Question about Gender Identity

[AllisonK]

Don't really know if it is appropriate to ask so please don't answer if you aren't comfortable with it. But, Do you believe that childhood abuse is a contributing factor to whether someone develops a gender identity disorder or not? I'm asking because I was a victim of physical, sexual, and mental abuse at a very early age. Just wondering if that could be where some of my identity confusion is coming from.

[Melody Moore]

The short answer is "No" because it has already been clearly established that social
conditioning plays no part in Gender Identity Disorder. Transsexuals come from
all walks of life from both good loving homes and completely dysfunctional families.

Gender Identity disorder is something you are born with & is not something that you develop.

The earliest memories I have where I first became aware that I was different and had gender
identity disorder was around the age of 4-5 when I was going to kindergarten. This was the
earliest memories where I experienced high level of discomfort with my gender. I detested the
whole idea about being segregated into groups of boys and girls and did not want to be with
the boys. I can distinctly remember feeling very intimidated and afraid of the boys.

Also read the following links for a better understanding on
the development of our sexual orientations & gender identity.

http://www.shb-info.org/sexbrain.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7689007.stm

http://www.princehenrys.org/brain-gender-lab

[abigailf]

I would have to agree with Melody. The human psyche will gravitate to it's natural orientation. If you are not born trans, then it will not happen.

With that said, I do believe that dressing as a fetish for pleasure could be a learned behavior. I have no real data around this, only a theory based on some of Pavlov's studies.

[AllisonK]

Thank you. I was just wondering if that could be where some of my gender issues are stemming from. I'm not saying those things haven't affected me, just unsure if that would be where my confusion comes from. Understanding why I feel the way I do is a lot harder than than describing how I feel to me. I have finally found a therapist to talk to but I was just looking for some insight into where/how I got to where I'm at. Thanks again for the info.


I would have to agree with Melody. The human psyche will gravitate to it's natural orientation. If you are not born trans, then it will not happen.

With that said, I do believe that dressing as a fetish for pleasure could be a learned behavior. I have no real data around this, only a theory based on some of Pavlov's studies.

Well I am positive I'm not dressing for a pleasure fetish. It is more of a feeling of what feels right for me.

[abigailf]

Well I am positive I'm not dressing for a pleasure fetish. It is more of a feeling of what feels right for me.

Well then you wont be able to blame your aggressor. Not for this anyway. I know I would like the blame the world for me being trans and yet all I can really blame is genetics. It is just the way God made me.

[Hope]

Don't really know if it is appropriate to ask so please don't answer if you aren't comfortable with it. But, Do you believe that childhood abuse is a contributing factor to whether someone develops a gender identity disorder or not? I'm asking because I was a victim of physical, sexual, and mental abuse at a very early age. Just wondering if that could be where some of my identity confusion is coming from.

I think that if that were the case (and the research has been done into this - you are hardly the first person to wonder about this) then some of the other less radical treatment regimens that have been attempted with trans folks would have been found to be effective. But the ONLY thing that has ever been shown to be effective in relieving gender dysphasia in trans people is physical transition.

So, while I would certainly be open to the idea that childhood abuse might exacerbate the presentation of GID.. causes it? No.

Besides, lots of us do not have an abuse history.

[Rianna Humble]

I was just wondering if that could be where some of my gender issues are stemming from. I'm not saying those things haven't affected me, just unsure if that would be where my confusion comes from. Understanding why I feel the way I do is a lot harder than than describing how I feel to me. I have finally found a therapist to talk to but I was just looking for some insight into where/how I got to where I'm at.

I'm sorry for what you had to suffer as a child - words are not even adequate for something like this - but I have to agree with those who say that your treatment would not be a cause of your Gender Dysphoria although it is not impossible that it may have exacerbated the dysphoria.

I fully understand what you say about understanding why being harder than describing how you are feeling. Perhaps I'm lazy, but I have given up trying to seek a reason for me knowing I was born in the wrong body. As a certain popular cartoon character says "I yam what I yam".

Hopefully, with the aid of your therapist, as you manage to come to terms with the past, you can start to concentrate on where you go from here more than wondering why you arrived at this point.

Whatever the whys and wherefores,please know that you are not alone.

[Aprilrain]

Do you believe that childhood abuse is a contributing factor to whether someone develops a gender identity disorder or not?

No..................

