Is Oedipus our model?

[busker]

Here is the basic beginning of he Oedipus story.
Oedipus was the child of Laius and Jocasta, the ruling couple of Thebes. Eager for future-knowledge, Laius journeyed to the oracle at Delphi who gave him the most unwelcome news that his newborn son would grow up to kill his father and marry his mother. Perturbed by this news, Laius gave his new son to a herdsman and ordered him to be killed. A spike was driven through baby Oedipus' ankles (causing his ankles to become inflamed and earn him his name, which literally translates as 'swollen-footed') and he was left on the side of Mt. Cithaeron to die. However, destiny cannot be avoided that easily and Oedipus survived....
you can read the rest here:
http://www.ancientgreece.com/s/GreekMyths/Oedipus/

I'm one of the CDs who would like to understand why I do what I do, and I know there are others here of the same mind.
I'm inclined to believe that it is more psychological in origin than chemical and that might explain why we didn't all start at puberty as is clear from the many stories related here on the forum. Hormonal changes at puberty are pretty uniform among humans around the world but our psychological lives would be varied and seem closer to an explanation for various starting points.

Freud applied this story in his practice of psychoanalysis and I'm wondering if there isn't some foundation here upon which we might also seek an answer.

Not to be taken literally in our case, we are not going to kill our fathers and marry our mothers, but we can appropriate her clothing and marry her symbolically! We kill off our fathers by ignoring him and identifying with her through her clothing--women's clothing. This might even work as an explanation for those who have SRS--they don't marry their mother's--they become her via surgery.
Many here have mentioned their first experience with CDing was trying on mothers clothing or some of it. some here really identify with underwear that could be the erotic longing for the wife/mother figure. And , this doesn't necessarily cut our those who began late in life.
Often mentioned as reasons for why we are CDs are hormones, DES for some of us older CDs, some claim hobby status, some claim "pleasure" ( which might be interpreted as Oedipus on his wedding night). None of these general things seem to really answer the question , why?. There isn't anything mental or biological, in my opinion, that does not have a reason for its being. We simply haven't identified it yet, or have and ignored it. There has been mention of "brain changes" but that was based on 2 postmortem brains where there might be any possibility for the CD/TG condition. 2 brains does not a population make. We can read anything that we want into that fact. Some look to "hardwiring" but that is likely after-the-fact explanation for lack of something else. Are we born this way? or are we this way due to nurture or malnurture rather than nature.?
In the end there will be one explanation and it will cover all the variations, just like a theory in science.

what are your thoughts?

[Diane Smith]

My mom's femininity certainly inspired my crossdressing, and it was her clothes that I turned to first when I started experimenting. But that is only because she was the most visible and accessible female in my early life, and her closet was physically accessible to me. There was certainly never any sexual component to it that was directed toward her. I would have worn the clothes of any female I could have gotten close enough to (and did, when possible). I took pains to hide my dressing from both my mom and dad, so in that respect, I tried to reject both of them. I don't think my father ever knew or suspected anything; mom might have, but only because it was her closet and drawers I was rearranging all the time. I have problems swallowing a lot of Freud's conclusions, the Oedipal complex among them.

I do have fairly big feet, though. :)

- Diane

[Jacqueline Winona]

Sometimes I feel more like Sissyphus (and not becaue of the root of the name!), but it's a very good analogy. :)

[Shari]

Interesting thread and something I've contemplated on many times.
I think there's alot to be said for the Oedipus theory. Freud wasn't completely wrong about it.
I didn't kill my father or marry my mother but it was mom's clothing I tried on at an early age. It did make me feel closer to her when I wore her things, especially her lingerie. Nothing more than that on the conscious level.
Deep down, who really knows?

[Cynthia Anne]

Very interesting theroy! Right or wrong! Who knows! I too was born this way too! I gave up on fighting it and learned to accept it! I don't blame anyone for it! Unless it's something in the water or milk!!:D Hugs!

