Not So Accepting As I Thought

[mscatie85]

Hello,
Last night me and my SO were having a conversation in bed. The topic was my latest urge / unsuccessful attempt at shaving my chest. I want to do this because I want to get a professional makeover done. In the past my SO has told me her displeasure of seeing my chest shaved as she loves the fact that I am a "real" man. Go figure I find the one women on the planet that loves a hairy chest. Well during the conversation she adds another comment to her usual defense against me shaving:

"When you shave your chest all I can think about is you in a dress and a wig. Don't get me wrong I am still okay with it but why do something like that when you only dress for a minute."

The comment flooded my system with a range of emotions from depression all the way to anger. Depressed because I just came to find out that she is treating my dressing as a passing phase (can't really call it that if I have been doing it longer than I have known her). Angry because the reason I shave my chest is because I want to go out on the town and be as passable as possible. Can't do that looking like a woolly mammoth or i am libel to have something bad happen to me (ridicule, physically hurt, etc). I was even considering purging everything because she made me feel ashamed of what I do. Even now I have the urge just to throw everything in the dumpster. I know that won't solve anything but I just don't know what to do.

I just feel like everything she has said about my dressing (the encouragement mostly) has all been a lie from day one.

Do you have any advice for me how I can approach this subject with my SO? I really don't know what to do.

[Millie]

Hi
I'm new here. I have just let my SO know that I love to CD after 20 years of marriage. I was surprised that it was a turn on for her. She loves when I dress up. Anyway enough about me. I would not feel ashamed of who you are despite what your SO thinks. You may want to tell her shaving is all part of being who you are, besides it grows back. I am a pretty hairy person, but when I shaved myself my SO loved me being smooth. You should please yourself first, if not you will never be happy in life.

[BRANDYJ]

You are only 26 and you have years ahead of you. If you love your wife, as she no doubt loves you, you need to understand her feelings and for now, accept her limits. This is something that will be with you for years to come. Why not be thankful for her acceptance and live within her boundaries and comfort zone? In time, she may expand those boundaries and allow you more freedom wiht your shaving your chest and whatever else it is you want. For now, I'd be happy with what you have in an accepting wife. If you slow down, she may become more accepting. if you pout about it and push for MORE, MORE now, you might find yourself with a wife that does a 180 on you. You need to find a way to communicate with her and express your appreciation for her acceptance and that you can understand her views.

[~Joanne~]

To be honest, when I decided to shave (everything but my arms, which I trimmed down very low) I never bothered to ask if I could as it was my body and I have never had to give her permission to do anything to hers. After doing so though she has never said a word about it and I don't even think she has noticed.

This doesn't apply to everyone though. Each girl has their own situation and things that prevent them from doing the things that they would like to do. If Your SO doesn't want you to shave maybe a compromise could be made and ask her if you can trim it down at least. Maybe in time she may want to see what your body is like totally shaved, maybe not.

It sounds as if your SO is some what accepting, not completely accepting so pushing things may not be in your best interest. When she made the comment that you only dress a minute, you should have taken the time to explain to her that this dressing isn't a minute passing phase instead of bottling it up to eat at you.

I hope things work out :)
Joanne

[Karren H]

Just validates my position that there is no such thing as acceptance.... Only varying degrees of tolerance...... Your young and as long as she knew before you became significant....... If this is a deal breaker then time maybe its time to move on??

[Laura912]

Brandy described it well. It does sound a wee bit like you are pouting. If it has not gotten too warm where you are you could go out wearing a cami under a mock turtle neck sweater and no one would know.

[Babeba]

I think you need to have another talk with your wife, and that you need to tell her what it is you want out of dressing. She does need to know you plan on going outside; what if someone who knows you both sees you and recognizes you, then talks to her about it? Knowing that you dress, but not that you dress outside, may make things rather touchy.

There are many styles which do not show a lot of chest yet are pretty and feminine; scarves, high necked blouses, nice jackets ( is the weather still spring unseasonable where you Re?). What if you trimmed/shaved the top, then left the rest? You could bring up that sort of Manscaping with her.

[Jacqueline Winona]

Tough situation, and I get it- my wife doesn't care for chest hair- but still was like "OMG, what did you do to your chest hair?" when I shaved just the top portion, that was more grey than black now.
You got lots of good advice here, but it sounds like your relationship is strong enough where you can talk one more time about why you want to shave, what you plan to do. The issue might not be just the hair but the idea of you going out- maybe she thinks you're staying home so long as you don't shave, and home is where her comfort zone is.

[Aylineira]

I think that your emotions are valid. However, I don't think she's been lying to you. I mean this is something tough to deal with since society has molded our concepts of what a man should be.

Within a marriage there has to be compromises. OK so you can't shave your chest...it's not the end of the world. Some of the others here have completely lost their wives just because of our CD nature.

In my opinion, she will slowly accept you more and more the way you want to be. But for now you have to go by her pace. She will one day see that being a CD is not just a passing phase. My own wife has said that she doesn't even see me wearing a dress anymore... she just sees me. And hopefully one day it will be the same for you.

[Kristyn Hill]

If you want to stay married then a lot more talks will need to ensue. If you want to bridge the gap of her tolerance as Karren explained then another style may be order. Report back as the progression goes and I hope it all works out where both of you can be happy.

