try to dress like all of the women I know who are in their late 30's and early 40's because that's how old I am. And no, I don't have folders and folders of glamor shots and other pictures of me dressed, I think I have about half a dozen pictures, total. My avatar pic is very representative of how I dress, I go for what is "soccer mom" in my area. Basically, I would know I was dressing correctly if I were able to pass at the mall or around a downtown area.

Anna

[arbon]

I would like to dress sexy, short skirts and heels and boots, it can be fun, but looked ridiculous when I have tried to.... I'm about 20 years to late.

[Bree-asaurus]

Not all of us who are categorized as CD are involved in fetish dressing.

I think Traci knows that. She said "most" not "all."

I've noticed things like this too. Of course not everyone crossdresses for the same reason, but having started my membership in that forum and grown away from it, there is a very definite trend over there.

But Traci, I wonder why you're posting this. Just by skimming the threads in the CD forums, pretty much anyone can notice this. I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a war of CDs vs TSs here...

[Longing2be-Trisha]

Like Bree says it is a totally different reason. I dress in dresses and skirts that come just above knee or down to the ankle. I may not like to wear pants but that for my own reasons. I like to look nice but a butt high micro mini or a mini not my style. I would like a pair of thigh high boots or even knee high boots.

Hugs

[Anna Lorree]

I think Traci knows that. She said "most" not "all."

I've noticed things like this too. Of course not everyone crossdresses for the same reason, but having started my membership in that forum and grown away from it, there is a very definite trend over there.

But Traci, I wonder why you're posting this. Just by skimming the threads in the CD forums, pretty much anyone can notice this. I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a war of CDs vs TSs here...

Personally, I have no intention of starting anything that is "us vs. them". I am still very much in the realm of trying to figure out who/what I am and what my "label" is. As such, I am always looking at and for trends amongst the membership on this site. I tend to be an abrupt communicator sometimes, and if I made anybody feel the need to be defensive, then I am sorry. That was not my intent.

Anna

[Amanda22]

Traci,

Interesting observation. I just started hanging out here in the TS forum after someone in the MtF CD forum said I'd be better off here. I like it here very much. I think your point is valid, although of course there are exceptions likely here and there.

[kimdl93]

I would have to exclude myself from "most" since I dress to blend in, rather than stand out. Plus, I guess I favor more of a casual or business casual style. My motivation - I live nearly 24/7 as a woman, so I guess I'm more towards the TS end of the spectrum, like Mandy above.

Still, while the term "most" may not be entirely accurate, it is fair to say that there are quite a few CDs who enjoy short skirts and stilletos, whatever their motivations.

[Kathy Smith]

I'm not happy if I look in a mirror and the image screams out "male" or "man in a dress" at me! It feels wrong - it's not me. I also can't stand to wear the "tarty" outfits, I'm only happy if I feel as if I can blend in successfully. A jumper and skirt just below the knee and a pair of "flatties" are fine with me. :-)

[Julia_in_Pa]

Traci,

They are doing exactly what the name implies, they are cross dressing.
Cross dressing implies that you are dressing opposite of your true gender.

We are dressing as our true gender.



Julia

[Traci Elizabeth]

Traci,

They are doing exactly what the name implies, they are cross dressing.
Cross dressing implies that you are dressing opposite of your true gender.

We are dressing as our true gender.



Julia



Yes, that is true but I still think not all but most CD's dress more provocative which leads me to believe it is more sexual in nature than trying to blend in. In my mind, I would think that if one is only part-time or occasionally and they want to go out in public would they also not want to blend in as we do?

[Traci Elizabeth]

I think Traci knows that. She said "most" not "all."

I've noticed things like this too. Of course not everyone crossdresses for the same reason, but having started my membership in that forum and grown away from it, there is a very definite trend over there.

But Traci, I wonder why you're posting this. Just by skimming the threads in the CD forums, pretty much anyone can notice this. I'm hoping this doesn't turn into a war of CDs vs TSs here...



The last thing I want to do is to start a war. My impressions were just an observation that I find interesting that there does exist a difference most of the time and wonder why. Personally, I would think "any" woman who goes out in public would still want to blend in and not draw the wrong kinds of looks or attention regardless of their reason for being in female clothes.

[Bree-asaurus]

Yes, that is true but I still think not all but most CD's dress more provocative which leads me to believe it is more sexual in nature than trying to blend in. In my mind, I would think that if one is only part-time or occasionally and they want to go out in public would they also not want to blend in as we do?

Well, personally, I would like to dress a little sexier than I do... but still within the norms of girls my age. It would also be fun to ***** it up at a club every once and a while... I'm just very critical of my body and usually the cuter outfits and dresses require heels (IMO) which I'm still afraid to wear.


The last thing I want to do is to start a war. My impressions were just an observation that I find interesting that there does exist a difference most of the time and wonder why. Personally, I would think "any" woman who goes out in public would still want to blend in and not draw the wrong kinds of looks or attention regardless of their reason for being in female clothes.

Well I think the case with some crossdressers is there is a thrill associated with it, or it is part of their fantasy or fetish or something.

But another reason for some of them may be because they are men, or some kind of trans and haven't quite learned how to present and behave in public.

And I know you don't want to start a war... I've just seen too many topics like this get out of hand because people can't be respectful with their opinions. Especially with the rash of closed threads lately.

[LeaP]

My impressions were just an observation that I find interesting that there does exist a difference most of the time and wonder why. Personally, I would think "any" woman who goes out in public would still want to blend in and not draw the wrong kinds of looks or attention regardless of their reason for being in female clothes.

It IS interesting and I do see a difference also. There are differences and gradations and nuances in motivations among crossdressers too, of course. The theme that touches on this most often in the CD section is that of dressing in age appropriate fashion. The responses are usually to the effect that this is individual preference - and shouldn't that be respected here, of all places? Obviously this is a simplification, but it raises a key motivational difference between the groups, and that is preference itself. Crossdressing can be reduced at some level to just preference. While a TS, like anyone else, has clothing preferences, there are implications for the TS that don't apply to the crosssdresser. At (typical) worst, the crossdresser invites ridicule - and actually nothing at all if they are closeted. The TS invites consequences that would threaten their livelihoods and community standing.

Another difference would be the ability to view clothing in women's terms. The TS does exactly that, though I suspect in my heart of hearts that many non-TSs fundamentally disbelieve in the reality of TS identity. The crossdresser, however, most certainly does not have that perspective. Dressing in imitation of a male vision of womanhood, maybe even an idealized or fantasized version, is very different than dressing for everyday, normal presentation. The FtM crossdressing equivalent might be presenting as a lumberjack or some other stereotype. Both (TS and CD, that is) have their own validity as gender expression variations, but they are not rooted in the same motivations, nor do they (usually) end with similar results, Kim and others notwithstanding.

Lea

[Kelsy]

I love womens clothes but I can feel quite female in just jeans and a cami or tank a pair of flats. I seldon wear dresses, I own two. Dressing doesn't drive me. Dressing is just the natural thing to do. No one wants to see my butt cheeks at 56yrs I tend toward the J Jill look - hot or not!

[Kathy Smith]

Well, personally, I would like to dress a little sexier than I do... but still within the norms of girls my age. It would also be fun to ***** it up at a club every once and a while... I'm just very critical of my body and usually the cuter outfits and dresses require heels (IMO) which I'm still afraid to wear.


LOL! Me too - but my chances of ever looking "a little sexier than I do" are probably about as good as my chances of climbing Blackpool tower. Blindfolded. I've had to accept that at 59 I'm not going to look "cute" any more, even with much improved makeup skills! However, my chances of blending in with the general public are getting better - providing I _never_ attempt to ***** it up at a club! :-)

[kimdl93]

Well, personally, I would like to dress a little sexier than I do... but still within the norms of girls my age. It would also be fun to ***** it up at a club every once and a while... I'm just very critical of my body and usually the cuter outfits and dresses require heels (IMO) which I'm still afraid to wear.
.

Well, Bree you're so pretty it doesn't really matter what you wear, but I understand the body issues. For those of us of, ahem, a certain age, it becomes even a bigger issue. I pushed the envelope just a bit a couple of weeks ago, wearing a knee length, black knet wrap dress to the Center for the Performing Arts. The play was just OK, but it was about the only venue where I thought my outfit would fit in.