[sissystephanie]

There is no chemical part to being a CD. You are born either a male or a female, in almost all cases. Yes there have been babies born with the sex organs of both sexes, but that is a very rare occurance! Crossdressing is a psychological occurance, and virtually entirely mental driven. Those who say that they were "born this way" have just accepted the fact that they are crossdressers and use that point as proof! No reputable doctor would ever tell a person that they were born to be a CD, unless that person was born with dual sex organs!!

[DonnaT]

I believe you'll find a similar discussion at http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?171291-What-is-actually-known-about-the-urge-to-crossdress


We may never know for sure, but genes and hormones are the most likely suspects.

One of my ideas is, think about those who are Intersex. A result of differences in genes and/or their reactions to hormones.

If nearly the whole body (including the brain) can be altered (think CAIS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome)) because of the genes and hormones, or if ones genitalia can be altered, why not the brain alone?

If it were nurture, then why do none of my 4 brothers have the same urge? Heck, the youngest was even dressed as a girl by my mom when she was visiting a friend. And yes, I know for sure he doesn't CD. We were all raised the same otherwise.

The first time I dressed it was like a light switch being turned on. Possibly the endorphins or adrenalin snapping that switch shut, but the switch was already there and poised to be thrown. Likely one reason some do not start until they are older, that being, they hadn't tried dressing before thus the switch was still open.

[Karren H]

Ewww... I wasn't "in love" with my mother.... Just her clothes! Lol.

[ronda]

i think i was wired at birth because i remember wearing dresses, panties and heels at 3 years old learning to hide it at a very young age having had 5 brothers they were brutal about stuff like that.

[EllieOPKS]

Respectfully, reaching for a comparison with "Opie" is a little much. Opie has 3 or 4 kids with his mother? This might be where the banjo came from.

[KellyJameson]

Does someone crossdress as a rejection of their self ,a symbolic form of escape from what is hated or as an expression of what is inside them that is loved that needs to be expressed?

Is crossdressing an act of personal salvation and if so what our we trying to save ourselves from?

[Lorileah]

I don't believe Oedipus wanted to look female. He had a sexual thing for his mother so, no, I don't believe he is a role model. Maybe more some of the "Priestesses" for some of the Gods who were male and presented female. Then again, they often were castrati and many here seem to be firmly attached to that part of their body.

If we are going to be a Greek myth (or deity) we are closer to Tiresias who actually changed gender at least once. He actually had children after the sex change. He was also blinded for seeing Athena (I think) naked.

[Lunchbox]

The whole psychoanalysis models credibility is very weak. I find that cds would better be able to relate with a behaviorist, or cognative theorists. Freud would say there is something underlying that is making us behave the way we do, aka there is something wrong. A behaviorist would say we do what we do because we have conditioned ourselves to feel joy and pleasure in the act of crossdressing. A cognative theorist would say in our minds, we have set our schema to find relief and reduce anxiety as well as obtain happiness in the most logical manner, for us, crossdressing.

I myself rather the cognative-behaviorist route, considering the two schools alone reject eachother, but thats purely for CBT, and theres nothing inherently wrong with being a crossdresser, so CBT is unnecessary unless its to deal with other latent issues such as sexual dysfunctions or phobias.

[Frédérique]

Is Oedipus our model?

More like Hermaphroditus, or perhaps Narcissus – failing that, my model is Pico onii-chan… :)


I'm one of the CDs who would like to understand why I do what I do, and I know there are others here of the same mind. I'm inclined to believe that it is more psychological in origin than chemical and that might explain why we didn't all start at puberty as is clear from the many stories related here on the forum. Hormonal changes at puberty are pretty uniform among humans around the world but our psychological lives would be varied and seem closer to an explanation for various starting points.

