Gender Identity

[AKAB]

Hi guys, I hope this is the right place to ask this question and I hope I don't offend anyone!

For my coursework I'm studying a bit on childhood development and how it shapes our gender identity. According to Doctor of Medicine, Shuvo Gosh, he said that we begin to find our gender identity usually between the ages 2-5 (on a subconscious level) so I am hoping to find out when does it become conscious. Therefore I was wondering if anyone could inform me at what age did you begin to realise that you were in fact transgender?

I hope this all makes sense and I look forward to your replies. :thanx:

[elizabethamy]

I'm the 2% that will blow up your study. Age 54 for me. But you'll probably find the vast majority before age 14, though 2-5 might be a bit early for some. THere's a great study called "Lives of Transgendered Individuals" (a book by Beemyn and Rankin) that can tell you a lot about how it works for carefully studied populations of transgenders. good luck!

[StaceyJane]

I know I wanted to be a girl when I was 5 years old in kindergarten.

[kimdl93]

I'd say that gender identity begins to express itself in those preschool years, but that its expression is coming from someplace much earlier in development. That being said, the earliest, most powerful and most enduring memories of my life are my thoughts about dressing up in my older sister's clothes. I know I was about 3 years old at the time, because I shared a bedroom with her at that point.

[Melody Moore]

I knew I felt like an alien trying to fit in when I went to kindergarten around the age of 4,
I felt stuck in this no man's land between male & female and like I really didn't belong with
either group for different reasons. I just didn't want to go near boys and because I was a
boy I didn't fit with the girls although I would have much preferred to hang out with them.

My earliest memories with dressing as a girl go back to around the age of 6 or 7 and by the
age of 10 I was wondering if I was really a boy or a girl. I started to feel trapped in the wrong
body when I hit puberty and by the age of 15 I knew without doubt I wanted to change my sex.

One other significant thing was I use to have reoccuring gender related nightmares that
plagued me for all the years I went to school from primary right through to high school.
The most prevalent nightmare was where I lost all my clothes and was naked at school &
all the other kids could see that I was really a girl and not really a boy.

This might also be relevant to your studies - Another thing happened and I developed
a deep fascination for mermaids which inspired me to take up swimming & diving from a
very young age & to become professionally qualified Divemaster as an adult. Whenever
I am in the water diving I always have thoughts of being a mermaid & even to this day
I still use a dolphin kick most of the time when I was diving. Quite a few people who have
seen me in the water have described me as being just like "a fish in the water". Imaging
I had a mermaid's tail always took my mind right away from all my gender issues.

[Kirsty_D]

Around the age 4/5 I refused to do anything that might be considered 'girly'. Being Scottish that included refusing to wear a kilt as it was basically just a skirt, but as ValRom say's gender identity is formed pre-natal but at the age the individual expresses there gender identity varies.

[sandra-leigh]

AKAB, I was 47 when I discovered I was transgender. It took many months of arguing with myself about whether I was or was not before I realized that Yes, I am.

There had long been clues, but I did not understand them.

I can state with certainty that when I was growing up, I had no doubts that I was male. My classmates weren't quite sure about me though.

It is known with certainty that I had atypical brain development: I was put through a suite of tests as a child that established that. Marked atypical brain development is not common for transsexuals. I am an outlier in such matter, and there is no evidence that my development of TG awareness applies to more than a small fraction of TG. I am the exception that establishes that there are different ways TG can happen to people.



I believe that you're making the assumption that gender identity is formed post-natal

The opening statement was phrased in terms of "begin to find", but that does not imply any change in state, only that we did not find it earlier. If you prefer, substitute "find out" for "find".

[Inna]

https://sites.google.com/site/trans2womanworld/scientific

[Miranda-E]

Hi guys, I hope this is the right place to ask this question and I hope I don't offend anyone!

For my coursework I'm studying a bit on childhood development and how it shapes our gender identity. According to Doctor of Medicine, Shuvo Gosh, he said that we begin to find our gender identity usually between the ages 2-5 (on a subconscious level) so I am hoping to find out when does it become conscious. Therefore I was wondering if anyone could inform me at what age did you begin to realise that you were in fact transgender?


2-5, nothing subconscious. as early as being self aware. well before school or any other external factors.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Your results might depend on how you define transgender. Do you mean when a TS first realized that their gender does not match the one assigned at birth, or when someone first started crossdressing, or when someone realized that they have an additional female "component" to their existing male personality?

