How do you handle Straight Men?

[Leeiah]

In my CDing adventures out around town it seems like all I ever manage to do is attract straight men. Now I am bi curious but haven't been with a guy yet but if I was I had always assumed that it would be with a guy who already has experience in that area so to speak? When a person comes up to me and they find out who I am and they are still interested it confuses me because they say they aren't gay or bi or anything like that. It actually turns me away, not really sure how to go about handling that in those situations. If you are interested but you aren't bi or gay or anything like that but you are still interested then what am I suppose to do or say to that?

And even if you did date them etc and or change there perceptions etc would you feel bad about that? Not sure how I would feel if I would change ones sexuality interests if it wasn't already like that. I have 2 offers from 2 straight men pretty much and they seem serious enough not only that but they seem stubborn they wont give up the pursuit, I just do not personally know if its right? Werid to say I know. Advice please? Not sure if this thread goes here, if it doesn't feel free to move it.

[JessHaust]

Leeiah, I'm neither gay or courious, but the way you handle anyone interested in you is dependent on how you feel about them. If you are not interested and they persue, it's wrong, straight, bi or gay, it's still wrong. But if you are interested, and they are interested, that's all that matters, see where it goes.
BTW, heard you had a good shopping day reciently, congrats! (we have a friend in common)

[Sophie_C]

Personally, I think when it comes to relationships, labels do more bad than good.

For what I've understood, few REAL relationships between crossdresers and men ever happen, whatever you call it. Sure, hookups, and things on the DL happen all the time, but real things with depth, even simple things like going out in public, spending time together, etc, almost never happen. Now, if you transition fully (including SRS) and pass well, it seems to be completely different, but simple crossdressing is miles away from that.

And, about "changing perceptions", don't forget that while typical gay relationships are pretty much accepted these days, transgendered ones are barely starting to cross that threshold, and crossdressing come far after that. That means that a man wanting to have a real relationship with you has to be either from an extraordinarily open-minded set of family and friends or not give a care about taking a ton of hate, hate that he can all avoid by simply dating a GG tomorrow. And, this they all know, regardless of how great you are, which is why they almost always just end up being hook ups / one night stands / things like that.

I'd bet a billion dollars they just want to hook up, and hook up "discreetly". If that's what you're looking for, great, but if not, beware...

[DanaR]

This has always been easy for me, I'm just not into guys.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Based on the experience of others dealing with 'straight' men who chase TV/TS, they may be interested in you in private, but they probably won't be interested in making you a part of their everyday lives, introduce you to their friends, family etc. If you are looking for a real relationship, you probably won't find it with those guys... plausible, but unlikely.

[Genifer Teal]

Buy me a drink - now go away! lol For me it depends on the guy. Most I won't give the time of day. There is so much guys don't get about women. I have learned that in general, they don't bite, and some are actually ok to talk to. Most will leave you alone if you tell them you are not interested. If not, call security and be sure to have someone walk you to your car - if you are at a club or bar. I admit that in the beginning, there were a few persistent men that made me feel uneasy. Having a guy buy you a drink takes some getting used to - especially if you know you are not going to do anything with him. Just don't let him buy you drinks all night long. That's not polite and it might be harder to run away.

My first night out (that counted for much) I had a guy hit on me the whole time. I kept trying to get rid of him and there he was again. At the time it really messed with my mind and question why I was dressing. It scared me back into the closet for over a year. It takes a while to find a comfort level dealing with guys. If you go to clubs you will need to learn. Don't let them scare you like I was back then.

Gen

[CINDYO]

if a guy says he is "straight" knows you are a guy dressed in womens clothing, and is interested.... bottom line is.... HE is not straight,just playing with your head, or he has alternate motives......a truly straight guy in NOT insterest in men and that is the bottom line...

[monalisa]

Just tell them they are not straight if they are hitting on you. Then it is up to you to decide whether you want them or not. It is not love but purely lust on their part and would most likely be a 1 night stand with no breakfast in bed in the morning.

[Stephenie S]

Well CINDYO has this absolutely right, no question at all.

Listen dear, if a "straight" guy finds out your status and still maintains he is interested in you, then HE IS NOT STRAIGHT!

S

[sherri]

When an "admirer" says he's straight, first and foremost he probably means he's not attracted to manly men; in other words, he does not perceive himself as gay the way gays are gay, if you know what I mean. This distinction is probably important to him for several reasons, not the least of which is the stigma attached to being gay in a lot of guys' minds, which is why they can be rather touchy about it. But here's another interesting factoid to further muddy the water: ime, about 75% of admirers harbor some sort of crossdressing desires of their own, even if it's just a panty fetish. So it quickly becomes obvious that the term "straight" does not apply, but imo there's no point in pressing the issue. It's just semantics that mean nothing to me.

Btw, it's also interesting to note that gays tend to question the gayness of a guy who is interested in TGs. To them, the whole point is men being attracted to men, so no "true" gay would be attracted to a overtly feminized male. They would probably say a TG admirer is more straight than gay.

As for Leeiah's worry about leading a guy down the path to gayness, I'd say she can relax on that point. As others have posted, odds are 98% the guys just wanna take a short stroll on the wild side and once they've been laid, that will be about the end of it. And even if they discover they have a taste for it, you really haven't changed anything that wasn't in them already. Again, the worrying over labels is fairly ridiculous.

[Aprilrain]

Guys who hookup with CDs are not straight! As has been said it's not likely to go beyond a hook up. Think about it, what's goin to happen when you're back in dude mode?

