Great Expectations?

[Sharon]

I'm wondering about the standards we set for ourselves as far as our "passability" goes. What I mean is, are we realistic in our goals?

When I go out I invariably look at women and consciously compare my appearance with theirs: their face, their figure, and their whole aura (poise, style, facial expression, etc.). What I am beginning to realize, more and more, is that I look no less "feminine" than a good percentage of actual GG's, and I am, by far, no beauty.

What I am is an average looking person, not one to turn heads with Angelina Jolie beauty, but neither am I so horrible looking that I get pulled off the street by the beauty police and involuntarily spayed and neutered, a realization that is both liberating and, frankly, surprising to someone who has a natural tendency to be self-depreciating.

What I want to know is -- are you realistic about how well you can look if you really try? And are you realistic about how well you look in comparison with the average woman? Or are you only satisfied if you can look like a super-model?

[Faye Emmette]

I realise I'll never look like my idols but also, from when I first started stepping out, my fears of being stared at or harassed soon went. This I put down to the fact that I dress OK and people don't really stare anyway. Just another face in the crowd going about there business and if someone did notice I was built a little different, they would soon be on their way and thinking about other things.
Thanks for bringing the topic up Sharon.
XX
F.

[TGMarla]

Frankly, Sharon, you're probably right. I've really never gone out anywhere, most probably due to fear. There is also the little matter of my wife and the people I live with. But that aside, when we are "read" by the public, who is doing the reading? Women? They're always critical of other women. A "read" may be nothing more than another woman looking critically at you. A man? Hey, if you're no beauty, they're probably looking at you thinking, "Man, no way I'd do her...." Sorry. Men can be pigs.

I'm no movie star either. I simply do the best I can with what I have. No matter how long I stare at myself, I simply do not turn into Charlize Theron. It'll have to do.

[Billijo49504]

At 58 yrs old, my expectations are that my feet hit the floor each morning. Actually, I do try my best, with clothes, that will fit in. I also do the best I can with makeup, but the wrinkles and crows feet sometime need spackle. If I don't do a good job, my wife will tell me. I ask her to be honest.And sometimes she is too honest. I guess that says it all, I try to fit in, not stick out...BJ

[Ellaine]

Sharon :) Well I don't want to be Mrs Average, I want to be Cathryn Zeta Jones, or a young Ann Margaret, or even ex uk newsreader Selina:D Scott .
In my dreams! But untill I actual have that dream, I'll aspire to Mrs Average :(

I'm sure most women want to feel totally beautiful and to watch the opposite sex, fall doe eyed under her spell. :rolleyes:

But being built wider at the top than bottom, and 6ft tall, will get you gawps whatever gender you are ;)

Some of us are never satisfied. Does my bum look real in this?

Ellaine

[mand]

Hello Sharon :) I'm kinda a bit off the posting thing at the moment but I'll have a go ;)

Hmmm "passable", well I've read many posts in which the author claims to be very "passable". I have met quite a few TG's, TS's, CD's and come to the conclusion that "passibility" is basiclly an "urban myth" :rolleyes:.
There are very very few TG's who even come close to being "passable". The best that seems to be hoped for is to blend in without being to noticeable.

Do I pass, can I fool the world into believing I was born a genetic female ? ................. never in a million years. If I am able to go about my buissness without getting any hassel or ridicule then I am very happy..................that's about the best I can hope for.

I have to say though Sharon, there is a difference between being passable and being attractive, How many GG's have you seen that you can describe as unattractive and yet they are obviously GG's. On the other hand I have met some TG's who were without doubt male in their physical gender but they did have a certain attractive style and looks.

