US Draft

[rebekkadg]

The other day we were disucussing reasons crossdressing would have been culturally frowned upon other than simply people not doing the normal thing and one of the reasons discussed was that it could make it difficult for countries to draft men properly if the men disguised themselves as women to hide out from the draft. The question then turned to what is the status of a person in the United States that has transitioned from one gender to the other? Is a female who was born male still subject to the draft? Is a male who was born female required to be registered for the draft? We really didn't know.

Honestly, I think the draft laws are rather antiquated and in the remote case that a draft is nessassary it should call upon both sexes equally (with exceptions for care of children, infirmaties, age, ect). But since it is gender specific at the moment not really sure how it applies to people who have transitioned from one gender to the other. Was wondering if anyone could fill me in on this because I am honestly curious to how it is handled.

[Julia_in_Pa]

If there is medical documentation that the person in question is transsexual or intersexed and has or is in the process of transitioning the U.S. military still to this date will not allow that person to be drafted due to " mental illness" . It would be deviation.

I am however unfamiliar with rules concerning cross dressing. I would assume since the military follows ICD-10 protocol set forth by the World Health Organization it would find this definition of both cross dressing or Gender Identity Disorder as proof of mental illness.

And I Quote;

"" Transvestic Fetishism: Heterosexual male having intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving cross dressing.
OR
Gender Identity Disorder: Strong cross-gender identification; wanting to be or claiming to be the opposite sex. ""

This should answer your question.


Julia

[Stephenie S]

Well right now, it's not handled at all as we have an all volunteer army.

How the United States draft works, for all you youngun's, is that every male is required to register for the draft 18 year of age. You can't "hide out" by dressing as a woman. You HAVE to register at 18. Those who don't register are subject to severe penalty

I do not know what the details would be for a transitioned MtF, but I imagine the draft would not want you unless they started to draft women (duh). I would also imagine that a FtM who transitioned prior to their 18th birthday would be subject to the draft also.

I agree that the draft, if it were needed, should apply to both sexes. How do you feel? Should your wife or girlfriend be drafted?

Stephie

[Julia_in_Pa]

@ Stephanie,

If equal opportunity is practiced wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, etc should have every opportunity to be shot, killed or otherwise abused not only buy the enemy but also by the US government.


Julia

[Sandra1746]

For all practical purposes the draft is dead. Yes there is 'registration' but that's sending in a postcard. There's none of the old (1960's) routine of visiting your draft board to register. Any calls for a resumption of the draft are met with near-derision; it's a politically toxic subject.

Julia probably has the perspective on the CD/TS subject should a draft ever be instituted but this likely (hopefully) will remain a completely acedemic question.

Just my $0.02; I registered for the draft in 1964.

Sandra1746

[sometimes_miss]

Trying to avoid the draft by dressing/acting as a female is nothing new. You get drafted anyway. And once in the service, you might get the crap kicked out of you by your fellow soldiers, or maybe more simply put through more intense workouts in basic to 'fix' you.
The reason for the 'male only' draft is simple; a society can repopulate itself if necessary by having the toughest males that survive combat impregnating multiple females. But it won't work the other way around, say, if there are lots of males and very few females. Sure, today we don't really have that problem; but societal behavior is very, very slow to change.

[Karren H]

I was 142 and they only took to 45 that year. It was way easier to run to Canada than do the Corporal Klinger route. Lol. Not that I would have done either.... I was prepared to go....

[kimdl93]

Personally, I think that every adult, regardless of gender, sexual preference, etc. should have an obligation to serve for at least 2 years.

[Michelle.M]

If there is medical documentation that the person in question is transsexual or intersexed and has or is in the process of transitioning the U.S. military still to this date will not allow that person to be drafted due to " mental illness" . It would be deviation.

I am however unfamiliar with rules concerning cross dressing.

Same thing, unfortunately. For the Army it's AR 40-501, covers transgender and cross dressing in the same section.

Although the Army's official position follows this reg that does not necessarily mean that Army psychologists and psychiatrists do. However, those are the rules they must work under, at least for now.

This will eventually change, but look how long it took for the repeal of DADT. But eventually . . .

[Cheryl T]

There currently is no draft for the military. It is a volunteer army (navy, air force, marines, coast guard, merchant marine), so this is a moot point.

[RADER]

I was 142 and they only took to 45 that year. It was way easier to run to Canada than do the Corporal Klinger route. Lol. Not that I would have done either.... I was prepared to go....

I agree; I got my notice and then enlisted in the Navy Sea-Bees. I figured if I had to serve, I
might as well pick the spot I would serve in. I am proud of the fact that I served my country;
And was Very glad to come home.
Rader

[Vanessa Winters]

The way the law is set up that if a man transitions to a women she would still have to register with the draft and therefore could get drafted if the draft was ever reinstated.

[Jamie2]

Personally, I think that every adult, regardless of gender, sexual preference, etc. should have an obligation to serve for at least 2 years.

I will have to agree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got my draft notice after I joined, had to argue with the draft board that they couldn't draft somebody that was already serving !!!
Best / worst times 12 years spent in working for Uncle Sam.

