The truth is, not many can handle the truth!

[Inna]

Once again I am here in "DA Crossdressing" section, taking up valuable space for my jabber blabber :) but for some reason I can't let go :doh:

I keep on reading posts regarding crossdresser-wife relationship and happily see the GG's engagement in the discussion, and that's rare!
I see a divide when it comes to the subject at hand. On one hand women ask for total disclosure and honesty on the other acceptance seems conditional in the respect to their husband/CD SO.

So it seems a double edge sword, where no matter how truthful and open the insight into a perspective of CD's inner thoughts, GG's reaction will be based on face value, and not always entirely real.

Such perspective in the eyes of a man leads to being guarded and total disclosure seems rather dreaded instead of having a positive spin on the situation.

GGs then are within their own right expecting their MAN to be a MAN not a man with added benefits (matter of perspective). I will put my reputation on line and state that for most of GGs their quest to know of their SOs CDing is simply a quest to somehow be able to see it through til its no more.
Some exceptional girls are honestly fine with CDing and support their husbands but that in my eyes is quite a rare instance.

Hence my title, because truth is a burden, a most wonderful burden, but burden nevertheless!

[Miriam-J]

Perhaps you're right about it being very rare. I haven't seen any reliable surveys - just the anecdotal evidence on this site. If you are right, then it's one more reason to appreciate my precious jewel of a wife.

I really think it comes down to a person being open in acceptance of a wide array of cultural variations. Many of us on this site who beg for such acceptance don't grant it other subgroups. It's easier to call something wrong without thought, but so much more enriching to invest the thought needed to see the goodness in the variants around us.

Miriam

[Sandra]

I must be one of those exceptional GGs then :D


I will put my reputation on line and state that for most of GGs their quest to know of their SOs CDing is simply a quest to somehow be able to see it through til its no more.

Not quite sure what you mean here, it's been a long day. Do you mean that they want to see if the cding will stop and be no more?

[AllieSF]

Sandra, I think that is what Inna is saying. I have to agree somewhat with what you say Inna. I really cannot understand the "Don't Ask - Don't Tell" mentality of some of the SO's who by whatever means have learned of their spouse's CDing activities. If they want their relationship to last as a relationship, and not as a source of security for them and their children and their family appearance to the outside world, then I would think that their own common sense and hopefully maturity would influence them to seek better knowledge and dialog with their spouse to understand what it all means and where it might lead. It strikes me as a "Put the head in the sand" approach which is fooling no one but the person with their head in the sand. Out of sight and out of mind.

Now, I also believe that maybe timing or circumstance is another issue. For example, a wife who wants more information and dialog may have a CDing spouse who won't talk about it. Or, maybe the SO who wants total honesty and openness from their CDing spouse does not know what they are seeking and only later realize that they cannot handle the information, "the Truth". That is not necessarily their fault. However, once there, if they remain in that shocked, non-trusting and no further discussion attitude too long, they should seek counsel to help them better understand not just what happened, but where does she and her spouse and their total relationship go from there. History is history and cannot be erased. The future is open to all kinds of things and possibilities for both parties, if both parties are willing to work for it.

[STACY B]

I agree with Aiiie on it all ,, But what kills me in the whole thing of the coming out latter thing an all the different things people say ,, You should have said this an that before you got married an if you wanted to do that you should have never had kidds ? Well what about EVERY OTHER thing about a person ,, Oh you should have told me you were a B":::H an you should have told me your teeth were going to fall out an you were going to go bald ? You should have told me you were going to get FAT ,, An not want to have sex everyday like we did when we first met , An not wear all those FANCY CLOTHES like you did before we got married .What the hell is the difference of dressin up an lookin like a lady an changing your looks an spending a bunch of time getting the look right an spending time with your SO an laughing an having fun with it ?? Or what if you were a BODY BUILDER an spent all your time in the GYM an worked out day in an day out an changed your looks an took all kinds of supplaments to get bigger an bigger an not look like your self ?? Its still changing ,,,How come you didnt tell me you were going to be a MUSCLE MAN if you were going to stay an work out all the time you should have never got married. Or if you were going to live for your job an work all the time you should have never got married ,, If you dont get off the couch an go get a job im going to leave ,, If you knew you was not going to work you should have never got married an had kidds .. WHERE DOES IT END ? We are just people growing an learning everyday we are not WIZARDS or FORTUNE tellers ! Hell if we were ,,,, WE ,,, WOULD ,,, HAVE ,,,, NEVER GOT MARRIED !!!

[Joanne f]

You may be right in some of it especially that the truth can become a burden that is why i say to my wife " if you do not want the answer don`t ask the question , the thing is that there are two people involved with two different reasons for asking or telling , the wife wants to know what she it is or has to try and deal with and how that is going to affect the relationship in the future let alone not knowing what has been happening in the past with someone she thought she knew, and then you have the husband who is worried to tell all in case it ends the marriage or wants to tell so that they can dress more openly and more often so somewhere in the middle you have to find a working relationship which has to bring the past present and future all together and the wife almost has to forget about the past or at least forgive the past talk and find out about the present while thinking about the future, so yes it can be a big burden for them but luckily some manage to do it and even turn that burden into a good and happy relationship providing that they both work together.

[Laura912]

In my previous career, the "conventional wisdom" or "anecdotal experience" was a detriment to people really getting the correct information. So to quote a PhD friend, "Show me the data." Until then, we are discussing individual opinions and not universal facts. One exception or alternative fact has already been stated by Sandra.

[kimdl93]

I think that in many cases, the GG's response to CDrs may reflect a) fears are either in based in personally held prejudicse, b) personal preferences or c) are based reflective of perceived social stigma. I can't change someone's mind. If a person (male or female) thinks CDrs are immoral, must be gay (not that there's anything wrong with that) or inevitably want to become women, it may be impossible to disabuse a person of those notions, no matter how factually incorrect they may be. If a GG simply doesn't want a male with "benefits" that's certainly well within their perogative. I like redheads with brown eyes. And some GGs understandably may fear the prejudice of others...the "what would people think?" factor.

Unfortunately, in relationships, its often "come as you are" proposition. People seldom change their beliefs in the face of strong evidence to the contrary. All the more reason to come out before one gets into an LTR.

