Have any of you confirmed CD out there felt judged for not going full SRS?

[Lillith]

Yes, I'm pretty new, been on looking for good while, but this burning inquiry led me to make a profile. Seriously, I am really coming out of an odd place where I am just realizing how pressured I was making myself feel to give a much harder look at "going all the way" than I think I would haver without feeling like I wouldn't be taken seriously or even judged in some way I have a difficult time putting into words by those that are. I understand that to commit in that way may even take building a strong personality. But, this had gotten the point I felt guilty about the male side & parts I really do like of "him" as well. In truth, my REAL hearts desire was to be able to switch at will. All the sudden, it dawned on me, I ALREADY HAVE THAT, as close as realistically possible anyway. But, the vibe I got (and admittedly this could all be in my head too!) made me feel less of a girl, when I'm a girl, if I didn't WANT to lose the penis for good! As mySO says, and I agree, it's too pretty a thing to get sliced up. Besides, in femme, I like to admire it AS a femme would....I'd miss that too!

Lillith

[NicoleScott]

Judged by who? Maybe it's just that I'm not reading (understanding) your post as you meant, but for me there's a disconnect between the post title and the post body. It sounds like you are a CD, not a TS, and not a likely candidate for SRS. I'm a CD - maybe a TS should weigh in on this.
Many CD's fantasize about being a woman, but fantasy is a long ways from reality. Many CD's get very girly-girly when en femme.

[Marleena]

I'm a bit confused here too.

Are you saying you think you are TS but people tell you you need to transition or you're not TS?

[suchacutie]

Hi Lillith, and welcome!

Tina has been with us for six years, admittedly much less of a time than many. In that time I have felt nothing but reassurance and encouragement. Like your SO, mine "wants her man" at times and that's her right as far as I'm concerned. So, that's that way it will be and it gives me a very satisfied life to have a loving wife who enjoys Tina as well as "her man". My wife's opinion is the most important in my life :)

You are who you are, and no one has the right to judge you. Be true to thine self :)

Tina

[Jenniferathome]

I don't understand the premise. Cross dressing is not related to transition. It is coincident at best. And who is judgng whom? I am a cross dresser. I'm married. I love my wife and have never thought of transition as an option nor felt any such desire and will never transition. You seem to be asserting that cross dressers are headed for transition in general and that simply is not the case for 99.9% of us.

[NathalieX66]

I think I read somehwere than only 2% of transgender people undergo SRS. You have to be trannsexual first (....is clinically transsexual a valid term?). There are plenty of TS' that don't go all the way.
I also read something where 40% of TS's de-transition later on ...don't hold me to it, I don't even know the credibility of this information.

[Kristy_K]

CD's can not get a SRS.

Kristy .

[NathalieX66]

CD's can not get a SRS.

Kristy .

I think this is something set up by WPATH Standards of Care. .....one needs to live 2 years full time.

[JohnH]

Lillith,

I am on M2F HRT, and I not only say no to SRS, but HELL NO!. So don't feel guilty of not wanting to go all the way with SRS. The farthest I might go is an orchiectomy but that is the extent I would do it.

I have never been pressured to go through with SRS.

Johanna

[Kate Simmons]

Not at all Hon. There's really no one out there adequately qualified to do that, myself included.:)

[NathalieX66]

Not at all Hon. There's really no one out there adequately qualified to do that, myself included.:)

you should check out Philadelphia center for Transgender Surgery:
http://thetransgendercenter.com/
Dr. Sherman Leis

[Sara Jessica]

I think a confirmed TS is more likely to be "judged" for not submitting to full-on transition and SRS.

[Aprilrain]

I'm curious who it is you feel is judging you Or are you judging yourself?

Like someone else said, CDs do not have SRS.

[Stephenie S]

Yeah. What she said.

S

[Eryn]

Well, there are one or two people out there on the forum who believe that all CDers are TS in denial, but other than that I've not felt judged at all. We're not in a competition, and SRS isn't the grand prize.

