Have you started hormones to manage your GID and not gone any further?

[Charla]

I've read that one way of confirming GID is for the physician to prescribe hormones - and if you feel better that is a strong indicator of GID. What if you don't want to transition - is there a minimal dose of hormones that can be prescribed such that your emotional need is met but with minimal physical change? Thanks!

[Bree-asaurus]

I've read that one way of confirming GID is for the physician to prescribe hormones - and if you feel better that is a strong indicator of GID. What if you don't want to transition - is there a minimal dose of hormones that can be prescribed such that your emotional need is met but with minimal physical change? Thanks!

You're going to have to find that one out for yourself...

[Anna Lorree]

I have read that there are, but it's not easy information to find. I will likely be asking a doctor about this in the next few months. My guess is that they can try to reduce the dose to the lowest possible level that gives relief, but there will still be some physical effects.

Anna

[elizabethamy]

Charla,

Please keep me posted if you hear more about this. I posted a related question the other day and am curious about whether this works, too. My hunch is that alleviating my gender dysphoria without essentially blowing up my entire conventional male life is a fantasy that can't come true, but if what you suggest really works, wow.

[Michelle.M]

You may find some insight here:

http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf

[Bree-asaurus]

My thoughts are that if you try something like this and it does make you feel better, it's not going to leave you content for very long. I think that instead, it will make you realize that the more you do to align your internal gender with your external sex, the more in-tune with yourself you will feel. I know that through my transition, I only took steps forward when I NEEDED to. Every step I took made me feel content for a short period, but wasn't enough to "solve" my problems.

Give it a shot... you can start with light doses and increase them as you see fit. But if you are transexual and considering any amount of change, be prepared to go all the way.

I didn't want to transition. I had to transition.

[elizabethamy]

My heart tells me you are right, Bree. But at key moments in my life, my heart has sometimes been an idiot ...

[Bree-asaurus]

My heart tells me you are right, Bree. But at key moments in my life, my heart has sometimes been an idiot ...

Well, the only way to know for sure is to try it for yourself...

[JohnH]

Hey, if you feel good taking the hormones, why in the world would you want to go only half way? In my personal experience I cannot imagine going half way as far as the medication is concerned.

Johanna (John)

[Anna Lorree]

Hey, if you feel good taking the hormones, why in the world would you want to go only half way? In my personal experience I cannot imagine going half way as far as the medication is concerned.

Johanna (John)

Because I love my wife more than anybody in the world, but she isn't a lesbian. I have no more right to ask her to be what she isn't (a lesbian) than she has to ask me to be what I am not (a cis-gendered man). This is where things get complicated. If I figure out that I am TS and I don't transition, I spend the rest of my life in increasing misery. If I figure out that I am TS and I do transition, I lose her. Either way, I lose something. That is why I would consider only going as far as I have to.

Anna

[Bree-asaurus]

Because I love my wife more than anybody in the world, but she isn't a lesbian. I have no more right to ask her to be what she isn't (a lesbian) than she has to ask me to be what I am not (a cis-gendered man). This is where things get complicated. If I figure out that I am TS and I don't transition, I spend the rest of my life in increasing misery. If I figure out that I am TS and I do transition, I lose her. Either way, I lose something. That is why I would consider only going as far as I have to.

Anna

Such is the curse of being transexual... :/

[Anna Lorree]

Such is the curse of being transexual... :/

So you and many others here have advised me (and thank you to you Bree, and all of the other TS women here who have done so), and it frightens me to no end. Right now, figuring out that I am TS is the one thing that brings me the most anxiety. All of that said, if I do figure out that I am TS and my wife does feel the need to divorce me, I would then go as far as I could. Then there would be nothing to hold me back. But until then, I am going to try everything I can to keep her.

Anna

[Bree-asaurus]

So you and many others here have advised me (and thank you to you Bree, and all of the other TS women here who have done so), and it frightens me to no end. Right now, figuring out that I am TS is the one thing that brings me the most anxiety. All of that said, if I do figure out that I am TS and my wife does feel the need to divorce me, I would then go as far as I could. Then there would be nothing to hold me back. But until then, I am going to try everything I can to keep her.

Anna

Just do what you need to do to be content and as happy as you can be... regardless of the path you take.

[Stephenie S]

Taking a small dose of hormones is not so strange as it may sound. It is commonly done for people who do not want to transition and yet are suffering from GID.

We have a member on this forum who I know personally who is doing this in conjunction with therapy. So far it seems to be working well. If she desires to be identified she can come forward herself.

I would say that a good therapist is important in such cases.

S

[Anna Lorree]

Taking a small dose of hormones is not so strange as it may sound. It is commonly done for people who do not want to transition and yet are suffering from GID.

