Uncomfortable Female Restroom Situation

[JaneAshland]

Has anyone used the Female restroom and had any type of uncomfortable situation? Were you noticed? Any Screams? !!!!

[Lisia]

I have not, but I know that a lot of the ladies here have. That being said, I do not remember ever reading about any visits to the ladies room going bad. You should be seeing some stories soon. :) Wish I could be of more help!

Lisia

[Jenniferathome]

Used the ladies room last night. Didn't knock, peek, ask permission. I was wearing a dress and heels, it would be odd to be in the men's room! No screams, no fainting. Just me in the stall, washing at the sink and then me fixing my lipstick and brushing my hair in front of the mirror. And if someone did complain, would they demand a penis check or something? I kinda think not.

[sissystephanie]

If you are dressed and look like a lady, you should be using the ladies restroom! Back in the days when I really did become Stephanie I used the ladies restroom all the time. I would never go into a mens restroom when dressed as a female, not would I go into a ladies restroom when dressed as a male. Using common sense is always a good thing!

[JessHaust]

At first I was very nervious, if there were girls in there waiting, I would turn around a leave. But that feeling has passed, now I gladly stand in line and chat, it's fun and all the girls have been very friendly.

[Melissa Rose]

I use the women's restroom anytime I'm out en femme and never had a bad experience. Sometimes I end up chatting with someone while waiting in line or at the sink washing up afterward.

[Jorja]

Using common sense is always a good thing!

Is that allowed these days? It seems so..... old fashioned. :)

[RenneB]

Again another trip to the w*lmart store gave rise to the appearances are deceiving. I swear this GG looked like a GM, very rotund and (of course) wearing sweats so the clothes didn't give you a clue at all. Short hair, no earrings (as if that's a clue anymore), no makeup (of course it's the mart store). As I was enmale mode and walking into the male restroom she was walking into the woman's restroom. I was about to say something, but all I did was stop and turn my head and said "ahhh...oh nevermind". She didn't break a stride and besides it's not my place to tell anyone which room to go into anyways....

My feeling is that if you have to go you have to go and you go into whatever rest room you want... or as you are presenting....

Renne.....

[Marleena]

Jane I haven't been out yet but will be soon. I would not want to go into the men's washroom dressed. If I'm read it could be real ugly, like in me getting my rear kicked by a homophobic, transphobic .lol.

I would look for a family washroom first and Ladies room second. If I get read in the ladies room they'll scream and I'll run out and pee my pants.

These are worst case scenarios.:)

[Chloe Renee]

Never had a problem, I am in there to do the same thing as them. Get in, do what I need to do, wash my hands and get out. If I need to do a quick touch up of hair or makeup so be it. I just make sure not to linger.

[Vanessa Storrs]

As I venture farther and farther from the friendly confines of the closet I have been confronted by the Restroom Problem. The few times I've used the ladies' there has been no problems, women have been very nice, smiled and said 'hi.' It is like going into a new world, there are no urinals and strange vending machines.

[NathalieX66]

Nope.
There was one situation that I might share with you. I was doing my business in a stall at a restarant, and over by the sinks I overheard about 3-4 women having a deep and long conversation about a myriad of things. If guys ever truly want to know why women spend so much time in the ladies room, I swear this is the reason.... LOL!
I didn't want to make myself obvious as a guy, but I proceeded out of my stall, combed my hair and put lip gloss on, and slithered out of there. I actually got a little fright, but I thought "what the heck "I'll act normal" .

BTW, in my state of New Jersey, we TG folk are protected by law to use the women's room.

[Kim_Bitzflick]

I have used the ladies room MANY times and NEVER had any problems. Just remember to act like you have always done it. Confidence is the best weapon against being noticed.

[S. Lisa Smith]

Hope I don't jinx myself, but I've never had a problem either. A long as you act confident nothing will happen.

[Nikki A.]

So far no problems and hope it stays that way

[JaneAshland]

So those of you that have used the ladies room (LR), while other GG's were in there, I assume that they picked up that you were a CD and were still ok? I think this is great, and I am not trying to create any problems whatsoever, but I just find it hard to believe that other GG's are ok with a guy dressed as a woman in the LR.

I have used the LR once, but I was alone. I am scared to death that going inside with other GG's would make them feel uncomfortable.

Maybe I have completely misunderstood the expected GG reaction to us using the LR. I just have this fear of walking in and a GG screaming there is a man in the LR!!!!

[GeminaRenee]

No, but I once had an uncomfortable experience in a men's room. I was at a gay bar, my first time out, and I had to use the john. I wasn't really sure which room to use, but the idea of using the ladies room made me rather uncomfortable. So, in a series of errors, I walked into the men's room and went standing up (possible, because I was wearing jeans). This was next to a urinal at which two guys were standing, fondling each other. They apparently thought I was hilarious (their situation was perfectly normal, I guess?), and proceeded to berate me for using the wrong room. I said nothing, but instead became both silently mortified and enraged. Still, I did nothing, because the only things I felt like doing or saying would have been over the line. So, I finished my business and got the hell out!

I haven't yet used a restroom in public again, but after THAT, I wouldn't think twice about using a ladies room. What a mistake THAT was!

[Jilmac]

I did something once that turned out to be a major OOPS. I was at a grocery store that was unfamiliar en drab and needed to relieve myself to the nth degree. I have gotten into the habit of sitting even when I'm totally in male mode. Well my need to relieve myself was greater than my attention span and I mistakenly went into the ladies room and headed directly to a stall. I no sooner got myself parked on the throne when I heard the door open and women's voices in the common area. Because there were two other stalls that were empty, I sat there and waited to see if one or both would use one of the empty stalls. As it turned out, niether one used a stall but just washed their hands and left. Realizing my mistake, I knew I had to make a hasty exit, so I re-fastened my pants and left without washing my hands.

When I was sure that nobody had seen my in the ladies room, I scooted into the men's room to wash my hands, all the time breathing a sigh of relief that I wasn't caught in the ladies room en drab. I think it would heve been an embarrassing situation to say the least.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Just don't ever forget which mode you are presenting in and go in the opposite RR. That really might cause a stir.

[sandra-leigh]

I have worried more than once. I haven't used the women's in many places, though, due to potential legal problems. The larger malls around have a family room. Restaurants that have single-person stalls I don't worry about.

I did have an uncomfortable experience one time in a mall. I believe I wanted to both change and use the facilities. I have used the male side there a number of times, exiting dressed as female (i.e., I walk in male, change in the cubicle and then stroll out before anyone there can get upset that I look female now). I think this particular time might have been a time that I was already dressed as female and so didn't feel comfortable walking in to the male side and being in the cubicle while anyone else who might be there got a chance to stew over what they had seen enter. Anyhow, this time I went in to the female side, and after a time, Security came around and knocked on the (outer) door and called out something or other. I answered something like, "What?" in a semi-femme voice, and they went away again. Security does not normally come around those washrooms unless they have been summoned there -- but Security probably saw me walk through the (otherwise closed) mall to get there, and might have decided Something Funny Was Going On. (It was not time to lock up either.) To this day I do not know what was really happening, but I had the impression that Security was checking up on a Man In The Woman's Washroom, and that if I had answered with my male voice or not answered then I might have gotten in to trouble. It didn't make me enthusiastic to return there.

