My Wife Avoids Talk of CD'ing

[renaej7]

Hello to All!!!

I am a newbie on here and very thankful I found this site. Crossdressing has been a lonely road for me and very expensive due to purging and trial/error. I am married with kids. My wife has known that I am a CD for the past 9 years. I have tried to have in-depth conversations with her, but she kind of cut them off when we do. All of my clothes are in storage bins downstairs and are not allowed upstairs on our room. I want to talk to her, but it is like she shuts me down the moment we try to talk. When I first told her, it was just wearing panties, but now it has progressed to full CD'ing. I want to be able to come to her for advice and tips. I want her to know I want to go out. It doesn't have to been in the same city we live. I want to be able to browse the women's section if we are in the store together w/o fear of offending. Any suggestions on what I can do to get her to sit down and talk? She is ultra conservative. Thank-you in advance for any suggestions.

*renae*

[renaej7]

When I asked her that, she stated it made her feel uncomfortable. I tried to gather some articles around it and explain what how go through and how it does not affect us. It was like talking to a wall. My biggest fear is that I am going to go in "out dont care" mode and she is going to see me walk out the house as Renae. I bet she'll want to talk then.

[Sandra]

Hi,

It is going to be hard but ask her if she will just hear you out, You say that she's known for 9 years, was she ok when it was just wearing panties? Did things change when you started cding more. did you discuss this with her or just go ahead and progress?

One thing she does need to understand is that the cding isn't going to go away, yes it can go on the back burner for a while but it will still be there simmering away.

[AllieSF]

It seems like you are trying and that she has known about it for a significant amount of time. I can understand that she may not want to see you dressed, or participate with you, like shopping and providing tips. Since you seem to otherwise be in a good relationship, I think that maybe you need to tell her in a nice way what is bothering you and what you want to do. You could say I really want to go out for fun or to support groups or to meet other CD's. She may respond negatively. You could then tell her that she does not have to be around when you go out so that she nor your children see anything, but you will be going out. She may say OK, might decide to say no. Either way, you would then maybe have a better ground to talk about it. I do not think that I could live in a don't ask - don't tell situation with my better half, if I had one. I think that sometimes one needs to stand their ground to gain a little or to advance from silence to conversation. I do not think that we should expect anyone to accept it, but at least they should be able to tolerate it and try to understand what it is all about and give some space. I wish you the best of luck.

[BRANDYJ]

I'm sorry your wife refuses to talk about it with you. Perhaps she thinks if she avoids it, you will just give up, She also might be afraid that if she allows herself to talk to you about it, your interest in it will escalate. Or she avoids it pretending your dressing does not exist.
It does not sound like you have a very communicativee relationship with your wife when it comes to important issues. Or she just does not see this as important and it really turns her off for a number of reasons that she is afraid to share with you to keep harmony between you and her. Is she otherwise happy in the marriage? Do you do things for her and with her? Do you take sincere interest in things that are important to her or things she enjoys? I'm not asking you to respond to my questions, but ask you to ask yourself if you think you are a good husband and partner to her on a level that makes her happy. Is the love between you and her still strong or are you merely co-existing for the sake of the kids and financial reasons?. Is the romance still there? These are the things you need to think about and answer for yourself. Again, I am not asking you to tell us. Just think about them and answer honestly to yourself.
OK, so now you have a clue as to how she may feel and why she does not want to talk about it.
I might suggest you open up to her in the form of a letter. Pour your heart out as to what this means to you and how it is festering and frustrating you.
I also think you are jumping the gun in wanting to ask her for advice and tips. Also about you wanting to go out even in a different city. Forget about talking about shopping together. These are things that I think would put her off to the point she willnever want to talk about it. Another words, stay away from all talk about what you want to do if she will accept you and your desire to just dress. Sounds like you are asking to much to soon. You need to approach this with baby steps and simply tryto get her to understand and let her decide what she can and can not tolerate at this point. Tell her how much you need her understanding and acceptance at a level she can deal with. Tell her how much she means to you, how much you love her and how hard this must be on her since she hasunderstandingidng or education on subjectbjet. A letter will leave her with time to think about it with interruptions; Time to reflect on what you poured your hear out to her about. Express yourself from the heart and assure her how important she is to you. I would also invite her to respond to your letter in the same way. That is for her to share her feelings with you about this via a letter back to you. Some people just don't feel comfortable with face to face talks about serious issues. I would also suggest, and include a link to this site if she feels she needs to learn that you are far from alone and she can learn more about it and talk to other wives that deal with the issue.

OK, that's my 2 cents. I wish you luck.

[Miriam-J]

I once had a wife who refused to discuss it as well (no, not even close to the reason for breaking up). According to her religious and cultural upbringing and firm belief my activities were equated with homosexuality and inherently evil. This left room for neither discussion nor acceptance since her beliefs were more important to her than her husband's "sinful fetishes". Since the sinner can only be forgiven if he repents and I saw nothing to repent of, we were at a standoff. I just learned to maintain a second life, keeping my dressing hidden away carefully.

You don't describe your wife's fundamental problem with your dressing, and perhaps you would have to presume too much to state it. But you must have clues based on your understanding of her psyche after all these years.

As for browsing the woman's section, you can always go there to assist her with her shopping. Most women will appreciate a man being right there helping them to choose rather than pacing the aisle outside the store or section. My wife enjoyed that even when she objected to my dressing.

Miriam

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Hi Renae,
sorry to hear that you have communication problems with your wife. I only very recently discovered that my husband was a CD'er. It was a huge shock and I'm still getting my head around the idea of it all. I am ok with it and am happy for my husband to dress in front of me. However some days it does freak me a bit -

The fact that your wife has known about your CD'ing for 9 years and is still with you says that she has accepted it to a degree. For some people out of sight is out of mind - if you dont see something you dont have to acknowledge that its real. However, if her feelings havent changed in 9 years, there's every possibility that they're not going to change now. Maybe silent acceptance is all you will ever get? Not ideal for you by any means but possibly better than total hostility and disgust or a marriage break up?

As a wife of a CD'er I would say, be very careful not to push your wife too far - if you try to force her to talk about your CD'ing, you will be forcing her to face something that maybe she doesnt want to face.

You say you WANT to go out dressed - is it that want to or you feel you HAVE to ? are you prepared to put your relationship with your wife and your family on the line to do this? if you're not then I'd say dont just get dressed and be-damned with it all - once you do this, it cant be undone, if your wife is really as conservative and uncompromising as you say, this might just tip her over the edge.

If however you feel that you absolutely must go to the next stage and go out dressed then you need to explain this to your wife, by any means possible, and a letter may be the way forward there. but you need to explain to her that you love her and dont want to upset her, but this is something you need to do and that you hope that she will try to understand this.

In a perfect world if I had a magic wand I would make my husband a 100% normal guy and get rid of all this CD'ing stuff - I dont want my husband to dress in womens clothes, or put on a wig & makeup - but its not a perfect world. So I accept what cannot be changed, and try to understand and make the best of our marriage. We do talk about it and I joined this forum to get more insight into the whole issue - I guess joining the forum is not omething your wife would even consider? although it might be worth suggesting it to her just in case - there are a lot of us wives and girlfriends here and we support each other.

I wish you luck in trying to find a satisfactory way forward -

[STACY B]

GET her on here an let her READ !!!!!!!!! Thats what I do an still do she loves it an feels 100% BETTER ..

[JaneAshland]

I am in a somewhat similar situation, in that my wife does not want to see me dressed, but she is ok with me dressing. She has known this is part of my life for as long as she has known me. We have talked about it, and she is scared to see me dressed as a woman, because I am her man, and she does not know how she will take seeing me as a woman. I am her strength and protector, and I don't want to loose that. I don't want to push it, and I surely don't want her to loose her opinion of me, so as long as she is ok with me going out from time to time, and she is, I respect her opinion, and fear. We have a wonderful relationship, and I just don't want to risk loosing that.

Maybe this is how your wife feels, but she just does not know how to explain it....I hope this helps you.

[Jenniferathome]

I don't think there are any tips that will make her talk. All you can do is offer up the conversation. Have you tied,"Honey, it frustrates me that we can't talk about my crossdressing. It's a part of me that exists but is shut out. I don't want to make you uncomfortable but I want to understand what you think about it and what about it might scare you."

Now, I'll also state that getting a third party involved should help in opening her up without fear. Therapists are just moderators to help open the dialog. Ultimately, you have to find out what she is afraid of. Her fears may be simple and logical but might be imagined as well.

[renaej7]

Hi,

You say that she's known for 9 years, was she ok when it was just wearing panties? Did things change when you started cding more. did you discuss this with her or just go ahead and progress?

At that time, I think she figured panties were harmless. Things began to change when I started coming home with more than panties. At first, I would kind of keep my stuff in plain sight, so she would not feel like I was hiding stuff from her. Oneday, she just totally freaked out when she saw my wig that I was wearing at the time. I've always tried to have those, I've progressed convo's, but I would be shut down.

[renaej7]

In a perfect world if I had a magic wand I would make my husband a 100% normal guy and get rid of all this CD'ing stuff - I dont want my husband to dress in womens clothes, or put on a wig & makeup - but its not a perfect world. So I accept what cannot be changed, and try to understand and make the best of our marriage. We do talk about it and I joined this forum to get more insight into the whole issue - I guess joining the forum is not omething your wife would even consider? although it might be worth suggesting it to her just in case - there are a lot of us wives and girlfriends here and we support each other.

I wish you luck in trying to find a satisfactory way forward -

First, let me say that you are awesome for standing by his side. It's not easy for a man to present his feminine side. Outside of CD'ing, we dont have any marital issues. I wish she took the same approach, "its not a perfect world". I am going to see if she would be willing to atleast read this thread, so that she can see we are not the only married couple in the world facing this. Thanks!