We have a member on this forum who I know personally who is doing this in conjunction with therapy. So far it seems to be working well. If she desires to be identified she can come forward herself.

I would say that a good therapist is important in such cases.

S

Whomever she is, I would love to talk to her via PM if possible.

Anna

[Anna Lorree]

Just do what you need to do to be content and as happy as you can be... regardless of the path you take.

:) Thanks again Bree, I hope to be happy.

Anna

[JohnH]

Because I love my wife more than anybody in the world, but she isn't a lesbian. I have no more right to ask her to be what she isn't (a lesbian) than she has to ask me to be what I am not (a cis-gendered man). This is where things get complicated. If I figure out that I am TS and I don't transition, I spend the rest of my life in increasing misery. If I figure out that I am TS and I do transition, I lose her. Either way, I lose something. That is why I would consider only going as far as I have to.

Anna

My wife suggested my going on the hormones in the first place! And not only that, she wants me to continue. So I will not lose her even if I fully transition (which I don't think will happen - I REALLY want to retain my masculine bass voice even as my appearance becomes more and more feminine).

[Anna Lorree]

My wife suggested my going on the hormones in the first place! And not only that, she wants me to continue. So I will not lose her even if I fully transition (which I don't think will happen - I REALLY want to retain my masculine bass voice even as my appearance becomes more and more feminine).

Then you are very fortunate, indeed!

Anna

[Amber99]

My Endocrinologist told me she had two patients who were doing just that, on low doses just to help with GID without transitioning. I feel like it certainly isn't something for everyone but it might work for some people?

[Hope]

Because I love my wife more than anybody in the world, but she isn't a lesbian. I have no more right to ask her to be what she isn't (a lesbian) than she has to ask me to be what I am not (a cis-gendered man). This is where things get complicated. If I figure out that I am TS and I don't transition, I spend the rest of my life in increasing misery. If I figure out that I am TS and I do transition, I lose her. Either way, I lose something. That is why I would consider only going as far as I have to.

Anna

You know... MOST people are bisexual to some extent... Your wife may well be one of them...

[Julia_in_Pa]

Charla,

I started HRT in early 2001 and didn't successfully transition until December of 2006.
The hormone therapy was always needed by me to not only control my GID but to also prepare myself for my transition.

I have read on many online forums of those that take HRT for it's effects but desire to go no further.

You will have to find mental and medical resources in order to have your questions assessed correctly for your own journey Charla.

[Cindi Johnson]

I've been taking small dosage of hormones for five years now, at least. I started while I was in Argentina, where the medication was over-the-counter. After that, I've bought my meds via internet. I've never had a doctor involved. And yes, for me, it made a BIG difference in my GID. Suddenly that intense need to dress was just..., gone!

But now I'm out and about most every day, as a woman. For although I don't have that intense urge, now I just feel so much more comfortable when I'm presenting myself as a woman. As if it's only then that I'm being honest to myself and the world. As if I'm a phony, a mere pretender, when I'm out as a male. Now, crossdressing is not really a sexual desire, it's just the right thing to do.

And there have been physical changes (fat on thighs, small breasts, softer face, etc.). And it changed my thinking, too: now, for example, just the thought of having body hair is enough to make me almost retch.

Anyway, this small dose of oral hormones has made me a happier person. At peace with the world, at last.

But would a bit of hormones save your marriage??? Ahh..., not necessarily. Even if hormones allow you to better control your urge to crossdress, your spouse may not be very happy with the new you.

For us TG's, it seems, there is seldom a perfect solution. Not even a good solution. Maybe there is no solution.

[Aprilrain]

To answer your title, no I have not not gone further. I did however start hormones thinking I could quit if I didn't like them, so in a sense I used hormones as a diagnotic tool.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

My wife suggested my going on the hormones in the first place! And not only that, she wants me to continue. So I will not lose her even if I fully transition (which I don't think will happen - I REALLY want to retain my masculine bass voice even as my appearance becomes more and more feminine).

hormones do not change your voice at all.

[JohnH]

hormones do not change your voice at all.

Yes, I realize estrogen does not change the voice at all - thank goodness.

However, if a male habitually speaks with the voice pitch of a typical woman and gets the larynx trained in that range it becomes difficult or impossible to speak and presumably sing in the native male range. I do not want that to happen so changing the pitch of my speaking voice is out. So I settle on speaking an octave below a genetic woman but will adopt otherwise feminine speech patterns.

Johanna (John)

[Charla]

Charla,

I started HRT in early 2001 and didn't successfully transition until December of 2006.
The hormone therapy was always needed by me to not only control my GID but to also prepare myself for my transition.

I have read on many online forums of those that take HRT for it's effects but desire to go no further.

You will have to find mental and medical resources in order to have your questions assessed correctly for your own journey Charla.