[JenniferR771]

I had a problem when enfemme as I went into the ladies restroom. I had to wait in line! Uncomfortable. There were three probable lesbians waiting in front of me. It was a gay bar. Floor show intermission. No problem. They were nice, and I even got a compliment on my hair.
Actually it is likely they had earlier spotted me and some cd friends at a table near the stage.

[kellycan27]

I personally don't have an issue with where people do their business, but I would like to pose a question. There are always tons of threads regarding tg rights and acceptance. People want to be accepted and to be able to dress as they see fit without fear of ridicule or their personal safety. People are forever saying I am a man who happens to like to dress as a woman, and I want the right to do so. So... when it comes right down to "civil" rights would it be better to gain the right for a man dressed in women's clothing to use the ladies room, or for him to be able to use the men's room no matter how he is dressed? Is the fear of ridicule or personal injury actually skirting (pun intended) the actual issue of civil rights? History has shown that change is born of sacrifice especially in the area of civil rights. In the long run might John Q become more accepting and respectful of tg people if instead of wanting to be treated as special they want to be treated equally?

I have posted this question a number of times in these restroom thread and not one person has ever responded. I am beginning to think that it's not so much a matter of "rights" as it is a matter of "being a girl" even when the "girl" is a self proclaimed "male.

[NathalieX66]

Kelly, I'm going to assume that you, knowing you on this forum for a few years, can fly under the radar with ease. You are probably one of the lucky ones. I look like like a 40-something soccer mom when I am out public, and not Jennifer Anniston. Maybe I'm lucky, and that's cool with me because I'm in my mid 40's, and even I can fly under the radar to an extent. I can live with my imperfections.

If you were really a real girl, you would not be on this forum. ....... did I zing you?

[Sammy777]

This must be an incredible feeling of us being more of a woman when using the LR.
I am getting tingly just thinking of it.

It is statements like the bold unlined one above that make women cringe about this subject.

It is a restroom, not an amusement park http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt230/samanthaM76/open%20album/banghead.gif

[kellycan27]

Kelly, I'm going to assume that you, knowing you on this forum for a few years, can fly under the radar with ease. You are probably one of the lucky ones. I look like like a 40-something soccer mom when I am out public, and not Jennifer Anniston. Maybe I'm lucky, and that's cool with me because I'm in my mid 40's, and even I can fly under the radar to an extent. I can live with my imperfections.

If you were really a real girl, you would not be on this forum. ....... did I zing you?

As I mentioned.. it makes no difference to me where people pee. The question was in regards to what I consider to be the real issue of human rights.

[NathalieX66]

As I mentioned.. it makes no difference to me where people pee. The question was in regards to what I consider to be the real issue of human rights.

NJ recognizes it....does California?
BTW, I've never had a single negative experience yet...even with groups of chatty women, as I mentioned.

[Postopadmirer]

Good point.
Which bathroom you use probably only becomes an issue if your behavior generates a creep factor.

I was watching women just move around in public recently and I realized most of the time they look and act more like guys than not. There are the standout sexy ones but on average we are all just trying to get by.

For a woman going to the women's bathroom is no big deal. Don't make it one. Don't stand out and you will probably not have any issues.

Start to stand out and accept the risks and potential consequences that go with it.

My near term goal is to be able to dress in a way that looks totally mundane but safe to be out in public and NOT get noticed at all.

[SusanLCD]

When en femme, I use the Ladies' Room. Most say entering with confidence, accomplishing the task, and getting out will not create an issue. But, I admit to doing so with some trepidation. So, I don't dwell there; I respectfully do what I need to do, wash, maybe freshen makeup, possibly brush hair, and leave.

My larger concern is that, even though we're a small percentage of the populace, it still makes a large quantity of CDers. With any large group, there will be those on the fringe who aren't as interested in the concerns or feelings of others as they are about making a statement. (Please understand that I'm not referring to any of this forum's members.) I fear that it is only a matter of time before someone does something foolish along those lines (possibly with the intent to influence lawmakers on pending legislation) and summons the wrath of the [formerly accepting] public.

I hope I'm wrong. Maybe I worry too much.

[kellycan27]

NJ recognizes it....does California?
BTW, I've never had a single negative experience yet...even with groups of chatty women, as I mentioned.

I don't think you get what I am saying. I am not saying that men in dresses shouldn't be allowed. I am asking if the battle should be more about a man in dress using the ladies room, or a man in a dress being able to use the men's (if they so desire) room without fear no matter how they dress?

[Postopadmirer]

I get your point and it is an intriguing one.
Honestly though I bet most WANT to use the ladies room as a right of "passage".
Main stream acceptance is secondary.
I know that is the case for me.

[NathalieX66]

I don't think you get what I am saying. I am not saying that men in dresses shouldn't be allowed. I am asking if the battle should be more about a man in dress using the ladies room, or a man in a dress being able to use the men's (if they so desire) room without fear no matter how they dress?

My parents live in Baltimore County, The bathroom issue is now the top issue.. This was all because of Chrissy Polis being attacked in a McDonalds.
I',m a Marylander by heart, and by birth.
I live in NJ, and heere legal terminology is "gender expression" .
That means you don't neeed a sex change, it's about how you
present yourself as.

Anyone who wants to meet me personally to see what I'm about isn free to PM me or meet me. UI'm girl/I'm guy....I go both ways genderwise.

[Marleena]

@ Kelly I think it is easier to get legislation to use the bathroom of the gender you are dressed as.

I think a TG girl would, or could be very disruptive using the men's washroom. Less so using the ladies room.

You definitely would get noticed if you use a urinal with a dress on in the mens room.:) But seriously, if you are waiting for a stall in a mens room at a busy place your chances of getting read are then higher and chances for conflict with others are higher.

[GeminaRenee]

@ Kelly I think it is easier to get legislation to use the bathroom of the gender you are dressed as.

I think a TG girl would, or could be very disruptive using the men's washroom. Less so using the ladies room.

You definitely would get noticed if you use a urinal with a dress on in the mens room.:) But seriously, if you are waiting for a stall in a mens room at a busy place your chances of getting read are then higher and chances for conflict with others are higher.

That's not what she's asking, though. She's asking what constitutes a truer manifestation of civil rights - being able to use the ladies room because that's how you present? Or, being able to use a mens room without fear of repercussion because those are the genitals you have, and you have just as much right to use that room as the next guy? If t-folk really were on equal footing in terms of right or discrimination, there wouldn't be disruption for someone cd/tv using a men's room.

It's a very good question. I think the situation is analogous to asking: do we want a band-aid to cover a wound, or do we want surgery to fix the illness that causes it?

