Once started, about how long for the full transformation

[Pythos]

I did not know where to post this, I was thinking the Transexual section, but I did not want to violate any rules about posting in a specific section. Any how, for those that have gone through, or are going through SRS, about how long did the process take. Weeks? Months? Years?

I am curious because even though she is IS my GF is going to have bottom surgery. She has been saying she will be moving to Germany and may stay for months, or permanently. I am thinking that this is where she is going to have the surgery done.

I for one really hate how our stupid culture cannot accept that sex and gender are a spectrum, and subliminally forces people to have dangerous operations done upon them. I think she looks beautiful as is, and she is how God intended. But I also have no place preventing what she thinks needs to be done.

So my question circles around how long it will take.

[kimdl93]

I do think its appropriate to post this in the Transsexual section of the forum, but I'm sure you'll get many informed responses here. My only comment is that she's obviously been living with a need and commitment to make a full transition. I'm glad to hear that you're not going to stand in her way, despite your personal misgivings. This is her life, body and soul...and knows better than anyone if its the right next step for her. So, the question is, will you accompany her to Germany?

[Stephenie S]

A couple of points:

It's NOT a "dangerous" operation. At last no more so than any operation.

And it can take as long as you want it to. A year? Two years? Five years? I would say that 5 years is a pretty good estimation of a careful transition. But really, this is a very individualistic process.

And, dare I say it, you don't seem to be communicating very well with your GF if you have to come here to ask that question.

Now your specific question was "For those who are going through SRS, how long did the process take?" To be equally specific, it takes about three hours. Then a few weeks of recovery. Followed by a few months of feeling a bit less than 100%. I would say that 4 to 5 months should see you through the worst of it.

S

[Tamara Croft]

I did not know where to post this, I was thinking the Transexual section, but I did not want to violate any rules about posting in a specific section.There isn't a rule that says you can't post in this section, there is a rule about posting to specific questions asked to be only answered by specific people, so I moved your thread here where it should be :)

[Katesback]

Hormones begin and a year later SRS. One year after that FFS. Thats my story. I didnt waste time. I didnt go to a therapist. I didnt need to pay someone to agree with what I already knew.

Thats my story and for others the timeline varies. I have seen people who after 15 years they still talk about getting SRS and have in all respects not appeared to move forward. Its life I suppose.

Finally I am going to say something that few can understand unless you have had SRS. Transition begins AFTER you have SRS. I know you might not agree but then ask any post op girl and she will likely agree. Its when everything changes.

Katie

[Stephenie S]

I know this is an unpopular point of view, but Kate is right. Surgery changes everything.

S

[Pythos]

Thank you Tamara. I was just unsure, and did not want to upset anyone.

As to not communicating. Please believe me, I am trying to keep things open. She is the one that is not being specific. I don't even know if her reason for going to Germany is in fact to get the surgery.

All Surgeries are dangerous. I know of someone that went in for a knee surgery and died on the table due to a mess up on the part of the doc doing the operation.

That being said I was unsure how long the recovery process would take. She has been living as a female for going on 20 years or more. She has lived with the condition all her life. She has been on hormones for nearly all her life. This I got from her and verified though other sources.

Okay, so about half a year for the general recovery. Good, that is what I wanted to know. Thank you.

She has been hiding things, but lately has opened up, and I fully understand the reasoning for her hiding. Was it right? Hell no. Was it justified? In a way.

Now, would I move to Germany with her? If she continues on the path of truthfulness, and we work out, oh heck yes will I move with her. I just hope it is not for several years.

[kimdl93]

Pythos, I don't know all that's going on, but I'm glad you're able to let her find her own path. Very best wishes to both of you!

[Melody Moore]

I for one really hate how our stupid culture cannot accept that sex and gender are a spectrum, and subliminally forces people to have dangerous operations done upon them. I think she looks beautiful as is, and she is how God intended.
Pythos, you really should not blame society because some of us take a binary view with our sex & gender.

