Working for a transphobic company?

[Frances]

Hi all,
I am currently looking for a new work opportunity (I am a translator) and have been doing interviews with a few companies. I interviewed last week for Anthropology, who wants to open stores in Quebec. Since I am generally stealth and have changed all of my personal information including my diplomas, I don't feel the need to tell the people that interview me that I am trans. When I came home, I researched Anthropology and Urban Outfitters, its parent company, and came across this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/19/urban-outfitters-tranny-greeting-card_n_1364589.html

I did more some research to see if it was a hoax, but it looks like it is not. I found other information about the CEO or UO that made me queazy. The career opportunity was very interesting, but I don't know if I can work for a company who would put out this product.

What would you do?

[LeannL]

Frances,

It is a tough call between eating and avoiding a bad work environment. Not taking a job with them is, unfortunately, not going to make them change their ways. On the other hand, if the corporate stupidity doesn't affect the local job you may take, then it won't affect you either. I assume that you have no intention to disclose your past. So I guess it really comes down to your ability to bite your tongue if they get crazy with the transphobic stuff again and you need to keep the job.

This probably didn't help much but good luck anyway,

Leann

[mbmeen12]

Do you need a job, or you want a job? You could take the position, then you may look again when in a better financial position... I went to the link (dam fools), maybe you could replace the idiots who approved that merchandise?

[Frances]

I am currently employed. I am looking for a better work situation. I have been doing interviews with a few people. This situation was a little different, as I would be forming and leading the translation department. Being a professional translator, so I would not be approving products. I could, however, be asked to translate transphobic lymericks for the province of Quebec!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I do not believe the card impacts whether you would be working for a transphobic company ..
i don't even thing the card is techincally transphobic...its raunchy and its crude, but its raunchy limerick...thats what they are...misogyny abounds in limericks...

Its clear that whoever made up the card thought through how it might makes tg people feel...but companies are not very good about "feelings"
It looks more like they were trying to be 'edgy"

I would ignore the card, and see what's up the same way you would in any job search, and see how you feel if there is good opportunity for you. It will be much more about the people you work with day to day than some stupid limerick..

..plus you don't have a ****!!! heh

i have been accused of being too pragmatic, but in my mind its all a matter of degree...i recall a friend telling me she would never watch monty python because the drag characters offended her...are you kidding me???

[Inna]

OMG, ok I get that most here are soooooooo sensitive to any mention of our world in any other light then perfect but I laughed my ass off to that card :) IT IS FUNNY, I tell you if I took all the Polak jokes to heart (which by the way some are spot on) I would have to get back to Poland and never leave its borders......which would suck tremendously.

Get the job, make the money and spend it in the most GAY way :) and laugh with them

[Myojine]

"As Unicorn Booty blogger Kevin Farrell notes, Urban Outfitters has a long history of "anti-gay" business practices and political donations. "

Sounds like you picked a winner.

I personally wouldnt work for, shop at, or even enter a store if i know their business practices are detrimental in nature to equality or fair treatment of customers and employees

Why do you think i dont shop at gamestop, or drink Dr.Pepper/Snapple products, or use a bank that partisipated in the 2009 Bailouts?
I refuse to support those who are negetive to the culture.

If i was you i wouldnt work for them.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Hi Frances,

I would personally look past it.
IMO I think in most cases people are generally good and but are ignorant to many of life's more sensitive subjects.
I've met many people who just didn't think a joke or a word would hurt but once they were called on it they honestly were repentant for the infraction.


Julia

[Aprilrain]

I would buy that card and give it to one of my TS GFs, its funny. Boycotts don't work look at all the countries the US "boycotts" they seem to be doing just fine working with the emerging global leader in manufacturing, CHINA! I mean seriously how many people are really researching every store they may shop at to see wether or not some person in that company may be doing something offensive. Its almost guaranteed that almost all of the high level execs of almost every company in the world are a bunch men who have no problem telling sophomoric and sexist comments amongst themselves. should I just wear sack cloth?

[StevieTV]

Your post makes me happy that I moved out of Quebec and Montreal. I always consider the area to be friendly. I believe it is; however, some companies with their HQ based outside Quebec may not be so open minded. Good luck.

[sandra-leigh]

I personally wouldnt work for, shop at, or even enter a store if i know their business practices are detrimental in nature to equality or fair treatment of customers and employees

That is a very ethical stand, Myojine, and I respect it a lot.

"Integrity -- When you do the right thing even though no one is watching." (Anonymous)

Or in the phrasing I tend to use for myself, "The true measure of character is when one stick's to one's principles even when it is very inconvenient or even in some way detrimental."

