Please stop me.

[Elizabeth Ann]

I hope some of you remember me. I am across the hall in the cross dressing section. In January, our 21 year old child announced to my wife and I that he/she was a transexual and wishes to transition to a woman. We have lots of questions and doubts, and generally worry that this is moving too fast. It is a recent development, though she now says she realizes this was repressed in her youth.

I was alarmed when earlier this month, she obtained a prescription for spironolactone from an endocrinologist on a first visit and with not other documentation at all. Thus began an on line conversation that has gone very badly. I am sick about it, and don't know what to do. I need help. Advice, complaints, suggestions, anything. I'm feeling desperate to make this better. Here is the exchange from David/Davin (who is still living as a man):

Dav:
Mom and Dad,
A***** and I have been talking and researching about options for kids in the future, and we've decided that it's a good idea for me to bank sperm. It seems IUI/IVF can be cheaper than adopting, and I think we'd like to keep that option open either way. However, I can't start hormones until after this is done, and although I've seen the endocrinologist and he's given me a prescription for a testosterone blocker, I can't afford the cost of sperm banking. I think we'll be able to cover storage costs in the future, but right now, the problem is the initial expense of sampling, testing, and storing. Depending on what clinic/company we go with, this can be anywhere around $400-600. I know it feels like I'm moving too fast, but it would mean a lot to me if you guys could trust my judgment and respect that this is my decision, and I've already made it. If you're comfortable with the idea, it would make everything a lot easier for me with some help financing this process. I also realize that this may be asking too much.

Me:
I have talked to your mother about this. She (and I) have lots of mixed and emotional feelings about this, as I am sure you assume. Is there a time when your mother and I could come over and talk to you and A***** about this? Honestly, I think it would be a good thing for all of us. I really want you and your mother to start talking to each other again.

We have stuff we are doing both Saturday and Sunday, but could we come over some evening next week? Also, could you give me the name of your endocrinologist?

Love you dearly,
Dad

Dav:
Look, I'm ready to talk about these things if you are. That means putting aside your doubts and fears and trusting that I know what I'm doing after having spent the past two years debating this with myself. I can't deal with your doubts on top of the other barriers to getting to a place where I'll be happy. If you're ready to have a conversation about meeting my goals, I'd be happy to have it. But if you just want to keep trying to slow me down and make me rethink things I've already spent months thinking about, well, I'm really tired of going into these "talks" with the hope that you'll accept it only to be repeatedly disappointed. I'm very patient, but I can only take so much.

Me:
This doesn't feel like patience. It feels like an ultimatum. We have had maybe four conversations over two months about this, and now you are demanding we embrace something that you now tell us you have been debating with yourself for two years. I was hurt by this, and then I was angry, and then I wanted to vomit. Now what? I don't think we can easily "put aside our doubts and fears" about such a monumental life change, at least not at this stage. Does that mean you no longer wish to talk to us?

You asked a specific question about sperm banking. Your mother feels strongly that she would like to have a conversation about this with both you and A*****. Are you willing to have that conversation, or do you hope we will just send money?

Dav:
I'm sorry, it's just that I've come to expect support and understanding from my parents, and so far, what I've received has felt like anything but. I'm willing to have this conversation with you, but every time we've had any conversation so far, I've come away feeling like we've made no progress. Honestly, I don't see why we can't do this over phone or email, but if you feel the need to talk face to face, we can do it next week on either Tuesday or Wednesday.

My own therapist advised: "Don't continue the conversation via email. There is no room for tone or nuance and it is so easy to escalate a discussion beyond what is intended." Which of course is very good advice. But I have this painful little fear down in the pit of my stomach that I am watching the slow disintegration of our family.

Sorry for the length of this, but I just don't have anyone else to talk to about this.

Liz

[Julia_in_Pa]

Elizabeth,


I know this is your child your speaking about but she is of legal age and what she feels she needs to do in order for her to feel whole is exactly what she's doing.
Deep in your heart Elizabeth you know she's right about what she feels she needs to do.
You and especially your wife first need to accept your child unconditionally and give love, compassion and support no matter what your feelings are on the subject.
If she has been debating transition with herself since 19 years of age can you imagine how long she has had these feelings?
Since she is so young she most likely knew she was not a he since she became aware of the difference.
Remember the earlier in life she transitions the more successful she will be in her life's endeavor's as her true self.
Please do not allow yourself or your wife to interfere with her transition.
If you love your child and I know you do, you and your wife have to stop the strangle hold on her.
Let her fly, let her live.


Julia

[sandra-leigh]

I do remember reading your earlier postings.

Under the circumstances, I do understand concern about what is happening and how quickly it is happening. But could you talk more about the hurt, and the anger, and the wanting to vomit ?

What Dav writes about "I can't deal with your doubts on top of the other barriers to getting to a place where I'll be happy." and similar -- that really is quite common in transsexuals. People do not become transsexuals on a whim: they do it because they must. Once they decide they must do these things, the choices for many many narrow to "Do or die". From Dav's perspective, you either take on the role of wanting Dav to (literally) die because you cannot stand the thought of Dav transitioning, or you take on the role of supporting Dav in transition. You are too close to Dav to be allowed the stance of being neutral or background.

Basically, in my estimation, you are going to lose your "son". If you cannot be supportive of your new daughter, you are going to lose her too.

There is potential to position yourself as supporting Dav but wanting the WPATH recommended process to be followed as it has been developed to have the least side effects. You might have to be open about how you already knew about WPATH and about how that was responsible for some of your concerns.

I would, though, point out that having written to Dav about how you wanted to vomit, then you are going to have to do a lot of fence-mending. Someone who is mostly concerned about the health and happiness of their child does not talk to their child that way, not under those circumstances.

Yes, Dav does appear to be rushing or pushing the process. And that is not so uncommon. Once people make up their minds, "therapy" and "getting letters" and even laws can be perceived as being unfair obstacles to be pushed out of the way as soon as possible.

Some of the local people I have talked to say that their experience with the (only) local person authorized to make recommendations to the health care system, consisted mostly of them visiting 3 times (the minimum) and repeating each time, "Yes, I want to do this. Yes I know what I am doing. No, I have not changed my mind." To those people, it seemed like a waste of $500 that could have gone towards their transition. I can see what they mean, even though I do not feel the same way myself about the process.

[TxKimberly]

Elizabeth,

I'm gonna to have to buck Julia here, pretty much on principles. It doesn't matter what her age is - she is still your child and quite frankly, you would be a really shitty parent if you didn't do your best to help your child make the best choices that you can. You haven't indicated that you intend to try and talk her out of it - only that you want to discuss it with her. As a parent of one adult child and two younger children, I can guess that you probably just want to satisfy yourself that she has thought it through and considered all of the ins and outs. As not only an older and more experienced person, but ALSO someone who has an understanding of the TG life, your child is making a foolish decision to not actively seek your advice.

