We have made progress

[Christie ann]

The thread concerning where you were as a 20 year old got me thinking, but I didn't want to hijack the thread.

I remember back in the 1970's as a newly minted 20 year old, I finally got the guts to go outside in my very limited wardrobe. At least I had the hair and skin then. I visited almost every beauty shop and department store in this very liberal college town asking for some help with make up. No one helped. Most said they would never work on a guy.. ick!

Fast forward to the early 1980's in a major metro area on the east coast. I happened to be around a department store giving free make overs. Would they do me? Sure...but not out here where people can see. Can you come back? I did they were great and I loved the look. I still can't put eye liner on.

Let's compare that to my experiences this past week. The perfect storm of wife away, good weather and a free day got me into dress store (in a very conservative area) where I was discussing dresses and body shapes with the store owner as I was trying on dresses in the middle of the day with other women around. Awesome! Of course it has been at least 30 years in the making. Interesting that given the age of the store owner, she could have been one of the women not wanting to help me in the 70's.

Has anyone else been able to see these small changes?

[paulaprimo]

back around the same time in drab mode, i remember getting a small stud earring in one ear, at a time before guys wore an earring. omg how everybody made fun of that and called me all kinds of names. now a days every male under 30 have both ears pierced. i've even noticed baby boys have both ears pierced, like they use to do for girls. oh i wish i was 20 now...

[AussiegirlCD]

I was born in Sydney Australia in the 70's, lived there most of my life, with a few moves to other states at times, but I usually returned home to Sydney. It is well known for being a fairly easy going place for anyone living outside the hetero box, mardi gras has become a major event which is now supported by the state and federal govts, but I remember back in the late 70's and 80's it was still seen as something that was tolerated rather than celbrated like it is now.

These days families with small children line the streets in their 1000's to watch the parade, and it gets live prime time coverage on a major tv network, and is a seriously massive event that rivals anything else in the country. I'm proud to come from a progressive city, I always knew that if I wanted to come out and be a woman full-time, I would be quite safe and accepted by a very large alternative lifestyle community.

I moved to Tasmania about 6 years ago because I own a coastal property here and the cost of living in Sydney is extremely high, so I packed up and headed to one of the most isolated places on earth, it's stunningly beautiful here, quiet, I'm surrounded by forests and sandy beaches, and the cost of living is a fraction of Sydney. However, I immediately noticed how backward the state of Tasmania is, it's always been the state that other states make fun of, it has only decriminalised homosexuality in the last decade or so, way behind the other states.

It's interesting to observe the progress of Sydney which only really broke free of it's racist, white anglo-saxon, catholic, heterosexual bonds a few short decades ago, whilst other states have folowed fairly closely, Tasmania has remained largely unchanged.

I'm on a local dating site here, my profile clearly states that I'm a cd looking for other cd's and maybe a woman, yet despite this almost all the winks and messages etc have been from "straight" males. So clearly there is a significant number of repressed guys out there in Tassie, who don't even feel comfortable with being bi, let alone gay or worse yet... a crossdressing admirer... heaven forbid!

[Julogden]

Yes, me too. My memory is fuzzy on a few of the exact dates, but this is pretty close.

In 1969 at age 18, I worked up the nerve to buy pantyhose and makeup in a local department store, got looks of disgust from the cashier, but I didn't let her run me off. I bought a wig from a Frederick's of Hollywood store in about 1971, salesgirl was a little uncertain, but did share that I wasn't the only male buying stuff to wear from their store.

In the early 1970's, I found the first store that I know of in Chicago that advertised in crossdressing magazines, Rose Lee's lingerie boutique, bought another wig, some clothes and nylons from an older lady who liked CD's. In 1977, bought some better quality makeup from Marshall Fields and was treated in a rather mocking manner by the sales associate, but I got what I wanted. 1984 (if memory serves), Staara Boutique opened offering custom made fashions for transgendered women, didn't last long, but was a great store while it lasted.