But back to the main point of the OP, I would concur that different CDs dress for different reasons and the motivations show in their choices. I don't think this observation should be terribly controversial, really. And I agree with Julia's point that those of us on the TS end of the spectrum are dressing to present as women, so we naturally make different choices than someone dressing for sexual gratification. (Not that there's anything wrong with that!)

[Marleena]

How most of the gals in the CD section wear leather or dresses/skirts up to their butt and super high heels or tall boots?

And over here we try to blend in with women our own age mostly in a conservative manner.

Big difference Huh?

JUST SAYING

Traci you need to keep in mind that many of the CD girls in video gallery do not venture out in the outfits they pose in. I have a short skirt one in there myself! Look at my profile pic to see what I wear out. Do you have a problem with it?

[Bree-asaurus]

Traci you need to keep in mind that many of the CD girls in video gallery do not venture out in the outfits they pose in. I have a short skirt one in there myself! Look at my profile pic to see what I wear out. Do you have a problem with it?

I don't think she has a problem with it at all. She's just talking about the differences she notices. Please be careful not to assume someone is attacking you or talking bad about you when it's merely just observational... this is how threads start to get out of control.

[Aprilrain]

OMG who cares! ...............

[Marleena]

The point is the picture gallery is mostly for fun.. You cannot get an accurate idea from it.

[Kathryn Martin]

Within the age appropriate clothing that I wear I like to be elegant, chic and yes sexy. As a result I am almost always better dressed than many of born female contemporaries. Many of the women I work with have expressed the wish to raid my closet. I find quite a number of women born in a male body tend to dress somewhat drab to fly under the radar. Being 6'4" I stand out anyway so I want to be beyond criticism regarding my clothes. I am very much into fashion, always have been, love shopping, always have, and are often asked to accompany my friends to buy clothes to advise them.

Often CD dressers are interested to dress their fantasy or their imagination, while some CD and almost all TS dress for reality.

[Anne Elizabeth]

My wife asked me this at one time also. My reply was that in the quest to feel like the woman I feel I should have been drives me to dress in ways that help me feel like the woman I should be. Sometimes I think there is a law of diminishing returns in that a certain article of clothing helps me feel right for awhile but eventually I want more or really need more to feel right and in alignment with my true self. I don't dress in any of the provocative clothes the original poster asked about but I think that the cd many times goes overboard to and it actually becomes sexual to them. Where as I want to just plainly want to be and be seen as a woman, and 99 percent of the women I see in my daily life would never dress like that except for there SO on occasion.

I like Julie's remark "They are doing exactly what the name implies, they are cross dressing.
Cross dressing implies that you are dressing opposite of your true gender.

We are dressing as our true gender."

And to me that speaks a world of wisdom and truth.

[JohnH]

I myself wear gender-neutral clothes most of the time, and I have a femme hair cut, wear lipstick and clear nail polish on my fingernails. I might occasionally wear a dress (my wife never wears a dress!) and in the summer time I wear denim skirts instead of shorts and have my toenails painted (my wife never wears skirts either!)

However every night I wear a nightgown.

There was a time I wore dresses a lot more frequently and had colored nail polish on my fingernails. But I have settled down.

So I am not a flaming fetish crossdresser. I don't have a male mode and a female mode - I have only one mode.

Johanna (John)

[AllisonK]

I understand what ya'll are saying but it is so confusing to me. Personally I can't find myself on the scale of CD/TG. I don't own a dress. I don't really care for them. I prefer to dress in something comfortable and practical. I don't dress for a perversion or because I want to look like a woman. I dress because it feels normal. I feel right. I have been wearing female attire since about the age of 7-8. I have been through every emotion I can think of. At this point I don't even classify myself as a CD or TG. I just think that some people prefer to dress more exotic for a lot of reasons. I can see the differences in the forums though. I prefer this one for educational purposes and the other for fun. Just my thoughts.

[karenlong]

i wear too short and showing my butt, clothes lol to the club, but thats the only place i have to go lol

[Anna Lorree]

I understand what ya'll are saying but it is so confusing to me. Personally I can't find myself on the scale of CD/TG. I don't own a dress. I don't really care for them. I prefer to dress in something comfortable and practical. I don't dress for a perversion or because I want to look like a woman. I dress because it feels normal. I feel right. I have been wearing female attire since about the age of 7-8. I have been through every emotion I can think of. At this point I don't even classify myself as a CD or TG. I just think that some people prefer to dress more exotic for a lot of reasons. I can see the differences in the forums though. I prefer this one for educational purposes and the other for fun. Just my thoughts.

I very much understand and agree with you, I have had a hard time figuring out where on the "spectrum" I fall. I have no real desire to get SRS, but I have always felt like I am supposed to have breasts. I enjoy wearing women's clothes, but don't do the fetishistic thing. Not only do I feel stuck somewhere between male and female, I feel stuck somewhere between all of the "trans" groups. I'm not a classic CD, I'm not a classic TS. I don't identify with the whole "genderqueer" label, either. It is all so very confusing and frustrating, sometimes. All I want is to be comfortable with who I am, and belong somewhere.

Anna

[AKAMichelle]

Traci,

They are doing exactly what the name implies, they are cross dressing.
Cross dressing implies that you are dressing opposite of your true gender.

We are dressing as our true gender.



Julia

I think this statement says it all.

[AllisonK]

I very much understand and agree with you, I have had a hard time figuring out where on the "spectrum" I fall. I have no real desire to get SRS, but I have always felt like I am supposed to have breasts. I enjoy wearing women's clothes, but don't do the fetishistic thing. Not only do I feel stuck somewhere between male and female, I feel stuck somewhere between all of the "trans" groups. I'm not a classic CD, I'm not a classic TS. I don't identify with the whole "genderqueer" label, either. It is all so very confusing and frustrating, sometimes. All I want is to be comfortable with who I am, and belong somewhere.

Anna

I have always had the desire but prior life commitments will outweigh the need. To me being truly happy would be being female. Mine is also compounded by the fact that I do not like men. It's confusing so where does that put me. I want to belong somewhere as well. To me a closet CD could have the same idea as to what a woman dresses like as someone that has undergone SRS. Just depends on their life experiences and why they don't openly express how they feel. Clothing options for them could be anything from conservative to down right pornographic. Same goes for someone who lives in the gender they were born.

[Kate T]

OMG who cares! ...............

Repeat.

Live and let live. I sort of thought that was the point.

[Melody Moore]

How most of the gals in the CD section wear leather or dresses/skirts up to their butt and super high heels or tall boots?

And over here we try to blend in with women our own age mostly in a conservative manner.

Big difference Huh?

JUST SAYING


I would like to dress sexy, short skirts and heels and boots, it can be fun, but looked ridiculous when I have tried to.... I'm about 20 years to late.

Huge difference, and Arbon, sometimes the older CDers remind me of mutton dressed up as lamb.

[ReneeT]

Here's another perspective: both transexual and non-TS transgendered indiviuals who identify all or in part as female seek to express through appearance their gender identity. This can be limited in time as in the case of a "traditional" crossdresser or more holistic in the case of us transexual people. In both cases, expression through fashion is a learning experience, learning what presentation is truly "us". Early on, when insecurity is high and self-understanding is low, we often embrace styles that we and others perceive as hyper-feminine - short skirts, high heels, heavy makeup, etc. As we grow into ouselves, there is often a "transition" to a presentation more in line with our true selves. This is definately true for me. While I have an enviable collection of expensive heels and more than one custom corset, I honestly don't recall the last time i wore them. My style is now what it was in male gender presentation: fashionably conservative. Keep in mind that when we post pictures we are only showing a moment in time. I bet many of us present far differently now than we did a year ago. Another interesting observation: many of us take far fewer pictures now than we used to........

[Traci Elizabeth]

I bet many of us present far differently now than we did a year ago. Another interesting observation: many of us take far fewer pictures now than we used to........

I think you are right on on both of those observations. It was certainly true for me. And I to have some clothes that I would never wear again regardless of the occasion.

[Bree-asaurus]

I think you are right on on both of those observations. It was certainly true for me. And I to have some clothes that I would never wear again regardless of the occasion.

Yuppers. I threw away a garbage bag full of cloths one day when I looked in my closet and was like "WTF WAS I THINKING?!?!?!?!"

[Eryn]

How most of the gals in the CD section wear leather or dresses/skirts up to their butt and super high heels or tall boots?

And over here we try to blend in with women our own age mostly in a conservative manner.

Big difference Huh?

