Why do these images make me sad?

[Violetgray]

The following women were all born men:

http://www.hancinema.net/photos/photo12870.jpg

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/002196455/ana_xlarge.jpeg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02182/jenna_2182045b.jpg

http://images.seneweb.com/dynamic/modules/news/images/gen/sidneystarr122.jpg

When I look at these images, why do they make me sad a bit? They all look exactly like women. But when I see beautiful GG's I don't get sad. Just these women that I know are trans. Am I the only one?

[Beverley Sims]

All these images do is make me envious.
Are you confusing envious with sad.
Looking at women, I just take mental notes on how they present themselves.
Then I try to emulate them.
No! That doesn't work either.:)

[tiffanyjo89]

Number 1 is the most natural of them all.

Number 2 looks like she's mostly plastic...I wouldn't feel too bad about not looking like her. My guy side is kinda repulsed by that look.

Same for number 3...too skinny in the wrong parts.

Number 4 is an almost tie with number 1.

Google Kim Petras...
She's 19, has been on hormone treatments since she was 12 and had surgery at 16. Besides having been born as a boy and not having female reproductive organs (ie, ovaries...without them, no periods, but I'll hazard a guess and say she still gets moody), she actually is the closest thing I can think of as a complete woman besides genetically born women. Why? She had the necessary steps taken to avoid having male hormones and a male puberty happen.

[Cherry Lynn]

I can relate. I think we envy them for their transition.

[Kate T]

I don't quite understand Violet. Are you sad because you feel you can never be that "attractive". Or are you sad for them???

No they don't make me sad. I have no real feelings either way for most of them. I am quite happy with who I am, what I look like.

[Cynthia Anne]

Sad is a little strong here! Envy, yes! I'm happy for those that have fullfilled there dreams! Why oh why couldn't it been me! Hugs!

[Shari]

Sad, not really. Jealous? Oh yeah.
And Violet, you shouldn't be sad. You're one of the prettiest girls here.

[Stephenie S]

I don't know why they make you sad.

Do you?

I can tell you that pictures of women don't usually make me sad. And those pictures don't make me sad at all.

What I find interesting is that YOU identified all of those pictures as pictures of men. They don't look like men to me. And also, they don't look like they want to be identified as men. Why do you think it's important for you to "out" them on this forum?

Is this a little passive aggression?

S

[Karren H]

Personally they invoke no strong emotions in me one way or the other.

[Tina B.]

They don't make me sad, and they don't seem to be making themselves sad either.
Tina B.

[Vanessa Storrs]

I wonder how they would react to a photo of me.

[Sara Jessica]

What I find interesting is that YOU identified all of those pictures as pictures of men. They don't look like men to me. And also, they don't look like they want to be identified as men. Why do you think it's important for you to "out" them on this forum?

Is this a little passive aggression?

S

That is very unfair. I dare to say these individuals are likely already linked to being trans in some way, shape or form.

Violet, I totally get where you're coming from. The trans comes into play ONLY because we happen to know that about their history. The sadness comes from a could-have/would-have/should-have in thinking that perhaps if we were born at a different time and had the bravery to confront our gender issues head-on at an early age, then things really could be dramatically different for any of us.

So yes, there are moments when I feel that twinge of undeniable envy when confronted with a woman who has transitioned at an early age, especially when male puberty was suppressed. This is much different than the envy of aspiration that sometimes comes up when I see a natal female. But in either case, it doesn't do a whole lot of good to dwell on it. I try to see the positivity in who I am and do the best that I can in living on a middle path. But that doesn't mean I am immune to certain emotional reactions when I see beauty that I aspire to, no matter what form it comes in.

[HannahF6]

The only emotion the pictures produced in me was amusement, with picture #3. The interviewer is staring right into her cleavage, it is such a guy moment.