It's pretty damn hard finding a decent man period, being TS makes it 10 times harder, I can't imagine a CD stands a chance.

[Badtranny]

So a whole load of straight guys answered the question about how to deal with straight guys? lol

Leeiah, don't worry about it. These boys want to walk on the wild side and they will never admit to being anything other than straight. It's cool. I've had a "straight" guy actually teach me a thing or two, so who cares what they think of themselves? All I care about is what YOU think of them. A "virgin" sounds like fun to me. Wouldn't you love to be the first experience for a macho straight man?

I say go for it.

[Taylermade]

Hmm, yeah I think what Melissa stated is interesting.

I understand that some gurls do not like attention from guys. I think it can be akwared. I was in that boat once when I had first gone out. However, I also got used to it and now find it flattering if anything. Obviously there is good attention (such as flirting, nice compliments, and not being agressive) and there is bad attention (such as over aggressiveness and pestering) I know of a TS who dates guys and she does consider them straight. I think it is just how people view it. Labels do suck at times but it is what it is.

Did anyone ever think that perhaps they happen to like the fem appearance as opposed to what is between the legs? It is tough to decipher this no doubt. But there are just some guys who are admirers and respect how pretty a guy can make himself be when dressed. Sometimes I do not understand it either. But hey we are guys too who happen to dress up. I like the attention because it makes me feel like I am doing something correct when I dress. But I do understand both viewpoints.

[Cheryl T]

While I am not interested or desirous of the attention of a man....it seems my wedding ring does the trick.

[ReineD]

When a person comes up to me and they find out who I am and they are still interested it confuses me because they say they aren't gay or bi or anything like that.

That's because they're just into it for the sex. If you are into just that as well and no one will be surprised over anyone else's anatomy, then go for it and don't feel guilty. You can all pretend you are a hetero couple. But deep down, they do know that you are not a GG and this is what forms the basis of their attraction.

[Matia]

Philosophically, we are all fascinated by a feminine image of ourselves and we do the best to appear as feminine as it gets, we hide our sex with tape clothing etc and we wan to be as passable as it gets, for many our own image is very sexual and we dont want to be judged for what we do or how we were born. Some girls here take offense, if they are called 'guys' why we dont give this liberty to the guys interested in our image, that he is in fact interested in the way we present ourselves, as feminine as we are capable of? If the attraction is bigger than physical parameters we posses, i can understand that the guy will feel straight even if under the whole styling there is a born boy inside. I believe that nobody is 100% straight we are drown to certain sex characteristics more or less one way or another. We of all are best aware that sexuality is far from black and white. I perceive myself as a lesbian in Matia mode, but if my girl partner still saw me and treated me as a guy, slme of the magic would get lost. Its the same magic for the other people too though.

[Marleena]

Interesting topic Leeiah!

I don't have any experience in any of this but it seems these "straight" men are using TG girls for gay sex. They must assume since we present as females that it is not gay sex in their books.lol.

[joannemarie barker]

So a whole load of straight guys answered the question about how to deal with straight guys? lol

Leeiah, don't worry about it. These boys want to walk on the wild side and they will never admit to being anything other than straight. It's cool. I've had a "straight" guy actually teach me a thing or two, so who cares what they think of themselves? All I care about is what YOU think of them. A "virgin" sounds like fun to me. Wouldn't you love to be the first experience for a macho straight man?

I say go for it.


Hehehe this :) sounds pretty good to me :D

[Girl]

A "virgin" sounds like fun to me. Wouldn't you love to be the first experience for a macho straight man?

Oh yes, yes, yes!!!!! :o

[stacycoral]

Interesting topic Leeiah!

I don't have any experience in any of this but it seems these "straight" men are using TG girls for gay sex. They must assume since we present as females that it is not gay sex in their books.lol.

I think Marleena makes sense, they look like a girl, so i can be gay, the girls here have given you good thoughts to think about.

[StevieTV]

I label myself as a gay crossdresser (TG most likely); however, if I a straight guy approached me I would first feel flattered. I would then rely on my feelings to tell me if I was attracted to him, both mentally and physically. Nothing would be better than finding a partner that I'm attracted to and that finds me attractive and interesting as well.

[Lorileah]

That's because they're just into it for the sex. and also read that hey won't want to do any of the work, they want you to "do" them and then they are gone like a summer breeze. Thus they are still "straight" in their own minds because they didn't do anything

[Leana]

"All you do is attract straight men"?!! :p

If you only knew the trouble some of us go through to get one of them to approach us! :)) Seriously, most men are just thinking "below the waist" and when they meet attractive girls like us it doesn't really matter to them about labels, unless their friends find out!!

[Kate Simmons]

Very carefully Hon. The poor dears' egos are so fragile, ya know?:battingeyelashes::)

[Aprilrain]

I know of a TS who dates guys and she does consider them straight. I think it is just how people view it

There is a big difference between a TS and a CD. A transsexual woman is well a woman! CDs by their own admission are NOT woman but rather men dressed as woman. I think if a gay or bi CD wants a BF that's great go get one, but you will probably need to find a man who is ok with the fact that you are a man also, In other words gay. otherwise these so called "straight" men are just looking for a hook up.

I'm TS and I have a BF we date, like go to movies, dinner the theater. We get dressed up and go out for special occasions like valentines day (aww he bought me this gold plated rose and a a really sweet card!) I consider us a heterosexual couple he's really not interested in my junk which is fine with me. I asked him why he wanted to date a girl like me and he said he wants a woman who can think like a guy. Well I know I don't think like a man but I can understand where a guy is coming from in a way no GG can. Just like there are aspects of being a GG that I will never understand.

