Do U have a, "Us against them", mentality when you're out"?

[docrobbysherry]

After reading Amber's inspirational thread, I thot about that in myself. Please remember, I couldn't pass on a moonless midnite at the North Pole! A couple of years ago, my first time out, I was trying to go to a nearby park for some pics. And was scared to death when I saw someone 50 yds. away! Or, looking out their window.:doh:

But, over the years, I'm getting better! Actually asking folks that knew I was a guy to take my pic on Halloween. And, I hope to be able to stop and chat, as Allie suggests, at this year's DLV. Where I heard numerous guffaws and comments a year ago!:eek: Those r the ones that will be my biggest test!

Yes, some folks can be rude, but most r just caught off guard and think there must be something wrong with us! Stopping to talk would often prove to them that we're pretty normal folks except for our outfits!:battingeyelashes:

However, we MUST get over our own, "us against them", mental blocks first! :brolleyes:

Could u, or do u, do that?:straightface:

[NathalieX66]

No, not at all.
I have not had any animosity directed towards me in any place, whether it be a restaurant, shopping mall, Starbucks, etc......anywhere.
Maybe I have it lucky in some ways because I'm shorter than five foot seven inches, and not overweight, but to be honest with you, I have found few eyes on me at all. I'm just not the ideal attractive woman, so nobody looks at me. That being said, sometimes it works in my favor.

[AmberDay]

The saying goes, "Easier said than done!" A lot of CDs/TGs/TVs/ etc say, "Of course you can go out! You pass!" Not always. Like Nathalie, most people are so involved with what they are doing that they don't actually look at another human being.

For instance: I am a city bus driver. All RTA employees ride the bus for free. Now I don't look at my passengers. A person got on my bus, walked pass the farebox, and sat down. I turned my head halfway over and said, "Hey, I need a bus fare!" He responds, "You serious?" I actually look at him now, and he was a fellow driver in FULL UNIFORM!!!!!

docrobbysherry, I'm willing to bet my subscription to Cosmo, that at that park, they either 1. Didn't see you as anything other than a woman or 2. Didn't care that you were something other than a woman.

It is extremely difficult to go out. Like me, you may have no problems for a while and then meet that one jerk that makes you step back. When that happens, pull out your iPod, select Tubthumping by Chumbawamba. You get knocked down, but you get up again..... They will never keep you down!!!!

Us vs Them? That is an interesting question...... me vs them? I don't want to say it, but yes I do for now. I am trying to lose that mentality. I joked with my therapist about my excursions; called them sorties and would 'chalk up another successful mission!' I considered not having any problems a successful mission. I won over those that didn't know (damn that sounds childish! Sheesh!) I am changing that now. I don't consider my experience at Joann Fabrics a failure. I am not vs them anymore. I am one of 'them'. There are so many different types of people out there and I am just a unique individual on this planet. Same with you docrobbysherry! Don't be against 'them'! Be them! You can't beat them, so join them!!!! Of course, "Easier said than done"

Amber

[Vickie_CDTV]

I do. I am always "on guard" when out dressed in public, looking around and on alert for some kind of trouble even if it is just minor. Maybe it is the experiences in my life when I was young, but I find it very hard to let my guard down and relax when out dressed.

[noeleena]

Hi,

I spos my ? is who's them, If its about men then yes, im not one of them, do they look at me yes of cause they do. never was one of them to begin with, yet thats really not what this is about,

This is about can i pass or blend in as a woman be a part of a group of people & no one know me or look at myself as being different,

Im different so no i can not be a part of any group & people not know i dont belong as far as being seen is concerned,

So to make sence of this i tell people what i am i talk with many people & explain why im different ,

After haveing done this for over 15 years im used to being looked at, & allso it gives people a insight in to we can be a part of socity & still remain different yet are accepted , so no probs for my self,

Joining women only groups at first some people are not sure because they have not come across ones like myself, after the first 5 - 10 min's or so theres a different attitude shown & then you become a part of them you are with them & get on with what ever,

Yes im a woman just because im not like in some ways a compleat woman does not mean im not a woman , as far as it goes , itll depend on you as a person first not wether your male or a woman or like my self .