Hannah

[Kaitlyn Michele]

hmmm..

i used to look at pictures of cocinelle, and christine jorgenson and tula...and i would get sad...

not anymore though..

i am a bit jealous of how pretty and young they are..but that's just age...they'll get old too!

[darla_g]

I don't know if i would call it sad. It really doesn't make me sad a bit after learning they were originally men. They ultimately achievd something they wanted.

[Chickhe]

I don't see anyhting unusual about the images... what makes me sad is knowing that they have suffered from other people's opinions of them. ...even a few of the opiniions in this thread...these people didn't ask us to judge them, they just want to live a happy life and to be treated with respect.

[suchacutie]

I looked at these and immediately thought, "wow...look what is possible!" To me these women are inspirational and show what can be done when one strives to move in a certain direction in life! Outstanding!

tina

[Marleena]

Hi Violet. I think the sad part may be they were born the wrong sex.

That said they made changes early enough in life to be who they are. They are beautiful. I hope some day all transgenders are able to make that change before puberty. Wouldn't that be great?

[kimdl93]

As others have said, I'm not saddened - I see beautiful women - regardless of their DNA. I will admit to feeling more than a bit envious, but also wistful longing for young skin and muscle tone!

[Violetgray]

I don't know why they make you sad.

Do you?

I can tell you that pictures of women don't usually make me sad. And those pictures don't make me sad at all.

What I find interesting is that YOU identified all of those pictures as pictures of men. They don't look like men to me. And also, they don't look like they want to be identified as men. Why do you think it's important for you to "out" them on this forum?

Is this a little passive aggression?

S

You may want to reread the original post. What I said was, the following women were born men.

Also, I've outed no one. The women in order are:

Harisu
Ana Mancini
Jenna Talackova
Sidney Starr

All of these women are public figures who are open about their trans background. Why would I be aggressive about this, passively or otherwise?

Also, I should clarify: I'm not sad FOR them. I'm happy for them. But when I look at them... perhaps wistful is a better word.

I think Sara Jessica understands..

[Rachel Renee]

Violet, I definitely know how you feel. I'd be lying if I said that I didn't feel envious. When I read about someone beginning transition I always experience at least small pangs of jealousy, but also happiness that someone is living their lives on their terms.

[Foxglove]

When I look at these images, why do they make me sad a bit? . . . Am I the only one?

No, Violet, you're not the only one. It depends on my mood. Sometimes I enjoy being TG. When I'm dressed and feeling good, I love it. It has been asked on this forum before, if you could change and be "normal", would you change? My answer to that is no, I wouldn't change. In that sense I've accepted that I'm TG.

Still, sometimes I find it sad. We're born with such a disparity between body and mind. Our minds tell us we're one thing, and our bodies tell us we're another thing. We start out in life with a huge handicap that most people don't have to face. When I'm really feeling negative, I regard TGism as a sort of birth defect. I was born as defective goods. When you think like that, yes, it can get you a bit down.

Have you ever watched cats? For me, they're the most perfect animal physically. So agile, so at home within themselves. Imagine being able to flex your knees a bit and be able to leap up on a wall 15 feet high. I read something really amazing about cats recently: they can fall out of buildings, which sometimes they do, and survive a fall of several stories. In fact, the higher up they are, the greater their chances of survival because they have a natural sort of parachuting capability. If they fall only 2 or 3 stories, they're not likely to survive. Give them 6 or 8 or 10 stories, their chances increase.

I feel like I'm the opposite of a cat. So awkward, so ill at ease within myself. I'd love to be so smooth and slinky in my movements. I'd love to have that sort of feeling within myself. Instead, I lumber along more like a tank. I feel like the quintessential klutz.

It's why photos such as the ones you've linked to can make me sad. A reminder of everything I'm not. There's no doubt there's some envy there, but still it's a reminder to me of how far I am from what I'd like to be. I've been all wrong from birth. Enough to make a body sad.