[docrobbysherry]

I believe they're called, "CD Admirers"!

[Bree-asaurus]

In my CDing adventures out around town it seems like all I ever manage to do is attract straight men. Now I am bi curious but haven't been with a guy yet but if I was I had always assumed that it would be with a guy who already has experience in that area so to speak? When a person comes up to me and they find out who I am and they are still interested it confuses me because they say they aren't gay or bi or anything like that. It actually turns me away, not really sure how to go about handling that in those situations. If you are interested but you aren't bi or gay or anything like that but you are still interested then what am I suppose to do or say to that?

And even if you did date them etc and or change there perceptions etc would you feel bad about that? Not sure how I would feel if I would change ones sexuality interests if it wasn't already like that. I have 2 offers from 2 straight men pretty much and they seem serious enough not only that but they seem stubborn they wont give up the pursuit, I just do not personally know if its right? Werid to say I know. Advice please? Not sure if this thread goes here, if it doesn't feel free to move it.

Be careful with guys who are attracted to you in girl-mode and say they aren't gay or bi. There is a lot of repression going on there and that only leads to disaster.

[ReineD]

Be careful with guys who are attracted to you in girl-mode and say they aren't gay or bi. There is a lot of repression going on there and that only leads to disaster.

I guess it's time to post a link to Alice in Genderland again: http://aliceingenderland.com/Manhunt.html

Excerpt:

Each admirer is a bird unable to fly. Maybe he’s flown before? Maybe he’ll develop tail feathers of his own and shake them around in style in the future? But for now he’s limited by something. And that same thing that keeps him from being a terribly happening woman may be what’s keeping him from being an especially happening man.

That’s why admirers tend to be a heavier and older bunch of men. It would make sense if they were also taller, though I haven’t seen that near as much as I’d like. Some may have their wings clipped by lack of a steady job, car, or apartment. Many are married and unable to get out except under the rarest of circumstances. Some may be constrained by psychological baggage, religious guilt, or macho ethnic tradition.

But the problem for a man-loving TG like me is that once one of these fellows shakes off his shackles and sheds some pounds he may not emerge as a hot, happening man on the scene; he may just show up next week in a dress. “Darn,” I’ve often complained, “the best men here tonight are women.”

So, with all that being said, maybe it’s better to leave your local tranny night behind and look for straight men at a nearby singles bar. That’s all well and good but unless you’re 5’ 6” and Filipino or a slender white girl with amazing FFS, you’re not going to fool anybody. And if you think the men you reel in are pure, straight men with no clue, then you’re only fooling yourself—pleasant as that may be.

[seanmuscle]

I guess it's time to post a link to Alice in Genderland again: http://aliceingenderland.com/Manhunt.html

Excerpt:

Rennee straight men are attracted to femininity. Not genitalia. A man loving a woman. Simple as that.

[Leyna]

FWIW, I think "gay" and "straight" are made up ideas drilled into us by a repressive society. The day when we realize that we are attracted to people for who they are, how they act and how they treat us (instead of by genital category) will be a glorious day.

Poor guy, he's been telling himself all his life that he's straight, and now he finds someone that doesn't fit the standard category type. So maybe he decides 'what the hell' and breaks thru some of those societal walls. Good for him! But people don't change over night, and you will be the canvas onto which he will work out his existential crisis. Do you really want that?

[Bree-asaurus]

Rennee straight men are attracted to femininity. Not genitalia. A man loving a woman. Simple as that.

I think a quick street corner poll will pretty much destroy that argument. Very few straight men will be open minded enough to consider being with a transexual MTF. Even less would consider a crossdresser.

[darci.c]

well honestly i just assess how i feel about him. it goes one way or another from there.
...that make me "gay?" or him?
whatever.
get over it. it's not a big deal.


i consider myself lucky for my overall shape (thin), but if i get unwelcome come-ons, the guy switch is thrown and then most guys back off when they realize they're not getting what they're after without a serious threat to their health and well-being.

this awareness has made me popular with girls... they like feeling safe and protected, and being a CD is an instant flag that says you're not hiding much. so i have a lot of girl friends... and being mostly straight, this is to my liking =)

[Linda St. John]

Leighann ...bad girl ! ...but you"re right ...it does sort things out pretty quickly and is a great answer to the OPs original question :o:battingeyelashes:

[Matia]

I think a quick street corner poll will pretty much destroy that argument. Very few straight men will be open minded enough to consider being with a transexual MTF. Even less would consider a crossdresser.

not sure the quantity of people answering would make their statement true.. much of what we do or discuss here is binded with society and how it perceives sex / genders. I think the biggest crap in this area is a result of catholic church, you can see this if you compare our culture and approach to sex and differences to say japan or thailand. The fact that there might be certain amount of bi sexuality in every person would be hardly accepted in society that is ruled by men, and where unfortunately femininty is often seen as weakness. The question is, -why- would straight men reject such option. For example, in ancient rome, gay sex was a pretty regular thing, and having a "pretty boy" slaves was kind of normal for the roman elity. It was actually one of the fast ways how to get to politics, to become a lover of an important person in roman society. Sexuality is very much binded with culture social behaviour and politics, most of closeted cds here do it because they are worried they might loose family or work because it's a stigma. Still we can already see how much the society changed even in last 10-20 years, and who knows what kind of acceptance the various sexualities will have in 20 years time.

Hyphotetically , we might reach the point where medically we would be able to change gender in a way that it will be fully functional, what would this cause to the gender confusion ? (dont want to offend anyone , just trying to show a different perspective)

[Beverley Sims]

I have no desire to handle any men, now women......