[Frances]

If it were, tons of altar boys would be in line at Dr. Suporn's office.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I am very sorry you went through that!!

I think its vitally important for you to separate out the two things...This is very serious..

You have a complication that i have seen a number of times... you have an abuse to deal with , which is a very difficult thing..it takes great courage to get through it, you have a gender issue, and that's difficult too...and then you have the inevitable mixing up the two issues, which i hope you can avoid...all the anger, guilt and shame that can occur in both things can be really distressing...and you have absolutely nothing to feel guilty or ashamed of...

There is absolutely no evidence that gender identity can be changed in a persons life. If you can get the idea that they are related out of your head, it will help you deal with both...

[Aprilrain]

:lol::lol::lol2::heehee:
If it were, tons of altar boys would be in line at Dr. Suporn's office.

Who's to say they aren't!:heehee:

[Melody Moore]

Who's to say they aren't!:heehee:
That would also be me :D

[Kaitlyn Michele]

So a person comes on and talks about being abused and there are jokes about it?

really?

I dont know... i think I get what you guys are saying, but the OP is not looking for funny or political..some things are just not possible to joke about...

[*Vanessa*]

OP: No it isn't

There are a lot of associative things that you should try work on regarding all the abuse you speak of. Most of it will surface whether you work on it or not so it's best that you do as you can control the outcome better.

hint: We can do nothing about how life will treat us, we can however, do something about how we react.

Be a strong princess :)

[Julia_in_Pa]

I have a very immense hatred for men due to my father and the abuses that he is guilty of.

This has nothing to do with me being biologically who I am.


Julia

[AllisonK]

I am very sorry you went through that!!

I think its vitally important for you to separate out the two things...This is very serious..

You have a complication that i have seen a number of times... you have an abuse to deal with , which is a very difficult thing..it takes great courage to get through it, you have a gender issue, and that's difficult too...and then you have the inevitable mixing up the two issues, which i hope you can avoid...all the anger, guilt and shame that can occur in both things can be really distressing...and you have absolutely nothing to feel guilty or ashamed of...

There is absolutely no evidence that gender identity can be changed in a persons life. If you can get the idea that they are related out of your head, it will help you deal with both...

The hardest thing for me about the abuse has never been the shame or guilt. It's always been more about the why me, or why is it that people that are supposed to be there for you could do that to their kids. I know I'm not over the issues because it haunts me almost every day but more because I just don't know why it happened. I don't understand. I have spoken to them about it and basically told them that I just wanted an apology. I got I didn't do anything wrong. Then they told my wife they were sorry it happened. lol go figure.

Just to let everyone know. I am not ashamed of what happened to me. I was below the age of 6 for the sexual abuse and had no control over the situation. It was not my fault and I know this. I couldn't have did anything about it. It wasn't my father it was my mother and friends of hers. The physical abuse was after that and that was my father. I grew up in a very self destructive house and everyone was miserable. I was told I was a mistake and that if it wasn't for me their lives would have been better. I'm glad I'm alive. My issues today is what makes me wonder these things because I have a tendency to be moody, angry with everyone, rude, isolated, and hateful. I don't want to feel these emotions. I want to be happy and carefree. Telling my wife how I feel and about my gender issues has helped a lot. I am happier. I am going to therapy to help further. Being a "woman" is something I will never achieve and I am good with that. I do want to express myself and both sides of my gender as I don't believe I am more one than the other. What that means for me I couldn't say, but for once in my life I'm glad to get my "dirty little secret" out. Thank you Kaitlyn for being supportive. As far as separating the two things that is what I am trying to figure out now. Thanks again for all of your answers.

[Frances]

So a person comes on and talks about being abused and there are jokes about it?

really?

What makes you think that I was not abused as well?

I think there is a possibility that external influences can tip the balance when someone has a innate predisposition towards being trans. So, even though I made a funny, I actually think there may be link. Obviously a lot of people that were abused did not end up transsexuals, but some may have.

I actually was abused (mentally and physically) and I am trans, and it turned me into such a shell of a human being, that I was not able to transition for a really long time. Can I make jokes now?

[*Vanessa*]

What makes you think that I was not abused as well? Can I make jokes now?

Frances just focus on the related posts from people that don't give a crap about you... << also humour and hope you get it.. :)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Frances...what makes you think that i thought you were or were not abused?
i never said you were or weren't abused. Its not about you, its about the OP

Pls don't assume i meant anything more than i said....