JUST SAYING

Isn't it amazing how people who use the phrase "just saying" are actually trying to do a lot more than merely make a statement! :)

Narrow that broad brush to "some of the gals" and I might agree with you, but I'm "just a CDer" and definitely dress conservatively and age-appropriately.

Leather? Other than shoes, belts, and handbags I don't own any.
Super high heels? At 6'2", forget it. I only wear heels when I'm going to meet socially with other tall TG folks and the heels don't need to be all that high!
Tall boots? No taller than mid-calf, and those are fuzzy and warm.
Dress up to my butt? Nothing shorter than my avatar picture, and I consider that one to be a bit too short to go out in.

A few of us take pleasure from dressing in "fetish" clothing. Some of us like to dress to the nines and go out on the town. Some of us like to dress appropriately and shop our way through the mall. Some of us like to wear baggy sweats and watch TV. And some of us like to belittle others for their various choices. Luckily, everyone is welcome on the forum!

Hugs, Eryn

[Babeba]

You know, I get what you're saying, Traci... There are picture threads that make me shake my head, too. HOWEVER, two points:

1) you can pretty much see those threads having big warning lights on them - so if you're just going to judge them anyway, passing on by does more to stop the repeats (the view count is lower and doesn't encourage them for more).

2) it's not a majority that posts naughty pictures, or even takes them. I think a lot of CDs are just like me, or you, or my partner Crystal: just trying to be their real selves and find where they best fit. I liked playing around with different fun outfits and makeup when I was a teen, I'm sure you did at some point, too - how else do you find your style? I am always trying to talk Crystal into shorter skirts as her legs are FANTASTIC and I wish we could show them off more but she just won't bow to social pressure and I really respect her for that. Just as I respect the CD poster who was on here for a while carting around a 20 pound rack, because that was really something else and totally for herself.

Also, 3) what's so wrong about fetishes? So long as they're not lying to/hurting spouses or partners, or engaging in self destructive practices, why is it any skin off your nose?

[AllieSF]

Interesting question. Contrary to your stated intent it appears to me it is meant to start the "us versus them", or is it "here versus there" conversation. I know what you see here on this site and I have seen it too. However, away from this site, which is just a small segment of the whole LGTB world, and out in the real world I have seen numerous TS's, self proclaimed, not me just guessing who they are, that once they got their implants got off by showing them to whomever wanted to see them plus a whole lot of others that preferred not to see them like me. I have never seen a CD show their boobs to all the world. Big Difference Huh? Now, I do not need to ask why because I know that any group is made up of all kinds and that a question like that will stir up the blood of some, in this case me.

Now using your faulty reasoning, or is it innocent questioning, I guess I could ask an equally innocent (or inflammatory, depending on how you want to read it) question based on my own real personal experience mentioned above and probably that of a few other people in and out of the LGBT spectrum, why is it that there seems to be some TS's that are exhibitionists? Gee, innocent question coming, do you think that is because they are finally able to let their real selves out? And in case that you can't tell, I am not asking that question!

We have had so many contentious threads lately causing some very worthy topics, not as important as your topic though, to be closed because of how people react to statements made by others. You definitely have the right, but why do we need to even ask questions like this unless it is to prop up someone's need to feel better than someone else? Sorry, as you can see I do not fully believe your claim to innocence in asking your question. Why didn't you ask about the GG's that like to dress sexy, you know leather skirts up to their a**, show some cleavage or more, wear "do me" 5 inch platform heels, and actually go out in public? Why didn't that raise your curiosity enough to ask about them? Probably because they are women, women sometimes do that and it may be acceptable to you. So, these women who dress like that are they fetishists too?

My point is that we all see things that we may not be to out tastes on an individual basis. However, some things are better left un-asked, and your questions is, in my opinion, one of them. By asking it, you want to see how many think like you, support for your point of view. I respect and accept everyone however they present themselves as they try to live, survive and to enjoy this world and the short life that God has given us. You also knew the answer to your question before you asked it. I also understand that for a lot if not most CD's, including me, the clothes are important, period, and that for most TS's it is not about the clothes, but about being able to just be yourself, another period. That being said I would never ask in any public forum your question about CD's, or my hypothetical question about TS's because I know that everyone is different, and that it is just not good, it is great for all of us.

Celebrate the diversity of the world and especially of the wonderful rainbow of people and personalities that you find on this site. You don't have to love them, but at least respect their right to be who they want to be, as I do respect your rights, which includes asking a question like you did.

[kellycan27]

Interesting question. Contrary to your stated intent it appears to me it is meant to start the "us versus them", or is it "here versus there" conversation. I know what you see here on this site and I have seen it too. However, away from this site, which is just a small segment of the whole LGTB world, and out in the real world I have seen numerous TS's, self proclaimed, not me just guessing who they are, that once they got their implants got off by showing them to whomever wanted to see them plus a whole lot of others that preferred not to see them like me. I have never seen a CD show their boobs to all the world. Big Difference Huh? Now, I do not need to ask why because I know that any group is made up of all kinds and that a question like that will stir up the blood of some, in this case me.




Now using your faulty reasoning, or is it innocent questioning, I guess I could ask an equally innocent (or inflammatory, depending on how you want to read it) question based on my own real personal experience mentioned above and probably that of a few other people in and out of the LGBT spectrum, why is it that there seems to be some TS's that are exhibitionists? Gee, innocent question coming, do you think that is because they are finally able to let their real selves out? And in case that you can't tell, I am not asking that question!

We have had so many contentious threads lately causing some very worthy topics, not as important as your topic though, to be closed because of how people react to statements made by others. You definitely have the right, but why do we need to even ask questions like this unless it is to prop up someone's need to feel better than someone else? Sorry, as you can see I do not fully believe your claim to innocence in asking your question. Why didn't you ask about the GG's that like to dress sexy, you know leather skirts up to their a**, show some cleavage or more, wear "do me" 5 inch platform heels, and actually go out in public? Why didn't that raise your curiosity enough to ask about them? Probably because they are women, women sometimes do that and it may be acceptable to you. So, these women who dress like that are they fetishists too?

My point is that we all see things that we may not be to out tastes on an individual basis. However, some things are better left un-asked, and your questions is, in my opinion, one of them. By asking it, you want to see how many think like you, support for your point of view. I respect and accept everyone however they present themselves as they try to live, survive and to enjoy this world and the short life that God has given us. You also knew the answer to your question before you asked it. I also understand that for a lot if not most CD's, including me, the clothes are important, period, and that for most TS's it is not about the clothes, but about being able to just be yourself, another period. That being said I would never ask in any public forum your question about CD's, or my hypothetical question about TS's because I know that everyone is different, and that it is just not good, it is great for all of us.

Celebrate the diversity of the world and especially of the wonderful rainbow of people and personalities that you find on this site. You don't have to love them, but at least respect their right to be who they want to be, as I do respect your rights, which includes asking a question like you did.


:thumbsup: Very well said! I have to admit that the title alone struck me as a little provocative to begin with. Amazing.............

Kel

[Hope]

How most of the gals in the CD section wear leather or dresses/skirts up to their butt and super high heels or tall boots?

And over here we try to blend in with women our own age mostly in a conservative manner.

Big difference Huh?

JUST SAYING

We live every day as women. We go everywhere as women. This is our identity, this is who we are.

CD girls do this part time. They do this for special occasions. This may be a part of their identity, but they still identify as men.

So it is natural, that when we go out, to the grocery store, we dress comfortably, and situationally appropriately. It is just as a procreate that when the CD girls go out to - whatever events they go to where ****tier, fancier dress is appropriate... that they dress ****tier / fancier. And then there is also the fetish thing... but that is by no means all CD girls.

When you only get dressed up occasionally, you have the time and the energy and the inclination to do all of the intricate, fun, over the top dressing. And maybe you need to in order to get as much out of your femme time as possible. For those of us who are full time - we have every outlet, every opportunity, and don't need, nor do we have as much of an inclination to suck the marrow from every moment of femme time. Because it is all femme time. Just as it should be.

Goddess knows - if I had the opportunity to go someplace where I could get dressed up and wear a fun dress - I would do it too... In a place and time where that would be situationally appropriate, I just have no idea where that would be more than a few times a year.

[JohnH]

I very much understand and agree with you, I have had a hard time figuring out where on the "spectrum" I fall. I have no real desire to get SRS, but I have always felt like I am supposed to have breasts. I enjoy wearing women's clothes, but don't do the fetishistic thing. Not only do I feel stuck somewhere between male and female, I feel stuck somewhere between all of the "trans" groups. I'm not a classic CD, I'm not a classic TS. I don't identify with the whole "genderqueer" label, either. It is all so very confusing and frustrating, sometimes. All I want is to be comfortable with who I am, and belong somewhere.