[SweetPea_GG]

At that time, I think she figured panties were harmless. Things began to change when I started coming home with more than panties. At first, I would kind of keep my stuff in plain sight, so she would not feel like I was hiding stuff from her. Oneday, she just totally freaked out when she saw my wig that I was wearing at the time. I've always tried to have those, I've progressed convo's, but I would be shut down.

I think that with you wanting more then just panties kinda probably has scared her. Especially if you didn't talk to her about other things you wanted to buy before buying them. And then just leaving them out in the open. I understand you not wanting to hide them. But when you expanded to more then just panties which you told her about she is probably more confused and scared and worried. And then seeing the wig. That would of freaked me out too. It's funny how I'll read posts about wives who are trying to accept so the CDer goes and pushes the boundaries with buying more and trying more without talking or asking how their wife feels.. She needs to know that her opinion matters and what she is or isn't comfortable with matters.

When my husband would buy things or get things done which was not in our first set of boundaries I felt very hurt. In not a big talker and I didn't want to upset him to tell him I was very uncomfortable with some boundaries he was crossing. So instead I kept quiet and kept my feelings like that to myself so I wouldn't stir the pot. I kinda resent him for pushing those limits especially on his own and not caring how I felt.

[Barbara Ella]

renae. If you can get your wife to read this thread, it could really help. No, not change her mind, but perhaps soften the shut down syndrome. My wife has settled into the supportive mode that silentpartner discusses. Whe loves me and knows that this is something that must be and she wants me to be happy, but she does not want me to be a cross dresser, and if she could, she would change me back, and I would let her. I don't know if your wife is fundamentally against it, but loves you enough to put up with it, or if she still just does not know what cross dressing is, or even what the interpersonal dynamics of your conversations are, ie. does she discuss and even argue about other topics with you, or is there a shutdown syndrome on other topics as well, which may mean there is a shortcoming in your ability to lead a conversation equally.

Key is to go slow, forget about your desires and wants and really pare your thoughts down to "must haves or i will go insane" items that you feel are necessary to your daily well being, and be honest. These are really what is important for you and your wife right now. I have lots of things that would be nice to do, but most of them involve intestinal fortitude I may never get, and some of the others just dont advance the way I feel about myself Be very honest with yourself before you write the letter, and please dont put any ultimatums in the letter. the purpose has to be to stimulate a long dead conversation and let her know you still love her and she is the center of your life, not your dressing.

Please take the ideas in ths thread to heart, and decide which ones may best help you.

Babes

[Jacqueline Winona]

Renae, you're in a similar spot as I am, my wife would prefer to never think of Crossdressing I suspect. But then she surprises me- giving me panties, asking to borrow my hose, finding a recepit for Janice (today in fact) and not freaking out. I don't know your wife or your situation, so I'll just say listen to the advice from Silent Partner and Sweet Pea, the advice from the gg's here is really eye-opening for me as it provides an opportunity for you to think of your wife's point of view that is easy for us to miss. And just remind her through your deeds that you're still the man she wants- you can still take the trash out, do the chores she doesn't want, she can still count on you, etc., even if you need to be Renae on occasion.

[NicoleScott]

There are many cases reported here of a cd telling the wife and getting acceptance and even strengthening their relationship. There are others that resulted in divorce. Nobody's been able to figure out and predict what the results will be. So, the decision to force the discussion is one of risk/reward.

She knows but doesn't want to discuss it. That is not a negotiated position, but a de facto Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell. It sounds like your desire to bring this up again is driven for your desire for increased femme time and stepping out of the closet (going out, shopping, etc.). Just be aware that getting your way may end your marriage.

[renaej7]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will definitely take it to heart and come up with a plan of action. You all are the greatest and I am glad I found this site. It is awesome!

[Katesback]

Your wife married a man. She has made it clear she expects you to be a man. She barly tolerates the CD stuff and wants nothing to do with it.

I hate to burst your bubble but she has every right not demand to not be part of the CD stuff! Do you understand what I am saying? Do you really?

If I was dating a guy and he out of the blue told me he is a CD I would at best be JUST like your wife. I would want nothing to do with it! You might not like what I said but thats MY right and exactly what I choose.

So that leaves you suffering. Well you have to make a decision. Are you going to live under the impositions of other people, or are you going to live your life however you wish?

Personally having lived a portion of my life under the impositions of other and then finally saying "screw them I am going to do my own thing" was the best decision I ever made. Of course you loose a lot of things when you make such a decision but you also gain a lot of things.

So while you waffle back and forth do yourself one favor. LEAVE you wife out of the it because she does not want to be part of it and that as I said earlier is her RIGHT. DONT VIOLATE HER rights!

Katie

[Raven Tripp]

well somethings are simply deal breakers. you can't force her to accept you.

[Sheila]

Perhaps rather than asking her to talk about it, you could instead try the old letter writing thing.
Explain to her why you CD, how it makes you feel ( the good and the bad), what your fears are in relation to your cding for your relationship, your family life, friends, job, how lonely a road this is, and here I am going to make an huge assumption :doh:, that you did not deliberately not tell her in the beginning, but explain how hard it is to tell someone you love, that you CD (that of course is the huge assumption I made in that you did not tell her before you got married, if I am wrong in that I apologize).
Pleas though do not make any promises (even with the best intention in the world), that you may not be able to keep.

9 years is a very long time to do the avoidance route and this may be a way of opening up a communication on the subject, that may eventually lead to you both being able to talk openly about it in the future, my best wishes for you both are being sent :)

[suchacutie]

The situation you present is difficult and sad at every turn. Your wife clearly "wants her man" and something inside of her equates transgenderism as a danger. Whether that danger is based in religious faith, upbringing, or socialization matters not as the danger is still real. There seem to be a number of issues here, where only the first one is her inherent feeling of danger. The second is that the progessing transgenderism is out of her control. This is something you did by yourself, not with her. By moving forward on your own you widened the gulf between the two of you on this issue. I'm not saying it was easily avoidable. In fact, it may have been unavoidable if you were both locked into your positions: hers not wanting it to happen and yours needing it to happen.

So, IF it is possible to break through this impass it will be necessary for her to be reassured that her fears of ever progressing movement forward without any imput from her will stop. You want her input but she can show you many examples of you moving forward without her input. Yes, it is true that she refused to help, but that doesn't change the facts, sadly. She must also be reassured that when she wants her man, she can have him. This is predicated that she will be willing to NOT have him on occassion, and that may not be acceptable. Thirdly, she must ultimately see the advantages of having a transgendered husband. We've had many threads here talking about the advantages we bring to a relationship, and it's likely that she is already the beneifciary of some of these advantages. The more she explains to you about what it is like to be a woman, the more these advantages will multiply.

All this said, there is the possibility that no matter what you communicate to her that she will never be willing to accept or participate in you presenting a completely en femme transformation. At that point it will require a set of difficult decisions.

I hope for the best.

tina

[Joanne f]

Like some have said it would not be a good idea to push things at the moment yet you want to talk about it and your wife does not so the only way i can see that might help is to talk without mentioning it ok might sound daft but i am sure your wife will know what you are really talking about .
Try something like, If we have something causing problems in are marriage do you think it might be a good idea to talk about it , then go on to how would we solve it if one of us was doing something the other did not really like or understand but at no time mention CDing unless your wife brings it up

[Eryn]

I don't think there are any tips that will make her talk. All you can do is offer up the conversation. Have you tied,"Honey, it frustrates me that we can't talk about my crossdressing. It's a part of me that exists but is shut out. I don't want to make you uncomfortable but I want to understand what you think about it and what about it might scare you."

I think that this is excellent advice. Good marriages are exercises in compromise. It is unfairly hurting you to keep this bottled up inside and the resulting stress is harmful to your marriage. Since you aren't discussing it, your spouse has no way of knowing how much mental damage the DADT situation is causing you.


Outside of CD'ing, we dont have any marital issues.

Actually, you do. Regardless of the topic, one party refusing to discuss something that is important to the other party is a serious marital issue. A "line in the sand" is not a sign of a healthy marriage.


There are many cases reported here of a cd telling the wife and getting acceptance and even strengthening their relationship. There are others that resulted in divorce. Nobody's been able to figure out and predict what the results will be.

One cannot predict the outcome with 100% certainty, but in a situation where both parties were truly invested in making their marriage work the outcome will likely be positive.

If one party doesn't take the marriage seriously, or where other factors (family ties, religion, etc.) get in the way, the outcome is less certain. Each situation has to be evaluated on its own merits and you know your spouse better than we do.

I hope that your situation is resolved for the better. My wife made a considerable effort to try and understand my situation as well as help me to get past my own hangups and understand myself better. For us, the result is a better marriage than we had before.

[Jill Devine]

Katie sounds more angry and upset than the wife. I must have missed a chapter.

[Katesback]

I fail to see how you can even come close to gathering that I was or am angry/ upset.




Katie sounds more angry and upset than the wife. I must have missed a chapter.

[LeeAnnRose]

I see a couple of very important points here. Your wife didn't shut you down even knowing some of what you do. My hot button is the kids. All you decisions are no longer just yours or you and your wife's. With children involved this becomes much more complicated. You have a number of desires in your cross dressing quest, some of which are topics which are quite uncomfortable for you wife. 9 years seems like a long time, but even so your actual number of conversations may make it like a new topic, even now. Take you time and understand, your wife may just not be ready. Work with her to find common ground. Continue to approach things slowly so it does not take a bad turn.