You can make jokes whenever you want, regardless of what you went through in life... and i can too.
put yourself in the OP's place is all i'm saying.

[Frances]

Good luck sorting this out OP. It takes a lot courage to address this kind of stuff. Issues such as yours can sometimes cloud the picture so much that gatekeepers often need to see them resolved before opening the gates. Patterns become so intertwined that it becomes impossible to tell what caused what. Concomitance is a real thing, and one can have mental health issues and be trans.

Identifying something or the other as a probable cause of transsexuality is pointless. At the end of the day, you will still be trans. Still, improving your mental health and overcome past experiences will help you better transition. Regardless, I think some part of transsexuality is innate and some is psychological, but I mean that in no way to repudiate trans identities. So, my answer to the OP is yes and no, which is why there may be altar boys in line for SRS or not.

[AllisonK]

Well my original post was probably a little cloudy at best. I was wondering the same thing that you were mentioning Frances.

I do believe that it is something to do with the way my brain is wired. I was also just wondering if the fact that the way I was abused as a child could be a contributing factor as to why I am the way I am. I don't think it's wrong or bad because I enjoy being as I am. I was just thinking of where it all started for me. I think maybe a combination of the two is what has influenced me. For instance, I was made to care for the house and my brother. I did the cooking and cleaning while my brother went to work on cars or fishing. I didn't mind not doing those things because they didn't interest me at all. It just feels like I was put into the "traditional" female role and that is where I stayed. Just an observation of someone that really doesn't know a lot about being trans-anything.

I'm not worried about whether or not it is a contributing factor because I really don't want to change from the way I am right now. I have a great wife, a happy home, and I get to express myself in the ways that I wish without having to worry if she will ever find out anymore. Does it mean that at times I don't wish to be a woman. No, there are times that I would rather be a woman. But, there are times where it is great to be a guy and I guess it works for me.

Happy Valentines Day Everyone.

[*Vanessa*]

hi vain

As I breeze through the posts this AM I reread this thread.

As so many have mentioned already no GI isn't a learned behavior.

- However -

I do think the child that has a prevalence of GI has a greater chance of ends up in a situation of abuse. Reading your post #22 I see your present state of mind. For a person with possible GID you are of relatively good balance in my thinking. To go through life being happy is the key to a good life as we all can agree. To recognize our differences and run down the cobbled streets waving our arms usually results in more pain, as I read figuratively speaking in so many posts.

- Middle Mind -

If we can grasp middle ground and learn our way we can achieve our dream of happiness. ~ me
v.

PS: Happy Valentine's Day to you as well

[Acastina]

I think maybe a combination of the two is what has influenced me. For instance, I was made to care for the house and my brother. I did the cooking and cleaning while my brother went to work on cars or fishing. I didn't mind not doing those things because they didn't interest me at all. It just feels like I was put into the "traditional" female role and that is where I stayed.


Trying to link the two issues is necessarily conjectural, but this sounds like you might have been abused because you were perceived by your parents to be "different" (as in GID), resented for that (and thus defective and easy to abuse), and relegated to the domestic role because you didn't have an innate resistance to it, as most "real boys" do. If you didn't mind doing the "girl" stuff and had little interest in the "boy" stuff, that may be a big clue as to why the two issues intertwine in your case. You were born trans, they picked up on it and didn't understand or approve, they acted on their disapproval by abusing you and (probably, in their minds) punishing you by steering you into feminine roles that you didn't rebel against. That probably raised the rejection level again, especially if your father was physically abusive. It is not at all unusual to find fathers trying to beat the gay or queer out of sons who are just different.

All conjecture, yes; a hypothesis, not a diagnosis. Just applying logic to your OP question and your childhood traumas, which many of us here did not go through. That's why we're pretty sure the abuse didn't cause the GID. More likely the GID may have provoked the abuse.

I firmly believe, after more than three decades of having this on my mind's front burner, that we're born this way through anomalous brain development before we're born. But how we are treated by those we depend on, and ultimately by ourselves, has tremendous influence on what you make of yourself and your life having been born different. It sounds to me like you're doing quite well at overcoming something no child, "normal" or otherwise, should ever have to suffer. Blame your mom's endocrine system for the GID, but blame them for mistreating you. Don't blame yourself for either one.