Society is not forcing anyone subliminally to have 'dangerous' operations. I have never felt right about my
male genitalia from a very early age & before I really understood gender identity. I always had an issue with
getting unwanted erections, so society has no part in my decision to have SRS at all. And as others have
said, SRS is NOT as dangerous operation, especially if you are going through a reputable surgeon.

Even though you say you cannot prevent her from doing what she needs to have done, I get the impression
from your post that you are not happy with her decision to have SRS. Will you be going to Germany with her?

[Kathryn Martin]

Again this is a question that is not necessarily should be answered in public it requires the commenters to reveal some personal information that maybe should not be public.

For me the process to get to post-op started February 2010 and ends May 8th, 2012.

[Beth-Lock]

In my case, 5 to 15 years, depending on what you count, and my transition is still going on.

[Pythos]

Well, I am not happy that she may be moving to Germany, and possibly out of my life, since my moving to Germany could ruin all I have worked on, as well as what she has here. I had a friend go through SRS (it went abnormally wrong, if you are wondering why I am asking on this forum), and she chose to move out of state to start a new life. In my GF's case there seemingly is no reason for her to start a new life, her life now is not that bad. She has a club she is in charge of, has a good web design job, and has lots of friends.

That being said, if she does not move for a few years, and we do work out as a couple....oh yes, I will move. Sorry, but you find the right one ery few times in life. She does feel right, despite the initial lies.

[Pythos]

Thank you Kateback for your response, it helped, as did all the others.

[EnglishRose]

Finally I am going to say something that few can understand unless you have had SRS. Transition begins AFTER you have SRS. I know you might not agree but then ask any post op girl and she will likely agree. Its when everything changes.


Perhaps framing it as Life beginning then, might help? Transition is not after, it's during, by its very definition, but in no way will I argue that eveything does not change then. I can only imagine it's to be able to simply BE and I look forward to when I can get my surgery and move on too.

[Katesback]

Pythos. You have to understand that surgery might be dangerous but damm I didnt care. I had to get that damm thing taken care of and hell if you die on the operating table you will never know! I am just saying I didnt care about the risk because the alternative was not an option.

I could be more precise and say that the big transition starts after SRS. Perhaps thats a slightly better way to put it. I didnt say it that way originally because I wanted to place emphasis on the fact. Finally a sad fact for many of us is that FFS also comes into play. FFS does a lot for many of us and it was the best money I ever spent.

Funny as I look back I spent more on my face than I did for SRS, BA, LIPO and the entire cost of the trip to Thailand! Go figure. This might be kind of funny but one thing I never did finish was facial hair. I had some laser but continued to shave till about six months ago when I started to tweeze my face. Seems to be working in some capacity.

[Inna]

what is "full transformation" is there such a thing?

[pamela_a]

what is "full transformation" is there such a thing?


Absolutely. IMHO it's when you reach the point in your life when you have finally moved past the "trans" part of it and you are now just a woman (or man for our F to M members). It is not the result of any particular procedure (although it can't be reached pre-op) and I would consider it a large part of the "big transition" to which Kate always refers.

To the OP. I first saw a therapist in Apr 09. Started HRT in July and was full time mid Aug. My name was changed and gender marker corrected in Feb 10. I had SRS in July 11. The only reason that took so long was it took me a while to save the money for it.

[Frances]

what is "full transformation" is there such a thing?

That is what I was wondering too. I started hair removal about 5 years ago and while my face is pretty much done, I am still having electrolysis on my body. I started HRT in December 2008. I had SRS 13 months ago. I don't need FFS, but I have small breasts. Some GG's have small breasts. Is their transformation not full? It's up to the individual when it is done or not, I guess.

Pythos, the spectrum thing is your interpretation of human identity and experience. Most people are comfortable with the binary and require a female body to go with their female mind.