[Badtranny]

Let's not get too far afield. The OP wants to get her groove on, but she's concerned about rockin' the world of some poor straight guy to the extent that he no longer wants real women.

My advice to her, is simply go girl, and let the chips fall where they may. If he's interested in a CD gal, than he's already got desires, and if the experience wakes him up and he becomes openly bi or gay and no longer a 'phobic asshole on the DL, then we all win.

Let's all go out and convert a few straight dudes!

[joannemarie barker]

Hahaha you are funny BT but I agree 100% :D

[Jenniferathome]

Leeiah,

If you are attracting men, and they know you are a crossdresser, they are not straight. Straight men have no interest in a sexual or romantic relationship with another man. Period. You can not "change" a straight man any more than one can change a gay man to be straight. We are born the way we are, it's genetic. If someone is chasing you and you want that, then fear not, you have changed nothing.


Rennee straight men are attracted to femininity. Not genitalia. A man loving a woman. Simple as that.
No Sean, straight men are attracted to women. Gay men are attracted to men. It's real simple. Genetics drive everything. There re many women who re not feminine yet they marry MEN and that man was attracted to a women whom fit his desires, and visa versa

[ReineD]

Let's not get too far afield. The OP wants to get her groove on, but she's concerned about rockin' the world of some poor straight guy to the extent that he no longer wants real women.

Let's all go out and convert a few straight dudes!

LOL! This reminds me of the sitcom, Friends, when Ross was all discouraged because he produced the opposite effect. After being married to him, his ex wife turned lesbian and partnered up with a woman. :p


... and Jenniferathome, good answer! :D

[joannemarie barker]

I do always wonder about the picture and video gallery section.do others wonder why when a really attractive cd posts pictures there are pages of replies and when a not so attractive cd posts there aren't very many regardless of the clothes on show.just sayin :)

[ArleneRaquel]

If the man is respectful and seems to be on the level, I'll talk, and perhaps share a drink with him, if we have meet a bar or lounge, if I feel he is just a dude looking for you know what I'll turn away and ignore the guy. I always suspect men who want to chat up an old babe like moi.

[seanmuscle]

not sure the quantity of people answering would make their statement true.. much of what we do or discuss here is binded with society and how it perceives sex / genders. I think the biggest crap in this area is a result of catholic church, you can see this if you compare our culture and approach to sex and differences to say japan or thailand. The fact that there might be certain amount of bi sexuality in every person would be hardly accepted in society that is ruled by men, and where unfortunately femininty is often seen as weakness. The question is, -why- would straight men reject such option. For example, in ancient rome, gay sex was a pretty regular thing, and having a "pretty boy" slaves was kind of normal for the roman elity. It was actually one of the fast ways how to get to politics, to become a lover of an important person in roman society. Sexuality is very much binded with culture social behaviour and politics, most of closeted cds here do it because they are worried they might loose family or work because it's a stigma. Still we can already see how much the society changed even in last 10-20 years, and who knows what kind of acceptance the various sexualities will have in 20 years time.

Hyphotetically , we might reach the point where medically we would be able to change gender in a way that it will be fully functional, what would this cause to the gender confusion ? (dont want to offend anyone , just trying to show a different perspective)

I agree. Polls do not reflect what men do or would do in the bedroom. We all know this

[NCAmazon]

Leeiah,

If you are attracting men, and they know you are a crossdresser, they are not straight. Straight men have no interest in a sexual or romantic relationship with another man. Period. You can not "change" a straight man any more than one can change a gay man to be straight. We are born the way we are, it's genetic. If someone is chasing you and you want that, then fear not, you have changed nothing.


No Sean, straight men are attracted to women. Gay men are attracted to men. It's real simple. Genetics drive everything. There re many women who re not feminine yet they marry MEN and that man was attracted to a women whom fit his desires, and visa versa

Are you sure about that? I think you gave a very boxed answer?

When I go out with my T girls to a straight bar we get all kinds of lewd offers from many of the men in the bar. Are you saying these men are gay?? Even though many of them were married with kids? Hmmm.

I thought like you until I put myself in a place were straight men were plentiful and a handful of CD girls were there among me.

Could that many men be bi or gay with a family and kids? I think there is more to it.

[Sammy777]

To the OP. You might want to check out this book "on the down low" (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/on-the-down-low-j-l-king/1100189006)


So a whole load of straight guys answered the question about how to deal with straight guys?
:lol2:

"How do you handle Straight Men?"

If you can't kill them with kindness then keep handcuffs in the night table :D

For the beginner out there might I suggest the "Smith and Wesson model 100" (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765582_-1_759157_757875_757837_ProductDisplayErrorView_N) :lol:

[whowhatwhen]

Try this:
Say they have to write a 100 word essay on how gay they are, or else they aren't getting any.

