The last Stigma

[Nikki A.]

I'm wondering if CDing is the last non criminal stigma that there is. It seems that gays and lesbians are now accepted and being open about it will not normally cost you your job and friends.
However, wearing women's clothing can cost you a career, friends and family. We feel that we must need to run and hide if someone knocks on our door, looks over a fence etc.
What is wrong with wearing a nice top or a even having painted nails. It seems that it is easier to go all out and dress completely than to partially dress.
I know that some of you already do it, and you will say that if we were more open maybe things will change. But at what cost to the trailblazers.
I do try to do my part in making a change. I do go out and if asked, I do explain my thoughts and desires, but I also explain that I am only giving my thoughts and that others wants and desires are different. It seems on a one on one basis people seem to be understanding.
Opinions or thoughts

[Callum2000]

You know, I know a lot of dressers and when they get "confronted" about it, they just kind of laugh it off and not let it bother them. I really don't know why people are so against CD, for my own personal belief...men's clothes are just too plain and dull and there's nothing sexy about them at all, women's clothes on the other hand are so much more nice and sexy and just so much better. I think people need to at least try and see this aspect that a lot of CD's feel like this that they don't want to be trapped by having to live the way most people would expect them too. Even though I've had thoughts about wanting to wear women's clothes since I was very young(I'm 23 now) I always pushed it away and didn't act on them. I'm at a point now where I'm ready to embrace my love of fashion and not wanting to be tied down to dull men's clothes. I hope the stigma on CD will at least get lower than it is now because I do believe the world would be better if people just accepted that its not only women who like to look good in heels and whatnot!

[JessHaust]

It is absolutely going to take many trailblazers going out to turn the public image. I am, and enjoy being, one of those trailbalzers. What cost? For me none, for some? who knows until they try.
But we will not be the last stigma. The human race is a constantly changing thing. Every stigma I have ever seen grow common has been replaced by something new.
My father-in-law moved before he would let his daughter go to school with black children. My daughter dates a very nice black boy.
To be gay was a horrible shame when I grew up, and people kept it desprately sceret ( sound familiar?). Now we have many openly gay friends.
Long hair on boys, then multicolored hair, then tatoos, then body pirecings...... We move through an ever expanding version of what is socially acceptable.

I don't know what it will be, I just know it will.

[Sara Jessica]

I used to say that TG is the last group in society where people somehow feel it's OK to openly laugh at and not feel so guilty about doing so. But I was corrected by a girlfriend who pointed out that her boss was a dwarf and he gets the laughs and looks infinitely more than anyone in our community ever would. I stood humbly corrected and since then have never made that bold & incorrect statement again.

When you think about it, there are many groups and/or personality/appearance traits which tend to garner the laughs & snickers from uneducated morons. You would think that as time goes by that these behaviors would cease across the board but until then, we simply have to educate the masses one person at a time.

[Rita C.]

How know what is next, but you CD, Transgendered And transexauls are trailblazing the trail for them just like all the others before us and in time I hope that our road get easer to drive on. it has already came a long way.

[Nigella]

There are many many more TG folk hiding, for whatever reason (that is for another thread by the way), than those out and about. This means that the fight for the removal of the social stigma will just take a little more time.

Personally I would say within the next 5 generations, there will be no more stigma attached to CDing activity than there is to coming out about being gay or lesbian.

Social stigma is bourne by those who know no better, people of a certain age group who have not had the access to the information available about the transgender community.

[sandra-leigh]

Not the last, no. I suspect Adult Babys / infantilism hide much more from the public.

[docrobbysherry]

To paraphrase Sandra, "Stigma? Yes! But the last or ultimate stigma? I don't think so!"

How about CD's who wear masks? Or, dress for sexual and/or fantasy reasons? I'm guessing there's LOTS OF FOLKS much higher on the "stigma scale" than TG's!