[Kate Simmons]

They were not able to draft me as I beat them to the punch and enlisted. The thing is, however, if I didn't believe in the notion of what the war or conflict was all about, I would not go in, gender notwithstanding, and would rather accept the consequences. Fighting for something you don't believe in is not logical.:straightface:

[BillieJoEllen]

Hmmmmm..... if I knew then what I learned afterward I'd be a Canadian citizen today. The wars we have become embroiled in over the last few decades are wars we really have no desire to win. They are a total waste of materials and men.

As for drafting both men and women I oppose drafting women. Having served with women in Viet Nam even the female women who were leaders looked to us lowly privates and spec 4s for protection during times of enemy assault. I believe that women are a liability in war zones unless they are stationed way back behind the front lines.

I greatly admire and respect women (heck I even want to be one). I don't want to offend anyone, I'm talking from my experience and from what I saw.

[Miranda-E]

there won't be a US draft again. The government learned that the bulk of conscripts have conscience, the bulk of volunteers don't.

[KellyJameson]

I would think that men who crossdress would be less likely to want to kill other human beings.

[Salene]

I live in a state where a TG has no legal protection from discrimination. So I ask why should I protect a country that will not protect me?

[RachelOKC]

there won't be a US draft again. The government learned that the bulk of conscripts have conscience, the bulk of volunteers don't.

I've never served in the armed forces, but that last remark comes across as rather offensive. I can't think of a single veteran that I know who could be described as being without conscience. I wonder what the veterans here (volunteer and draftee) think of that?

[drag n fly]

I was 142 and they only took to 45 that year. It was way easier to run to Canada than do the Corporal Klinger route. Lol. Not that I would have done either.... I was prepared to go.... You youngster, you...I was drafted in '65...RVN 66-67...Lucky me...smooches .
Just when did the draft end? I'm guessing 76-77...Jackie (Sergeant Jackie...hehehe)

[rebekkadg]

there won't be a US draft again. The government learned that the bulk of conscripts have conscience, the bulk of volunteers don't.

This is a really foolish remark to make. While I will agree with the fact there should never have been a draft for the Vietnam War (or even involvment for that matter) the government always has to keep the option open for a draft when there is a desperate need for troops. While there currently are no threats looming that warrent such action if there were ever foriegn invasion to the United States, foriegn invasion of close neigboring nations, or a world conflict on the scale of WW1 and WW2 having the draft is essential.

Bringing it back to the main topic, I was under the impression that Transgenderism was no longer considered an illness by the major psychological associations and had reclassified it into a seperate catagory. Which would make the transgenders psychologically fit by military standards. And I am also still curious about FtMs participation as many of them are more physically fit for military service than most of us on this forum.

[Julia_in_Pa]

I fully agree with this statement.



I live in a state where a TG has no legal protection from discrimination. So I ask why should I protect a country that will not protect me?

[MargoM]

1% of the population of the country is on Active Duty now ( that is all the Branches ) and they are going to reduce it lower in the next 5 years, relax, they aren't coming after you

[Misti]

1% of the population of the country is on Active Duty now ( that is all the Branches ) and they are going to reduce it lower in the next 5 years, relax, they aren't coming after you

And certainly not after volunteer me, again? Been there done that; besides, too old now, anyway! You girls go ahead and fight it out, again, I'm outta here... bye!

[Jeninus]

there won't be a US draft again. The government learned that the bulk of conscripts have conscience, the bulk of volunteers don't.
According to her profile, Miranda was born in 1976, give or take a year. How in the hell would she know that the bulk of conscripts had a conscience and the bulk of volunteers didn't. If she didn't live in those times, and didn't serve with an almost indistinguishable mixture of conscripts and volunteers, as I and many of us on this forum DID, she ought not be making such foolish statements.

Further, she impugns those who are serving, and daily risking death or massive injuries -- sent there by a President for whom she undoubtedly voted with great enthusiasm. What conscience did he display when he sent tens of thousands of them into harms' way in Afghanistan in what he knew beforehand was a probable lost cause, for whatever political advantage he thought he might gain at the time and further political advantage by pulling them out with the job not finished just in time for his reelection campaign.

Sorry if I got hot, but this thread should probably be closed anyway.

[Miranda-E]

What conscience did he display when he sent tens of thousands of them into harms' way in Afghanistan in what he knew beforehand was a probable lost cause, for whatever political advantage he thought he might gain at the time and further political advantage by pulling them out with the job not finished just in time for his reelection campaign.

.
thanks for making my point.

[Barbara Ella]

Drafted in "68. Sergeant Babes reporting, sir!! I will not dignify the volunteer comment made earlier, as I served with some truly wonderful volunteers, and believe the services continue to get excellent people even today. I proudly served for the time I was asked to. your country protects you even if your locals will not. I believe make and female can serve. Should they be drafted, no, that is settled law, and moot.

Babes

[carbonara]

I don't know about the states but here in Singapore we hav mandatory conscription of 2 years of active service for all males upon reaching 18 with 10 years of reservist. Even those who are transitioning are assigned clerical and support roles if they have the necessary doctors documentation and assigned a special physical status classification than other guys.