About that time, I found an ad in the Yellow Pages for a big wig store called Custom Wigs and in small letters down in the corner of their ad, it said "TV's welcome", and I finally stopped in there in early 1985 and was delighted that they treated me with complete respect and friendliness, bought 2 wigs. I also went to the only store in Chicago that carried women's shoes in size 14, bucked up and went in there to buy a pair of shoes. They asked that I go into the back room to try them on, but had no problem taking my money.

By about 1990, I was active in Tri Ess and we were sometimes contacted by clothing stores selling stuff for tall girls, even had them come to our meetings with clothes to look at and try on. More businesses catering primarily to the community opened offering makeovers, clothes, lingerie, wigs, shoes, makeup, everything. Most of them didn't last too long, as the community couldn't support a business because most members were still so closeted that they were afraid to go to places like that, but a few survived.

Mid 1990's I often shopped openly for myself in a small tall girl's shop in my neighborhood on the NW side of Chicago. I couldn't try stuff on in the store, but if it didn't fit when I took it home, it was exchanged with no problem. I shopped for clothes in the Lane Bryant store in a local mall and was made to feel totally welcome there.

In the late 1997/98, I was an active participant in the alt.fashion newsgroup, a Usenet group for women interested in talking about makeup and fashion. I was open about being a CD, and was accepted as just another one of the makeup addicts. I got a lot of makeup discards from one of the women in the group, and she didn't care that I was a CD.

I currently live in the south suburbs of Chicago, and when I was a kid, you never saw a CD out in public, but one day in 2003, I saw two CD's out in public in one morning, one in a local Walgreens and one in a nearby hospital where I took my dad each week for treatments and possibly a thrid CD in a local book store. And in the last few years, I've seen trans women working in local stores including a Fry's Electronics, a Burger King and another Walgreens.

There's a local Yahoo group for CD's who get together a few times each week to meet for dinners and lunches in "straight" restaurants, and you never know when or where you might see a gaggle of CD's out for a day of shopping.

Now there are laws protecting transgendered people at the state and county level. In addition, in some cities and towns, including Chicago, it's illegal for businesses to discriminate against us. We can now get a state ID card dressed as a woman in addition to our driver's license, so we can have a legal ID for use when we're out dressed.

Nowadays we have mind-boggling resources of very kind imaginable ion the Internet.

We can essentially go anywhere and buy what we want, although there are still ignorant people who will make rude remarks, and a few who might take it further, but things are getting better all the time. There are more places passing laws protecting us from discrimination in jobs and housing, although there are those who are fighting hard to stop us from getting our rights spelled out by law.

Carol

[Davena Doll]

So are you going to date one of the hot Tassie guys or what, please do tell.

[Davena Doll]

Well I walked into a store the other day, and I sized up a dress (IM going for the T mobel girl look) it looked a little small I thought. As I walked out the lady said " I think that dress would look good on you" I said "I think it might be to small" she said that in front of 3 older men. No one blinked an eye, that I notest any way. god knows what they said after I left.

[vikki2020]

Yes,Carol, I remember those adds for Custom Wigs. They even advertised in the Tribune. I read that "TV's Welcome",a million times! They are still there, different name.:) There are a lot of small, accepting gestures that are happening today,but, together they add up to a much better world for us. Nothing is perfect, but,at least it's moving forward. Even the products aimed at men today--lotions, "manscaping" products, facials,and spas---big change from just a few years ago!:)

[AussiegirlCD]

So are you going to date one of the hot Tassie guys or what, please do tell.I am leaving my options open, but I'm not just some horny dudes fantasy, and I'm meeting some lovely girls of both varieties on various sites which is great. But let's not hijack this thread, I'm happy to chat or pm ;)

[Leslie Langford]

It seems that a day doesn't go by at the present time where there isn't some story in the media related to transgenderism, gender dysphoria, raising gender-neutral children, gay-straight alliances in schools, or same-sex weddings and/or adoptions etc. The world has suddenly discovered us, and we have become BIG NEWS.

The topic du jour lately seems to be stories about parents who have not only come to the realization that their children are transgendered - even as young as ages 2 and upwards - but are actually supportive and prepared to work with them to help them become who they were really meant to be.

This would never have happened when I was that age. Conventional wisdom back then was that you had a duty as a parent to - if necessary - "beat the gay" (or whatever) out of the child to make sure that he/she would conform to society's rigid gender norms.