Considering that you are her parent AND you are being asked to help finance this, you have every right to ask for a conversation on the matter. Your child has asked you to fork over a significant amount of money to finance something that you feel may be a bit rash, and all that you have asked for in return is a simple face to face conversation. That is an eminently reasonable request, and to have her give you a petulant, arrogant, and dismissive response is really not at all acceptable. Frankly the dismissive reply that you received would have really pissed me off in a major way.

[Traci Elizabeth]

Elizabeth, I can certainly appreciate you and your wife being typical concerning parents. I have been through that "recent empty nest situation" myself years ago and it is very difficult at that point to stop being a parent with authority to being a parent of an adult who will do as he/she pleases.

It is especially hard when we have the wisdom of our age and experience that the adult child is lacking. But trust me there is a very fine, thin fragile line between giving the counsel of wisdom and interfering.

One an adult child needs and seeks, while the other is deeply regretted by the child.

The sad part in all of this is that you and your wife are showing genuine interest in your child not making serious mistakes with his/her life. But the child sees the opposite as inferring parents.

Bottom line, you must do what you think is right as long as it is "counsel" and not edicts.

You could very easily loose your child if you push too far or cause him/her too much conflict or stress.

I would NOT pay for any of this including banking his sperm. He wants to be an adult so he needs to finance his own choices in life.

The most you can do is either give emotional support even if you disagree, give parental counsel in a non-threatening way then let your child make his/her own decisions, or tell your child he/she is dead wrong and that you will not support or accept his/her decision.

The latter will send your child away maybe for the rest of your life.

These are very hard choices and you have to weight what you know as right with what is right from your child's prospective.

What is more important to you - maintaining mutual love and respect for each others right to live their own life or standing your ground and loosing.

I am sure there have been some parents who have won that dichotomy but I have never seen one in my lifetime.

My heart goes out to ALL of you.

[sandra-leigh]

On counsel versus interfering: I am reminded of a column I read a few days ago, "I think my best friend should dump her fiance (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/family-and-relationships/i-think-my-best-friend-should-dump-her-fiance/article1455929/)"

(David predicted that a friend's marriage would fail, and tried to stop the hurt. The marriage did fail, but...)


The net result of me attempting to horn in on my best friend’s matrimonial plans was zero, except for giving him a perma-grudge to nurse vis-Ã*-vis moi until the end of his days.

I predict a similar outcome in your case, if you attempt to say something to your friend. Unfortunately, painful though it is, sometimes we have to let those near and dear to us make their own mistakes, especially when it comes to the love/relationship/matrimonial department.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Under the circumstances, I do understand concern about what is happening and how quickly it is happening. But could you talk more about the hurt, and the anger, and the wanting to vomit ?
. . .
There is potential to position yourself as supporting Dav but wanting the WPATH recommended process to be followed as it has been developed to have the least side effects. You might have to be open about how you already knew about WPATH and about how that was responsible for some of your concerns.

I would, though, point out that having written to Dav about how you wanted to vomit, then you are going to have to do a lot of fence-mending. Someone who is mostly concerned about the health and happiness of their child does not talk to their child that way, not under those circumstances.

Yes, Dav does appear to be rushing or pushing the process. And that is not so uncommon. Once people make up their minds, "therapy" and "getting letters" and even laws can be perceived as being unfair obstacles to be pushed out of the way as soon as possible.


I apologize for not giving more context. I have told her about my cross dressing, in part to make it easier to discuss what I know, and hopefully to give my opinions more credence. I have told her that I will never reject her no matter what, but that I honestly have some concerns about this. Surely you are not suggesting that I lie to her about my feelings?

The hurt, anger and vomit remark was about my overwhelming sadness over this exchange. It had NOTHING to do with my feelings about transition, and she knows that.

I would be happy if she were to follow the WPATH guidelines. She has seen a psychologist four times, and declines to go back because she "already knows what she want to do." She knows some transgendered individuals on campus, but has never actually met a transexual. He tells me he has done some cross dressing in recent years, but there has been absolutely nothing even close to real life experience.

On the specific sperm bank request, we may wind up paying for it, just as we currently pay for his rent, food, and university. But his live-together girlfriend was in tears when she said she would stick by him. We are not so sure.

She may well be stronger, more centered, and stable than I was as a wreck of a 21 year old, but I will tell you that the certainty with which she clings to this decision feels a bit like fear to admit any doubt. Just as she, I must follow my own conscience.

Liz

[TxKimberly]

Sigh . . .

I very much like the responses offered by Sandra and Traci.

There has to be a happy medium doesn't there? As a parent, shouldn't you make some effort to help your children make the tough decisions? I couldn't agree more that there is a fine line between offering advice and interfering, but I dont think that asking for a single sit down conversation about it is crossing that line. Now if you have that conversation, and then keep trying to change her mind after she made it clear what her decision is, THEN you have crossed the line.

[Aprilrain]

Interesting, I'm glad you told your son about your CDing, I think to keep that hidden at this point would be pointless and hypocritical. I will use masculine pronouns since he is not yet full time. Your well within your "rights" as parents to disagree with your sons choice or have honest doubts and fears. I think your son would do well to continue with therapy and to find a support group where he can meet actual TSes. They will likely be older and he may feel he has nothing in common with them or that they are just plain too old to hang out with, he may lose interest in the group but at least he'd have a little more exposure to the realities of transition. I find it a little troubling that he "expects" support. What he should expect is to lose everyone and everything (not that 20 something's usually have a lot to lose other than family) he should expect, at his age, for transition to take years do to the lack of financial independence. This is the hard reality for most younger transitioners though there are so many other good reasons to transition as young as one can! I think $500 ought a buy you a talk however I wouldn't scold, cajole or badger, instead calmly tell him your fears and then leave it at that he is after all 21. I suspect that since your footing the bill for school you have expectations of some degree of academic success, if it were me I'd keep my end of the bargain (pay for school and rent) and expect he do the same regardless of the mood swings and crying fits. Lol! If your not comfortable with his decision to transition then don't pay for it that in and of its self will slow him down considerably.

Oh and I bet ya 10 to 1 the GF leaves! ; )

[Sally24]

" But I have this painful little fear down in the pit of my stomach that I am watching the slow disintegration of our family." Liz

As long as you all are talking that is not inevitable. I know you are footing most of her bills but you need to realize as parents that you no longer have any control. I've been there and its hard to shift into an advisory role. But she has expressed that she disagrees with your advise. It's time for you to offer support and talk about the future. Maybe an honest discussion of the year of Real Life Experience would be helpful to you both. Don't let any ultimatums be made by anyone involved. She may slow on her own once the hard work of transition starts. That's assuming that a full transition is even what she desires. There are plenty TS that live years as non-ops.

The most important thing you can do now is offer love and support.