Julia,

Thanks for the encouragement. That is the route i am taking right now - to find the right counsel and medical staff to give me guidance. The response from the ladies here are helping me judge what is reasonable and what (kind of ) to expect. I am finding a lot of commonality with the way most are expressing themselves - that one gets to a point where it is no longer a want but a NEED to transition.

[Charla]

Now, crossdressing is not really a sexual desire, it's just the right thing to do.

And there have been physical changes (fat on thighs, small breasts, softer face, etc.). And it changed my thinking, too: now, for example, just the thought of having body hair is enough to make me almost retch.

Anyway, this small dose of oral hormones has made me a happier person. At peace with the world, at last.

But would a bit of hormones save your marriage??? Ahh..., not necessarily. Even if hormones allow you to better control your urge to crossdress, your spouse may not be very happy with the new you.

For us TG's, it seems, there is seldom a perfect solution. Not even a good solution. Maybe there is no solution.

I am at the point where crossdressing is not sexually exciting, it feels right to at least under-dress and weird to have on male clothes.

I am looking for that balance where I can maintain my marriage and yet find happiness for me. I don't pretend to think I am a good candidate for transitioning but there has to be a happy medium somewhere!

[Anna Lorree]

You know... MOST people are bisexual to some extent... Your wife may well be one of them...

She states quite emphatically that she is not. Trust me, I asked that question a LONG time ago.

Anna

[Anna Lorree]

I am at the point where crossdressing is not sexually exciting, it feels right to at least under-dress and weird to have on male clothes.

I am looking for that balance where I can maintain my marriage and yet find happiness for me. I don't pretend to think I am a good candidate for transitioning but there has to be a happy medium somewhere!

Ditto, sister. I am looking for the same thing.

Anna

[Aprilrain]

To answer your title, no I have not not gone further. I did however start hormones thinking I could quit if I didn't like them, so in a sense I used hormones as a diagnotic tool.

Some people have misinterpreted my post, I apologize if it is vague I'll try to explain further.

Yes, I have gone further, I've had FFS and plan on a full transition, SRS, BA, next year. Apparently some people missed the double negative, not not. Sorry about that.

When I started taking hormones, I rationalized that I could stop if I didn't like the results. It was a way for my mind to protect itself from the very scary proposition of transitioning but in my heart of hearts I knew there was no going back. I've never taken anything but transition level doses of HRT.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Some people have misinterpreted my post, I apologize if it is vague I'll try to explain further.

Yes, I have gone further, I've had FFS and plan on a full transition, SRS, BA, next year. Apparently some people missed the double negative, not not. Sorry about that.

When I started taking hormones, I rationalized that I could stop if I didn't like the results. It was a way for my mind to protect itself from the very scary proposition of transitioning but in my heart of hearts I knew there was no going back. I've never taken anything but transition level doses of HRT.

Anna are you listening?? :hugs:
Based on Charla's experience...would your wife be happy with you feeling weird in male clothes? happy that by mitigating your GID you are basically internally becoming and expressing the woman that you are??

From a logical perspective its a really tough thing.. there is such a huge difference between mitigating GID and everything else...perhaps super small doses work?

IF you are TS, and you take HRT just to relieve GID..over and over, you see the same things..its not something that does a good job of STOPPING you from transition..and like april, i'd assert that usually you know you really don't want to stop..you are just greasing the skids for transition without admitting it to yourself or anyone else.....and that in many cases it makes you realize that you NEED to transition....this is just the way it is...its cold comfort..

...and if you are married, and you talk your wife into HRT just to get rid of the GID, imagine your distress when in 12 months all you've done is intensified your need to live your real life..all you've done is create a deeper hole.. btw..the answer here is brutal honesty...if you are honest with her and tell her that this is a crap shoot, that the risks are real, then you have the best shot of getting her support if this happens...

IF you are NOT TS...its a tough thing to justify to loved ones as necessary...if may help with GID, it may not...it may also confuse things terribly, its a health risk, and after a period of time, the impact gets more and more permanent..

It's a viable tactic, but its a hail mary pass, and if you are in a relationship you can be hopeful for sure, but also should be realistic..having gone through this, seeing so many people go through this, i'm a realist

===========================
I wonder sara jessica do you take HRT?...you may want to pipe in because you are not transitioning and may want to touch base with Anna about it...i can only speak from my own experience and observations

[Anna Lorree]

Anna are you listening?? :hugs:
Based on Charla's experience...would your wife be happy with you feeling weird in male clothes? happy that by mitigating your GID you are basically internally becoming and expressing the woman that you are??

From a logical perspective its a really tough thing.. there is such a huge difference between mitigating GID and everything else...perhaps super small doses work?