[Sophie_C]

You seem a bit new to this. I say to sit back, relax, stop judging yourself, and it will all become clear and easy. And, yes, being transgender has little to do with crossdressing. See crossdressing like a fetish, say, like people are into leather/pvc, maybe feet, etc. Is that a little bit easier to get?

[docrobbysherry]

Like Marleena, I'm confused too, Lillith! Unless u walk around with your dress over your head and no panties on, how would anyone KNOW whether you're a CD, TS or a Trans-female?
Or, did u just mean on THIS SITE?

Personally, I've met A LOT of CD/TG/TS girls at 3 SCCs. Some of the TSs r now trans-women. I can't recall a judgmental soul in the whole lot of them!

[Contessa]

Lillith

I just love the name lillith and the person who played her on Frazier. Anyway Lillith you're not being judged. No one is keeping a tally of CDers that don't transition. In the book, pg 37 it states if you are a Cd you cannot transition. If you go ahead your name is removed from the register. Just remember the page number and good luck.

Tess

[Pythos]

Actually it is VERY common for people outside the community to think that a guy that crossdresses is actually going to have his penis removed, and become a woman. Just your average person on the street in the middle to the United States. (Well other things would be said to, but let's not get into the non-sense) I have been asked if I was going to go through SRS by my friends when I started wearing skirts, even in male mode. I got asked "so when is the operation?" by someone up until that time I thought was a rather wise and intelligent person.

It is assumed by many that a guy that puts on women's clothing, thinks he is a woman, and therefor must be going through transition later in time.

I have read several posts here that say CDers are just TSs in denial. I have seen that joke that askes "What's the difference between a CDer and a TS? Answer , about 4 years. I of course thinks that is boulderdash, but some here seem to think along those lines.

[Vickie_CDTV]

There have been some TS (not all or most of course but a few) who have looked down on TVs ever since there has been a trans community. It is usually along the lines of they are "not serious" or "they just do it for fun and I do it because I have to" or "they are just too scared to commit to being women". Try not to let it bother you, it is not a new phenomenon, and just be yourself and do what you want to do. If someone looks down on you for doing what you want to do (and not doing what they want to do), the heck with them, you don't need to justify what you do to anyone, just ignore them.

[noeleena]

Hi,

This is about being accepted , for who you are. not what you wear, i have proved this time & time again,

Im accepted first as a person not wether i wear male or female clothes .or a sack over my head.

i move in a big circle of people this is not just with in the trans community & many groups ,

& over 14 years for trans people & iv seen quite a lot ,

.....Some.... trans think they are above others because they have had hormones & surgerys, in other words they deem them selfs as women. & yes do look down on some who are male & love or like to dress & no more than that,

So yes for quite a few people they have set up a pressure to conform to what they have done & are eltist in how they think .

my point will be dont ever think less of your self just because you dress ....only.... dont think because you are ...not ... one of them you have to go thier way.

I have had a few surgerys over the years plus im on hormones because i ...need ... them for my well being . to explain , im not a dresser or trans . so i can look at what your saying from another view point.

I have allso seen jelousy because im different , does it matter . no of cause not .

As iv said many times i dont have to prove who i am or what i am , it comes down to what you see is what you get when you spend time getting to know who i am. its the same for you .

If people cant accept you the way you are then move . as we'd say ship out move camp. you dont belong there,
Real friends accept you the way you are , so my advise is just be comforable in your self be happy being you, & dont let.... any.... one .....dictate .....to you what you should do or pressure you in to being or doing is not for you,

...noeleena...

[kimdl93]

No, I haen't felt "judged". Every person has a different need and a different reality. Don't make the presumption that CDs are the same as TS. Check out the transgender definitions at the beginning of the MtF forum for more information.

[STACY B]

CRAZY talk ,,, Just kick an take the ride .