[Jocelyn Rose]

You may find that her real fear is not you shaving your chest, but you mention that you want to go out on the town. If she knows that it may be that she fears for your safety. Ultimately if she knows this is part of you and it is not going to change then I feel like both of you can reach an understanding of the situation. The way you do that is establish boundaries for your dressing and arrive at compromises you both can live with.

There is probably a lot of background to this situation that we are not aware of (and you don't mention here) and since I am very new here I wouldn't know either. Good luck in your conversations and maybe try to keep all the emotions in check.

[suchacutie]

As with most relationships, it is all about careful communication and compromise.

One process that inhibits both of these necessities is misinterpretation. Each of us has a "world view". That is, we each have a set of experiences that we bring to every interpretation of every scrap of information we absorb. The problem comes when the world view of the speaker and the world view of the listener do not completely overlap. In that case, most often, the full meaning of the information being transferred is not communicated, and can be badly miscommunicated!

Before you jump over the edge, I would hope that you'd ask you wife if you understood her correctly, and if she understood you correctly. Talk about how hard it is to convey experiences and innermost feelings about this issue and emphasize that you are dedicated to not make a mistake because of a lack of real understanding.

In all honesty, you really haven't been married long enough to have overlapped your world views completely yet. When you've had more life together than apart you'll probably have a better overlap :)

Talk with her sincerely. Use your femme-side mind to help to understand her position before making long-term decisions.

my best,
tina

[shawnsheila]

It wasn't until recently that my wife came to accept and even support me on my CDing after 7 years of non-acceptance. The change was when she attended a PALS meeting and got to talk to other wives of cross dressers as well as see a counselor who specializes in gender identity. Since then she started giving me fashion tips and even bought a closet for me to hang/store my clothes/shoes but she still like it when i am "manly" i.e. not shaving my legs/chest or arm pit hairs (which really limits what I can wear but I'll gladly take what she allows after 7 years) She did respond nicely about my hairy leg by saying "I didn't realize how sexy you are with furry legs until now" so it was a more positive way to let me know she does not like silky smooth legs unless they are hers

[Daphne Renee]

I agree with the others.. You should talk to your wife .. You do have to be happy with yourself but shaving your chest is a small battle. After some time she might come to understand you more. It wont happen overnight but if you both love each other you can find a happy medium.

[Confetti]

Hello...
Sorry to hear this seems like a fleeting comment that should not have been said.Perhaps, making this a joint project like getting ready to do a show or halloween.Don't throw out the things that make you happy.I will appologise for her comment being rude.It is needed you shave and tell her either way you do not like the hair anyway.

[Cheryl T]

Stop for a moment and think...
Are you perhaps moving ahead too fast?? You said she was "accepting" and that you want to shave so that you can have a makeover. I'm sure there are plenty of outfits you could wear for your makeover that would not be "revealing" of your furry issue. Then you said you want to do it so that you can be as passable as possible and go out on the town.
Consider her feelings before you rush headlong into what could ruin a good relationship.
When my spouse first found out we were younger and less secure with each other. I hid it away again for years until it became something that I had to do for me. By the time I brought this out again we were much more "together" and she found it easier to investigate and learn about. It still took a little while but now she is supportive and accepting and we go out all the time together and have even taken a "girls only" vacation together.
Rethink your desires and be open and honest with her. This is not something that is easily understood and perhaps you are just rushing ahead faster than she is willing or able to go.

[Pretty Nails]

You are very lucky. She knows you have a femmself and is still there with you. Many are not so lucky. Take care of her and talk to her - a lot.

I did not ask my wife when I shaved my legs and nether regions but she was ok with it. She accepted the legs and liked the other areas of new found smoothness. She did ask me to leave my chest hair - she likes the look and feel and it works well for HER. I would just as soon shave it all off but she also needs her man.

Crossdressing like just about anything else requires some compromise. I feel that you should take the fashion advise given here and then move slowly with your mate. If you respect her feelings and insecurities she may be more accepting as you move on together.

[kimdl93]

Megan, take a moment to let your anger pass. I think this was a very helpful and constructive conversation. Your SO is talking to you about her reactions and feelings with regard to your dressing. And she's said she's still OK with it. What she's asking though, seems to be a reasonable place for both of you right now.

I know, you're in a hurry to get out into the world. But honestly, this isn't a race. Take your time, keep your focus on building and maintaining an open and mutually supportive relationship. And perhaps you could ask her to describe how the mental image of you in a wig and dress affects her. Don't try to talk her out of her feelings....try to understand them and be responsive to them.

[JessHaust]

I have been out and about for several months now, with shaved chest, and really just about everything else! My wife is very supportive and accompanies me to most of my outings. The one thing she does not like is the lack of chest hair, and it was a big issue at first. She is better now, I don't think she likes it any better, but the shock has worn off, and she has accepted it. if I grew it back tomorrow she would be pleased to say the least, but that is probably not going to happen!

[Katesback]

Perhaps your wife was under the impression when you first told her that this CD stuff was a stay at home ever so often sort of thing. As time went by she came to realize that it has been escalating which is pretty much the standard thing for CDs. Perhaps she is putting her foot down and setting a limit.