Anna

You summed up my feelings in part. I have always had a large hips and butt and when I had my weight under control, my waist was 2 inches above my naval, just like a genetic female. So having breasts rounds out my feminine figure so that I don't look half-man and half-woman. I am working on getting rid of my gut so I can have an hourglass figure.

However, I do NOT see myself as ever getting SRS. I also feel that I am a male who has some feminine attributes and likes to wear clothing and groom himself in ways that are "outside the box" for men in general.

Johanna (John)

[Bree-asaurus]

We live every day as women. We go everywhere as women. This is our identity, this is who we are.

CD girls do this part time. They do this for special occasions. This may be a part of their identity, but they still identify as men.

So it is natural, that when we go out, to the grocery store, we dress comfortably, and situationally appropriately. It is just as a procreate that when the CD girls go out to - whatever events they go to where ****tier, fancier dress is appropriate... that they dress ****tier / fancier. And then there is also the fetish thing... but that is by no means all CD girls.

When you only get dressed up occasionally, you have the time and the energy and the inclination to do all of the intricate, fun, over the top dressing. And maybe you need to in order to get as much out of your femme time as possible. For those of us who are full time - we have every outlet, every opportunity, and don't need, nor do we have as much of an inclination to suck the marrow from every moment of femme time. Because it is all femme time. Just as it should be.

Goddess knows - if I had the opportunity to go someplace where I could get dressed up and wear a fun dress - I would do it too... In a place and time where that would be situationally appropriate, I just have no idea where that would be more than a few times a year.

I like Hope's reply here. If I was forced to wear a potato sack all week and only had the weekends to be myself, I'd probably be like "**** yeah! I'm wearing a friggin dress! Stupid potato sack thinks it can tell me what to do..."

On a daily basis, it's hard for me to do anything more than throw on jeans and a t-shirt. Painting nails, once a month. Shaving, once a week (or when I feel bad for my bf :P). Makeup? Only when I HAVE to go out... and not to look pretty... just to hide any masculine traits still left. And it's probably like Hope says, my identity is no longer restricted. I can be myself all the time, so the fancy stuff just becomes more of a hassle than anything else.

[kimdl93]

I presume that the reason that many of "us" arrived at this site is that we identified ourselves as CDrs or at least identified with CDrs, even if we had already decided we were TG or TS. Upon arrival, we learned we were in a fairly large and clearly diverse community of individuals having at least the one common interest - wearing women's clothing. Some of us, myself included, our particular interest/desire/need to express a desire to "be women" (to a lesser or greater extent), while others enjoyed CDing privately, occassionally, and in some cases as a mechanism of sexual satisfaction.

Its human nature for a community like this to differentiate itself even more, to reflect the differences in intersts/desires/needs. (See Protestant Religious Denominations and High School cliques as examples) As I've learned and become more honest with myself about my motivations, I find I'm gravitating more towards the TS end of the spectrum. Still, I'm part of the larger community too. And while there are many choices and interests among members that don't work for me, I still feel a sense that we are fellow travelers...just taking somewhat different paths.

Its ok to ask the "why" as expressed in the OP, and I think the answers given have for the most part responded appropriately. If the title seemed a bit provocative, I feel that Traci has made it clear that it wasn't her intent to provoke anything but discussion. And that's ok too.

[Lorileah]

Traci,

They are doing exactly what the name implies, they are cross dressing.
Cross dressing implies that you are dressing opposite of your true gender.

We are dressing as our true gender.



Julia

That is a very narrow minded statement. You infer that women don't wear the clothing that the CD's wear. Julia I know it has not been that long ago you were out in a public arena where GG's wore clubbing outfits.

I have 4 leather skirts, one in so short it barely covers my rear and the others are varying lengths down to mid calf. I really find this thread to be just another "us" vs Them" thing. It isn't allowed to critique a GG in that manner and yet some TS's seem to consider themselves above everyone else.

In general the TS population here are 24/7. You dress for daily things. If a TS wore club clothes daily would you "dis" her? Oh yeah probably because so many here have a high opinion of themselves. Consider that the CD's you so sweetly have now said dress like...I dunno...prostitutes, easy lays... only dress sometimes. They dress like a GG would dress if they had one chance a month and were able to dress to look good for clubbing or maybe their spouse. These clothes you all seem to find wrong were purchased in the women's department of clothing stores that cater to women.

I would just once like to see the TS's here who are so high and mighty, actually be nice to everyone some time. Sorry some here think they are in a different boat, but quit rowing against the rest of the world.

Give up on the us against them thing just once and lets try and be on the same team...

This is so High school

[Bree-asaurus]

I would just once like to see the TS's here who are so high and mighty, actually be nice to everyone some time. Sorry some here think they are in a different boat, but quit rowing against the rest of the world.

There are TSs that think they're better than everyone else, as a crossdresser who ventures in here will notice.
There are CDers that think they're better than everyone else, as a transexual who ventures into the CD forum will notice.
It's no different than out in the real world. There are always people, regardless of how they were born, that think they know what's up and will do nothing but tell the world how they see it.

[Kathy Smith]

I'm really enjoying this thread. :-)

April really sums it up though, "OMG who cares! ............... ". Brief, but to the point!

I've no idea if the OP was just trolling, but there are actually some really interesting comments in here.

Julie:
"They are doing exactly what the name implies, they are cross dressing.
Cross dressing implies that you are dressing opposite of your true gender.

We are dressing as our true gender."

Oversimplified, I'm afraid (and I suspect that you know it!). As a TS you would be dressing as a female with feminine gender. A M-F CD would be dressing as a male with feminine gender while "dressed" and as a male with masculine gender when in drab.


Allie:
"Celebrate the diversity of the world and especially of the wonderful rainbow of people and personalities that you find on this site. You don't have to love them, but at least respect their right to be who they want to be, as I do respect your rights, which includes asking a question like you did."

That's nearly worthy of a thread to itself. :-)

[StacyC]

Amazing thread. I loved reading it.

I can only really conclude one thing.
People do what they need to do. :)

[WsprsOnTheWind]

I understand what ya'll are saying but it is so confusing to me. Personally I can't find myself on the scale of CD/TG. I don't own a dress. I don't really care for them. I prefer to dress in something comfortable and practical. I don't dress for a perversion or because I want to look like a woman. I dress because it feels normal. I feel right. I have been wearing female attire since about the age of 7-8. I have been through every emotion I can think of. At this point I don't even classify myself as a CD or TG. I just think that some people prefer to dress more exotic for a lot of reasons. I can see the differences in the forums though. I prefer this one for educational purposes and the other for fun. Just my thoughts.

And this makes you any different from many CD's how? This is true for a lot of them.

[LeaP]

And this makes you any different from many CD's how? This is true for a lot of them.

The difference is that most men who identify as crossdressers are just that. Men. Adamantly so. That's observable in this site's responses on the topic and it's true in medical literature and commentary. No gender dysphoria, no identity issues, and no creep on those topics for most either. If anything, VAIN's response tends to support the observation that TS's trend toward mainline, day-to-day female dress.

Lorileah made some excellent point on exceptional and occasional dress (e.g., clubbing) vs. daily dress. In other words, the observation of differences, while defensible, isn't exactly apples to oranges. Still, I believe there is a difference in desire. For example, I don't see the typical TS wanting to dress in a club dress to NOT go out, and though there is some interest in everyday dress among CDs, it's not very strong. I do NOT take the CD pattern (as I see it) to the point of making a value judgement on the validity of the expression, however. This is something that has existed through human history.

Lea

[danielleb]

Within the age appropriate clothing that I wear I like to be elegant, chic and yes sexy... ...I find quite a number of women born in a male body tend to dress somewhat drab to fly under the radar. Being 6'4" I stand out anyway so I want to be beyond criticism regarding my clothes. I am very much into fashion, always have been, love shopping, always have, and are often asked to accompany my friends to buy clothes to advise them.

I'm with Kathryn on this! Thanks for not being a slob.:D

I get a little tired of hearing most of the TS women commenting that they don't need to dress nicely and want to just blend in. If I wanted to live my life in anonimity I could easily accomplish that as a guy. I'm not out to cause a stir, but like Kathryn, if I'm critiqued by GG's while out I prefer that they at least take away that I have a sense of style. I think one of the greatest talents you can acquire as a woman is your own sense of style and how to achieve a polished look for everyday situations.