Maybe it's just me Sharon but I always have a little chuckle at the word "passable", I prefer to see it has "blending in" getting by without being noticed...........well not to much at least .


love mand xxx:)

[andreaboots]

I really don't know what to expect of me as a CD. I'm 50 now, and my CD'ing for some reason has become very important to me. My current aspiration(s) as far as CD'ing goes is that I would just like to pass as a female. I'm definitely no beauty queen and I don't think many of us are, but that is entirely OK! One of my idols, if we are to have them is Betty Page. I feel that she IS a beauty Goddess that didn't really live her full potential. Now I'm ramblin' again.:sb: I just would like to pass and be with my new CD girlfriends a few times both in and out!:gh: That's all!! Love all! XXX;)

[mand]

What I want to know is -- are you realistic about how well you can look if you really try? And are you realistic about how well you look in comparison with the average woman? Or are you only satisfied if you can look like a super-model?


Hello again Sharon :) in answer to the above I am very very doubtfull about my looks, if I could just look like "the girl next door" I would be very very very happy :)

love mand xxx:)

[JoAnnDallas]

I am in my late 50's, so wearing a mini or looking like Wonder Woman is out. I settle for not being noticed and being left alone, so I can enjoy my outing, shopping, or whatever I am doing dressed en fem.

[Maude]

i have a mirror
and the best i can do is:
looking like a guy dressed up in girl's clothes ?

however, i enjoy it and have fun !

[TGMarla]

Well, Mand, I know it's just an avatar and all, but from what I can see, I think you look very attractive. Passable? Well, if avatars here were the litmus test for passing, we'd all be out walking around with no worries...including you!

[mand]

Hello Marla :) Hmmmm avatars are one thing but I did try to be honest with this .................................. http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7067


Ouch honesty can be so painfull ;)


love mand xxx:)

[Faye Emmette]

Yes Maud, you look fine and easily passable. For Mand, very attractive and no needs for doubts there either I'd say.
For me to leave the house, and scared the neighbours would see, I guess they just thought I was one of my girlfriends as they never said anything and it's been ten years now !! I only go out at night though.

[Jonien]

Having been watching a late night series on telly about ts's most of witch you would not normally say thy pass Even after facial surgery but having also watched with interest on make up and surprisingly there are a lot of GG's with male features but still look female,,, I feel like a lot of us would like to see our self as a young teenager and as I believe most of us have left that behind by a few years..

What I would say that to my mind that after facial surgery it takes a lot of other expression voice and mannerisms your femininity comes from the Aurora you radiate features are only a small part

like some days I can look in the mirror and with out makeup I see a girl then another time with all my skill with the cosmetics I cannot look the slightest femme


I have seen transsexual girls and thought that the cost of surgery should be spent on the face first but then surprisingly after SRS the same person will look 100% more female. now SRS to the outside world would not be seen so why did she look so diferent....


whoops I'm rambling again

[Nikki Dee]

I do the best I can with what I've got.!!!...I find that people just seem to take so little notice these days...and not every RG is a super model.!!!
love Nikki. x

[Nikki Dee]

Mand....I always find you don't I..??...Have you fallen out with me.??
Nikki...xx

[Richelle]

I am happy to look like an average 50+ women out shopping for new clothes :)

Richelle

[vicky V]

I am with Maude - - no way I can pass and I have never and will never try, but I certainly have fun at home with my little hobby, and of course every day in regards to what I wear under DRAB - always panties and some sort of female hosiery.

love,

vicky v

[mand]

Mand....I always find you don't I..??...Have you fallen out with me.??
Nikki...xx


Ay up mi duck ;)

Hmmm Have I fallen out with you ?...................of course not love:)
I've got you're PM and I'll write soon, I've just popped on for a few min's now.................kinda in the middle of thing's love.

Best stop now I'm sorta taking the thread of subject :o

Lovely to hear from you Nikki .................love mand xxx

[Stephanie Brooks]

I go for presenting as a woman. That's it. I try to do the best with what I've got.

As a guy I'm on the light side of average for weight given my height. My wife is jealous that I have a flat tummy. While time has been good to me wrt my physical shape, you'd never mistake this body for that of a 20 year old guy. I am however shaped as a guy, no mistake there.