[Katesback]

Someone said I was angry and or upset. What is amayzing about this post is the great number of threads from those of you that are overlooking the wishes of someone and continueing to try to come to a resolution that meets your hopes. I am sorry guys/girls but I think your ignorring the fact that the wife in this instance has been quiet clear about her intentions. Just like myself. I could read 1000s of pages of crossdresser stuff. That will not change my mind. I dont want anything to do with it from my man! Thats MY (and the wifes choice) and by continueing to prod her will just continue to disrespect her wishes and rights.

Back to what I said before. The poster has to make a decision. If he is unhappy its time to consider moving on or living within the confines of the wife. I have to say shes is probably more lienient that I would be. Personally if I was dating a guy and he dropped the crossdresser bomb on me I would very likely pack my bags and move on. Call me cynical but I know all to well that what starts out as panties tends to escalate all the way to transition and sexual reasignment surgery sometimes. I am wise enough to know that a surprising number of people that call themselves crossdressers are really TS but have yet to decide to take the plunge.

As I said if I date a man I want a man 100% of the time. Simple as that. If you come to some sort of view that this makes me angry or upset then I am sorry for you. Really I am because nothing could be further from the truth. I am mearly excersizing my rights, just like the wife from the original post.











I see a couple of very important points here. Your wife didn't shut you down even knowing some of what you do. My hot button is the kids. All you decisions are no longer just yours or you and your wife's. With children involved this becomes much more complicated. You have a number of desires in your cross dressing quest, some of which are topics which are quite uncomfortable for you wife. 9 years seems like a long time, but even so your actual number of conversations may make it like a new topic, even now. Take you time and understand, your wife may just not be ready. Work with her to find common ground. Continue to approach things slowly so it does not take a bad turn.

[Stephanie47]

I don't think Katie is off point. You're 32 and your wife has known of your cross dressing for nine years. It appears she may have silently stated her boundaries. i.e., she does not approve and she does not want to discuss it. Frankly, cross dressing is somewhat out of the customary behavior of the male in a marriage. Marriage involves some give and take and endless negotiations- some are serious and some are petty. Some are deal breakers. I'm in a DADT relationship. My wife does not want to discuss the issue of my cross dressing, and, I have made no further efforts to 'persuade' her to be 'educated.' She is a professional and intelligent and she can and may have self educated herself on cross dressing. My last effort to explain myself did not go well. I suspect she did not want to be 'pushed' to understand a behavior I cannot explain or understand myself.

I had to do some 'google' searches to get a grasp on when my wife became cold to cross dressing. I remembered she was uncomfortable watching "Tootsie" at the movies when it came out. That was 1982. Same uneasiness with 'Mrs. Doubtfire" (1993). If I could not figure out over three plus decades that she does not want to be a part of it, then why should I press the issue.

I can fully understand you may wish to hang out in the house en femme. But, to what extent do you wish to infringe on the silent boundaries your wife has established. Sometimes in a marriage, you just take the obvious hint. It seems you want to spread your horizons. You have a wife and children to consider. At 32 your children have to be young. Are you ready to have them feel the consequences of spreading your wings? The same with your wife's feelings.

I weighed the rewards and risks of increasing my cross dressing 'adventures.' I think boundaries have to be established in a marriage and respected. Pushing the envelope does not always work out. I really think your wife has silently given you her answer. I know my wife has indicated by silent actions what her boundaries are.

[Sheila]

Kate I am sorry, but you cannot and I mean you cannot say what you would do in any situation until you find yourself in it, and even you yourself have said " if you were dating & he dropped the cd bomb you would MOST LIKELY move on" ..... firstly they were/are not dating, they are married, 2 ndly there are children involved in this marriage, not quite so easy to walk away from a marriage and kids especially if you love them, for some, & u may well be 1 it maybe that easy, but not for the majority.

There is something called compromise in all relationships whether they are spelled out at the start e.g barring any major disaster "I" will play netball/hockey /go fishing/play darts every WED, or some things become a compromise over time in a relationship . one wants to watch a Documentary on Mondays the other wants to watch a comedy on Tuesdays, they don't all get discussed to the death before they become written in stone in a relationship !!!!

As far as I understand the situation, the wife knows wants no part in the cding at this time, apparently does not want/know how to discuss it, perhaps she feels she backed herself into a corner in the beginning and just does not know how to reverse that stance ......... it is not always a full road to TS with cding ...... for some and a small majority that is where the journey leads, more will explore the possibility but continue to reside in both modes ........ perhaps that is why the wife is scared because she reads "ALL" CDERS are TS, but we know this is far from the truth, however many will spread scare stories, either because of ignorance or because it suits their personal agenda :doh::doh:

Perhaps the original poster could enlighten us as to how he has tried to approach discussing CDing with his wife :)

[Eryn]

Someone said I was angry and or upset. What is amayzing about this post is the great number of threads from those of you that are overlooking the wishes of someone and continueing to try to come to a resolution that meets your hopes. I am sorry guys/girls but I think your ignorring the fact that the wife in this instance has been quiet clear about her intentions. Just like myself. I could read 1000s of pages of crossdresser stuff. That will not change my mind. I dont want anything to do with it from my man! Thats MY (and the wifes choice) and by continueing to prod her will just continue to disrespect her wishes and rights.

Back to what I said before. The poster has to make a decision. If he is unhappy its time to consider moving on or living within the confines of the wife...

Kate, what you overlook is that not everyone has your "my way or the highway" attitude. Some people are reasonable and realize that "it's not all about me." They are mature enough to come to compromises that address the needs of both even if it means giving up some personal advantage. A marriage with this sort of flexibility will weather the storms of life, be they CDing, illness, or any other challenge.

"Lines in the sand" denote a dictatorship, not a marriage, and such an unbending relationship is likely to break the first time it is stressed by CDing or other challenges of life. I'm very glad that I avoided relationships with people who think in that way.

[Katesback]

But I can tell you what I would very likely do. And that is I would call it a day.

I never said that all CDs are TS. What I said is many are. What is VERY much the case is that CDing tends to escalate from panties to more and more and more. You can read the countless posts just on this site about how CDs yearn for more. Be it going outside the house into the world, to having the wife involved in the activities, to sex. I can tell you that if you go to Southern Comfort and pay close attention there are a group of men (tranny chasers) that attend the conference. These men are VERY busy and if you watch you will notice a lot of CDs doing things with these guys. I suppose it is an escalation to be as much of a woman as they possibly can, even to the point of having sex.

Most women probably arent aware of this escalation effect and many get blind sided as time goes by (read the posts here about acceptance and then after escalation rejection). I on the other hand am aware of the escalation. That my dear is something I want nothing to do with so yes I can say that I would pack my bags and run.

Just to be clear here I never said all CDs are this way but when it comes to escalation (especially when they percieve they have gathered some sort of acceptance) nearly all are.

Katie





Kate I am sorry, but you cannot and I mean you cannot say what you would do in any situation until you find yourself in it, and even you yourself have said " if you were dating & he dropped the cd bomb you would MOST LIKELY move on" ..... firstly they were/are not dating, they are married, 2 ndly there are children involved in this marriage, not quite so easy to walk away from a marriage and kids especially if you love them, for some, & u may well be 1 it maybe that easy, but not for the majority.

There is something called compromise in all relationships whether they are spelled out at the start e.g barring any major disaster "I" will play netball/hockey /go fishing/play darts every WED, or some things become a compromise over time in a relationship . one wants to watch a Documentary on Mondays the other wants to watch a comedy on Tuesdays, they don't all get discussed to the death before they become written in stone in a relationship !!!!

As far as I understand the situation, the wife knows wants no part in the cding at this time, apparently does not want/know how to discuss it, perhaps she feels she backed herself into a corner in the beginning and just does not know how to reverse that stance ......... it is not always a full road to TS with cding ...... for some and a small majority that is where the journey leads, more will explore the possibility but continue to reside in both modes ........ perhaps that is why the wife is scared because she reads "ALL" CDERS are TS, but we know this is far from the truth, however many will spread scare stories, either because of ignorance or because it suits their personal agenda :doh::doh:

Perhaps the original poster could enlighten us as to how he has tried to approach discussing CDing with his wife :)

[Katesback]

Dear I dont believe the my way or the highway attitude is so much a factor here. What a lot of you dont seem to get is the wife HAS choosen her point of view. After nine years shes has remained the same. There is no reason to believe she will change her mind. So back to what I said earlier. The crossdresser has to choose to either live within the confines of the wives expectations or decide to do her own thing. I think the most responsible thing would be to make a decision and live with it. On the other hand of someone chooses to live within the confines of someone elses expectations and is miserable......... well I have NO sympathy for them.

Finally before you throw out kids and all I point out to you that countless TS women have gone through transition and the kids survived. Nearly all of the marriages failed but hey thats to be expected. The reward is the TS got to be the person she always knew she was.

Katie




Kate, what you overlook is that not everyone has your "my way or the highway" attitude. Some people are reasonable and realize that "it's not all about me." They are mature enough to come to compromises that address the needs of both even if it means giving up some personal advantage. A marriage with this sort of flexibility will weather the storms of life, be they CDing, illness, or any other challenge.

"Lines in the sand" denote a dictatorship, not a marriage, and such an unbending relationship is likely to break the first time it is stressed by CDing or other challenges of life. I'm very glad that I avoided relationships with people who think in that way.

[Eryn]

Just to be clear here I never said all CDs are this way but when it comes to escalation (especially when they percieve they have gathered some sort of acceptance) nearly all are.

It's a mighty big stretch to equate a desire to "escalate" dressing beyond panties to having a desire for sex with men or to make a full transition. That's the impression you're trying to make despite your disclaimer. Painting every CDer with your personal brush isn't at all reasonable or realistic.