[sterling12]

A Realist would never argue your point with you. I belong to various Social Groups around our area in Florida, and even in the BEST Relationships where transgender is involved, it involves conflict. Sometimes less, sometimes more. Sometimes constant, sometimes sporadic. But it always seems to happen!

Whether one spouse is a Transman or Transwoman, The Burden for The other spouse is always there. Keeping secrets, trust factors, competition with "The Other Woman/Man," and it often seems that even when A Spouse is accepting, the great majority of TransFolk must "push the envelope," and create eventual dissension. Of Course, virtually all marriages/relationships involve some conflict, and feature many episodes of compromise and redefinition. It just seems to happen a lot more for Transpeople. Societal Expectations and Peer Pressure seem to mount...and, "Bang" another Relationship goes belly-up!

Few people with any kind of brains expect any thing less than A Spouse's Expectation that "Her Man should be a Man." That problem always seems to eventually come front and center. But, we have discussed it endlessly, and the best answer that we have come up with is: "Be The Kind of Man she expects, at least some of the time, and perhaps she will accept your Femme-Self." Since no spouse is perfect, is that a reasonable compromise?

If it's not, then all of us need to spend a lot more time in frank discussion to try and come up with some achievable solution that people can live with. Experience says, "He ain't gonna quit/ She's not going to return to a feminine persona." So, there needs to be compromise from everyone involved.....if, we want The Relationship to continue. Understood, that most of these relationships don't endure, but some people want to try.

Your turn, make some suggestions. In Business, we would say that you have identified The Problem. Now, tell us how to fix it!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Marleena]

I think it can be scary for some SO's. A CD is usually trying to do everything in their power to be a convincing female.

IF an SO can be comfortable with this they will see that they haven't really lost their man. The CD undresses and goes back to male mode (no harm done). They will have a more loving, happy partner to share girlie times/talks with and shopping. The SO's that "get it" can have fun with it too.

[kellycan27]

Funny... these so called compromises always seem to work in favor of the cross dresser. The cder gets to CD, and the the SO gets to compromises her values. What ever happened to Freedom of choice? Why does it always seem like the SO is the one who needs to either be educated, or the one who is remiss because she can't wrap her head around having a spouse who CD's? Spending "girly time" and "shopping" together..............Hahahhahahahahahahhaa! spoken like a true cder.

[Lorileah]

What I think we see here are the ends of the spectrum. You hear about the all accepting, everything is fine and dandy and she will participate ( been there) and the other end of no way no how. My opinion is there are far more in the middle who either just go with it or it really is a minor issue. Far too many here believe they are fooling the SO when in fact the SO knows and they are living with the way it is.

[Helen Grandeis]

My wife and I were early for our ballroom dance private lesson. She brought up the elephant in our lives. I questioned what her objective was and she so much as admitted Inna's premise. Her sole goal in talking was to assess my progress in HER goal of eliminating every thought of cross dressing from every corner of my brain.

I was so eager to talk but did not take the bait. Her secondary goal was to catch me in some type of contradiction. That was more than 6 months ago. No talk since. Except for no significant CD activity. Life has been pleasant and companionable

[STACY B]

Funny... these so called compromises always seem to work in favor of the cross dresser. The cder gets to CD, and the the SO gets to compromises her values. What ever happened to Freedom of choice? Why does it always seem like the SO is the one who needs to either be educated, or the one who is remiss because she can't wrap her head around having a spouse who CD's? Spending "girly time" and "shopping" together..............Hahahhahahahahahahhaa! spoken like a true cder.

Hey they love to shop an have girly time ,, So why cant we ,, Ohhhhhhh we can do it a different way though ,,, But they dont like that eather soooooooo what now??? Just sit on the couch ?? An be a good little BOY ? OK you just sit yo azz down wit me ,,, An we will all sit an shut up ,,, See how long that lasts ,, Why does she need to be educated >> Shes the one who has the problem ,, Not us we know what we want ! Read my first post ,, It dont matter what ya do its WRONG ! Drink too much,,,,Fart to much,,, Eat to much,, Sleep to much,,, Dont want to go no where ,, Want to go to many places,, Dont want to go where I want ,, You want to go where i want to much,, Dont want to dress up nice ,, Now u want to dress up to nice,, BLA,,,, BLA,,, BLA,,, TO MUCH TALKING NOT ENOUGH DRESSIN

[Marleena]

Funny... these so called compromises always seem to work in favor of the cross dresser. The cder gets to CD, and the the SO gets to compromises her values. What ever happened to Freedom of choice? Why does it always seem like the SO is the one who needs to either be educated, or the one who is remiss because she can't wrap her head around having a spouse who CD's? Spending "girly time" and "shopping" together..............Hahahhahahahahahahhaa! spoken like a true cder.

Thanks so much for your nothing. Typical.

You know nothing of my relationship with my wife.

[Katesback]

Educated. LOL

Thats exactly why I would never date a CD. I am educated. I know what all to often they are.

Back to the joke. Whats the difference between a cd and ts? One is married and the other is not. LOL

I also love the compromse. Ya know something I see CDing akin to an addiction. Only difference is there is no cure.... Well for some there is and that is to transition and get SRS. Compromise you say. The wives are the ones to compromise. They married a man and got something else (assuming you didnt tell them for the early dating). They didnt ask for a man that wants to dress as a woman. They didnt ask for the compromise. Of course if they dont compromise it results in the CD either being miserable or doing it behind the wives back. Of course for those of you that say Katie your using a small percentage I will refer to your very own countless posts in this VERY forum.


Katie

[Marleena]

I can see this thread getting locked too. Ah well.:)

[suchacutie]

Is it that we are in a transition period? Consider:

What if we fostered a generation that didn't see any bid deal about blurring gender boundries. If that were the case, then those who feel the tug of femininity at an early age would not feel the angst that the generations posting her very often have felt. Then there wouldn't be the issues of self-acceptance, then there wouldn't be the issues of trying to hide this non-acceptable thing from potential spouses, then there wouldn't be the issues that inevitably arrise when the feminine sides of us become undeniable, and then we wouldn't have to hope and pray we married a wonderful woman who has the fortitude to see it all through.

Let's face it: if telling a potential partner that we have a feminine side would be looked upon as not big deal, or even as a plus, all of these issues would be miniscule at most!