All that said: Surgery changes everything!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

pythos I hope things work out.. my "process" took about 4 years..but frankly there is no physical reason for recovery from srs to be 2 months or so... she will be less than 100% for a LONG LONG time, but people go back to work 2 weeks after srs all the time.
i went to the Pride parade in philly 2 WEEKS after surgery in arizona...so that may give you an idea that its really not neccessary to convalesce forever

I want to chime in that your idea of how we are subliminally influenced......a non gender binary is good for you but it doesn't work for so many of us...

not all PEOPLE are gender binary.(as you point out)...but its not society that causes that us to want surgery, its us that causes us...we are female...i don't feel x% male and would not have had surgery if i felt otherwise

I'm a really good test case because my transition was going pretty well, and because of my kids and the health risks of being under anesthesia for so long, i was ambivalent about surgery...i actively wondered if i was doing the right thing..

After surgery however, it was transcendent in a way that is hard to put into words. I was very surprised and delighted by this... i recall trying to describe it to my therapist as "knowing that if all my clothes fell off, everyone would see me"...emphasis on ME..and it gave me a new confidence and appreciation of my identity that i didn't have...its theoretically possible that with time i could have achieved this without surgery but i don't think so..

your thoughts are a good example of how difficult it is as transsexuals to convince others that we are sound in our thinking..don't let those thoughts get in the way of your relationship if you continue forward with her...try to embrace her choice with the same confidence you have in your own gender identity..that might mean alot to her..

Btw..it works both ways.. as you tend wonder why we feel this way, i can't internalize how a person can't feel either male or female... just like you feel about us,

i know its true that people are GQ...my best friend in the world is GQ, but i tend think "its too bad society doesn't allow those gender queer people to express their true binary genders!!"

[Melody Moore]

Great post Kaitlyn,

I have always said that I don't know how people can live a double life of in dual genders, because I tried it for
a couple of years and it literally drove me insane. I was so guilt ridden and felt so horrible about myself I was
battling thoughts of suicide again. So starting my transition was never a choice for me - it was something I
HAD to do in order to survive. As Kaitlyn said Pythos, it is great if you can have a non binary gender identity
because it is a lot easier & cheaper than going through a total transition with SRS, FFS, BA etc. But society did
not make me feel that I needed to have these things, all this is something I need to align the mismatched parts
of my body with the rest of me and this is how I believe your girlfriend might also feel. I have tried everything
to live happily and the only way I can do that is if I can have all the surgeries I need to feel complete as a person.

As for feeling like your choices for a partner are very limited in life I don't believe that is true, and while you feel
that she is 'the one' for you I am starting to think otherwise because I think there might be so deeply seeded
trust issues after you just mentioned there has been lies in your relationship. It sounds to me like she is starting
to make plans for her life that don't include you and reading between the lines this sounds to me like it has a lot
to do with you trying to convince her to be a non binary gender identity which is something she obviously isn't.

Honestly Pythos if you want to be with a non binary person, then perhaps
you really are better off setting yourself free from her and starting again.

So I think you are looking for more answers and settlement here to a whole range of issues and not just how
long it will take for someone to fully transition. I also believe that transition still continues well after having SRS.

[Pythos]

I have always said that I don't know how people can live a double life of in dual genders, because I tried it for
a couple of years and it literally drove me insane. I was so guilt ridden and felt so horrible about myself I was
battling thoughts of suicide again.

So what exactly made you feel this way? Would you feel this way if instead of shunned you were fully accepted? What if you were in a culture where there WAS an accepted third sex, or second spirit (Native American culture being one)?

Honestly, I did not make this post to get chided about my views about gender binary, and gender spectrum, nor to be told I should drop her because of this. She lied because she wanted a better image than is true. Instead of a simple contractor position as a web page coder, she went with being a Google Exec. Instead of being the intersexed child of a local relator, she was the intersexed child of a wealthy German Aristocrat. (NOtE: NOT daughter, but intersexed) Yes it was wrong, and yes it hurt, but she is CORRECTING those fibs, and being truthful. She has also said to me when she has the operation SHE WANTS ME THERE with her. That sounds quite the opposite of someone planning on a life without me in it.