[AllisonK]

I don't blame myself honestly. I don't think I was pushed into those roles because I was different. I was abused by my mother because she was a drug addict that decided kidnapping her kids and taking them across country away from any family was the right thing to do. She let her friends abuse me for a place to stay. If I thought what she did was the root cause I would also believe that I am a dog because they chained me up and fed me in a bowl on the ground. As for my father I believe he treated me that way because I just wasn't interested in working on the car or fishing and someone needed to clean the house. He never beat me because I was different. He beat me because that is the way he was raised. My parents never cared about what I wanted. I surpassed them mentally at an early age. I have always been the "smart" one and this frustrated them because I made them feel inferior. Not my fault I know but that is why he didn't have anything to do with my school or anything I was interested in. I spent a lot of time hiding the abuse I received from everyone. It was tough not being able to tell people that your mother gave you a girls name and made you dress like a girl to hide you from everyone that wanted to find you. I couldn't tell anyone that she let her friends sexually abuse me. I couldn't tell people that when I got home from school I was going to get a beating from my dad because it was Tuesday and he needed something to do. I spent every waking moment hiding who I was out of fear that my life was just what I thought it was. A waste. I no longer have that feeling. I know better. I met a wonderful woman that makes me feel the way I deserve. I was just wondering if there is a correlation between my gender issues and being forced into a feminine role at home. More of an influence on my life than a cause. Just a thought.

[Acastina]

I don't think I was pushed into those roles because I was different. ... As for my father I believe he treated me that way because I just wasn't interested in working on the car or fishing and someone needed to clean the house. He never beat me because I was different. He beat me because that is the way he was raised.

With respect, this is contradictory. My speculative point was that your lack of interest in "guy" things could have been perceived by him on a lot of levels, and the only response he'd been equipped for was anger and violence. In other words, you were "different" because you weren't interested in working on the car and so forth. Probably a semantic distinction without a difference...


It was tough not being able to tell people that your mother gave you a girls name and made you dress like a girl to hide you from everyone that wanted to find you.

This kind of overt cross-gender treatment by a mother (almost always the mothers) definitely can have some conditioning effect, especially if you were uninterested in boy things and not averse to girl things. Influence isn't causation, though, which was your OP query. I was supposed to be the girl, after two older sons, and I knew that from earliest consciousness. I was put in dresses for fun on at least a few occasions, was clearly a sissy, preferred to play with girls at 6-10 years, and made a Freudian slip as a first-grader, telling a teacher that I was "M******'s sister". Big laugh (which I didn't quite understand). It has its effects, and they imprint very young.


I spent every waking moment hiding who I was out of fear that my life was just what I thought it was. A waste. I no longer have that feeling. I know better. I met a wonderful woman that makes me feel the way I deserve. I was just wondering if there is a correlation between my gender issues and being forced into a feminine role at home. More of an influence on my life than a cause. Just a thought.

What you described was ghastly, criminal child abuse. IMHO, parents like yours should be sterilized. As I said in my first reply, you're having the last laugh by overcoming that to pursue happiness. Good on you, good on your wife, and good luck.

[meganmartin]

I am not an expert by all means; But personally i do not think that could cause you to be a cross-dresser or be confused about your gender idenity. however it could force the issue to the forefront in my opinion. In many cases i have heard from others that they have lived many years and something in their life brings this to the surface and abuse or the lack of addressing the issues of the abuse can do the same

[SupportiveSO]

Ok, as -VAIN- is my hubby, I feel the need to answer on this. I may agree that he possibly has a chemical issue beyond his CD/GID issues, however I do NOT agree that abuse cannot create these issues. Do I feel his abuse created his issues? No. However, it did exacerbate the issue to the point where he felt something was wrong with him. I don't feel that CDing or GID issues are wrong at all. But clearly society is a cruel beast, so I understand why he felt this way. Science has proven unequivocally that environment can and does shape a person. So, while I don't believe the abuse is the sole cause of -VAIN-'s issues, I do firmly believe that abuse can create these issues in people. Sure this is the whole nature vs. nurture issue that I'm describing here, but I firmly believe the nurture aspect is the bigger factor in most of our lives. If you can't believe that, look at stockholm syndrome, look at the fact that kids are way more likely to end up in prison if they grow up without a father, look at how many woman have sexual disorders because they grew up being sexually abused. Clearly most of you will disagree with me based upon your posts. However, this is my opinion and I'm just as entitled to it. I'm not being rude, I'm just answering a post here. That being said, I see most of you have done your research and are wise and have given us plenty to think about. While most of your answers have truly described -VAIN-'s situation thoroughly, I merely stand to point out that abuse can shape all types of issues people have. To say that abuse cannot cause GID issues seems false to me, but I'm not an expert so you don't have to listen to me if you don't want. ;) lol. And, -VAIN-, quit worrying about why you are this way, honey, and just be you and enjoy the ride. And, tell the "other" you, my BFF Ally, that my pedicure is in sad need of a touchup!