So, in the current climate we "pays our money and takes our chances". That is, we attempt to open our hearts to potential mates and take our hits then getting rejected until that rare beautiful spouse happens along, or we get married and hope for the best. It looks like until we succeed in educating the population and breaking down the barriers against being transgendered (anywhere along the spectrum), it's going to be difficult. And, a big part of the difficulty is the incredibly difficult communication issues that are built into have a CDer who has lived with the situation for a few decades suddenly trying to have a conversation with a spouse who knows next to nothing about transgenderism (or what she knows is all negative), has known there was an issue for 10 minutes, and who suddenly realizes that her man has shut her out from a part of his life, and it's a part she just might not like for all the reasons we've seen printed here over and over.

This is hard! So few of us were lucky about our spouses and our situations. Even fewer of us had the immense forsight to plan it out well. Being transgendered is not for wimps!

Tina

[kellycan27]

Thanks so much for your nothing. Typical.

You know nothing of my relationship with my wife.

I don't where that came from.. did I single you out as someone who blames their SO? If your wife is fine and accepting.. Awesome for you! If your wife likes shopping and spending "girly" time with you...kudos. From the number of " my SO doesn't accept my cd'ing" threads that I have seen on this board and from talking to cder's. Spending "girly" time wouldn't exactly be a "perk" for most GG's . For the cd'er yeah, for the SO... NOT. If one's SO can and will compromise.... priceless, but just every once in a while it would be nice to see see someone say.. Yeah "I get it" ... This is something that my SO just can't accept, instead of she needs educating, or she needs counseling, or she's the one with the problem. I have been a member here for quite a while, and while it is a great support site, it is for the most part one sided. Even the GG's who post for the most part either have a dog in the fight, or they are trying to find answers. People sit around here and pat each other on the back and commiserate, and they can makes themselves feel better by agreeing with each other and blame everything under the sun for their misfortune, but when someone offers a different prospective they get responses like yours..... "thanks for nothing". People can deny it all they want and I hope it helps them when they get kicked to the curb because.. they "don't get it".

[Kate Simmons]

In a lot of instances it's simply a case of prospective survival or not of the relationship.

[Stephenie S]

Kelly's answer has the ring of truth to it.

Honestly now, women can be amazingly accepting. What we DON'T want is to lose our man. The very first thought when a gal learns that her man is a crossdresser is OMG, is he gay? Sorry, that's just the truth.

Now, if you are holding up your end in the bedroom, if you are the MAN in her life, if there can be no doubt in other people's minds about your sexual orientation, then you can probably relax. Give us some time and we'll get used to it. If your wife is going to sleep with a smile on her face often enough, then she will probably accept your strange dressing habits.

But introduce even the slightest doubt as to your sexual orientation into her mind and she is gonna run with it. And you will not like where she runs to. Divorce court is no fun.

Stephie

[STACY B]

If you were GAY she would know . But a real CD can dress like a WOMAN & ride like a MAN . When I get done wit cha yull pull those sheets out ya but !!! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW !!!!

[docrobbysherry]

Come ON, Inna! "The whole truth and nothing but the truth!?" That's NOT what u present here!

"DA Crossdressing"? So, what is THAT!? "District Attorney?" "Don't Ask?" "Darn A----?" Guessing what u mean is not, "THE TRUTH"!

[Marleena]

I don't where that came from.. did I single you out as someone who blames their SO? If your wife is fine and accepting.. Awesome for you! If your wife likes shopping and spending "girly" time with you...kudos. From the number of " my SO doesn't accept my cd'ing" threads that I have seen on this board and from talking to cder's. Spending "girly" time wouldn't exactly be a "perk" for most GG's . For the cd'er yeah, for the SO... NOT. If one's SO can and will compromise.... priceless, but just every once in a while it would be nice to see see someone say.. Yeah "I get it" ... This is something that my SO just can't accept, instead of she needs educating, or she needs counseling, or she's the one with the problem. I have been a member here for quite a while, and while it is a great support site, it is for the most part one sided. Even the GG's who post for the most part either have a dog in the fight, or they are trying to find answers. People sit around here and pat each other on the back and commiserate, and they can makes themselves feel better by agreeing with each other and blame everything under the sun for their misfortune, but when someone offers a different prospective they get responses like yours..... "thanks for nothing". People can deny it all they want and I hope it helps them when they get kicked to the curb because.. they "don't get it".

You posted directly after me Kelly so I assumed you were laughing at my "girlie" comments. Anyways no big deal anybody can laugh about the wife putting up with us. My wife is okay with my being TG and we get along fine. Reine & Sandra are doing well too. They go out with their CD SO's and support them AFAIK. So there are some good relationships here. Marriage is a compromise too. Sometimes life is.

I know the wives never asked to be with a TG person anymore than the TG or TS person asked to be the way they are.:)

[Inna]

Come ON, Inna! "The whole truth and nothing but the truth!?" That's NOT what u present here!

"DA Crossdressing"? So, what is THAT!? "District Attorney?" "Don't Ask?" "Darn A----?" Guessing what u mean is not, "THE TRUTH"!

................................qué?

[Katesback]

Something that surprised me is that since I have been posting here in just the last couple weeks I have been getting a LOT of private messenged from WIVES. I really would love to post them but that would overide the idea of private messenges.

What I will say is they keep thanking me for telling the truth. They express huge amounts of frustration for all the crap they put up with. They say they should have gotten a divorce way sooner than they did. They tell me that its actually nice to see someone keeping it real. They even appologize to me for the retorts I have gotten, and go on to say they get them as well if they say what they really think.

I did not do a poll but it sounds like most women dont want anything to do with trans anything. They appear to have married a man and thats all they want.

I am just sumarzing what they tell me. Of course for those of you that say Katie your exadurating...... well no I acually am not. I have never exadurated on this forum. Thats done by the majority here and I really have no reason to exadurate about anything.

Katie

[sandra-leigh]

GGs then are within their own right expecting their MAN to be a MAN not a man with added benefits (matter of perspective).

Which clause of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights is it that you are citing? No? Perhaps it was a clause I missed in the US Constitution? No? Somewhere in the Constitution of Florida, maybe??