In all honesty, if all things were equal, I would rather use the mens room in any circumstance. I am under no illusion that I am a woman, and the idea of making women uncomfortable with my presence makes me uncomfortable in turn.

I believe I recently read about unisex bathrooms (multi-person) in Europe. Now there's an idea that would eliminate the question altogether. Of course, we are far too hung up on many things to ever process such an idea here in North America...

[Sammy777]

I live in NJ, and here legal terminology is "gender expression" .
That means you don't need a sex change, it's about how you present yourself as.

At best you are somewhat half right.

Here is the NJ LAD update from 2007 in a nutshell.

The NJLAD amendments also modify the rules pertaining to places of public accommodation, such as shopping malls and restaurants. Generally, the NJLAD prohibits owners, managers and employees of places of public accommodation from withholding or denying to any person any of the "accommodations, advantages, or privileges thereof."

Notwithstanding this general rule, the NJLAD has historically carved out an exception for single-sex facilities such as restrooms and dressing rooms - men could be denied access to women's restrooms and changing rooms, and vice versa.

Under the new amendments, places of public accommodation must admit individuals based on their gender identity or expression. Thus, a male who identifies with the female gender must be allowed to use a restroom established for women.

The NJLAD amendments define "gender identity or expression" as "having or being perceived as having a gender related identity or expression whether or not stereotypically associated with a person's assigned sex at birth."

"gender identity" means "[a] person's innate, deeply felt psychological identification as male or female, which may or may not correspond to the person's body or assigned sex at birth (meaning what sex was listed on a person's birth certificate)."

On the other hand, "gender expression" as "all external characteristics and behaviors that are socially defined as either masculine or feminine, such as dress, mannerisms, physical characteristics and speech patterns."

"Gender Identity" is NOT the same as, nor is it interchangeable with "Gender Expression".

"Gender Expression" in this context is used more to describe how one with a differing "Gender Identity" then their birth might look, act, dress, interact with people, ect. ect.

The law was amended for those fitting the definition of "Gender Identity", not for or including ones "Gender Expression".

[Sammy777]

I believe I recently read about unisex bathrooms (multi-person) in Europe. Now there's an idea that would eliminate the question altogether. Of course, we are far too hung up on many things to ever process such an idea here in North America...

France is the forerunner of the Unisex restroom.
They have had them for I believe since the advert of indoor plumbing become popular. lol
They were not pioneers in "TG" issues, but did it more to simply save space and be economical.

[busker]

Kali, I have seen unisex RRs in California so I think it's not too uncommon

[kellycan27]

That's not what she's asking, though. She's asking what constitutes a truer manifestation of civil rights - being able to use the ladies room because that's how you present? Or, being able to use a mens room without fear of repercussion because those are the genitals you have, and you have just as much right to use that room as the next guy? If t-folk really were on equal footing in terms of right or discrimination, there wouldn't be disruption for someone cd/tv using a men's room.

It's a very good question. I think the situation is analogous to asking: do we want a band-aid to cover a wound, or do we want surgery to fix the illness that causes it?

In all honesty, if all things were equal, I would rather use the mens room in any circumstance. I am under no illusion that I am a woman, and the idea of making women uncomfortable with my presence makes me uncomfortable in turn.

I believe I recently read about unisex bathrooms (multi-person) in Europe. Now there's an idea that would eliminate the question altogether. Of course, we are far too hung up on many things to ever process such an idea here in North America...


Thank you, you got it. And I am not advocating for one or the other.

[DanaR]

I've always used the womens restroom when I'm out, unless there is a family restroom available. Out at night, at a club there has never been a problem. In fact, there have some very cool discussions with females in the restroom and continued on after we walked out. The only fear that I have is if kids are around, this just scares me. There are just too many weird people that I think might think that we are going to do something to their kids. All I want to do is do my business and leave. I usually will go into the restroom with a GG, just so I have someone with me.

[CINDYO]

try and find a family or unisex washroom, that is the best way, same with change room. Many stores now have unisex facilities..

[noeleena]

Hi,

Well yes i have had two small details go on .

One was at a church sally army two women who had thier own issue's / problems did not wont to accept i at the time was a woman. so had a word with the Captain tho he allso had issue's he was not prepared to work through.

Any way i was accepted by our womens group with out ? even so i wrote two nice letters to both the Captain & his wife that i would be leaveing as i did not wont to cause a problem .

The Captains wife & 24 of the womens group did not wont me to leave & were very disapointed i was,

The next detail was at our swimming pool & i had our 9 year old grandchild with me so she would have a swim.

while in the changeing room one of the staff had been told some thing to the effect why was i in the changeing room , & she did not know i was / am a woman & as i told her i was she was taken aback . tho another matter came up so that was left in limbo.

Later on some 5 weeks i wrote a letter & gave my profile to two ofthe ladys in charge tho at the time i did not know they allready knew i was a woman so we had a lovely talk & they said they did not have any issues or concerns about who i am so the other staff would have read my profile & letter explaining about my self.

My detale is because of my masculine facial features some tho very few have a problem would think i am a male tho as they get to talk & know me theyd find out i am a woman ,

Other than that i can go any where with out any issues or people saying any thing.

...noeleena...

[Beth Mays]

Well i am sure most here WOULD prefer use the restroom for the way they are dressed.
I agree that if i were male dressed I should use men's room and female dressed woman's.
If treated as a restroom and not a peep show or cause some kind of disturbance in either I cant see how you should cause a problem..
Lets say some GG did go grab the Mall Cop...
GG. "there is a man in the women's toilet!!
Cop. "(on radio).. dispatch I have a 10-69 in Dillard's"
GG. "don't let him get away"
Cop. " what was HE doing?"
GG. "he is in a stall, taking a pee"
Cop. "umm.. seated or standing?"
GG. "seated I think, it was pretty quiet"
Cop. "did you look"
GG. "well no what do you think I am? a pervert?"
Cop. "what is he wearing?"
*** at this point backup arrives**
GG. "he has on a blue skirt and a white blouse, hose, and Baico 61 high heals!"
Cops. "did he look over/under the stall? drill a glory hole? or how did this upset you?"
GG. ..... "ummm …. what is a glory hole?"

... Anyway you can see my point....
I did find this on the net today... notice the logo over the top!
http://edinburghnapiernews.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/portable-urinals3.jpg

[GeminaRenee]

Kali, I have seen unisex RRs in California so I think it's not too uncommon

Really? California must be more advanced than I thought. I've been to a large chunk of states in the Union, and have never come across such a thing. I would think there would be religious groups up in a snit about all the pee-pees and hoo-has all in the same room without any chastity belts...

[Michelle.M]

. . . So... when it comes right down to "civil" rights would it be better to gain the right for a man dressed in women's clothing to use the ladies room, or for him to be able to use the men's room no matter how he is dressed?

Let me throw this out there - that the "standard" of separate bathrooms is a cultural paradigm that we as a society are not willing to shift. Many other countries separate the sexes for a variety of reasons, but there are varying degrees of bathroom separation in other countries.