[Kate Simmons]

Pretty much the way it works my friend. Winning over one heart at a time because of who we are not what we are. That is what always makes the difference.:)

[Eryn]

I think that society will continue to manufacture stigmas as time goes on. As long as certain groups of people continue to decide that another person is "wrong" or "deviant" there will be stigmas. Allow these groups to have power and they will force their own stigmas onto everyone.

[Misti]

There are many many more TG folk hiding, for whatever reason (that is for another thread by the way), than those out and about. This means that the fight for the removal of the social stigma will just take a little more time.
Personally I would say within the next 5 generations, there will be no more stigma attached to CDing activity than there is to coming out about being gay or lesbian. Social stigma is bourne by those who know no better, people of a certain age group who have not had the access to the information available about the transgender community.


Pretty much the way it works my friend. Winning over one heart at a time because of who we are not what we are. That is what always makes the difference.:)

I have chosen these two (2) posts to cover pretty much what I would like to add here. :2c:

I sat in a Psych 501 (i.e., Graduate level) class over 30 years ago, next to a lesbian, who told me that if all the gays and lesbians (she said they represented over 10% of the population at the time) ever stood up in the world, the world would be utterly flabbergasted. She was right, of course, and just think how long that fight has been going on - for millenia. It will take that same concerted effort of the CD (et al.) community that our predecessors, i.e., "trailblazers," have made, and it will, indeed, have to be done much like Kate has espoused. :straightface:
BTW let's all hope that Nigella's estimate of 5 generations is way too long, of course! :daydreaming:

We start, Now! :love:

[elizabethamy]

maybe not the last stigma, but certainly just about the worst going right now. My SO would rather I announced that I was gay, or an embezzler, or something like that, than to have to deal with even a closeted CD husband, and I think her view is really reflective of the world we live in right now. blah.

[NathalieX66]

Crossdressing will continue to be a stigma until you challenge society by going out in public, and abate public attitudes.....Anyone remember Rosa Parks?

I fondly remember last year taking a road trip from New Jersey to Atlanta on my way to SCC, and showing up at the car rental desk at BWI en femme, and the staff treated me like gold. Half an hour later, I was standing in front of the White House with my friend Abigail, and I had more tourists asking me to take pictures of them than I asked of anyone. This is probably one of my worst pic of me, but I did it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nathalielandree/6190800554/in/photostream

Even I have been personally discriminated on rare occasions, but by far & large I have found plenty of acceptance to make it all worth it.

[Frédérique]

I'm wondering if CDing is the last non criminal stigma that there is. It seems that gays and lesbians are now accepted and being open about it will not normally cost you your job and friends.
However, wearing women's clothing can cost you a career, friends and family. We feel that we must need to run and hide if someone knocks on our door, looks over a fence etc.
What is wrong with wearing a nice top or a even having painted nails. It seems that it is easier to go all out and dress completely than to partially dress.
I know that some of you already do it, and you will say that if we were more open maybe things will change. But at what cost to the trailblazers.
I do try to do my part in making a change. I do go out and if asked, I do explain my thoughts and desires, but I also explain that I am only giving my thoughts and that others wants and desires are different. It seems on a one on one basis people seem to be understanding. Opinions or thoughts (?)

MtF crossdressing is a crime against masculinity, period. To compound the matter, we are living in a period of insecurity, even more insecure than things USED to be, so everyone is afraid that masculinity is under threat. Ridiculous. This creates an enormous backlash against anything remotely connected with effeminacy, and there is an attendant thrust (get the picture?) towards manliness and its alleged virtues. I draw the line, but I would, since I am not predisposed to be manly in any way. I realize everyone has a different definition of what “masculine” means, but I’m talking about the masculinity that needs to express itself at the expense of others – is it any wonder some of us feel the need to hide our precious, beautiful secrets?

I like how you call us crossdressers “trailblazers!” Cool! That is exactly what we are, except that I do not blaze a trail for others to follow – rather, I am on a journey of self-discovery, and the journey itself is what matters, not some ultimate, fictional destination where my kind are accepted into the bosom of society. Boys are NOT supposed to be girls, not now, not ever, but we WILL be girls one way or another – not to do so would, in itself, be a criminal offense...
:straightface:

[Vickie_CDTV]

Some say being fat is the last acceptable prejudice, and as a big person I tend to agree (heck, it is openly endorsed by the lamestream media, and by some government entities.)