I'm not quite 6" anything (5' 11") but I know I'm going to stand out at some point however much I try not to. I have short legs, so I wear heels mostly to compensate for that a bit. I have a long torso so most dresses have an empire waist and the skirts are usually shorter to compensate for my legs again. It's simply using the tools at my disposal.

Ultimately, it just comes down to dressing appropriately for the situation whoever you are, and being comfortable in your own skin.:)

[sonna]

here i can make it simple. we true CDS just want to look like a woman ................you TS are woman
and most of the CDS that go out really want to blend in just as much as you do......just an opinion!
dont want to start a war.:devil:

[Teri Jean]

I think there is a reason for the difference and Bree hit it on the head. We want to be female and others want to "have a little fun". Not all CDers dress provocatively but your observations are very astute.

[Violetgray]

Well done, ladies. I figured the mods would have had to lock the thread by now!

[RachelOKC]

Interesting thread, can't say I agree with any "us v. them" angle. I've been on all sides of that fence.

I've known plenty of CD's who dressed like a million bucks and I've known some who look like they raided grandma's closet...not the good vintage stuff either. I've known TS's who look like a fashion editor, and known some that put the bag in bag lady. We've got 'em all, dearies, just gonna have to live with it.

Sure, the fetishy stuff and micro mini short skirts don't do much for me personally, but to each their own huh? I remember back in the 90's a drag queen on stage calling me out as a fashion nightmare because I was wearing a flannel shirt over a bodysuit. What did I care, I thought I looked damn cute! ;)

[Erica Thorn]

This sure is a interesting thread and I started thinking about it to... when me and my GF was shoe-shopping a few weeks back she held up a pair of super cute flats and asked me if I wanted them but I said no thanks and kept looking at some 3" heels!

Now lots of women wear that kind of heals daily at my workplace so there's nothing special about that but the reason I didn't want them (might consider it now tough) was that they looked to plain... I'm closeted btw and even tough a short leather skirt would be fun to have I wouldn't go out in it.. heck I don't even go out in a womans sweater ^^

Anyhow, what I was going to write was that when I do dress upp, I like to look nice, sexy if you could call it that... but I don't have a chance to dress that often! I'm pretty sure that if I was going dressed 24/7 I wouldn't aim for that, then comfort would be the most important factor! but those 3-4hrs each or every second month should be "special"... a wool sweater is just to... hmm... casual!
See it like this, most GG's like to dress upp now and then to into something more "special" then their normal clothes, or we wouldn't have a market for thigh-high boots and short skirts :D

[Kaitlyn Michele]

here i can make it simple. we true CDS just want to look like a woman ................you TS are woman
and most of the CDS that go out really want to blend in just as much as you do......just an opinion!
dont want to start a war.:devil:

be careful! "true " cd's means exactly what?? hopefully you are not imposing a cd hierarchy!!!

you are right tho, ...lots and lots of cd's would love to "pass", and if they could, i bet they would dress more "appropriately"

Also, i have met many over dressed transsexuals in my travels..including transsexuals that enjoyed dressing very sexy all the time.. look at some of the girls that get surgery resulting in huge lips, huge breasts, huge butts...
the thing that's nice about it for women, is that we can dress anyway we want ..

This whole question should be filed in the bin..."there is really no reason to compare cd's to transsexuals"..its just not the same thing, and never will be...we should just not compare ourselves and just get along
as Rachel says It's not right to say "US" vs "THEM"...however i believe it is true to say its "US" and "THEM"...two different things...

the exception may be that because we are both born with male shaped bodies, transsexuals will tend to have alot more experience in dressing to feminize their physique in a natural way

[Traci Elizabeth]

I am glad that no flaming arrows were shot. See we can all be civil and friendly (well most of us anyway).

[Monica93304]

I dress as I feel. I dress sexier than most of my TS friends even though I'm in the early stages of HRT (not full time yet). I have yet to be made fun of or insulted. I think I pull this off well, and even if I didn't it's my life to live as I please.

I'm only going to live once and have been near death already. I'm going to make the most of it.

[Sammy777]

They are doing exactly what the name implies, they are cross dressing.
Cross dressing implies that you are dressing opposite of your true gender.
We are dressing as our true gender.

Honestly, I can not believe how many people have applauded this comment?
It brings nothing to the table and it only makes me think of one thing:


"Well Thank You Captain Obvious."


I get a little tired of hearing most of the TS women commenting that they don't need to dress nicely and want to just blend in.
I think one of the greatest talents you can acquire as a woman is your own sense of style and how to achieve a polished look for everyday situations.

This comment vaguely reeks of the fabled: Why do women [GG's and TS' alike]
Forgo their femininity and wear jeans and t-shirts instead of dresses and heels everyday. :rolleyes:

[Aprilrain]

[B][COLOR="blue"]This comment vaguely reeks of the fabled: Why do women [GG's and TS' alike]
Forgo their femininity and wear jeans and t-shirts instead of dresses and heels everyday. :rolleyes:

I'd wear dresses and skirts more often if I lived some where warm (Midwestern winters suck! (in a bad way that is)) but I'd still not wear heals and forgo the makeup most days too. I promise to shave my legs though!

[LeannL]

Yes, that is true but I still think not all but most CD's dress more provocative which leads me to believe it is more sexual in nature than trying to blend in.


The last thing I want to do is to start a war. My impressions were just an observation that I find interesting that there does exist a difference most of the time and wonder why. Personally, I would think "any" woman who goes out in public would still want to blend in and not draw the wrong kinds of looks or attention regardless of their reason for being in female clothes.

Traci,
Please be careful with your words. To suggest that "most CD's dress more provocative" would suggest that you have done some quantitative determination of this supposition. In my experience, a minority of CDs dress this way but then again, I haven't done a quantitative study. How about we agree that the most appropriate word would me "some" or even "many".

WRT "any" woman in public wanting to blend in, I guess we would have to agree on what age constitutes womanhood but I have seen lots (not most but many) of 20 something women who, unless they were selling themselves, were dressed inappropriately. I have also seen some much older women who were not that differently dressed also.

Generalizations are almost always wrong but observations without implying majorities or even large numbers are always interesting.


Personally, I guess I don't quite dress age appropriate. I am a CDer. I probably dress like a 40 something even though I am late 50s but then again, even in male mode, most people think I am 45. For me, a short skirt is 2 inches above the knee. Yes, when I go out, I do try to blend in and I seem to be doing OK at that as I have had to explain that my male drivers license is really mine when I am dress as a girl.

Leann

[Sammy777]

I'd wear dresses and skirts more often if I lived some where warm (Midwestern winters suck! (in a bad way that is)) but I'd still not wear heals and forgo the makeup most days too. I promise to shave my legs though!

Brrrrrrrr I feel for you. :) Usually NJ is no picnic in the winter either.
I agree with saving the dresses for the warmer months, but you can usually get away with a skirt and tights around here in the winter if you need or want to for work or a night out. During the cold winter days pants/jeans are always a good way to go though if you can get away with it that is. :)

[Sara Jessica]

I've been looking for a place to jump into this one and I think I found it...


I get a little tired of hearing most of the TS women commenting that they don't need to dress nicely and want to just blend in. If I wanted to live my life in anonimity I could easily accomplish that as a guy. I'm not out to cause a stir, but like Kathryn, if I'm critiqued by GG's while out I prefer that they at least take away that I have a sense of style. I think one of the greatest talents you can acquire as a woman is your own sense of style and how to achieve a polished look for everyday situations.

I really like the gist of what you are saying Danielle with the exception of using the word "most" when referring to TS women.


This comment vaguely reeks of the fabled: Why do women [GG's and TS' alike]
Forgo their femininity and wear jeans and t-shirts instead of dresses and heels everyday. :rolleyes:

Yes, using the phrase "most TS women" runs the risk of obscuring the message within.

Women, whether natal or transgendered, all approach style differently. The driving force is usually something called life. What is one's job or career? Perhaps she is bringing home the bacon and cooking it too and feels much more at-ease running about town in jeans, tennies and a top more often than not. Then there are other women who for lack of a better description make style their hobby. Who cares what the motivation is, some simply enjoy fashion. Yet one often sees that on the TS side of the fence, it's almost taboo to be of a similar mindset. A dear friend of mine took a rash of crap from "the community" for maintaining some fixation on clothes, shoes & makeup post-transition. Her "trans-ness" was questioned up one side and down the other. However, anyone who knew her personally saw that this was simply expression of her style, something that she reveled in as she transitioned rather than eschewed which sometimes comes across as some sort of unwritten rule.