:BS:

I went through a period of at least 5 years of being simmering-boil angry with my wife over some points in which my expectations were not being met. Was I being "reasonable" to be upset about those points? A number of members have reported getting divorced over less, so I was at least being pretty typical. I would turn from calm to furious on half a word based on the tone, had a scowl most of the time, sometimes got out of the car and walked home because of my upset. Went and slept in the garage a time or three because I couldn't stand to be in the same house. Most of the unhappy wives we hear about here had nothing on me.

And then one day it occurred to me: my wife is a free person, and she doesn't owe me any of the things I was so upset about. To give or withhold, or to talk one way or another: those were choices that were up to her completely, not anything that she owed, nothing I had any business arguing about or getting angry about.

Once I realized that, I was in some ways saddened, by the knowledge that those expectations of mine were not going to be met, but I was also tremendously freed, finally able to let go of my years of anger. I did not have any rights over her behavior, just quiet hope.

Just the same way, a GG is not "within her right" to expect her partner to "be a MAN". She can hope, she can discuss, but her partner is a free-willed person that no-one has a right to control.

The GG partner has the same right that I did: namely to stay and live with the situation (if disappointedly) -- or to get out.

This I can tell you: I am much better off for having shed my anger about my internal expectations. And I wish my wife were home tonight.

[Marleena]

Wow... what I'm learning from this thread is not many women or men want TS CD TG partners. Unless that's just an exaggeration.:)

Not good news at all.

[Miriam-J]

Perhaps there's another perspective on this. If it's perfectly natural for a female to wear clothes like those traditionally worn by men, then why should those same individuals be free to impose an artificial constraint on their men that they can't wear clothes like those traditionally worn by women. Why this asymmetry? Who's actually being unfair here?

Do we find it's OK to impose this constraint just because it's their expectation? There are cultures where the men 'expect' their females to wear burkhas? A hundred years ago the females in our own country were not allowed to wear pants. Going a bit broader, 60 years in this country many fought and many others defended the expectation that blacks could not go to the same schools (among other things).

Cultural expectations may be pure bigotry in another's eyes. Why do we feel we should defend this view?

Miriam

[Katesback]

Thank you for opening the door.

First of all it is not the clothes. Or I should say the clothes are just a small portion of what is the problem.

See along with the clothes comes the new personality, the new sex drives, the new adventures with the new personality and new sex drives. I cannot tell you the number of CDs that I have met that have sex behind the wifes back. Since I have never been a cheater I would always confront them about the behavior. Do you know what the typical response is?

The typical responses is that ____ (the female name goes there) is a different person that the boy and she has her desires. Some even go as far as saying they arent cheating because it is the different personality than the man.

In addition to the above mentioned things along with the clothes comes the ever increasing desire to wear the clothes. Ohhh and of course dont forget the makeup. leg shaving, fake boobs (dont think those are clothes), and god knows what else that it takes to try to make a man look like a woman.

Once again dont forget that once the clothes go on the new personality takes over....... well except when the wife is around and that is of course the time when you have to PROOVE your a man wearing high heels and pantyhose. Knock your socks off babe.

Finally your totally wrong in all respects. Every trans woman in the process of transition walks out into the big bad world with womens clothes on and looks a lot like a man for a period of time. We survived. We did so because we had inner strength. On the other side there is the CDs that hide in the closet. post pictures of thier legs in the internet and then bitch because the world does not accept them when they themselves dont accept their behavior.


Katie





Perhaps there's another perspective on this. If it's perfectly natural for a female to wear clothes like those traditionally worn by men, then why should those same individuals be free to impose an artificial constraint on their men that they can't wear clothes like those traditionally worn by women. Why this asymmetry? Who's actually being unfair here?

Do we find it's OK to impose this constraint just because it's their expectation? There are cultures where the men 'expect' their females to wear burkhas? A hundred years ago the females in our own country were not allowed to wear pants. Going a bit broader, 60 years in this country many fought and many others defended the expectation that blacks could not go to the same schools (among other things).

Cultural expectations may be pure bigotry in another's eyes. Why do we feel we should defend this view?

Miriam

[Michelia]

Am I glad I do not have to think about these issues. This thread is exactly why my SO says she loves me and supports me and encourages me and loves me as I am and as girly as I want to be...but I am not to insist she ever come read this stuff or join me in writing and sharing opinions here. Whew! Maybe she has been right all along....

[Aprilrain]

I don't see CDing as a big deal but thats probably because my BF told me the first time we chatted. I'm sure if I found out 20 years and 3 kids later I'd feel differently. I don't feel the need to be educated, I have told my BF what I am and am not comfortable with, matter of fact no judgment. He suffers from the same thing I suffered from pre transition, SHAME! He's the one who has a problem with his CDing. I told him I'm not comfortable going out with him dressed other than that If he wants to go out he has CD friends he could do that with. If he wanted to dress at home I wouldn't care. I have told him that if he wants to wear nighties to bed I'm fine with it. He doesn't want to do any of that. Some times he asks me what level of feminization I'd be comfortable with, he says he wants boobs. OK how do you plan on getting boobs? cause hormones are going to do a lot more than give you boobs and you might not even GET boobs! I told him I'd have a problem with him being impotent. I want to have sex with a man and if he can't do that just to grow A cups on his 220# frame, I'd hit the bricks. Again no judgment no anger, I accept that we are all free agents, even married couples, and people have to do what makes them happy. If he wanted to transition I'd be his er her friend but I'm not really all that interested in woman. He tells me our relationship is more important than dressing or body modification and I appreciate that but I do think there is shame at work there too and not just commitment.

[docrobbysherry]

Badabing! Nice one, Kate! Cuts rite thru all the retoric! There's SO MUCH MORE THAN CLOTHES going on for many CD/TGs!

[sandra-leigh]

See along with the clothes comes the new personality, the new sex drives, the new adventures with the new personality and new sex drives.

Maybe the sex-drive trade-up offer wasn't valid in Canada, cuz I sure didn't get one!

Here is what did happen to me:

When I was 20, one of my sister's friends said I was cute. That was the only compliment I ever got that implied that I was somehow attractive or desirable-looking. Including through three relationships. I worked my butt off for 20 years doing very high quality work with thousands of people; more and more people expected me to do their work for them, but very few of them cared anything about me as a person. I was, I felt, being "used" for my brains, and I was expected to be that nice little dweeb for whom the concept of sexuality just didn't apply.

