Ever get tired of all the negativity towards us TG people? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

NathalieX66

03-18-2012, 09:36 PM

Other than the newspaper articles or online news of the experiences of others' bad experiences, please do share your personal experiences being out & about.

I've been out & about in public since January 2010, my first experience being in a hotel lobby near a US military base where many soldiers were present, and I was never treated rudely at all. In fact, quite pleasantly.

I was at a shopping mall decked out en femme last weekend, though my outfit was womens' jeans, ballet flats, halter top, cardigan, scarf , eyeshadow, mascara, blush, lip gloss, earrings, and I fit in with any other woman (yeah....no dress or skirt, I know). In fact, I was shopping with another member of this board, Abigail , and we went to a restaurant called Bahama Breeze, ate and drank some pretty stiff cocktails. The waiter treated us like queens.
Discrimination? What's that?

Lorileah

03-18-2012, 09:37 PM

I missed the negative part I guess. Other than the usual cliques and personality differences I find that most people are really positive about my Tgism. Especially other TG's

CynthiaD

03-18-2012, 09:45 PM

I can stand the negativity from the general public. I get a lot of that for many different reasons that have nothing to do with being TG. What I hate is when I see the same sort of negativity expressed here. This is asupport forum, after all, not yet another place to get dragged down.

CK

Marleena

03-18-2012, 09:56 PM

Being newly accepting of myself I don't have much experience with being in the public eye yet. I will be able to respond to that better by the end of April. I'm not going to let the fear of what others think of me stop me from moving ahead. Nice to see that some of you don't notice or experience the negativity.:)

AllieSF

03-18-2012, 10:01 PM

I have similar experiences as Nathalie and Lorileah have. I honestly do not experience any negativity when out. I have the total opposite experience with positive feedback always. But then I have a very positive outlook on most things and the negative stuff has to be proved to me, which in our LGBT case it hasn't been. I am also very extroverted and search out opportunities to meet and talk with complete strangers. If they had negative feelings they never have shown it to me. Maybe they do when I walk away. I don't know and don't care, which is a highly recommended attitude for those that want to go out. I do get tired of some of the negativity occasionally shown on this site. But then this is a forum made up of all types of people using the written word to communicate without any chance to talk face to face. So, something written in a certain way, when the moon is full and I have just had a bad hair day, may cause me to over react when it would normally never get to me.

PS: Marleena, I just read your post above. I think that you will see that the more you go out, the better it gets and the more your confidence will increase while your impression that the outside world is so negative will change to the positive. Things can happen out there, but it is definitely not as bad as you may now think that it is. Also, remember that one bad experience does not mean that your are correct in your thinking that the world is bad. It just means that it was your turn that day. Good luck and happy outings. They sure can be a lot of fun. Come out here and I will show you.

Bree-asaurus

03-18-2012, 10:07 PM

Like Allie and a few others have posted, I haven't had any negative experiences while out. And I'm out all the time... I live this because I'm transexual.

Maybe it has something to do with my confidence (or feigned confidence). I act like nothing is wrong, like I belong there, and if anyone has a word to say about it, they can tell it to my boot.

But as far as all the articles, news and stories of horrible things happening to gays, crossdressers and transexuals... I hate hearing them. I avoid them at all costs. Even being transexual, I won't go to the Transexual Day of Remembrance because it's just too #$%@ depressing. I don't want to hear about that stuff... I want to live my life with the thought I deserve it just as much as anyone else... and I can HAVE it.

JessHaust

03-18-2012, 10:10 PM

PretzelGirl

03-18-2012, 10:11 PM

Do you hear an echo...echo...echo. No problems here. I have seen a few point and heard a couple of giggles. No Biggie. I think that an outing can be better or worse depending on your outlook as Bree alludes to. If you are in good spirits, you aren't noticing the 15 year old girl 5 clothes racks away snickering. But if you go out nervous and expecting it, then every smile is someone outing you, every laugh is a joke about you. The world is a good place and people smile and laugh about a lot of things. Don't internalize it all.

Piora

03-18-2012, 10:22 PM

I detest criticism of any group that's based on ridicule and stereotyping. Why do people have to yell out or draw attention to people who are different? Why not be understanding enough, and compassionate enough to just keep walking. Or to treat the person who is visibly "different" in the same way they would any other person?

This might seem somewhat unrelated at first..... but when I was very young, I was exposed on occasion to some seriously disfigured and tragically deformed, wheelchair-bound individuals when I would visit a hospital where an aunt was in long-term care. I would see these poor souls in the hospital corridors. Some of them would speak to me as I walked around the hospital, and despite being somewhat frightened by them, I spoke to them in the same way that I would speak to anyone else who wasn't that way. I visited the hospital every Sunday with my parents, and I easily learned that these were people who just wanted to be treated normally, and not different than others.

It's the same with any of us who are 'different' in some way. Whether CD, TS, gay or lesbian - why can't people just treat everyone the same, and not leap to point at others with glee, criticizing them with shouts of "Are you queer?" or "That's a man!" Sure, recognize that there IS a difference......but we're all human beings. Just because we don't fit in with preconceived ideas of 'normal' doesn't give the media and people in general the right to judge, and to point fingers and criticize.

Live and let live.

Bree-asaurus

03-18-2012, 10:25 PM

You're preaching to the choir Piora ;)

SuzanneBender

03-18-2012, 10:32 PM

I also haven't ran into any significant issues while out an about. I hate the racist and bigoted articles and silly parodies of us in the media, but lately I have seen some really well done pieces concerning the TG community. I also have a different take on the bigotry. Much of it is based in religion and I belong to several Christian forums. I really enjoy engaging the intolerant on their own turf and what I have found is when I make faith based arguments for who we are others on the forums begin to defend my position. The world is full of lots of wonderful people. You just have to look past the few bad ones to find the good ones.

AllieSF

03-18-2012, 10:35 PM

Good advice Suzanne. I would lose my cool with the religious right, and I am Catholic by upbringing. Good work.

Miranda-E

03-18-2012, 10:37 PM

Piora

03-18-2012, 10:39 PM

You're preaching to the choir ;)
Yeah, I guess. Maybe I'm thinking of some of those guests reading the posts in this forum (they're not all CD guests), and I'm preaching to them. :battingeyelashes:

whowhatwhen

03-18-2012, 10:40 PM

I feed on negativity, so, wait this was a pointless post.
I do hope however I would loudly make a scene if someone was being a bigoted prick.

Eryn

03-18-2012, 10:44 PM

95+% of the population doesn't even know what TG means. Prompt them in a leading fashion and you might get a negative opinion out of them, but unprompted they don't even think about us. Put them into an impromptu situation with us and they're usually react civilly even if they manage to figure out that we're TG.

Katesback

03-18-2012, 10:55 PM

I did want to take a minnute here and point out something kind of interesting.

If you look up Tri Ess which is probably the largest CD organization out there you will see that they do NOT accept anyone but hetrosexual CDs and thier SOs. That means if your CD and you say your going to take hormones or want to transition, or gay, its goodby no longer accepted. If your TS and not a SO your likewise not accepted.

Now something seems kind of funny about a group of people that bitch about acceptance and then discriminates. Or am I crazy.

What is even more interesting to watch is if you go to a event where the CDs are present with thier SOs and a TS approaches the group you will see fear, annoyance, and in most cases the CDs will do ANYTHING to get the TS girl away!!! Take the same CDs without the SOs present and its total acceptance and all too often far more than acceptance of the TS.

I am just pointing out observations I mean I have seen it a lot of times.

So a recap it is interesting to note that the CDs that lament about acceptance and discrimination, have this large organization out there and they do not accept anyone but hetro CDs.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.

Support comes in many forms, often here its seen as a fluffy rainbow tell me I am doing great, pat me on the back and make me feel good even if I am doing a terrible jog sort of support. Support also comes in the form of hearing things you dont want to hear but its the truth and sometimes the truth hurts and effects change. In this case I might suggest the CDs clean thier own house before they complain about others houses. Hope you get the point.

Katie

Yeah, I guess. Maybe I'm thinking of some of those guests reading the posts in this forum (they're not all CD guests), and I'm preaching to them. :battingeyelashes:

Miranda-E

03-18-2012, 11:01 PM

whowhatwhen

03-18-2012, 11:08 PM

*vroom vroom*
Heeere we go

Edit:
I'm going to forever live in the closet out of spite, not for anyone in peticular but just in general.

Katesback

03-18-2012, 11:20 PM

LOL yes they arent discriminatory sometimes..........like when the wives arent present.

No you're not crazy, Tri-ees is bigoted and deplorable.
A lot of local chapters claim they aren't like that when directly asked, but they are still under and supporting the homophobic anti-trans mission statement.

Marleena

03-18-2012, 11:28 PM

It is sad when TG help groups have certain criteria that has to be met. I've heard some complaints from members here that it definitely does occur. It can be the shunning of SO's too or certain TG statuses within the umbrella group.

ReineD

03-18-2012, 11:40 PM

What makes it even more maddening is when TG people on this very board jump on the band wagon to try and make us feel bad about who we are.

Maybe I just read too much.

Marleena, I hope you take this the right way, but maybe you just need to step back from the forum for a few days. I've felt that way many times in the past ... sort of a burnout I guess.

It's a large forum with a wide variety of people, some saner than others, some more tactful than others, some with stronger abilities to see beyond their own circumstances than others. I don't think most people here try to put others down, even though some of the posts read that way. :hugs:

EDIT

Being newly accepting of myself I don't have much experience with being in the public eye yet. I will be able to respond to that better by the end of April.

There you go! You need to put some eggs in different baskets. Try to focus on going out and you'll see that you won't be affected so much by some of the people here who look at things differently than you do. :)

Marleena

03-18-2012, 11:44 PM

Marleena, I hope you take this the right way, but maybe you just need to step back from the forum for a few days. I've felt that way many times in the past ... sort of a burnout I guess.

It's a large forum with a wide variety of people, some saner than others, some more tactful than others, some with stronger abilities to see beyond their own circumstances than others. I don't think most people here try to put others down, even though some of the posts read that way. :hugs:

Maybe you're right. Thanks.:)

GBJoker

03-18-2012, 11:56 PM

I will probably never go out dressed. I have to go through and put up with a massive amount of negativity from all kinds of other things, being a TG is not something I want to do in public. People still hate the hearing impaired and deaf, people don't like being around a guy who has very little control over the right side of his body, the LGB community, ironically, hates B's, and even family members and "friends" refuse to talk to me anymore since I've a "different personality" since the surgery. Besides, I've heard so many crazy stories that it doesn't seem worth it at this point to take any pride in being a TG, and go out in the world.

So... My answer is a combination. Yes, I hate the negativity for all the reasons already mentioned in this thread. And no, it doesn't bother me in the slightest, because I don't really deal with negativity towards the TG community.

I can stand the negativity from the general public. I get a lot of that for many different reasons that have nothing to do with being TG. What I hate is when I see the same sort of negativity expressed here. This is asupport forum, after all, not yet another place to get dragged down.

CK

Which is why I lurk this site so much. (As opposed to interacting.)

Stuff

Tends to make a person a bit cynical, eh?

DanaR

03-19-2012, 02:09 AM

I haven't been on this site in several weeks, probably because of my attitude about negative reactions. I used to be fairly confident when I went out, and most of the time I am. But I had an incident with some women at a belly dance class a couple of years ago that sort of rocked me. I think that I mentioned this before, so I'll not go into it again very much. I had been taking some classes and then dropped out for several months. When I went back, some new people told the instructor that if I was there they would quit. I was asked to leave. I'm on the fence now to go back. I stopped by and talked to the instructor a couple of weeks ago and she was okay with me returning.

JessHaust

03-19-2012, 02:54 AM

........
What is even more interesting to watch is if you go to a event where the CDs are present with thier SOs and a TS approaches the group you will see fear, annoyance, and in most cases the CDs will do ANYTHING to get the TS girl away!!! Take the same CDs without the SOs present and its total acceptance and all too often far more than acceptance of the TS.

I am just pointing out observations I mean I have seen it a lot of times.

Kate, i've never attended a Tri-Ess meeting, never seemed like much fun, but I go to events setup on my TG meetup group every week, sometimes several a week. We have CD's, TG's, SO's and TS's and we all get along just fine. We all respect each other and celibrate a common bond. Maybe there are groups of CD's that shun TS's out there, but I can testify that it is by no means the rule.

Shelly Preston

03-19-2012, 04:57 AM

Well I guess I am one of the luckier ladies here as I have never had any trouble when out (apart from the odd comment).
Yes there is a risk of something bad but there is a risk for anyone crossing a road. It's all about the size of the risk and are we just being extra careful.
Our problem as a community is that the media sieze on any story they can sensationalise that to increase sales. A man dressed as a girl robbing a bank suits them just fine.
We have a lot of ladies here who because they get on with their daily lives with no hassles become almost like the silent majority. Its hard to promote being normal if you dont stand out. All those of us who are out among the general public is change one mind at a time. I dont know about Tri ess as I live in the UK, but any group I have attended has been accepting of all. They dont discriminate against anyone.

Foxglove

03-19-2012, 05:42 AM

Hi, Marleena! Yes, I do get a bit down sometimes because of stuff I see in the media. If, e.g., you come across an article on the net somewhere and then look at the comments below it, some of those comments can be unbelievable--incredibly ignorant and vicious. But I've wondered about those people who post such comments: they're very loud and brave while they're safely anonymous at home on their own computer. If they ran into a TG person in the flesh somewhere, would they be so brave and vocal? Maybe not. (After all, there are plenty of MTF CDers who are well able to handle themselves.)

More than the negativity you see from ignorant outsiders, what gets me down is the negativity we sometimes see within our own group. But this is no time to get off on that.

Best wishes, Annabelle

kimdl93

03-19-2012, 08:21 AM

Honestly, except for the comments I read on this site, I never think about what the "public" opinion of TGs is.

Julia_in_Pa

03-19-2012, 08:32 AM

I've been discriminated against at a position I held at a company due to someone in HR somehow obtaining certain medical information concerning me being intersexed.
After obtaining a good lawyer who penned a very nasty letter my employer settled out of court for a decent amount of money.
The person in HR who leaked the information was fired.

I've had two friends who have committed suicide due to accumulative negative experiences concerning family loss and the inability to locate a job after transition.

Discrimination comes from the general public yes but more often then not discrimination comes from those closest to us.

Julia

Lorileah

03-19-2012, 10:40 AM

No matter where you go or what you do there will be someone who disagrees with who you are or what you do.

People who start with a negative attitude often get the same in return. In our sphere there are the naysayers, the ne'er do wells, the angry for what ever reason. Tri-Ess though maybe a good idea on the surface either started as or has morphed into a closed and "elitist" group who really attracts people who are already disillusioned. They have never really been an inclusive group and that was fine with me because it was as Mark Twain said a group I would not want to be a member of. Broad brush here but I don't think I have even seen a happy face at any Tri-Ess function. Maybe they have fun in private. But those who are happy with the "sorority" are welcome to that happiness. I usually feel coldness from the DQ's here but that is a two way street and I hope to work through that soon.

Being human, we have preconceived or false information on which we build an opinion. When I get the "lemon" face, I just assume they don't know any better. As I said though the most often I get that face is from a "sister" and every GG in the world knows how that goes.

ReineD

03-19-2012, 10:43 AM

If you look up Tri Ess which is probably the largest CD organization out there you will see that they do NOT accept anyone but hetrosexual CDs and thier SOs. That means if your CD and you say your going to take hormones or want to transition, or gay, its goodby no longer accepted. If your TS and not a SO your likewise not accepted. Now something seems kind of funny about a group of people that bitch about acceptance and then discriminates. Or am I crazy.

I don't think you're crazy, but you are painting with a broad brush. Tri-Ess is just like any other franchise where quality controls aren't strict. The quality of the chapter depends on the people who are currently running the show. I've no doubt there are some chapters who are limited with their POVs, but there are also others who are more fluid. A friend was heavily involved in a chapter in the midwest. She by no means adheres to the strict party lines. At one point she even felt she needed to transition.

Even then, Tri-Ess groups are only a small percentage of all the TG groups throughout this country and others. Here's a list of Tri-Ess chapters in the states. There are only 30 of them!!! :p

http://www.tri-ess.org/SSS_chapdir.html

You can imagine how many other TG support groups there are.

What is even more interesting to watch is if you go to a event where the CDs are present with thier SOs and a TS approaches the group you will see fear, annoyance, and in most cases the CDs will do ANYTHING to get the TS girl away!!! Take the same CDs without the SOs present and its total acceptance and all too often far more than acceptance of the TS.

There is no Tri-Ess chapter where we live but my SO belongs to a huge group that meets monthly in a city two hours away. This group has been around for decades. My own SO has been a member for about 10 years. The current president is a woman who transitioned (with SRS & FFS) years (and I mean years) ago and her lovely GG wife. The vice-president had SRS a few years ago and shortly after her surgery she proudly showed me the pics on her cell phone. :) My SO and I have been to many meetings there and we always have a great time. It's hard to tell, but it looks to me as if the membership is split 50/50 TS and CD. I have never, ever seen anything like you describe above. No CDer in that group runs from any TS and vice-versa.

I do wish you would stop looking at things just from just your own perspective.

Krististeph

03-19-2012, 10:47 AM

I have to lend a 3rd voice to Natalie and Lorileah. I have never experienced anything negative, quite the contrary. Every time I have been out, I have been treated like a celebrity, and I have been out dozens of times, to all kind of places. I heard on this site about negative treatment, but only as hearsay, never anyone who has actually experienced it themselves.

you know, not that i've been out all that much en femme- but i have to agree (umm.. concur, that is, since i'm playing doctor today).

My biggest issues are when i go shopping en drab (because i'm still too chicken to go out en femme) and it's always the other customers i get the weird-ed out vibes from. I can't say i'm unsympathetic to their reaction, but then, why the hell should they give a rat's a$$ (sorry rats, no offense intended) what i'm buying?

But we are a gender specific society, for worse (no 'for better' about it) and for as much as a meyhem maker as i am- this is one area i'm not yet attacking.

FYI- my wife and I talked about this some last night in fact- more to come.

-Kristi

Kaitlyn Michele

03-19-2012, 10:59 AM

Kate's brush is (as always) pretty broad, but also pretty honest...heh...i had a short run-in with tri-ess years ago, and it was horrible...

They definitely did not want me around when the wives were around...the funniest part was i started exploring the scene and i found out how much sex there really was, i bumped into two tri-ess "gals" trolling for admirers and i just thought wow..
Pot/kettle/black...that soured me alot...so i admit bias based on my experience

I think Marleena also sometimes disagreement and true exchange of differing ideas is very difficult without some negative vibes...forum communication is inherently prone to miscommunication, and anonymity breeds contempt.

Also because many of us have to work so hard in life to consider and protect our own identity, ideas and thoughts that go against our feelings can feel especially negative...
those types of threads are the ones that turn most negative...

its not negative to say ...that is "just crossdressing", but it sounds negative to a person that is here to fantasize about being a woman 24/7...maybe even what i just wrote could sound negative to somebody..

++++++++++++++

As far as out and about...i traveled the road from totally unpassable to today.... and i never once had a problem other than a smirk or snide comments..

i have had many humbling moments including having to get extra motel keys in a rainstorm at 2am with my male id (think wet wig, streaked makeup, beard stubble)
and tripping and falling at macy's and being surrounded by guys that quickly realized what i was and recoiled...

my worst was when two guys walked by me in a parking lot and burst out laughing, and one said "nice dress" as they guffawed...it made me feel bad, but i also learned it was no big deal to get laughed at, and it motivated me to lose weight, i looked pretty nasty stuffed into that size 12 when i was really 1X....

Katesback

03-19-2012, 11:24 AM

Ah yes the secret sex lives of men, great topic. What is interesting about those that have secret sex lives and crossdress is that they get to think they are being a woman when they have sex. I have met CDs that have sex with men or other CDs and when I ask them about the cheating they deny cheating because when they are a woman it is a different personality that is having the sex. Some even claim to be straight because when they are dressed as a woman they are a woman. Or something like that. LOL

I would have never been exposed to all this had I not taken the job working with trans people. It was an enlightening experience for sure. So much so that you could not ever pay me enough money to do that again. I did my bid for king and country and I came to realize you cant help people whos glass is already full. Funny thing is the ones that identify as TS make CDs look sane more often than not.

As a sidebar. Would you belive that I have had in the last week had a CD say that I HATE CDs. hmmmm ok. Many others suggest that my experiences and observations are miniscule. Hmmmm, ok easy to overlook the countless trans people I worked for. What other interesting things have happened. Ohhhh today I got a private messenge from a CD asking me to leave the forum. Oh and the best of all is all the people that say that I am being ALL encompasing about ALL CDs when I make my statments. My favorite part is that I keep getting messenges from Wives thanking me for telling the truth and keeping it real. They do really realize that I am not refering to ALL CDs just some. Am I making them scarred? Well from the messenges it appears they have been scarred all along. They seem confused, and not taking too well to the EDUCATION that the CDs seem to think will help them.

So because people either cant read or dont read what is in the text I will throw out my disclaimer again. I have NEVER said that my statments refer to ALL CDs. I have always used words like MANY, A LOT, A SURPRISING PERCENTAGE, ect, ect.

Katie

Talldrinkofwater

03-19-2012, 11:51 AM

Sometimes it seems like some people were never brought up with the 'ol "if you can't say anything nice" advice. Plus negativity is contagious. But from what I've noticed from the outside world is that most people try to have a good heart. For every insult I've had directed my way, there's always five smiles not far behind. i have yet to have anyone bold enough to put me down to my face, rather just from a comfortable distance that these professionally trained ears can hear. The strange thing is that negative comments typically come from those who look like someone just took their birthday away from them. So I doubt that I have much to do with their own world of sorrow.

ReineD

03-19-2012, 11:54 AM

...the funniest part was i started exploring the scene and i found out how much sex there really was, i bumped into two tri-ess "gals" trolling for admirers and i just thought wow.

Well, this makes sense. Just google Crossdressing and we are served umpteen sex, porn, and meetup sites. I agree there are those for whom the CDing is largely sexual. I dare say their marriages don't last long, or they just don't (or can't) get into relationships with GGs to begin with. lol

Or, the CDing lives in the realm of "fantasy/secret sexual desires" only, in CDers who have the ability to turn it on and off. And their wives will never know. I doubt these married men ever make it out of their closets far enough to attend regular TG support groups or go out in the mainstream.

And yes, the tranny clubs are filled with other CDers (and TSs) looking to have sex with men.

Still, if an individual has it within him to be happily married to a wife that he cares about, his priorities will lie elsewhere than seeking "girly" thrills. Call me naive, but this is likely the breed of CDers who are attracted to this forum ... the people who don't want to hang out in all the meet-up and porn sites. This doesn't mean there aren't the sexually focused CDers elsewhere ... probably most of whom are single or divorced. Or gay/bi.

I have met CDs that have sex with men or other CDs and when I ask them about the cheating they deny cheating because when they are a woman it is a different personality that is having the sex. Some even claim to be straight because when they are dressed as a woman they are a woman.

Yes, and you can be assured these guys don't stay married long (if they ever were in relationships with GGs to begin with). See my comments to Kaitlyn above. There are all kinds of CDers in the TG community.

SuzanneBender

03-19-2012, 12:03 PM

Well I have to weigh in here because well I just have too. Kate is right, to a point, I have seen discrimination within the TG ranks. Unfortunately I have seen it flow both ways and most times it just really ticks me off! Tri-Ess was my first attempt at finding support within the community and because I was not 100% sure I was a crossdresser and not "something else" (their words not mine). I was told I could not attend. Running into a discriminatory wall with your own sisters is never a fun way to start a journey.

Katesback

03-19-2012, 12:07 PM

Anna Lorree

03-19-2012, 12:14 PM

Yes TS girls are just as guilty of discrimination. I have seen it as well countless times. Of course this exact forum is about CD issues and hence I wont talk about the TS issues. Of course you could take a trip to the TS section where you will see I am far more critical of those people than CDs.

Katie

Yes, you ARE critical, and opinionated and rather abrupt. That said, I wouldn't ask you to leave. Your opinion is born of experience, and only fools fail to listen to the experience of others who have been and done things. The fact that you call BS on things is commendable in my view. If a CD person has a male lover on the side, fine as long as their wife knows and agrees. Any other variation is cheating, it doesn't matter what the CD is wearing or thinking. Sex with somebody other than your spouse/SO without their knowledge AND permission is cheating.

I don't always agree with you, and you sometimes rub me the wrong way, but you have every right to say what you say.

Anna

Kaitlyn Michele

03-19-2012, 12:24 PM

I hear you Reine...

I would suggest that the bottom line is that people cheat on their SO's with some regularity
..and CD clubbing is one thing that guys use to hide behaviour..and there is a high proportion cd/cd stuff going on...

but it not fair to jump on all cd's for it, and its debatable whether to trust your SO any more or less than if he went to bachelor parties, strip clubs, guy weekends, long business trips or any of the other excuses people use to get time for their bad behavior

The part that I would "call out" is how incredibly hypocritical the folks that do the cheating really are, and its difficult to talk about without making the larger group of honest and faithful folks feel smeared...

Marleena

03-19-2012, 01:00 PM

TG people looking for sex in clubs is getting us a bit off topic here. I will say though that I have no interest in looking for sex. I dress up because I need to and want to do things in public like anybody else. It is refreshing to see some of the girls enjoying themselves while out dressed. I also realize it is not a perfect world and some people just don't like anybody that is different from the majority. We are a minority.

Thanks for the replies so far.

whowhatwhen

03-19-2012, 01:05 PM

I would have never been exposed to all this had I not taken the job working with trans people. It was an enlightening experience for sure. So much so that you could not ever pay me enough money to do that again. I did my bid for king and country and I came to realize you cant help people whos glass is already full. Funny thing is the ones that identify as TS make CDs look sane more often than not.

This may be a bit OT, but why?
If a lot of us CDs are supposed to be deeply closeted TS, do we just become insane later down the line?

ReineD

03-19-2012, 02:30 PM

This may be a bit OT, but why?
If a lot of us CDs are supposed to be deeply closeted TS, do we just become insane later down the line?

Well, with all due respect to Kate, she's not a gender specialist. She had no way of knowing whether or not the people she tried to help counsel really wanted to transition to begin with, or if they were in fact outside the gender binary and would have been better served to find a way to be at peace with all aspects of themselves.

(I'm saying this based on Kate's many previous posts, where she wrote about TGs who said they wanted to be women but were reluctant to go full speed ahead through all phases of transition.)

Badtranny

03-19-2012, 03:34 PM

Negativity on the forum? I'm not sure I agree with that. Sure there is some, but there is no doubt that many (a LOT) of the CD's are just hyper sensitive to anything that isn't overly complimentary. I certainly support CD's in whatever they want to do but I'm also one of those "meanies" who sometimes points out the silliness of certain members. Some of the stuff I see on this forum makes me shake my head until I'm almost dizzy.

None of us have anybody to blame except ourselves if people have the wrong idea about us. I see so many posts about "If they only knew", well let them know! I walk around every day being a good example for TG folks and I guarantee if every CD came out and said, "hey you know what? I dig wearing women's clothes" the attitude of the general public would change almost overnight. I see a lot of complaining around here about "them" and I see very little desire to make a change. To BE the change. I also see lots of advice from closet queens and that is just something I can't abide.

Speaking of closet queens, when I first started cross dressing back in 2009 I fooled around with a couple of CD's before realized that it wasn't my thing but 90% of all of the men who come on to me turn out to be guess what? CD's! The closet cases are the worst, it's so common that every time I meet a closeted CD, I'm just waiting for him to try and F me. I love love LOVE CD's who are out and proud, my friends Allie and Melissa Rose come to mind but these girls are few and far between in the CD world.

I think support and acceptance is where you find it, and sometimes you have to open your eyes to see the real thing.

Daphne Renee

03-19-2012, 03:58 PM

I am rarely out in public . That may change in the future.. I dont like the negative stereotyping when it comes to things in writing. I live in TN and not that long ago there was an article written about comments made by one of our state senators (I think he was a senator anyway). I was more than a little annoyed by the things he had said. Somehow I was not very surprised though.

whowhatwhen

03-19-2012, 04:33 PM

I keep hearing about a CD echo chamber but I've yet to really see it, can you post some examples?

Don't get me wrong, sometimes we do need some constructive criticism and no one is suggesting this forum be 100% hugs and flowers either.
There are also horny *******s in and out of the closet, so that doesn't really matter IMO.

Except me, I'm as pure as the driven snow. *halo*

Kate Simmons

03-19-2012, 08:17 PM

I honestly don't pay that much attention to the negativity Hon. Their problem, not mine.:)

Eryn

03-19-2012, 09:46 PM

Even then, Tri-Ess groups are only a small percentage of all the TG groups throughout this country and others. Here's a list of Tri-Ess chapters in the states. There are only 30 of them!!! :p

Even less. For example, the Alpha Chapter (the mother chapter of the entire organization) is now just a mailing list with no planned events. Their web site is still there but hasn't been updated in years. Ironically, one of the 2010 news articles on the site talks about the Chicago "Chi Chapter" being decertified because they had decided to become more inclusive. The Chi chapter appears to be still going strong despite their ouster: http://www.chi-chapter.org/

JessHaust

03-19-2012, 10:13 PM

I see so many posts about "If they only knew", well let them know! I walk around every day being a good example for TG folks and I guarantee if every CD came out and said, "hey you know what? I dig wearing women's clothes" the attitude of the general public would change almost overnight. I see a lot of complaining around here about "them" and I see very little desire to make a change. To BE the change. I also see lots of advice from closet queens and that is just something I can't abide.s

Hear, hear, never have such truth been written on this forum!

FurPus63

03-19-2012, 10:30 PM

I had sort of a negative experience last night when someone "clocked" me and made an a** out of themselves. The thing is this person assumed I am gay, and that's what bothered me. I need to let go of it though and am trying to remember it doesn't matter what others think only what I think counts.

Paulette

whowhatwhen

03-19-2012, 10:31 PM

RIGHT ON!
I'll just tell my family who could

a) Forever see me differently
b) See me as broken
c) Be disgusted
d) Shun me

For right now, they're all I have and you could say I owe them my life.
If I lose them I lose everything, but hey, if the internet says it's no big deal...

Yeap, you heard them.
No matter what your situation is, no matter how complicated, you must come out and risk it all to appease the internet.

When you're ready? What kind of BS is that?

FurPus63

03-19-2012, 10:49 PM

This is what I"m talking about. As a man, I never had anyone laugh or make rude comments to me, not since I was in elementary school! Now I'm getting the rude comments, stares, looks, etc... and sometimes I think, "what am I doing this for?" I also am aware that we are hated more than any other social group including gays and lesbians. The "T" at the end of L.G.B.T. is IMO the most hated group amongst American males. Anyone disagree? Therefore; we have to be more careful than the average GG. Yes there are A-holes all over the place, but they seem to feel it's ok to be that way towards us TG Woman than any other group. That's what makes me angry and scared most of the time. But I don't let my fears overcome me and/or stop me from being "myself" and presenting as a woman out and about in the world.

Paulette

AllieSF

03-19-2012, 11:08 PM

Badtranny

03-19-2012, 11:18 PM

What kind of BS is that?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I make a comment about not complaining unless you're working for the change and that is somehow interpreted as an attack. I would never suggest that anyone come out unless or until they are ready to do so, but if your are NOT prepared to stand proud then please do not complain about how un-accepting the world is. If the only CD's they see are the so called "bad examples" then show them something different. Show them a perfectly normal and well adjusted man who just happens to play dress up every now and then. Or a regular straight dude who just happens to be into feminine fashions. So many of you assert yourselves as manly men who "know how to handle themselves", well then stand up for yourself. Why is a femmy bottom girl like me not scared of other dudes, but the macho guys are acting like scared little girls, while they talk the big talk.

Or you could stay in the closet and act horrified and persecuted when a loudmouth like me calls you out on your BS. P.S. I don't mean YOU specifically, but you and yours generally.

Bree-asaurus

03-19-2012, 11:22 PM

FurPus I have to disagree. Hate is a strong word when used in our situation. I think that most know nothing about us and if anything think that we are odd and maybe weird. I also believe that probably the ones that dislike us,l less than hate, are probably in the minority when compared to the ones who just don't know us. I know I may have different experiences than you do, but I definitely do not see the hate that you do and I have been out dressed in the Detroit suburbs a few times.

I don't think it's hate... I think it's misunderstanding and maybe a little of their own repression going on...

When I was young, I would mock gays... while being with a guy myself. Look at all the politicians who are anti-gay and then you find out... wait a minute... they like the penis!

whowhatwhen

03-19-2012, 11:48 PM

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I make a comment about not complaining unless you're working for the change and that is somehow interpreted as an attack. I would never suggest that anyone come out unless or until they are ready to do so, but if your are NOT prepared to stand proud then please do not complain about how un-accepting the world is. If the only CD's they see are the so called "bad examples" then show them something different. Show them a perfectly normal and well adjusted man who just happens to play dress up every now and then. Or a regular straight dude who just happens to be into feminine fashions. So many of you assert yourselves as manly men who "know how to handle themselves", well then stand up for yourself. Why is a femmy bottom girl like me not scared of other dudes, but the macho guys are acting like scared little girls, while they talk the big talk.

Or you could stay in the closet and act horrified and persecuted when a loudmouth like me calls you out on your BS. P.S. I don't mean YOU specifically, but you and yours generally.

Honestly, I don't really care either way about anything but the closet shaming.
There are legit reasons to be in there and in time they will be broken down when they are ready, not when their fears or situation is handwaved away.

Allow me to bow down to your bravery and fortitude, but everyone being so vastly different doesn't make it easy in every situation.
The last line of that earlier post wasn't meant as an attack though, so, eh.

Edit:
What BS specifically?
I never seen anyone claiming to be a closet CD claim descrimination here, unless I'm skipping those threads?

docrobbysherry

03-20-2012, 12:56 AM

The fact is, many of the vanilla public think guys dressed up as women must be GAY PERVERTS!:doh: Which is patently unfair! Maybe I'm a perv, but MOST OF U ARENT!:)
I'm not gay, but that doesn't bother me. The way I look, I'll never get hit on!:heehee:

If u can PASS, MOST folks won't notice u if u dress to BLEND!:straightface:

But, if you're like me, I pass and blend like a horse in a china shop! So, I get FLACK when I'm out!:sad:

It's been said here, if u have CONFIDENCE it doesn't matter if you're made. :brolleyes:
Well, I'll NEVER be THAT CONFIDENT!

So, I have a choice. Either put up with the crap or stay at home.
Rite now, I'm working on changing MY ATTITUDE toward vanilla folks. Because I can't control or change theirs!

Contessa

03-20-2012, 01:52 AM

Michelia

03-20-2012, 08:12 AM

What negativity? Have I been missing something? I probably have...come to think of it. I wonder why? Mabye it's because I step out the door with a smile on my face everyday and walk in wherever I want still wearing my smile. And people smile back. So I guess I am not seeing the negative part. Thank goodness!

Discrimination and Human Rights aside (which I am involved in as well, but that is another story), the negativity I see emanates from a lot of CDs (including a lot of my friends) that think the minute they step out in the world some kind of calamity will envelope them. If you go out and put your best food forward, you will slowly be instrumental in changing people's attitudes. It is a given. It will also change the way you view the world.

But the reality is most people out there are not out to get you. Yes, there are the Rush Limbaughs of the world and a few negative people out there, but they are not that many.

Please do not let the 1% out there rule your life and your perspective.

Marleena

03-20-2012, 08:39 AM

I'm going to say that everyone is correct that confidence is biggest part of being out. I have been going out more and more of late and I haven't had any problems. But I think there is another part that is almost the same size phase of being out. It is looking your best, as you must realize that you are representing a very special group. Women, GG's and/or girls, these beautiful beings are part of the public too. I admire them so much and want to represent as best I can I try to look good and so should everyone else who wants to emulate them. I don't think you'll have to much problem though Marleena in your avatar, just try smiling a lot while you are out.

Tess

Thanks Tess! And everybody that replied.:) I have been out a couple times dressed with no reactions. I have booked 3 days enfemme in Vegas next month. I didn't really post this to get other girls out there though. It's a personal choice for everybody.

The big issue is some of the attitudes from the general public. You know the religious hate groups and anti TG websites. There are politicians blocking and speaking out against TG related bills. Then the nasty comments in TG news articles. I hope it's a minority. Fact is since we are TG we notice this stuff more than the general public would.

The pleasant surprise is that some of you girls aren't seeing this while out and about.:)

Badtranny

03-20-2012, 08:43 AM

Honestly, I don't really care either way about anything but the closet shaming.
There are legit reasons to be in there and in time they will be broken down when they are ready, not when their fears or situation is handwaved away.
Edit:
What BS specifically?
I never seen anyone claiming to be a closet CD claim descrimination here, unless I'm skipping those threads?

I'm not shaming those in the closet. I've said over and over that people have every right to be there and some even have good reasons. I'm specifically talking about negativity and the act of harvesting it. If you sow negative energy than that is what you will reap, and as far as I can tell, pretty much ALL of the CD's on this board are closeted except for a very tiny minority. The girls that are out and proud don't seem to complain much about the state of acceptance. They know what's going on because they get out and experience it. It hurts my heart to see that we scatter back into our holes like roaches when faced with exposure. Like we're doing something wrong or there is something wrong with us. I am proud to be a T-girl. I have earned my right to hold my head up and I will not be pushed back into the closet or try and pretend the closet is a desirable place to be.

This thread is about experiencing negativity to TG folks in the world and on this board. I posted the idea that it's not so bad out there and maybe more people should work on being proud of who they are instead of dwelling on the possible or perceived negativity. In regard to this forum, there is some here as well, but again it mostly depends on what you're looking for because to some people MY posts would be considered negative. I obviously don't think so, but if you are in a place where you are offended by constructive criticism than there is not a whole lot I can do about that.

I still say that if everyone came out, Gay, CD, Bi, whatever, if EVERYONE stopped hiding, then we would experience another age of enlightenment.

whowhatwhen

03-20-2012, 08:45 AM

Aye, seems I got a bit defensive...

*slinks out of thread*

Katesback

03-20-2012, 09:27 AM

Badtranny its a waste of time babe. See just like the TS girls the ones that are in the closet have 1000 excuses for being there. They totally ignore the fact that countless people have come before them and survived. They use this most amayzing excuse which is that they feel thier situation is so spectacularly unique. You know how many times I have sat in counseling a trans person and herd this one. Oh well its all cool with me.

I do have to ask you a question. Did you say earlier that the guys that hit on you tend to be CDs? If so I am interested because outside of trans related events I am not aware of a CD having hit on me in the normal world. If I were to use the though process some here use I would say to myself since it has not happened to me your experiences can be discounted and I will suggest your experiences are an exaduration.

Ok well I was joking because I know exactly what your talking about because I have herd the same thing from other TS girls.

I wanted to ask you if you could expand on why you think CDs hit on TS girls. Could you tell us the conversations you had with them?

As I said in real life this has not happened to me but in trans events ohhhhh yes many times.

I have some ideas what the conversations are about but I will wait for you to respond to see if I am accurate.

Katie

PS I have been saying the same thing about the fact that many sit and complain about the perception of CDs in the real world but then are unwilling to do anything to effect change.

whowhatwhen

03-20-2012, 09:34 AM

Badtranny its a waste of time babe. See just like the TS girls the ones that are in the closet have 1000 excuses for being there. They totally ignore the fact that countless people have come before them and survived.

Please, tell me more about how no one has lost everything coming out :daydreaming:

It's also going to be different for a CD since we don't need to come out either.
Ahh damnit, I have no willpower to keep away from these...