That said, as a girl I'm on the heavy side of average for weight given my height. Also, I have a heavy beard and mustache, large hands, long arms, broad shoulders, short legs, a modestly (or immodestly!) hairy chest, insufficient natural cleavage, waist rolls, big feet, and a deep voice. I also have a face that can be feminized (maybe that's a conceit, but I think it's true), decent legs, and feminine mannerisms. I cannot wear low cut, midriff items. I can wear dresses and skirts and blouses. I can wear skirts and dresses that are modestly slit; something mid-calf length can be split to my knees and - I think - look good on me. I can't dress as a 20 year old female fashion model, nor do I try. I dress to compliment my figure, much as it is. I want simply to pass.

Passing for me is a safety issue. I go out in public, and I want to move essentially unnoticed. I want to appear vital without being outlandish, fashionable witout being overtly sexy. That I probably appear a bit frumpy is fine with me. I can mostly pass as a female. When I talk, all hopes of passing vanish. That's mostly okay. I think I appear as a female. That's good enough.

[Tracy Lynn]

Other than dropping a few pounds I like the way I look. That is what I think is important. I wish I had the body to try some slimmer outfits but oh well....

[Wendy me]

look at most gg's ( no offence to any gg's here...your all georgus) by our stands as cds would not pass... ok you go out and look watch gg's they are all diffrent from drop head heart stopping beautys ( like our gg's here) to pretty girls and plane looking and some that won't pass as gg's ....ok what am i saying here ??? most cd's get way off track when dressing to "pass" see we all have our little flaws as do gg's ...and what do thay ?? some try to hide it and some could care less ....if you got something that is less than perfit and waite to be that 10 ... you may never get out ...if i get out and no one realy noticed me the way cool in my book thats a good time out ..better than read in a negitive way....a sticker that i saw says it all .... "are you willing to lower your standards to have a lot of fun???"..............

[Sarahgurl371]

We all put soooo much emphasis on passing. It has occurred to me that I never will. I too constanly look at GGs to (well cuz I like to look at em) study how I might better "fit in" if I ventured out. It occured to me that I never will poses the traits that I see in real women, that is, soft skin, small stature, slender neck, and shoulders. I am just not built that way. If I could change it I would. When I was a kid, I was upset that I didn't have armpit hair or couldn't grow a mustache when my buddies could, or that I wasn't a bigger man. Now I curse the same things, and my big hands, and get kinda evious of smaller men, thinking, if I was built like him, I could pass easier. Isn't that wierd?

Do any of you some times get discouraged because you feel that you never can be or look like, what you want to be, that is a GG? Or am I a little further down the TG spectrum? Sometimes this stuff is soooo confusing. I guess I could be happy with my looks if I could just go out and not be noticed. But have you met many GGs who are happy with thier looks?

[KatieZ]

I know that I will never pass and I don't have those expectations. I spend as much time as needed applying make up and the rest of it is attitude and presentaion. I dress my age according to where I am going and the time of day. I pay attention to my walk and other mannerisms. I still get read a lot but I don't let it bother me. For the most part I am just another woman and the ones that do read and judge me will just have to deal with it within themselves.


Hugs

[Shannon]

I use to think that "Passing" or "Not Passing" were my only 2 choices. As Wendy mentions, I started paying a lot of attention to women and men. There are a lot of attractive looking people out there -- and some not so attractive people.

Recently, I've been thinking more in terms of "Blending", or at least not creating a stir amongst my fellow earthlings. Then I started going out en femme -- just little small steps to the gas station and ATM and strolling around a bit.

Now, I think what best describes by expectation is to be "Comfortable and Confident". Yeah, because that makes the whole thing about me -- am I feeling comfortable and confident. It is something I have a bit more control over, than are others noticing me, am I "Passing" or "Blending" for them?

I feel that if I'm concerned about Passing or Blending, I'm defining my experience in terms of how others react, or don't react. It's like giving others control over my experience. Yes, other's may say something that could undermine my level of comfort and confidence, if I let what they say get to me. But what others think and feel about me is more about them and their expectations than it is about me.