I enjoy style and I couldn't see this changing if I were to transition tomorrow. In fact, I've said elsewhere that my wardrobe is very well-rounded to the point that if I were to do so, there really isn't anything that I'd have to run out and buy, that all my bases are covered from casual to dressy and pretty much everything in between.


WRT "any" woman in public wanting to blend in, I guess we would have to agree on what age constitutes womanhood but I have seen lots (not most but many) of 20 something women who, unless they were selling themselves, were dressed inappropriately. I have also seen some much older women who were not that differently dressed also.

Women don't need to blend in, they achieve this naturally by being part of the tribe. Those who dress to draw attention are simply doing just that. It doesn't mean in the least bit that other women are choosing to blend in.

[Marleena]

I am glad that no flaming arrows were shot. See we can all be civil and friendly (well most of us anyway).

It did go quite well based on your real intention of poking fun at CDers. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that. Your recent comments in the picture gallery are proof. You are also poking fun at TS ladies that used to post in there too.

Just sayin...

[Wendy_Marie]

I see what you are getting at and I agree to a point..but for my own personal experiences I dress to blend as I spend a good deal of my time dressed out in the public's eye...so wearing an 11" Mini-Skirt and thigh High 5" stiletto boots to the grocery store, DMV or Library would make me stand out like a sore thumb. To each their own...and if my Sisters in the CD section want to wear short skirts, maid outfits or other sexy and skimpy costumes...who am I to say anything? "Can't we all just get along?"

[Julia_in_Pa]

All in appropriate venues Lori.

Outside the Scarlet Ranch you would see me as just me. Nothing but the normal conservative wear that defines me.
That venue was used by me to physically cause harm to men set within an atmosphere that was very forgiving of actions.

Men are driven visually hence all the glam, clothing and makeup.
Go to the CD section and tell me you do not see panty threads or the obsessions about the colours and feel of things.
It drives a large number of them to do what they do.
I defend my statement because it's true.
for a very large number in that forum it is about sexual stimulation and release and much less about illusion as other CD's enjoy their clothing as.


Julia





That is a very narrow minded statement. You infer that women don't wear the clothing that the CD's wear. Julia I know it has not been that long ago you were out in a public arena where GG's wore clubbing outfits.

I have 4 leather skirts, one in so short it barely covers my rear and the others are varying lengths down to mid calf. I really find this thread to be just another "us" vs Them" thing. It isn't allowed to critique a GG in that manner and yet some TS's seem to consider themselves above everyone else.

In general the TS population here are 24/7. You dress for daily things. If a TS wore club clothes daily would you "dis" her? Oh yeah probably because so many here have a high opinion of themselves. Consider that the CD's you so sweetly have now said dress like...I dunno...prostitutes, easy lays... only dress sometimes. They dress like a GG would dress if they had one chance a month and were able to dress to look good for clubbing or maybe their spouse. These clothes you all seem to find wrong were purchased in the women's department of clothing stores that cater to women.

I would just once like to see the TS's here who are so high and mighty, actually be nice to everyone some time. Sorry some here think they are in a different boat, but quit rowing against the rest of the world.

Give up on the us against them thing just once and lets try and be on the same team...

This is so High school

[Lorileah]

All in appropriate venues Lori. Now we have to define appropriate venues :) As Wendy noted
it does that with GG's too and yet I have seen GG's dressed that in those places...OK OK I have never been to the library.

[quote]Outside the Scarlet Ranch you would see me as just me. Nothing but the normal conservative wear that defines me. As most women wear most the time. One thing I think some here fail to understand is that the pictures you see here are often a special occasion (even if it i just in the privacy of your own home) and that most of what you see in those photos would not be seen outside of places that were appropriate. (BTW the Scarlet Ranch moved. Now where can I wear my mini leather? :)) What you see is a snapshot in time. They don't dress like that all the time.



Men are driven visually hence all the glam, clothing and makeup. So what you are all saying that the outfits in question are to stimulate men? OH...sort of like the men who are wearing them? And if a TS should decide she wanted to stimulate a man? Birkenstocks and calico no doubt. (That is sooooo stereotypic)

Go to the CD section and tell me you do not see panty threads or the obsessions about the colours and feel of things.
It drives a large number of them to do what they do. There is that "them" thing again. I would propose in general that there is a progression here just as there is a progression in real life. When a young woman starts to reach the age where she wants to be seen, she will dress to be seen. Often it is not a good look but it is noticeable. I consider many CD's to be in that area of development. The young (even if they are 60) new exciting years where you look for things that make you stand out. Otherwise you would not really care. Since the majority of early CD's here are still not "out" and they really do it as you say to stimulate their minds, then clothing like that is common. And add that when they do post those photos they get positive reinforcement then they enjoy the feeling. Even TS's have felt the thrill of a fabric or a color at some point. So I don't really think the OP had a valid point. There are so many variances here that no statement can be all inclusive to start with. But to say that TS's dress closer to GG's is false (on many levels, go to Sturgis this summer.). Consider that for a TS they have moved beyond that now...that is all.
It just comes off as elitism. There is a thread here that makes the point that there are certain TS's who dress in drag.

I defend my statement because it's true. from your perspective. But things don't always fit a certain perspective. Being from a scientific background I see flaws in your argument which will prove the thesis wrong.

for a very large number in that forum it is about sexual stimulation and release and much less about illusion as other CD's enjoy their clothing as. I think you didn't finish this or I am misunderstanding. But let's take what is here. As animals (humans and or mammals to be specific) a driving force early on is sex. I assume that post op TS's still desire sex (but then again as I age it is also less important). If we take that TS's desire sexual contact, they must somehow signal a potential mate. In most cases this will be with clothing (unless you are a really good cook and you can use odor...). So TS's will wear something to attract a mate (even lesbians like a girl in a dress...just sayin'). The OP basically has stated that TS's would not do that. That is true as they would not do that ALL the time, but if they were to go somewhere to meet someone, they may very well. This is true for the CD's too, they don't dress like that all the time.You pointed out that men are visual (I have heard that before but not really sure we can make that a broad statement either). So I don't see the problem in how someone dresses. If they dress to stimulate a male, either one they meet somewhere or themselves, why is this a problem? I really don't like the divisiveness that is on these boards. (and I will admit that I am a hypocrite in a manner there...I don't think drag queens do us much good but that is a different thread). However, I think some people forget their roots as the develop. This is not a hierarchy, nor an evolution toward a higher being (with being a TS ats the penultimate). We are all along a spectrum. It is not linear either. And I still don't see how it is alright to "dis" a segment of the CD's here. It is no different than if one says that GG's should or should not dress in a certain manner. That is my main point with this thread. It is a thinly veiled attack on a segment of the group here. Just think about changing a few key words. Like if someone on the main boards had said "I think all TS"s dress like frumpy dumpy unattractive people."? It would have been shut down in a heart beat. But basically saying that CD's dress like call girls seems to have been OK. That is my truth from my perspective

[JohnH]

I'd wear dresses and skirts more often if I lived some where warm (Midwestern winters suck! (in a bad way that is)) but I'd still not wear heals and forgo the makeup most days too. I promise to shave my legs though!

In the summertime I wear denim skirts almost al the time, sometimes with wedge sandals. And I DO shave my legs year round as well as my arms. Sometimes I wear a dress but not very often - I need to get some updated styles. It's hard to get new clothes when you are unemployed!

Johanna (John)

[Bree-asaurus]

As most women wear most the time. One thing I think some here fail to understand is that the pictures you see here are often a special occasion (even if it i just in the privacy of your own home) and that most of what you see in those photos would not be seen outside of places that were appropriate. (BTW the Scarlet Ranch moved. Now where can I wear my mini leather? :)) What you see is a snapshot in time. They don't dress like that all the time.

Actually... most of the racier pictures I see are of the CDers at home alone with no intention mentioned of actually going out. They're just dressing up in racy cloths and taking pictures for the fun of dressing up in racy cloths and taking pictures... admiring themselves and posting them here for other people to admire.

Again, this is only a portion of the CDing community... but I can't remember seeing anything remotely similar posted in the TS forums (Not counting halloween... when everyones' **** genes start signaling :P).