That is her right. Rember she married a man and wants a man.

It is also your right to do whatever you want to. Nobody has a right to tell you you cant.

The downside of this is that most of the time it does not go well in marriage. So you might wish to sit down and decide what you want to do and if its CD then you need to tell her so someone can make a decision to stay in the relationship or move on.

Katie

[Contessa]

I am sorry to have to report this but I am going to have to say that it is not the hairy chest that is the problem. You are becoming a threat to her femininity. You might be sexier than her, she thinks. I am sorry I can't believe all that stuff about losing your hairy chest. I have probably a quarter of the hair on my chest than you have. My wife does not want it shaved off but what of having to do it for other reasons.

To me I just think it is a control issue, sorry I just can't get past that. Every woman although soft and smooth is not nice. I think some women have mean streaks too. She is losing control of her world. But shouldn't you have control of your life too. Purchase a pair of clippers and get the hair as low as possible. Then shave to as smooth as you want. Hey this is not mean it is for better or worse. She may be a bit shaken up but she can get over it. It has happened before and it will happen again. I have had to get over things about my wife. Husbands don't have to be pushed around to be husbands and good husbands for that matter. Wives are grown people too. They can't always get their way on everything husband. I still her and I probably always will but I can't be told I can't be happy unless she's happy first.

I am as much of a girl as I can be. Trying to get even more girly all the time, so I can be more manly as I have control of my own life. I am now stronger that both sides of me are in harmony. One is not being suppressed while the other is miserable. Though we are all different. Sorry to rant but my and your lives(you know what I mean) are in this together.

Tess

[BRANDYJ]

Perhaps your wife was under the impression when you first told her that this CD stuff was a stay at home ever so often sort of thing. As time went by she came to realize that it has been escalating which is pretty much the standard thing for CDs. Perhaps she is putting her foot down and setting a limit.

That is her right. Rember she married a man and wants a man.

It is also your right to do whatever you want to. Nobody has a right to tell you you cant.

The downside of this is that most of the time it does not go well in marriage. So you might wish to sit down and decide what you want to do and if its CD then you need to tell her so someone can make a decision to stay in the relationship or move on.

Katie

I disagree with Kate's post where I underlined and made it bold in the above quote.
No, it is not your right to do what you want. When you marry, it's a union as being one. Both need to compromise on what each wants. To ignore that half of the two in that union is to ignore respect, appreciation, care and concern for the other. You don't have the right to do as you please IF you want the marriage to last. Think twice and think hard how important your marriage is to you. If you can be selfish enough to do as you please and disregard your wife's feelings, then do the both of you a favor and end it.
My relationship with my SO is way to important to me to do as I want wihtout considering her feelings first. I do as I want because what I do is alright with her. If not, then I don't do it.

[JessHaust]

I am sorry to have to report this but I am going to have to say that it is not the hairy chest that is the problem.

I have to disagree with you, It can (although does not have to) be a problem with the chest hair only. That is my wife's only issue and I'm sure there are others like her out there.

[Anita Luken]

Hi Megan; go slow with your SO. Be patient, don't push to much to quick. Also, DO NOT PURGE!! It NEVER works, you just end up regretting it and going out and buying new and missing some things you threw away. The professional makeover sounds really exciting. I live in South Central Wisconsin BTW. Best of luck. Anita

[Chickhe]

Ask her this... if you started reading GQ did man scaping, took up a sport and shaved your body hair would it make a difference? Would she accept it from you if you told her how to style her hair? What clothes to wear?

its all the fantasy nonsense girls learn...not all men have natually hairy chests you know.

The mistake you made is telling her why... maybe you should have just done it and said nothing besides you don't like feeling like an ape.

[Aprilrain]

Even now I have the urge just to throw everything in the dumpster.

You could throw her in the dumpster:lol:

and what is it with crossdressers wives and body hair? Come on girls embrace your inner lesbian! why else do you think you married a man who dresses like a woman:lol:

[RADER]

My wife is OK with my dressing; But she has told me that my very hairy chest belongs to her.
She loves to run her fingers through the thick, now graying hair.
If this makes her happy, and she even lets me wear baby doll nighties to bed, than she gets
the hair. Marriage is about give and take, and I respect her wishes.
Rader

[VickysBFF]

Megan: As to the actual issue of shaving a part of/or all of your body hair, depending on how hirsute you are it grows back pretty quickly. Shaving body hair is not something permanent; it is temporary. Way back when I started and wanted to shave my body hair my SO was a bit apprehensive but after doing it she liked the results.

[busker]

I disagree with Kate's post where I underlined and made it bold in the above quote.
No, it is not your right to do what you want. When you marry, it's a union as being one. Both need to compromise on what each wants. To ignore that half of the two in that union is to ignore respect, appreciation, care and concern for the other. You don't have the right to do as you please IF you want the marriage to last. Think twice and think hard how important your marriage is to you. If you can be selfish enough to do as you please and disregard your wife's feelings, then do the both of you a favor and end it.
My relationship with my SO is way to important to me to do as I want wihtout considering her feelings first. I do as I want because what I do is alright with her. If not, then I don't do it.