When I lived in southern Europe there were plenty of separate bathrooms but also many places (I'm recalling small businesses, bars and restaurants) where there was only one bathroom with individual (and sometimes not even designated) stalls. Maybe this was because they didn't have the money to build multiple bathrooms? Men and women used the bathroom simultaneously, and anyone who was uncomfortable with that could wait for the loo to free up.

Now where else have I seen everyone using the same bathroom . . . ? Hmmm, I know! At everyone's home!

Obviously, men or suspected men in a bathroom is not as big a deal as some who oppose the free-to-pee movement would have us believe.

But whether we like it or not, separate bathrooms in the US is a cultural standard that is not going away anytime soon. Better to let girls and gurls and T-girls and womyn and everyone else who does not either identify or express themselves as male to use a non-male bathroom and let's all just get on with our lives.


. . . I look like like a 40-something soccer mom when I am out public, and not Jennifer Anniston. Maybe I'm lucky, and that's cool with me because I'm in my mid 40's, and even I can fly under the radar to an extent.

Same here! Sometimes I feel like I can hide in plain sight. The only people who pay any attention to me are other soccer moms, and we chat and gossip and get along just fine. It's great to fit in, isn't it?

[jaglover]

I personally don't have an issue with where people do their business, but I would like to pose a question. There are always tons of threads regarding tg rights and acceptance. People want to be accepted and to be able to dress as they see fit without fear of ridicule or their personal safety. People are forever saying I am a man who happens to like to dress as a woman, and I want the right to do so. So... when it comes right down to "civil" rights would it be better to gain the right for a man dressed in women's clothing to use the ladies room, or for him to be able to use the men's room no matter how he is dressed? Is the fear of ridicule or personal injury actually skirting (pun intended) the actual issue of civil rights? History has shown that change is born of sacrifice especially in the area of civil rights. In the long run might John Q become more accepting and respectful of tg people if instead of wanting to be treated as special they want to be treated equally?

I have posted this question a number of times in these restroom thread and not one person has ever responded. I am beginning to think that it's not so much a matter of "rights" as it is a matter of "being a girl" even when the "girl" is a self proclaimed "male.

Ah, I see where you're coming from. I suppose you'd have to ask why women would not want a man in their bathroom, or vice-versa. Presumably it has to do with the concept that a woman might do something like adjust her underwear or strip off to wash her armpits (I don't know, do I?) and wants to know that she's not going to be exposed in front of someone of the opposite sex. From that point of view it's completely wrong for a CD to use the women's room - especially since you could argue that you're concealing the fact you're male from the women in there. It works both ways. No man (well no man I know) deliberately shows off their bits while using a urinal but we've all caught an accidental flash at one time - and presumably you'd feel uncomfortable using a urinal with a woman present. Saying that you have a 'right' to invade the womens restroom because you happen to be wearing a dress is nonsense - provided you accept the idea of segregated restrooms in the first place. Surely a woman goes through the door marked 'ladies' believing the only people she's going to encounter are other women; the sign doesn't say 'anyone wearing women's clothes', after all. What would a (non-CD) man say if you told him the Gents was for everyone wearing trousers?

Michelle mentioned the bathrooms in our homes. Well, generally you're in there on your own and you certainly don't have strangers walking in while you're using it so the comparison doesn't apply.

Given that so many places like the swimming pool, the gym etc have segregated communal changing facilities and one assumes this is to preserve people's modesty I often wonder how this works for gay people. I mean, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable standing naked in a communal shower with a woman looking at me; I also wouldn't want to do so with a gay man watching me. (Actually I'm quite shy so I wouldn't use a communal shower, period.)

Until reading this thread I had no qualms about the idea that, when I one day go out in public, I would use the womens toilet. Now I'm not so sure it would be right. One day we'll be able to use the men's without fear (and we'll have world peace and an end to hunger) but in the meantime I think we should seek out unisex facilities - all the coffee shops I visit seem to have them.

[Jess Marie]

I've yet to have any trouble. If you are nervous, go to a walmart at around 11:30 pm. They are always empty then.

[JaneAshland]

Ah, I see where you're coming from. I suppose you'd have to ask why women would not want a man in their bathroom, or vice-versa. Presumably it has to do with the concept that a woman might do something like adjust her underwear or strip off to wash her armpits (I don't know, do I?) and wants to know that she's not going to be exposed in front of someone of the opposite sex. From that point of view it's completely wrong for a CD to use the women's room - especially since you could argue that you're concealing the fact you're male from the women in there. It works both ways. No man (well no man I know) deliberately shows off their bits while using a urinal but we've all caught an accidental flash at one time - and presumably you'd feel uncomfortable using a urinal with a woman present. Saying that you have a 'right' to invade the womens restroom because you happen to be wearing a dress is nonsense - provided you accept the idea of segregated restrooms in the first place. Surely a woman goes through the door marked 'ladies' believing the only people she's going to encounter are other women; the sign doesn't say 'anyone wearing women's clothes', after all. What would a (non-CD) man say if you told him the Gents was for everyone wearing trousers?.

This is EXACLY where I was headed when creating this topic. That any negative experiences would tend to support the following: That sometimes a woman is going into the ladies room, expecting only GG's, as maybe she needs to make an adjustment where she may expose herself, and now she feels uncomfortable in an environment that should be a "safe zone". Or, a man's younger daughter 10-12yr goes in sees a man dressed as a woman, somewhat traumatized, runs out to tell her dad. I know these are extreme situations.

In my opinion, when going into a ladies room, we are guests, and need to be as considerate as possible. Same would apply to FTM's using male restroom.

[StephanieDragg]

Laws vary from state to state regarding this. In Michigan I am required to use the restroom of the gender that I represent on my drivers license which of coarse is male. In many places I go it is very obvious and acceptable that I use either, mostly clubs some bars, etc...Other options are the wonderful "family " restrooms thoughtful businesses provide. If I am in a department store, pet shop, restaurant, where ever I feel it is best to ask permission before assuming they are okay with it. My feeling is that I love to express myself but not at the expense of making others extremely uncomfortable and invading their expected norm of privacy. I also hope that when people encounter me in a public setting that it was a pleasant experience for them which makes it easier for the next cd/tg person to be seen. Imagine strolling into the ladies room (making YOU feel all womanly and such) only to find a mother and younger child in there who feel somewhat violated by your presence, she hurries to inform the manager who calls the police, and now you are one of the little red dots on the sex offender map.

I feel it best to CHECK THE LAWS IN YOUR STATE before testing those boundaries, it is better to ask permission than beg forgiveness, also from my Gurl Scout Manual, "Be Prepared", I keep a jar with a lid in my vehicle, just in case.

[AnnaHeart]

that's probably because you look sooo darn cute!! ;)



I've yet to have any trouble. If you are nervous, go to a walmart at around 11:30 pm. They are always empty then.