I own lingerie and wear it on the rare occasion for my boyfriend. Nothing wrong with that. Just like there's nothing wrong with CDers wearing it for their own pleasure... we just wear it for different reasons.

[Julia_in_Pa]

@ Bree,

What you said sums it up.


Julia

[elizabethamy]

Maybe it's because I don't go out dressed, but I too have wondered at the photo-obsession of many CD's and the need for validation that exists from sharing the look in one new outfit after another. I mean, to each her own -- it's fine. But it's not me. I am so grateful and relieved and relaxed to be able to grab a couple of hours of quiet time to put on a dress and tights and just be Elizabethamy. I don't need any one (men or otherwise) looking at me, and I don't need a photograph to remind me of how it feels. I just want the feeling, and the peace that it brings, especially when the rest of my life stresses me.

What's wonderful about this site is that there seems to be every kind of transgender at every possible stage and style here. I don't understand lots of you, but you don't have to understand me either! We have a lot to share and a haven we need. Yay for that!

elizabethamy

[Bree-asaurus]

I don't understand lots of you, but you don't have to understand me either!

I wish more people would think this way.

[danielleb]

This comment vaguely reeks of the fabled: Why do women [GG's and TS' alike]
Forgo their femininity and wear jeans and t-shirts instead of dresses and heels everyday. :rolleyes:

I'm sorry you took it that way, that was clearly not my intention which I hope you could have discerned from the entireity of my post, or even skewed to only the comment itself. "Everyday situations" implies jeans and a T-shirt. It's simply the choice of wearing something ill fitting with no accesories and clearly presenting to the world that you have put forth no effort, or making the effort to wear something clean and properly fitted with stylish accesories.


I really like the gist of what you are saying Danielle with the exception of using the word "most" when referring to TS women.
Yes, using the phrase "most TS women" runs the risk of obscuring the message within.
Thankyou, and you clearly get the broader message. :)

I use the word "most" from the vantage point of my experiences, not to generalize about our population. I don't know a broad spectrum of TS women, and there are only a few exceptions to this general rule for me, in my experience.



... Yet one often sees that on the TS side of the fence, it's almost taboo to be of a similar mindset. A dear friend of mine took a rash of crap from "the community" for maintaining some fixation on clothes, shoes & makeup post-transition. Her "trans-ness" was questioned up one side and down the other. However, anyone who knew her personally saw that this was simply expression of her style, something that she reveled in as she transitioned rather than eschewed which sometimes comes across as some sort of unwritten rule.

I feel that I'm dangling in this territory right now a bit. Often an unspoken persecution, but spoken at times. Out in the real world and out of the TS bubble where this isn't an issue, I feel comfortable with myself and that's really all that matters, and that's all that should matter for anyone.

[Sammy777]

I'm sorry you took it that way, that was clearly not my intention which I hope you could have discerned from the entireity of my post

While you did not come right out and say it in the post I took away from it an underlying impression that is was somehow implied in how you said it.
Perhaps I should not have read more into then what was stated, but I hope you can understand my point. Especially with the current rash of woman get to wear whatever and why can't we threads that will almost always at some point turn to how women on average dress poorly these days.


There are other women who for lack of a better description make style their hobby. some simply enjoy fashion.

Yet one often sees that on the TS side of the fence, it's almost taboo to be of a similar mindset.
A dear friend of mine took a rash of crap from "the community" for maintaining some fixation on clothes, shoes & makeup post-transition.

I have said it many times on here that I am happy to be "that girl" in jeans and sneakers. :D

At the same time though I still very much enjoy getting dressed up when the occasion permits just as most any other woman would. Nice dinner? Night out on the town? A date?
Damn straight I'm going to be rockin' me some heels and a killer outfit.
I would rather risk being slightly overdressed for the occasion then being under dressed.

Do I wear 4' heels to run to 7-11 for milk?
No, not unless I already had a reason to be wearing them in the first place.

I see no need to resign ones self to birkenstocks and baggy cargo pants just to try and go through the rest of your life unnoticed and basically ignored by the masses.
It's OK to put on a skirt and a smile every now and again.

Blending in for the most part to pass is one thing, but there is no need to blend yourself into obscurity either. It's OK to dress it up once in while just because you're feeling it, just do it with a bit of reasoning and common sense though.

I see nothing wrong with maintaining a liking of fashion, and all other things "girlie". :lol2:

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The idea that person A can comment on what person B is wearing is the gist of a multi billion dollar fashion and entertainment complex...people love doing it, reading about it, etcc..
Lots of older women look at teen girls and complain about "todays fashion" or lack of it..

but this is not about that...it's about a post by TS woman that subtly charged CD's with looking like fools...it was just a statement, and it was very broad...sorry traci, but i'm just not sure why you posted that

and CD's that disagree came and said not all of us.... this is most certainly true...CD's do not all dress like ****s or wear 5" stilletto heels...

When CD's and TS people have this conversation, it's an inherently difficult discussion because its men talking with women about the clothes that women are wearing..

to me the biggest difference between what cd's and ts wear is simply this..

We dress for our daily life, which may or may not include getting tarted up for our date, or wearing jammies to Walmart because we can... there is a physicality and emotion to wearing what you want...sometimes my boots feel like armor on a cold day...sometimes my eagles hoodie is just what i need to feel comfy on a bad hair day, and sometimes i enjoy making sure that i look great for a trip to the mall to buy some clothes and have coffee with my sister...

for cd's that may be some part of it (and btw , if it is, i'd suggest you are one of the many folks that is repressing who you are), but you dress to escape/change/enhance your daily life, and its about dressing "like" a woman...whether its sexual or not...and you guys look at women and try to dress up like one (an admirable goal!!)..and you invariably pick out clothes that are more about what clothes a guy likes on a girl, what you like on a girl.. and the cd tries to fit his body into CLOTHES that make him happy..whatever they are...and it goes from this that the more your cd nature is driven by your sexuality, the more you are gonna like the sexy stuff... thats not dissimilar to me saying that when i want to feel sexual in my clothes, i wear sexy clothes...

in short,
for a ts , the woman makes the clothes..for a cd, the clothes make the "woman"...total opposites

[Bree-asaurus]

We dress for our daily life, which may or may not include getting tarted up for our date, or wearing jammies to Walmart because we can... there is a physicality and emotion to wearing what you want...sometimes my boots feel like armor on a cold day...sometimes my eagles hoodie is just what i need to feel comfy on a bad hair day, and sometimes i enjoy making sure that i look great for a trip to the mall to buy some clothes and have coffee with my sister...

for cd's that may be some part of it (and btw , if it is, i'd suggest you are one of the many folks that is repressing who you are)

I think this is a very important point Kaitlyn. I have noticed a lot of people who frequent the crossdressing forum, or people who label themselves as crossdressers will refer to themselves as not JUST male and get offended if someone implies otherwise. They feel that there is actually a female component to their identity. They most likely identify as a transgendered individual or even a transexual, but are hiding from it. They say there is more to crossdressing than their cloths... which is usually an indication that they are not a crossdresser or not JUST a crossdresser.

When I think of a MTF crossdresser, I think of the classic definition: a MAN who wears women's cloths. Someone who happily identifies 100% as male, but just likes to wear women's cloths for whatever reason.

In my mind, if someone identifies partially or wholly as a woman, then they are not a crossdresser because they are wearing the cloths of the gender that they identify as. They are not JUST a man, they are somewhere between and including male and female genders. I believe there are more transgendered individuals than we realize... but most of them either don't understand who they are or are repressing who they are.

I believe this because I've been there. I crossdressed all my life but somehow never accepted that I was a crossdresser. Then I assumed I was JUST a crossdresser because while I finally accepted one part of my femininity, I still repressed 99.9% of it. I joined this forum as a crossdresser and would spend my time in the crossdressing forums. But as I continued exploring and accepting who I really am, I realized that I am clearly not a crossdresser at all... I didn't really identify with most of the crossdressers. I wasn't even somewhere in between... I was 100% not a dude.

[Anna Lorree]

All in appropriate venues Lori.

Outside the Scarlet Ranch you would see me as just me. Nothing but the normal conservative wear that defines me.
That venue was used by me to physically cause harm to men set within an atmosphere that was very forgiving of actions.