Brandy, I'd have to say that I agree with Kate for the reason that TELLING is commanding, and that to me strikes a note of a parent-child relationship which shouldn't occur in a marriage. If it is an EQUAL union, then asking, discussing is the appropriate thing--you tell your children what to do until they become adults, and then it is THEIR choice in doing what is appropriate for them. I have a suspicion that a lot of compromise has many underlying causes that have nothing to do with cding, but this is not the place to discuss that. My biggest concern is why someone so young and probably recently married is in such a hurry to go out and strut her stuff in public. Maybe the marriage was a bad idea to begin with. IMHO.
ps hair has absolutely NOTHING to do with manliness as there are many cultures around the world where males have little or no body hair and it would be insulting to say they weren't manly from lack of chest hair. It is simply an argument that doesn't fly--CHEST HAIR is just a WESTERN male concept of manliness because most women don't have it.

[Jenniferathome]

That's not how I read her comment at all. Her statement about "dressing for a minute" strikes me as a comparison of the time you are in girl mode vs boy mode. Undoubtedly, she is correct. You spend just minutes in girl mode and chest shaving lasts days. While I thinks he should have some input into shaving, that is limited to her opinion. It's your body and it is only hair, which will grow back. My read is you are being too harsh. You have an accepting wife. Cherish that.

[Sandra]

Right firstly no one that the right to tell anyone what they should be doing with their own body.

You need to sit down and talk to her more about why you want to do this, she also needs to realise that it is not a passing phase and it is here to stay.

[ReineD]

Just validates my position that there is no such thing as acceptance.... Only varying degrees of tolerance...... Your young and as long as she knew before you became significant....... If this is a deal breaker then time maybe its time to move on??

I disagree with this.

I can try to explain why a wife may be scared about the shaving and as with anything else, there are different layers to this.

It is possible for a wife to come to understand that it is necessary to remove tell-tale male gender cues from parts of the body that show when a CDer goes out in public. Women's necklines are lower than men's (even round necklines that do not plunge), and some men have chest and back hair that grow quite high.

But, if a wife feels that a husband wants to shave his body in areas that do not show, or she sees that her husband wants to wear plunging necklines that appear to a wife as if her husband wants to be attractive to other men, she might begin to wonder if her husband doesn't secretly harbor a desire to have a more feminine body, in other words if it is more than just presentation in order to not be pointed to in public as being a man in a dress, and why he would want to do this. This is when many wives get queasy about the secondary body transformations. They do not know how far the CDing will go, if the shaving is the beginning of further changes down the road.

As accepting as I am, I had a devil of a time understanding why my SO would want to wear a bathing suit (that reveals much more of the body than a blouse & skirt) out in public, especially when 2 years before she had said she could not understand why anyone would want to do this. I also had a difficult time understanding, if my SO enjoyed being a guy the way he said did, then why on earth would he want to do such un-guy things as wear long fingernails, shave legs even when he wasn't dressing, pierce his ears, in short compromise his guy look in guy mode? Did this mean that he no longer wished to look like a guy in guy mode?

Now I do understand, but it was a process. So please be sure and discuss with your wife THOROUGHLY your motives for doing what you wish to do, so that you and she can get on the same page. This will be difficult, but it is necessary and there is a risk that you wish to go further than your wife feels comfortable. If this is the case, better to deal with it now than later.

Your wife cannot understand how a CDer feels internally. She has only seen either men or women in her world up til now and until the two of you talk about this in great detail, it is difficult for her to depart from the "either he is a guy or a girl" attitude.


I am sorry to have to report this but I am going to have to say that it is not the hairy chest that is the problem. You are becoming a threat to her femininity. You might be sexier than her, she thinks.

This is complete and utter nonsense and it is an entirely superficial view of what many wives go through when they first see their husbands wanting to look like a woman. :p

[ReineD]

Reine,

Since you're giving your perspective as a woman, I'd like to give you my perspective as a man

Thanks for your perspective! I am familiar with what you say, however my point was this is exactly the type of communication that needs to happen between husband and wife. There is no way that your wife or any other wife can come close to guessing a CDers motives for dressing unless she is told exactly what you say.

My own SO didn't like to talk about her motives so much (it still isn't her favorite topic) and it made it difficult for me to "get it". He would say he was a guy, yet she certainly didn't look like a guy (with shaved legs and chest, clipped arm hair, painted toe nails, pierced ears, and getting laser facial hair removal) even when she wasn't dressed. I kept filling in the blanks with what I thought I knew about gender, which up until I met my SO was, there were women, there were men, and I also had a vague sketchy knowledge in the back of my head (from the media) that there were also some men who wanted to be women and I was never going to be in a relationship with any of them, since most of them were in movies or lived far, far away. lol :p

I suppose this is why I came to the forum after having been with my SO, to read the motives that my SO was reluctant to discuss with me. And then I had to sort through all the threads from CDers who fantasized about wanting to be with men, who said they would be women in a flash if they could, who said that no sexual experience with any woman ever came close to solo sessions when they were dressed, and on, and on. I can't tell you how many times I left my SO's house in tears when I felt we weren't in synch about something and I had ascribed the reasons for this to the things I had read in this forum.