She told me last night the ONLY reason she feels the need to have the surgery done on her otherwise natural body is because "it has made life hard for me, I have been discriminated against for jobs because of my outward appearance and what I truly am WHICH IS BOTH!! In older cultures I would have been worshiped or revered as a Goddess/god. But for some reason how I look and what is between my legs controls whether or not I can have a decent f*&king living!"

Now does that sound like someone that willingly wants to become one sex, instead of staying how God meant them to be? My views of the whole spectrum thing ARE legit when it comes to her, cause she feels the same way.

Now, that being said, Some have answered my question concerning the length of time we are looking at her being out of action. There seems to be no reason for a move to Germany other than legal hurtles as well as cost. I also am getting assistance from a friend of mine that went though GRS, and hopefully she can give some legal counsel as well as referrals for my GF so that she does not need to go to Germany (my friend got her GRS here, and she is a lawyer in transgendered law, which I hope IS individuals will be covered)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

its ok...i certainly wasnt chiding you...just sharing my experience.. take care and good luck

if i was in a culture that was accepting of many genders, i'd still be who i am..

[Aprilrain]

Hmm? does she have a therapist? She might want to consider it since she doesn't seem to be wanting SRS for the right reasons. How does changing your genitalia affect your "outward appearance"? I highly doubt she has been asked to show her genitalia for a job interview. If the rest of her is masculine looking now she will still be masculine looking after SRS. Perhaps she might want to consider FFS to improve her ability to pass as female.

[Miranda-E]

the moving to germany part seems to be motivated by some other reason than the surgery itself.

where is her actual citizenship?
While resident and working visa can be done. it is MUCH easier when having the surgery done out of country to return to your country of origin with the medical
paperwork and clear up all the other paper issues before moving out of country, even temporarily.

I've known several people that had bottom surgery over a 2 week vacation, even though dilation postwork can take months one is not hospital bound.
Its not uncommon after FFS for someone to be out of action for months because the brusing can be serious and long lasting. but some people just live through it
and deal with it on the fly.

something still doesn't seem right though.




She told me last night the ONLY reason she feels the need to have the surgery done on her otherwise natural body is because "it has made life hard for me, I have been discriminated against for jobs because of my outward appearance and what I truly am WHICH IS BOTH!! In older cultures I would have been worshiped or revered as a Goddess/god. But for some reason how I look and what is between my legs controls whether or not I can have a decent f*&king living!"


It sounds like she wants an "F" on her ID more than she wants surgery. there are places in the US where an orchi, is concidered "enough" non reversible surgery to comply.
and some can get by emotionally with that. Many poorer trans have HAD to get by with a name change and that method.

[Pythos]

She is from the US, born and raised. She spent two years in Germany for trade school under a parent's help. As far as outward appearance. You are right, bottom surgery won't help that, she wants hips, and breasts of more size than she has (she lacks hips, and is a "small girl" up there)

This 20/20, episode shows an IS individual with the proportions she has. http://youtu.be/xv1yk2Va9qc.

My GF wants to present as a female, but her outward appearance is a mix, like this girl.

Thank you for the thing about the ID. My understanding is the road block for this is her Pop, who has threatened to drop her trust fund (wealthy family confirmed), if she does so. He hates what she is, but loves who she is. Kinda a funny way of showing love

[Melody Moore]

So what exactly made you feel this way? Would you feel this way if instead of shunned you were fully accepted? What if you were in a culture where there WAS an accepted third sex, or second spirit (Native American culture being one)?
It wouldn't matter, I would still detest my male junk, and many cultures did perform surgery on genitalia. So did
you forget all about the eunuchs? NEVER since I joined this forum have I tried to twist your mind into believing
you have to be binary in your gender. So I suggest that you STOP right there in trying to define what gender I
should be and after this comment I am convinced this is the basis of a major issue in your relationship with your
IS girlfriend. Your statements here do give me a much clearer picture & better understanding of the real issues.