[Rianna Humble]

I don't have any strong memories from the age range you mentioned, but my earliest memory is from about age 7 or 8 when I had a recurring dream every night for about two weeks where I saw my wedding. Of course, it was the rather idealised traditional white wedding in an old fashioned church that most girls dream about at that age. I never did see the groom, but I was wearing a beautiful white dress with a long train and was definitely the bride. After that, I spent the next month roughly crying myself to sleep each night wishing I could wake up as the girl I knew I was meant to be.

I can't say that I actually realised I was trans at that age because I didn't even hear the term until years after that, I just knew I wasn't a boy but that I had to pretend.

[Persephone]

The first time I remember trying to be a girl was when I was 2-1/2 years old. but that may only be my first memory and not my first awareness, which may have occurred earlier.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Kristy_K]

I am thinking I was around 4 years old.

Kristy

[Michelle.M]

Discovering one's own gender identity between ages 2-5 sounds about right. I have heard of 2 year olds (for example, David Reimer) having gender issues at age 2. The exact age will vary.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Hello,

The realization that I was female began at age four.


Julia

[Melody Moore]

Because of the age we develop our memory recall & gender awareness usually comes AFTER
that, I highly doubt anyone that says they knew they were a girl at the age of 2-3 years old.


Childhood amnesia refers to the inability of adults to retrieve episodic memories before the age of 2-4 years, as well as the period before age 10 of which adults remember fewer memories than accounted for by the passage of time. For the first 1-2 years of life, brain structures such as the limbic system, which includes the hippocampus and the amygdala and is involved in memory storage, are not yet fully developed (CITE). Research has demonstrated that children can remember events from before the age of 3-4 years, but that these memories are somehow lost through the elementary and middle school years.

When the offset of childhood amnesia is defined as the age of first memory, then offset occurs around 3.5 years though it can range from 2-5 years, depending the memory retrieval method. However, when the offset of childhood amnesia is defined as the age at which the majority of memories are personal recollections rather than known events, then offset occurs at approximately 4.7 years old.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childhood_amnesia

My first awareness my gender identity was different did not involve any actual thinking "I should be a girl".
Just having a soft & gentle demeanour was enough to teach me that effeminate behaviour was not going
to be tolerated in anyway by male peers because I was bullied and picked on for it as it was. Maybe if I was
allowed to explore my gender more around that age rather than being forced to repress it, I MIGHT have
developed an earlier awareness that I had a female personality & gender identity. But as I said I didn't start
to question my actual gender identity until around the age of 9-10 which is why I doubt those who did not
transition until later in life but claim to have known at the age of 2 or 3. I spoke to a psychologist on this
issue & she also doubts those who claim they knew they were cross-gendered at the age of 2 or 3 years old.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I crossdressed from my earliest memories. I viewed my dressing as "just a thing i did" until i was about 10 years old and then i strarted thinking about the fact that i wasn't a girl.. I viewed it as a fantasy to become a woman...

it wasn't until i was in my early 40's that i realized that the reason i felt this was because i was transsexual

[Melody Moore]

I crossdressed from my earliest memories.
The question is Kaitlyn, what age were you really when you had those memories?

I have no doubt that our gender identities are formed before we are born, but the age we become
aware of our gender identities that is what is questionable here. It feels to me like I have been also
dressing as a girl all my life, but the reality is my earliest memories that I can actually recall started
around the age of 6 years old. And like you it was just something I did and the reasons behind why
I started are still not actually clear. One thing is certain that there was no sexual motivation behind
why I was doing this. My dressing as a girl allowed me to see the real female in me, but there was still
this doubt that existed and left me questioning if I was really a boy or if I was really a girl. By the time
I hit puberty I knew without any doubts that I wanted to be a woman but this was also the stage that
I really had to start working harder to repress my true feelings. I did notaccept that I was a transsexual
until about 45-46 years old & I started my transition at the age of 47.

[Kirsty_D]

Thank you Kaitlyn, that is how it was for me as well, I started dressing up as a girl from about the age of 6


It was the opposite for me, I refused to do anything that might be thought of as girly or sissy. One of my earliest memory's is my parents suggesting I wear a kilt for special occasion's. I threw a hairy fit and refused to wear one as it was too girly. I was 4 years old, just before my 5th birthday. A few years later the kids all took to dressing up as women for Halloween, I wanted badly to do this but didn't want anybody to know so I picked Compo from TV show "Last of the summer wine" to dress up as, then I would have been 8 or 9. Around when I was 11 or 12 I discovered a large bag of mum's old clothes and this is when I started dressing and I really started to realize I was different.