Marleena

03-20-2012, 09:41 AM

*Sigh* Sometimes I feel like I'm going back to grade school again lately. There is this one bully that goes around poking everybody. But the bully is really sneaky and smart and the teachers can't catch them in the act. She stalks this one person especially, for fun.

So the mods being the teachers here have to lock the thread because they can't prove the bully is doing anything wrong.:)

whowhatwhen

03-20-2012, 09:44 AM

No don't close it, I literally have nothing better to do.

Asche

03-20-2012, 10:01 AM

There doesn't seem to be a lot of negativity in the general public.
Some members of the TG community can be their own worst enemy, either by embarrassing themselves publicy through their own actions or breeding fear to justify their own choices.
Same here. I have encountered virtually no negativity in RL, and a fair amount of positive feedback (I generally count the horn-beeps when people drive by as being at least intended as positive :) ) I also get some people who are simply curious about why I dress as I do. If I would complain at all, it would be that nobody seems to care! (Boo hoo! I get all dressed up and nobody notices!)

The only places I have encountered any significant amount of negativity have been here, and (to a lesser extent) in a previous "non-standard fashion" board. My own theory about this (for what theories are worth) is that it's due to internalized misogyny. (There's an awful lot of sexism and some obvious misogyny floating around in both places.)

ReineD

03-20-2012, 12:42 PM

I walk around every day being a good example for TG folks and I guarantee if every CD came out and said, "hey you know what? I dig wearing women's clothes" the attitude of the general public would change almost overnight.

Melissa, I disagree with you. This is not true for most people. First, there are not enough CDers in terms of the total population to have it be mainstream. Even if everyone came out all at once, their numbers would still be too few to make any difference. And as much progress as the gay community has achieved since the 70s, there are still many pockets of our society that keep their distance from gay men, to put it mildly. It is even worse for TGs since transgenders are still pathologized in the DSM. Yes, it would be helpful if more identity CDers went out in the next town over but they are still taking chances. AND ... they need the cooperation of their wives else doing this adds yet another layer of complexity.

More importantly, I think we need to approach this on several fronts, two of which are activism and also through early and continuous education in schools about gender and sexual non-conformity. We need to demystify it, or rather remove the negative religious and sexual connotations. Also, you live in the San Francisco area and you are gay, so I'm guessing that your backyard is not typical of most other members here. My SO and I live in a small town in the midwest. We do go out in neighboring towns and we do our bit to be out and proud among people who do not know us, but there would be consequences for her (and me) privately and also professionally should everyone in our lives know that she also has a feminine gender identity. It is easier for strangers who will never see us again to be tolerant (at least at face value) than employers, close family members, or some friends. I can well imagine a CDer being reluctant to come out to his little daughter's school-friends' parents.

In other words, until society is "there" in terms of understanding and acceptance, how is the average CDer to deal with the fallout in his personal life should he/she come out to everyone the way a TS must in order to maintain her sanity?

Badtranny its a waste of time babe. See just like the TS girls the ones that are in the closet have 1000 excuses for being there. They totally ignore the fact that countless people have come before them and survived. They use this most amayzing excuse which is that they feel thier situation is so spectacularly unique.

Waste of time? 1,000 excuses? Spectacularly unique? Your arrogance is spectacularly unique.

I believe you must have put me on "ignore" since you never respond to my comments to you, but I'll type them anyway. LOL

You do acknowledge, don't you, that it is possible to have a bona-fide feminine gender identity that is not a sexual fetish and without being a TS in denial, and that care must be taken when venturing forth in the real world because there are still real consequences for such TGs to come out to all and sundry in their personal lives?

Katesback

03-20-2012, 12:50 PM

Reine I dont respond to a lot of people.

Do I acknowledge that it is possible to have a feminie gender identity that is not a sexual fetish and without being a TS in denial?

Well sure, I have said many times that my comments, observations, ect. are not all encompassing. They refer to a lot of the CDs and other trans people.

ReineD

03-20-2012, 01:00 PM

Well sure, I have said many times that my comments, observations, ect. are not all encompassing. They refer to a lot of the CDs and other trans people.

I'm glad to hear this, thanks! :)

It's just that sometimes your posts seem arrogantly biased the other way. Maybe it's the way you choose to word things. And so it is easy for people to believe you are either bullying them or you persist in looking at the TG community through your own lens only.

Badtranny

03-20-2012, 01:31 PM

Melissa, I disagree with you.

What? I find that to be incredibly insulting and offensive. ;-)

You are right of course that there are SOME people who really have justifiable reasons for not coming out. I would be a fool to argue otherwise BUT since I have crossed the rainbow and seen the world from this side I can say that I know something that the closeted do not. It is no where near as bad as anyone imagines it. It does take guts and it takes an incredible amount of self possession but the truth is life is so much more wonderful on this side that I want ALL of my sisters and brothers to experience it.

I know that as a TS my coming out was not optional and I know that a CD does not need to, but there are some spectacular people that CD that I would love to see come out and own their identity. These people are strong enough and charismatic enough to pull off the "impossible", if they could just get past the idea that the world will end if they do it. I totally understand the idea that people will see you differently but that's really part of the problem that CD's create for themselves. The total compartmentalizing of two separate personae is not anywhere near self acceptance. If you act like a macho douchebag most of the time, than people will be understandably surprised and chatty if they find out you're in fact a bit of a dandy.

Many CD's are so embarrassed about who they are that they can't help but be kind of secretive and creepy about it. You know, there's a lot of space between being closeted and being OUT. How about speaking out in defense of trans people and trans issues? If you don't want to openly CD, then support the local arts community by going to shows and developing friendships with people who are outwardly different. I know these closeted types try very hard to suppress any interest that might "give them away". Stop doing that. The first step to self acceptance is to stop being ashamed of your interests. Only when you are comfortable admitting to your guy friends that you like something that might be perceived as girly are you on the road to accepting yourself for who you are.

If you spend some time on that road you will find that it always leads right out of the closet. I've never said coming out is easy, I've only said it was worthwhile.

Badtranny

03-20-2012, 01:35 PM

PS I have been saying the same thing about the fact that many sit and complain about the perception of CDs in the real world but then are unwilling to do anything to effect change.

Yes you have, but with all due respect, most people have a hard time seeing what your saying through the tone of your posts.

One thing I do like about your posts is how kind and gentle I look in comparison. ;-)

ReineD

03-20-2012, 01:52 PM

Melissa, I'll use my SO as an example of identity CDers (or bigenders, or dualgenders, or TGs, or whatever other noun we choose to use). She is not embarrassed, nor is she secretive to the point of paranoia about it. We do leave her home fully dressed, although if the neighbor is in the front yard she'll wait for him to go inside. Nor is she a macho douchebag when she dresses. lol

Rather, she is all too aware of the fallout at work (and her parents who are in their 70s, and my sons) should this be known and so she has needed to balance (not compartmentalize) her dualgender nature carefully. She also acknowledges her male self and she knows the world experiences angst when confronted with feminine men, let alone men who like to take it one step further and present fully as a woman, because their nature is a combination of both. I rather think most of the world is more ready to accept a woman who is totally a woman (who used to be a man), once transition has been accomplished. There's no conflict there. Or maybe not. There must be a reason why many TSs seek FFS and go stealth.

But, this is not my SO's path. She needs to deal with a blended gender and this is what society simply does not understand. They still very much see it as a perversion and insist that gender is binary. Not everyone, but enough people in our personal lives to cause negative consequences. We don't care what people outside our personal lives think. This is why we go out in the next towns over.

Edit
I would so welcome living in a society that truly accepted men who chose to present a feminine version of themselves. Can you imagine living in a world where a man could be sensitive and pretty, feel sensitive and pretty, could easily incorporate traditional female ornament since his/her exterior would then be a truer reflection of who she/he is inside, and not be looked down upon?

But, this is difficult for many traditional people to take in, just as difficult as it is for them to personally and professionally know a man who dresses, whom they define as male (vs. female since most people have no concept of a blend), and accept the blend without assigning any preconceived notion of what this is.

Yes, there are totally liberal people (I am one of them) who do not discriminate from the heart and not just at face value. But I rather believe this is rare, at least this is my conclusion based on conversations I've had with friends and family.

Jeninus

03-20-2012, 02:03 PM

This thread has morphed from Marleena's original thought regarding the negativity she perceives as being the lot of TG people to the pros and cons of coming out of the closet. Katesback has expressed the view here and elsewhere that many, if not most CDs are actually TSs who are afraid to come out of the closet. Further, she has also suggested that many CDs are, in effect, also closeted bisexuals who would and will hit on other CDs or TSs for sexual gratification. This has raised a storm of protest from CDs who reject the notion. Others are concerned that such "information" being put out on this thread and others could cause families to break up when GG SOs, who are in a very delicate relationship with their CD spouses or SOs should read this stuff on the threads. It will only intensify the stress and anxiety in those families. Probably most CDs on this site would find climbing into bed with a guy to be such a stomach-churning event that they would never do it...dressed or not.

I recently posted a thread on this site that Nigella moved to the TS site for policy reasons. It asked TSs to tell us how transition has affected their lives and what advice they would give young people at the crossroad of their lives, whether to go down the transition road or not.

So far, 121 have viewed it but not ONE of our brave TSs have shared their life's experiences. I would think many of the 121 viewers are CDs or SOs looking for this information. Of course it's not scientific, it's anecdotal, but it is the best real information that could be available to any of us. I hope that Katesback and Badtranny might take up the challenge and give us some of the benefit of their experience.

ReineD

03-20-2012, 02:35 PM

So far, 121 have viewed it but not ONE of our brave TSs have shared their life's experiences. I would think many of the 121 viewers are CDs or SOs looking for this information. Of course it's not scientific, it's anecdotal, but it is the best real information that could be available to any of us. I hope that Katesback and Badtranny might take up the challenge and give us some of the benefit of their experience.

I'll make your invitation official by posting the link here:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?171075-To-Our-TS-Friends-Please-tell-us-how-your-lives-have-been-affected-by-Transition&highlight=

I'd like to remind members who identify strictly as CD and who have not transitioned to not respond, in order to comply with our Specific Posting Requests rule:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/faq.php?faq=specific#faq_spec_post_poll

However, since it is impossible to establish a hard and fast division between TS and CD (in many cases it is a process), I rather believe that many people who straddle the two can respond, even if they've transitioned partially (at least in exterior appearances) by presenting feminine to family, friends, and/or at work.

... and now, back to our regular programming. Please do not respond to Jeninus' thread here.

Tamara Croft

03-20-2012, 02:38 PM

Administrator Posting

I get sick and tired of the TS v's CD's on this very board, even in this very thread you can see it and to be quite honest, I'm bloody fed up with it. So I'll tell you what I think shall I? If I see anymore arguing or bloody bickering, he said/she said :BS: between the two groups, then there is going to be concequences. If you value your membership here, then I suggest you play nice, because quite frankly this us v's them mentality is getting old!

Badtranny

03-20-2012, 03:29 PM

This thread has morphed from Marleena's original thought regarding the negativity she perceives as being the lot of TG people to the pros and cons of coming out of the closet.

Only superficially because I believe the root of the negativity begins in our own community. RD's well stated points notwithstanding, I think there are many things a CD can do to get the wheels of change rolling without actually coming out to the public. Coming out to select friends is a good start. Being an openly supportive friend to a TG person who HAS come out. Defending TG or gay people when your neanderthal friends make rude comments. Even these things though are anathema to those that have yet to accept who they are. Listen the negativity starts in your own heart. What you see in the rest of the world is largely based on your own perspective. If you are ashamed, then people will be ashamed of you. A timid and fearful person is almost inviting aggression from the ignorant among us. It is entirely possible to be proud of who you are without announcing that to the world. Imagine if you won the lottery but you were unable to say anything for a year. You would be happy, excited, content, and looking forward to your future and you wouldn't have to say a thing for people to notice the difference in your attitude. This is what it's like when you have accepted yourself for who you are. For me, it's like winning the lotto every time I don't have to pretend I like girls. I'm thrilled every time I can openly flirt with a cute bartender, or when a hot guy walks by and I watch him the whole way right in front of the straight friends that I was trying to fool just a few months ago. There is no amount of money that would be worth not being proud of who I am.

The negativity you find is the same that you were seeking.

whowhatwhen

03-20-2012, 04:20 PM

One thing keeps coming up though, where specifically Kate mentioned seeing 'TS Issues' in the CD forum?
The thread was modded a bit but the examples were hormones and dating men but I've not seen any examples here.

Note: I'm not trying to start a war here, I'm purely curious about what others are seeing.
Posting mood: Lighthearted, honestly!

Honestly though, I do greatly respect and admire those of you brave enough to live your lives and not care what others think.
You're more inspirational than you think, and that others will let on.

They'll find their way out of the closet eventually.
:P

Badtranny

03-20-2012, 04:55 PM

Honestly though, I do greatly respect and admire those of you brave enough to live your lives and not care what others think.
You're more inspirational than you think, and that others will let on.
They'll find their way out of the closet eventually.
:P

Thank you, and all my blabbing is just me trying to BE the change. It's one thing to be a good example to the "normal" people out there but the other part is to come to the choir and preach about what I've seen. I promise you that those of us who have seen the other side are not looking for props or kudos. I don't need the approval of the "community" and I guarantee you the same goes for Kait, or Bree, or April, or Melody, or any of my outspoken sisters. We are here to share what we've learned and to give back some of what we got when we were still on the edge ourselves. I mean come on, I only began this journey in 2010! I'm a babe in the woods compared to some of the girls on this board, not to mention so much younger and more delicate. (couldn't resist).

I can only hope that my words can inspire someone to find themselves the way others inspired me. There is nothing more glorious than living an authentic life. Nothing.

Foxglove

03-20-2012, 05:21 PM

Listen the negativity starts in your own heart. What you see in the rest of the world is largely based on your own perspective. . .
The negativity you find is the same that you were seeking.

Melissa, I think you're making some good points here. You're trying to be upbeat and encouraging, and I don't want to discourage you from doing that. I appreciate people trying to encourage me, because quite frankly I'm a chronic worrier.

However, I don't think we can ignore the fact that there is some real negativity out there. It's not in my heart, it's not just my perspective, and it's certainly not something that I would go seeking.

Just recently, e.g., there was a story on the net about a five-year-old boy who was identified as TG and who now, with her parents approval, is living as a girl. Some of the comments below that story were absolutely vicious. My favorite one was the woman who said, "My dog thinks he's human". That was her reply to the question, "How could a boy think he's a girl?" When people are comparing us to dogs, that's a sort of negativity that's objective, not just my perception.

Now I personally am still in the early days of trying to figure out where I want to go. I'm very happy to listen to you and learn from your experience, because you've got worlds of it, and I've got none. But I do think it makes sense to note that there is some very real negativity and hostility out there. I do need to be realistic about what I'm facing. Basically, for the first time in my life probably I'd like to do something smart, so I do plan to look before I leap.

Best wishes, Annabelle.

Anna Lorree

03-20-2012, 05:22 PM

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I make a comment about not complaining unless you're working for the change and that is somehow interpreted as an attack. I would never suggest that anyone come out unless or until they are ready to do so, but if your are NOT prepared to stand proud then please do not complain about how un-accepting the world is. If the only CD's they see are the so called "bad examples" then show them something different. Show them a perfectly normal and well adjusted man who just happens to play dress up every now and then. Or a regular straight dude who just happens to be into feminine fashions. So many of you assert yourselves as manly men who "know how to handle themselves", well then stand up for yourself. Why is a femmy bottom girl like me not scared of other dudes, but the macho guys are acting like scared little girls, while they talk the big talk.

Or you could stay in the closet and act horrified and persecuted when a loudmouth like me calls you out on your BS. P.S. I don't mean YOU specifically, but you and yours generally.

I know the reason, and I will say it; loss of male privilege. The other reason is fear of the unknown, in other words what will we (I'm still wrestling with this myself) lose if we come out? I am out to my wife, my therapist and one old friend from high school. Another reason I'm not out is that my wife fears the same things I do, and fears losing respect "as a woman" for having married a man who wants to be a woman. I sincerely want to come further out in the future, but with a wife and children involved, it is not entirely my choice because it effects them as well as me. If I had accepted what I was before getting married... That is my great regret with regard to this.