[Rianna Humble]

Hi SupportiveSO. Please do not think that the answers here were trying to attack -VAIN-. We genuinely want to help her figure out where she is going with all this.

I don't believe that the Nature v Nurture debate will ever be fully resolved, but past experience from this community would seem to show that the underlying cause of Gender Dysphoria is biological rather than learned behaviour. There have been many attempts by various groups to brainwash people out of being trans but they have never succeeded. There was also a doctor in the last century who tried to show that he could condition someone into being the opposite gender, but his work was later thoroughly discredited.

As several of us have stated, although we believe that -VAIN- was trans before any of the abuse (since we believe that this is a condition you are born with) that does not mean that the abuse cannot have contributed to the dysphoria. I hesitate to class the dysphoria as Gender Identity Disorder unless it is impairing -VAIN-'s ability to function, In this I am not trying to minimize the effects on her life, but if someone is able to find balance in a their gender expression, then I would not necessarily say they are suffering from a disorder.

We are who we are, but I agree with you that how we respond to that is often affected by our environment.


Clearly most of you will disagree with me based upon your posts. However, this is my opinion and I'm just as entitled to it.

Not only are you entitled to your opinion, you also have the right to have that opinion treated with respect even where we do disagree.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Because some of us are different & even abuse was there , the main reason my Mum & i left the man who was ment to be my father, age 5, has no bearing on why i am the way i am & im very weary concerning men , as Julia has said hate for men , for me its more im very disapointed men do things to us . not all of cause, & i know how it effects us more so for those of us who are women,

We must allso look at how abuse effects us & to escape that, we can turn to other ways to get away, dont discount dressing as women or liveing as woman 24 / 7 even haveing surgery ,

For most tho its there from before birth, part of how we are wired, or imprinted in our brains & make up.& remember some of us have a mind blank , i do from born till age, 5 -7 & i have no idear what happened during that time, only a few things my Mum told me,

...noeleena...

[Kaitlyn Michele]

First off, i think its great that you are supporting your husband...it's great, and its a good hint that your hubby is keeper too..
All our opinions are valid... There is no doubt "nurture" can change a person in many ways

There is a big difference between transsexuality and crossdressing..this got posted in ts forum, so i assumed that's what its about, but based on your husbands later comments it looks like he is crossdressing..

The comments here are from a transsexual perspective...

MTF transsexuals ARE women..nurture doesnt turn a man into a woman. It's just not the way it works.. In fact, the idea is quite dangerous.

There are a number of very cruel doctors out there taking advantage of parents that have transsexual children by promising to get the girl out of them...

In fact, there is a famous case with a dr Money and his patient David Reimer...David was born with ambiguous gender and dr money decided it was easier to make him a girl...dr money worked with the parents to socialize him as a girl, even though biologically he was male.. the final outcome is known... david transitioned to male and ultimately killed himself

...having been through a male life as a female...i know that he felt tortured... that's what nurture does to gender identity...

This is not settled science, just a comment on what's been observed...
Again this is just from a ts perspective...

[*Vanessa*]

- the database was cleaning house as I was attempting to post this last night, very strange indeed :)

thanks for posting SupportiveSO :)

Not often there is another side of the same coin posted in the same thread on these issues. Your right, for the most part I don't agree with what you stated here and that fine with me. I do see one point that I would rebuttal and that is your point "... cause GID issues seems false to me" I can see that maybe it would but we are not talking 'issues' we are talking science. It's about the brain and how it is wired, and not about how one thinks about the reasons why they do what they do..

