What acceptance and why it is the incorrect word all to often used.

[Katesback]

I was thinking about this because I see CDs use the word acceptance a lot and I tend to think it is an incorrect word all to often used. Below is the definition of the word acceptance.


ac·cept·ance
   [ak-sep-tuhns] Show IPA

noun
1.
the act of taking or receiving something offered.

2.
favorable reception; approval; favor.

3.
the act of assenting or believing: acceptance of a theory.

4.
the fact or state of being accepted or acceptable.

So you ask, Katie why are you saying acceptance is the wrong word to use? You do not see the word PARTICIPATORY in the definition. A lot of CDs are using the word and erroniously attaching the word participatory to it.

The point is that your wife can be accepting of you being a CD but that DOES NOT MEAN she wants anything to do with the CD activities of you.

Just thought guys.

Katie

[Bailey_in_Mansfield]

Sobering, and maybe not what some people want to hear, but it's true. "Tolerance" is sometimes the more appropriate word, I would think.

EDIT: Thanks for having the guts to say what might not exactly be popular.

[Jessica Who]

Very true, never thought of it this way.

[Barbara Ella]

This is why my wife insists that she is supportive of me, but will never accept cross dressing, and she is participating in her support.

Babes

[JessHaust]

My wife accepts me, meaning that she gives favorable recption, approval and favor to the actions that I offer. Definitions 1 & 2. I know she wants something to do with it because she participates, and encourages the behavior. When I'm at an event with 45 other CD girls, and my wife is there, enjoying herself, chatting with other girls and thier wives, I call that participating.
When my wife suggests shoes to match an outfit I just bought, when she buys me earings while shopping for herself, I call that encouraging.
Most the girls here use the term acceptance correctly, and many correctly identify their wives as tolerant.
It sounds like you believe we don't know the difference, but most do, I think you just have a hard time accepting it.

[Joanne f]

I think acceptance comes somewhere in the middle of , acknowledgement - acceptance- supportive, a wife/so can acknowledge the fact that you do it but not accept it , then she can accept that you do it but not want to support or participate in it , and then you jump up to the supportive bit but that still does not necessarily mean participation, so yes acceptance can be misunderstood or miss used some times .

[Marleena]

Great question Katie!

In my case my wife accepts and participates. So yes acceptance. She helps me with shopping, fashion ideas, and we have booked vacations with me enfemme. She also understands I never asked for this and was totally open with her. She is not threatened by it. She likes the fact that since I've accepted it as part of who I am I am much more relaxed and happy. We get along better. When it comes to sex she still gets a man in the bedroom not a girl though. There are different levels of acceptance though so keep that in mind, I'm just talking about us.:)

We have always gotten along though. I have never been an a$$hole to her. So I think if you have a solid marriage beforehand it will help, but there are variables with each SO such as their upbringing, religious beliefs, etc.

[Karren H]

I've always said there is no such thing as acceptance. Just varying degrees of tolerance.... From 0 to 99%.

[DAVIDA]

In my case, Jean LOVES me.:D
With that, it includes letting me be, ME!:thumbsup:
She is the one who finally got me believing that this is why I am the person that I am. It all has to do with the whole person. If I weren't TG, I would be a different person all together and she might not have fallen in love with me.
So, accepts, tolerates, allows, or however you describe it, she does it.:thumbsup:
No wonder I love her more today than the day we were married!:o

[PretzelGirl]

Yes, we tend to swing around on wording a lot here. Accepting is a good one to use, but like you said, there are varying pieces and parts to this that have to be described separately to be completely clear. I love Davida's statement. And I view my wife as accepting and participating.

[Renee W]

From what I have read posted by many of the members here, we can almost classify our SOs into 4 categories when it comes to dealing with our CDing:

Level 1-Tolerance: When an SO acknowledges the fact that you CD, but wants it to remain on a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". You can do it in private, but are not encouraged to even talk about it to her.

Level 2-Acceptance: When the SO acknowledges the fact that you CD, doesn't mind talking about it or maybe even shops or buys items for you, but insists that you do in private when she is not around.

Level 3-Supportive: For those cases where the SO acknowledges that you CD and she doesn't mind when you dress. This SO will also provide tips and advice.

Level 4-Participating: This is the SO who acknowledges that you are a CDer, doesn't mind when you dress, will help with make-up, goes clothes shopping with you, enjoys going out with you when you are en femme, really wants to help make you happy by letting you be yourself.