[Lorileah]

when it comes right down to "civil" rights would it be better to gain the right for a man dressed in women's clothing to use the ladies room, or for him to be able to use the men's room no matter how he is dressed? Is the fear of ridicule or personal injury actually skirting (pun intended) the actual issue of civil rights? History has shown that change is born of sacrifice especially in the area of civil rights. In the long run might John Q become more accepting and respectful of tg people if instead of wanting to be treated as special they want to be treated equally?



My personal opinion is that restrooms are for specific functions that are best not done in the public part of the business :) So you go in, you do your thing you wash up you leave. Anything beyond that is where it gets creepy. And strange thing is I have not been in a restroom where more has occurred. So Kelly, I think that one should use a restroom that fits the needs of the moment. Males who are out on the town in any type of skirt but are still thinking of themselves as male, should use the men's room. If they want to stand then they should have that right also. If they don't then there are stalls available. Also if you enter a restroom in any mode with anything other purpose than to relieve yourself and clean up, you should not be in any restroom at all. I have been in both (as many here have) and I find that they are equally offensive in different manners. OK the same manner but different settings. Men don't usually wad up toilet paper and leave it on the floor. They don't usually urinate on a seat and not wipe it off but I have stood in 2" of urine in front of a urinal (I so wanted to throw those shoes away).

In RE: the OP. I have never had an issue with women in a women's room. In fact I have been welcomed and treated very well in front of the mirror there. I am not one to discuss daily life in the stalls so that isn't a problem. I will add the caveat that I have never entered a woman's room while presenting as a male. However I have been in many men's rooms where women were using the facilities. Hey when you gotta go you gotta go. I have yet to see a GG (or post-op) stand at urinal however.

[Cheryl T]

At best you are somewhat half right.

Here is the NJ LAD update from 2007 in a nutshell.


The law was amended for those fitting the definition of "Gender Identity", not for or including ones "Gender Expression".


Sammy,
Our support group had a lawyer do a presentation on this law soon after enactment. The area is grey at best and as he stated...until someone tests the law and the court rules it is all speculation. A precedent needs to be established before anything definitive can be stated.

That being said, I've never had an issue in the ladies room. I have had encounters with ladies and also with a mom and her young daughters. I thought for sure that would be the end of the line but as I went to use the hand dryer (her girls were playing under it letting it blow their hair around) the lady looked at me and told them..."That's enough girls, let the lady use the dryer". She gave me a smile which I returned and that was that. When I was done with it the girls went right back to playing. If there was going to be a time that would test the waters for me, that was it.
If you are courteous, just do your business, wash up and leave then no one really seems to have a problem. Linger and look out of place and that's another story.

[Miss Lisa]

Well I get the whole thing about fear so much so I have yet to venture anywhere enfemme except a few times from my front door to my car. When I do get the courage up to venture further I wouldnt think twice about which room I was going too......as common sense has to kick in at some stage..... At the end of the day a toilet is a toilet and as Kelly said why shouldn't you have the right to pick and choose??? Here's a question. We have one toilet in our house. I have just been to relieve myself...sitting down as I am enfemme...long skirt, bra a nd panties and a lovely white blouse..... So did that make it the ladies room or the men's room??? I'm guessing most people would just say it's a toilet...lol Just a little something to ponder..;)

[QUOTE=Lorileah... I have yet to see a GG (or post-op) stand at urinal however.[/QUOTE]
Hahahaha Lorileah. I fully agree with your entire post and laugh at this image above. This may change as more and more GG"s hear about the shewee.... ;)

[shawnsheila]

The first time I went into a woman's restroom was when I was in LA for a conference. My heart was racing and my breath was short but I went in. It wasn't very crowed so I went into a stall, did what i needed to do, then went to the sink to wash my hands and reapply makeup. I received a few double takes (probably because I am terrible at eye makeup) but other then that, no ladies cared. After that I have had no trouble or worries going into a bathroom in problems when I have been out en femme (sadly, it hasn't been many times though)

I just think if you act like you belong there and don't think about it then no one will notice / care... if you get nervous then people will notice you acting strange.

[Alice Torn]

Only have been in womens washrooms to do janitorial work, or because the mens room was busy and locked. So, went to the locking ladies room, after knocking, then locked it. Never tried a washroom, cding. At six foot nine in heels, male voice, i would be clocked in a millisecond.

[carhill2mn]

The simple answers are "Yes, many times", "No, never" any screams. Noticed? Sure but not in a bad way.

[BillieJoEllen]

I went shopping in another city a few years ago and had to use the women's room. (I was fully dressed) . There was a hallway with a ladie's room that I very seldom ever see anyone go down. Looked in. No one there. Good. Went in, sat down and did my business. Just as I was ready to get up and leave the door swung open and in walked about 12 teenagers. They were loud and boisterous. They were talking loudly and were in there a long time. Some used the other stalls but most of them just stood there and yakked. And yakked. And yakked. And then yakked some more. The situation was becoming very uncomfortable and a few of them made comments about the woman in that stall over there. Didn't think the situation was ever going to get over with. The3y left as quick as they came and I was glad to get out of there.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

It is statements like the bold unlined one above that make women cringe about this subject.

It is a restroom, not an amusement park http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt230/samanthaM76/open%20album/banghead.gif

Absolutely right Sammy - having read the whole of this thread I can see this from both sides of the coin.
CD'ers are like any other group in society - 99% are perfectly normal people who just happen to like wearing ladies clothes, but 1% may be pervs. It's not helping your cause at all when people say stuff like " getting tingly just thinking about it" believe me, that just sounds pervy!

[JaneAshland]

Absolutely right Sammy - having read the whole of this thread I can see this from both sides of the coin.
CD'ers are like any other group in society - 99% are perfectly normal people who just happen to like wearing ladies clothes, but 1% may be pervs. It's not helping your cause at all when people say stuff like " getting tingly just thinking about it" believe me, that just sounds pervy!

I think you have totally missed my point. And my using tingly to describe a feeling was somewhat inappropriate in hindsight. CDing is my attempt to feel like a woman. THe more things that I do, when dressed as a woman, the better I feel. If I go to a makeup counter and get a facial, I feel good. Going shopping, trying on shoes, all of it. Going to a female restroom was included, just being a woman. It's almost like using the LR was another step in that direction, as opposed to going into a mens room thereby taking away all of the female feelings. Otherwise, we should all use the mens room as that is what we really are. It was not my intent to make this into anything more or less.

I have the utmost respect for GG's when invading their territory.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

lol - no problem then - maybe you just need a little more work on your "female mindset" :^5:

[JaneAshland]

lol - no problem then - maybe you just need a little more work on your "female mindset" :^5:

actually I need more work on accurately explaining my feelings, that's the male side of me coming out!

[meganmartin]

Well yes somewhat; i was at a known lesbian and gay bar. As i stood in line there was two very young and very attractive young women. The way they carried on i could only assume they were lovers.
Well as i went into one stall to do my bizz the two young ladies went into the stall next to me. Well they started doing something. I don't think they were UN-comfortable with me being there. I don't get red easily but this made me 4 shades of red.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

actually I need more work on accurately explaining my feelings, that's the male side of me coming out!

therein lies the problem I think! so often what one thinks inside the brain doesnt come out of the mouth (or via the fingers typing) in quite the same way! and its easy to misconstrue the written word which is often the reason why forums "kick off" every so often.