For example I have skipped meals rather than eat at a particular restaurant chain that I have problems with. I have refused to take advantage of tax reductions which were created as social engineering that I believe will be harmful to society.

Last year a quite prestigious company was trying to recruit me, and while the kind of work they are doing might perhaps be technically inevitable ("someone will do it, eventually"), the progress will be without me, as I believe the work is ultimately harmful.

We are, each of us, responsible for the consequences of our actions. In my volunteer work, I refuse to help people do school projects on technologies that have historically be used to repress people.

My becoming publicly transgendered: I couldn't handle not being true to myself by hiding myself.

I don't have much in the world, but I have me, and I try to live right.

[Kathryn Martin]

I am all for lighten it up, but sorry this is not funny and I think UO shows it's stripes.

[Melody Moore]

I read the card and it is pretty crude, so I think you have a point - personally I wouldn't
want to work them because I think it is very poor taste on the part of this company to
exploit an already heavily stigmatised & marginalised community. So yeah - screw them!

Keeping my morals intact is more important than money, even when it comes to saving for my SRS.

[Frances]

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. I am ambivalent on the matter myself. I just wanted your opinions.

[Melody Moore]

Frances I know where you are coming from and I can also see why some people
find it really funny as well, but there is also a huge negative side to this type
of transphobic material which laughs and makes fun of a very stigmatised and
marginalised community. So I am going to take an objectionable stance on this.

[Kristy_K]

Frances you are a woman. Just use your woman's intuition about the job.

Kristy

[Joann Smith]

Not tell them you are a Transgendered Translator...WTF... thats awsome... think you should put that right at the top of your resume ..Transgendered Translator ..Highly skilled in both Female and male languages...I.E. you have the ability to speak and understand female and then break it down and put in a form that a male can understand ... its brilliant...LOL

[Eryn]

Well, the CEO stepped down, but I very much doubt that he penned that limerick. He did, however, create a company culture within which everyone who counts thought that the limerick was funny and salable. Do you really want to be in that culture every day? I think that it would be akin a black person taking a job with the Klan.

[Rachel Smith]

My .02 cents though with inflation figured in it's closer to my .005 cents. If it was on a shirt or a plaque or some such thing then it is funny. However if it is said to someone with malice or to hurt then it is not funny. That is what seperates funny from not funny.

Love
Rachel

[SuzanneBender]

The card is awful and I am not sure why anyone would ever want to give someone such a trite piece of trash. Now thats out of my system on to the question.

It looks like the CEO at the time of the publication of this card stepped down and the company has had nearly two years to change its vision and culture. I would do some more research to see what their culture looks like today.

Taking a job in the wrong corporate culture could be career suicide not just for the current job but also future jobs down the line.

[Sarah V]

I would give your prespective employeers a break and take the job if they off it to you. Be realistic, the company probably sells litterly thousands of items in each of it's stores. Do you honestly belive Senior Management of UA knows every item being sold in its stores, and wheter or not it may be offensive to a particular group in society as a whole? Their buyers probably liked the greeting card line, and the person they bought the cards from probably sold them up to 30 different ones. This one card just happened to part of that card creaters repatuare. I am sure UA meant nothing wrong.....given the nature of their business why would they want to alienate an important customer base that they know is out there and who buys their products. I really would not read too much into this.

[Melody Moore]

given the nature of their business why would they want to alienate an important customer base that they know is out there and who buys their products. I really would not read too much into this.
And like as a crossdresser you know and you understand how this card makes other TRANSSEXUAL
people feel right? Especially a pre-op transsexual that desperately wants SRS but cannot afford it eh?

This card has already upset and offended a number of people and a market they are already alienating themselves
from with this card. But what do they care? This company has track record of no morals & profiteering by exploiting a
heavily stigmatised & marginalised community. As Eryn said, this is akin to a black person taking a job with the KKK.

[Debglam]

Frances,

Let me pass on a little of my life experience. Trans issue aside, you will spend most of your life at work. Day in, day out you will be going there in the morning, working for and with the same people, leaving in the evening, five days a week. You need to consider your feelings and whether or not you want to put up with the level of aggravation working for a company that at best you don't respect and at worst, hate (assuming those are your feeling). You posted that you DON'T need the job so IMO, I would base the decision solely on how happy you will be. Life is too short.

Debby

[RachelOKC]

I had to turn down a job with a small business precisely because I realized that I wouldn't be able to stomach working with the owner. Throughout much of two interviews he ranted a lot of right wing ideology (I couldn't care less about his politics, but they were not appropriate at the time) and made several veiled racist comments. Not only that, he literally kept stepping between me and the door to get in one more remark as we closed the interview and I was leaving. God knows what he would have thought about me coming out as trans.