The great majority of CDers are perfectly happy being heterosexual males who happen to have an appreciation for things feminine. This has been borne out by multiple studies.


Dear I dont believe the my way or the highway attitude is so much a factor here. What a lot of you dont seem to get is the wife HAS choosen her point of view. After nine years shes has remained the same. There is no reason to believe she will change her mind.

That depends entirely upon the weight placed upon the topic when it is discussed. If it has increased in importance for Renae and she makes this clear it is quite possible that her wife's attitude won't be as unbending as yours.

There are several topics that my wife doesn't *like* to discuss, but if I were to say "not discussing this topic is hurting me" she would agree to discuss them. I would do the same for her. Those are the compromises that keep marriages going.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

I have to say, I do think Katie has a point here - from what I read here, plus my experience with my own husband, allbeit only a short time, it does appear to me that many CD'ers do escalate - maybe not all the way to sex with a man or transition etc. but in terms of how far they want to dress, how often, going out dressed, body shaving etc. and this does worry me somewhat.

Obviously if the CD isnt married or in a serious relationship then she is free to do whatever she likes with impunity. However, if she is married or in a long term relationship and has come out to her partner - maybe saying "I only dress once a week and I dont want to go out of the house" etc. and the wife is accepting - at that level it doesnt seem to be long before she is then pushing to another level, maybe underdressing daily, or painting toenails, shaving body hair etc.

This to my mind is rather selfish - the wife has been accommodating, compromising and accepting - but thats not enough - boundaries very quickly seem to be pushed.

The OP said that it started with panties, and the wife silently turned a blind eye, maybe because she felt she could cope with that, she probably didnt like it, but for the sake of the marriage and the kids, she said nothing and hoped she could push it to the back of her mind. However then the clothing started arriving home, the wig, got left around for the wife to see - albeit with the intention that she didnt want to hide things from the wife, it was going to be perceived as pushing the boundaries.

Even in my own relationship as I said in another thread, I accepted the CD'ing, was ok with seeing my husband in a dress, wig, make up, heels etc. but pretty soon that wasnt enough, he then started shaving his legs, more clothing was bought in secret, hidden from me - WHY? why couldnt he be happy that I was accepting and be satisfied with what he had - why push for more? I guess its human nature - the more you get the more you want

this is what a lot of wives are afraid of and in many instances, rightly so.

[whowhatwhen]

It's definitely unfair that he was not up front, but her ignoring it isn't going to make his CD desire disappear.

Just as it wasn't fair for him to hide is CDing from her, it's not fair for her to ask him to keep it completely repressed.
That **** messes you up mentally and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

They have to talk, otherwise you'll just have to move on.
You said she's ultra conservative, is her fear religious based homophobia?

Good luck my friend!

[Katesback]

I give you a lot of credit girl. As I said earlier I dont have the patience to deal with it. The sad thing is that your husband is what he is. He cannot change it and any agreement you and he makes really is not fair to either of you and both can be seen as selfish. Conversily speaking you are totally entitled to your right to accept it or not.

See thats the problem with being with a CD. You are imposing your expectations on someone to act in a way that they are not. At the same time you have every right to do so. Its really sad when I look at it because I have seen soo many relationships fail over time. The escalation almost always does not stop and as I said earlier its really not fair to impose your point of view upon someone else.

By the way the clothes thing. I crack up because I have met crossdressers with 10 times the clothes I own and I am a girl. I mean they dont generally wear them but a tiny portion of thier lives and to add to it they often own clothing that is totally unacceptable for thier age or ability to blend in. They dont understand like you do that you have to grow up to know how and when to wear heels and/or short skirts. LOL

Back to what I was saying eariler. I give you a lot of credit. You have more patience than I do. If you ever need to vent just get ahold of me. I am all ears.






I have to say, I do think Katie has a point here - from what I read here, plus my experience with my own husband, allbeit only a short time, it does appear to me that many CD'ers do escalate - maybe not all the way to sex with a man or transition etc. but in terms of how far they want to dress, how often, going out dressed, body shaving etc. and this does worry me somewhat.

Obviously if the CD isnt married or in a serious relationship then she is free to do whatever she likes with impunity. However, if she is married or in a long term relationship and has come out to her partner - maybe saying "I only dress once a week and I dont want to go out of the house" etc. and the wife is accepting - at that level it doesnt seem to be long before she is then pushing to another level, maybe underdressing daily, or painting toenails, shaving body hair etc.

This to my mind is rather selfish - the wife has been accommodating, compromising and accepting - but thats not enough - boundaries very quickly seem to be pushed.

The OP said that it started with panties, and the wife silently turned a blind eye, maybe because she felt she could cope with that, she probably didnt like it, but for the sake of the marriage and the kids, she said nothing and hoped she could push it to the back of her mind. However then the clothing started arriving home, the wig, got left around for the wife to see - albeit with the intention that she didnt want to hide things from the wife, it was going to be perceived as pushing the boundaries.

Even in my own relationship as I said in another thread, I accepted the CD'ing, was ok with seeing my husband in a dress, wig, make up, heels etc. but pretty soon that wasnt enough, he then started shaving his legs, more clothing was bought in secret, hidden from me - WHY? why couldnt he be happy that I was accepting and be satisfied with what he had - why push for more? I guess its human nature - the more you get the more you want

this is what a lot of wives are afraid of and in many instances, rightly so.

[Eryn]

more clothing was bought in secret, hidden from me - WHY?

The usual reason for hiding things is because we think that the person we are hiding them from will disapprove of us.

My wife addressed this issue by sharing our shopping. This allows her to keep an eye on things and advise me when I'm about to do something silly.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Eryn I could understand the feeling of possible disapproval if I didnt know about my OH's CD'ing but I said right when he first came out to me, tell me no lies, dont hide your purchasing please!!!! and he promised there would be no more lies/deceit but he still went on to buy things over the internet and get them sent to other addresses so I didnt find out - that's just plain bad in my book. This is the single thing that could be a dealbreaker for our marriage - and it would seem such a petty thing to anyone not involved but with our history, lies are just not acceptable from my stand point.

Thnks for your reply Katie - I can see exactly what you are getting at - there is no much more to the whole issue than acceptance or not isnt there

[Katesback]

Now your starting to see what the word acceptance means several hidden things. One of them is that many CDs see acceptance as the avenue to escalate thier activites! Also acceptance can be seen as the beginning of the severe days where it escalates from pantyhose and panties to going out into the world dresses as a woman.

You did realize that just in this posting all the responses that talked about continueing to talk to the original posters wife. Some of them are relentless and cannot overlook the fact that the wife is NOT going to change her mind. Actually they do feel that constant pressure will over time crack the concrete wall and open the door for that panties, to out the door dream.

Of course not ALL CDs are like this but I got to say that the countless ones I met ALL and I mean ALL stived to get to go out to the gay bars and shopping.
That seemed to be the holy grail and many became content if they got to that point. The sex and dating men crap I saw at Southern Comfort and surely that was just a percentage of the CDs that were there. Of course like any convention there is sex after the days activities. LOL.

Katie






Eryn I could understand the feeling of possible disapproval if I didnt know about my OH's CD'ing but I said right when he first came out to me, tell me no lies, dont hide your purchasing please!!!! and he promised there would be no more lies/deceit but he still went on to buy things over the internet and get them sent to other addresses so I didnt find out - that's just plain bad in my book. This is the single thing that could be a dealbreaker for our marriage - and it would seem such a petty thing to anyone not involved but with our history, lies are just not acceptable from my stand point.

Thnks for your reply Katie - I can see exactly what you are getting at - there is no much more to the whole issue than acceptance or not isnt there

[Silentpartner GG SO]

I dont get it - what is it with all this shopping crap? I like to think I'm a normal genetic female and I really dont like shopping that much - too crowded, too boring - why on earth do CD'ers have SO many clothes ? it just seems such a waste of money to have so much more than will probably ever get worn regularly? maybe I'm just way too practical....

[whowhatwhen]

Sorry to interrupt the echo chamber, but it's been 9 years.
By closing her eyes and ears and going "LALALALALALA" she now holds just as much fault as him, at least he's trying to talk about it.

Re escalation:
If you don't trust what he says, why are you still with him?

Re shopping:
Some guys like shopping, some girls don't, maybe the guys want to shop but society has pigeonholed them into the "RARRR MASCULINE MANLY MAN DOES NOT NEED TO SHOP!" attitude?

Re gay bars:
I've heard they're just genuinely fun places to be since on average the gay community contains less discriminating s***heels.
Again, if you don't trust that your SO isn't going out for some dick on the side why are you even bothering?

[Di]

My suggestion would be to set up a time when you are alone to talk and explain ...this is a part of you and just try to explain it the best you can. Also remember there are many ways couples work things out from total support to don't tell, do not want to see( setting up times where the cder can dress.
I would not suggest just being your girl/self and try to talk...trust me that will not go well.
Let here know we have a great group of GG's in Fab here that she can talk to.
AND there are alot of posts in Loved Ones that can help you explain.
Be prepared and good luck.

[~Joanne~]

I think that this is excellent advice. Good marriages are exercises in compromise. It is unfairly hurting you to keep this bottled up inside and the resulting stress is harmful to your marriage. Since you aren't discussing it, your spouse has no way of knowing how much mental damage the DADT situation is causing you.



Actually, you do. Regardless of the topic, one party refusing to discuss something that is important to the other party is a serious marital issue. A "line in the sand" is not a sign of a healthy marriage.



One cannot predict the outcome with 100% certainty, but in a situation where both parties were truly invested in making their marriage work the outcome will likely be positive.

If one party doesn't take the marriage seriously, or where other factors (family ties, religion, etc.) get in the way, the outcome is less certain. Each situation has to be evaluated on its own merits and you know your spouse better than we do.