[Cristi]

I always use the women's room when out. I've done so dozens and dozens of times now in everything from 'single' restrooms to huge facilities with rows of stalls.

There was only one time I got nervous and was glad I got out of the situation without any difficulty. I was using the ladies room in a government building in Boston when a mom came in with at least three kids (girls, ages maybe 3-8) in tow. I did NOT want to get caught and framed as a pervert male in a ladies room with children! *I* know nothing was going on, but who knows what kind of picture a hysterical mother could paint to a cop.

I did the only thing I could do. Basically, I stayed in the stall until they were gone. Fortunately, there was another stall for them to take turns using. They checked the door on mine a few time to see if it was occupied, but that was the worst of it.

[abigailf]

I was told once that I was in the wrong bathroom. I was dressed in drab and in the men's room at the time. Go figure.

[Jenniferathome]

So... when it comes right down to "civil" rights would it be better to gain the right for a man dressed in women's clothing to use the ladies room, or for him to be able to use the men's room no matter how he is dressed?
Kelly, I think this is a great question. I never worried about rights, just where I wold fit in best. If one day, that is a unisex bathroom, ok. But I can never envision the day when a man in a dress would be welcome in the men's room.

[kellycan27]

Kelly, I think this is a great question. I never worried about rights, just where I wold fit in best. If one day, that is a unisex bathroom, ok. But I can never envision the day when a man in a dress would be welcome in the men's room.

Being "welcome" may be a stretch lol Sure some people can pull it off, but what of those who can't or don't wish to? Shouldn't they be protected as well?

[Marleena]

That's not what she's asking, though. She's asking what constitutes a truer manifestation of civil rights - being able to use the ladies room because that's how you present? Or, being able to use a mens room without fear of repercussion because those are the genitals you have, and you have just as much right to use that room as the next guy? If t-folk really were on equal footing in terms of right or discrimination, there wouldn't be disruption for someone cd/tv using a men's room.

Kali I actually did answer Kelly's questions with examples. I cannot see TG girls getting rights to freely use the mens washroom with a dress on even if they are GM's. Men are more agressive and vocal in opposing things they don't like. That would be what they call perverts and sissies in dresses (their words) in the mens room. I think using the ladies room is much safer anyways as long as it's not abused. My female side of my brain says when I have a dress on I'm as female as I can get. My only thought is to relieve myself and get out of there.

[Betty M]

At the college I attend, I was informed the other day by security, that I can not use the men,s restroom. I must use the ladies restroom from now on.

Betty

[Samantha B L]

I used women's restrooms all the time. I've been told in more recent years many localities are creating ordinances about guys using women's restrooms. Maybe they think the guys,crossdressers or whoever are creeps who want to look under the toilet stall at a semi-nude woman or stare at and talk up the ladies or may even want to get tight with little bitty girls! That axed it for me. The idea behind these ordinances are that it's perverts who would go into the ladie's room! I try to avoid the ladies room nowadays because I don't want to get blamed for some(pardon the expression)little bullshit thing and end up on the TV news in the middle of the night or get a write up in the local paper. I don't think they'd do anything to me but those kind of things would be embarrasing enough.



If I'm out dressed it's all part and parcel of having fun with the girls and I go places where the restrooms really ain't a problem like gay bars and CD freindly places with single restrooms. If I'm going to be out for hours and hours enfemme I don't eat or drink anything until the excursion is nearly over. Gas station restrooms are OK because their grungy anyway and the attendants don't care who uses 'em. There is something I posted about going back to 2006 and 2007 when I lived in Wisconsin about 40 miles from here(I live in the twin cities area). I don't know,but I think the area around Woodbury,Stillwater,Lakeland,Maplewood is in a different county than either St.Paul or Minneapolis. I noticed several years ago there were ocaisional businesses in that area which have "3rd" restrooms. These are Unisex or something.



Maybe that's the wave of the future. After all,as Lorileah and some of the other girls have pointed out you only go to a public restroom to do one or two things,then you wash your hands and get the h--- out. I would accept "3rd party" restrooms. It's no big deal. I'll tell one more story then I'll shut up! I grew up in Southern Illinois a half hour drive from St.Louis. We were taken shopping once at Northland Shopping Center and like most guys,I was taken into the women's room with my Mom to go to the bathrom and wash my hands and stand there like gouda cheese while she wiped my face and mouth and nose. My brother was with me and I would guess I was probably 4 years old which meant the year was 1960. That women's restroom was like a piece of paradise in my already sissified mentality I was slowly developing. It had sinks and all the toilets had stalls for privacy and it was a thousand times cleaner than a guy's restroom. I think there were a couple of makeup vanities in there and there were several green patent leather easy chairs. There was lots of soap and towels and several vending machines selling stuff like toothpaste and deoderant. Unfortunately,Northland Shopping center closed down over 20 years ago. But how would you like to take a "quick releif" in a restroom like that?! Samantha

[kellycan27]

Kali I actually did answer Kelly's questions with examples. I cannot see TG girls getting rights to freely use the mens washroom with a dress on even if they are GM's. Men are more agressive and vocal in opposing things they don't like. That would be what they call perverts and sissies in dresses (their words) in the mens room. I think using the ladies room is much safer anyways as long as it's not abused. My female side of my brain says when I have a dress on I'm as female as I can get. My only thought is to relieve myself and get out of there.

I am sure it would have been "safer" for gays to stay in the closet, or for black people to sit in the back of the bus too.

[Marleena]

I am sure it would have been "safer" for gays to stay in the closet, or for black people to sit in the back of the bus too.

All I know is the time is not right, right now. At least for the men's washroom issue. I don't want to test that theory though.:)

[Jenniferathome]

I've had one basic and recurring thought on this subject. Let's imagine the worst case scenario: some woman freaks and screams and calls you out to the mall cop, hostess, her friends, whatever. What then? Is there a penis check? Doubtful. Doesn't a transexual suffer this same situation, daily? I don't mean to disparage any of the MtF transexuals here, but decades of testosterone create the male face we all recognize. If challenged, anyone could use this response if concerned,"I used to be a man." The conversation will end there.

[Amy Hepker]

Wheb dressed as a Female, I always use the Ladies ALWAYS. Never had any problems and as a matter of fact standing in line waiting to use the it made me feel like a real Lady.

[Beverley Sims]

There are now 73 reasons why we should use what. They are all essentially the same.
My variation now.
Use the one you are comfortable with.
Mens for drab.
Ladies for Dresses.
Unisex or disabled for absolute safety and common sense.
Otherwise cross your legs and get home quickly.

[darci.c]

i hear contradicting advice about which restroom to go to.

when in a more public-type place i go to the girl's room. go to the stall, close the door. nobody knows anything. maybe i pass as a tall girl, dunno...

if i'm at a club, it depends on the club. if it's a straight-type place, i'll go to the girl's room. avoid the arse-holes, their glances, snickers, comments...

if it's a CD, gay, or queen friendly place, it's guys' room. because, i have a penis. and the girls there are usually real girls and they need their own place.

i know to some it doesn't make sense, but it's kept me out of trouble for the most part.