I'd assume the draft might work the same if it ever came to it

[docrobbysherry]

During Viet Nam, most of my friends signed up for the Navy, Air Force, or Marines. So they could get into a specific MOS, (your assigned duty/job while in), and avoid being drafted into the Army as a bullet catcher. I checked into that. But, found it usually required 3 or 4 years active duty and up to 6 years reserve duty! I didn't think I could take mindless macho madness for that long.

When I got drafted, they told us we could either, "Lead, or follow". Conveniently not mentioning the, "Or, get out of the way!", option. Which more or less defined my 2 years in the Army! I think I was as happy to get out as my sergeants were to see me leave! Let me say I NEVER, nor do I now, have ANYTHING BUT THE GREATEST RESPECT for anyone serving their country! No matter how they or why they got in! My quarrel has ALWAYS been with the misinformed ego maniacs that get us into these wasteful and unnecessary messes in the first place!

Johnson died a sorry, broken man because of Nam. A fate I feel he richly deserved!

[BillieJoEllen]

When they began with the draft lottery system I was 10miles south of the DMZ. Iwas 356.

Like they say, "war is hell". I don't believe any group of political people or the president of the US goes in to a war with no conscience. But once we go into a war lets WIN IT! Theres no excuse for losing any war that we enter quickly. We possess great fire power.

[Foxglove]

Let me say I NEVER, nor do I now, have ANYTHING BUT THE GREATEST RESPECT for anyone serving their country! No matter how they or why they got in! My quarrel has ALWAYS been with the misinformed ego maniacs that get us into these wasteful and unnecessary messes in the first place!

Johnson died a sorry, broken man because of Nam. A fate I feel he richly deserved!

Well said, Sherry! My feelings exactly.

(By the way, my grandfather knew LBJ personally and received a letter of congratulations from him when he retired after 47 years as a high school principal. The family told me I was supposed to be proud of that, but I was never too sure.)

Best wishes, Annabelle

[silow]

I missed the draft. And later on went in the army in my mid 20's. A lot of good men give their live for us in nam. For which I thank them and those who serve today.

[Phylis Nicole Schuyler]

I was 142 and they only took to 45 that year. It was way easier to run to Canada than do the Corporal Klinger route. Lol. Not that I would have done either.... I was prepared to go....

My number was 6 and I received a letter stating I had 30 days to enlist in the armed forces or I would be subject to wherever they wanted to put me. I joined the service and became a member of a very select group (dedicated but crazy) and had to bury my CDing till I got out after almost 7 years. Ended up doing 3 tours of Nam and other places and am just as nuts now as I was then. If they knew of my CDing, I would have been thrown out faster than s**t through a goose.


I would think that men who crossdress would be less likely to want to kill other human beings.

I did more than my fair share for Uncle Sam and now am visited by their ghosts every night. Crossdressing has nothing to do with whether you can kill or not. If you believe in the cause you're fighting for, you can do anything. Females are some of the most vicious and protective defenders. Just look at a mother protecting it babies.


I live in a state where a TG has no legal protection from discrimination. So I ask why should I protect a country that will not protect me?

Because the government does protect your rights under the Constitution. Its individuals that do not. You still have the ability to crossdress without fear of the government coming into your house and taking you away so that you are never seen again. You have the right to state your opinion and not fear retribution by that government. It is a sad state that humans don't follow the golden rule, " Do unto others as you would have done unto you." Man has a greedy tendency to turn what they conceive as weakness to puff up their ego and sense of superiority. It is nothing more than insecurity of the individual or group of individuals. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I lost a LOT of team members who gave their lives just so you can say what you want to, without fear of reprisals. I will now get off my soap box and fade into the background where I belong. HOOO_YAAAAAW!


During Viet Nam, most of my friends signed up for the Navy, Air Force, or Marines. So they could get into a specific MOS, (your assigned duty/job while in), and avoid being drafted into the Army as a bullet catcher. I checked into that. But, found it usually required 3 or 4 years active duty and up to 6 years reserve duty! I didn't think I could take mindless macho madness for that long.

When I got drafted, they told us we could either, "Lead, or follow". Conveniently not mentioning the, "Or, get out of the way!", option. Which more or less defined my 2 years in the Army! I think I was as happy to get out as my sergeants were to see me leave! Let me say I NEVER, nor do I now, have ANYTHING BUT THE GREATEST RESPECT for anyone serving their country! No matter how they or why they got in! My quarrel has ALWAYS been with the misinformed ego maniacs that get us into these wasteful and unnecessary messes in the first place!

Johnson died a sorry, broken man because of Nam. A fate I feel he richly deserved!

Amen, doc! He and Nixon (for leaving so many men left behind) were both broken because of the greed.

[Marilyn Beck]

When I saw the title of this thread ("US Draft") on a crossdressing forum, I naturally assumed the topic was that delightful feeling we experience while wearing skirts and dresses on a breezy day: "under skirt draft". :heehee: