What hurts us?

[Briana90802]

So I'm leaving work yesterday and I saw a CDer and it was fairly obvious due to the 6 or 7 "O" clock shadow, the unshaven legs and the over lack of anything feminine except for the dress and shoes. It made me think that when other people look at this person they are disgusted and that it hurts us when we go out.

Just so I don't become a community embarrassment what are some things I should avoid while out in public? Are there any tips I need so I don't end up being the center of attention?

EDIT:
As a crossdresser when I go out there will always be things that give me away. My QUESTION IS what are some of the "Tell-tale" signs that I should avoid so that I don't stand out like a Jack Sparrow on Hollywood Blvd?

I'm looking for helpful and supportive commentary here not sarcasm.(isn't that why we are all here?) Thank you.

[MandyGG]

What is the difference between you two besides more personal attention to detail? Does it make him "gross" in your eyes even though technically you are the same? I am confused by this logic. You are both CD. Why compare? Maybe he doesn't have a support system that will allow him to present more femme, yet he still had the desire to go out.

[Katesback]

I can say this. The guy actually has the balls to go out into the world which is pretty rare for CDs now isnt it?

[Secret_Dresser]

I can say this. The guy actually has the balls to go out into the world which is pretty rare for CDs now isnt it?

I would have to disagree, while I cant say that I myself have went out en femme, alot of CD's do tend to make the trip out into the "big bad world". While yes it is indeed rare to see an actualy CD on the streets there will more than likely be a decent portion of us out there.

[Jonianne]

Also, unless you know the situation, consider there may be a reason. Now that I am doing electrolysis, I have to let my face go unshaven for several days. I am not full time, so I can deal with that. But, I know some who are full time and they have to go out with unshaven faces anyway. They don't like it, but they have to do it anyway.

[KimberlyJean]

I would have to disagree, while I cant say that I myself have went out en femme, alot of CD's do tend to make the trip out into the "big bad world". While yes it is indeed rare to see an actualy CD on the streets there will more than likely be a decent portion of us out there.

+1
I like to think I could be standing right next to you and you wouldn't know I am not a woman.

[Badtranny]

I would have to disagree, while I cant say that I myself have went out en femme, alot of CD's do tend to make the trip out into the "big bad world". While yes it is indeed rare to see an actualy CD on the streets there will more than likely be a decent portion of us out there.

Not true. Read through the posts on this very site and you will see that the vast majority here are deep in the closet. Some will go for a drive, some will go to a park in the middle of the night, some will go to TG only events, but VERY few will step out into the world. Even fewer would speak up for LGBT issues for fear that their dirty little secret would be exposed. I'll even bet you a dollar that there are closet cases on this very forum that have participated in gay or trans bullying because they were too afraid to openly dissent.

This "embarrassment" that you speak of actually looks remarkably like many CD's as far as I'm concerned. It's awful hard to make a man look like a woman so maybe this cat thought he was as good as he was gonna get? If you don't think that's the right image for your "community" then pull up your panties and go show 'em how it's supposed to be done.


+1
I like to think I could be standing right next to you and you wouldn't know I am not a woman.

Yeah well, that's what we ALL like to "think".

[MandyGG]

If you don't think that's the right image for your "community" then pull up your panties and go show 'em how it's supposed to be done.

I think I just fell in love with you.

Honestly, most CD's look like a "Dude in a Dress". Very few are 100% passable, and the ones that are the most passable are on their way to becoming full time females, a la TS. I have to give him credit for going out. No matter his appearance.

[KimberlyJean]

Yeah well, that's what we ALL like to "think".

I don't "think" it is as hard to pass as you make it out to be, most of us would never pass a close inspection but just browsing in a store or walking down the sidewalk most people aren't paying that close of attention. I have been in situation where I know I passed and others where I think they were just being polite.

[Katesback]

Secret you make me smile. Why do you make me smile? Well because you disagree with me and then you go on to say you have been out dressed. Ok......... CDs have a reputation of being picture addicts. I would think if you in fact went out in the real world you would have a picture of you in the real world. Ahhh but crap you dont even have a picture of your legs on here. Under your profile you got a pic of a corset. I mean girl who are you trying to kid?

Katie






I would have to disagree, while I cant say that I myself have went out en femme, alot of CD's do tend to make the trip out into the "big bad world". While yes it is indeed rare to see an actualy CD on the streets there will more than likely be a decent portion of us out there.

[Marleena]

I'm seeing the replies I expected to see. I think I'll just opt out of this one.:)

[Rachael Turner]

I myself am what i consider to be a "7 iron" I look good from about 150 yards away ;)

[STACY B]

GEEZ ,,,,,,, I could have sworn no body would clock me ,, Crap ,, Thought I was off the chain ,, Back to the drawing board I guess ,,,, To be cont ....