I hope that your situation is resolved for the better. My wife made a considerable effort to try and understand my situation as well as help me to get past my own hangups and understand myself better. For us, the result is a better marriage than we had before.

I wish I had anything to add to this that others haven't already. Most are giving you very sound advice but Eryn hits it right on the head with hers.

[~Joanne~]

Re shopping:
Some guys like shopping, some girls don't, maybe the guys want to shop but society has pigeonholed them into the "RARRR MASCULINE MANLY MAN DOES NOT NEED TO SHOP!" attitude?


That's why everything advertised is aimed at women. Personally, I have always loved shopping regardless of CDing :)

[Jenna J]

Like my wife keeps reminding me... "Time is a wonderful healer."

[Jenna J]

I give you a lot of credit girl. As I said earlier I dont have the patience to deal with it. The sad thing is that your husband is what he is. He cannot change it and any agreement you and he makes really is not fair to either of you and both can be seen as selfish. Conversily speaking you are totally entitled to your right to accept it or not.

See thats the problem with being with a CD. You are imposing your expectations on someone to act in a way that they are not. At the same time you have every right to do so. Its really sad when I look at it because I have seen soo many relationships fail over time. The escalation almost always does not stop and as I said earlier its really not fair to impose your point of view upon someone else.

By the way the clothes thing. I crack up because I have met crossdressers with 10 times the clothes I own and I am a girl. I mean they dont generally wear them but a tiny portion of thier lives and to add to it they often own clothing that is totally unacceptable for thier age or ability to blend in. They dont understand like you do that you have to grow up to know how and when to wear heels and/or short skirts. LOL

Back to what I was saying eariler. I give you a lot of credit. You have more patience than I do. If you ever need to vent just get ahold of me. I am all ears.

Katesback, I just dont think you understand. What is the crime in dressing in clothes and using make up.....?

[BRANDYJ]

I dont get it - what is it with all this shopping crap? I like to think I'm a normal genetic female and I really dont like shopping that much - too crowded, too boring - why on earth do CD'ers have SO many clothes ? it just seems such a waste of money to have so much more than will probably ever get worn regularly? maybe I'm just way too practical....

Count me among the numbers that does not like to shop Silent. Not in drab or enfem. I'd NEVER shop enfem. I am one who cares what others think, including store SA and other customers. I feel that many people confronted with a CD would feel uncomfortable, and I don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable, ler alone myself. I agree with you about the waste of money that more then likely, will never be seen by anyone other then my SO. When I do shop it's 98% of the time done on-line. Kate says this thing keep esculating, and to a degree she is right. Years ago I would have never shaved my legs, would never appear in any public place, never tell anyone about my being a CD. Well all the above I have done. And that's a;lll the esculating I'm gonna do! Count me as a more out then "normal CD. To give you a clue about who the "normal CD is, all you have to do is look at the number of MEMBERS on-line vs the number of GUESTS that are viewing this site at any one time. The point is the majority of CD's don't shave their body, don't go out in public, don't shop in fem mode, have not told anyone other then maybe and it's a BIG maybe, their wif eor girlfriend. And guess what? The majority never will. Hell, they are to afraid to even join here so they come and lurk. That's the average or majority of us that call ourselves crossdressers. Kate talks about the CD's she's met. OK, I get that. But the average CD is one she would never meet since they would not be in the public for Kate or anyone else to meet! So I don't think she can speak of any large number of CD's that will esculate to the point of ever wanting to transition. Kate might be spaeaking largly out of her personal experience where she esculated from being a CD to full transition. I'm now 63 and I'd think that I have esculated all I'm going to by now. I just hope her post did not scare some of our GG members thinking that their husband is going to want to take it to the extreme of shopping in fem mode. wanting to have sex with guys, growing breasts and finally full transition. If I had to guess, that number that do that is fewer then 1-2% of all crossdressers.
So please, our beloved GG members that are concerned, don't think what Kate says is the norm. It's far from it. Look, you know your husband and if he can be trusted or not. You have a sense of how masculine he is...or isn't, You have a sense of how much he cares for you, how much he loves you, how much of a liar he has or has not been on other issues. So please don't think the majority or even a high number, are going to esculate to a point that you can not deal with or support him in this thing that for the most part, is so hidden in the closet that most CD's never even tell a soul and are happy keeping it in the bedroom or at home. Sorry Kate, your point is well taken, but in my opinion is far from the normal everyday crossdresser. I wanted to put some of our GG's at ease by sharing my opinion and what I belioeve to be true.

[NicoleScott]

Kate expressed her opinion, the harsh reality of the situation as she saw it. Can we get back to Renae?

[jaglover]

I'd like to make a point about "escalation" - this word that keeps coming up. The implication seems to be that CDers want one thing today but the mere fact of having that thing will make them want something else tomorrow. For a lot of us, it's not like that - instead we always wanted the 'escalated' things, it's just that we didn't admit it at first. This is the danger; we don't tell our SO's that we 'only want to wear panties' (knickers to me) because we actually believe that - we tell them because we think they'll be able to cope with that and we hope that once they are used to it we can 'introduce' them to the next stage.

In an ideal relationship (which I don't have, unfortunately) the big conversation should cover this. Take - er - oh, shaving legs for example. It's self-evident that hairy legs don't look good in sheer tights/stockings. So if you plan to wear these in the future you should admit to yourself and your SO that you'll have to shave your legs at some point, yes?

GG's: some of us aren't 'escalating' - our fault in this is that we're afraid to tell you everything, we want to reassure you that it's "not as bad as all that" and so we under-state it to you. On behalf of myself and CDers like me, I apologise for our cowardice.

[fallapartduck]

I would have to agree with the fact that after 9 years, if she hasnt wanted to talk about it until now, i doubt much would change the wife's mind about talking about it now. I think she has made it clear where she stands. Like it or not, it is what it is.

[jaglover]

and another thing if you'll excuse me banging on. Speaking for myself, I believe passionately that the dressed-up me can be a fantastic husband, father and provider and all-round great person to be with (no false modesty here...) but, I won't get a chance to prove that to my wife unless she will give me the benefit of the doubt and let me demonstrate it to her.

It's a heart-rending dilemma. The SO fears she will lose her guy if she lets him loose on all this but because she doesn't let him loose he can't prove her fears are unfounded. YMMV of course.

[Allsteamedup]

As a GG who has been through all of this can I add a few thoughts?

You are a husband and father of small childresn.Your wife is a mother and probably works, too. The reason that people in your situation dress in support groups is to keep your cross-dressing out of the house while the children are around. And their little friends etc.


Next, as a father, who gets the bigger share of your salary, your female alterego or your children?

And Time. How much time do you genuinely have to hold down a job, do your chores, have family time and time with your wife? And how much does that leave you to dress?

And when your wife comes to you with a concern, be it family or work or finance related, how much of your attention do you genuinely give her?

What you are asking for (dressing in the home in front of her, going out socialising dressed, shopping and make up tips) is what a wife may offer after YEARS of knowledge of your dressing and when she genuinely has the time to do that. For example, when the children have left!

You are asking far too much and do not appear to have anything to offer in return for the time and money to be invested by your wife.

The main reason women will not get involved in a 'discussion' like this is because they can sense how one-sided it will be. (You want to do all the talking, she has very little to offer in return by way of reasoned argument).

The next thing that shines through your story is that her views don't carry much weight with you anyway.

The best place for a discussion like this is away from the home. Perish the thought the only reason you would plan a weekend away with her would be to only discuss something like this, but neutral territory (not her home) would be a good idea.
As has been mentioned, she does not have to like this cding, but if you can guarantee to keep this away from your children she might be agreeable to your dressing at a group (the agreeable bit taking into account that she is looking after the children while you do it). If you allow to do the same for her so that she can take up a hobby, remember that you will have to find time from somewhere to spend with her, so your cding may come at the cost of giving up a male pastime.

The picture that you have painted here of your wife is quite bleak but remember one thing. SHE HAS PUT UP WITH YOU THIS FAR!!

[BRANDYJ]

Kate expressed her opinion, the harsh reality of the situation as she saw it. Can we get back to Renae?

And I expressed mine in my not so harsh reality. Someone gives an opinion that I don't agree with, I'm going to respond...Just like kate did. I have no hard feelings toward kate for her opinion, but a counter opinion was deserved and needed in my opinion. However, i will agree, we should get back ontrack to the OP's original topic.


Good post Allsteamedup.

[Marleena]

I have been trying to avoid this thread as it happens far too often. But we have a new member who is truthful to his wife and there is no "Big Lie" or deceit. The OP is looking for advice from us and some type of acceptance from the wife (which may not happen).

My suggestion is a third party, (counselling) if the wife will agree. If that doesn't happen I see marriage troubles. CDing doesn't go away, the OP has obviously tried to stop.

[Jenniferathome]

what is it with all this shopping crap? I like to think I'm a normal genetic female and I really dont like shopping that much - too crowded, too boring - why on earth do CD'ers have SO many clothes ?

Dear Silent, I thought I'd chime in on this one as I have an idea as to the "why". I suspect for most, as it is for me, buying something is like a small substitute for actually crossdressing. I tend to buy when I can not dress for a time. Kind of Li,e a stress release valve, maybe. As a result, we accumulate clothes (I too, however, am too practical so I don't have "too" much in the closet). And to address Katie's comment about style and appropriateness, I agree. Most men have no clue about style and tend toward ****ty (most will describe it as sexy, but it's not) without help. Per time, I think most learn what is appropriate, particularly if you go out.