[elizabethamy]

liz,

the specific request for $ for sperm banking sounds highly symbolic to me -- almost a test of your faith in Dav's decision. I would probably pay it to avoid a future such as "We could have had children if Dad had believed me when I said I was transsexual..." skip a rent payment or make him buy his/her own car insurance, but don't let this be held over your head forever...parenting is tough, I'm no expert with my own kids of similar ages, but that's my reaction. all the best.

other liz

[Kate T]

I would also be concerned that your son has not thought through or truly looked at the practicalities of what he wishes to do. From my understanding $500 is a drop in the ocean with respect to costs of transition financially. Does he have any idea how he is going to finance this? That sounds mercenary but I think it is an indicator of poorly thought through decision process, along with the reluctance to return to a psychiatrist.

Your son needs to recognise that you still love him even though you may disagree with his decisions. I think it is unfair to intimate the use of an emotional blackmail card (i.e. if you love me then you will do whatever I ask). He has responsibilitie to his family as well. When we are young these are not always on top of our mind and in that respect I can see and understand his position but I believe as a parent you have a right to be heard and understood, as does he.

Good luck. I agree that you must talk face to face. His statements regarding phone and email sound like avoidance in the same way he is avoiding WPATH guidelines.

Best wishes.

[Badtranny]

Your son is extremely brave at an age when I was still working overtime to prove how manly I was. The fact that you cross dress doesn't seem to have any bearing on this discussion. Your son apparently doesn't and is a lot more concerned about getting a real transition underway. Real Life Experience is over rated in the beginning. He is young and in a University cocoon so now is a wonderful time to explore various transition options including HRT. I would never ask my parents for money, but then again they've never given me any or offered to pay for anything so that kind of relationship was never established. If he could reasonably expect you to help him with a similar issue if transition WASN'T involved than I don't see why this situation is any different.

People don't talk about stuff like this if they don't have serious gender issues, CIS people never give their gender a second thought. It's fascinating that you seem to be so resistant to the idea that your son may very well be a transsexual.

[Bree-asaurus]

I think you need to try and accept that this is something he is going to do with or without your support. When I told my parents, I basically told them what's been going on and what I'm going to do. I answered any questions they had. But at no point were they going to have a say in what I do. It isn't up to them. If they want to support me, that's awesome, and I'm glad I have their support. But going down this road was life and death for me. The only person I was going to slow down for is myself if I needed to.

With that said, he should be talking to a therapist to keep everything on track and to provide letters when needed. He can do this the right way and be able to plan for his future, or he can get mad at every turn that the system is against him and potentially destroy his future. Support him and be there for him, but try to help him realize that there is a smart way of doing this. He may want it all RIGHT NOW, but after taking a few steps he's going to have to learn how to be patient because certain things take time regardless of how fast he tries to move.

This is definitely difficult for you and your wife. But understand, this is infinitely more difficult for him.

[Miranda-E]

Elizabeth,
Remember the earlier in life she transitions the more successful she will be in her life's endeavor's as her true self.
Please do not allow yourself or your wife to interfere with her transition.
If you love your child and I know you do, you and your wife have to stop the strangle hold on her.
Let her fly, let her live.


Julia

best advice, especially the bold part.

[Badtranny]

I find it surprising, and perhaps telling, that she shows so little interest in expressing her femininity and taking her place as a female in the world. How many of us T women stepped out into the world without hormones or spiro or padding or corsets or wigs or even electrolysis because we had to express that part of us.

How many of you notwithstanding, there are many of us that didn't. My transition is essentially pending electrolysis and FFS. It was worth it to me to have a full-time presentation wait until I could put my best face forward as it were. Nobody that knows me would question my commitment or my identity. Only cross-dressers think make-up and dresses are necessary for a feminine identity.

[Bree-asaurus]

I find it surprising, and perhaps telling, that she shows so little interest in expressing her femininity and taking her place as a female in the world. How many of us T women stepped out into the world without hormones or spiro or padding or corsets or wigs or even electrolysis because we had to express that part of us.

Not all of us went 24/7 and THEN started hormones and electrolysis and stuff. Some of us want to do our best to look the part, so we don't have to deal with as much discrimination. Being able to be yourself helps, but so does fixing your incorrect body. There isn't one way to transition... and there isn't one way to start.

I'm still not 24/7, but I'm almost there. I've progressively been myself more and more, and I seriously started going out as myself well into undergoing HRT. Hrmm... I must be doing it wrong too!

[LeaP]

Liz,

I, too, recall the past thread on this. Reading this latest information, it seems the exchange is 100% emotional on both sides. You're hurt and want to assert your concerns (valid or not) into the matter. You're being asked for unconditional support and your concerns are obviously neither sought nor wanted. You're being tolerated at best. You need to get the emotion out of this.

Part of the problem is Davin's ongoing dependency, which sets the scene for resentment. You might consider how best to break that in order to set Davin on an adult path of responsibility. Unfortunately, it's probably going to be perceived as manipulative. My suggestion, regardless, is to extend your full blessing to transition (and you'd have to mean it), along with your offer to participate and assist non-financially, but at the cost of ending all other support. The proposition is really this: continue dependency along with all that entails, including accountability to you, or end it and take control over your own (Davin's) life. I suspect Davin's decisions and path will clarify considerably after the uproar settles ... which may take a while. I have no reason to doubt Davin's identity issues or transition conviction and need, but the facts as presented indicate irresponsible thinking, too.

The hardest thing I ever did with one of our (6) children was to not help in order to force responsibility, which was entirely lacking at that point. My daughter and 2 year-old granddaughter were homeless for a period of time as a result. It just about killed me and was brutal on her. But she went from blaming everyone else for her situation, and being on welfare and sleeping until noon to working, stable, and happy. It took 2 years.

As with earlier responses, I wouldn't continue via email, period.

Lea

[Sally24]

Only cross-dressers think make-up and dresses are necessary for a feminine identity.
That seems totally out of place with ValRom's quote about Davins lack of outward expression of her femininity. She was expressing her doubt of someone who is going from rarely expressing her female side to taking hormones. It has nothing to do with "dressing up" and the slight towards CDs was uncalled for.

[sandra-leigh]

From my understanding $500 is a drop in the ocean with respect to costs of transition financially. Does he have any idea how he is going to finance this?

Perhaps Liz could ask about budgeting, but carefully -- such as "We understand that you may end up asking us for some financial support in this process. We wonder if you have a timeline and cost estimate, so that we can prepare our own finances to deal with this?"


Real Life Experience is over rated in the beginning. He is young and in a University cocoon so now is a wonderful time to explore various transition options including HRT.

I have a mid-20's FTM friend in transition who is attending the most liberal and accepting local university -- one that has an active gender studies department, and has an active Gender/Trans Week (with talks and films and high profile speakers), and the students have an annual (serious, not clowny) cross-dressing day. Even with that deliberate official trans-positive attitude, my friend tells me of continued problems with being disrespected. The bathroom is one place he continues to have problems with the students. Earlier he had problems getting one of his professors to use his chosen name and chosen pronouns; I do not know if that problem still continues. (He has also had acute problems from time to time, but I do not feel comfortable in talking about those.)

Last fall a few people posted links in the Media section about the increase in universities allowing students to room in the dorms of their chosen gender. It was nice to see how universities are finally "getting it" in that regard. At the same time, it was discouraging to see the backlash discussions, and the stories of how much opposition there had been in places when the policy change had been proposed.

Many of us have an image of universities and university students as being permissive and generous and "cool" with non-conformity. And some of them really are. But there are a lot of universities that are feeder systems for reinforcement of the status quo (or even that actively favor reducing civil rights.)

University is not necessarily a cocoon, though it might provide some insulation.

Unfortunately, in the circumstances Liz describes, I do not presently see a way to suggest RLE to Dav without sounding like one is putting up a roadblock. Fortunately there are people much more skilled than I at finding good ways to say things.

=====

Liz, I am wondering what subject Dav is studying? I am thinking here of the job market. There are some fields where waiting a couple of years after graduation (i.e., while undergoing physical and legal transition) would not be a big deal, but there are other fields where not getting a job upon or a few months after graduation would tend to lead to the suspicion that the reason for the delay was that the person was not very competent or not dedicated enough. The firms that tend to offer jobs to the students of the subject Dav is studying: do those tend to be progressive firms or more traditional firms? So if Dav did get a job upon graduation and did the physical transition a few years later, would that tend to be a problem with the employers (e.g., you aren't supposed to be "different")? Does it happen to be a field where there is a lot of emphasis on "what you can do" (e.g., computing), or is it more a field where "lucky breaks" and "who you know" tend to be quite important?

[Amber99]

My advice is to support this decision because it sounds like it's to the point where that is the only way you will keep your child in your life. Some people have to work through so much self doubt to get the confidence they need to come out to their parents that they have totally solidified their resolve to move forward by that point. If they were going to be convinced otherwise they would have already convinced themselves.

My 2 cents based purely on the conversation you posted.

[Kate T]

Perhaps Liz could ask about budgeting, but carefully -- such as "We understand that you may end up asking us for some financial support in this process. We wonder if you have a timeline and cost estimate, so that we can prepare our own finances to deal with this?"



I think a very good approach. It would enable a reengagement whilst still showing empathy and concern and not ruling out assistance. It also enables Davin to show you that she has thought this through and reassure some of the doubts you and your wife may have.

[Aprilrain]

I see people quoted ValRom but I don't see her post????????

[SuzanneBender]

Elizabeth it sound to me that you do support her transition, but you just want her to take it a little slower. I think the key here is that you let her know that you support her. I have a daughter the same age and this is no difference than some of the issues that I have discussed with her. You owe it to her to voice your opinion and concerns, but in the end she is an adult and will make the decisions that she feels is best. Make sure you are consistently couching your "advice" with support. This is a tough time for her and she needs the unconditional support of her Mom and Dad even when you are not in favor of her choice.

I also like her Psychologist's advice. Stop discussing this via email. This is to big a discussion to conduct via email. I would do it on the phone at the very least and even better in person.

Good luck dear I am sure all will turn out well especially if both of you are patient with each other and take the time to listen to each other's side.

[Krististeph]

I'm agreeing with Kimberly Huddle- support is good- but the young-un has to realize there are a lots of people with a lot more experience than they've lived- and no medical pro will allow physical modification without a reasonable standard of counseling. Period.

Cross dress to your heart's desire- live full time, knock yourself out- but when you start to modify your body- if you refuse medical counseling- you are being irrational.

[Bree-asaurus]

I see people quoted ValRom but I don't see her post????????

I think she deleted it. If a mod deleted it, they probably would have removed the quoting posts as well.

[EnglishRose]

I'm agreeing with Kimberly Huddle- support is good- but the young-un has to realize there are a lots of people with a lot more experience than they've lived- and no medical pro will allow physical modification without a reasonable standard of counseling. Period.

Cross dress to your heart's desire- live full time, knock yourself out- but when you start to modify your body- if you refuse medical counseling- you are being irrational.

The standards of care currently specify three months of counseling, which could well have been met here. Also a doctor has prescribed apparently. So that would be the medical pro...?

[arbon]

The standards of care currently specify three months of counseling, which could well have been met here. Also a doctor has prescribed apparently. So that would be the medical pro...?


No, they don't require three months of counseling or RLE. They used to.

SOC 7 -
1. Persistent, well-documented gender dysphoria;
2. Capacity to make a fully informed decision and to consent for treatment;
3. Age of majority in a given country (if younger, follow the Standards of Care outlined in section
VI);
4. If significant medical or mental health concerns are present, they must be reasonably wellcontrolled.


She was prescribed spiro (which is pretty safe) by endocrinologist. In my mind that is pretty good medical care - it is not like she is self medicating,

As far as rushing - I started HRT only a month after my first time out in public. I am sure many of us can be accused of going to fast and not considering how it effects other people, that we are ignoring how they feel about it, by people in our lives.

In college - maybe she can be reasonably passable and lives in a state where you can change your gender marker on your divers license or state ID without surgery (she is young, hrt can do have amazing effect when young), if she transitions now she could graduate as herself and enter the job market as her gender, without having to go through all the difficulty trying to transition at a job. Why create more history as a man? Really I think if she is considering transition starting hrt now is the thing to do. Why wait.

[DebbieL]

Did Dav know about Liz? I suspect that both of you may have a great deal to talk about. Your son has probably been struggling with this issue for at least 10-15 years, and has been doing everything in his power to hide it from so many people that he may have been afraid to talk to you about it before.

The good thing for you is that as Liz, you actually have more to talk about. You're lucky, your son survived, many transsexuals don't live much beyond their twenties, or they go into the closet so deeply that they can't be honest about anything with anyone. The fact that your son/daughter has taken the courageous step and told you how she really feels, and is willing to ask for your help, and would like to assure you the opportunity to have grand-children, is a very good sign that you have extraordinarily good communication with your child.

As hard as it may be for you, you really need to think about the alternatives? If you attempt to "put your foot down", you could find that your child will sever all contacts with you, move as far away as possible, and may even give up the chance to have grandchildren. Worse, he could attempt to please you and live as a man, hating you and blaming you for his being forced to endure it. Even worse, he could end up realizing that he can't live as a man, and that he thinks it's too late to become a woman - and end his life.

Clearly, this is something he has thought about his whole life, probably before he even discovered sexual arousal. The world of boys is competitive and violent, boys have to be trained not to hit girls, but the adults assume that boys hitting each other is somehow normal and healthy. But if you re transgendered, you don't hit back, which means you get hit more often - as a "sissy".

Often, almost out of instinct for survival, the transgendered boy starts to play with girls, who don't hit, and learns of a softer, gentler world, where the games are based on nurture and cooperation, where the games are more artistic and the clothes are softer and there is a lot of laughter, and it's OK to cry.

But then comes the day, when it's no longer acceptable to play with the girls, when a parent or teacher decides that the boys shouldn't play with the girls, and the girls shouldn't play with the boys. The tom-boy might be able to cross the boundry, but she knows that she will have to fight and compete, and WIN! The sissy knows that even if he wanted to keep playing with the girls, the teacher wouldn't allow it, and it would just make the boys want to beat him up that much more often.

Finally, at 21 years old, he's legally old enough to make the decision for himself. You might have thought that 21 was the age when you could drink legally, or maybe even when you might want to think about getting married. For him, he has probably been thinking about the day when he was 21 as soon as he found out that he had to wait until he was 21 to begin the transition process without having to get parental consent.

I was 6 when they stared beating me up for being a sissy, and by the time I was 8, I had already begged a psychologist to help me turn into a girl. I still didn't understand that such things were not possible (in 1964 it wasn't possible, the most one could hope for was castration).

In some countries, like India, boys will run away from home to join a cult of "girls" who have themselves castrated to become more feminine. The cult is over 9,000 years old.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

How many of you notwithstanding, there are many of us that didn't. My transition is essentially pending electrolysis and FFS. It was worth it to me to have a full-time presentation wait until I could put my best face forward as it were. Nobody that knows me would question my commitment or my identity. Only cross-dressers think make-up and dresses are necessary for a feminine identity.

I was the same way... one difference is that i did 3 months of RLT prior to my FFS "just to double check"...hehe... my therapist says i had the most methodical and risk averse transition she's seen..(maybe its because i used to be a risk manager for a company..heh)

++++++++++++++++++++

as far as the OP...

i think the folks that mentioned the difficulty of email are spot on.
Get out of email land and hopefully that will improve communications..

Maybe you can set a time to talk on the phone. make it official and YOU start by expressing your support...challenge her not by attacking her decision (which you are doing now, whether you mean to or not), but by asking for a specific and well thought out plan...

frankly the idea of banking sperm shows very strong foresight and wisdom..

The generation of our children is incredibly facile with information in ways that surprise me all the time. I bet she knows ALOT about transition and can perhaps calm your fears.

[Tamara Croft]

I see people quoted ValRom but I don't see her post????????

She deleted it herself.

[Stephanie-L]

To echo what several people have said, definately talk in person. But having said that, your child is asking you to support them, which it seems you are doing, but also you want them not to make an irreversable mistake. The thing about going ahead with HRT while not only having had very few counselling appointments, but openly rejecting them, is worrysome to me. Why are they being rejected? There could be many things here, your child could be correct, they are TS and don't need someone to tell them that, possible, even probable. They could also just have found a bad counseller, some don't even believe in or acknowledge TS. Or your child could also not be truely TS, or not yet ready for this step, and the counseller picked up on it, and your child resents the counseller for it.
Also, the part about not dressing very often has me curious. It is true that dressing really has little to do with TG/TS, but someone who does little to identify with the target gender but still identifies as TS does raise some flags. In my case, I am officially diagnosed, which is helpful in dealing with all of the other professionals in the process, but I also rarely dress, not because I don't want to, but because I have other obstacles to deal with. I do try to express my femininity in subtle ways as much as possible, and this helps. Perhaps this is what your child is doing at this point.
The sperm banking thing I see in two ways. First, yes it is a sensible and mature precaution, but it also strikes me as a bit of "have your cake and eat it too" thinking. Yes, your child deserves to have children of their own, but being TS does involve giving up some of the things of the birth gender. I am of very mixed feeling about that whole aspect, as I am sure are many here.
As for the money, $500 is a drop in the bucket when it comes to TS stuff. Most of the MTFs have spent many times that on something as simple as hair removal, I know I have. When you get to things like FFS, Breast augs, and of course SRS, then you are talking real money. Your child needs to consider this, life ain't cheap, and being a TS is really expensive. If they are worrying about something like this money wise, what is going to happen when they get to the really expensive stuff, are they going to expect you to pay for that too? Before they go very much further down the road, they need to develop some sort of financial plan.

Personally, I think that your child does owe you the simple courtesy of talking to you about what they want the money for and the consequences of their actions. It does not seem to me that you are trying to stop them, just making sure that they are not making rash decisions, like a parent should. I am having enough problems dealing with my own transition, dealing with someone elses cannot be easy either. Good luck to everyone involved and let us know what happens......Stephanie

[Badtranny]

It has nothing to do with "dressing up" and the slight towards CDs was uncalled for.

Please quote the offending comment and explain why it would be considered a "slight".

[Sally24]

Please quote the offending comment and explain why it would be considered a "slight".

I already did that. Starting a negative comment with "only a crossdresser would" isn't discourse and is a good way to start a devisif, off topic fight.

[Badtranny]

I already did that. Starting a negative comment with "only a crossdresser would" isn't discourse and is a good way to start a devisif, off topic fight.

I'd sure like to meet a cross-dresser who doesn't think that dresses and make-up are necessary to express their feminine identity.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Some of the responses on this thread were difficult, or even painful, but I am glad that all of you responded. Some of this I needed to hear, whether I liked it or not. I am working hard at adjusting my own head. So, thank you.

It does not help that I feel caught between Dav and his mother, who is devastated and will have a very hard time coming to terms with this. Add in my own cross dressing to the intransigent child and crying mother and the tension around here is unbelievable. I don't think I am going to get through this intact.

There has been some progress. Dav and his girlfriend are coming to dinner tomorrow. Perhaps more importantly, I managed to get my wife to dinner with a transitioned woman, who was very helpful. The really good discussion lasted three hours. But then she cried on the way home.

All of your comments were valuable, and a few needed comment.


Liz,
Part of the problem is Davin's ongoing dependency, which sets the scene for resentment. You might consider how best to break that in order to set Davin on an adult path of responsibility. Unfortunately, it's probably going to be perceived as manipulative.
Lea
This will resolve itself. He knows that we have always said that we would only support him through University. He knows that we are using money that would have been for our own retirement, and doesn't expect more than that. That said, we have always been a pushover for our children. His 27 year old sister "borrowed" money for rent in January.



Liz, I am wondering what subject Dav is studying? I am thinking here of the job market. There are some fields where waiting a couple of years after graduation (i.e., while undergoing physical and legal transition) would not be a big deal, but there are other fields where not getting a job upon or a few months after graduation would tend to lead to the suspicion that the reason for the delay was that the person was not very competent or not dedicated enough. The firms that tend to offer jobs to the students of the subject Dav is studying: do those tend to be progressive firms or more traditional firms? So if Dav did get a job upon graduation and did the physical transition a few years later, would that tend to be a problem with the employers (e.g., you aren't supposed to be "different")? Does it happen to be a field where there is a lot of emphasis on "what you can do" (e.g., computing), or is it more a field where "lucky breaks" and "who you know" tend to be quite important?
My chance to brag a little. He is very bright and doing well in an Environmental Technology and Policy program. A paper written for one of his classes last year won a $500 prize and is being published, and he just got a job, as an undergraduate, on a federally funded research project.

I have talked to him about this. Most of the employment in this field would be in the public sector, which is probably a good thing for him. At the moment, he would like to go to grad school and wind up teaching at a University somewhere. I did it for a while and it is a great life, but he obviously is not thinking about his future financial needs.


She was prescribed spiro (which is pretty safe) by endocrinologist. In my mind that is pretty good medical care - it is not like she is self medicating,

I have a specific question about this. The transitioned TS we had dinner with said that this is one of the most powerful testosterone blockers in use, and that it could render him permanently impotent. I have searched the Internet for information and can find nothing either way. Can someone help me figure this one out?

The thing about going ahead with HRT while not only having had very few counselling appointments, but openly rejecting them, is worrysome to me. Why are they being rejected? There could be many things here, your child could be correct, they are TS and don't need someone to tell them that, possible, even probable. They could also just have found a bad counseller, some don't even believe in or acknowledge TS. Or your child could also not be truely TS, or not yet ready for this step, and the counseller picked up on it, and your child resents the counseller for it.

I need to correct myself here. After looking at the benefits on our insurance, it seems that over the past 1-2 years that he has seen a psychiatrist, a licensed social worker, and a psychologist. I am not sure exactly why all of the shopping around. He did say that the social worker developed an inappropriate relationship with him. About all he would say was that it was clear he was her favorite patient.



It is especially hard when we have the wisdom of our age and experience that the adult child is lacking. But trust me there is a very fine, thin fragile line between giving the counsel of wisdom and interfering.

One an adult child needs and seeks, while the other is deeply regretted by the child.

I know. All of you are saying this. I am trying. The really odd part is that we had already made that transition. Whenever he comes home, it is always a joy to sit and discuss things as two adults. I have not felt the need for years to give unasked advice. I am confident that we will always be in each other's lives, and I know this is awkward for both of us.


I think your son would do well to continue with therapy and to find a support group where he can meet actual TSes. They will likely be older and he may feel he has nothing in common with them or that they are just plain too old to hang out with, he may lose interest in the group but at least he'd have a little more exposure to the realities of transition.
I agree, and we are going to try to get him to meet with the TS woman we had dinner with. She is also part of a local support group, and we are going to urge him to get some exposure to others. It seems that the university population has lots of support for G, L, and B, but not so much for T.

Again, thanks, for your thoughts.
Liz

[Aprilrain]

Spiro is effective, it does the job and is the best option available in the US but its hardly the most powerful anti androgen around. It's pretty safe which is why Drs like it.

Any anti T med will cause a reduction in sexual function wether or not one goes completely impotent is a mater of personal physiology.

I'm curious why you are concerned about this? Most TSes are at best ambivalent about their penises and more likely want nothing to do with it. It doesn't really get any more male than a hard on so the inability to get one is usually quite welcome.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Spiro is effective, it does the job and is the best option available in the US but its hardly the most powerful anti androgen around. It's pretty safe which is why Drs like it.

Any anti T med will cause a reduction in sexual function wether or not one goes completely impotent is a mater of personal physiology.

I'm curious why you are concerned about this? Most TSes are at best ambivalent about their penises and more likely want nothing to do with it. It doesn't really get any more male than a hard on so the inability to get one is usually quite welcome.

It is a bit uncomfortable for Dav to discuss his sex life with his father, but I have the impression that he enjoys an active sex life with his SO. But I may have misstated my concern about spiro. What I was told was that spiro would make him permanently sterile. Sorry for using the wrong word.

Liz

[Kate T]

I'm curious why you are concerned about this? Most TSes are at best ambivalent about their penises and more likely want nothing to do with it. It doesn't really get any more male than a hard on so the inability to get one is usually quite welcome.

The concern I interpreted as one being the possibility of irreversible sterility i.e. not just impotence but lack of sperm production. This is possible with any antiandrogen. This adverse effect would mean that IF Dav decided after time that transition was not for her then she would not be able to have her own biological children.

Liz
I don't know if a parent can ever stop wanting to "interfere" in their childrens lives to stop them from making what we perceive as a poor decision. I cannot fault you for that. However the greatest step and act of love that we can do is to let them go. There are some decisions that only they can make for themselves and this will be one of them.

Yourself and your wife particularly are grieving for the lost future you had imagined for your child. In it's place however is a new future, different but still beautiful in it's own way. Fear of the unknown is likely to be at root of your distress. Trust in your love for each other, your wife and your children, and you can conquer the fear and see joy and happiness through the sadness.

[Bree-asaurus]

It is a bit uncomfortable for Dav to discuss his sex life with his father, but I have the impression that he enjoys an active sex life with his SO. But I may have misstated my concern about spiro. What I was told was that spiro would make him permanently sterile. Sorry for using the wrong word.

Liz

He can use Spiro for a few months and stop and regain fertility. But from what I've read/heard/been told, long term use will make him sterile. This is why the whole sperm bank thing is important. I think that there's a chance that after being on Spiro over a long period, stopping for several months may allow fertility to return, but it's not guaranteed.

[Stephenie S]

Can I address this? Long term spiro use will NOT result in sterility. There are lots of guys on Spiro for blood pressure control. This is just another scare tactic.

"Run for the hills! Hormones will make you sterile! Hormones will make you sterile! No. Castration will make you sterile."

The sperm bank thing has nothing to do with spiro use. It has to do with the fact that TG women are castrated along with SRS. However, I continually fail to see why a TG WOMAN would want to keep the ability to be a father. This sounds like a pretty insecure transgender woman to me.

S

[Becoming Brianna]

Stephanie,

This is just my personal belief stated as someone who is considering the sperm bank option if\when I transition... It is not the desire to be a father that matters to the woman, it is the desire to raise children (something that unfortunately current science does not allow people to do post-transition I sure wish it did)... Having some of your own genetic material to contribute to the process takes away a lot of the messiness of adoption for TG people who may face discrimination in the adoption process... I don't believe it is a matter of insecurity of identity at all Or at least it is not necessarily the case that one who considers this option is insecure about her identity...

[Bree-asaurus]

Can I address this? Long term spiro use will NOT result in sterility. There are lots of guys on Spiro for blood pressure control. This is just another scare tactic.

"Run for the hills! Hormones will make you sterile! Hormones will make you sterile! No. Castration will make you sterile."

The sperm bank thing has nothing to do with spiro use. It has to do with the fact that TG women are castrated along with SRS. However, I continually fail to see why a TG WOMAN would want to keep the ability to be a father. This sounds like a pretty insecure transgender woman to me.

S

Are you sure? Because transexuals generally take much higher dosages for HRT than they would take for blood pressure or water retention. And I don't believe it's the Spiro itself that causes the infertility, but the fact that after prolonged periods of high dosages, the testicles atrophy from lack of use. Do you know if the testicles return to their normal function after such atrophy?