Iv worked on a lot of details about my self,, how i interact with woman just by being myself not a put on or a act , its about being comfortable with who you are as a person. i did not work on being a woman i did not ....wont .....to be a woman i allready was, = female,

I get on quite well with men as friends yet over the years that was very hard & i struggled with that,

We all . well most have issues about our selfs, i have, got through many of them yet theres still a few, ill allways have a battle with yes like many i know its how we look body wise or mine facial features , so yea i contend with that.

The point is if we or myself put that in front of every thing we do we would not go any were or as i have been in front of 1000.s of people & talked to them in large groups, some times i wonder how i can do that,

Its about not letting..... fear.... over take us, hold us back & keep us down. & i know what it did to me years ago.

So its about change in our selfs & not takeing on ,

as said .....Them and us......

We all have a need to.... Belong.... most of us any way, So we must accept others as well if we wont to be accepted,

...noeleena...

[Kate Simmons]

For myself it's only "Us against them" concerning the Reticulans RS.:)

[Karren H]

Not "us" but "Me"..... And not really "against" in a fighting way... More like "versus" in a competitive way....

[Cheryl T]

NO...I'm just happy to be out in the world, enjoying shopping, dining or whatever. I don't think there are "sides"...just one big, happy family. And I'm a part of it.

[kimdl93]

When I first ventured out I was fearful, I suppose fearful of "them" and how they might react. Fortunately, I was armed with a smile and sense of humor, and I quickly realized that the people I met either didn't notice, didn't care or were surprisingly friendly.

[Frédérique]

Do U have a, "Us against them", mentality when you're out"?

It all depends who “they” are, I suppose... :idontknow:

That being said, I cultivate this “Us vs. Them” mentality at all times, not just when I’m out – it’s all part of the special-ness of crossdressing, and I like to feel different and apart. If there are no THEM, there can’t really be US, correct? In order to maintain this non-understandable something that makes us unique, curious, queer, deviant, perverted, eccentric, artistic, or truly HUMAN, you need to play against something, namely the group mentality that insists boys will be boys and girls will be girls. Aren’t you supposed to question everything? Yeah – I have seen the enemy, and it is THEM, but I love my enemies...
:battingeyelashes:

[AllieSF]

Well, I don't see it as us versus them. To me it is I and them, which together makes a wonderful "us". I prefer to look at it all in a positive view point until I get proved wrong, and I have not been proved wrong yet and hope that it continues that way. My best experiences are when I and them become we and us, and we get into all kinds of interesting and sometimes very personal conversations. From what I can tell we are all satisfied at the end of the encounter with I or them or us going home with email addresses and phone numbers, like last night when Rachael and I while eating dinner in a nice restauarnt were invited to eat Colombian food at the home of a very cute Colombian girl, her birthday celebrating boyfriend and their friend a married Colombian girl. Oh, and they asked for our contact info, which always makes my day, or evening. I appreciate that not all can do that, but the point is that it is very possible and less of a problem and risk than many think. As I have said before in other threads, the turtle cannot advance unless it sticks its neck out a little.

[Lorileah]

I am not afraid of most ....wait did you see that? and why is there ominous organ music in the background?