[Jacqui]

I have never been out, so you could take this with a grain of salt:

I would say that the more attractive you try to make yourself, the more looks you'll get from men and women and probably the harder it will be to pass or "blend." Even if your look is close to perfect, you will have had to master all aspects of female comportment... the way you walk, the way you sit, the way you eat, the way your body moves, etc.

How often do we stare at beautiful women for as long as we can without getting "caught" whilst giving an average girl only the once over? The beautiful CD, therefore has a much longer timeframe to be read by either sex.

Most GG's are not models, they're not movie stars, they're average. I think that in order to pass, it is necessary to have that "average" look and have a more than modest degree of feminine movement, and of course, voice.

I'm talking about CD's in general, not TS's who've had FFS, SRS, or those Miss Transgendered of the World candidates in Thailand!

Well, that's just my opinion.

[Rachel Morley]

Pass or not pass?....it's the holy grail of crossdressing....isn't it? For me, it's certainly way too much of a hot potato to really comment on.

Having said that, I will say this about how I feel about myself. I do try not to stand out when I'm in public. I've been told that my dressing style is a sometimes a bit too prim and proper :) My expectations of myself are always more than I can achieve. It always seems like a battle to get to a place where I look in the mirror and think to myself...yeah I look good :(

Do I pass?...well if passing means being mistaken for a woman...then my personal opinion is that I only pass from a distance or if people don't get too close. The moment people see me face to face then I don't know what they are thinking. It's true I have a small body and small features but I still think people know. To date though, I have been lucky because I always get treated a a woman....until I speak :o

[Kaitlyn Michele]

passing? its just a word....i think we all have different hopes and expectations..i have very high hopes, low expectations...everybody compliments the pics but i know the truth of it for me

for me, i like to go out and walk around in places where women might be around and at over 6' i'm quite certain i dont pass.

BUT!!!!!!!!
on the other hand, i take pride in my "look" and my clothes and try to look my best and blend in and if nobody bothers me i can pretend that i "passed" or that at least when people took notice of me they were ok with it...

for those of us that get fully dressed and try to blend in public i would venture this opinion.. no matter how you look, if you make an effort and (this is key) dont show off any body hair.(that includes arms/chest/beard cover), then people who read you probably think you are a trannsexual..i'm totally guessing here but we all care about the difference...i'm a crossdresser, i fantasize about being totally female, but i'm a man. this is hugely different from our ts sisters but at the same time i dont think the general public out there gives a hoot....obviously if the wig is messed or your arm hair is poking out...people might notice up close, but i really think that since i go "ALL-IN" i am rarely going to get bothered even with my size and total lack of feminine looks facially..if i get read as TS so to speak that works for me...in fact, i would love it if someday i get approached by somebody asking if i used to be a guy!!!! (LOL)

just my opinion

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

I think too many of us are paralyzed the pursuit of perfection. We've bought into the beauty myth just as much as GGs have.

But as Mand said, it's unlikely that the vast majority of us (including myself) are going to be mistaken for a GG 100% of the time. I'm a big chick. No two ways about it. A 5'10", 220, broad shoulders and a barrel chest, I'm well outside the statistic norm for females. That said, I've seen GGs bigger than I am, both in height and breadth. And as Sharon said, not all of them look like . Just see these examples. (http://www.ladylike.org.uk/pages/convincing.html)

Which is one reason I can move through a crowd without seeming to attract a lot of attention -- although I've got no illusions that in close-up interactions I'm going to be mistaken for a GG.

So it's really about presentable and blending in. As Shannon put it, be comfortable and confident in your own skin and people will generally treat you like the lady you feel yourself to be. Those of you who've read about my past outings know that I've been treated well even though I'm sure people knew they were dealing with a guy in a dress.