[ReineD]

To the OP. You might want to check out this book "on the down low" (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/on-the-down-low-j-l-king/1100189006)

I looked at the reviews and I'm quoting this one, from an anonymous gay black man:


Much Needed Literature for the Black Community
I'm doing thesis research on 'The Down Low' because I see first hand how it can effect not only other men, but women and children also. It's disappointing that many African-American men believe that sex with a woman makes them men, when in reality it is much more than that. Being a man means standing up for yourself, even if you're by yourself. Using a wife or girlfriend and children as a shield from society is cowardly. What is most disheartening though is that fact that DL men will take a woman as a wife and bring children into to the world for the sole purpose of protecting himself from what the world may think of him if they knew his true sexuality. I feel for women who all of a sudden find out that their husband didn't really love or even lust after them nor did he really love the children that they beared; these men just wanted to sheild themselves from the hatred and the bias. I am a black gay man and I've met men who were creeping around the gay areas while their wives are at home. I've tried to talk to some of them by just asking them 'What the hell are you doing?' King did a really good job describing the DL lifestyle and hopefully, it will encourage some men to stand up and come foward instead of hiding behind their wife and kids and possibly ruining their lives


Maybe the reason homophobia is so rampant is as an instinct of survival, as a way to make sure that men propagate their species. Maybe there are a heck of a lot more gay men than we ever imagine, because the secrets are held very deep. Maybe men just find better sexual matches (in terms of sexual appetite) among other men rather than women, in other words it is the sex that counts more than who they have it with. :sad:



Could that many men be bi or gay with a family and kids? I think there is more to it.

I have a male friend who is from [I won't mention the state]. He said, "Back where I come from, men are men and sheep are scared". :p

[Sammy777]

Maybe men just find better sexual matches (in terms of sexual appetite) among other men rather than women, in other words it is the sex that counts more than who they have it with. :sad:

I have a male friend who is from [I won't mention the state]. He said, "Back where I come from, men are men and sheep are scared". :p

You may have a point there.
It's sad that when a woman is Bisexual it is seen as some sort of perk to the male population.
Yet they [some, not all, not that there is anything wrong with that :p]
are so busy tripping over this chest thumping male bravo that the same sexual diversity in men [Bisexuality] is still frowned upon. :sad:

Oh and why have sex with a sheep over looking a cliff?
[Highlight the] Answer: The sheep push back LOL.

[Aprilrain]

FWIW, I think "gay" and "straight" are made up ideas drilled into us by a repressive society. The day when we realize that we are attracted to people for who they are, how they act and how they treat us (instead of by genital category) will be a glorious day. ?

Sexual orientation isn't some nefarious government conspiracy jeez!
People are attracted to the SEX they are attracted to because of that persons, well SEX! SEX organs have a lot to do with that.

[Matia]

Sexual orientation isn't some nefarious government conspiracy jeez!
People are attracted to the SEX they are attracted to because of that persons, well SEX! SEX organs have a lot to do with that.

question is , if they can be attracted to different genders though ;)

[Bree-asaurus]

question is , if they can be attracted to different genders though ;)

Depends on the person.

I like men. I like men's manly parts.

I don't care for women... they're too... womany.

My boyfriend is FTM. He's a man, but missing a few parts :P It would be great if he had the right parts, but we make do with what we've got. What we have is more important than the physical.

And for the record, I'm not attracted to women, transexual women or crossdressing men.

[Matia]

Depends on the person.

I like men. I like men's manly parts.

I don't care for women... they're too... womany.

My boyfriend is FTM. He's a man, but missing a few parts :P It would be great if he had the right parts, but we make do with what we've got. What we have is more important than the physical.

I just think people of this forum of all should see that there is more to gender identification than what sexual parts person has, otherwise the whole theatre about calling ourselves girls is stupid.
I think if somebody makes a convincing girl there is a good chance that she will attract straight men as well, if they find out about her "lower parts" it most likely will discourage them from further progress, but they may
still find a sexual way as sex can be very diverse thing.
Judging someone's sexuality purely on the physical sex attributes i think is a bit short minded. As in your example you like your man because he is a man, if he presented himself as a girl he might not be so appealing for you.

For me it's also important that my girlfriend is at least bi-curious , as if she merely tolerated me as Matia, I don't think it would really work for either of us.

[Bree-asaurus]

I just think people of this forum of all should see that there is more to gender identification than what sexual parts person has, otherwise the whole theatre about calling ourselves girls is stupid.

I agree and I disagree. I'm transexual so I fit the classic definition of "I identify as a girl but was born with boy parts." My gender is not defined by my parts. But male crossdressers are not girls. They identify as men... they are men. Transexual girls are women because they identify as women. Then there are people who either don't yet know who they are, or reside somewhere between male and female.


I think if somebody makes a convincing girl there is a good chance that she will attract straight men as well, if they find out about her "lower parts" it most likely will discourage them from further progress, but they may
still find a sexual way as sex can be very diverse thing.

I agree with the first part, if you can look the part. As far as still finding a sexual attraction once you know what their concealing, it really depends on the person. Either the person would have to be bisexual, pansexual or very open minded. But you're limiting this to physical attraction in public and physical attraction in the bedroom. You're leaving out attraction to the person inside the body, which is totally different.


Judging someone's sexuality purely on the physical sex attributes i think is a bit short minded.

Physical attraction plays a huge role in relationships. But I think you're preaching to the choir here since I already mentioned my man doesn't have all those man parts that I am attracted to. He is handsome as hell though and I've learned to love some of the not-so-manly parts he does have.


As in your example you like your man because he is a man, if he presented himself as a girl he might not be so appealing for you.

Nope. I'm not attracted to femininity. It's a turn-off for me. But I'm not bi, I'm not pansexual or anything. I'm straight. Honestly though, it would have to do more with how he acts when he's crossdressing, not the fact that he's crossdressing. If he still acts like a dude, it's all good. Cloths are just cloths.

But I wouldn't be able to go into a lesbian club, find a chick who looks like an attractive guy and last more than a couple dates. I'm just not attracted to women.

I can handle different body parts more than I can different genders. But this is me expressing MY attractions. I don't speak for everyone.