[DebbieL]

Hi guys, I hope this is the right place to ask this question and I hope I don't offend anyone!

For my coursework I'm studying a bit on childhood development and how it shapes our gender identity. According to Doctor of Medicine, Shuvo Gosh, he said that we begin to find our gender identity usually between the ages 2-5 (on a subconscious level) so I am hoping to find out when does it become conscious. Therefore I was wondering if anyone could inform me at what age did you begin to realise that you were in fact transgender?

I hope this all makes sense and I look forward to your replies. :thanx:

I was transgender in the womb. There are actually physical traits that can indicate that a child has had less testosterone during gestation. One simple indicator is to measure the index finger and compare it to the ring finger. On more "feminine" people, the index finger will be longer than the ring finger. On more "masculine" people, the ring finger will be longer. There is a similar development in the brain. Those with less testosterone do not develop the larger Limbic system which causes most male mammals to be aggressive, to fight, and to be fiercely competitive, even as part of a team.

By the time I was old enough to play with other children, it was already obvious that I was different. When playing with other boys, they would push and I wouldn't push back, which meant that they would push more, I would be more of an observer, sometimes caught in the line of fire. On the other hand, when I played with girls, I would be very much engaged, more interested in what they were doing, and wanting to participate. I enjoyed playing with baby dolls, stuffed animals, drawing and coloring, and giggling.

This was just "normal" for me, until I got to be about 6 years old, in first grade, and parents and teachers suddenly decided that I should not be allowed to play with the girls. I tried to play with the boys, but again, I wasn't prepared for the violence. After literally being "stoned" for being a sissy, the boys throwing rocks at me, and later just beating on me and kicking me once I was down, I simply avoided playing with everybody.

I focused my attention into books, but books about boys that were focused on sports, fights, winning, and losing, just annoyed and upset me, reminding me about everything I disliked about boys. Books about girls, and the things girls liked to do, were upsetting because I was no longer allowed into that world. So I started reading non-fiction, books about how things worked, technology, electronics, chemistry, aerodynamics.

By the end of first grade, I was reading at third grade level, by the end of second grade I was reading at 7th grade level, and by the end of 4th grade, I was reading at high school level. By 7th grade, I was reading at college level.

My father encouraged me to explore hobbies, to try to do the things in the books. My mother encouraged me to learn handicrafts, to knit, crochet, sew, cook, clean, do laundry, and learn music, art, and even dance.

I avoided fights as much as possible, and when I did fight, I often didn't take it seriously until I was being hit hard and trapped in a circle of boys who wouldn't allow me to quit. Then I fought like a cornered cat, lashing out in rage and fury, at everyone, including those forming the circle, until they would either let me out, or they would all gang up on me together.

The desire to dress didn't becomes strong until after I was banished from the girls. Before, we just traded clothes, it was fun, but not a big deal, just fun to look pretty. When I was banished, the clothes became my link to the world of girls and women, the feminine, the person I wanted to be.

I would hope, wish, pray, wish upon stars, even do research, trying to find some way to turn myself into a girl. I even tried to find books on magic, black magic, spells, and even Faust, yet nothing worked. I tried to understand why God would have made me a boy if he wanted me to be a girl, or why he would make me want to be a girl if he wanted me to be a boy.

Of course, the more hopeless the situation seemed, the more I would keep it a secret. My mother caught me dressed when I was 6, and I told her how much I wanted to be a girl, to wear dresses, tights, and have long hair. I'm sure that it must have been hard for her to tell me that it wasn't possible. She agreed to get me a pair of tights, and I was allowed to wear them to bed, or under my pants, but not on school days. My dad gave me a cape and suggested that I could be a super hero, like superman. He didn't want to accept it at all. He had also been transgendered, and knew from bitter experience how impossible it was to do anything about it. Back in 1961, there were no books on gender identity disorder, it was even considered a form of psychosis. Girls who were tom-boys were being more accepted, but even they were forced to wear skirts or dresses to school everyday, and were not supposed to play with the boys, when they were playing soccer or baseball.