[Lillith]

No, and "judgedl probably is a hard word to fit the feeling I'm going for. I think my concern is based in part on things I've read such as , " crossdressers have a condition where they value clothes more than people, but true transexuals have a REAL condition of dysphoria...bla bla" and go on to give loads of advice for the latter group. I think I felt that the only way I could ever be known as I truely am would be to pronounce my condition as something I couldn't help, a "birth defect" as some have called it, otherwise I'm just a "sexual deviant". Don't get met wrong, I only am quoting these labels and don't subscribe to them. But, when our thoughts are framed by words and the effort to know ones self is also a journey of shaping definition to try and bring a "oneness" to the collective mass of all we are. How can we avoid but to examine such definition. I think the heart of what bothers me is this idea that to be CD is a "choice" and to be "TS" is not, so acceptance and tolerance is only deserved by those with no choice. I know I probably have a lot on my mind, so hopefully I can make SOME sense

[Marleena]

Lillith neither are a personal choice "it" choses you. The big difference is the TS person needs to change their sex in order to feel right in most cases. Some can get by with just hormone therapy. Don't buy into the all cd's are transsexuals in denial that is brought up here. Also ignore Cd's are inferior rhetoric. We are all just people trying to come to terms with who we are.:)

[Lillith]

Oh yes, of course, I'D never pass the test, I was a "pinecone handgrenade"-type boy as child and although got quite a rush the first time I tried on moms bras and tried to imagine what "being a girl" feels like & touching my male parts w that petspective. I am not and never was "a girl trapped in a boys body" which firmly makes me a CD. I just don't have the history. I fancy the thought I am when I switch, but I can't deny the truth that I am really just a guy who happens to be very conscious of his embryonic start as female and wants to find HARMONY between both sides. I'd be just as discontent as a girl not having my male parts as a guy not having my female parts!

[Lillith]

Just to simplify, by "judged", mean that many give acceptance to those going full SRS, the true transexual, because of common acceptance that they "don't have a choice", but CD's have a choice (or so most believe ) so they are fair game for redicule! Which is why I felt drawn to the acceptance more reddily given to the former group, even to point I may try to convince myself I AM one...which was a VERY dangerous path to take and I just wondered if any others felt this draw and the judgement that manifested it as I did.

[Marleena]

Just be true to yourself Lillith. Only you know where you are going with it. Some people like to try and force their opinions on others. Nobody is inferior, just at different places in the spectrum.

[Lillith]

Who? No one person. Simply the judgedment that lies behind the idea that a TS has "no choice" as they were misaligned as a "birth defect" as some say...but CD's aren't protected by this understanding of it "not being thier fault" and they can "help it" so are open to being judged because they ( WE ) HAVE a "choice".....am I making a bit more sense in my phrasing, it's not easy! Lol

[Marleena]

Who? No one person. Simply the judgedment that lies behind the idea that a TS has "no choice" as they were misaligned as a "birth defect" as some say...but CD's aren't protected by this understanding of it "not being thier fault" and they can "help it" so are open to being judged because they ( WE ) HAVE a "choice".....am I making a bit more sense in my phrasing, it's not easy! Lol

Cder's don't have a choice either. It doesn't go away. You'll get proof of that from others.:)

[LeaP]

... some say...but CD's aren't protected by this understanding of it "not being thier fault" and they can "help it" so are open to being judged because they ( WE ) HAVE a "choice".....l

I don't know anyone who thinks this way.

Lea

[Lillith]

EXACTLY! ;P I switch back to full-time "guy" mode where not wearing my dress, bra, panties, slip, hose, and incognito makeup under my guy clothes cover , usually for wash or just to make going back to underdressing that much more "special" for about 3 days before I start just STARVING for them. First day it's kinda nice to be back to full male side, day two I start to miss here and there, but by end of day 3 just the sight of my SO's clothes or ever more my personal articles are just calling out to me until I throw my whole outfit on in a frenzy and feel "beautiful" & "pretty" & "home?" again and feel a very specific type of saddness as I cover up my female self with drab jeans, boots,, & guy shirt w big black longcoat and present my normal dark & dominant self to world while keep my "pretty" self close to me inside all day as normal. I could just as soon give"her" up as remove my penis, as odd as that may sound!

[Lillith]

I like that! Probably best reflects my current state. I fully underdress everyday, but I wish oftentimes that the world was such a place could be whichever I wanted w/o having cover my dress in rough guy clothes & be accepted by same people who see my guy image. But, it's not and this compromise has made in happy in ways only you gals probably understand. Still, that tinge of saddness as stuff my dress into pants and unstuff my unpadded bra and slide a guy shirt over that still bugs me a little sometimes....

[ReineD]

It sounds like you are a CD, not a TS, and not a likely candidate for SRS. I'm a CD - maybe a TS should weigh in on this.



Are you saying you think you are TS but people tell you you need to transition or you're not TS?

Lilith is saying that she/he feels judged by others and made to feel as if her femme expression is not valid unless she tells people he wants to be a woman. He is saying that she enjoys either alternating or feeling a mixture of both genders at the same time. Expressing her girl self is just as crucial as expressing his guy self.

Lilith, I hear what you're saying. Some members here and I'm sure elsewhere cannot understand the concept of dualgender and feel that unless a TG person wants to transition, they are somehow in denial over "who they really are" or that their femme expression is fetish and/or sexual.

But for some reason, the bulk of the members here who are like you (and my SO), who do feel fully feminine when dressed and it's not about sex or fetish yet who also enjoy their guy sides (and this is not about being in denial or fearing giving in to the inner femme :p), in other words the people who have become at peace with not being part of the (either male or female) gender binary, are strangely silent when it comes to identifying how they feel about themselves.

Instead, they say things like "I don't like labels", or "I don't define myself I just know who I am", and this gives more fuel for some of the other members to believe that what they say isn't valid.

I encourage everyone who feels like Lilith to choose a label and stick to it. Come right out and say that you are dualgender, or bigender, or something! Be more specific than just saying "transgender", since many people still take this to mean TS or "on the way to becoming TS". :p The more of you will do this, the more the community as a whole will understand there is a huge segment of trans people who do not fit the gender binary (they do not fully identify permanently as either one or the other, this is just how it is for them ... pink fog aside) and they are not in denial or fetishists. lol

[TGMarla]

Heck no! I certainly do NOT feel judged. And in fact, most of the transexuals I've ever met or corresponded with applaud my decision to NOT have SRS. It is very important for one to come to some conclusion about where on the ol' transgendered bell curve we are, and I decided that while I have many strong TS tendencies, I'm not really a candidate for SRS, and I have decided to remain as I am. The worst thing one could do to oneself, and I think most transexuals would agree, would be to forge ahead with some profoundly life-changing surgery, at the cost of tens of thousands of dollars and the possible loss of friends and family, only to find that this wasn't the answer you were looking for. I fully support anyone who deems it necessary for oneself to have SRS, but it's not something to be taken lightly, nor is it by any means the right solution for most crossdressers.

[GBJoker]

If I'm understanding this thread correctly, then yes, I do sense the feeling from not only TS's, but norms as well, who think that if I'm not going all the way to SRS, then I'm BS'ing them.

I just remind them of my name, and the fact that I'm jumping and dancing all over and around the line between male and female, while laughing at the fact that every one thinks there even IS a line.

[Miranda-E]

the percentage of TS's that actually get SRS is very small, for a variety of reasons.

[docrobbysherry]

Lillith, it sounds like your referring to some of the TS's that post here. Altho, you've avoided being specific.

"Don't judge a book by the cover", and, "Consider the source", r 2 trite sayings that I think DO apply here! Please remember, there r THOUSANDS of members here. Yet, the same few loudmouth, (guilty as charged!), members do most of the posting. So, don't construe that MOST of the TS members think as u seem to feel they do. Because from my experience, THEY DON'T! And, I probably push the envelope as much as anyone here!

[queenie]

The way I feel about it is that transgender encompasses all aspects of those of us who are gender fluid. What's in a label anyways? I am what I am and that's all that I am. I most likely won't ever be a "woman" but I'm sure as heck not a "man" either.

[ReineD]

The way I feel about it is that transgender encompasses all aspects of those of us who are gender fluid. What's in a label anyways? I am what I am and that's all that I am. I most likely won't ever be a "woman" but I'm sure as heck not a "man" either.