I really am not afraid of people in general. I don't pay much attention to them when I am out and about. I do mind my own business for the most part. I look forward when I walk and I move along usually with my head high. I pass about as well as any 6 ft tall 190 pound woman would

[docrobbysherry]

It all depends who “they” are, I suppose... :idontknow:

That being said, I cultivate this “Us vs. Them” mentality at all times, not just when I’m out – it’s all part of the special-ness of crossdressing, and I like to feel different and apart. If there are no THEM, there can’t really be US, correct? In order to maintain this non-understandable something that makes us unique, curious, queer, deviant, perverted, eccentric, artistic, or truly HUMAN, you need to play against something, namely the group mentality that insists boys will be boys and girls will be girls. Aren’t you supposed to question everything? Yeah – I have seen the enemy, and it is THEM, but I love my enemies...
:battingeyelashes:
Like MOST topics, U have a delightful, refreshing take on this, Freddie! Definitely food for my thots! Thanks for posting it!

[STACY B]

LOOK just do what I do an no one I meen no one will even see a boy in a dress when your out ? Go an get some TOTAL rasinbran ,, An some prun juice , An some pairs , Makesure you eat alot of cabbage the day before an that morning eat the rasin bran , Drink the prun juice, An threw out the day eat a bunch of pairs ,, Yull have GAS so BAD an you will be FARTING so much an loud no one within a mile will notice you have on girl clothes I swear .

[STACY B]

Nah. My reaction is 'Who gives a rats ass'.

Lookit. I'm from Brooklyn. Fuggeddabouditt!... and nothing phases me when I'm out En Femme. Or drab, or when the twin towers came down...well maybe when the towers came down...around my ears....but out dressed? No. See my 'Day Out At Macy's..

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?170442-Went-to-Macy-s-en-femme...what-a-hoot!-%29&highlight=

You get a knucklehead once in a while, (As I described in my thread), but you deal with it and move on. The SA I met is probably the exception to the rule, but hey...who gives a rat's ass.....oh, did I already say that? ;)

Did I report her to 'Macy's Police'? Nah, who gives a flyin'.... :D

Thats right ,, If they worry about there bizz they wont be minding mine ? HEYYYYYYYY Thats a song !!!! >>>>>> Its a PERK !

[Launa]

I can get that "us against them mood" real fast when I go out. I've only been out twice and I've found that I'm ready to let someone know if they stare too long, make comments or whatever... I have to find a way to get over that, its not very ladylike!

[GBJoker]

I have never thought in an "us/me vs. them" way. It has never occured to me actually. At least, in the way OP is talking of.

[Asche]

When I first started going out in skirts and all, I was a bit paranoid. However, I've mostly tried to put myself in the place of the people who see me and see them as well-intentioned and tried to interpret any apparently negative reaction as their simply being confused by my presentation. In 5+ years of going out dressed as I do (not even trying to "pass"), I've gotten maybe 3 hostile reactions and maybe 5 or 6 non-accepting reactions. And maybe 5 or 6 people asking why I dress as I do.

It's still true that I'm -- let's say, on my guard -- when dressing in unfamiliar environments. I've figured it's a little like being Black (USA) and going into white-dominated places: you never know whether someone is going to be a jerk, and, if he does, whether the rest of the people will support you or throw you to the wolves. But that may be just my own issue: I spent most of my growing up being, so to speak, thrown to the wolves every day, and I was not dressing in girlish clothes at the time. (For one thing, no sisters.) At some deep level, my attitude towards all other members of my species is "dangerous until proven otherwise."

Work, however, is different. I do not feel all that safe exposing my non-work-related aspects there anyway, and to the extent that I might run into people from work outside of work, I try to make sure they don't see anything of my "non-standard" dress preferences. For one thing, my manager likes to keep his underlings off-balance and on the defensive, and I don't want to give him any more ammunition.

[JessHaust]

Really, stop telling people that it is hard to go out. it is NOT! I have not, nor has any CD I know (around 40) ever, I repeat ever had an issue other than their own fear.

[AllieSF]

Jess, it is hard for some to go out. I agree it is not scary out there and actually a lot of wonderful and satisfying fun. However, many people sky dive and others jump off of very high bridges with that long elastic cord attached to their ankles. That is really hard for me to even think about doing. Fortunately, I have other funner things to occupy my time that I am not afraid to do.