[Valerie1973]

My wife avoids talking too. She jumps to conclusions. She is a poor listener and often impatient and will interpret a message prematurely. Hearing is the passive reception of incoming messages, whereas listening requires full engagement with another person. Effective listening requires that you attend to people's words and feelings-which by the way, takes more energy than speaking. Societal norms also dictate our behavior. Societal norms guide what clothes we wear, what we wear to bed, to a funeral. When we switch things around and ware dressed and skirts, well, this offends people. That's just what they call the norms. She either needs to accept you or let you go. I've told this to my wife several times. Regardless whether I can or can't change we as people resist change or thrive on it. When we feel hopeful, we are more open to learning, more able to solve problem creativity,and more resilient. I wont bullshit you, I don't have all the answers. -Valerie

[Jenniferathome]

the wife in this instance has been quiet clear about her intentions.

Katie, I wanted to address a theme running in your commentary. My read on the post is that the wife has clearly NOT stated her position. In order to state a position, you have to STATE it. Now, if after a discussing the subject and her position is, "I never want to see it, talk about it, etc.", then so be it but that marriage is doomed. Not becuase a wife refuses to accept, or because the crossdresser wants her to, but because they can't communicate. No topic should be off limits for discussion in a marriage; kids, politics, sex, tv shows, wall colors, nothing. Communication is the key to success in any marriage, CD involved or not. Don't ask, don't tell didn't work in the military and it doesn't work in life.

It is her right, yours and my wife's to refuse to be with a crossdresser or stay with one, that's the beauty in life, we all choose. But to choose one has to weigh both sides.

[Niya W]

Now your starting to see what the word acceptance means several hidden things. One of them is that many CDs see acceptance as the avenue to escalate thier activites! Also acceptance can be seen as the beginning of the severe days where it escalates from pantyhose and panties to going out into the world dresses as a woman.

You did realize that just in this posting all the responses that talked about continueing to talk to the original posters wife. Some of them are relentless and cannot overlook the fact that the wife is NOT going to change her mind. Actually they do feel that constant pressure will over time crack the concrete wall and open the door for that panties, to out the door dream.

Of course not ALL CDs are like this but I got to say that the countless ones I met ALL and I mean ALL stived to get to go out to the gay bars and shopping.
That seemed to be the holy grail and many became content if they got to that point. The sex and dating men crap I saw at Southern Comfort and surely that was just a percentage of the CDs that were there. Of course like any convention there is sex after the days activities. LOL.

Katie
We must be on 2 different plants. Most of the CD's I met like doing every day activities. Most of the CD's I've met respect the boundaries there wife set . If the dressing becomes a problem the back off. The don't spend every penny the get on cross dressing. There a lot that I've met that only dress in seclusion . I only met them cause they were at a another CDs house .

[Niya W]

I dont get it - what is it with all this shopping crap? I like to think I'm a normal genetic female and I really dont like shopping that much - too crowded, too boring - why on earth do CD'ers have SO many clothes ? it just seems such a waste of money to have so much more than will probably ever get worn regularly? maybe I'm just way too practical....
Different strokes for different folks. My mom and sister has tons of dresses. In two years you will never see her wear the same dress to church.My mom has over 50 pairs of shies .

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Jennifer, I can understand the shopping substitute for dressing - this is what my OH does I'm sure. I am actually a little like that with beads - when I cant make jewellery for one reason or another, I shop for components - so I do understand this substitution thing.

Brandy, dont worry too much about us GG's - we're obviously a fairly tough bunch - we're still here! lol and having chatted to you I appreciate there are many different levels of CD'ing and many different levels of requirement. I do take your point about not meeting the more "normal" CD'ers - as you say, they dont go out dressed.


Can we get back to Renae? - I think we've scared her off!

With regard to the wife in the OP - I can understand why she has refused to even talk about this - whilst a "head in the sand" approach isnt going to cut it forever, I admit to having adopted this approach in the past. When I had deep suspicions my OH was having an affair, I could have found out if I really wanted to but I just couldnt face up to the truth so I didnt go fishing, believed his absolute BS and lies and buried my head deep in the sand. In the end I did "dig" and found out but it takes guts to face your fears - just as it takes guts to face your wife with the truth about your CD'ing.

Who knows, maybe Renae's wife is simply biding her time, not rocking the boat, until the kids are grown and she can kick her OH to the kerb ? if this is the case then I doubt she will be willing to talk on any level.

[whowhatwhen]

Who knows, maybe Renae's wife is simply biding her time, not rocking the boat, until the kids are grown and she can kick her OH to the kerb ? if this is the case then I doubt she will be willing to talk on any level.

Which is not good for the kids, I know this first hand and it's why I LOL at "the sanctity of marriage".

[Katesback]

I dont have a crystal ball but in nine years I am sure the wife has stared her point of view. She just these days refuses to talk about the subject.
What is there really to talk about? The CD has needs that arent met and the wife has needs that arent met. NEITHER will compromise. I mean you can sit there and try to talk to a brick wall (the wife) all day long but there is NO compromise! Thats part of the problem with CDs they tend to overlook the fact that other people sometimes have no ability to compromise on things. I have stated I wont date a CD. There is NO compromise there. I just wont. I also wont date a man for other reasons and again there is no compromise. You say marriage has to have compromise. Well I submit to you that some things are not open for compromise whatsoever.

Also dont forget you the CD singned on into the relationship as a MAN. Society has expectations of you and if your wives had no idea of your CD status when you got married then lets face it you broke your contract. As a matter of fact for those CDs out there that really are TS I submit to you that your wife will figure out your TS before your willing to admit it. She will probably let you know this in the heat of an argument and you will deny it because to do so is the kiss of death now isnt it?

Your point about the marrage failing is probably very likely. I have little doubt that will happen. I just didnt feeling like saying it earlier.


As for some of you that say I paint a picture of CDs going out and having sex and being TS. Well your overlooking the fact that I said some are this way. I did not say all. What I did say is ALL CDs I have ever met have excalated. Doubt me? Well read the countless posts in just this forum.

I am sorry CDs if I speak in a manner that is not what you want to hear. I am sorry if I scare your wives. I have no desire for anyone to be scarred. On the contrary I would rather have everone happy and living the life they want to. Sadly that does not tend to go alone with a married life now does it?

Katie




Katie, I wanted to address a theme running in your commentary. My read on the post is that the wife has clearly NOT stated her position. In order to state a position, you have to STATE it. Now, if after a discussing the subject and her position is, "I never want to see it, talk about it, etc.", then so be it but that marriage is doomed. Not becuase a wife refuses to accept, or because the crossdresser wants her to, but because they can't communicate. No topic should be off limits for discussion in a marriage; kids, politics, sex, tv shows, wall colors, nothing. Communication is the key to success in any marriage, CD involved or not. Don't ask, don't tell didn't work in the military and it doesn't work in life.

It is her right, yours and my wife's to refuse to be with a crossdresser or stay with one, that's the beauty in life, we all choose. But to choose one has to weigh both sides.

[NicoleScott]

Brandy, of course you can state your disagreement. I just saw the attention drifting away from the OP, and wanted it to get back on track, which is: Renae wants advice on getting the wife to enter into a serious discussion, as previous attempts have been unsuccessful.

[whowhatwhen]

Stating "I'm uncomfortable." and leaving it as that for 9 years doesn't count, lots of things make me uncomfortable but pretending they don't exist doesn't fix anything.
I could see it taking time before she would be ready but not after almost a decade, either you remove your head from the sand and deal with the very real issue that's not going away. Or, move on since you're expecting him to repress a part of himself that will always exist.

I'm not excusing getting attached and keeping such secrets, but I know why it happens and know what happens if you try and shove it into a closet.
Everybody loses.

[ReineD]

The sex and dating men crap I saw at Southern Comfort and surely that was just a percentage of the CDs that were there. Of course like any convention there is sex after the days activities. LOL.

You know Kate, you've posted this before, and you were corrected by some of our CD members who were there as well, and who confirmed that yes, there are some male-attracted CDs/TSs at TG conferences (just as there are among the non-TG community), but it certainly doesn't represent the extent you allude to in your posts. I do wish you would learn to be more objective when you post. When you say, "the sex and dating men crap I saw at ...", it makes it sound as if it is more pervasive than it actually was. If you come back and say this is what you saw, then I need to ask if this is what you were looking to see.

As to my own opinion about the things discussed in this thread, I can't possibly say them any better than Eryn:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?169837-My-Wife-Avoids-Talk-of-CD-ing&p=2765710&viewfull=1#post2765710

And especially this one:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?169837-My-Wife-Avoids-Talk-of-CD-ing&p=2765748&viewfull=1#post2765748

To the OP:
This is what I've noticed over my years at cd.com: often times a CDer starts out his relationship believing that he shouldn't impose the CDing on his wife, whether or not she knows about it. This describes someone who hasn't yet accepted himself or for whom the CDing has not developed. And so over time there develops a tacit understanding between husband and wife that the CDing does not belong in the relationship. The longer this phase lasts, the more secure a wife becomes in the knowledge that it is "a hobby that we don't talk about" and the CDer's feeble attemps to talk about it in later years aren't all that effective, as long as he holds on to the idea that his wife is too fragile to know the developing truth.

You do need to let your wife know how important it is for you to discuss and begin to resolve this and that if you don't, your mental health will suffer and your marriage also might as the result. This is not to say that you are giving her an ultimatum to accept it or you will leave, just that she needs to learn about what this is really all about rather than hang onto her preconceived notions. And after at least a 6-12 month learning time (through many thorough discussions, reading literature, maybe even reading and discussing the posts in a forum such as this one that mirror your own attitudes about the CDing), THEN she can make up her mind whether or not the knowledge that you are gender-nonconforming is too much for her. You need not dress in front of her during her learning period, and you may well never dress in front of her depending on how it goes.