This was many years ago and I have since developed what I think is a pretty good handle on various aspects of CDing and also being transsexual. I also know my SO a great deal better than I did at the time and I feel extremely comfortable with where we're at as regards gender expression. But, I don't know how many wives would read as many threads as I have, would ask as many questions directly to the CDers in this forum, would go outside this forum to read as much research as I did, when faced with an uncommunicative husband. My life circumstances enabled me to do this at the time, but if I had had as many things on my plate with job, kids, family, etc, as most people, I don't think I would have had the time or the energy.

This is why I so strongly recommend all CDers to have these discussions with their wives more than with other people in this forum! :D

[DonnaT]

I shave my legs and pits, but my wife does not want me to shave my chest, and if I shorten the hair on my arms, she notices right away.

Thus, when i go out, I wear something that covers the chest so the hair isn't seen. That's a whole lot easier than having my wife angry at me. I love her too much to want her to be angry with me.

Accordingly, I think of our love first, before doing something she's less tolerant of. That love keeps the depression at bay.

[KimberlyJean]

I never knew that shaving your chest was such an issue. I had a shaved chest prior to us dating so it was not a change for her, she shaved my arm pits for the first time and when she brings up the shaved pits I always remind her that she did it. Now my legs on the other hand she does not like me to shave, so I don't shave them while she is home. I am hoping for the gradual acceptance(she has known for over 10 years) but for the most part it is don't ask don't tell.

[Maria 60]

Women are women, can't figure them out for the life of me. When i shaved my chest and legs she didn`t notice till 2 weeks later. Sometimes sex with Maria then no sex with Maria, take the wig off why are you taking the wig off. You have to much stuff, i am going to the mall doe`s Maria need anything. It`s one thing today and another tomorrow. I try to take nothing to heart and see what tomorrow brings.

[Miriam-J]

My wife is very supporting and accepting, but we've always agreed that I need to be a man first and a CD second. This matches my needs well, and still ensures that she gets the kind of guy she always wanted. That said, we've had a lot of discussions in the last couple months about when my CD habits intrude on her perception of me as a guy. We're not sure about the tipping point yet, but it's somewhere around the application of full makeup and/or a wig. It's important to know the tipping point so I can sufficiently balance my needs and hers.

As for chest hair, I have copious amounts and it most certainly prevents the wearing of many of the fashion options. Yet I retain the chest hair because it is one of her favorite physical features - she loves to run her fingers through. Because I love her and respect her needs, I will always retain my chest hair but can shave my neck to a somewhat lower point than most people (barely noticeable). I have to choose clothing options that cover my chest, but this is easily done with high-necked sweaters or camisoles (sometimes worn backwards). It's really not that bad of a compromise, though these fashions do work better in winter than summer.

Acceptance most definitely does not mean that we can do whatever we want, regardless of our partner's feelings. A little give and take is part of every facet of a relationship, so why not this too.

Miriam

[busker]

Reine,

I have to say, I really enjoy the perspective of the "gg's" on this website. It gives the conversations opinions that are more down to Earth, and part of the reason I got on this forum was to find some advice and answers.

Since you're giving your perspective as a woman, I'd like to give you my perspective as a man:

I've been progressing. Panties > bras > stockings > shoes > dresses > wig > makeup. All of these came in steps.

For me, part of it a desire to try something new. Part of it is curiosity. Part of it is the fact that was standing in the mirror in panties, a bra, some stockings and shoes, and thought, "A dress would kind of bring this all together..."

I was kind of good with just the clothing, but recently I've been tempted to go out. I don't know why, but I feel like Saudi housewife cooped up and never let out, so recently I've been shaving my legs, painting my nails, putting on makeup...

Some stuff I really like now. I liked my legs shaved and both sets of nails painted. Sometimes I really feel feminine and like lying on the couch in panties, bra and slip, looking at my painted nails. It just feels good.

But my wife doesn't like any of it. I don't dress at all in front of her, but I will dial back some of the stuff for her sake (re-grow hair, not wear panties on certain occasions) and then I'm back in man mode again. It doesn't bother me that much, since that's part of who I am, but through some of the arguments that we've had, I know she's wondering if she's going to come home one day to a complete girl or a crossdresser who likes men, and for her there's going to be nothing left to love.

I really doubt those things will happen, but then I never imagined I'd be at a store in a dress shopping for women's clothing either. Life's a crazy one, and I think you just have to guess what will happen, roll with the punches, and do what is right for you.

Personally, I want both my female self and my wife, but I don't know if I can have both. I don't want to be alone, just left with my crossdressing, but I also don't want to be together and live by some of the ultimatums that my wife has thrown out before (get rid of everything type of stuff)
.
I guess there are no easy answers.
The fact that men crossdress probably undermines the relationship even for "accepting" wives or "tolerating" wives. I often wonder what clothes has to do with femininity anyway. Clothes are the honey, men are the bees. Can one really say that Audrey Hepburn, Sophia Loren, MM, Kim Novak in the nude would be less feminine for it? And, of course, wanting to go out must set off bells of all kinds because that too has nothing to do with expressing the "woman within". Women are women no matter what their state of dress, and suggesting otherwise is perhaps some left-handed compliment. IMO.