Hi Queenie,

I have a proposition for you. :)

How would you like to help advance the cause for understanding of the condition that describes "not a woman but not a man either", by using a term that describes this? A term that is different than "CD" (which doesn't really describe someone's gender ID, just the fact they like to dress in clothing habitually worn by members of the opposite sex), and different from TS (which describes someone who identifies as a woman for the MtFs). Not a term like "transgender" either. Although everyone fits under the TG umbrella, many people still take it that it either means "TS" or "on the way to become TS", or "not quite sure but I'll use it anyway because it is general enough and I don't like labels".

No. It would be good to pick a new term that helps people understand who you are. It would be good for others who feel as you do to use the same terms too. Then there wouldn't be so much ambiguity, argument, and accusations that anyone who wears a dress and is not TS is either in denial or a transvectic fetishists.

Let's see ... what about a term like "bigender" (alternating between the two genders), or "dualgender" (a constant mix of both genders)? Actually, these terms have been with us for awhile, even though they are seldom used.

:D

[Vickie_CDTV]

I kind of liked Virginia Prince's term "femmiphile", it sounds like it is not just about dressing but the whole scope of being feminine, but it never took off (nowadays it probably sounds too much like "pedophile" to ever be adopted.)

[ReineD]

But that's the issue, Vickie, and the reason so few people understand those who are not TS. No one seems to agree on a term. Everyone wants to come up with their own.

And then everyone throws up their hands and says, "whatever. I don't like labels".

People who do not feel they belong in the gender binary just need to get with a program and stick to it. lol If someone feels they identify with aspects of both genders, then don't you think it would be best to simply find a term to reflect this? Such as maybe bigender (or dualgender)?

Or, they could stick with the ambiguous term, "transgender" (which really describes a variety of people), or as you say, femmiphile (what about girlyphile or womanyphile?), or perhaps genderqueer, polygender, femulates, male lesbians, androgynes, and of course there's always the old standbys (that are really just about the clothes) transvestite and crossdresser. I'm sure I'm missing some. But then the confusion and the arguments about what it all means would just continue.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

wow...

so lillith comes here feeling judged ...for no specific reason....
altho there is a hint when she said she has developed the notion that as ts we get a "pass" and the cd doesnt.... we all know that's not really true..and lilith it may help you to realize its not true....

I think lilith your best bet is to get really good with yourself.. it was hard for me as a transsexual... breaking through a lifetime of socialization caused some scarring!!
the key i learned was to get OK with myself...i learned that my gender didn't mean i was a wrong person... Sticks and stones and all that is a real thing.... so lilith you are ok by me!! hope that helps a little!

What's with the ts bashing/ts envy??...oh well..you can't win...how lame...look in the ts forum at a recent thread where a member talked about maybe i'm not a ts to see the reality of this...
One reason ts women come here is to be there for the many cd's that "realize" or "discover" what their dressing is all about
.
Comments about "ts in denial" and things like that are borne of many years of experience, and its simply not true that anyone (that is credible and caring) is "pushing" somebody to to get srs or "disrespecting" them if they dont....
..if it hurts your feelings, theres nothing i can do about it....unless i misspeak there is no judgement in anything ...if you feel judgement that's about you, not me or anything i say.

srs and transition totally and completely suck....I would not wish dealing with trans-sexuality on my worst enemy...so lay off us, get a grip on your own feelings about yourself and deal with reality..

in the end, regardless of your actions...cd/ts or other, you really have the simple choice of feeling good about yourself and not...

[queenie]

Hi Queenie,

I have a proposition for you. :)

How would you like to help advance the cause for understanding of the condition that describes "not a woman but not a man either", by using a term that describes this? A term that is different than "CD" (which doesn't really describe someone's gender ID, just the fact they like to dress in clothing habitually worn by members of the opposite sex), and different from TS (which describes someone who identifies as a woman for the MtFs). Not a term like "transgender" either. Although everyone fits under the TG umbrella, many people still take it that it either means "TS" or "on the way to become TS", or "not quite sure but I'll use it anyway because it is general enough and I don't like labels".