[Babeba]

Kelly,

If you were really a real girl, you would not be on this forum. ....... did I zing you?

I only got this far on the thread so I don't know what happened after... But this pisses me off a couple of ways.

First, no one has ever questioned that I'm a real girl yet I'm still on here... Does membership here 'tarnish' me somehow? I have honestly sought advice on makeup from the wonderful ladies on here who have spent way more time on it than me.

Second, hell yes Kelly is a real girl!! Actually, scratch that. She is a Bona fide WOMAN. She has gone through hoops I can only imagine to validate that.

It's kind of like, I was born Canadian so I don't have to worry about citizenship. Someone born elsewhere, though, needs to study, take a test and go through a ceremony and hoopla to be able to say they are Canadian. At the other end we are all the same.

[Marleena]

I only got this far on the thread so I don't know what happened after... But this pisses me off a couple of ways.

First, no one has ever questioned that I'm a real girl yet I'm still on here... Does membership here 'tarnish' me somehow? I have honestly sought advice on makeup from the wonderful ladies on here who have spent way more time on it than me.

Babeba, no it does not tarnish you in any way. I enjoy your posts. This board is for everyone interested in TG issues and you contribute.:)

[ArleneRaquel]

I've never had any problems using the ladies room dressed enfemme, which I have done hundreds of times.

[Nigella]

OK folks, lets get this thread back on track, remember its about restrooms

[Marleena]

This should get us back on track. Safe2pee on Facebook.

http://www.facebook.com/safe2pee

[Michelle James]

I only use the ladies room. What else would I use? I've never had an issue and have in fact met and had conversations with other women in line. Not one time has anyone given even the hint that something was amiss. Once I came out of the stall to a young mother breast feeding her child on the bench that was in there. She smiled at me and I smiled back. I felt a little uncomfortable for her but she was OK.

[Sammy777]

But I can never envision the day when a man in a dress would be welcome in the men's room.

I cannot see TG girls getting rights to freely use the mens washroom with a dress on even if they are GM's. Men are more agressive and vocal in opposing things they don't like.

when in a more public-type place i go to the girl's room.
if i'm at a club, it depends on the club. if it's a straight-type place, i'll go to the girl's room.
if it's a CD, gay, or queen friendly place, it's guys' room. because, i have a penis. and the girls there are usually real girls and they need their own place.

Jennifer - Since when does a MAN [regardless of how he is dressed] need an invitation to enter the MEN'S room?

Marleena - TG girls who are GM do not need new laws or rights to use the men's room.
It sounds more like you wish to not ruffle the feathers of fellow men so it's off the ladies room.

Darci - Your "reasoning" behind choosing which restroom to use are by far the strangest I've seen.
So any public place it's the ladies room.
Any straight-type club it's the ladies room.
But if it's a CD, gay, or queen friendly place, it's the men's room.
Because the real girls there need their own place.

So what about all the other real girls everywhere else you go?
Are they not worthy of their own place?
Or are girls only worthy of their own place and privacy when it suits you?

A man needs no invite, no special law to use the men's room. He has had that right since birth.
Just seems you guys find it easier to ruffle the feathers of women and push their feelings aside when ever it suits you then to disrupt the flow and sanctity of the men's room.

[Marleena]

@ Sammy I have not use a ladies washroom so relax.:) I simply answered a hypothetical question posed by Kelly about using the mens washroom and changing laws pertaining to it.

[Sammy777]

Marleena
Nothing I say or do is going to change what restroom you use.

All I am saying is that why would a man in a dress need a law to allow him use of the mens room he already has a birthright to use.

[sexygal]

Was dressed many years ago and had to fight the urge, the urge won and I just went to the Ladies room and did my business. As I was leaving, two women came in and walked right past me and never said a word. They had to notice me because of the tight hallway just outside the door.

[Marleena]

Marleena


All I am saying is that why would a man in a dress need a law to allow him use of the mens room he already has a birthright to use.

Then you should tell Kelly this, not me. She posed the question. I answered her with my thoughts.

I don't care who uses what bathroom either be it a CD/TG/TS. They should go to the washroom they identify as and are dressed as. That is what is being fought for. None of this is an easy answer as somebody will always have issues with transgendered people and washrooms.

[Daphne Renee]

Its not that a man in a dress wouldnt have the legal right to use the mens restroom. He certainly does. I dont think many cd/ts are trying to upset anyone. However its not a perfect world. Using the mens room dressed could indeed cause problems.

[Janet Bern]

I have always used the ladies room when dressed as a woman. I am over 6'
No one ever paid attention to me. Not a problem

[PretzelGirl]

This reminds me of a story from a year ago. I was in Vegas with two dear friends, all of us dressed. We all had the urge so went looking for a family-type restroom. While passing yet another pairing of male-female restrooms, one of my friends said to heck with it and went in the men's room. I couldn't wait and went in the ladies room. The third went on and found a family restroom. Did any of us have problems? Nope. Maybe Vegas helped that some, but still....

[darci.c]

...i see more ruffled feathers on this forum than i do in real life restrooms...

[HannahF6]

When I am outdoors en femme and need a rest-room I always use the femme rest-room what else would one use? I've never run into problems doing this, but anticipate if I'd gone into the men's room in a dress I'd be asking for trouble. Yes, I've run into women in the wash-rooms and this has never been a problem, people of both genders tend to keep to themselves when doing private business.

Hannah

[Lyric]

I've never had a problem with going to the ladies room either, but when I've been uncertain I've just sought out a one holer with a lockable door-- like at a gas station or a small store.

This thread made be wonder if my idol, androgynous supermodel Andrej Pejic, goes to the ladies room. Here's a quote I found:


Oh, going to the ladies room is something I always do, because when I go to gents room, people look at me with a look of “get out.” I just do not want to have to explain what is happening every time I go pee [laughs].

http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy70/ugly_misha/Andrej/110753289476itemlarge.jpg

[Veronnie2]

I also have never had any problem with using a ladies restroom. I am usually dressed femme, and use the stall just like a real woman. I do not have any problems with freshening up my make-up or brushing my hair at the sink and mirror area. After all, if we look and feel like a woman...we are one...Veronnie2

[Dannigirl]

That's not what she's asking, though. She's asking what constitutes a truer manifestation of civil rights - being able to use the ladies room because that's how you present? Or, being able to use a mens room without fear of repercussion because those are the genitals you have, and you have just as much right to use that room as the next guy? If t-folk really were on equal footing in terms of right or discrimination, there wouldn't be disruption for someone cd/tv using a men's room.

It's a very good question. I think the situation is analogous to asking: do we want a band-aid to cover a wound, or do we want surgery to fix the illness that causes it?