Well, that's my take. I sure there will be some who disagree at one level or another, but this is how I see it after reading the multitude of experiences with SOs.

[Foxglove]

I have to say that I'm not entirely sure what the point is. I think you're saying that just because someone's SO accepts his crossdressing, it doesn't necessarily mean that she wants to have anything to do with it. She doesn't necessarily want to participate. Well, yeah.

I think you're suggesting that if a CDer says, "My wife accepts my dressing", he means he's got the green light to do whatever he wants. I don't know that I've ever seen one of our members say that. People specify what the wife is into and what she's not. Maybe she allows him to underdress all the time. Maybe she allows him to dress completely so long as she doesn't have to see it. Maybe she allows him to dress around her, but not in front of the children or guests, etc., etc. That is, wives can have all sorts of different boundaries, and our members are generally aware of that.

On occasion, a member will start a thread saying basically, "I came out to my wife and she accepts my dressing." The most common advice that person receives is, Take it slow. Don't push her too fast. Find out what she's willing to accept and what she's not. People are well aware that "acceptance" can mean different things.

Katie, I can also say this: as someone who's studied various languages for over 40 years, I can tell you that a dictionary never has the last word in an argument over what a given word can mean. Words have all sorts of nuances that dictionaries cannot clearly spell out. People have a feel for words, and what they feel is often not contained in a dictionary. Ask some French people, e.g., to explain to you what they find in a given word or phrase, and they'll write whole essays for you teasing out the fine points of the word in question.

When I look in my dictionary, I find it equating to a certain extent the words "accept", "tolerate" and "approve". But these words can suggest different things to me.

E.g., if a woman tolerates her husband's CDing, that suggests to me that she doesn't like it, but she agrees to let him to do it (with perhaps certain conditions attached). If she accepts his CDing, that sounds a bit more favorable to me. It sounds like she's more comfortable with the idea than if she were merely tolerating it. If she approves of it, that suggests to me that she thinks it's a good idea and that possibly the conditions she imposes might be less restrictive than in the other two cases.

That's the way I see these three words. But as I've said, when you're trying to decide exactly what a word means, there's lots of room for disagreement. So it's quite possible that other people won't see these three words the same way I do. I'm simply trying to make the point that you can't expect a dictionary to settle an argument like this.

If you're saying that people need to be careful about what they mean by "acceptance", I think they always have been. I can say that I want "acceptance" from society of my TGism. Someone might well ask exactly what I mean by that. Then I'd have to clarify it for them, after having perhaps clarified it in my own mind.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[I see that Renee W got her post in just ahead of mine, and I agree completely with what she's saying. She's showing the different levels of an SO's attitude towards CDing, is attaching a different word to each level, and is explaining what she means by each word. I think that's a very good approach to the problem.]

[Beverley Sims]

I like word play and I think I will just tippy toe around this one and start another thread of my own.:)

[Laura912]

I am going to tolerate your acceptance and approve of it. :)

[JessHaust]

If she approves of it, that suggests to me that she thinks it's a good idea and that possibly the conditions she imposes might be less restrictive than in the other two cases.

Please read definition
ac·cept·ance
   [ak-sep-tuhns] Show IPA

noun
1.
the act of taking or receiving something offered.

2.
favorable reception; approval; favor.

3.
the act of assenting or believing: acceptance of a theory.

4.
the fact or state of being accepted or acceptable.

Approval is part of acceptance.

[Aloha Jayne]

From what I have read posted by many of the members here, we can almost classify our SOs into 4 categories when it comes to dealing with our CDing:

Level 1-Tolerance: When an SO acknowledges the fact that you CD, but wants it to remain on a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". You can do it in private, but are not encouraged to even talk about it to her.

Level 2-Acceptance: When the SO acknowledges the fact that you CD, doesn't mind talking about it or maybe even shops or buys items for you, but insists that you do in private when she is not around.

Level 3-Supportive: For those cases where the SO acknowledges that you CD and she doesn't mind when you dress. This SO will also provide tips and advice.

Level 4-Participating: This is the SO who acknowledges that you are a CDer, doesn't mind when you dress, will help with make-up, goes clothes shopping with you, enjoys going out with you when you are en femme, really wants to help make you happy by letting you be yourself.

Well, that's my take. I sure there will be some who disagree at one level or another, but this is how I see it after reading the multitude of experiences with SOs.