No. It would be good to pick a new term that helps people understand who you are. It would be good for others who feel as you do to use the same terms too. Then there wouldn't be so much ambiguity, argument, and accusations that anyone who wears a dress and is not TS is either in denial or a transvectic fetishists.

Let's see ... what about a term like "bigender" (alternating between the two genders), or "dualgender" (a constant mix of both genders)? Actually, these terms have been with us for awhile, even though they are seldom used.

:D

Reine,

Propositioning me? I'm married, I'll have you know. I keed, I keed!

If we must assign a label, transgender is fine by me. There are already too many labels out there as people try to pigeonhole themselves into some niche and that leads to more confusion for everyone.

trans- 
1. a prefix occurring in loanwords from Latin ( transcend; transfix ); on this model, used with the meanings “across,” “beyond,” “through,” “changing thoroughly,” “transverse,” in combination with elements of any origin: transisthmian; trans-Siberian; transempirical; transvalue.

From that perspective, transgender to me encompasses anyone who has gone beyond the societal binary gender divide and it doesn't really matter where they fall on that spectrum. I present as male, female and all points in between as my mood and the situation dictates. It's the state of one's gender identity that's incongruous to to their physical/assigned sex. The psychology of it all is way too complex to explain in a simple post, but I'd consider crossdressers as being transgender to an extent. There's that sliver of gender ambiguity in their self actualization that leads to wanting to dress as the opposite sex. When you're riding on the transcontinental railroad, it's still transcontinental whether you board the station in California, Nebraska or anywhere in between.

Transsexual is an entirely different connotation since it implies changing one's physical sex to fix the incongruity in their gender. To an extent, it's a subset of transgenderism and probably the most visible due to the likes of Jerry Springer and other talk shows. Put another way, all Germans are Europeans, but not all Europeans are Germans.

Transgenderism is prevalent everywhere but people just don't see it as such. They categorize it as being "tomboyish" in girls and being a "sissy" in boys. I think people move on, off and across the spectrum all the time until they reach some equilibrium point that's right for them. Transsexualism is the most easily categorized by the lay public since it lies at the extreme and is easily recognized for what it is, they take the mentality that "all Europeans are Germans."

Now that I'm done with this novel, I'll be having a book signing some time next week.

[ReineD]

Queenie, not to beat a dead horse, and "transgender" it is. :)

But (there is always a but, lol), transgender doesn't really describe what type of transgender. It is ambiguous. It is a good, proper general term though, it describes someone who transcends their birth gender to some degree. To what degree? Most people who hear the term have no clue unless they ask a million questions, since the possibilites are endless. Some people just like to wear the clothes for sex. Others want to transition down the road maybe. Some people call themselves that because they are not sure whether or not they are on their way to wanting to be female full time. And on, and on, and on. It's kinda a catch all term for many people because they haven't figured it out for themselves fully yet, and that's OK too. :)

Whereas some people know they do identify with both genders, this is how it is for them, this is where they're at, they know they don't want to transition, they know they don't always identify as men, it is not about sex nor are they in denial. They are, in fact, both genders, aka bigender or dualgender.

But like I said, it's perfectly OK to identify as transgender. It not really all that descriptive though, for people who know who they are.:)




Comments about "ts in denial" and things like that are borne of many years of experience, and its simply not true that anyone (that is credible and caring) is "pushing" somebody to to get srs or "disrespecting" them if they dont....

The joke about two years being the difference between a TS and a CD has been bandied a lot in this forum. As have comments that CDers are guys. While some TSs do believe they are CDs at first and some CDs do identify purely as guys, there are a great many CDs for whom neither of these descriptions fit. And maybe it is only a select few who do not believe (or whose posts come off as if they do not believe) that it is possible for a CDer to identify female and not wish to transition. It is true that not all TSs say these things though, and your point is well taken, but I do understand what prompted Lillith to post what she did.

[queenie]

A term I've been using quite a bit is "gender fluid" and it sums things up pretty well for me.