When I started cross-dressing and got some nice clothes and accessories and makeup together, there were a some times when I went out deliberately trying to look attractive. Not short-short skirts or the like, but well put-together. So people would look at me and appreciate my appearance. A personal defiance of a lifetime of repression, a public statement that I am a human who has a sexual side too.

Was this a "new sex drive"? No!! This was standing up for myself, refusing to accept the decades long chains that all I was good for was self-sacrifice, and a grasping of the fact that I have social and personal needs and that I have a right to be self-assertive.

Was any actual sex involved? Not one bit. Did I flirt with anyone or lead them on? No.

I did get propositioned once by a gay male who could tell I was male, but I politely refused and then bored him with tales of how difficult it was to find clothing in my size. (My decades working on computer problems didn't exactly prepare me for small-talk.) Oh, I nearly forgot: another time I was propositioned by a rude guy who was so drunk that he did not know or care what I was; he got a less-polite No.

New sex drive? I haven't even cuddled with anyone other than my wife since I started cross-dressing.

New adventures? Well, I've gone grocery-shopping while wearing a dress -- does that count as an adventure? I watched some drag shows, and was mostly bored. I still have no clue how to dance, never learned to "talk" female, fashion magazines still bore me immensely, I never watch Oprah. I did discover that I do an acceptable job at selling raffle tickets, and at taking the dirty dishes back to the kitchen... perhaps those are the adventures you are talking about.

[TGMarla]

I also love the compromse. Ya know something I see CDing akin to an addiction. Only difference is there is no cure.... Well for some there is and that is to transition and get SRS. Compromise you say. The wives are the ones to compromise. They married a man and got something else (assuming you didnt tell them for the early dating). They didnt ask for a man that wants to dress as a woman. They didnt ask for the compromise. Of course if they dont compromise it results in the CD either being miserable or doing it behind the wives back.

I pretty much agree. And I also agree with Kelly. These boards encompass only a very small proportion of the CD world. How many more merely troll or have never found this place or participated in the discussion. I think the vast majority of wives/girlfriends/whatever (and I do mean vast) don't want anything to do with their men crossdressing. Take my own wife for instance. She is what I would call a very normal average regular woman. She was raised as a girl to be a girl, went through adolescence as a female, found that she had a natural attraction to men, and not to women, and grew into a typical heterosexual woman. She married (twice) and had the expectation when doing so of enjoying a heterosexual relationship with her husband for the rest of her life.

She learned eventually that her husband crossdresses. And she didn't like it one little bit. After all, she married a man, and wanted a man in her life and not some female emulator. She doesn't need educating, she doesn't need counselling, and she doesn't need to learn acceptance. She is a very accepting person. She remained married to me, but she really doesn't want one thing to do with the whole crossdressing thing. She wants her man to be just that: her MAN. And I don't blame her one bit. I want her to be my woman, and I'd not like it much if she was running around all the time trying her best to look like a man. I get it. And so I do my very best to keep my life with her apart from my crossdressing activities. When she's around, I am her husband. When she is not, I take the liberty to exercise my desires to crossdress, provided more important obligations are already met.

You see, any compromise other than the one I've made with her, where she is simply not at all involved in this, is a compromise that is inevitably weighted in my favor. And to me, that will not do. To me, that would seem selfish. I believe a marriage, in order to work, must have both parties believing that they should give up what is important to themselves for the benefit of the other. My compromise here is just that way. I don't bother engaging in crossdressing activities that infringe and cross over into her territory. I still get to enjoy my feminine time, but it does not enter into her life one bit if I can help it. And before anyone says, "Yeah, but then shouldn't she give up her objections in order to make YOU happy?", I'm here to tell you that she already gives up enough to make us both happy. It's not her fault I crossdress, so that places the onus upon me. It's a compromise I'm comfortable with, and apparently, so is she. And our marriage has lasted 18 years so far, and doesn't seem to be in any danger of ending any time soon.

You'll notice (if you bother) that I don't sit on these boards and complain that my wife just doesn't understand. Heck, I don't even understand it completely, so why should I expect her to? Do I wish she was an accepting wife? Sure I do. But do I let that bother me, or do I make it a lynch-pin of whether or not we remain a couple. No, I do not. My advice to all those here who are dealing with unaccepting SOs, deal with it. The onus is on you, not them. You cannot force acceptance from anyone. They either will, or won't, or may possibly grow into it. But in the mean time, it's up to you to deal with it, not your wives or girlfriends.

[Sandra]

My advice to all those here who are dealing with unaccepting SOs, deal with it. The onus is on you, not them. You cannot force acceptance from anyone. They either will, or won't, or may possibly grow into it. But in the mean time, it's up to you to deal with it, not your wives or girlfriends.

Thank you Marla for this comment.

It appears that a few on here are trying again to put GG/SOs down because they can't accept/support call it what ever you like. You all want it your way and because GG/SO doesn't roll over and play then it's all her fault...and you wonder why not many GGs post in this section. :rolleyes:

Yes I'm one step further along than a lot of GGs here in that my SO is TS but by god I will stick up for all of the GGs here...and when some of you get it into your thick heads that its' not all about you and work with your GG/SO's then things just might be a bit better for both of you.

[Laura912]

In this voting year, I cast one for Sandra and TGMaria.

[Katesback]

I am curious. You said your SO is TS. Is it fair to say that your SO once claimed to be a CD? Second question. What are you going to do if your SO gets SRS. I only ask that question because the married TSs tend to stop before SRS because it is the last straw to keep the marriage going. Of course one is not complete without it but hey some convince themselves that an ORCHY is enough. As a matter of fact a lot of them conjure up half ass medical reasons to justify an orchy. I am just curious because I suspect your a rare woman.

Katie




Thank you Marla for this comment.

It appears that a few on here are trying again to put GG/SOs down because they can't accept/support call it what ever you like. You all want it your way and because GG/SO doesn't roll over and play then it's all her fault...and you wonder why not many GGs post in this section. :rolleyes:

Yes I'm one step further along than a lot of GGs here in that my SO is TS but by god I will stick up for all of the GGs here...and when some of you get it into your thick heads that its' not all about you and work with your GG/SO's then things just might be a bit better for both of you.