Men are driven visually hence all the glam, clothing and makeup.
Go to the CD section and tell me you do not see panty threads or the obsessions about the colours and feel of things.
It drives a large number of them to do what they do.
I defend my statement because it's true.
for a very large number in that forum it is about sexual stimulation and release and much less about illusion as other CD's enjoy their clothing as.
Julia

Hmm, I guess that means I am a minority again. I rarely ever find any kind of sexual release when I dress, for me it is about comfort (with myself), and just kind of feeling right. sigh Always a bridesmaid, never the bride...

Anna


I think this is a very important point Kaitlyn. I have noticed a lot of people who frequent the crossdressing forum, or people who label themselves as crossdressers will refer to themselves as not JUST male and get offended if someone implies otherwise. They feel that there is actually a female component to their identity. They most likely identify as a transgendered individual or even a transexual, but are hiding from it. They say there is more to crossdressing than their cloths... which is usually an indication that they are not a crossdresser or not JUST a crossdresser.

When I think of a MTF crossdresser, I think of the classic definition: a MAN who wears women's cloths. Someone who happily identifies 100% as male, but just likes to wear women's cloths for whatever reason.

In my mind, if someone identifies partially or wholly as a woman, then they are not a crossdresser because they are wearing the cloths of the gender that they identify as. They are not JUST a man, they are somewhere between and including male and female genders. I believe there are more transgendered individuals than we realize... but most of them either don't understand who they are or are repressing who they are.

I believe this because I've been there. I crossdressed all my life but somehow never accepted that I was a crossdresser. Then I assumed I was JUST a crossdresser because while I finally accepted one part of my femininity, I still repressed 99.9% of it. I joined this forum as a crossdresser and would spend my time in the crossdressing forums. But as I continued exploring and accepting who I really am, I realized that I am clearly not a crossdresser at all... I didn't really identify with most of the crossdressers. I wasn't even somewhere in between... I was 100% not a dude.

Wow Bree, this I can identify with. I have been called a crossdresser, but between my therapist and myself, I identify as transgendered. I still wonder where it will all end up, I am still actively trying to figure it all out. I know I am not a "typical" CD, though I used to think that was what I was. That may simply be because I was uneducated about the very specific (and unspecific) vocabulary pertaining to the "transness" in my life. That is part of the difficulty with this, the english language simply hasn't developed the vocabulary to deal with it, and no language can convey emotion completely. One thing I have found, though it may not always be fun, it is (so far) an interesting ride. I just wish I knew the destination...

Anna

[Julia_in_Pa]

Hi Anna,

I didn't just say sexual release I also said illusion as it is stated in the last sentence of the quote you have for me that you responded to.
If you consider yourself something beyond either one of those two then I invite you to take along look in the mirror because what might be staring back at you is a woman, not a cross dresser.


Julia


Hmm, I guess that means I am a minority again. I rarely ever find any kind of sexual release when I dress, for me it is about comfort (with myself), and just kind of feeling right. sigh Always a bridesmaid, never the bride...

Anna

[Jonianne]

...the english language simply hasn't developed the vocabulary to deal with it, and no language can convey emotion completely....

I don't think it's the language, but it's where we are in our life's stage, in being able to admit it. Kaitlyn sort of coined a term "identity dresser" a few weeks ago in one of her posts and I have always talked about many cd'ers, including myself, that identified "with" females, but not "as" a female. With the defination of "with" and "as" being the difference between TG cd'ers and TS women. My identifying "with" females, but not "as" a female kept me in a holding pattern in my life until my life's situation changed. Now it's eazy to admit that my inside gender is female and I do want to transition and am taking serious steps in that direction. (Actually I had been taking steps in that direction for several years now, anyway.) But, even now, I cannot just say "I am a woman", because that feels too flippant to say about myself, because of the respect I have for GG's and for those TS women who have struggled and persevered in their lives. When the time comes, that I am ready, then I will be able to use that language as well.

[Bree-asaurus]

But, even now, I cannot just say "I am a woman", because that feels too flippant to say about myself, because of the respect I have for GG's and for those TS women who have struggled and persevered in their lives. When the time comes, that I am ready, then I will be able to use that language as well.

I have no qualms saying I am a woman. Because I know that is what I am. But I totally understand what you are saying. Pretty much every post-op TS here has said that things change in a major way after SRS and that is where the real transition begins. I say I am a woman, but I by no means say I have the kind of experience that they have. I don't know what it's like to live as a woman without that constant, belittling reminder that I'm transexual. Until I get SRS, I can't really transition to live and feel like the woman I am because of this parasite that is constantly taking it's toll on my mental state. Every day I wish I knew what it was like to be able to live without it... oh I'm gonna cry now... I missed my last injection and my hormones are messing with me :/

[Anna Lorree]

Hi Anna,

I didn't just say sexual release I also said illusion as it is stated in the last sentence of the quote you have for me that you responded to.
If you consider yourself something beyond either one of those two then I invite you to take along look in the mirror because what might be staring back at you is a woman, not a cross dresser.


Julia
No sweat, I'm not going to get bent over anything here. Part of my problem (completely mine until I answer it, then it could affect other people) is that I'm up in the air right now and not sure where I am going to land yet. I think I am pretty firmly in the Transgenderist camp, but when my therapist asks about things like hormones and SRS, some of those questions can be difficult to answer.

Until I find my comfort zone in the spectrum, I am going to be searching. Sometimes, that means a little good spirited arguing or debate, and often it means misunderstandings. I hope no feelings are hurt because of it.

Anna

[Bree-asaurus]

No sweat, I'm not going to get bent over anything here. Part of my problem (completely mine until I answer it, then it could affect other people) is that I'm up in the air right now and not sure where I am going to land yet. I think I am pretty firmly in the Transgenderist camp, but when my therapist asks about things like hormones and SRS, some of those questions can be difficult to answer.

Until I find my comfort zone in the spectrum, I am going to be searching. Sometimes, that means a little good spirited arguing or debate, and often it means misunderstandings. I hope no feelings are hurt because of it.

Anna

Sometimes it can take a while to figure things out... and that's totally okay. Taking your time to really understand who you are is better than jumping the gun and assuming you are something you're not.

[Anna Lorree]

I don't think it's the language, but it's where we are in our life's stage, in being able to admit it. Kaitlyn sort of coined a term "identity dresser" a few weeks ago in one of her posts and I have always talked about many cd'ers, including myself, that identified "with" females, but not "as" a female. With the defination of "with" and "as" being the difference between TG cd'ers and TS women. My identifying "with" females, but not "as" a female kept me in a holding pattern in my life until my life's situation changed. Now it's eazy to admit that my inside gender is female and I do want to transition and am taking serious steps in that direction. (Actually I had been taking steps in that direction for several years now, anyway.) But, even now, I cannot just say "I am a woman", because that feels too flippant to say about myself, because of the respect I have for GG's and for those TS women who have struggled and persevered in their lives. When the time comes, that I am ready, then I will be able to use that language as well.

I tend to say "my femininity", "my feminine side", "the feminine side of me", or "my feminine aspects". Honestly, I have said for years that humans ought to share more secondary sexual characteristics, like men having breasts. It makes more sense biologically, as both parents could feed a baby, but I digress. I kind of think that my views about secondary sexual characteristics may have been an early way for me to deal with some kind of gender dysphoria. I have come to grips with the fact that I have fairly strong aspects of both the masculine (at least through social conditioning) and the feminine (seem to be getting stronger, and it feels right). I just need to find my balance point and figure out what I need to do with that information.

Edited to add:

I do know that generally speaking, my glimpses into a feminine life are more enjoyable to me than masculine life tends to be.

Anna

[Jonianne]

I have no qualms saying I am a woman. Because I know that is what I am. But I totally understand what you are saying....

Bree, I respect you as one of those TS women who have struggled and are perservering, as well as the others here, who are pre and post op.

[KellyJameson]

A state of mind exists independant of external symbols, it just "is" regardless of vessel,adornment or accoutrements. Risky to draw conclusions based on externalities and the "truth" of a person sometimes takes a life time to uncover and may not be possible because of the plasticity of the mind/reality.

Are we a product of our opinions of what we are or are our opinions an expression of who we are ?
What came first the chicken or the egg?

Does somebody with white guilt ACT more black to escape the guilt of having white skin?
Does somebody filled with hate of their skin color than try to ACT like those who have oppressed them to escape the self hate they have been injected with?

Only when we move beyond the ACT of acting do we become and what we become was always there.

As long as we are acting we than seek escape from the fears of our own inner doubts by seeking validation in others who our also seeking escape. The only escape is to let go and dance naked.