[Badtranny]

I myself am what i consider to be a "7 iron" I look good from about 150 yards away ;)

...and that my dear is the attitude that will get you ever closer to actually passing someday. First you accept the impossible, than you make it inevitable.

[Briana90802]

Ummm. Isn't there a difference between a "dude in a dress" and a crossdresser? Kinda like that old debate between a CD and DG. I don't know if I admire his bravery or his apathetic attitude. I'm just saying that it seems harder for people(the public) to take us serious about CDing when this guy, and other "characters", soil the term Crossdresser. For example: it would seem that many people think that Mormons are all polygamist. Of course this isn't true. It's only a few extremist that seem to be in the public eye who assist in forming false public opinion about a group of people.

In my line of work I've come across quite a few CDers and whether they were passable or not I was given the impression that they cared about themselves and the community that they represented.


BTW the discussion being persued here isn't the answer to the question that I originally asked. I was using this guy as an example.

[whowhatwhen]

I think turtles are pretty cute, but sometimes they don't get along and they all fight and um...
I admire his balls (lol) to give no ****s and do what feels good/right, anyone who doesn't care likely supports LGBT to begin with and the others weren't going to be swayed anyway.

Moral of the story: Stop fighting like turtles?

[Miranda-E]

So I'm leaving work yesterday and I saw a CDer and it was fairly obvious due to the 6 or 7 "O" clock shadow, the unshaven legs and the over lack of anything feminine except for the dress and shoes. It made me think that when other people look at this person they are disgusted and that it hurts us when we go out.



were you dressed when leaving work and showing how a person can live their life out and about or were you in mens clothes and hiding?

[KellyJameson]

That actually could be a good thing. I have a friend with a full beard who often wears skirts and dresses out and about all the time. He is 6'4, 350lbs with a huge barrel chest and has more hair on his knuckles than I do on my whole body. I love his energy and booming voice and his courage is inspirational. I have to look absolutely perfect before I allow others to see me enfemme and it is purely from fear. When I go out in public with him they are to busy staring at him to notice me and many people actually stop and tell him how brave they think he is, of course this is a town where people ride their bicycles naked so they are probably thinking the dress is an improvement.

There is a company in Seattle called "Men in Kilts" that does exterior cleaning work like pressure washing and like the name states everyone wears a kilt. Pushing the boundaries makes the box larger for people like me (who are so cautious) to live in. I often feel guilty about this because it is like others fighting a war for my freedom but I'm glad they are out there and I try to add to the fight in my own small ways when I'm able.

There was a time when women felt the pressure to always look perfect before they left the house and I think it turns something that is fun into drudgery, the artistic elements should not be lost in the need to look perfect (beautiful), keep it creative (I say this but still trying to practice what I preach). I hit a bucket of golfballs today in an exclusive area of town and I stand out for a mile with my hairless arms & legs wearing shorts, hair to the middle of my back and painted fingernails but otherwise presenting as a male and the only thing anyone said to me was to compliment me on striking the ball well. They look at me sideways but I have a very soft persona so they do not see me as dangerous and it gives them something to talk about when they get home. It is going out looking 100% female that things seem to get complicated because it adds a sexual element with all the risks. From what I have experienced not passing actually could be safer.

[Barbara Ella]

Was gonna stay out, but cant cause I like turtles, just dont want to dress like them.

WIthout knowing the exact situation it is only generalities that we can comment on , and one should not comment on generalities, in general.

Remember some cross dressers prefer to maintain a male appearance even while wearing women's clothes, and there is not one thing wrong with this. I want to look femme, and when i go out (eventually) I want to be the best I can. pass? not likely, but I want to enjoy myself and the experience. How can I put this nicely, but I hope other CD will not see me to pass judgement, cause you are some of the hardest critics going, and I love each and every one of you.

So lets not judge this one poor fellow too harshly, and realize we are comprised of a great variety of members with widely varying situations and capabilities all trying to enjoy the same thing and that is simply wearing female clothes.

Barbara

[Briana90802]

were you dressed when leaving work and showing how a person can live their life out and about or were you in mens clothes and hiding?

I was leaving work in a gender nuetral uniform and this was a town center shopping facility. Besides my real questions was about how to not be the center of attention while out dressed.

[MandyGG]

It was a bad example, Brianna. I have no clue what DG, so if anyone cares to shed light on that for me, it would be most helpful.

To answer your question....The only way to shed the stigmata that is CD, you have to do what all of the previous generations did. You HAVE to get out there. Interact. Fight for what you believe in. Making yourself look more femme and expecting all others to as well doesn't do anything more for you. The bear in the dress is doing more for you than that. If you simply want to blend, then 6 inch stilettos and mini dresses are not it. GG's wear jeans. Flip flops. Etc. yes, they go out in their mini dresses at night, but if you are talking Walmart, you are lucky to see one with lip gloss. It's probably Chapstick anyway! Anyway, there is blending in and being incognito, but that is going to do absolutely nothing for your group.