You forgot Level 0 - Doesn't tolerate, doesn't accept, doesn't support and doesn't participate.

[Alice Torn]

Hey Karren! Maybe if you tried the forbidden fruit of wearing jeans in front of her, she might jump to 100%. Just neeedlin ya! LOL.

[Foxglove]

Reply to Post #15:

I did read the definition, Jess, and as I said in my own post, my dictionary was equating to a certain extent the words "tolerate", "accept" and "approve". I myself see a difference between "accept" and "approve", which is why I raise a question about the definition. In certain circumstances, the words might be more or less the same thing. In other circumstances, perhaps not. That's why I say that a dictionary is not the final arbiter in questions like this. A word can mean different things in different contexts.

For a CDer, "acceptance" and "approval" might mean different things, and it would be important to know exactly what the wife has in mind. "Approval is part of acceptance"? It depends on what you mean. I can well imagine someone saying, "I don't really approve of that, but I can accept it."

[Karren H]

Hey Karren! Maybe if you tried the forbidden fruit of wearing jeans in front of her, she might jump to 100%. Just neeedlin ya! LOL.

A few years ago she came up behind me and said "are those women's jeans??". They weren't but she was upset they were..... "Forbidden" is still not tolerated... Let alone accepted Lol.

[JessHaust]

Annabelle,

Fair enough! I can see where you would make the distinction. I just thought you missed the 'approve' in the definition.

My position is from the rare one of having a wife who accepts me, meaning approves. I know she is the exception to the rule, but maybe that's why I married her. She has known about and accepted Jess since we started dating 32 years ago. So for me Accept has always meant approve.

Side note, we actually started dating after attending an on-campus showing of Rocky Horror Picture show at college, maybe that was my first clue!

[Wonderwho]

Laura, that is the most said in the least words, thanks.
Wonderwho

[Foxglove]

Annabelle,

Fair enough! I can see where you would make the distinction. I just thought you missed the 'approve' in the definition.

My position is from the rare one of having a wife who accepts me, meaning approves.

OK, Jess. It has occurred to me that maybe I owe Katie an apology. I thought what she was saying in her OP was obvious. But maybe it was worth discussing after all, so that we're all thinking about what we mean by "acceptance", whether it's the wife's or society's or whoever's.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Aloha Jayne]

Side note, we actually started dating after attending an on-campus showing of Rocky Horror Picture show at college, maybe that was my first clue!

Saw RHPS 13 times and my SO did know that about me before we got married. So.......did Janet accept Brad's behavior with Rocky?

[kimdl93]

It would be an erroneous to assume that the word acceptance means willing or even grudgiing participation. To me, acceptance is synonymous with resignation to a reality. Like the final stage of Kubler-Ross's stages of death and dying.

[Miriam-J]

Thanks for bringing this up Kate. It's been on mind a lot in recent weeks as I've been part of these discussions, and also in my discussions with members of our company's GLBT group. I think Renee's taxonomy is excellent:


Level 1-Tolerance: When an SO acknowledges the fact that you CD, but wants it to remain on a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". You can do it in private, but are not encouraged to even talk about it to her.
Level 2-Acceptance: When the SO acknowledges the fact that you CD, doesn't mind talking about it or maybe even shops or buys items for you, but insists that you do in private when she is not around.
Level 3-Supportive: For those cases where the SO acknowledges that you CD and she doesn't mind when you dress. This SO will also provide tips and advice.
Level 4-Participating: This is the SO who acknowledges that you are a CDer, doesn't mind when you dress, will help with make-up, goes clothes shopping with you, enjoys going out with you when you are en femme, really wants to help make you happy by letting you be yourself.

Of course, Jayne's addition of Level 0 helps. I might add a Level 5-Embracing: This is the SO who makes your crossdressing an integrated part of your lives together.

By the way, I've used a very similar taxonomy to describe the approach to any cultural boundary. This has been useful during my travels, and as I've supported colleagues during their travels. I'm sure the psych/sociological community has more elaborate vocabulary, but this works pretty well. Might pass this along to my GLBT friends.

Miriam

[Badtranny]

So.......did Janet accept Brad's behavior with Rocky?

with Rocky? I thought he only got frisky with Frankenfurter.

[Crissy Kay]

Maybe the word should be Freedom instead. I belive our cding to be a true act of it.