If she does reach a point where she begins to understands this is a part of you that is not going away and she still feels queasy about being exposed to the CDing, the two of you can establish ground rules where you can express yourself with her knowledge (she needs to know that you dislike doing this without her knowledge) but without involving her, such as attending TG support groups, or perhaps being given time to dress at home occasionally while she is out doing other things. She needs to rid herself of the notion this is perhaps a sick, sinful, or perverted thing to do.

Only after a time of concentrated discussion about this and the discovery there is indeed an insolvable impasse, should you even consider either risking stopping entirely (if you can do so without compromising your mental health) or each moving on from your relationship if you can't. But please do not come to this conclusion right away. At the same time, do not expect your wife to learn about this through osmosis.


--------------------------------

It astounds me there are TSs in this community who would not even consider allowing their partners to express themselves, should they have fallen in love with a CDer whose needs develop over time, even if the agreement was to not expose the TS to it. It also astounds me there are TSs in our community who are unable to see anything other than a permanent sexual motive to the CDing, and it makes me wonder if they believe this because it was their own experience ... until they received HRT of course. Has anyone ever heard the saying, "If you spot it, you got it?" :p

Sorry, but Katesback's black and white views really frosted me.

[Marleena]

There is no communication going on between the OP and his wife regarding the CDing. Nothing can be resolved until that changes, if it does..JMO.

[Lorileah]

Maybe she finds it uninteresting. Maybe she has trouble understanding just why you want to do the things she finds basic and honestly tiring. Maybe she would like it if the discussion was actually about the two of you and not just YOU. I dunno, maybe.

When CDs start talking about dressing it is filled with "I"s and "I want"s. (Yes I look in the mirror when I say that). So when you say "I want to discuss cross dressing." even though you think you said "Let us discuss my crossdressing" the emphasis is on "I".

[BRANDYJ]

=ReineD;2766418

Sorry, but Katesback's black and white views really frosted me.

As usual ReineD, A great post. And to be honest, Katesback's post frosted me too. But I was kind and responded without attacking her or being harsh.

I also felt that a TS that has been there done that ( starting with crossdressing) would be more open if she dated a man that told her he liked to crossdress. I mean, he is expected to accept the fact that she is not a GG and has delt with issues far beyond what most CD's ever face. Like it was OK for me, but not for you. Odd.

[Eryn]

Of course not ALL CDs are like this but I got to say that the countless ones I met ALL and I mean ALL stived to get to go out to the gay bars and shopping.

Why is it that your disclaimers are usually attached to absolute statements that are far from reality?
Perhaps your social group likes gay bars but that is hardly universal. I don't care much for bars of any kind and that is accentuated by a desire to keep my wits around me when out dressed.

Shopping for me is another story, but I would imagine that there are quite a few CDers who don't enjoy it as I do.


I dont get it - what is it with all this shopping crap? I like to think I'm a normal genetic female and I really dont like shopping that much...

That question is fairly easy to answer. There are actually several reasons.

First, some CDers are attracted to the image of women as portrayed by the media. Most of those women are avid shoppers so we tend to emulate them.

Second, at the beginning a CDer is starting from scratch. She doesn't have an ongoing inventory in her closet. Sometimes we really do need an item or two to complete an outfit.

Third, shopping is a controlled environment where we can participate in an activity that we view as feminine without too much stressful interaction with others. It takes time to develop confidence in one's presentation and during that period it is best to keep interactions short and within a controlled range. Shopping meets this need.

Note that shopping is not always synonymous with buying. Mimi and I often walk out of stores empty-handed and don't feel at all disappointed to do so.

[Jill Devine]

As usual ReineD, A great post. And to be honest, Katesback's post frosted me too. But I was kind and responded without attacking her or being harsh.

I also felt that a TS that has been there done that ( starting with crossdressing) would be more open if she dated a man that told her he liked to crossdress. I mean, he is expected to accept the fact that she is not a GG and has delt with issues far beyond what most CD's ever face. Like it was OK for me, but not for you. Odd.
Agree a million percent. I am amazed that someone who basically NEEDS tolerance and acceptance is so intolerant. Fact is that most regular guys would have a problem marrying a transsexual. Just like most regular GGs would have a problem marrying a CD. All we can hope and pray for is that we are blessed to meet an open minded caring person in life.

I know I was blessed to meet my wife. Love her to bits.

[Katesback]

Yes it is probably a fact that most guys would not want to date a TS. That is thier choice as well. I dont have to like it but they have a right to make this choice. I was in the CD section talking about CD related topics. Seemed appropriate for this section. I have however said in the TS section the same thing you said. And a TS that is Pre OP is REALLY got next to no chance to meet a good straight man.


As far as needing tollerance. I dont need it. I personally could care less what people think but then I dont genereally get crap from people. Perhaps I am lucky. Perhaps I scare people because I am in decent shape and can leg press 765 pounds and do calf raises with 200 pounds. Perhaps because I play a full contact sport against 20 something women that want to run me over I have an inner strength. Perhaps because I was in law enforcement for a while I feel I can handle a lot of crap. Perhaps because I carry something between my boobs that is NOT a knife I feel I can take care of myself. Who knows.


Now as far as you all that are sitting here trying your best to discredit me. Well I stand on my statment that all crossdressers escalate. I have a feeling that all the wives would agree with it and there are countless stories about this. Does that mean that they will want to have sex with a man or another CD?

No it does not.......... but then I am keenly aware of the depth that some CDs go. Some even take on a completely different personality (when the wife is not around) than thier male self and will take the idea of being a woman to the fantastical level which sometimes includes having sex. It is NO secret that lots of sex happens at trans conferences. Thats why you see all the tranny chasers at the bar downstairs and they are busy. You sit there and you can watch them hook up with a girl and go up to the rooms and come back a bit later for the next girl. These guys at the conference get as much sex as they want and anyone who has been to the conferences can tell you I am right. come to think of it the two times I went to Southern Comfort I was propositioned many times while there. Mostly by CDs.

Does that mean that you as a CD are interested in sex? Of course not. It just means that some CDs do take it that far. Just like a percentage of CDs are really TS but will not admit it for various reasons. We have all knowns CDs that after the divorce turn into TS almost immediately. Ever notice that most CDs are married? Could that be a coincidence or are they really TS but dont want to admit it because thats the kiss of death for marriage. Call any CD related business and ask what thier big sellers are. Your response will be the psudo hormones. Wait a minnute I thought CDs dont want to transition. Why would a CD want to buy psudo hormones if they are not TS?

I am sorry guys but I am just keeping it real. I am not presenting as much my opinion as facts. I cannot tell you how many CDs have come to me when I was working with trans people and since they knew that our conversation was a privledged one they were there to tell me thier real feelings. Many yearned to begin transition and become a woman because they were TS. It's just the facts guys.

Now its your turn to try to discredit me but then its hard to argue with the facts. I am more of a champion of CDs than I am for TS girls. Most of them are so messed up you cant help them. But CDs tend to live a reasonable existance. I just wish they would stand up for thier rights and come into the world instead of hiding in closets. Take the losses that come with hard decisions and live thier lives as they see fit instead of often being miserable and unhappy and often making thier wives unhappy along with them.

Katie






Agree a million percent. I am amazed that someone who basically NEEDS tolerance and



acceptance is so intolerant. Fact is that most regular guys would have a problem marrying a transsexual. Just like most regular GGs would have a problem marrying a CD. All we can hope and pray for is that we are blessed to meet an open minded caring person in life.

I know I was blessed to meet my wife. Love her to bits.

[whowhatwhen]

I'm not going to discredit your post, hell, you know more than I do about this stuff but "escalation" seems a bit odd to me.
I thought the point of crossdressing was to look female, so escalating from wearing stockings to shaving legs feels like a non issue.

A partner may take issue with it, but why be surprised if you know that your spouse is a crossdresser?
To me, saying "no you can't shave your legs" is as good as saying "don't crossdress at all" because they're necessary escalations.

It's all in all tragic because society forced him to lie, and now his wife ends up being dragged in.
But, if it's going to be big enough of a deal then why live a hollow marriage where he can't express himself and she's feeling betrayed?

I do wonder how many CDs are actually TS though, it can't be that high can it?

[Katesback]

I agree with you on the point of crossdressing is to look female. The discussion about escalation pertains to the CD that tells the wife or she finds out some other way. They then sell the CD thing as being happy wearing panties, or some minor aspect. The Problem is that they want to emulate a woman so yes they do keep pusing and pushing for more privledges well beayond the origial panties at home sell. Of course most wifes have no idea that this is going to happen and so they get blindsided.

And it all goes back to the fact that both the wife and the CD should have the right to be who they are and with who they want. Any sanctions placed upon the CD only adds problems and any freedoms that the CD fights for adds problems from the wives side. Divorce typically end the relationship and deep down its probably a good thing for both parties because they get to live thier lives as they see fit.

Now if crossdressers were to stand up and fight for thier rights and go out into the world and demonstrate thier activities to the mass population then over time they would be more shall I say accepted. Problem is that I rarely have ever seen a CD out in the normal public and so the perpetuation of deviant behavior will remain for the forseeable future. Remember gay men were once put out to be child molesters in the 1950s public services announcements. Today after standing up for thier rights the story is different.

Katie




I'm not going to discredit your post, hell, you know more than I do about this stuff but "escalation" seems a bit odd to me.
I thought the point of crossdressing was to look female, so escalating from wearing stockings to shaving legs feels like a non issue.

A partner may take issue with it, but why be surprised if you know that your spouse is a crossdresser?
To me, saying "no you can't shave your legs" is as good as saying "don't crossdress at all" because they're necessary escalations.