Women are women, can't figure them out for the life of me. When i shaved my chest and legs she didn`t notice till 2 weeks later. Sometimes sex with Maria then no sex with Maria, take the wig off why are you taking the wig off. You have to much stuff, i am going to the mall doe`s Maria need anything. It`s one thing today and another tomorrow. I try to take nothing to heart and see what tomorrow brings.

It could be that some things aren't noticed due to the phenomenon called Persistence of Vision. When I wore a full beard for years on end and then shaved, it also took people weeks to realize that the something "different" about me was my beard was gone. It is a problem when we get used to seeing some things unchanging over long periods of time, Lookm at a lightbulb,see the filament, close your eyes and you still see it.POV

[Bree Wagner]

Before you jump over the edge, I would hope that you'd ask you wife if you understood her correctly, and if she understood you correctly. Talk about how hard it is to convey experiences and innermost feelings about this issue and emphasize that you are dedicated to not make a mistake because of a lack of real understanding.

Such good advice for so many situations. For my wife and I, even when we hear the words coming out of each other's mouths, we so often don't get the message. It comes back to haunt you with the dreaded "Were you even listening to me" and the response is " I heard every word you said" yet no one was really communicating.

Good luck clearing up any misperceptions and really communicating instead of just talking.

-Bree

[Silentpartner GG SO]

My wife is very supporting and accepting, but we've always agreed that I need to be a man first and a CD second. This matches my needs well, and still ensures that she gets the kind of guy she always wanted. That said, we've had a lot of discussions in the last couple months about when my CD habits intrude on her perception of me as a guy. We're not sure about the tipping point yet, but it's somewhere around the application of full makeup and/or a wig. It's important to know the tipping point so I can sufficiently balance my needs and hers.

As for chest hair, I have copious amounts and it most certainly prevents the wearing of many of the fashion options. Yet I retain the chest hair because it is one of her favorite physical features - she loves to run her fingers through. Because I love her and respect her needs, I will always retain my chest hair but can shave my neck to a somewhat lower point than most people (barely noticeable). I have to choose clothing options that cover my chest, but this is easily done with high-necked sweaters or camisoles (sometimes worn backwards). It's really not that bad of a compromise, though these fashions do work better in winter than summer.

Acceptance most definitely does not mean that we can do whatever we want, regardless of our partner's feelings. A little give and take is part of every facet of a relationship, so why not this too.

Miriam

Miriam - thats such a lovely post - I feel sure that if more folk here had your attitude, they would get so much more support from their SO's

[Di]

I just came to find out that she is treating my dressing as a passing phase (
Have you given her the impression thats all it is or did she read it that way?

You need to talk....REALLY? talking about purging and everything...when it could be a missunderstanding. Talk and get on the same page!

And if she has known only for a short time....she might not really understand.
AND besides all that!!!!!! If that is the only thing...she needs to hang on to
( might be THE thing that trips her trigger...who knows) in the scheme of things is that so much to ask?
Maybe in the future it will not be that big of a deal to her...but it might be her thing about you that she loves and has a fear of losing it
Talk to her ...do not quess
and for petes sake do not purge....your buying everything all over ( and you will) surely will NOT make her happy.

[Lorileah]

There are a couple "tells" here that may shed some light.

It sounds like you still have some issues with dressing yourself. When she says you only dress for a minute the first thing I thought is this is a fetish for you. You get dressed, play a bit (hopefully more than a minute), then quickly undress. Is this because your need is finished? Or because you don't want to be seen dressed? Or because you worry about her accepting you (this seems likely). So she probably does see it as a passing thing or as a fetish that does not include her (and in that case you are lucky she allows it. Most GG's don't like being left out of the intimacy department). remember if you shave it will be awhile before it grows back and when you are still not sure about being "outed" you will read hundreds of posts here, mostly about leg shaving, where you will have to worry about getting caught as it were.

The other part is why do you think she is lying? She has told you how she feels about one aspect of you dressing. Her feelings are valid and there are many here who would kill to have 1/4 the acceptance you have. Yes, we understand the wanting to "blend" or "Pass" feelings you have, but your wife has feelings too. It would be wonderful to have 100% acceptance. Even in my case it was maybe 99% because I wanted to dress "sexy" and she didn't think it was appropriate. This little speed bump is minor in the big scheme of things. Wear a turtleneck. You probably shave at least to your clavicle, she probably would not object to a little more down the middle, but leave her playground alone.

Make some adjustments. One thing you may think about is a breast plate. Pricy maybe but cheaper than a second bed in another room or a divorce. This seems a little thing to me. A thing that you can compromise on. Little steps. Let her have her comfort zone and make it work with yours. Push too hard and over think this and you may find you have plenty of time to shave your chest while you wait for your microwave dinner to finish.