[lingerieLiz]

As a 20 year old in the mid 60s I became aware of my craving to wear women's clothes. I developed small breasts growing up and even with low body fat I was constantly teased. I went into an inexpensive store and purchased a complete wardrobe for the night as I was staying in a hotel. I'm sure the SA knew it all was for me. The next day I realized I had no where to keep it and reluctantly threw it away. Shortly thereafter as I turned 21 I figured out where I could safely store my fem clothes. I made pretty good money so I quickly built a quality wardrobe. The SAs loved me and were more than happy to sell me clothes although I never indicated anything was for me several told me that I would make a pretty girl. Some even offered to let me try things on. I did have some close calls of being caught while driving around at night. More than once I drove during the day and someone would notice my skirt hiked up and slip showing.

In the 70s I continued to dress, and my job required travel so I could shop stores in several states during my free time. Often driving from town to town dressed. I often underdressed and now think back how did I ever get away with calling on customers wearing a thin cashmeir turtleneck sweater with a bra on. Even with a jacket on it had to display my mounds. I did call on a customer one day where one of the guys was wearing a lace bra under a too thin t-shirt. I never blinked, but sure would have liked to know if it was a joke or was he a CD.

In the 80s and 90s work became the driver and getting out and about was seldom if ever. By 2000 I was pretty open and had been seen by enough people I figured it was time to accept that neighbors and friends knew. I also quit worrying about SAs and just told them it was for me. Most of them didn't believe me until I asked to try something on. Today I wear casual clothes and most everything is women's clothes. I still travel some, but now it is to resort destinations where everything is casual.

[Karren H]

Yeah times may have changed but my wife hasn't.... So "we" may have on average progressed. But the standard deviation is still huge.... Many of us are frozen in time.... it all depends on what horse you hitched your wagon to.... 30 some years ago?

(Don't tell my wife I compared her to a horse! Lol.)

[Phylis Nicole Schuyler]

Yeah times may have changed but my wife hasn't.... So "we" may have on average progressed. But the standard deviation is still huge.... Many of us are frozen in time.... it all depends on what horse you hitched your wagon to.... 30 some years ago?

(Don't tell my wife I compared her to a horse! Lol.)

Karen, you didn't compare her to a nag so I think you're safe. I have seen some very beautiful horses and when they run they are poetry in motion.

[kimdl93]

I never had similar earlier expereinces in my early adulthood....I was too scared to venture into a women's store or to stop at a make up counter in those days. Today, is certainly different. I get such a warm and positive response from SAs - perhaps they're more interested in making a sale than in expressing a prejudice - but I think a deeper change has taken place and people generally, and merchants in particularl, are more accepting and in some cases enthusiastically so.

[Karren H]

Karen, you didn't compare her to a nag so I think you're safe. I have seen some very beautiful horses and when they run they are poetry in motion.

"The old grey mare she aint what she used to be" just popped into my head. Glad she's getting her hair colored today! Lol.

[Leslie Langford]

Yeah times may have changed but my wife hasn't.... So "we" may have on average progressed. But the standard deviation is still huge.... Many of us are frozen in time.... it all depends on what horse you hitched your wagon to.... 30 some years ago?

(Don't tell my wife I compared her to a horse! Lol.)

Never! - because that would just open up the door to her referring to you as the horse's other end...;) :tongueout

[Karren H]

Never! - because that would just open up the door to her referring to you as the horse's other end...;) :tongueout

That barn door opened up years ago! Lol.

[Christie ann]

Yeah times may have changed but my wife hasn't.... So "we" may have on average progressed. But the standard deviation is still huge.... Many of us are frozen in time.... it all depends on what horse you hitched your wagon to.... 30 some years ago?

Karren, I totally agree.

[joanna marie]

Yeah times may have changed but my wife hasn't.... So "we" may have on average progressed. But the standard deviation is still huge.... Many of us are frozen in time.... it all depends on what horse you hitched your wagon to.... 30 some years ago?


Hindsight is always 20/20

If I knew 40 years ago where this desire to CD would go,

I would have chosen a different horse


Lost a lot of years when it would have been easier to pass