I realize that being a guy in a dress doesn't fulfill the fantasy we have, but if you can accept that's what you are, being read is no longer a crushing blow. It happens, you move on. So the question is holding onto the dream of being mistaken for a GG worth remaining all dressed with no place to go (if the need to pass keeps you in the house)?

That said, a GG friend has been pushing me to not only be "passable" but pretty. I'm not going to be mistaken for Angelina Jolie, but I think I've upped the ante. Frankly, it's a little scary, because my friend (who's beautiful) warned me that being pretty will attract attention. And as a CD that's a two-edged sword -- am I being looked because someone finds me attractive or because I'm being read (or both)? Am I aiming to look like a super-model? Yes. Do I [i]need to look like a super-model to be comfortable going out. No.

[Sweet Susan]

I'm around women all day. Lots of them. I have to say that they are very much different looking than we are. I think it takes a pretty special cd to fool most people. I don't believe I have what it takes.

[Sharon]

I would say that the more attractive you try to make yourself, the more looks you'll get from men and women and probably the harder it will be to pass or "blend." Even if your look is close to perfect, you will have had to master all aspects of female comportment... the way you walk, the way you sit, the way you eat, the way your body moves, etc.

How often do we stare at beautiful women for as long as we can without getting "caught" whilst giving an average girl only the once over? The beautiful CD, therefore has a much longer timeframe to be read by either sex.

Most GG's are not models, they're not movie stars, they're average. I think that in order to pass, it is necessary to have that "average" look and have a more than modest degree of feminine movement, and of course, voice.

Exactly! -- although I think "attractive" is the wrong word. I would always want to be attractive, but I refrain from attempting to look glamorous (in public).

I would love nothing more than to be able to dress like Rita Hayworth or Audrey Hepburn did in their movies, but if I were to attempt to do so in public, I would attract much unwanted attention, just as a GG would. But whereas a woman would possibly be able to survive close scrutiny, I most assuredly would not.
It's all about blending in and being accepted for me. I want people to see me as just another faceless girl on the street.

[Debbie Kong]

I'm very realistic. I want people to know that I'm a TV. I just want to be an attractive one. There are many people who like us that way. I only go out to T friendly places so people who see me should know what I'm all about. TGurls are special. Why pretend to be other?

Debbie

[Ashley in Virginia]

What I want to know is -- are you realistic about how well you can look if you really try? And are you realistic about how well you look in comparison with the average woman? Or are you only satisfied if you can look like a super-model?

I have put alot of thought into this over the last few days. My expectations are probably not realistic. But I don't know what realistic is. I am having a tough time accepting the image in the mirror as all I can be. Is it realistic to want more? How much further can I take it?

I may be passable at 20 yards, but at 20 feet? I don't think so. And thats where I want to get to. So I guess I will never be satisfied with this. lol.

[Jodi]

Ashley, The ability to go out and blend in as a cd is CONFIDENCE. Do the best you can on your appearance. Remember that behavior, deportment, posture and mannerisms are actually more important than appearance in blending in. Also, remember to SMILE. GG's smile all of the time. They smile at strangers, friends, clerks, etc. When someone looks at you, look them back and smile.

The ability to blend in and be accepted is 90% confidence in who we are.

Jodi

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

The ability to blend in and be accepted is 90% confidence in who we are.

Exactly.

As I said earlier, if you expect people to mistake you for a GG, you're probably going to be disappointed. If you expect people to treat you like anyone else -- that's totally doable.

[Kim E]

I would love to pass, but I know that's not reality. So, I don't worry about it. I've always cared more about blending in and not standing out. Just a TG in a crowd, going about her business like everyone else. Never had any kind of serious or embarrassing problems, maybe confidence is a big part of it. Also only being 5"8" helps a lot, some of my GG friends are taller than I am. An advantage I have is that I live as a female probably 80 percent of the time.

A bad place to go, if you don't want to be read is the mall or where ever teenage girls hang out. Some CD/TG friends have told me, from their experience, that teenage girls can spot us in a heartbeat and can be quite vocal about it with their peers.