[sometimes_miss]

<snip> In the past my SO has told me her displeasure of seeing my chest shaved as she loves the fact that I am a "real" man.
<snip>
"When you shave your chest all I can think about is you in a dress and a wig. Don't get me wrong I am still okay with it but why do something like that when you only dress for a minute."
<snip>
I just feel like everything she has said about my dressing (the encouragement mostly) has all been a lie from day one.
Do you have any advice for me how I can approach this subject with my SO? I really don't know what to do.
What she sees is moving further away from being the man she fell in love with. The 'slippery slope' thing; people who don't crossdress have no knowledge of how it feels. All they know is what they see, and of course, what they've heard in the media. When they see any of us 'extending' our feminine appearance, it's a danger sign for them that we may be more than 'just a crossdresser', not to mention losing the attractive guy they thought they knew.
Kind of like, you know, marrying a beautiful woman, who gradually then gains 75 pounds of weight, cuts her long hair off, and starts wearing baggy overalls all the time. The image of the person we were attracted to changes enough to kill the attraction. We have to be careful not to destroy what attracted our mates to us in the first place, and unfortunately, embracing our 'girl side' often does exactly that: As we do more and more things to look more feminine, that of course makes us appear less masculine, and at some point, we cross the line where they can't see us as sexy guys any more.
Advice? Only shave a bit where your skin 'peeks out' from under the clothes; the 'V' at the neckline, maybe hands, and let the outfit cover the rest. And, avoid mirrors. When all you can see is the pretty clothes, you can easily imagine how the rest of you might look.
Tread carefully. And SO who accepts at all is a very, very rare thing. Don't let the pink fog push you to the point where she can't deal with it any more. The dating world isn't filled with women who want to date crossdressers.
JMHO.

[Aprilrain]

if my SO enjoyed being a guy the way he said did, then why on earth would he want to do such un-guy things?

You mean like grooming? :heehee:



I kept filling in the blanks with what I thought I knew about gender, there were women, there were men, and I also had a vague sketchy knowledge in the back of my head (from the media) that there were also some men who wanted to be women, most of them were in movies or lived far, far away. lol :p

And were abhorrent to me, I might add!

This was my thinking as well with regards to my own CDing, sexuality and gender issues. Its a wonder we (CDs/TSes) survive with internal conflict like this.

[ReineD]

This was my thinking as well with regards to my own CDing, sexuality and gender issues. Its a wonder we (CDs/TSes) survive with internal conflict like this.

Yes, I can believe it. It can't be easy going against what we are all socialized to believe and honestly I admire the courage of all the survivors here. :hugs:

[Millie]

It really is a shame that many SO have a problem with their men CDing. But yet when we are men, they usually through the "can't you be more sensitive about things" ploy. Don't know what women want. I also liked dressing for a little bit of the time, just so I wouldn't get "caught". Since I told my SO, I can't stay out of a dress at home. The wife is very supportive and is turned on by it. Should have let her know a long time ago. She is the only person that knows. In fact we just came home from the mall shopping for me (Millie). I was very suprized when the wife was picking out things for me that would make me look hot. Believe me I just don't want to CD for the sake of it being just a fetish I like looking like a woman and want to look good but not cheap. My SO has also challenged me to go out this weekend with her and frequent some of the clubs in town dressed up with her. Up until now, I had some doubts about CDing, but my wife has made me come out per say. I do feel for the few here who are having problems with their SO. I would only hope that they would communicate more with each other to satisfy both of their needs and expectations. My wife knows I'm a man not a woman, we both have mutual respect for each other and for who and what we are. Good Luck to you all. Love Millie

[Alice Torn]

I can understand the dilemna. I want to go swimming and hot tubbing at the community center, but, am afrais to go all shaved and hairless. So, i only shave SOME of my chest and body hair. What you could do, is compromise, by only shaving some of the hair, OR, by only wearing tops and dressed which cover up all the body hair. I do that often. No one sees it. However, in bed with SO, is different. Compromises can be made.

[KimberlyJean]

Women's necklines are lower than men's (even round necklines that do not plunge), and some men have chest and back hair that grow quite high.

But, if a wife feels that a husband wants to shave his body in areas that do not show, or she sees that her husband wants to wear plunging necklines that appear to a wife as if her husband wants to be attractive to other men, she might begin to wonder if her husband doesn't secretly harbor a desire to have a more feminine body, in other words if it is more than just presentation in order to not be pointed to in public as being a man in a dress, and why he would want to do this. This is when many wives get queasy about the secondary body transformations. They do not know how far the CDing will go, if the shaving is the beginning of further changes down the road.

As accepting as I am, I had a devil of a time understanding why my SO would want to wear a bathing suit (that reveals much more of the body than a blouse & skirt) out in public, especially when 2 years before she had said she could not understand why anyone would want to do this. I also had a difficult time understanding, if my SO enjoyed being a guy the way he said did, then why on earth would he want to do such un-guy things as wear long fingernails, shave legs even when he wasn't dressing, pierce his ears, in short compromise his guy look in guy mode? Did this mean that he no longer wished to look like a guy in guy mode?


I recently bought 3 new tops all long sleeve, one with a regular neckline that is the same as a man's and two that have a v-neck and are quite plunging. I wore the first one on Wednesday night and just didn't feel feminine in it, I like it and will keep wearing it but I didn't feel like a woman(man in a dress feeling) and I didn't know why. I wore one of the v-neck tops the next night with the same crop pants and felt properly womanly. I didn't know why things felt this way until after I read your post. The next morning I got up to feed the horses and seeing as there is no one around I threw the v-neck top on it hit me about how much more feminine the lower neck line felt. I don't think I would have come to that realization without reading your post. So for me it's not about attracting men but feeling more girly. Thanks for the insight, I love when those little light bulbs come on.:thumbsup:

[docrobbysherry]

Megan, one thing I've learned about women in my 45+ years of dating and marrying them:

They USUALLY DON'T say anything by accident, or that they don't mean! As opposed to ME. Who MOSTLY says thotless things to them that I wish I could take back immediately!

And, the OTHER female trait u can count on, they NEVER FORGET anything u wish they would!

[Yvonne York]

I too have a very supportive wife, but she will not let me shave - her words too are that she wants a 'real man'. She is happy for me to dress at any time, with her or alone, but draws the line at seeing me in a wig or makeup, and loves hairly legs and chests. So I accept it looks silly, it feels silly, but I must remain a hairy girl!

[Carol Elizabeth]

I have heard that line also, "I want a real man." So I quit helping clean the house, washing and drying dishes, cooking, doing the laundry, and making the bed. She was upset. I asked her, "Didn't you say you wanted a real man?"

We are at peace, she decided that she loves me - and I love her. We share responsibilities and clothing doesn't really matter in the long run.

[mscatie85]

Just wanted to provide an update on where the situation currently stands. Last night before bed we were listing to the "Savage Love" Pod Cast by Dan Savage. After listening to some of the calls we came to the realization of how screwed up some relationships are (lying, cheating, etc) and what we have is something special (open, honest and understanding). I think it served as a catalyst for a conversation regarding my removal of chest hair.

The summarized version of this conversation is that she loves me and chest hair is a turn on for her, she wishes I would not do it but understands that I will have the urge to in the future. She asked that instead of shaving I wax or use a depilatory to minimize the harsh stubble that results (a turn off for her).

I realize now what I did wrong, it's not about asking for permission. It's your body and you have a certain right (within limits) to do what you want to it. However when you are in a committed relationship or engaged or married we must all realize that you relinquish some of those rights because there are now two people who have something at stake. Any thing should be discussed after all it is not only you that will need to deal with the consequences. I was too eager to allow Megan to run and be consumed by femininity that I was blinded by the fact that there is a special woman who expects a man in bed.

For all those that gave advice, thank you it really helped to open my eyes as to what the true problem was.

[Miriam-J]

This is a wonderful follow-up Megan. I don't think any of us could have handled the situation better. You've gained insight into your partner's interest in your body, and established some new boundaries. Perhaps you'll even consider occasionally letting your chest hair grow out again for her pleasure (perhaps in winter when you can wear clothing that covers more). Congratulations.

Miriam

[PretzelGirl]

Jumping in late I have to make a general comment on the amount of posts that go right to "choose whether or not to end the relationship". Holy cow! Talk about a lack of support! Megan had a comment from her wife and it didn't get discussed out thoroughly at the time. It is something that elicits emotion because we are protective of who we are and when communication is not completed, our minds can run wild with the possibilities, which is exactly what a lot of SOs go through when we leave them in the dark. So we shouldn't be jumping into the future with our advice and assume things will go bad. We should be encouraging communication, patience, and understanding. Marriage isn't a commodity to be thrown away easily.

Megan, one note as I am not sure I am reading your comment correctly. If she is saying it is okay to take the hair off as long as you don't have stubble, the only way might be daily shaving. I went down this road too. If you do it once for a makeover and try and grow it back out for her, then you will go through a stubble phase. If you want to wax, the hair has to have some length. If you use a depilatory, then it has to be often again like shaving. So is she wanting to see the hair come back sometimes since she likes it? If so, may I recommend you see if a compromise is that you shave it for the makeover and let it grow back out. You get the makeover, she has to accept a few days of short hairs, but she gets the chest hair back. I don't know if that would be acceptable to you, but it may be a consideration.

[Di]

Perfect MeganWI85!!!
Talking and getting on the same pg WONDERFUL!
WELL DONE YOU:D

[Shananigans]

You know, I had a little come-apart when my SO started shaving. My SO listened to me and was pretty understanding of how I felt. We talked about why he wanted to shave, and we talked about why I was uncomfortable with it. In the end, I realized I was just kind of uncomfortable with the implications that it could have for me if people noticed that he shaved. But, all-in-all, I actually really didn't like body hair. lol A couple weeks later, I admitted that I was overreacting and being selfish...and, I helped him get some hair removal products. If I had voiced how I felt, and he had a come-apart...I probably would have not brought the issue up anymore, and we may not actually be at the comfort level that we are with the whole shaving issue.

Everyone has moments of doubt about certain heated issues in a relationship...it's good when you can just talk about things and get it off your chest. Sometimes, talking about things and seeing it from another person's perspective changes our minds. Sometimes, it doesn't. But, you can at least respect where your wife is coming from, and she can respect where you are coming from. I think the fact you guys are talking about it is a good thing and shows a good level of acceptance.

I hope you all find some sort of compromise and continue the conversations :)

[Stephanie47]

Megan, I'm glad you came to your senses. I may take some heat from the militants, but, a successful marriage is an ongoing series of negotiations, changing boundaries and expectations.