In all honesty, if all things were equal, I would rather use the mens room in any circumstance. I am under no illusion that I am a woman, and the idea of making women uncomfortable with my presence makes me uncomfortable in turn.

I believe I recently read about unisex bathrooms (multi-person) in Europe. Now there's an idea that would eliminate the question altogether. Of course, we are far too hung up on many things to ever process such an idea here in North America...


Where I live in Canada we have a couple of University campuses that have "gender neutral" designation. Our human rights code also protects us (in words). I always try to find a "family washroom" because as many have said I don't want to upset any ladies. I know that I have been using the mens room (en drab) before and a lady has walked in and I was at the urinal and felt kinda strange so I figure that they would feel the same way about me being in the ladies room, in a dress or what have you makes no difference. Have I used the ladies room before ? Sure, but only because I would have wet my pants and that would have been more embarrassing then going into the ladies room. Is a tough topic, so many different opinions (like pretty much all the threads on here) it is great to see how different everybody thinks.

[inori]

This should get us back on track. Safe2pee on Facebook.

http://www.facebook.com/safe2pee

oh Wow I never knew there were so many Gender Neutral in the west end vancouver area :P

[Paulette]

In all of the years I have dressed I have always used the ladies room when out and I have never had one bad thing said about it. I do what every other woman is doing go in, go to the bathroom and wash my hands. I sometimes will re-apply lipstick if it just after dinner and fix my hair and then leave just like every other woman in the restroom. I have entered the restroom to the famous line an just stood quietly an waited my turn. I have observed the other women as they have left the stall and made a mental note to just do the same exact things that they did. Remember that if you look like a duck and quack like a duck most folks will think you are a duck unless you do something which says you are a donkey.

When out keep your head up and be ready to smile and you will do just fine. I am always prepared just in case someone were to ask if I was a man, to say pardon me? Since it has never happened I guess I am blending.

[linda allen]

.......... I am always prepared just in case someone were to ask if I was a man, to say pardon me? Since it has never happened I guess I am blending.

That sounds like a good answer. Mine was going to be "Does it matter?", but I think I'll try yours first and keep mine as a backup.

[Jazzygurlcruz]

Ive never had a problem Using the ladies room. I've always wondered what I'd do if I was caught though.

[Michelia]

It is very reassuring there are so many on this thread that have never had problems. But going to the bathroom is still one of those things I have a problem with. Thanks to the originator of this thread to give me an opportunity to learn a bit more about this.

I have been in many women's bathrooms but there are some that give me lots of trepidation. Some I will not go in at all and some I will open the door furtively after standing around a while to make sure everyone is out. If I see a clear shot then I head in.

The main places I have problems with are:

- Cinemas (where there are a lot of kids with their parents)...I stand around until I get the chance and dart in...but I am so nervous that I am looking suspicious hanging around.

- Large concert halls like the opera, the symphony or ballet. These are tough because they get packed and the only time to go is during intermission. If I must go I run out as quickly as I can as the first half ends. One day I am going to trip
and fall flat on my face.

- Large nightclubs where there are a lot of people and alcohol flowing. Typically might have live music and people dancing too. There often is a line waiting to get in the bathroom. Often, I will decide not to go enfemme because of the bathroom situation. It kills me. Sometimes I have had to go outside and find a place to pee. Not alwasy the safest thing to do.

-Large restarants where there are lots of different people and big bathrooms. A couple of times I have gone back to my car and peed in a bottle or something. Again, kind of crude and most unladylike.

-Malls where there are no family rooms. I have never been in one of these. It scares the daylights out of me.

My questions:

Has anyone every been to bathrooms in like these specifically and how did you handle it or how did it go?

Have you ever walked up to a gg and asked her to scope the bathroom for you ahead of you entering it?

Have you waited for a gg to come to the bathroom so you can approach her and ask her if she will go in with you for cover?

Are there any other tricks I am missing I did not ask about?

This is a big deal to me because I do like to go out quite a bit. I also date an occasional guy here and there and of course I need to be enfemme regardless. Sometimes I avoid the date entirely because of the bathroom issue. But most of the
time I am by myself and feel quite vulnerable regarding this bathroom thing.

So if anyone can help...please do so.

Thanks

[AllieSF]

Michelia, I think that you should not ask a complete stranger (women) to accompany you into the women's restroom or to scope it out for you. That is just an admission to that woman that you are not confident enough to use it in the first place. I think you could have more problems doing that than just going in and doing your business and then leaving. I have been to plays and waited in line with the other ladies and a couple of times with someone's daughter to use the facilities with no subsequent issues. I have not done it in other States, so my experience is limited to liberal and pretty open California. One thing I do while waiting in line, is to look others directly in eye as they do to you and others. That shows your confidence and that you are not ashamed or worried to be where you are at at that moment and that you have the right to be there, regardless of what the laws may say. Looking down or obviously avoiding eye contact may be an opening for someone to complain when they may not otherwise do so. Good luck.

[Michelia]

Thanks Allie, for your input. I guess I am a chicken on this one.

I think your advice is good advice. I am not one to lower my sight or avoid eye contact though. I am pretty friendly. And I think I am fairly confident. This is just one of those things that puts a damper on my going out to some of the places I enjoy the most. Obviously, I may have to try to just do it and do it like you say eventually and see if I can get over this hump. Gee... is there no better way?

[kimmy p]

I have been toasted for my unpopular views on this subject, it's not in line with others here, sorry. I can only offer you one account of this situation. I was at a get together of re-enactors, and a couple of our sisters were there. hey made honest attempts to pass, but they didn't. When they started to use the ladies room the GG's started complaining loud and long. They did not want men in the ladies room no matter what they were dressed like. The organizers eventually designated one restroom as gender neutral. Please don't flame me, but after that I think it is best to find a family restroom.

[EllieOPKS]

Just because it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck doesn't necessarily mean its a duck. To each their own but really if you are out and about with your own family and your daughter tells you there is a guy in the women's room, are you comfortable with thinking it's probably just a good and upstanding cross dresser like me and we should exercise tolerance or would you take a defensive position that your daughters privacy was being violated? Don't forget, no one really knows you. You could truly be the kindest person on earth but nobody knows that. Why in the world would you put yourself in a position to be confronted?

[Nikki A.]

Ellie & Kimmie I understand your point of view, but if it walks & quacks like a duck why not use the duck room. Wouldn't it be a bigger distraction to use the mens room. True, if there is a private bathroom or one that is more out of the way I will use that one.
I don't dawdle if there are other women in there. I do my business and go. Like other have said in Europe there are unisex bathrooms that are used by both sexes.

[NathalieX66]

I've had nice exchanges in a women's restroom, dressed as woman, butn I can't say if my situation sets the precedent for all. I'm going to bet that it's a coin toss. ....some good/ some bad.

[HannahF6]

Like just about everyone else replying on this thread. I've used women's restrooms many times while out en femme and have never had an experience that was ever a moment for concern. It has worked out well 100% of the time. I have NEVER tried using a men's room while appearing as a woman and suspect that would be guaranteed to work out badly.

Hannah