[KellyJameson]

A mans identity is easily threatened when it is built on the quicksand of irrationality, for ages this identity has been about not showing weakness by it's use of symbols and behavior.

Crossdressing is a civil war fought between to different types (groups) of men, the ones who want to be free from the irrational rigid masculine roles and those who want to embrace them. The problem is most men at some point in their lives belong to the irrational group and it is only over the course of their lives some see the trap they have stepped into. Added to this is that few women will see the value in having a husband who does not adopt the masculine roles determined for him and benefit her. Society creates identity and it takes great courage and or pain to go against these predetermined roles. This is why so many say their lives are a lie, they go through the motions but their hearts are not in the task. Living lifes of quiet desperation.

Crossdressing will be a stigma until the majority of men do it but than something else will be created to stigmatize.

[SusanQ]

Try being an overweight, cigaret smoking, cross dresser. You'll quickly discover that society isn't all so tolerant of many things, not just cross dressing.

[Nikki A.]

SusanQ I am all three of your choices, and let me tell you I think the smoking is the least tolerated of the three.
I maybe misused the word last stigma, in that I agree that some of you came up with some other things that society frowns on.
The thing is some of these other items are something that you may be able to control or stop, although some are very difficult to do, ie smoking & losing weight, god I've tried to do both and with little success. Being a non fetish CD or TG is more of a mindset of who we are though and no matter how hard we try we always seem to come back to it. I'm not knocking anyone's preferences and I respect the diversity of our group.
I have friends that are all along the spectrum, one of which has told me she sees me as an eventual TS. I don't think that I would ever go full-time and transition, but I do see my self spending more time openly as Nikki when I don't need a job and the kids are on their own. It just feels right and comfortable, not a sexual thrill or am I looking to have relations as a woman.
I just guess what I'm trying to say is that I would like to just be me, without being ridiculed or be afraid for my safety.

[kimdl93]

Change takes time...generations in fact. I'm convinced that we have seen major changes in the way we are perceived. Sure there's a ways to go and we still face social and interpersonal barriers, but things seem better now than ever in my life.

[JohnH]

It used to be respectable for boys to wear dresses. Somewhere along the line some insecure parents got it in their little minds to tell boys that "boys don't wear that" So that pernicious thought was planted in the mind of youth due to their misguided parents. At one time crossdressing was not such a big deal- there are Three Stooges episodes where they wore dresses. So from the 1940's to the present time things regressed. So hopefully things will turn around.

Johanna

[NathalieX66]

It used to be respectable for boys to wear dresses. Somewhere along the line some insecure parents got it in their little minds to tell boys that "boys don't wear that" So that pernicious thought was planted in the mind of youth due to their misguided parents. At one time crossdressing was not such a big deal- there are Three Stooges episodes where they wore dresses. So from the 1940's to the present time things regressed. So hopefully things will turn around.

Johanna

I have pictures of President Franklin Roosevelt wearing dresses as a child from a re-issue of Life magazine. He wore a kilt too, that was the fashion of the time. Boys wore dresses until age 7 back in the old days. Think of it this way: kids changed sizes so rapidly that a dress made sense since they have no inseams.

[Alice Torn]

Johanna, right on about the 3 Stooges crossdressing, and Laurel and Hardy, too! Kelly Jameson- great post.

[PretzelGirl]

Not the last, no. I suspect Adult Babys / infantilism hide much more from the public.

I like the point of this one the most. I went to the Utah Pride festival last year and when I went to the stage, there was a gentleman next to me at about 6'3" and 250-270 lbs. He was in a diaper, an infant outfit, pacifier attached to his chest and sucking on a bottle. I am guessing he would have a harder time shopping in Macy's than I would. Kudos to him for going to the festival.

Nothing is more unaccepted than your own "stigma".