Anyway, 'tis all I wanted to add.. :)

Vain - you have a loving S/O listen to what she is saying, she loves you. :)

[*Vanessa*]

@Rianna - ..."In this I am not trying to minimize the effects on her life, but if someone is able to find balance in a their gender expression, then I would not necessarily say they are suffering from a disorder."

au contraire mesome - (I'm not French but like to play) a balance of 'gender expression' to function well in society doesn't necessarily mean the person will not be suffering. In fact maintaining that balance IS the meaning of suffering. To find our own levels of numbness to mask our suffering without the use of any intoxicants is vital to be able to function in society. IMHO

Note to reader: it is not my intent to call out Rianna here. It is my intent to clarify to the OP and her S/O what is and was meant by what she said, in friendship.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

By the way, for vain and Supportive SO..

check this out...its the Dr Money/Bruce Reimer story...its quite chilling if you believe nature is a factor in your gender

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mbKXLu9qT4

there are many corresponding links

[SupportiveSO]

I get what ya'll r saying. I guess I am specifically addressing -VAIN- personally. And, 2 say her choices r chemical implies a 'cure' 2 me & I just don't agree w/ that b/c she doesn't need a 'cure' at all! I think we r all perfect however we r & whoever we r. I guess she is more confused on "what" she is than anything lol. She feels TS at times but I see her more as simply CD b/c she enjoys it, it makes her feel good, & she feels more open that way. However HE still luvs being a man at times, especially when I'm in the room! ;) lol. Thanks 4 all the help ladies! Ya'll r awesome!!! Most sites like this r not intended 2 help us SO's. In fact most seem like a hubby bashing party & that's so not what I'm looking 4. Ya'll have given me more understandability (is that a word? Lol) than I ever hoped I'd find! Thanks 4 being amazing girls <3

[SupportiveSO]

Oh & just an FYI, I'm enjoying the ego boost u ladies give me by telling -VAIN- she is so lucky :D lol

[Kaitlyn Michele]

YOu are reaching understandibility because of the understandaliciousness of all the answers!!

[Aprilrain]

I get what ya'll r saying. I guess I am specifically addressing -VAIN- personally. And, 2 say her choices r chemical implies a 'cure'

I don't see how this implys a cure. Many chemical imbalances do not have a cure and many have only had effective treatments for as little as the last 20 years or so. Science is not god.

That being said there are some who believe transsexuality is the result of abnormal timing of an otherwise normal "wash" of hormones in the fetus. What this would do in theory is affectively "turn on or off" chromesones at abnormal times thus creating the conditions in the brain for a female gender identity in an otherwise normal male body. It is not an on going chemical condition, it happened, caused a permanent change and oui la, your a transsexual.

[AllisonK]

You ladies have lost me in all the scientific talk. lol. At times I have always wondered who I am and where I belong. It has driven me to do things that I am not proud of and wish I could take back. I have ruined lives in the wake of this. I looked at a few websites that were posted here for reference and honestly I fit either none or multiple choices. The reason for this wondering where I fit in results from me being a logical thinker. I have the "if I don't see, feel, taste, hear, or touch it for myself, then it's not real syndrome". Answers are what drives me. I don't look at it as just a desire to know but a need. Lately I have felt as though my hormones are all out of wack. I cry for no reason (like right now). Even my wife has noticed. I am happy being me. I am happy with life. I just feel stressed to find an answer that honestly I don't think is there. I appreciate all of your comments. They have all been helpful in one way or another. I am at a point that I am just going to have to face the facts that who I am is who I am and no classification can be made at this time. It just feels like a piece of the puzzle is missing and it's the most important piece. :(

[SupportiveSO]

I have an answer 4 u babe. U r a wonderful person who cares more about others than self, u r a hard worker, a creative soul, & all around nice person. U r my best friend, my honey & the person that makes me complete. Names don't matter but if u need one than choose several that fit best. That's my advice

[Empress Lainie]

A moment of levity here! VAIN you stole my real name! (HA HA) I thought I was the vainest person on the site. I remind myself of Cat on the Red Dwarf!

[EnglishRose]

I remind myself of Cat on the Red Dwarf!

I love you for this reference. :)

[AllisonK]

A moment of levity here! VAIN you stole my real name! (HA HA) I thought I was the vainest person on the site. I remind myself of Cat on the Red Dwarf!

Lol. I actually use VAIN for its alternate meaning. I started using is for the definition of worthless. That is how I felt when I started using it. I was extremely depressed at the time. I'm over the depression for the most part but the name sticks.

[Kristy_K]

The only abuse I suffer as a child was when I was told I couldn't have dolls. Also when I was told I couldn't play dress up with the other girls.

Kristy