[suchacutie]

The thing that would concern me about a "straight" man showing interest in Tina (besides the fact that men interest Tina not at all!!) is the questionable mental stability of a potential partner. Do you really want to hook up with a guy who can't come to grips with his own sexuality?

[Matia]

I agree and I disagree.....

Please don't take what I'm saying too personally , I'm trying to have a kind of global debate. As it was previously mentioned in the thread, the whole problem here is pretty much about putting people in boxes, which doesn't really exist or do exist in the same way democracy or freedom does :) it's a concept. It may work for some and it might not for the others

Not too sure about crossdressers are automatically men, not in gender sense that is what I was trying to look into, if crossdressers are transgendered saying that they are just "men" in common sense is not entirely true. I think for transgendered people it may be ok to pose as both sexes .. they are kind of reversed bisexuals they may not be attracted by both sexes but are both sexes in one person.

I didn't mention personality, because the talk was kind of sex related, But ofcourse it's a crutial factor for falling in love, or spending more time with some person.

I might look to be on the edge at times, but I am rising the questions to find better understanding of the situation and myself.

[Bree-asaurus]

Please don't take what I'm saying too personally , I'm trying to have a kind of global debate. As it was previously mentioned in the thread, the whole problem here is pretty much about putting people in boxes, which doesn't really exist or do exist in the same way democracy or freedom does :) it's a concept. It may work for some and it might not for the others

No worries :) I don't take things personally on the internet. I'm just discussing it like you are :) I hope I didn't come off as offended or something... totally not my intent.


Not too sure about crossdressers are automatically men, not in gender sense that is what I was trying to look into, if crossdressers are transgendered saying that they are just "men" in common sense is not entirely true. I think for transgendered people it may be ok to pose as both sexes .. they are kind of reversed bisexuals they may not be attracted by both sexes but are both sexes in one person.

Well, see, that's the definition of a crossdresser. Someone who is comfortable with their birth sex, identifies as that sex but likes to wear cloths of the opposite sex. Now, that definitely does not describe everyone in this forum or everyone who calls themselves crossdressers when they are really something more. I think there are a lot of people here who are physically male that call themselves crossdressers, but actually identify as somewhere between male and female, or totally female. They either haven't come to the realization that they are not 100% male, or they do realize it but still use the term crossdresser instead of transgender. The term transgender is basically anyone who does not conform to the gender binary. They either crossdress, identify as somewhere inbetween male and female, identify as the opposite sex or don't identify with any gender. Personally I don't believe classic crossdressers (men who identify as men and just like to wear women's cloths) should also be classified as transgender... because it's just cloths. They have no issues with their gender identity.


I didn't mention personality, because the talk was kind of sex related, But ofcourse it's a crutial factor for falling in love, or spending more time with some person.

I might look to be on the edge at times, but I am rising the questions to find better understanding of the situation and myself.

Questions are awesome. :)

[whowhatwhen]

Well, see, that's the definition of a crossdresser. Someone who is comfortable with their birth sex, identifies as that sex but likes to wear cloths of the opposite sex. Now, that definitely does not describe everyone in this forum or everyone who calls themselves crossdressers when they are really something more. I think there are a lot of people here who are physically male that call themselves crossdressers, but actually identify as somewhere between male and female, or totally female. They either haven't come to the realization that they are not 100% male, or they do realize it but still use the term crossdresser instead of transgender. The term transgender is basically anyone who does not conform to the gender binary. They either crossdress, identify as somewhere inbetween male and female, identify as the opposite sex or don't identify with any gender. Personally I don't believe classic crossdressers (men who identify as men and just like to wear women's cloths) should also be classified as transgender... because it's just cloths. They have no issues with their gender identity.


That is a bit difficult, especially when access to therapists or phsychologists is so expensive.
Even here in Canada it's not covered by our government plan and it's really a shame.

I mean, how is someone supposed to know if they really are TG or if they're caught deep in a fog?
Unless you talk to someone who knows their stuff you might never know for sure.

[Matia]

Personally I don't believe classic crossdressers (men who identify as men and just like to wear women's cloths) should also be classified as transgender... because it's just cloths. They have no issues with their gender identity.

I know we are back at the boxes :) but shouldn't this be called transvestism as a sexual fetish ( no offense meant ) If it's not sexual and people crossdress to mimick girls but they see themselves as boys, I'm kind of missing the point of such action. (or it's just a denial of fetish because it's social stigma?)

This is maybe just semantics, but I think for me it's more like both male and female rather than in between. In fact the androgynous inbetween-ness is not very appealing to me - I like to present myself either as a male or a female, the in between zone is not very comfortable for me to be honest. I still see myself as one person though. Naturally you can't change your body with different appearance, but that's not something you can change so easily, maybe all I am trying to say, is that if I could go further with the change, I would change my body as well ( similar to trans sexual ) but I would not want to do it permanently. So it's not just clothes, it's the law of physics and reality :) and a bit of common sense

[Bree-asaurus]

That is a bit difficult, especially when access to therapists or phsychologists is so expensive.
Even here in Canada it's not covered by our government plan and it's really a shame.

I mean, how is someone supposed to know if they really are TG or if they're caught deep in a fog?
Unless you talk to someone who knows their stuff you might never know for sure.

That's why it takes so long for some people to figure out who they really are. Thankfully, as people become more aware that gender, like sexuality does't always obey the rules we have created, people are able to learn who they are at younger and younger ages. These days there are parents who become aware that their children are transgender or transexual and let their child decide who they are and offer them the support they need. There are transexual kids that can grow up without having to deal with the dysphoria, depression and repression that the older generations were forced to deal with.