I went out to the car and literally banged my forehead against the steering wheel. I realized right off the bat that if he was doing this in an interview, then what would working for him be like? Despite the people who told me to take the job anyway, I politely declined the offer. It sucked turning it down, but I'm pretty sure it would have sucked worse to take it.

[Nicole Brown]

IMHO, you really need to do what is right for you. We are all different and you have received advice, recommendations, and suggestions from many girls who have offered both pros and cons of working to this organization. The only advice I will offer you is to look inside yourself and do what feels right to you.

Some years ago, prior to my retirement last year, I was asked to work on a consulting engagement for one of my companies larger clients. I was not out to my company at this time and had no plans of working enfemme during this engagement. Since my pretty time was to be limited to non business hours only, I didn't believe it would be a problem. I hadn't heard anything negative about this company so I thought nothing about it.

Within the first two weeks I overheard several rather predigest comments concerning members of the GLBT community. Since these comments weren't made directly to me, or worse concerning me, I figured that I would just ignore them. Well, less than 2 weeks later I went on record and asked to be removed from the engagement. It turned out that it wasn't just a couple of people who made these comments, but it seemed to be more than I felt comfortable with.

I am not saying that this is what you will face, but be forewarned, it could happen. Just think carefully before you decide how to proceed.

[sandra-leigh]

Each person must decide for themselves.

Some people would refuse to work for a company whose cafeteria used styrofoam containers (not environmentally friendly.) I am not amongst them.

I, though, cannot / will-not work for any company involved in killing or making weapons of war (including by chemical means).

The organization I work for is rumored to have secret defense contracts. Not in my division, thankfully, and I am not happy about the situation -- but I haven't quit because of it either. My division is very firmly in the helping-people side, so I have to balance my certain knowledge that I am doing what I can in my work to help humanity, against the rumors (and occasional publicly admissions) that some people of our organization are working on projects whose ultimate purpose is to kill or control people.

An organization that I have been looking into the possibility of working with: although nothing gets said, I can read between the lines easily enough to understand that some of their work is contracting to military or intelligence agencies. Which puts me in a bit of a pickle. Perhaps add a clause in my contract that says I will never be asked to work such work.

Frances, if they do offer you the position, you would be in a position to ask to review the personnel policies; for that part, you would not need to say anything more than, "The policies form part of the employment conditions, and I take my responsibilities to the company too seriously enough that I wish to review the policies to ensure that I can comply with them."

If the official policies have substantial equality provisions, then review how they are written and what the procedures are with an eye to what you would be able to do (or not) if any offensive material was referred to you for translation.

If there are no such official policies, then you would potentially be in a bad place not just for trans material. For example suppose there was a card based upon the premise that urban black people were thieves or amoral. Or suppose there is a badly thought-out ad campaign. You probably wouldn't want to be complicent by translating without objection, but it could get rather uncomfortable for you if you refused a translation without a policy to back up your refusal.

And what if the ideas / themes just happen to be ones that translate into something offensive or ridiculous because of different cultures and different associations? How much latitude will you have to change the ideas or tell them that the ideas are not going to work well?

If the position would actually have the authority to push back against bad ideas, then the position might be worth taking. But if you are expected to be robots spell-checking Google Translation, chances are you are going to run into cultural / personal sensitivity problems of other sorts even before trans comes up.

[ReineD]

Well, you could lay your cards on the table. You wouldn't really have anything to lose, since you likely would NOT want to work there if the corporate culture is openly homophobic?

By being honest I don't mean disclosing your past, but rather during the interview process you could mention that you saw the card and it concerns you since you do not believe in discrimination of any kind, and you wonder about the corporate culture. I should think that your objection would reflect well on you. You would be seen as an open-minded individual, an attribute that meshes well with UO's customer base.

It could well be the card was just someone's bad attempt at trying to be edgy and hip for marketing purposes. Wiki has a page on UO that says they try to "create an emotional bond with the 18 to 30 year old target customer they serve". It's my impression that their focus is more on making money by pandering to what their marketing people believe is the pulse of their target market, rather than trying to influence said market with any particular philosophy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Outfitters

I also read that Richard Hayne contributes to conservative political parties, but at the same time he knows that his personal image doesn't mesh well with UO and he seeks to distance himself from the company (again an indication his motive is to make money more than influence the target market). See the second article here, entitled "Square who got hip to urban chic (http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1631669/BAE-set-for-rough-time-in-the-arms-of-Justice.html)".

You could see what they have to say about it and then decide.

[Melody Moore]

Say "Hello" to the new boss Richard Hayne. :eek:

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