By the time I was 11, my testicles, which had not descended, had finally dropped, and I started going through puberty. For me, it was worse than a death sentence. My voice started to drop, I went from singing soprano in Junior Choir to alto, to unable to sing at all. I was growing hair, and I was getting taller. Soon I was too big to fit into my mother's clothes, and had no way of getting clothes of my own. When I was 15, and I discovered I was a Bass, that was the final straw. I turned to booze and drugs, tried to overdose on prescription drugs several times, but kept waking up anyway, got hooked up with a "bad crowd", and eventually ended up as a material witness. That was a wake-up call.

I ended up in Choir, singing as a bass, and sorta felt like I fit in. I joined All City Choir, high school choir, and ended up in the school musical, summer theater, and then got very involved in theater, where I learned to "act" like a man. I also hung out with the gay community in the choir/theater, because it was the one group of guys where I actually felt safe and comfortable. Of course, I was afraid they would reject me if they found out that I wanted to be a girl. Looking back on it, I really wish I had been able to tell that group. Rather than rejecting me, they might have been able to introduce me to people like me, who might have been able to help me find the resources I needed to make an informed decision and be comfortable with that choice.

[Aprilrain]

I crossdressed from my earliest memories. I viewed my dressing as "just a thing i did" until i was about 10 years old and then i strarted thinking about the fact that i wasn't a girl.. I viewed it as a fantasy to become a woman...l

This pretty much sums up my experience though I do not remember the exact age when I started thinking, "Why do I want to be a girl" often followed by much shame and guilt. I do remember it being very prevalent after puberty and becoming difficult to control by my mid 20s. First time I seriously considered transition I was 30.

[sandra-leigh]

By the end of first grade, I was reading at third grade level, by the end of second grade I was reading at 7th grade level, and by the end of 4th grade, I was reading at high school level. By 7th grade, I was reading at college level.

I was a bit further in advanced in my reading, but I do not relate that (directly) to gender identity struggles. I came from a family of readers, was encouraged to read, and loved to read. The women were perhaps more obvious about the reading, but my father, grandfather, and two uncles would also all read in plain sight.

The avid reading, though, was a sign of a more general issue: we were intelligent. In grade school, I was probably the second most intelligent student in the entire school, not just my grade. Classes were easy, classes were fun, classes were interesting, the teachers loved teaching me. Now take a boy who is literally "uncoordinated" and doesn't fit in to boy athletics, and let the boy happen to bright enough that school is like a good game, and you are going to end up with a boy who is shunned by nearly all the other boys.

The situation might not in itself be gender isolation, but if there is some gender isolation in the mix anyhow, then it certainly re-enforces it.

Now, to the credit of my grade-school teachers: they did notice that I was not "socializing" well, and they reported it back to my parents, and indicated they were "quite worried", and my parents did take me for a series of medical tests and psychological tests because of it. I don't think they looked at gender, though, and probably wouldn't have found anything if they had. I knew I was male at that age, and was saddened and disappointed by the taunts otherwise.

[elizabethamy]

sandra-leigh, your experience may help me understand why my own discoveries came so late (see earlier post(s))...if you're seen as weird and/or think of yourself as weird or "apart" from everyone else for any reason -- whether it's that you're a nerd or anything else -- you could easily have always assumed that was why you felt different from other boys. I was a major nerd myself and had to work hard to be even semi accepted by anyone cool...and always seemed to be more popular with girls than boys, even though I never suspected any gender issues...hmmm...intelligence in school doesn't mean you can't be oblivious, i guess.

[sandra-leigh]

hmmm...intelligence in school doesn't mean you can't be oblivious, i guess.

That's for sure!

I never learned to hide myself under a cover personality. I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong, and I was just being me, how could I be otherwise? As I sometimes say, "I wasn't smart enough to play dumb."

[Andie Elisabeth]

I never suspected any gender issues...hmmm...intelligence in school doesn't mean you can't be oblivious, i guess.


That's for sure!

I never learned to hide myself under a cover personality. I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong, and I was just being me, how could I be otherwise? As I sometimes say, "I wasn't smart enough to play dumb."