[Sandra]

You said your SO is TS. Is it fair to say that your SO once claimed to be a CD?

Yes she did for many years, she was one of the ones in denial. Gradually little things progressed, she dressed 24/7 and lived as a woman, laser for facial hair etc, then she changed her name by deed poll, still she did not say she was TS, then she hit a spell of depression and went to see a counsellor and things started to come out.

I knew before she actually accepted she was TS. I read on here in the TS forum and think hmmm that sounds familiar, but didn't say anything as I didn't want to push her into accepting herself until she was ready.




Second question. What are you going to do if your SO gets SRS.
Katie

Kate it's not "if" Nigella gets srs it is when. Infact we was at the Leeds GIC the other week, with Nigella being on hormones for over a year now we were discussing surgeons and the next step on the road.

As to what am I going to do...do you think I'm gonna going running and screaming to the hills :D We have sat and talked and talked for many hours about this, I am with Nigella all the way, we are doing this together. We are still a couple and have a very,very strong marriage, yes we've had our ups and downs like many couples do. I am with Nigella all the way.

Kate I may be a rare women, but our relationship has been built on trust and honesty. As each step has cropped up we have sat and discussed and been honest with each other, and Nigella has always asked me "are you happy with that" and yes Nigella has now said that coming this far, if I said "nope can't do it any more" then she couldn't go back...is she selfish? yep she is and she has said so herself, but it is what she has to do it is who she is. I don't know what is round the corner no one does, but and I know I keep repeating myself, I am with her all the way.

[Katesback]

Yes you are a rare woman. I can tell you I have known a lot of TSs that have gotten the Orchie so as to save the marriage. Wife will stay married as long as there is a penis between the legs. Of course its a cop out but such is life.

Is it selfish for her to do what she is doing? I got to tell you one thing, it is a matter of perspectice. If you were in WWII and the Nazis did an experiment on you and attached a penis to you I suspect you would endeavor to get rid of it as soon as you could because it did not belong there now did it? Well if your SO is really TS then she is a woman and she dont want that thing that is not supposed to be there and rightfully so.

Conversly from your perspective you have every right to say she is being selfish because you married a man and now ya got something else and especially when a girl is pre op the are always going to be selfish. Its a coping mechanism. Essentially to go through a successful transition one has to be willing to put everything on the line. One has to put the feelings of other people aside and do what they have to do.

You get to see this with the CDs that are in denial and then when they get past the "dont care about what other people think" and the "I am going to do what I have to do to be me" they begin transition and call themselves TS.

Ever notice in the support groups that the trans people under the age of 20 NEVER and I mean NEVER call themselves CD? As a matter of fact they just call themselves trans whatever. I suspect that the word CD is slowing becomming a world that only married trans people use and those that dont get married use the word trans because its more realistic. If ya say your trans it covers everything and you dont have to defend your manhood, your so called desire not to transition, ect ect.

Katie









Yes she did for many years, she was one of the ones in denial. Gradually little things progressed, she dressed 24/7 and lived as a woman, laser for facial hair etc, then she changed her name by deed poll, still she did not say she was TS, then she hit a spell of depression and went to see a counsellor and things started to come out.

I knew before she actually accepted she was TS. I read on here in the TS forum and think hmmm that sounds familiar, but didn't say anything as I didn't want to push her into accepting herself until she was ready.



Kate it's not "if" Nigella gets srs it is when. Infact we was at the Leeds GIC the other week, with Nigella being on hormones for over a year now we were discussing surgeons and the next step on the road.

As to what am I going to do...do you think I'm gonna going running and screaming to the hills :D We have sat and talked and talked for many hours about this, I am with Nigella all the way, we are doing this together. We are still a couple and have a very,very strong marriage, yes we've had our ups and downs like many couples do. I am with Nigella all the way.

Kate I may be a rare women, but our relationship has been built on trust and honesty. As each step has cropped up we have sat and discussed and been honest with each other, and Nigella has always asked me "are you happy with that" and yes Nigella has now said that coming this far, if I said "nope can't do it any more" then she couldn't go back...is she selfish? yep she is and she has said so herself, but it is what she has to do it is who she is. I don't know what is round the corner no one does, but and I know I keep repeating myself, I am with her all the way.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The trick is to NOT look at being a crossdresser or transgendered guy as a BAD thing...

If you brought a woman back to your house and showed her a living room filled with your collection of pokemon sculptures, or bring her home to play with your giant model train village...i'd bet that would push away a number of women too...but i love pokemon, and i love model trains, so i'd think its cute

see what i'm saying...

i think the OP is totally true...the Transgendered husband presents challenges...but thats the line...get over it and find a girl that still loves you and thinks you are great..

[Sophie_C]

Funny... these so called compromises always seem to work in favor of the cross dresser. The cder gets to CD, and the the SO gets to compromises her values. What ever happened to Freedom of choice? Why does it always seem like the SO is the one who needs to either be educated, or the one who is remiss because she can't wrap her head around having a spouse who CD's? Spending "girly time" and "shopping" together..............Hahahhahahahahahahhaa! spoken like a true cder.

I feel like I'm throwing gasoline on a fire with this, but here I go... :eek:

You know, this leads to the crux of it all. The OP has it completely wrong. It's not that wives can't handle the truth. It's that most cross-dressers and trans people can't handle the truth. And, the truth is that their sexual "situation" isn't going to change and isn't going to just vanish one day, making their home the perfect, "normal" family.

The truth is that's why they hide it and aren't open about it from the start. They think they can contain it and that it'll just go away one day or will end up just being a "phase." But, we all know, especially from seeing older people here, that's not how it works. However you are, it's almost always for LIFE.

Wives get it, oh they do. And, it's not what they signed up for. And, they (rightfully so) feel betrayed when they find out the person they thought they were closest with, the one they relied on to be strong, to be their man, 'til death do you part, didn't give them the simple decency to know what they were getting into, so they could decide on it before wasting years and years of their lives.