Honestly, I did not make this post to get chided about my views about gender binary, and gender spectrum,
Noone is trying to belittle you here, I am sorry if my statements intimidate you, but I also believe that I have a better
understanding of this than most people on this forum because of my IS/Transsexual condition & I am sorry if what I
say intimidates you but there is no benefit in telling you the things you want to hear - you need to understand diverse
opinions & perspectives before you can ever know what is best. And nor did I ever tell you to drop her because of this.
I said what I did because I really don't believe that it is the end of love for you, if she does decide on a life without you.


She lied because she wanted a better image than is true. Instead of a simple contractor position as a web page coder, she went with being a Google Exec. Instead of being the intersexed child of a local relator, she was the intersexed child of a wealthy German Aristocrat. (NOtE: NOT daughter, but intersexed) Yes it was wrong, and yes it hurt, but she is CORRECTING those fibs, and being truthful.
So what if she lied? Many of us lie and try to cover up when we have internalised & repressed our issues. But this
seems to be something of a major issue for you - SHE IS NOT HAPPY as an intersex person who I understand may
also have ambiguous or mismatched genitalia and it is time you respected and accepted that. But you appear to be
still trying to define who she should be even though she has told the truth. If someone tried to do that to me then
you would not see me for the dust as I was leaving their sad & sorry arse behind to start my new life without them.


She has also said to me when she has the operation SHE WANTS ME THERE with her. That sounds quite the opposite of someone planning on a life without me in it.
It sounds to me like your girlfriend really loves you, but as Miranda points out there is another reason
there why she wants to be in Germany that I don't really understand what that motivation might be.
Sounds like she still has hope & you can work through this, but you need to also respect & support her
decisions regardless how irrational her reasoning may be because only she knows what is right for herself.


She told me last night the ONLY reason she feels the need to have the surgery done on her otherwise natural body is because "it has made life hard for me, I have been discriminated against for jobs because of my outward appearance and what I truly am WHICH IS BOTH!! In older cultures I would have been worshiped or revered as a Goddess/god. But for some reason how I look and what is between my legs controls whether or not I can have a decent f*&king living!"

Now does that sound like someone that willingly wants to become one sex, instead of staying how God meant them to be?

My views of the whole spectrum thing ARE legit when it comes to her, cause she feels the same way.
Once again... So what about her reasons? and noone is saying for one second that you views about the gender
spectrum are not legit. But the thing you must realise is that it is not for you or anyone else to define where they
should be on that spectrum, what treatments & surgeries they need or don't need. You are NOT the expert here
and neither am I. The most informed person about what your girlfriend needs really are is your girlfriend herself!!!

Based on the reasoning you posted I too might even say that it could be a bad decision, but I also realise that this
might not be the entire 100% truth. Maybe something has been lost here in the communication, and we can only go
by what you tell us. But the truth is I never base my opinions on anything around the hearsay of others because the
truth is often distorted. There are three side to every story, your side, her side and the truth which lies in between.
So one has to always make enough room & some allowances for that by always being a bit sceptical & objectionable.

IS/Transsexuals are often very confused in their emotions and their reasoning and this is why they really should
see a therapist. However I did not need a therapist or a doctor ever to work out that I am IS/Transsexual & that
I need surgery to correct my birth defects, is all they did was confirmed what I already knew about myself anyway.
Doctors help me in my transition with my hormone regime & my therapist is there for any other issues I might face.

Unless your girlfriend is still a child I am sure she is old enough to work things out and make her own decisions, but I
get the feeling that you are trying to influence her & talk her out of it because you feel she is immature in her decision.
So when you talk about being treated as a child, then who is really treating who as a child in your relationship? Hmmm?