And I can all but guarantee that there are people who suffer their entire lives and die not knowing they were really transexual.

Thankfully I was able to find a good therapist when I needed one. I believe I would have still gotten this far on my own, but it would have taken much, much longer.

[NathalieX66]

Without veering off the original topic, but to Bree's point mentioned above that Matia pointed out about being classified as transgender, I can say this: if you are in the process of transitioning, or planning to transition, or have transitioned, then you are transsexual. That's the classification. Maybe some of you who are transsexual don't like the sound of the word, but it is what it is.
Transgender is an umbrella term that suits many of us, including crossdressers.

[Bree-asaurus]

I know we are back at the boxes :) but shouldn't this be called transvestism as a sexual fetish ( no offense meant ) If it's not sexual and people crossdress to mimick girls but they see themselves as boys, I'm kind of missing the point of such action. (or it's just a denial of fetish because it's social stigma?)

I wouldn't say that, because not all men who like to wear women's cloths do it for the sexual thrill of it. You may not understand it, but that might be because you can't relate. I'm not a crossdresser... I don't really get any of it, but I accept that it exists and respect those who do it.


This is maybe just semantics, but I think for me it's more like both male and female rather than in between. In fact the androgynous inbetween-ness is not very appealing to me - I like to present myself either as a male or a female, the in between zone is not very comfortable for me to be honest. I still see myself as one person though. Naturally you can't change your body with different appearance, but that's not something you can change so easily, maybe all I am trying to say, is that if I could go further with the change, I would change my body as well ( similar to trans sexual ) but I would not want to do it permanently. So it's not just clothes, it's the law of physics and reality :) and a bit of common sense

And this bit confirms for me that no, you probably don't understand men who crossdress because you yourself don't identify entirely as a man. But remember that while you feel this way, not everyone who crossdresses, or even everyone who is transgender does. And it's totally cool. I don't get it either lol. I have no desire to wear men's cloths... I don't know why men would want to wear women's cloths. But some people do, and that's totally cool too :)

[Matia]

Bree - what I understood on the forums so far, is that people who are men and prefer just to wear some female clothing, but they don't present themselves as women are probably not going to be appealing for the oppposite sex anyway (back to the original discussion) they are men in feminine clothing and that's the end of it (they don't try to be convincing or passable) Lots of girls are wearing men's clothing regularly, it's not raising any questions anymore nobody questions their gender or sexuality for it, we should treat these men equally.. But if girls were wearing male's clothes to be passable as men, they would certainly fit the transgender / crossdressing umbrella.

[Bree-asaurus]

Lots of girls are wearing men's clothing regularly, it's not raising any questions anymore nobody questions their gender or sexuality for it, we should treat these men equally..

I agree. It's a double standard which is ridiculous. Honestly... they're just friggin cloths. I had collared shirts as a guy and I have collared shirts as a girl. The only real difference is the girl's shirts are tailored to fit the body. OMG The horror or wearing cloths for the opposite gender!

EDIT:

But as for what we were previously talking about, remember that there are multiple reasons why a man, happy with being a man, would want to crossdress.
So of course if there's some sort of fetish element associated with it.
Or he's not the macho man he always tries to be, and dressing up allows him to express his feminine, or gentler side.
Or maybe he just likes to pretend to be a girl, or likes to dress up like a girl like some people like to do cosplay.
Or maybe he just likes girl's cloths for the style/fashion.
I'm sure there are other reasons why someone comfortable in their male gender would want to crossdress. Maybe some could speak up if they do it for reasons other than what I listed here.

[whowhatwhen]

I can't tell you where I fit since I do not know myself.
To me CDing would be expressing a side that has been repressed for most of my life, but, due to circumstances I still have not been able to express.

I don't care about male me, I don't hate it but it's like a gray, shapeless blob.
I also know I'm not TS since from what I've read here a lot of experiences and thoughts don't line up.

Yay for confusion!

[Bree-asaurus]

Yay for confusion!

You've come to the right place :D

[Aprilrain]

I also know I'm not TS since from what I've read here a lot of experiences and thoughts don't line up.

Yay for confusion!

I would have said the same thing 6 years ago then years 5 to 0 I would have denied evn being a CDer in spite of a compulsion to wear woman's clothes on a regular basis. Then it happened and there is no going back, it hard to imagine that I fooled myself for so long!

[whowhatwhen]

Oh sure, fuel the confusion fire :P

[Sammy777]

I also know I'm not TS since from what I've read here a lot of experiences and thoughts don't line up.
Yay for confusion!

What "experiences and thoughts don't line up." for you?

[whowhatwhen]

I've read girls here post that it was either transition or suicide, I don't feel strongly that way in either direction.
I may not like or have any desire to use my equipment, but I'm in no danger of mutilating myself.

Plus, I think I would be doing more despite the circumstances I live under.

[Bree-asaurus]

I've read girls here post that it was either transition or suicide, I don't feel strongly that way in either direction.
I may not like or have any desire to use my equipment, but I'm in no danger of mutilating myself.

Plus, I think I would be doing more despite the circumstances I live under.

You don't feel that strongly... yet!

Just kidding :D

It's not transition or death for everyone. But there should be a feeling stronger than "Mneh, yeah I'd like to be a girl" :P I mean... if I had a significant other and children to live for I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been so selfish as to consider ending it all. But I really didn't have much else.

Find out what's true for yourself. You'll go crazy trying to define who you are by comparing yourself to everyone else.

But if you don't like your junk... that kinda tells you something, doesn't it?