But we should look at those girls for some inspiration, too. I'm starting to do a bit of work on myself. I'm not nearly as young and pretty as you--which is why I don't have any photos of myself. But we have to accept that we are what we are. Maybe we were screwed over at birth--but some things you just have to accept and get on with it.

Remember, too, that our sadness is not the only sort. Lots of people in this world know sadness in many different forms. We're all in the same boat, if only we knew it. We really should all join hands, and see if we can't help to make everyone happier. My ultimate dream.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Sarah Doepner]

It's not just you and it's not just us. I know people who have the same kind of emotion when they see the photos of a lottery winner or a star athlete or anyone who has achieved or experienced something the viewer has dreamed about. It may not even be desire to be in their place, but more, as Sara Jessica says, a "coulda woulda" committment that we either didn't or couldn't make. I dream of Tuscany or the Great Wall of China and decide to be happy when I visit Key Largo or the Grand Canyon. I wish for unlimited wealth and decide it's okay to already have what I need. And I look at those photos of the women who have made the journey that I never will and have to be satisfied that I understand something of what they feel and decide not to get too caught up in the whole beauty and body issue thing that all women face in our society.

You are lovely and have a good attitude and great sense of humor. I'm sure there are some who look at your photo or read your posts and sit there wistfully thinking they couldn't be more like Violet. Sometimes it feels good to be sad for a while, it can help focus our attention. Don't worry about it Violet, you have plenty of company.

[Stephenie S]

You may want to reread the original post. What I said was, the following women were born men.

Also, I've outed no one. The women in order are:

Harisu
Ana Mancini
Jenna Talackova
Sidney Starr

All of these women are public figures who are open about their trans background. Why would I be aggressive about this, passively or otherwise?

Also, I should clarify: I'm not sad FOR them. I'm happy for them. But when I look at them... perhaps wistful is a better word.

I think Sara Jessica understands..

Yeah, maybe wistful is a better word.

But you are "outing" them here. Why do you feel that need? It's obvious (at least to me), that they do not want to be identified with that gender. Just look at them.

[Foxglove]

But you are "outing" them here. Why do you feel that need? It's obvious (at least to me), that they do not want to be identified with that gender. Just look at them.

Stephenie, I'll go along with Sara Jessica and ask just what's the point of this post. Violet's not outing them since they're already out. Why does Violet feel the need to discuss these women on her thread? She gave that reason in her OP: she looks at them and feels some sadness and is wondering if anyone else does, too. She's stated her purpose quite clearly, and it's hard for me to see anything untoward in it. It seems to me to be a perfectly valid topic of discussion.

Annabelle

[Violetgray]

Just like I cannot drop something that is already on the ground, nor can I "out" someone who was open in first place.

If I were to say, "HEY EVERYBODY! ELTON JOHN IS GAY!" Would I be outing him too?

[kimdl93]

Just like I cannot drop something that is already on the ground, nor can I "out" someone who was open in first place.

If I were to say, "HEY EVERYBODY! ELTON JOHN IS GAY!" Would I be outing him too?

OMG!!! Elton John is gay?

[Lorileah]

52% of the population is female. How many of those get their pictures published in any large publication? This is a small representation of Post-ops. They are the fringe so to speak. There is no reason to be sad, or jealous, or angry. They are who they are. The emotion should be no different than when you look at any other model. You may 'want" but unless you have unlimited time, money and desire, you won't ever "be".


I look on them with admiration both for the strength to change and for being open about it.

[Shananigans]

Hey...what's that guy looking at in picture #3? hehehehe

I look at those pictures and see women. A couple of those women had A LOT of plastic surgery...but, I still see women. I wouldn't have known they were trans unless you had said something. Or, they told me.

You are probably jealous because you identify as trans and you probably have some ideal in your head built up that they are living up to that you think you aren't. (Did that sentence make sense?) GGs have been doing this since...forever.