Don't you get that your true sexual situation could be a complete turn-off for your wife, and she'd have no choice in that, say, any more than you'd have if she gained 100lbs, got rid of her breasts, started seriously pumping iron and looking like Buck Angel? (no insult to FTMs - I'm simply talking the nature of attraction)

Lastly, don't forget the final truth people can't handle: that, since there are so many people in the world, odds are pretty high that their wife wouldn't have been with you, had she known. It's harsh, but it's reality. She could have just walked down the street and been with another person without the baggage, and in the dating game, everyone, and I mean everyone chooses that.

The lengths the women here go to try to make things work shows how kind and understanding they are, well more than they're morally obligated to, especially considering they were the ones betrayed.

It's a tough time, still only being 2012, with little acceptance of gender variance, lifestyles and bisexuality, shoving people into closets, where maybe a bi woman might be great being with a cross-dressing man (or any other combinations), but both of them aren't in the open, so they never come to understand themselves and meet, leaving them both alone and miserable. I feel sympathy for both sides. But, I do believe "handling the truth" is more the problem of the people here, than their wives.

[Sandra]

Well if your SO is really TS then she is a woman and she dont want that thing that is not supposed to be there and rightfully so.

I do hope you are not saying that Nigella isn't really a TS just because she presented as a cder early on.? When she went to Leeds and had to go through a number of sessions with the gender therapist and the clinical nurse who reported back to the therapist, it was concluded that Nigella was a primary transexual, she had suppressed a lot of child hood memories that screamed transexual and these came out at the sessions she had.



You get to see this with the CDs that are in denial and then when they get past the "dont care about what other people think" and the "I am going to do what I have to do to be me" they begin transition and call themselves TS.

With some maybe, but what if the rest are like Nigella and have been a TS since they were born but are in denial, just because they present as a cder doesn't mean that deep, deep down they are TS. It took Nigella years to realise that she is TS and I imagine there is a lot out they just like her.

[Lorileah]

Sophie, you are right on. One cannot handle the truth if one is not presented with the truth. And when truth is kept hidden for a long time it is hard to tell from a lie

[Sandra]

Sophie, you are right on. One cannot handle the truth if one is not presented with the truth. And when truth is kept hidden for a long time it is hard to tell from a lie

Totally agree, and on here we have heard it so many times from GGs "he lied all these years how do I know he's not still lying and what else regarding the cding is he still lying about"

I was lucky in that I was told early on, we got together in the Oct, married the following Aug, and was told the following Jan, so 6 months into the marriage I was told, not years down the line like some, I really do feel for those GGs that this happens to.

[Inna]

I feel like I'm throwing gasoline on a fire with this, but here I go... :eek:

You know, this leads to the crux of it all. The OP has it completely wrong. It's not that wives can't handle the truth. It's that most cross-dressers and trans people can't handle the truth. And, the truth is that their sexual "situation" isn't going to change and isn't going to just vanish one day, making their home the perfect, "normal" family.

Hey, "let go my eggo" I love your post but just to stay correct I didn't say GG's can't handle the truth, what I said was:

"On one hand women ask for total disclosure and honesty on the other acceptance seems conditional in the respect to their husband/CD SO."

"GGs then are within their own right expecting their MAN to be a MAN not a man with added benefits (matter of perspective). I will put my reputation on line and state that for most of GGs their quest to know of their SOs CDing is simply a quest to somehow be able to see it through til its no more.
Some exceptional girls are honestly fine with CDing and support their husbands but that in my eyes is quite a rare instance."

Seams that truth weather from CD/TS or their SOs perspective is painful and treacherous to navigate, some just do not posses the strength to deal with a new perspective, a new life, because the things will never be the same once the curtain falls and the stage is truly revealed, hence my OP title: The truth is, not many can handle the truth!

[Joanne f]

They say that a man and a woman use`s a different half of the brain , well this acceptance thing when triggered by the wife/so can act like a switch being triggered in the CDs head so that it has been accepted as thinking like a female therefore should be treated as one , and i expect some find it difficult to control this sudden flow of data so starts to question " why did you flick that switch " and want control of it , well simply because it needs to be controlled by to the same speed as that of the wife/so so that they can proses this new data at their own speed and not because their brain does not run so fast but because it is alien to them , unfortunately some CDs can not understand this .

[sandra-leigh]

Oh, twiddle-twaddle! Many of you are speaking like the wife is always the innocent and hard-done-by person in the relationship, the one who has to do all the compromising. It ain't necessarily so!

It is frustrating how little I can write in this regard without breaking my promise to myself not to write about the details of my relationship troubles in public (on the grounds that anything I write would be my perception only and my wife isn't here to give her perspective.)

I have adapted and adapted and adapted, and I been disappointed many a time. And that included many times before I even realized I was a cross-dresser.

My realization that I was a cross-dresser was followed immediately by an understanding that I was going to stop being a doormat, that I was going to do this for me. Don't take that as being "selfish": it was self-preservation, finding internal resources to live by and renew myself by, instead of continuing my ultimately self-destructive course of always giving in and always giving of myself to other people without getting anything back. If that is being "selfish" then so too is a rock "selfish" for not voluntarily eroding for the convenience of a stream.

Am I saying that my wife has not had to adjust to my cross-dressing and turning out to be TG? Not at all: I am pointing out that a relationship runs both ways, both people adjusting to each other, and that sometimes the adjustment for being CD or TG is not the biggest adjustment at all.

[Sandra]

I am pointing out that a relationship runs both ways, both people adjusting to each other, and that sometimes the adjustment for being CD or TG is not the biggest adjustment at all.

I agree that it should run both ways but time and time again we hear from GGs, that they are trying to adjust and then hubby/bf throws something else into the equation, or things are agreed on, then a few weeks down the line these have been thrown out of the window, and things are back to square one again and then we get threads, "my SO doesn't accept me". A lot on here seem to think that a SO should be all helpful, accepting, supportive etc as soon as they either find out or are told, well let me tell you it don't work like that, they need time to process what they have been presented with, and it doesn't help having a hubby/bf pushing things trying to make things go quicker.

[sandra-leigh]

A lot on here seem to think that a SO should be all helpful, accepting, supportive etc as soon as they either find out or are told, well let me tell you it don't work like that, they need time to process what they have been presented with, and it doesn't help having a hubby/bf pushing things trying to make things go quicker.

I can certainly agree with that.