Hugs ~ Kim

[Rachel Ann]

What I want to know is -- are you realistic about how well you can look if you really try? :)
Well, Mand, you know what a crush I have always had on you!

I never expect to pass, especially at my age. But I am content with what I have.

Love

Rachel xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[mand]

Awwww Rachel a crush on me ................thankyou love :kissing:


I was just wondering if my earlier post sounded a bit too harsh:o
I do believe though that most TG's cannot "pass" totally, there is always some give away that prevents this. Usually it is the overall size, shape and build that is a real give away. Then there are thing's like facial features, adams apple, hands, feet, oh and the voice.
However like I said before there is a difference between passability and attractivness. You only have to look on the picture threads on this forum to see many attractive girls.

I was just thinking about an ex neighbour of ours. She was not a woman that could be described as attractive.
I don't know if I should say the next bit :o ..................well anyway we used to call her Mrs Stalin, because basiclly she looked like Joseph Stalin in a dress................and yes she did have a lot of facial hair just under her nose :eek:
The thing is though you knew that she was a genitic female...................I'm not sure how but you just knew................she was "passable", well kind off.

I really truely wish I could pass, it would make life a hell of a lot easier but if I can just manage to sometimes become not noticable then I'll be happy with that.

love mand xxx:)

[Toni]

I look in the mirror and think to myself "You've done the best you can with that mush" and if I can walk down the street past a gang of teenagers and they don't start shouting "Tranny,tranny,tranny" then I think I've won.

[Rachel Ann]

Awwww Rachel a crush on me …
Girl-girl crushes are the best ‘cause you are at far less risk for getting your heart broken. :)



I do believe though that most TG's cannot "pass" totally, there is always some give away that prevents this.
A few can do quite well, especially those who started transitioning in their teens. And all of us, GGs included, learn how to de-emphasize our bad traits and play up our good ones. I would kill for a face like yours! And I'm still learning, heaven knows.



However like I said before there is a difference between passability and attractiveness. … manage to sometimes become not noticeable
Yes, we are all entitled to be girls, and only God makes some naturally beautiful. But the magic of makeup, hair products and foundation garments, plus a lot of work, gives most of us the chance to be quite presentable!

I am a firm believer in “passing enough” – i.e., being able to go about without attracting derision. Of course, that’s easy for me to say since I live in a very T-friendly area. I don’t know where you live – are you in a position to go for outings in places like London from time to time?

But I truly believe that most people are so self-absorbed that they just don’t notice all that much about others. Of course, I still practice common sense when it comes to safety. I never put myself in a position without an escape route should I encounter a pack of boys, don’t go out alone after dark, and so forth.

Otherwise, it’s living in the closet – and I have wasted FAR too much of my life doing that.



... if I can walk down the street past a gang of teenagers and they don't start shouting "Tranny,tranny,tranny" then I think I've won.
Sticks and stones! I'm happy if they don't drag me in to an alley and beat me, or worse.

Hugs and kisses

Rachel Ann

p.s. Mand, I really think you're a bit beyond "aspiring" by now. :)

[mand]

Hello again Rachel :) I know I'm kinda going off topic a little here but threads are supposed to get people talking aren't they ;)
Can I just tell you what my biggest problem is about going anywhere were there are people. I cannot forget I'm different in my way, no matter if no one is paying me a blind bit of notice, I keep reminding myself that I am TG.
Well this causes me no end of anxiety but on the rare occasion when my mind is on something I can totally forget that difference exsists and those moments are pure heaven for me.
It may happen when I'm doing the weekly shop and I am trying not to forget anything...............anytime when I'm having to concentrate on something else.
I'll tell you my worst times, when I have to queue for something, a supermarket checkout or in the bank, then I really feel anxious :(


But what you say ................"Otherwise, it’s living in the closet – and I have wasted FAR too much of my life doing that"..................that my way of thinking as well Rachel :)

love mand xxx:)