I am also one of the CD’s who likes to look into the whys and wherefores of crossdressing, in other words, I'm not suzy1! In my case, the urge to wear girl’s clothes may have originated during puberty, but it took a long time to actually happen, mainly because of my environment, and the lack of any “handy” female clothing lying around – is this psychological or “chemical?” The way I see it, I just wasn’t lucky. With this in mind, I’m highly amused by any and all speculation about the origins of CD’ing. I think you have to be pre-disposed to even try this stuff, i.e. either have a sensitive nature at odds with masculinity, or a highly charged sexual nature that drives experimentation along gender lines. Since I am imbued with BOTH of the latter, I may be lucky after all!

One more question – can chemistry be psychological? :thinking:

[busker]

More like Hermaphroditus, or perhaps Narcissus – failing that, my model is Pico onii-chan… :)



I am also one of the CD’s who likes to look into the whys and wherefores of crossdressing, in other words, I'm not suzy1! In my case, the urge to wear girl’s clothes may have originated during puberty, but it took a long time to actually happen, mainly because of my environment, and the lack of any “handy” female clothing lying around – is this psychological or “chemical?” The way I see it, I just wasn’t lucky. With this in mind, I’m highly amused by any and all speculation about the origins of CD’ing. I think you have to be pre-disposed to even try this stuff, i.e. either have a sensitive nature at odds with masculinity, or a highly charged sexual nature that drives experimentation along gender lines. Since I am imbued with BOTH of the latter, I may be lucky after all!

One more question – can chemistry be psychological? :thinking:
There are real hermaphrodites and since they have 2 natural choices of biological sex, I don't think they qualify as models for crossdressing, Narcissus and self love wouldn't concern clothing so much as it might border on that autog........ia thing. IMO.
There is an interesting article in todays' TIMES
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/17/the-danish-doctor-of-dread/
Kierkegaard, Danish Doctor of Dread - NYTimes.com in which the author writes about Ks ideas of anxiety, that it isn't something to fear, but something that actually makes life interesting. anxiety plays a large part in CD life. The author also says that if K were alive today, he would likely be prescribed xanax ----for anxiety! so yes, I guess psychological could be chemical though a lot of biochemical problems seem to lead to bodily illness like cancer. so I tend to think that rather than an illness related to chemistry, a non-chemical psychology issue is at the root. For some I suppose it is easier to ascribe their desires to "unknown causes" or chemical because it removes the stigma of "mental" as part of our behaviour.Or by not finding out, it allows for a continuation. Perhaps in fear of getting the real answer and then finding out that the desire is no longer there or necessary to deal with an underlying issue. I make no claims to knowing much about psychology or Kiekegaard but I have no qualms about standing on the shoulders of giants if it will help me to understand my world. I am definitely NOT an ostrich. The other thing that makes me think of Oedipus (or something similar) is that crossdressers are mainly/mostly men and if this were chemical then a larger proportion of women would be dressing in a more masculine way and not just the FtM group that exists. Nature would not create such an imbalance in half of the species--women outnumber men and the whole survival strategy would depend on males being available.

[Frédérique]

There are real hermaphrodites and since they have 2 natural choices of biological sex, I don't think they qualify as models for crossdressing, Narcissus and self love wouldn't concern clothing so much as it might border on that autog........ia thing. IMO.

Hermaphroditus may not be the best model in physical or emotional terms, since he unwillingly merged with Salmacis, but I’m referring to a union between the sexes (or genders) at the core level, or spiritually, if you will forgive my artistic license. The truth is that, we, as MtF crossdressers, are actively creating our own mythology by trying to explain, or come to grips with, this curious phenomenon called crossdressing, even though we are anything but fictitious. Like Narcissus, I am enamored with my own (femme) reflection, but I can tear myself away now and then – the obvious associations with classical mythology only makes everything more beautiful…
:battingeyelashes:

[DonnaT]

Like Narcissus, I am enamored with my own (femme) reflection, but I can tear myself away now and then
You aren't the only one. Look at all the many photos a lot of us take ;)