IF you are TS, and you take HRT just to relieve GID..over and over, you see the same things..its not something that does a good job of STOPPING you from transition..and like april, i'd assert that usually you know you really don't want to stop..you are just greasing the skids for transition without admitting it to yourself or anyone else.....and that in many cases it makes you realize that you NEED to transition....this is just the way it is...its cold comfort..

...and if you are married, and you talk your wife into HRT just to get rid of the GID, imagine your distress when in 12 months all you've done is intensified your need to live your real life..all you've done is create a deeper hole.. btw..the answer here is brutal honesty...if you are honest with her and tell her that this is a crap shoot, that the risks are real, then you have the best shot of getting her support if this happens...

IF you are NOT TS...its a tough thing to justify to loved ones as necessary...if may help with GID, it may not...it may also confuse things terribly, its a health risk, and after a period of time, the impact gets more and more permanent..

It's a viable tactic, but its a hail mary pass, and if you are in a relationship you can be hopeful for sure, but also should be realistic..having gone through this, seeing so many people go through this, i'm a realist

===========================
I wonder sara jessica do you take HRT?...you may want to pipe in because you are not transitioning and may want to touch base with Anna about it...i can only speak from my own experience and observations

Argh, this sucks so bad! Would hormones help me? I don't know, the only way to know is to try them. If I do try them, I might find it is just another step further along and not a destination. So do I not treat myself because of what might or might not happen?

Like Charla I underdress all of the time that I am not on duty at work. I prefer female undergarments to male simply because I know they are female and that comforts me. I am being honest with my wife, she knows I am considering low dose estrogen. She has asked to go along with me if I make an appointment to talk to the doctor, and I will honor her request. I always try to do the right thing, but this time I am confronted by a question: The right thing for whom?

What is the most right?

Anna

[CharleneT]

To answer the original question (sorta), I do not believe that HRT is a good idea for "testing whether you are TS" or however you might put it. I think it is possible that you could end up going pretty far down a path that was not for you - only to discover that late or too late.

[Bree-asaurus]

I always try to do the right thing, but this time I am confronted by a question: The right thing for whom?

What is the most right?

Well... that is something you need to ask yourself, not us. What are you willing to live with?

It's going to take some time, working through your internal struggles and being honest with yourself to find this out.

Many transexuals face the decision that this can eventually come down to staying with their wife to keep their relationship going while having to suffer alone with whatever issues they have, or separating so they can live their life as who they really are without those nasty internal struggles (assuming the wife can't stay with them through the transition).

[elizabethamy]

Anna, I have no real insight to offer except to say that we appear to be in the same boat. It seems very clear to me that this is a boat that my wife does not want to ride in...in a way this might be the toughest moment of all. It's one thing to contain your cd-ing to a level she can stand, and another to go beyond the boundaries and threaten collapse of your marriage and who knows what else. This feels like that first step too far for her -- even if it's a "low dose," a "Diagnostic," an "attempt to relieve anxiety," whatever it's called.

I don't know what to do in my own case, or yours, but perhaps we can lean on each other to keep from falling down.

elizabethamy

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Well... that is something you need to ask yourself, not us. What are you willing to live with?

It's going to take some time, working through your internal struggles and being honest with yourself to find this out.

Many transexuals face the decision that this can eventually come down to staying with their wife to keep their relationship going while having to suffer alone with whatever issues they have, or separating so they can live their life as who they really are without those nasty internal struggles (assuming the wife can't stay with them through the transition).

You are already in this boat.
It's like people that are already bankrupt but don't know it yet..just living on borrowed time and borrowed money...

In the end gals you have to either take the risk or not..your wife either supports you or not...it either works for you or not..

nobody can answer these hard question except you..

Altho i know i've been kinda dark in my comments on this thread...i'd prefer to know the risks before i leaped... just by talking to your wife about this stuff you are already pushing

It's crazy stuff, but by simply knowing everything you can know, and having everything on the table openly from day one gives you and your wife the best chance for the best outcome for both of you..

being honest with yourself is the first and biggest step

If you are a woman, sooner or later (and once the GID starts................) it catches up to you if you are living as a man.:hugs:

[LaurenS.]