[Sammy777]

they are men in feminine clothing and that's the end of it (they don't try to be convincing or passable) Lots of girls are wearing men's clothing regularly, it's not raising any questions anymore nobody questions their gender or sexuality for it, we should treat these men equally.

Well that is the sum of it.
Unfortunately you will find that most [but not all] CD'ers do not want to "JUST" wear the clothes.
I feel there would be a lot more acceptance if they JUST wore the clothes as a man.
If it was done without the make up, wigs, forms, ect. ect.

As far as women wearing "men's" clothes, it raises no questions because it has been done for decades now and more importantly these women are not trying to be, act or look like men.

Maybe if CD'ing men followed the footsteps of the women they so richly want to "emulate" then maybe one day a man in dress will be looked at no differently then a woman wearing a "man's" whatever is now.

But alas, when the day comes any man can wear a dress I think the allure of doing so will be lost by CD'ers

Just a thought :heehee:

[Aprilrain]

I've read girls here post that it was either transition or suicide, I don't feel strongly that way in either direction.
I may not like or have any desire to use my equipment, but I'm in no danger of mutilating myself.

Plus, I think I would be doing more despite the circumstances I live under.

We are all different, I had to be brought to the point of wanting to kill myself BECAUSE I had supressed it for the "good" of my wife and kids for so long. I figured it was better to be dead than shame them further. Therapy helped.

That being said I've never had a problem with my penis and I don't get why someone would want to ruin their chances for a decent sex life post op by mutilating the very parts needed to make the neovagina

[Badtranny]

I've read girls here post that it was either transition or suicide, I don't feel strongly that way in either direction.
I may not like or have any desire to use my equipment, but I'm in no danger of mutilating myself.

Plus, I think I would be doing more despite the circumstances I live under.

You gotta be careful about reading too much into what you read around here. Back in '09 I was totally confused because I'd never cross dressed and couldn't identify with what I was reading so I began to question if I had any gender issues at all. How could I be a transsexual if I wasn't even a cross-dresser? The prospect of HRT was terrifying so if you can imagine me trying my best to relate to panty threads than you can get a sense of how confused I was.

I don't hate my penis and it was not a matter of life and death for me either. I was experiencing some significant body issues but it was never genital related. (except my balls, never liked them)

My therapist was invaluable to me in helping find my direction. Who knows how long I would have stumbled along thinking I was just dealing with my sexuality. We all have a different story so if you take anything from here take this; we may all be walking the same path, but each of us walks alone.

[Bree-asaurus]

(except my balls, never liked them)

Yuck... who REALLY likes balls anyway? I think god got lazy on that day of creation :P

[darci.c]

Wow, a lot of interesting commentary here... now I guess I'm gonna chime in again.

I have believed for some time now that words are not reality. You can say "gay" or "straight" or anything else, but the truth is that it doesn't matter. Everybody feels what we feel, and only the nitpicky choose to play games with labels.

I've seen sexy come in many forms. Sometimes it's even... ugly. But hot. Go figure. And it definitely comes in one gender or the other, places in between, and places completely off the map.

I think the fun is gone when you start worrying about it too much.

And, um... there can be good... um... spheres... down there. Really. Just my opinion.

[Cherry Lynn]

Wow, a lot of interesting commentary here... now I guess I'm gonna chime in again.

I have believed for some time now that words are not reality. You can say "gay" or "straight" or anything else, but the truth is that it doesn't matter. Everybody feels what we feel, and only the nitpicky choose to play games with labels.

I've seen sexy come in many forms. Sometimes it's even... ugly. But hot. Go figure. And it definitely comes in one gender or the other, places in between, and places completely off the map.

I think the fun is gone when you start worrying about it too much.

And, um... there can be good... um... spheres... down there. Really. Just my opinion.
How true and it seems too many people think they have to label everything and make a big deal about being politically correct.

[ReineD]

How true and it seems too many people think they have to label everything and make a big deal about being politically correct.

I like to "label" as you call it, but it is not to be politically or perhaps morally correct. I think there is a necessity for definition in a realm filled with people who have a hard time defining themselves, let alone letting their wives know who they are and what they want exactly. Or who perhaps might find it difficult to tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

[Matia]

Well that is the sum of it.
Unfortunately you will find that most [but not all] CD'ers do not want to "JUST" wear the clothes.
I feel there would be a lot more acceptance if they JUST wore the clothes as a man.
If it was done without the make up, wigs, forms, ect. ect.

As far as women wearing "men's" clothes, it raises no questions because it has been done for decades now and more importantly these women are not trying to be, act or look like men.

Maybe if CD'ing men followed the footsteps of the women they so richly want to "emulate" then maybe one day a man in dress will be looked at no differently then a woman wearing a "man's" whatever is now.

But alas, when the day comes any man can wear a dress I think the allure of doing so will be lost by CD'ers

Just a thought :heehee:

But that's what I followed through, for many of us it is more than just clothes, that is the point I wanted to stress, you can wear any female clothing right now as a man and if you do it as a fashion statement and you are confident enough, it would be accepted much easier. If you wear breast forms, wig and hip pads, obviously you are in it not just for clothes but the whole girly image, - for me , this is what is a difference between a crossdresser and let's say open minded fashionable man

[whowhatwhen]

Yuck... who REALLY likes balls anyway? I think god got lazy on that day of creation :P

He just likes testicluar trauma humor and didn't want funniest home videos to lose 90% of it's content.
:D

Thanks for the kind words though, I'll figure it out in time thanks to this awesome forum.