All that said, you are absolutely right. It is like the Gay Rights movement, homosexuals didn't start getting respect until they stopped hiding. CD/TG/TS people won't gain respect until we stop hiding, which means pulling on our Big Girl panties and telling the world that we want to play or even be a girl.

Anna

ReineD

03-20-2012, 05:29 PM

Only superficially because I think there are many things a CD can do to get the wheels of change rolling without actually coming out to the public. Coming out to select friends is a good start. Being an openly supportive friend to a TG person who HAS come out. Defending TG or gay people when your neanderthal friends make rude comments.

Yes, yes, and yes. :) I might even add joining a TG support group even if it means changing on the premises the night of the meeting. My SO began by doing this until she was confident enough to be out and about in the mainstream everywhere (in the next towns over). There are ways for CDers to express themselves without having to be out to parents, bosses, their church communities, their children's friends parents, etc.

The trouble with an expression like "coming out of the closet" is, unless someone is specific as Melissa above, it is too easy for closeted members to misconstrue it as meaning they should be as "out" to their communities as transitioning or transitioned TSs. :)

Foxglove

03-20-2012, 05:30 PM

I know the reason, and I will say it; loss of male privilege.

Anna

That wouldn't be my reason, Anna.

Annabelle

kimdl93

03-20-2012, 05:36 PM

...

All that said, you are absolutely right. It is like the Gay Rights movement, homosexuals didn't start getting respect until they stopped hiding. CD/TG/TS people won't gain respect until we stop hiding, which means pulling on our Big Girl panties and telling the world that we want to play or even be a girl.

Anna

I do see a direct analogy with gay rights. As long as we're fully in the closet then the stereotyping continues unchallenged and people assume it's OK. I agree that "out" cantbe the same, at least initially, for each of us. But thoseof us who begin to come out help overcome the prejudices we all face...one person at a time.

whowhatwhen

03-20-2012, 05:44 PM

I'm also going to disagree with male priviledge, all I have to do is look how much my mom gave up to know just how coddled men really are. And the nerve of some of them to say THEY are the ones who are under attack! RAAAAAGE!

You need LOTS of trust to come out to someone, some of us may not have anyone we trust enough to confide in.
Personally it makes me quite sad that IRL I deal with this all within myself, but judging from the few experiments I did I cannot guarantee finding any family support.
One day though, I know I'll figure it out and be able to be out and pass on the same things you all are doing now.

Badtranny

03-20-2012, 05:46 PM

Just recently, e.g., there was a story on the net about a five-year-old boy who was identified as TG and who now, with her parents approval, is living as a girl. Some of the comments below that story were absolutely vicious. My favorite one was the woman who said, "My dog thinks he's human". That was her reply to the question, "How could a boy think he's a girl?" When people are comparing us to dogs, that's a sort of negativity that's objective, not just my perception.

...but Annabelle you're making my point. What you see on the internet is only what you IMAGINE is outside your front door. There are indeed some awful people out there (Santorum anyone?) but only a select few miscreants will actually say anything to you in person. The internet is chock full of cowards and blowhards, and fakes and just because some hag compares a 5 year old little girl to a dog does not mean that she or anyone would confront you. The truth is she would likely be polite to you and then yak up a storm about it with her old biddy girlfriends later that night.

Also, I am not suggesting that people come out and ruin their lives. I know it may seem that way but alas I can only wish I was still that naive. I am suggesting however that every CD take a good hard look at themselves and how they live their life. Self acceptance just rolls off of my tongue but I know for a fact that it is one of the most difficult things we will ever do. It is near impossible in fact but a good start is to begin openly accepting others. I don't mean in private with your inner circle only. I mean standing up for the TG person when you hear old biddy bidderton say something to her pal. Or speaking up when your buddies are bagging on the gay brother of one of their wives. There are a million opportunities for us to change the world without letting on our true nature. The problem is so many closeted CD's are too willing to stay quiet or even join in so they can maintain their cloak of invisibility. Did it ever occur to anyone that the wigs and dresses and makeup might be the disguise we use to hide from ourselves? How many CD's would rather stay home than be seen in drab by their CD friends?

Be strong enough to at least accept others and soon you will be able to accept yourself. When you truly accept yourself you will begin looking for ways to come out instead of looking for excuses not to.

AllieSF

03-20-2012, 07:50 PM

BadTranny: "Imagine if you won the lottery but you were unable to say anything for a year. You would be happy, excited, content, and looking forward to your future and you wouldn't have to say a thing for people to notice the difference in your attitude."

Those words ring very true to me. As a very late starter I went from zero to out in the real world in a very short few months. My main obstacle to not going out sooner was the lack of a good sidekick who could ride shotgun during my first steps. I really knew nothing about this trip when I was first embarking on it 5 years ago. I can say now, my main advantages over most other CD's still struggling to leave the house include my age and hopefully corresponding maturity, a successful bout with cancer that helped me better appreciate that old saying "Live each day as if it is your last", living in a very diversity accepting and tolerating location, and probably my ability to look at things pragmatically (thanks Mom) and logically (thanks engineering education). I have learned through life experiences good and bad to only really worry about that which I can do something about.

Now, back to Melissa's words. Ever since I started this unquestionably and accepted that this was part of my life whether I wanted it or not, I live those words almost every time I go out when I pause for a moment of wonder to wonder in amazement that I am a man dressed as a woman, trying to act like one, am out in the real world talking to complete strangers and really having one of the best repeatable times of my life. Repeatable in the sense that some things are fantastic but will probably not be experienced very often, while me dressing up and out happens 1 - 2 times a week.

I know that a lot of society may have a negative view of what we are doing, but as Melissa said, the true chances for most of us to run into and experience that negativity is truly pretty small. The same can be said for the dangers of being out dressed a woman. Shit happens when we least expect it. With proper precautions and street smarts, it really comes down to that rare coincidence when all things, including some bad luck, come together at the same time, like the Perfect Storm.

When a lot of people here talk about coming out, I think in the context of this thread, it really means going out of the house into the real world. I am out in that sense, way out. However, I still have my safe "no Allie" zone and situations that I respect. None of my friends, family nor ex-work mates know, nor, more importantly, need to know at this time.

All this being said, my message here is that yes, there is negativity out in the real world, but, and it is a big but, you will probably never experience it on any large scale nor with potential dangerous consequences if those that never have gone out decide to experience the freedom of being yourself in front of complete strangers. My recommendation is that if you want to go out, plan for it, toughen up your emotional sensitive skin some, find a partner in crime and try it. You will definitely like it.

ReineD

03-20-2012, 11:36 PM

Did it ever occur to anyone that the wigs and dresses and makeup might be the disguise we use to hide from ourselves?

This is brilliant, Melissa. I agree

... even though you and I might assign different meanings to that statement. :)

When a lot of people here talk about coming out, I think in the context of this thread, it really means going out of the house into the real world. I am out in that sense, way out. However, I still have my safe "no Allie" zone and situations that I respect. None of my friends, family nor ex-work mates know, nor, more importantly, need to know at this time.

And thank you too, Allie, for being specific. It helps.

I've seen too many raging battles in this forum over "out" vs. "in", when each side didn't even bother defining what "out" means. CDs would take it they were being told they should out themselves to everyone they know, while the people encouraging going out meant just going out in the mainstream even if it was far enough away from home.

Foxglove

03-21-2012, 01:03 AM

...but Annabelle you're making my point. What you see on the internet is only what you IMAGINE is outside your front door. There are indeed some awful people out there (Santorum anyone?) but only a select few miscreants will actually say anything to you in person. The internet is chock full of cowards and blowhards, and fakes and just because some hag compares a 5 year old little girl to a dog does not mean that she or anyone would confront you. The truth is she would likely be polite to you and then yak up a storm about it with her old biddy girlfriends later that night.

I agree with this point, Melissa, and recently made it myself: the anti-TG crowd probably aren't as brave in face-to-face encounters as when they're safely anonymous on the net. So I'm not saying that I don't ever plan to get out. I'm just not pushing things, but rather looking at how to do it in my own way when I think the time is right.

Best wishes, Annabelle