I learned from my mom who is a freelancer how to close the door and leave the work, good and bad stuff, behind it. Being a computer nerd helped me a lot to learn how to cover my personality and show it only to people who have proper permissions. I didn't suspect gender issues even though I was into girl's stuff except CDing and my mom from time to time throws into air IS/TS topic. I suspect she knows more than I do (^_^)

[SaraDominguez]

as i have said in my introductory post, i don't remember ever having those feelings of being trapped in the wrong body when i was young and the only true time it happened was last year when i turned 20...
am worried however it may not be true and was just pushing myself into a big lie which covers up another problem which has to do with overall identity :( especially the fact that last year was the only true time i've had those feelings about my gender

[arbon]

Therefore I was wondering if anyone could inform me at what age did you begin to realise that you were in fact transgender?

I knew something was wrong when I was young - as early as 4 even. My first memory of it was a dress up game with neighborhood kids I was really hopping I would somehow get some girl cloths playing the game. What was really interesting about that was that I thought at the time that because it was a game it would be alright with my mom if I did it because it was just a game - I already had shame about it, was afraid of my mom knowing what I really wanted - which was to be a girl. I was very aware that it was something that needed to be kept secret.

Most of my life I experienced confusion about the issue. I wanted to be a girl, a woman and absolutely hated being a boy / man. But I did not think I was not a boy, I just thought I was a very messed up and sick boy. I never considered that really I did have a female gender inside, until 39 / 40 years when I started learning more about transgender and transsexualism. So I would say I really became conscious of my gender identify at age 40 - that is when it finally solidified on a conscious level at least, when the confusion came about it came to an end.

[Rachel Smith]

Though I wouldn't say i knew but my first recollection is around age 8 or so when I can actually remember thinking why do my 2 younger sisters get to wear pretty dresses and I don't. Did I think it was transgendered NO. Heck I think iI was invented before the word, lol. I just knew I preferred pretty dresses to ugly boy clothes. Hell I still don't know and I am 56 now but I am working on getting those answers.

Love
Rachel

[Betty M]

I began to realize that I was not like the other boys when I was in kindergarten (age 5). I like the girl things, did not care for the boy games.

[NathalieX66]

Gender identity is a very real issue.
I've met many people who say the classic line of "I was born in the wrong body", it's the truth.
In some cases, the brain is wired as the opposite gender yet the birth hormones do not reflect the mind.

I'm someone who identifies as gender fluid , it's a very happy and comfortable place for me. But to be honest with you, or anyone who is clincally diagnosed as transsexual, I can't share the pain that you feel, but I see it.

[SuzanneBender]

Kindergarten. I always played with the other girls growing up but once I got to school the adults kept pushing me toward the boys. I had no interest in what they were doing. The feelings of being female have never subsided since my earliest memories of realizing that my feelings didn't match my biology.

[Kelsy]

I crossdressed from my earliest memories. I viewed my dressing as "just a thing i did" until i was about 10 years old and then i strarted thinking about the fact that i wasn't a girl.. I viewed it as a fantasy to become a woman...

it wasn't until i was in my early 40's that i realized that the reason i felt this was because i was transsexual


The question is Kaitlyn, what age were you really when you had those memories?


I really had to start working harder to repress my true feelings. I did notaccept that I was a transsexual
until about 45-46 years old & I started my transition at the age of 47.

I hate to ascribe to much accuracy to my early childhood memories because I was very aloof and unaware as a child. I knew one thing though at the ages of three to about 8-9 I didn't fit and I knew something was wrong! I was timid shy quiet and gentle. I was aware that it was always a struggle to find acceptance with my male peers and I found comfort and related easily with my female friends. I was crossdressing at 8yrs. I developed a hate for my behavior, a self loathing because it was something I could not cure. I felt perverted and always thought there was something seriously wrong with me. being transsexual was something I hated to admit . I rejected the idea. It was a lurking destroyer for me. I invested years in trying to maintain a male fasade making it more difficult to consider what the truth was about my true self as each year passed

It took years of misery to get to a place where I could finally honestly look at it for what it is. Looking back, all of the evidences are clear and all of the lights came on at once. It is an incredible moment when it all makes sense! It's sad that it took fifty years!

[LeaP]

My experience is similar to Kelsy's. Early crossdressing (pre-school), social with girls and women (I used to visit with neighborhood moms). Very solitary and withdrawn elsewhere, including refusing to go to school. I drawn to, and repulsed by everything related to transsexuality growing up. I crossdressed and purged for decades. When I finally accepted my crossdressing, the underlying gender issue came out, rather violently, in fact. And, like Kelsy, it took 50 years for it to happen.