And sperm banking isn't to keep the ability to be a father, it's to keep the ability to be a PARENT, a MOTHER, to have children of THEIR OWN. I don't know where insecurity comes from... I don't understand your statement at all...

[Stephenie S]

Dear Bree,

You are absolutely correct. TG women take MASSIVE amounts of spiro compared to those who take spiro for BP control. And it may be true that prolonged periods of use MAY have some bearing on the issue. But we just don't know. In such situations it's often best to rely on things we DO know rather than speculate on things we don''t.

I am not sure how much testicles and penis actually atrophy. Again, anecdotal reports are all over the map. But it IS anecdotal only. Penis and testicular shrinking is a common buzzword around TG circles. But there does seems to be very little actual evidence about this. However, we DO know that castration results in absolute sterility.

Gatekeeping is alive and well in the TG therapeutic community. I have heard all the same things you have heard. Screaming (or just stating) that hormone therapy causes permanent sterility has not been proven and there seems to be little to no evidence to back up this statement.

Stephie

[Bree-asaurus]

Dear Bree,

You are absolutely correct. TG women take MASSIVE amounts of spiro compared to those who take spiro for BP control. And it may be true that prolonged periods of use MAY have some bearing on the issue. But we just don't know. In such situations it's often best to rely on things we DO know rather than speculate on things we don''t.

I am not sure how much testicles and penis actually atrophy. Again, anecdotal reports are all over the map. But it IS anecdotal only. Penis and testicular shrinking is a common buzzword around TG circles. But there does seems to be very little actual evidence about this. However, we DO know that castration results in absolute sterility.

Gatekeeping is alive and well in the TG therapeutic community. I have heard all the same things you have heard. Screaming (or just stating) that hormone therapy causes permanent sterility has not been proven and there seems to be little to no evidence to back up this statement.

Stephie

Yeah... I was trying to find out for myself at one point and couldn't find any definitive information one way or the other. But if you want to have kids and are messing with stuff that MAY cause infertility, it's probably a smart idea to save some of those little wigglers. Especially if you plan on any kind of genital surgery.

My penis hasn't atrophied, but my testicals are about half the size they used to be. I ran out of my t-blockers for two weeks and nothing really changed. But that may not have been enough time to let those parts resume function if they were capable of it. Again, all we can go by is what other people experience since there isn't enough medical documentation on this stuff.

[Stephenie S]

Uh huh!

And by the way, dear, you clean up real nice!

Stephie

[EnglishRose]

My penis hasn't atrophied, but my testicals are about half the size they used to be. I ran out of my t-blockers for two weeks and nothing really changed. But that may not have been enough time to let those parts resume function if they were capable of it. Again, all we can go by is what other people experience since there isn't enough medical documentation on this stuff.

Strangely enough, in five months mine have been the other way around - p shrinkage, but the testes testingly have stayed about the same. Oh and my last O was almost dry. That was really weird, and very welcome actually.

[Bree-asaurus]

Strangely enough, in five months mine have been the other way around - p shrinkage, but the testes testingly have stayed about the same. Oh and my last O was almost dry. That was really weird, and very welcome actually.

Well my penis is smaller when flaccid, but that's due to a lack of blood flow. I'm thinking testosterone or something causes increased blood flow at times other than arousal. Without the T, in it's flaccid state, it has less blood flow than it used to, making it appear smaller. When erect, it is still the same size as it was before. Then again, it hurts a little when erect sometimes, like it's stretching too far. Maybe it is shrinking just a bit? (2 years on HRT)

Is this discussion getting too graphic for the open forum? It is kind of getting off topic anyway...

[Aprilrain]

It is a bit uncomfortable for Dav to discuss his sex life with his father, but I have the impression that he enjoys an active sex life with his SO. But I may have misstated my concern about spiro. What I was told was that spiro would make him permanently sterile. Sorry for using the wrong word.

Liz

it seems as if he is aware of that potentiality and planing for it by banking his sperm.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Okay, thanks for all the comments about spiro. It would have been nice if everyone had agreed, but at least I learned quite a bit about it.

New question. Last night we had Dav and his SO over to dinner to discuss this sperm bank question. In the course of the conversation, Dav alleged that in his research, his penis will remain fully functional even after becoming sterile (he and his SO both seem to be fond of his organ). In particular, he said he would always be able to get erections, even it it might require the use of Viagra.

This is not my understanding. What is the experience of forum members here?

Thanks,
Liz

[Aprilrain]

Its entirely possible that he could maintain erections throughout transition however its just as likely he will not be able to achieve a useful erection. All of that depends on his personal physiology.
If some one came to the TS support group I occasionally attend I would tell them not to plan on being able to have a useful erection, I don't like to blow pink smoke up anyones A$$. I think a person considering transition should expect the worse. I can still get an erection when I masturbate but I rarely get one during sex but then again I pretty much keep my penis out of the equation during sex.

[LeaP]

Wow. Davin is entertaining some seriously confusing thoughts. The mechanics of the penis aren't going to change, obviously. Blood flow and valves will work as designed. That Davin appears to be thinking of a fully active sex life with a male organ while on HRT is what's confused. People can. People do. Reportedly usually with difficulty. But a lot of them aren't terribly interested terribly often, besides reporting the experience as very different pre-HRT. My point isn't so much on that, though, as it is the notion that Davin seems to permanently want to retain the organ yet is desperate to transition. Granted, many TSs never have SRS for a variety of reasons, but I don't think I've read of this kind of rationale much.

Lea

[Inna]

Liz, Do you want to have possibly grandchildren of your own blood or Don't! This is no longer about you controlling someone else life who by now is AN INDIVIDUAL!

I talked to you before on the previous thread but now I am dumb found, simply speechless, what are you seeking especially knowing what you know about transgender issues, or DO YOU!

30-42% suicide rate and yet you do not trust you child not support her efforts to live life as she feels whole and just, LISTEN to her words, she is not asking for approval but simple fact of financial help.

I am being blunt, and perhaps the tone of this post cuts deeply, and may hurt, but I have directly experienced such doubtful passive support and it felt as though the person on the other end didn't love me a bit. I know different about you and yes you do love her very much but take the leap of faith, and support her heart not put up fences with deceitful trust or your own insecurities.

All she needs is a simple answer YES (if you can) or NO, but not lecture nor debate.

And even if you say yes, you have plenty of time to talk further which i am so sure you shall!

Let love conquer our fears, and allow truth to penetrate doubt.

[arbon]

What was down there died about 3 weeks after I started on E. No erections since, voluntary or involuntary. I am happy that it is not working.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Liz, Do you want to have possibly grandchildren of your own blood or Don't! This is no longer about you controlling someone else life who by now is AN INDIVIDUAL!