It's all in all tragic because society forced him to lie, and now his wife ends up being dragged in.
But, if it's going to be big enough of a deal then why live a hollow marriage where he can't express himself and she's feeling betrayed?

I do wonder how many CDs are actually TS though, it can't be that high can it?

[rhonda]

Let face facts a women marries a man then finds out he wants to be women look alike ,or women, she has been deceived she didn't want a women very few if any will accept it so get a new women or man

[Jacqueline Winona]

Kate, I think you're painting with way to broad a brush on this one, and while I saw some merit in your original post, you lost me with the broad pronouncements about how "all CD's" want this or that, we can't even agree on whether dressing is something we can control. :) Regardless, your opinion is your opinion and you are entitled to it, regardless of how cynical many of us find it.

[Sarasometimes]

I'm sort of in the same place. years ago in my computer stupidity phase she found the history of this forum. She asked me why "I said i 'm interested in it." Reply "Well it is late, I'm going to bed." I had a sleepless night (as I should have) and in the morning there was no mention of this. he dropped it. My thoughts were that if she wants to involve herself she would ask. I didn't think my desire to talk about it trumped her choice to let it drop. We live happily under the don't ask don't tell concept. would i like you love to have her participate but that would be asking more of her than I'm willing to do. if you push it she may say, "Stop or I will leave." if you want her to be a part of it, isn't that the same as if she asked you to stop??? Consider the risks of pushing her into an uncomfortable position, she may leave. If that option is better than what you have now, you decide. Do remember it is tough to put a lid back on a can of worms you opened.
You mention that she is conservative so how could you think it would be easy for her to accept this. She has probably done a heck of a lot of tongue bitting over 9 years. Let sleeping dogs lie unless you are willing to accept her answer to your crossdressing. Why does she have to be accepting and not just have you stop. Another option is for you to see a counseler who knows these issues very well.
Good luck!

[Katesback]

See a counselor? Ya think that the wife wants to go to a counselor? Or more importantly what if the wife refuses to go to a counselor? I mean there is really nothing wrong with her and the CD really has nothing wrong with him.

If I had to take a bet here I would say the wife would not have any interest in going to a counselor.......... except if say the CD said he was going to five for divorce or something. Perhaps that would wake her up. Of course the CD LOVES his wife and does not want a divorce so I doubt anything will happen anytime soon.

Katie








I'm sort of in the same place. years ago in my computer stupidity phase she found the history of this forum. She asked me why "I said i 'm interested in it." Reply "Well it is late, I'm going to bed." I had a sleepless night (as I should have) and in the morning there was no mention of this. he dropped it. My thoughts were that if she wants to involve herself she would ask. I didn't think my desire to talk about it trumped her choice to let it drop. We live happily under the don't ask don't tell concept. would i like you love to have her participate but that would be asking more of her than I'm willing to do. if you push it she may say, "Stop or I will leave." if you want her to be a part of it, isn't that the same as if she asked you to stop??? Consider the risks of pushing her into an uncomfortable position, she may leave. If that option is better than what you have now, you decide. Do remember it is tough to put a lid back on a can of worms you opened.
You mention that she is conservative so how could you think it would be easy for her to accept this. She has probably done a heck of a lot of tongue bitting over 9 years. Let sleeping dogs lie unless you are willing to accept her answer to your crossdressing. Why does she have to be accepting and not just have you stop. Another option is for you to see a counseler who knows these issues very well.
Good luck!

[kimdl93]

Rose's advice is good. it would be better to try to discuss her fears and perhaps try to debunk any misconceptions she has about CDing generally, before getting into specifics.

If the conversation is primarily about what you want, then her issues are never addressed or resolved and you come off as self-centered.

Finally, if your wife is ultra conservative, then you're are fighting against some deeply entrenched ideas, ideas that are often resistant to change. Good luck with that.

[Marleena]

See a counselor? Ya think that the wife wants to go to a counselor? Or more importantly what if the wife refuses to go to a counselor? I mean there is really nothing wrong with her and the CD really has nothing wrong with him.

If I had to take a bet here I would say the wife would not have any interest in going to a counselor.......... except if say the CD said he was going to five for divorce or something. Perhaps that would wake her up. Of course the CD LOVES his wife and does not want a divorce so I doubt anything will happen anytime soon.

Katie

I think this pretty much sums everything up. The only hope seems to be a counselor to get the two of them talking with each other.

[Katesback]

What I think some of you are overlooking is the fact that some people do not change. Some people have rock solid convictions. A counselor will do noting to change this. I am unyielding on religion. I have no interest in it. I dont want to hear about it, and a counselor will not change my convictions.

Let me tell you a story. When I began transiton I lost all the people I knew before. I have not talked my my Sister in years. She has her convictions and I dont have any reason to believe a counselor can help her. Theres nothing wrong with her! I have not talked to my parents in years also. Same story.

People are not easy to re-program thier minds. Thats probably one of the reason I preach to TS girls to learn to keep thier mouths shut about trans stuff with no trans people. Non trans people generally dont want to hear about us. A better form of activism is to just live your live in the eyes of the world and let them see you as a normal person. Same applies to the Cds that have some idea of telling people about being CD. I tell you what if your not intending to show them the girl, theres no point in talking to other people about it. Talk to your trans friends but not non trans people. They dont want to hear about it.





I think this pretty much sums everything up. The only hope seems to be a counselor to get the two of them talking with each other.

[Asche]

Rose's advice is good. it would be better to try to discuss her fears and perhaps try to debunk any misconceptions she has about CDing generally, before getting into specifics.
Do we have any reason to believe that "fears" are involved, especially debunkable ones? Do we have any reason to believe that her objections are rooted in ignorance? My impression is that she simply wants no part of renea's CDing, and the more she learns about it, the less she likes it. The friction comes because renae keeps asking her to participate in his CDing, despite her very clear message that this is a hard limit for her. The talk of "discussing her fears" comes off, frankly, as patronizing.

If I were in her position, I would also be unwilling to talk about it, because I would assume that the purpose of any conversation would be to talk me out of my feelings. I'm sure she feels at a disadvantage in the situation, because she can't stop renea from doing what he wants, or even get him to take her feelings seriously. Furthermore, if she has grown up in a conservative culture, she's probably learned that a woman's feelings and needs don't count for much when measured against a man's.

I can't help remembering how, every now and then, someone posts an article asking the CDs here how they would feel if their wife/SO decided they wanted to "be a man" part-time. Most of the CDs have indicated they would not be very accepting of it.

So it seems to me that there's no small amount of sexism and sense of entitlement in the idea that all it takes is to really explain to a woman how important her SO's/husbands CDing is to him, and she will simply put aside her objections and distaste and learn to at least be a good sport about her hubby's new "hobby."

[Marleena]

What I think some of you are overlooking is the fact that some people do not change. Some people have rock solid convictions. A counselor will do noting to change this. I am unyielding on religion. I have no interest in it. I dont want to hear about it, and a counselor will not change my convictions.

Let me tell you a story. When I began transiton I lost all the people I knew before. I have not talked my my Sister in years. She has her convictions and I dont have any reason to believe a counselor can help her. Theres nothing wrong with her! I have not talked to my parents in years also. Same story.

People are not easy to re-program thier minds. Thats probably one of the reason I preach to TS girls to learn to keep thier mouths shut about trans stuff with no trans people. Non trans people generally dont want to hear about us. A better form of activism is to just live your live in the eyes of the world and let them see you as a normal person. Same applies to the Cds that have some idea of telling people about being CD. I tell you what if your not intending to show them the girl, theres no point in talking to other people about it. Talk to your trans friends but not non trans people. They dont want to hear about it.

I totally get it. I just hate telling people a situation is hopeless, in this case the OP. It's one of my quirks I guess..

[BRANDYJ]

The OP has not responded and has not even been to this site for 2 days, so I guess he got the suggestions he needed and has moved on. So it looks like the OP is the one that does not want to talk about it.

[Joanne f]

What I think some of you are overlooking is the fact that some people do not change. Some people have rock solid convictions. A counselor will do noting to change this. I am unyielding on religion. I have no interest in it. I dont want to hear about it, and a counselor will not change my convictions.

Let me tell you a story. When I began transiton I lost all the people I knew before. I have not talked my my Sister in years. She has her convictions and I dont have any reason to believe a counselor can help her. Theres nothing wrong with her! I have not talked to my parents in years also. Same story.

People are not easy to re-program thier minds. Thats probably one of the reason I preach to TS girls to learn to keep thier mouths shut about trans stuff with no trans people. Non trans people generally dont want to hear about us. A better form of activism is to just live your live in the eyes of the world and let them see you as a normal person. Same applies to the Cds that have some idea of telling people about being CD. I tell you what if your not intending to show them the girl, theres no point in talking to other people about it. Talk to your trans friends but not non trans people. They dont want to hear about it.
I agree with you in that some people can never change their convictions and it would be wrong to try to do that but what if there was another way in that a third party might help them understand why the other person needs to do what they have to , you may then get some dialogue going on between them about the situation .
By the way i am English so i must admit that i do not understand this therapist/counselling thing .
I also agree with this as the only people who will understand are the one`s who have or are going thought it but that should not stop some others from trying to understand it .

[Badtranny]

I'm going to say something that I want everyone to forget immediately; I agree with Kate.

I guess it was only a matter of time before the "Voice of Experience"tm took a position that I can't argue with, but at least she still did it in her patented take no prisoners style.

It takes guts to live an authentic life. Winners blame themselves, losers blame their circumstances.

[whowhatwhen]

Iono, sometimes it's better not to rock the boat in shark infested waters.
Wait, what the hell am I thinking anyway?