I know I did some pushing myself, such as about wearing bras. I turned out to be deeper in than "just want to look pretty", and I think that at that point I probably needed to wear bras -- but with me not even understanding that myself, there wasn't much I could say other than "I felt like it". There were reasons, but the reasons only became visible in hindsight. Not a good time for either of us. I probably came across as selfish, but for me at the time, it was more like needing to eat.

[kellycan27]

Whereas with TS there IS no compromise?
Let's keep on topic.

Yes as transsexuals we compromise..Most of our lives are spent compromising...... our jobs, our families, and our friends. I am not sure how we could compromise with our SO's as for the most part we can't hide who we are from them. We can't switch back and forth, and acceptance is going to be all or nothing at all. If we own this thing of ours there is no middle ground for us.

Kel

[JamieTG]

I agree. Really accepting it is a rarity. How would we react if our wife or girlfriend wanted to present herself as a man including growing leg and underarm hair. Would we be able to accept that if the shoe were on the other foot?

[ReineD]

Some exceptional girls are honestly fine with CDing and support their husbands but that in my eyes is quite a rare instance.

Are you talking about support for a CDer, or support for a TS? I agree, the women who support transitioning spouses are rare indeed. On the other hand, the number of CDers who end up being late-onset TSs are also rare. And yes, I know we've had our share of threads in the CD section filled with "I wish I were a woman" posts, but if you do the math, the people who say this represent a small percentage of the total membership.

Getting back to the CDing, I don't think the GGs who accept this are all that exceptional. Sandra mentions there is a time frame from when a GG first learns about the CDing and she doesn't like it, to when it will all fall into place ... especially if the GG finds out years into a relationship. And this time frame can take YEARS. Why is it that when a GG shares her concerns or her objections, it is assumed she will always feel this way? Don't CDers and TSs also spend some years hoping the CDing will go away and does anyone call them "non-supportive"?


I have been getting a LOT of private messenged from WIVES ... they keep thanking me for telling the truth. They express huge amounts of frustration for all the crap they put up with. They say they should have gotten a divorce way sooner than they did. They tell me that its actually nice to see someone keeping it real. They even appologize to me for the retorts I have gotten, and go on to say they get them as well if they say what they really think.

We do have our share of GGs who have a hard time wrapping their minds around the CDing. Truth be told, it is the GGs who DO need the support who come here more than the GGs who have no issues. Does this surprise anyone? I also hear the sentiment from the GGs who wish their husbands would stop CDing, that they feel their views are unpopular and honestly I can't say that I blame them. There are ornery CDers here who for some reason feel that GGs should accept everything about the CDing right away and they aren't shy about saying so.

That said, I just wonder why no one seems to pay any attention to all the positive stories of SO acceptance from the CDers themselves, whose wives are NOT members here, because they simply don't need the support. They're happy with their situations. :)

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/tags.php?tag=supportive+so

[Marleena]

That said, I just wonder why no one seems to pay any attention to all the positive stories of SO acceptance from the CDers themselves, whose wives are NOT members here, because they simply don't need the support. They're happy with their situations. :)

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/tags.php?tag=supportive+so

Some of us are paying attention.:) Others are just hell bent on making it all seem hopeless.

[ReineD]

Some of us are paying attention.:) Others are just hell bent on making it all seem hopeless.

I don't think they aim to make it seem hopeless. They just cannot see outside their own personal experiences. Some people just can't get the big picture.

[Phylis Nicole Schuyler]

I pretty much agree. And I also agree with Kelly. These boards encompass only a very small proportion of the CD world. How many more merely troll or have never found this place or participated in the discussion. I think the vast majority of wives/girlfriends/whatever (and I do mean vast) don't want anything to do with their men crossdressing. Take my own wife for instance. She is what I would call a very normal average regular woman. She was raised as a girl to be a girl, went through adolescence as a female, found that she had a natural attraction to men, and not to women, and grew into a typical heterosexual woman. She married (twice) and had the expectation when doing so of enjoying a heterosexual relationship with her husband for the rest of her life.

She learned eventually that her husband crossdresses. And she didn't like it one little bit. After all, she married a man, and wanted a man in her life and not some female emulator. She doesn't need educating, she doesn't need counselling, and she doesn't need to learn acceptance. She is a very accepting person. She remained married to me, but she really doesn't want one thing to do with the whole crossdressing thing. She wants her man to be just that: her MAN. And I don't blame her one bit. I want her to be my woman, and I'd not like it much if she was running around all the time trying her best to look like a man. I get it. And so I do my very best to keep my life with her apart from my crossdressing activities. When she's around, I am her husband. When she is not, I take the liberty to exercise my desires to crossdress, provided more important obligations are already met.

You see, any compromise other than the one I've made with her, where she is simply not at all involved in this, is a compromise that is inevitably weighted in my favor. And to me, that will not do. To me, that would seem selfish. I believe a marriage, in order to work, must have both parties believing that they should give up what is important to themselves for the benefit of the other. My compromise here is just that way. I don't bother engaging in crossdressing activities that infringe and cross over into her territory. I still get to enjoy my feminine time, but it does not enter into her life one bit if I can help it. And before anyone says, "Yeah, but then shouldn't she give up her objections in order to make YOU happy?", I'm here to tell you that she already gives up enough to make us both happy. It's not her fault I crossdress, so that places the onus upon me. It's a compromise I'm comfortable with, and apparently, so is she. And our marriage has lasted 18 years so far, and doesn't seem to be in any danger of ending any time soon.

You'll notice (if you bother) that I don't sit on these boards and complain that my wife just doesn't understand. Heck, I don't even understand it completely, so why should I expect her to? Do I wish she was an accepting wife? Sure I do. But do I let that bother me, or do I make it a lynch-pin of whether or not we remain a couple. No, I do not. My advice to all those here who are dealing with unaccepting SOs, deal with it. The onus is on you, not them. You cannot force acceptance from anyone. They either will, or won't, or may possibly grow into it. But in the mean time, it's up to you to deal with it, not your wives or girlfriends.

Right to the heart of it all. Well done. My So is the same way your wife is and it is my onus and what will be will be. Thank God I have friends like Inna, Noeleena and my Nicole. They are my strength in all matters of Klinefelter's Syndrome and my being a crossdresser. You're right Inna, people, including ourselves, can't handle the truth. It takes time, maybe. Notice the clarifier.