I think I was either dealt a really lucky card by being bi...or, it makes things really confusing. It's kind of weird to be sexually attracted to someone, but also a little envious of them at the same time. But, it always seems that sexual attraction wins. (If the hot person found me attractive, didn't I win?)

I think people have been comparing themselves to each other sense forever. With men, it's usually the whole, "I can pee further than you...I can drink more beers than you...I can get more women than you." (Yes, that's my assessment of men). With women, it's more, "I wish I had her boobs. I wish I had her hair. I wish I had her clothes." You are identifying as trans...are you transitioning? If so, I could see wanting to have the same "successful transition." I'd say these women had pretty good success because I wouldn't have known they were born men. So, in other words, they have reached their goal.

It feels a whole lot better when you learn not to compare yourself to other people. But, I can't say that I always do this successfully.

[Nicole Erin]

When you see photos of these perfect looking trans-women, keep in mind it is the exception and not the rule.

Reason it makes you sad but GG's would not is - we can really only compare ourselves to other TG women. GG's were born with XX and we were not.

I think we all want to look perfect in whatever gender we present.

Violet, for yourself, I honestly think you look better than any of those four and here is why - you look more natural, those TS you posted look like clowns from the neck up. I would not mind having a body like them but the face - not so much. There are a lot of envied TS out there who just look weird. Yes it looks like women but not natural ones.

[kellycan27]

I also see these beautiful women as nothing short or inspirational! Not just because they are beautiful, but also because they followed their dream and by the looks of them I'd say that they have "arrived"! Sad? no, a little envious.. yes. What I do find as sad is people who feel the need to criticize or critic them in any way... I think that would fall more under the category of "sour grapes".

[Lorileah]

I also see these beautiful women as nothing short or inspirational! Not just because they are beautiful, but also because they followed their dream and by the looks of them I'd say that they have "arrived"!

Stated by one of the members who is inspirational and has arrived :)

[Kerigirl2009]

I am with most of the others here. Envious of the girls who made their dreams a reality.

[Anna Abwaerts]

@Violetgray - you did not mention what kind of "sad" it is. Maybe it is jealousy?

This is how they make Me sad - they transitioned, yes, they look cute. But they all are asian, they may be referred as ladyboys. Not only they transitioned, they jumped on the bandwagon to make themselves look like innocent teenage barbiedolls- all for what? - To please other men. They got caught in media stigma of what is beauty.

I realise if youre from Taiwan or <somewhere there> becoming a woman is quite an acceptable reality, because of the sex industry. But it makes me sad that they give up on one personality to substitute it with another, thus losing themselves.

[kimdl93]

OK, when I said "jealous" or envious, its really meant in an entirely humourous vein. I frankly admire these women. I think they've done a great thing and I'm glad that, however they've acheived such levels of beauty, that they exemplify that beauty is not gender-specific. And yes, deep inside I wish I could be them, but there's no anger or hostility in that simple fantasy. We all compare ourselves to "ideals" and find ourselves wanting.

I wish I could look like Candice Bergen at 30. I wish I could look like Robert Redford at 30 or Brad Pitt at 30. Hell, Robert Redford probably wishes he could look like Brad Pitt at 30, and Brad Pitt probably wishes he could look like Candice Bergen did at 30....

[kellycan27]

@Violetgray - you did not mention what kind of "sad" it is. Maybe it is jealousy?

This is how they make Me sad - they transitioned, yes, they look cute. But they all are asian, they may be referred as ladyboys. Not only they transitioned, they jumped on the bandwagon to make themselves look like innocent teenage barbiedolls- all for what? - To please other men. They got caught in media stigma of what is beauty.



I realise if youre from Taiwan or <somewhere there> becoming a woman is quite an acceptable reality, because of the sex industry. But it makes me sad that they give up on one personality to substitute it with another, thus losing themselves.