I talked to you before on the previous thread but now I am dumb found, simply speechless, what are you seeking especially knowing what you know about transgender issues, or DO YOU!

30-42% suicide rate and yet you do not trust you child not support her efforts to live life as she feels whole and just, LISTEN to her words, she is not asking for approval but simple fact of financial help.

I am being blunt, and perhaps the tone of this post cuts deeply, and may hurt, but I have directly experienced such doubtful passive support and it felt as though the person on the other end didn't love me a bit. I know different about you and yes you do love her very much but take the leap of faith, and support her heart not put up fences with deceitful trust or your own insecurities.

All she needs is a simple answer YES (if you can) or NO, but not lecture nor debate.

And even if you say yes, you have plenty of time to talk further which i am so sure you shall!

Let love conquer our fears, and allow truth to penetrate doubt.

Inna,
I really do appreciate your comments on this, and don't mind any tone you feel is appropriate. In fact, your and others comments have moved my thinking on this.

The discussion last night did not include any debate or challenges. I know Dav to be a careful and thoughtful researcher, and they came over to discuss financial issues. The discussion of sperm banking lead inevitably to their expectations for the future. Within that context, their expectation for a continued sex life was discussed (delicately).

Actually, I am less alarmed by the situation than I was. The affordability of the sperm banking was discussed in light of potential future expenses, and I was a bit surprised when Dav suggested that the major costs of this transition would be for HRT and electrolysis for hair removal. He confirmed that he "does not expect" to have any surgeries. I am not quite sure where that leaves the life he anticipates having, but as you say, he is an adult and I have not challenged him on this.

As to your concern about suicide or his mental health, Dav himself brushes that aside. Of course I could be misled, but my impression is that Dav continues to be happy and enjoying life, his SO, his field of study, and University life in general.

Liz

[Inna]

Thank god you took it well! I was a bit worried that I have overstepped my soft boundaries of helpful assurance and supportive mind set. But there within the letter, you did share with us, were the words of your child, clear and precise, her mind set made up as to the direction she wants her life to proceed and her plea for your continuing love, she so desperately needs.
You are a great parent and brave to bring such personal issue to the forum, and I must learn that not every parent will take steps I would have taken faced with this circumstance. And also that I am not in the midst of such but merely looking from a far and distant to your inner feeling of inevitable loss. Speaking with my loving mother and son, they both admit that the biggest hurdle the biggest pain is the fact that the image of a man they used to love so much had died and they shall never again be able to glimpse onto his so familiar stance. Yes they still look into my eyes but do they?

You must be going through these emotions face on and I do admire your candidness.


Always loving sometimes irritating :), Inna

[Bree-asaurus]

Okay, thanks for all the comments about spiro. It would have been nice if everyone had agreed, but at least I learned quite a bit about it.

New question. Last night we had Dav and his SO over to dinner to discuss this sperm bank question. In the course of the conversation, Dav alleged that in his research, his penis will remain fully functional even after becoming sterile (he and his SO both seem to be fond of his organ). In particular, he said he would always be able to get erections, even it it might require the use of Viagra.

This is not my understanding. What is the experience of forum members here?

Thanks,
Liz

It varies from person to person.

I never get involuntary erections, but when my boyfriend turns me on, I do. I can even use it for a while. Usually though I lose the erection or it becomes hard to maintain. I think a lot of it has to do with my mental state. If your son (daughter) doesn't hate his parts, maybe he'll still be able to use them. But maybe not. There's no way to tell until he's actually undergoing HRT.

As for your other post saying he doesn't plan on having any surgeries, he doesn't have to. He may not be able to change his birth certificate and passport without SRS though. But things change. On the long path of self acceptance and transition, what he feels one day may not be what he feels the next. He could very well change his mind and want surgeries 6 months or a year from now. But that's something he will have to find out down the road.

And who knows... maybe he will start down this path and realize that it's not for him. But he needs to figure that out for himself.

[Elizabeth Ann]

Thank god you took it well! I was a bit worried that I have overstepped my soft boundaries of helpful assurance and supportive mind set.

Speaking with my loving mother and son, they both admit that the biggest hurdle the biggest pain is the fact that the image of a man they used to love so much had died and they shall never again be able to glimpse onto his so familiar stance.


Always loving sometimes irritating :), Inna

Inna,
I know you have a good heart, Sweetie, and I love that you care enough to speak frankly.

And yes, I have loved having a son. I will miss that.

Liz

[Julia_in_Pa]

Elizabeth,

Your child is correct. After 11 years of full HRT I am still able to function within the confines of erection and climax.
I've always been sterile but that has never effected my ability to fully function.


Julia



Okay, thanks for all the comments about spiro. It would have been nice if everyone had agreed, but at least I learned quite a bit about it.

New question. Last night we had Dav and his SO over to dinner to discuss this sperm bank question. In the course of the conversation, Dav alleged that in his research, his penis will remain fully functional even after becoming sterile (he and his SO both seem to be fond of his organ). In particular, he said he would always be able to get erections, even it it might require the use of Viagra.

This is not my understanding. What is the experience of forum members here?

Thanks,
Liz

[Elizabeth Ann]

Way off topic, but . . .

Julia, I just cannot figure out what that illustration is in your signature. It is trivial to wonder, I suppose, but it is like that very small rock in your shoe that you just can't ignore.

Liz

[sandra-leigh]

Its entirely possible that he could maintain erections throughout transition however its just as likely he will not be able to achieve a useful erection. All of that depends on his personal physiology.

I lost the great majority of my ability to have an erection as soon as I made the decision to start HRT, before I had taken a single pill.

A small number of times in the 15 months since, I have deliberately tried to get an erection, to see if that subsystem can still do what it used to. It was like waving around a small plastic bag filled with lukewarm water, and not much more effective. The pleasant feelings were gone. One of the two times I got a small internal contraction; the other time nothing.

I never tried viagra. I haven't had a reason to.

Spiro does really nasty numbers to the blood pressure needed to start and maintain an erection.

These days, I do know that I can have some kind of erection, as I still sometimes get one when I read erotic romance stories. Just enough that I can feel there is some stiffness there. Maximum length is less than half the length it used to be, and maximum thickness is a farce.

I have not had any occasion to test with a Real Live Human, but I think it would be fairly difficult for me to maintain pressure against any muscle resistance at all. Now of course psychology is deeply involved, and perhaps I would be surprised at what was still possible with foreplay and an eager partner.

Length: these days I have to take care because the base is just barely large enough to grasp to guide urination.

This is my experience. I gather that other people's experiences are not often as extreme.

(Yeah, realizing and more-or-less-accepting that I would never have male-type sex again was difficult for me psychologically. Not that I had had much of it in my life, but there was always later, always the hope things would get better. And suddenly Things Aren't Going To Get Better. Felt like sh*t. Felt like a wasted life in that part of my life. Nice guys don't just finish last, they get asked to volunteer to help with the folding chairs and to help hand out water-bottles...)