Hi,
Let me say that I think that Kaitlyn has this pretty well figured out. I started on low does hormones 3 years ago because I had read that
it would help me to "deal" with the intensity of the desire to dress. I had pretty well figured out that I was TS but saw transitioning as an impossibility.
After being on hormones for a couple months I felt relief fron the intense desire to dress all the time....but...it now made me feel more feminine all the time.
I know some will question what does feminine feel like...but let's just go with it if you will. The love of this feeling made me want more and I have steadily
increased my hormone levels (all thru an endocrinologist) and now my hormone levels are within female range and my desire/need to transition is at it's peak.
I tell you this because for me, low dose hormones helped me initially but the relief was short lived. I would transition without hesitation if I didn't feel I
would ruin the lives of my immediate family. But that's another issue. I am willing to suffer, yes I said suffer, thru the rest of my life to protect my family.
Somedays are difficult to get through but all in all I'm doing OK. My point is this.....I don't believe hormones should or need to be used to test for TS.
Also FOR ME low doses brought me temporary relief. My relationship with my wife isn't ruined but it certainly has changed and not for the better. My life
certainly has changed but I guess how many of us live happily ever after? I know there are many but.....
LIfe is diffcult and these decisions are extremely tough. Maybe low does didn't work for me because I am weak and just wanted more. Maybe for you it would work.
We all have the basic same story but we are all so different in so many ways. I write to try and help but I fear I will only help to confuse. None of us have even mentiioned
other issuse that come with hormones. But that's another story.
Good luck to you and God bless.
Kaitlyn you are so right about so much.

Lauren

[LeaP]

Lauren, the question that always pops into my head when I read a post like yours is this: What does your suffering say about those who would allow it? (i.e. other than you) Or is your suffering not known, a self-sacrifice? If the latter, why is illusion better than reality? I always wonder about unforeseen consequences with this path too. There are instances of trans children in forum discussions, for example, where I have questioned whether the child's path may have been easier had he or she known about their parent.

OT - I've read several references to hormones confirming a GID diagnosis - but not using it TO diagnose. Putting someone on something like hormones for that purpose with the risks they carry - not to mention the possibility of permanent changes - strikes me as unethical.

Low estrogen doses without a T blocker sounds rather like maintaining a fire in the rain. You can do it, but it isn't very satisfactory. And low doses with a blocker presents other kinds of risk.

Lea

[elizabethamy]

Lea, I think the hard part is what you have to weigh -- is feminization and/or transition worth giving up your family, your job, etc. If not, then you have to continue "suffering," at least to some extent. So the hormones can alleviate the anxiety of GID, but they will begin what Hope memorably calls the "trans acceleration." And for some, that might be suffering in a different form? I don't see a use of low doses of hormones as diagnostic as evil exactly, but I think anyone who does submit to that has to be honest with himself and herself (!) about what the point is. That is, why hormones if you don't want to feminize? Is that realistic, or another self-deception of the kind at which virtually all closet TG's are so adept? arggh.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Yes, I realize estrogen does not change the voice at all - thank goodness.

However, if a male habitually speaks with the voice pitch of a typical woman and gets the larynx trained in that range it becomes difficult or impossible to speak and presumably sing in the native male range. I do not want that to happen so changing the pitch of my speaking voice is out. So I settle on speaking an octave below a genetic woman but will adopt otherwise feminine speech patterns.

Johanna (John)

I am not sure how you are going to pull that one off when in female mode. If you sound like "Froggy" from The Little Rascals, you are not going to pass as a female.

[LeaP]

I think the hard part is what you have to weigh -- is feminization and/or transition worth giving up your family, your job, etc. If not, then you have to continue "suffering," at least to some extent.

Maybe and maybe not, but none of this addresses my questions.

On your other point re: motivation. Anyone whose identity issues don't tip into the transsexual category should not be toying with hormones (and I don't mean herbals). A male-identified person taking cross-sex hormones is almost certainly self-medicating and needs to be unconfused by someone.

Lea

[elizabethamy]

"What does your suffering say about those who would allow it? (i.e. other than you) Or is your suffering not known, a self-sacrifice? If the latter, why is illusion better than reality?" (Lea)

Lea, those are huge questions....my answer, or at least the one I'm living, is that from my SO there is not a desire to allow me to suffer so much as a fear that this will take us both down -- that she will suffer, unquestionably, at the loss of our life together, and that I will suffer when (if) I discover that after all that loss, the theoretical grass is no greener on the other side...but I think both of us are doing enough silent suffering -- it's impossible to know how much is going on inside another person....

...so... hormones to alleviate suffering? to me this is where i get back to weighing how much my anxiety would be alleviated vs. new anxieties (sufferings) that taking a step as big as hormones would create. so finally, is there a middle path that would hold it all together and minimize EVERYONE's sufferings, or, as Kaitlyn Michele says, are we already in the boat, moving away forever from the shores we have known, and we just haven't accepted it yet?

e

[Anna Lorree]

Maybe and maybe not, but none of this addresses my questions.

On your other point re: motivation. Anyone whose identity issues don't tip into the transsexual category should not be toying with hormones (and I don't mean herbals). A male-identified person taking cross-sex hormones is almost certainly self-medicating and needs to be unconfused by someone.

Lea

And if they don't identify as TS, yet their licensed therapist has made the option of HRT available to them?

Anna

[JohnH]

I am not sure how you are going to pull that one off when in female mode. If you sound like "Froggy" from The Little Rascals, you are not going to pass as a female.

There are genetic women with deep speaking voices. It isn't unheard of for a genetic woman to speak with a frequency of 120 Hz (about low Bb - bass staff second line). That pitch for me would not require me to change to pitch of my speaking voice much. I have to aim for resonance in the head and not in the chest and adopt a breathier, gentler approach to speech. Also I need to vary the pitch of my voice more.

Johanna (John)

[Aprilrain]

Lea, I think the hard part is what you have to weigh -- is feminization and/or transition worth giving up your family, your job, etc.

Simply put if you are transexual, yes.

There is nothing to weigh, the scale doesn't exist, its a trick of the mind. We like to believe we have "choices" westerners are especially fond of "choice". Would you like Coke or Pepsi? Transition is a life raft to a drowning person, no they don't have to climb in, they could chose to drown. Of course if they do climb aboard they may find themselves adrift at sea with very few provisions. If you have a choice NOT to transition then DON"T. If you are TS you may be able to delay the inevitable but you WILL regret that decision when you finally do transition. I've never heard a TS say, "I wish I'd waited a few more years"

[elizabethamy]

"If you are TS you may be able to delay the inevitable but you WILL regret that decision when you finally do transition." (Aprilrain)

And for those of us who haven't always known we were in the wrong body, how will that knowledge come? When will it come? That's at the core of this and several other threads...and perhaps that's another thread in and of itself (which I know has been done before at other times), but if that revelation were easy to come by, if it came in the form of unquestioned certainty, all the other decisions about what to do about it would be much less traumatic.

elizabethamy

elizabethamy

[JohnH]

Lea, I think the hard part is what you have to weigh -- is feminization and/or transition worth giving up your family, your job, etc. .

I don't have a job right now, and my wife was the one who initially suggested my going on M2F HRT and continues to support that. So I guess I am fortunate that I don't have that much to lose by feminization. I pressed her on her suggestion that I get a push-up bra and a low cut blouse, and have at least one tattoo above my breasts, and she said she was not kidding!

I am no longer suicidal. Sure I get depressed but I snap out of the depression much faster. And I wish I had started on M2F hormones much earlier in life!

Johanna

[LaurenS.]

To aswer Lea's question...Lauren, the question that always pops into my head when I read a post like yours is this: What does your suffering say about those who would allow it? (i.e. other than you)
I feel that for ME, transitioning would be too selfish an act on my part. I've put my wife thru a lot and I guess I just can't go that far. I think my daughter would deal with it but
I just feel it's too much to ask. This isn't anything they asked for. Now when I say it's too selfish and act, I don't mean those that do transition are being selfish. I envy their being able to live their life. I know they are much happier than I. I've talked to many in the community that were in my position and have transitioned and things have worked out. I guess it comes down to me not having the courage to do it. It's all so very complicated as you know. I don't write very often and when I do it's usually to try and offer some helpful advice thru knowledge or experience. Many times it only serves to cause as many questions as it answers. I have been on the brink of transitioning several times but just can't seem to get over
the selfish barrier. But believe me, I am so happy for those that can become who they really are.

Lauren

[LaurenS.]

Lea,
I'm sorry...I misread your message. You were asking about those that would allow my suffering. The level of my suffering is not known to my wife. She has no idea what I go through.
I've tried to talk to her but she doesn't really want to hear it. I suffer in silence. Sometimes it's not easy.

Lauren

[JohnH]

Lauren,

For me I feel that I can continue to function in my male capacities even though my body is increasingly becoming more feminine. After all, women in our society can do anything that a man does, including fixing cars and wearing male clothes. You don't have to doll yourself up all the time - you can wear T-shirts and jeans a lot of times - many women do so even to church. I have a femme haircut, wear clear nail polish on my fingernails, and lipstick, and I have emerging breasts. My wife ribs me good-naturedly about my breasts time to time.

You might level with your wife about your feelings and reassure her that you will continue to be her husband and not always wear feminine clothing.

Johanna

[LeaP]

"If you are TS you may be able to delay the inevitable but you WILL regret that decision when you finally do transition." (Aprilrain)

And for those of us who haven't always known we were in the wrong body, how will that knowledge come? When will it come? That's at the core of this and several other threads...and perhaps that's another thread in and of itself (which I know has been done before at other times), but if that revelation were easy to come by, if it came in the form of unquestioned certainty, all the other decisions about what to do about it would be much less traumatic.


No-one ever forced a revelation and the good news is that no-one is forced into decisions before the realization comes. The problem here is confusing two separate sets of problems and decisions. The first is resolving the conflict and coming to terms with your identity. The second is making decisions about transition (including hormones) once the realization and acceptance has been gained. Don't try to jump to the transition considerations before even figuring out whether you'll ever need to go there.

Lea

[LaurenS.]

Johanna,

I've been on hormones for 3 years and feel female all the time. This has brought relief from the desire/need to dress all the time. So dressing isn't the issue.
It all comes down to courage. I live in a very small town and I lack the courage necessary to change the life of my family and I guess mine as well.

Thanks for your advice.
Lauren

[elizabethamy]

No-one ever forced a revelation and the good news is that no-one is forced into decisions before the realization comes. The problem here is confusing two separate sets of problems and decisions. The first is resolving the conflict and coming to terms with your identity. The second is making decisions about transition (including hormones) once the realization and acceptance has been gained. Don't try to jump to the transition considerations before even figuring out whether you'll ever need to go there.

Lea

Yes, they are two separate issues, but aren't they causally linked? And of course I haven't gotten to the point of decision/revelation about what and who I am, but are you saying that even when I finally get there, the decision of what to do about it will be just as painful and hard? Perhaps I am lucky to be able to only worry about one big thing at a time.

elizabethamy

[LeaP]

Yes, they are two separate issues, but aren't they causally linked? And of course I haven't gotten to the point of decision/revelation about what and who I am, but are you saying that even when I finally get there, the decision of what to do about it will be just as painful and hard? Perhaps I am lucky to be able to only worry about one big thing at a time.

elizabethamy

They are linked. I just don't understand the investment in anxiety in advance. There's enough to focus on with what is at hand. I'm not discussing transition topics with my therapist. I'm focused on inter-personal connections, being present with my feelings, an examination of my life focusing on comparisons and validation vs other trans people, self image, depression and defensive reactions, and a lot more. Why on earth would I be talking about hormones now?

What I've observed with most trans women is that the hormones decision is a foregone conclusion by the time it has arrived.

Lea

[Aprilrain]

What I've observed with most trans women is that the hormones decision is a foregone conclusion by the time it has arrived.

Lea

Yup! hormones were a forgone conclusion for me before i even had a therapist. I did get a therapist and waited the requisite 3 months for her letter. I couldn't wait the 6 months to see the Endo though!

[Amber99]

I've never heard a TS say, "I wish I'd waited a few more years"

Exactly. If you are going to do it, do it NOW.

[sandra-leigh]

Anyone whose identity issues don't tip into the transsexual category should not be toying with hormones (and I don't mean herbals). A male-identified person taking cross-sex hormones is almost certainly self-medicating and needs to be unconfused by someone.

You have mixed together two distinct concepts by placing them adjacent to each other.

A MTF "whose identity issues don't tip into the transsexual category" is not necessarily a "male-identified person", and even if they are, they are, it is not fair to assume they are "self-medicating".

In particular, what is missing here is "transgender". I, for one, do not identify as transgender, but by the time I was ready to think about hormones seriously, my therapist quite ready to give me The Letter: she had been waiting patiently for me to ask for for one, as it had to be my initiative. I believe I had already been in gender therapy for more than 20 months by that point. To provide context: my gender therapist is the only person in my province authorized to make SRS recommendations, so she was not "just going along": she had assessed my gender dysphoria and felt that HRT would be suitable for me.

The trans health clinic had no qualms about accepting me for HRT, even as transgender but not identifying as transsexual. Never once did they suggest that I was "confused" or suggest that my standards of proof needed to be higher as. By then I'd already been living as publicly transgender for 4 years.


What I've observed with most trans women is that the hormones decision is a foregone conclusion by the time it has arrived.

Your observation is plausible for the majority of trans women. I do not know if it is accurate, but it seems plausible.

It happened that it was not a "foregone conclusion" for me (speaking only for myself).

Hormones had for me been an "implausible possibility" for years. It is hard to be trans and internet connected and not be aware that hormones are out there and are suitable for some people. A gender therapist is going to ask about your opinion on hormones just to find out where you are at, to observe your reaction. I knew vaguely about hormones, but for years I did not feel they were anything close to what I where I should be heading -- though when the topic of hormones arose, I would say to my therapist that, "But still, I have this nagging feeling that some day I'm going to give in and try them." "Some day" for me was 15, 20, 25 years, what-ever.

When I decided to seriously investigate HRT after a period of spontaneous breast growth, I was sick of making decisions based upon internet scare stories and wanted concrete information about what HRT would mean for my body (my biochemistry). The only decision involved at the time was to do get a medical assessment.

Well, everything about the medical and psych assessment went much much faster than expected for me, and where I had expected a year or 18 months of emotional processing of "Do I even want to?" and "Am I prepared to accept the consequences", it turned out that after 4 months I had the side-effect information and medical clearance and psych clearance. I wasn't ready, I didn't have my internal answers then, I was just asking about it, and the quick response was essentially "Yup, no problem, when did you want to start?" And then I was all, "AGGGH, NOW WHAT?" :o

I had some serious internal struggles after that. It could perhaps have gone either way. OK, maybe I'm kidding myself that I could have made any other decision in the long run, but the decision did not come easily to me.

[LeaP]

You have mixed together two distinct concepts by placing them adjacent to each other.

A MTF "whose identity issues don't tip into the transsexual category" is not necessarily a "male-identified person", and even if they are, they are, it is not fair to assume they are "self-medicating".

In particular, what is missing here is "transgender".

Actually, I haven't mixed them. They are separate statements and you have read something that is not there. Yours is a plausible reading but not logically necessary by any stretch.

The language in my second statement was specific to male-identified people. It is one reason why I did NOT use language such one must be female-identified for hormones (which I do not believe). I stand by the statement that someone who is male-identified has no business screwing around with cross-sex hormones. In the same vein, a therapist that would open up HRT to such an individual is pretty far off the beaten SOC path. I.e., the guy is probably self-medicating.

I also stand by the statement on the transsexual spectrum (anyone who tips over in the transsexual category) and, of course, that may well include people that identify as TG. Most psychologists accept that there is a range of TS identity, ala the Benjamin scale.

Hopefully this is clearer.

Lea

[Kaitlyn Michele]

If you look at it from the other side

From a gender perspective..(ie regardless of genitals and genes).

There are men, there are women, there are everything in between.... we do live in this binary gender world that marginalizes anyone that does not fit into it..

anyway..if you look at it that way, i favor the idea that transsexuals are simply women...not transgendered from the perspective of living a tg life or even calling ourselves tg once we live in the female role full time..

there is no reason that a person that considers themselves tg can't live in the female role in life, or take hormones or enjoy the benefits of cosmetic surgery... but they aren't women.. and this idea causes so much friction

so when you say "tips into the transsexual category", that to me means someone that is transgendered but wants to live a female life...perhaps with a penis, perhaps with HRT, perhaps gender queer, whatever they want...it can be anything in between...and i don't think it should be a problem to say that the tg person in "not male" and "not female" at the same time...and everyone that is NOT tg is either male or female..

there is no implication of who is better or worse, there is the implication that HRT could easily have a different impact on your quality of life...which is what this thread is about..

if you can boil down anna's and lea's and charla's dilemna into one idea ...it's this...Will starting HRT improve your quality of life? How that question is answered , how a person gets to that answer is highly personal, and is incredibly high stakes..

[LeaP]

I agree, Kaitlyn and should correct my language regarding "transsexual identity." One may accurately describe themself as a transsexual, but there is no transsexual identity per se, as in "my inner sense of self is transsexual." So a better statement is "Anyone whose gender identity tips into the range of transsexuality".

Your care with this is an important point. There has been quite a bit of commentary on post-transition trans women (a term I DO find useful) rejecting an ongoing association with the transsexual label. That's not because their actual transsexuality is at issue, it's because it's so often used incorrectly to denote identity, as I did.

Lea

[Sissy Michelle]

In the thread a question was asked about a gentle way to "try hormones" to see how they make you feel etc.
There " kinda is", for a limited amount of time, but one must remember that everyone is different and even this will have different effects on different people, and that ALL hormones have the potential of damaging your body. It is incredibly important to take hormones under a doctors supervison and not to give in to self medicating via the purchase of pills on the internet.
When I first started my treament I was put on stick on patches ( like the kind you have to stop smoking ). This method releases controlled gentle amounts of hormones into the body and is much kinder to the liver and kidneys etc.
I had to place the stickers on my chest. I think I took a testosterone blocker at the same time too, but I cant really remember if Im honest :)
The cut off time for this system is approx 4 months, anything more and your fertility WILL be affected.
If you stop the treatment within this time any breast growth will again subside and if you are lucky your erections and desire will return ( if they were diminished due to the medication ).
At the very least you will have had the opporunity to see how you feel while taking hormones.
I remember I was most upset that my long nails broke much easier once I had started taking hormones :)

Hope this helps in some way.

[Bree-asaurus]

I remember I was most upset that my long nails broke much easier once I had started taking hormones :)

So did you stop taking the hormones? Did you realize they weren't the right path for you or something? Curious :)

I've found that prenatal vitamines have restored the strength of my nails. YAY!

[Anna Lorree]

So did you stop taking the hormones? Did you realize they weren't the right path for you or something? Curious :)

I've found that prenatal vitamines have restored the strength of my nails. YAY!

I have been trying Biotin.

Anna