I am sorry, but this makes no sense, and to be quite honest your post reeks of prejudice and homophobia. I think you have a couple of things backwards. If they are changing their personality, it's not losing themselves, it's finding their true selves. No matter what their sexual preference. Acceptable because of the sex trade? I suggest you read up on the Thai culture, cause you don't have a clue. The one thing that did get somewhat correct was in regards to "the stigma of what beauty is". Even so..right wrong or indifferent.. it is what it is.. Some will win, some will lose, some were born to sing the blues.. or in other words....life's a bitch and then you die.

[whowhatwhen]

I thought every CD envied the features of GGs, hell, if someone says "hey, there's one for ya" I'm thinking "I really love her eyebrows, I wish I could have mine like that".
Maybe being TG means you can relate to them a bit better?

[Shananigans]

I thought every CD envied the features of GGs, hell, if someone says "hey, there's one for ya" I'm thinking "I really love her eyebrows, I wish I could have mine like that".
Maybe being TG means you can relate to them a bit better?

I feel you. I hate anyone with good eyebrows...I can be a "sour grape" about it. :-D

One of my friends is a gay GM...perfect eyebrows. I was letting him shape them one day, and he said, "We may need to take them all off and start over." He was just playing...but, for real though.

Idk maybe I'm weird...but, I'm not envious in particular to any group of people. Maybe slightly more GGs...because, I relate mostly to them/us. (?) I'm just envious of people that make me envious. There's no rhyme nor reason to it sometimes. I spent all of today envious of my male cohort because he eats ding dongs all day. (That's why she said). And, I could probably throw him across the room. Like, how can someone be blessed with that metabolism? I might as well throw every cupcake that I eat into my pants because that's where it goes. People that can actually eat sweets mak me sad. Maybe I'll be super rich and can afford plastic surgery one day. It seems like everyone likes the surgical look. I kinda like how I look naturally, but people think that "hot people" are like crazy surgically altered. I mean, I think surgery would be a last resort...maybe if I got Really fat and ugly. But, idk Violet, I think these girls are hot...but, I think you look better generally because you don't look fresh off the operating table. Just my opinion.

[STACY B]

Yea I do get alot of that when folks see me in my SWIM SUIT ,,, Yall know thats me right ,,,,,RIGHT ???

[Sheren Kelly]

Violet,
I can look at several pictures from members who post on this forum and feel a personal longing for what might have been. Having surpressed my femme side for so long, I often wonder how much more comfortable I would feel I had started to express myself earlier in a supportive environment. But at the same time I feel a joy in seeing others realize their potential and project such an elegant and natural image.

[Josie M]

It's tough to guess how you're feeling because all of our experiences are different.

These are women who's transitions look to have been pretty successful. Coming to accept ourselves as we are is such struggle, perhaps these pictures can make you wonder what may have been if you could have come to terms with it all much earlier in life. Maybe you'd never have transitioned regardless....but it's hard not to "second guess" at times.

I know I wish I'd have understood that I was TG early on, I don't think I'd transition because I like my male half as well, but just understanding and accepting myself for who I am would have added some much needed context to my life early on.....

Shoot, I wish I was as open as you are back when I was your age...

[kellycan27]

Stated by one of the members who is inspirational and has arrived :)


That was a very sweet thing to say.. thank you.:hugs:

Kel

[makin' it real]

So I'm approaching this from a slightly different angle. The OP described feeling sad in response to the images and seemed to want to explore her feelings and why this might be so. I have to say that while at the surface level, I too experience jealousy or envy when I see a good looking TG person, wherever they are on the TG spectrum, I also often experience a sense of sadness, even akin to grief, when I allow myself to settle in to any one of many commercial pictures.

This is a curious thing, and I ask your willing suspension of immediate judgment as I follow Violet's lead to a deeper place inside. I feel pain when I see another in pain. The more vulnerable I allow myself to be, the more I experience inside me what I see outside me.