[Eryn]

I don't worry too much about "them." I've spotted a couple of folks giving me looks that might indicate disapproval, but that could be for any reason. I don't dwell upon it because I have no control over what others think. I just enjoy the pleasure of doing things I like to do in the way I like to do them.

[ArleneRaquel]

I don't have that attitude, in fact people I meet are much nicer than I ever thought.

[divamissz]

I don't think it is "Us vs. Them" as it is how much am I going to be tolerated today. Unless you run into a hardcore transphobe, most people do not want to confront you. They would rather get on with their live, and you are not part of it.

[JessHaust]

Ladies i dont want to be pain, but comparing going out dressed to jumping from a plane, or from the top of a skyscraper is nuts. You are not in fear of your life going out dressed, you are in fear of embarassmemt. There is no us vs them, you are just you, no different than going put in jeans and a t-shirt. Accept it for what it is, fear, and its all inside ourselves, period.

[AllieSF]

Jess, it is not hard for you nor me nor a lot of others to go out dressed as a woman. But for the majority here based on their posts it is. Many girls have posted here over the years about their fear of going out and having a confrontation with someone that gets physical, or being attacked because they are a dressed as a woman. I agree that the vast majority never have any issues when going out. The reasons they do not go out vary across the board, some very valid, such as an agreement with wife, fear of recognition and the possible negative impact it may have on friends, family and work. I used my comparison to show that fear comes in a lot of shapes and forms, and probably the bungee and skydiving deaths are minuscule when related to the number of times people do that, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was close or maybe even less than the number of hate crimes committed against the LGBT crowd. I am not saying that it will happen, just that it could, and if that is someone's reasoning, it is a fine and valid reason for me.

So, if someone has a fear of going out, to me that is as valid as my fear of jumping out of a plane, or giving a public speech in front of a large crowd. So, in my opinion, my example is not nuts, it is just another way of looking at it. I agree that embarrassment is a major factor for some. You say accept it for what it is, fear, and that is all inside ourselves. Well, I bet most of those that do not go out already accept that it is because of some fear of theirs, and they have decided to not go out. That is their choice and not anyone else's. So, what is your point? Are you saying that they have to go out, or that your point is that 100% of CD's who do not go out is because of fear? I am answering your post because it seems like an absolute and I do not believe that there are absolutes in anything besides eventual death. As much as we can guess, analyze and research we really can never be 100% sure why people do or do not do whatever. Why does it bother you that some have fear? I did not get the feeling from the posts above that anyone was really denying that it was fear or embarrassment that may be keeping them from going out, though I did not read every post in a lot of detail either. If you are trying to convince people that they should go out, peer pressure does not really work so well from my experience here. Providing positive support works much better.

[JessHaust]

Allie, i'm not trying to do anything other than get people to stop passing on the danger myth. If people are happy staying in, fine, that is their choice. But stop trying to justify it by telling, and scaring, others with the myth that something terrible will happen if you do. Please read http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?171090-Ever-get-tired-of-all-the-negativity-towards-us-TG-people for backup on this.
If any peer pressure is being applied here, its the other direction.

[Sandra1746]

The opening idea is starting the conversation on the wrong side, sort of like the old question, "when did you stop beating your ****". It really isn't an 'us' against the world, we are part of the world too. That said we do have our special concerns, but not different than any other minority has. We have fewer problems in general than those people of certain religions that wear turbans or other really distinctive head-wear.

I regularly go out dressed en-fem from the waist up or in an andro-mode with long hair and jewelry. Never had any negative comments yet and I get pleasant smiles from many GGs. So far so good! I need to get some new shoes and maybe slacks.

I will avoid some places (seedy bars and such) but I have avoided those all my life so nothing new here.

Smile and be friendly and my experience is that you will get a friendly response. Most people are so wrapped up in their own world that they never notice me or anyone else. I just wish these folks wern't also a significant fraction of the people driving cars though.

Hugs,
Sandra