I don't think that being questioned, challenged & treated like a child is helping your relationship. And I cannot help but
feel after all I have learnt about you and your relationship that if you are not careful you might drive her away because
I can see very clearly now her decisions to have surgery and go to Germany really is something of an issue with you.


Now, that being said, Some have answered my question concerning the length of time we are looking at her being out of action. There seems to be no reason for a move to Germany other than legal hurtles as well as cost. I also am getting assistance from a friend of mine that went though GRS, and hopefully she can give some legal counsel as well as referrals for my GF so that she does not need to go to Germany (my friend got her GRS here, and she is a lawyer in transgendered law, which I hope IS individuals will be covered)
Sorry to tell you this Pythos, but I believe you are wrong to say there is no reason for your girlfriend to go to Germany.
It also appears to me that you are trying to take over & control every aspect of her life from what you just said. She has
her reasons & should really be speaking for herself here & you should be very careful NOT be seen as speaking for her.
And this is why I also think you should be very careful or she just might end up seeing you as some type of 'control freak'.

And the statement & questioning about how long "she will be out of action" really blows me away
because I would then have to say "As long as it takes, so can't you wait that long or something?".
Not a very good statement to show me how you really respect and value your partner.

I am sorry to have to say that to you, but it seems that you don't want to see this from any other perspective
other than your own. Really you have no right to be trying to get into her head & influence her gender identity
what surgeries she needs & how she wishes to express herself because I believe that is overstepping boundaries.
I am not saying that you are really a 'control freak' but there are some things in your statements which are reason
for concern because they could easily be interpreted by others including your girlfriend as controlling type behaviour.

If your girlfriend believes that surgery will help her to feel better about herself then that is her decision,
not yours. If you really care about your partner then support her decisions, don't try to take control
& influence the outcome of those decisions.

Finally I just wanted to comment on the 20/20 video on intersex people. The hardest part about being
intersex was not knowing about it a lot sooner in life, but the knowledge of knowing helps a person to
understand who they really are. Some intersex people are bitter because they were never told, but mostly
because someone else tried to define who they should be. Some are happy to live with the ambiguity in
their sex & gender where others are not. The decision to have surgery should be left until a person is an
adult and to let them make the choices they feel is right for them. It does not matter how your girlfriend
appears, it is how she wants to express herself that is most important. Face lifts are not necessary either
to exist in this world but surgery can really help to make a person feel a lot better about themselves.

[Pythos]

I have NO intention of stopping her. NONE. I will voice my opinion though.

That being said. I got what I needed from this thread.

I would be an idiot if I wanted her to move away though. I do truly love her. If I can, I will scrabble up the funds and means to move with her. If she wants to go through the operation, and she is certain of it, I will back her 100%. Please do not think I am trying to change her mind. I don't believe I have even said I was trying to.

But I would be remiss if I did not offer other ideas as to where and how to go about the operation.

[Melody Moore]

But Pythos, lot of what you stated does sound very much like you have been trying to influence her decisions,
Even I felt like you were trying to sway my opinion about what gender identity I am. I am a female, not a third
gender or anything else. We all have our own reasons for wanting to fit the gender binary & change our bodies
and we are in a modern age where surgical modification has come a long way so why wouldnt we want to fit it?

If everything is really OK, then there should not be an issue for you to get the funds and make the move with her
like you say, so I wonder then what the issues really are. If she just wants surgery then the best place is Thailand.
But I think there are other reasons why she wants to go to Germany and maybe it is more to do with the fact she
is the intersexed child of a wealthy German Aristocrat. So it sounds to me like she might have family in Germany.
But something else is amiss here that doesn't sit right, I can't put my finger on it, but I guess time will soon tell.

[Jennifer Marie P.]

It matters usually a year or two.It took me two years to fully transform between hormone treatment and surgerys.

[Frances]

It matters usually a year or two.It took me two years to fully transform between hormone treatment and surgerys.

That's about right. It takes a lifetime to get to it, and two years to do it.

Hair removal can be a life-long endeavor for some, though.