There is much pain to experience in these pictures, along with appreciation for the people's courage and respect for who they are and how they got to be where they are. Being TS is rarely easy. It is almost always accompanied by heart-wrenching difficulties. When I look at pictures of people who have experienced a great deal of pain in their lives, I often experience a sense of that pain as well. So that is one way I feel sad looking at these pictures.

Then there's the sadness I experience in the presence of people who have given up important parts of themselves. I have done this, hiding my CDing and gender issues even from myself for many many years, hating myself for having these thoughts and doing these things, and cutting myself off from important and valuable parts of who I genuinely am. When I see that in others, that charade-like protective covering donned to appear in a form intended to garner love for its wearer, I feel sad.

The physical forms chosen by at least a couple of the women in those original pictures seem to be hyper-sexual rather than fully authentic expressions of inner truth. I grieve at the loss of connection with self that represents. After the wild exuberance that sometimes accompanies wanton sexuality, comes the recognition that we are more than sexual beings, and that wild or frequent sex alone makes a poor substitute for the genuine love and connection that is our true hunger and need. So when I hang my identity on my sexuality, I effectively divorce myself from my true needs and say I'll be satisfied with this plastic replacement of real nourishment. And that is sad.

I see some of these elements in the pictures Violet posted. I don't know anything about the women in those pictures, nor do I mean to say anything about them. I am sharing my emotional responses to some pictures. And yes, when I allow myself to look beyond the surface, some of the pictures lead me to feel sad too.

~Rachel

[suzanne]

Im not so much sad as envious. I envy them the freedom to express who they truly are, if not their aesthetic choices. I was raised in a time and place where men are MEN, dammit, and femininity is an offense punishable by physical, verbal and/or emotional abuse. I learned the best survival tactic was to be a man and deny the very existence of my inner little girl. The generation of the girls in your pictures have suffered much less, not to say zero, of that pressure and likely have fewer scars to show for it.

[Sophie_C]

I've seen trans women even more passable than them, or anyone posted yet. What can I say? If I was born so I was 12 now, I'd transition then and my life would be completely different. That's just how the cards fell. No point in dragging myself down thinking of what could have been, right before the internet broke out.

[muzzy]

SAD,no...JEALOUS,yes....I would love to look that feminine mmmmm I want to xoxo

[Rachaelb64]

Only the first one made me a bit sad maybe because she was so natural looking. Life has delt me my cards so I'm playing with this hand :)

[TxKimberly]

I absolutely "get it" Violet.
I cant speak for anyone else, but I've encountered the feeling often enough to have devoted some effort to figuring out why they make me feel that way. For me, they represent something that I desperately wish I could have done and experienced but know for absolute certain that I now can't.
And the feeling is no where near as simple or crass as mere envy. Envy is fairly simple to understand - this is something more. This is a longing and a profound sadness for a life that I will never have.
These people were dealt the same hand that I was, and are now living a reasonably normal female life while I continue to plod along as an aging man.
It's not that I'm jealous of these people - that would be kind of a crude and maybe less than flattering emotion on my part. I dont resent them for what they have or who they are.
It's more a deep sadness for a life that know I might have had, but also know that I will never have now.

[Noemi]

What will make me sad is pictures of CD'ers that look totally male and done wrong. That will bum me out.
The ladies you picked live full time as women. If you went full time you would girl it up to the next level too, as would I. Plus when we think about transitioning later in life, in our 40's as many start to get hip to the fact that they are trans at this age, it is a bit different than these ladies. Who all look great-well there is the blonde with a bit too much plastic, but what a figure...
Early transitions are a wonder, to know at that young age. When I was young I was always depressed and ran and ran from my feminine feelings. So I give these ladies credit for their courage and resourcefulness.

[victoriamwilliams1]

Sidney Star looks great and Violet you look great as well so why be so sad sis:)

[Lyndaloves]

As others have said, I'm not saddened - I see beautiful women - regardless of their DNA. I will admit to feeling more than a bit envious, but also wistful longing for young skin and muscle tone!

I feel this way also......youth