[kellycan27]

In my line of work I've come across quite a few CDers and whether they were passable or not I was given the impression that they cared about themselves and the community that they represented.

You should just worry about you and how you present,represent this so called community. Since tg people don't tend to run in herds ( save for the occasional TG venues) people who see you are going to form an opinion on the individual not the group. And to be perfectly honest I would think that this would be more important to you. Beside that.. him getting read like a drug store novel, might take some of the heat off of you. :heehee:

Kel

[AllieSF]

I am on the side of dress as you please, regardless of what others think. Those that have that special courage to do just that are leading the way for those that do not have the courage to go out. Please do not criticize the flag bearers just because they do not meet your standards. Brianna, to avoid standing out, you could stay at home, which I do not think is what you want to do. So, dress for the venue in something that makes you feel good. It may be overly conservative, or overly risqué. You do not need to please anyone besides yourself. I totally agree with those that have said that the attention getter's makes it a lot easier for us who try to blend in. I don't think you meant to talk down about the person you observed, however, your comments are typical of many here, when they, like you, seem to think that the other should dress according to what they and you think is a better way. So, some of the responses you are getting here, mine included, are just trying to point out that we should support all of our members here, and not judge them, just was we do not want to be judged by others. If you have the right attitude and self confidence, you will do your best according to your tastes and abilities and not worry about others. Let your great personality and character carry you to where you want to go and be. I do the best I can trying to do that and am loving every minute of it.

[Sophie_C]

I know I'm going to sound un-pc, but there's typically too much patting people on the back here. We've got to make an effort to improve the general perception of us, and it's everyone's responsibility to actually make some effort. Basic grooming should be the BARE MINIMUM. I'm not saying everyone should glam it up (just be yourself) but have some level of decency.

Yes, people like the one you crossed paths with bring us down, since they fulfill everyone's expectations of us being the "bearded lady" from the circus. 1000%.

[Cynthia Anne]

[QUOTE=Katesback;2809478]Secret you make me smile. Why do you make me smile? Well because you disagree with me and then you go on to say you have been out dressed. Ok......... CDs have a reputation of being picture addicts. I would think if you in fact went out in the real world you would have a picture of you in the real world. Ahhh but crap you dont even have a picture of your legs on here. Under your profile you got a pic of a corset. I mean girl who are you trying to kid? KATIE QUOTE!
I'm proud of who Iam! I have no pictures on here either! Due to the fact that I can't afford a camera, nor can I afford to update my cell phone! I went out fully dress today and went grocery shopping and bought me a dress! If you come to my hometown you will see me! Being poor doesn't make me a liar! Hugs!

[MandyGG]

Why shouldn't these "ladies" have a place where they can go to get that pat on the back? What is so wrong with a group wanting acceptance when they feel that no one accepts them? Everyone here deals with dread, shame, guilt, and a low self esteem at some point. Why smear mud in their face?

[sandra-leigh]

I know from experience that wig, earrings, makeup, different glasses, heels, nylons, purse, distance, poor light, thin brows, sitting still, not talking -- none of those are enough to keep me from being read in less than 2 seconds by people who didn't even know I dressed. I'm only a little taller than average, and I am the same sizes as the average woman my age in my community, so I do not have a "looming" appearance. My gender therapist says the only thing she notices is my 5-o'clock shadow, but for me fast recognition happens even when I am closely shaved and wearing foundation that covers the rest.

The only thing I've been able to guess is that it's my nose, which is bigger than average and has "bell" nostrils instead of being smooth: maybe it is distinctive. I don't know.

As far as I can tell at the moment, the only thing that might stop me from getting routinely read by most people is FFS. maybe.

There is, however, a major difference between being read vs one's appearance being a problem to people. In the last few years, my appearance has been a Problem to a lone 16 year old boy who ranted that he wanted to kill me; he clearly had problems enough that my having been more careful with makeup wouldn't have made a difference. My appearance was also a problem with a pack of 14 year old boys hanging around looking for problems in an "prove your toughness to others" kind of way; a better haircut or a more recent manicure wouldn't have helped with them. (I ignored them and walked right through the lot of them, refusing to act the victim.) And the majority of people? They care so little that they don't bother to look twice at me.

One can get read very often, and yet if one has inner self-confidence that one's appearance is fine, then most people will perceive "There is nothing wrong here."

I have been that "dude with a dress and a beard shadow". The reaction? Pleasant chats with people.

I am publicly transgendered. I am visibly androgynous all of the time. Which is what is right for me. It isn't a problem with anyone who isn't looking for problems.


Those that have that special courage to do just that are leading the way for those that do not have the courage to go out. Please do not criticize the flag bearers just because they do not meet your standards.

In my experience, one of the best ways to change people's perceptions of "us", is to be "a guy in a dress" on a bus carrying milk and toilet paper. Visibly healthy food, obvious domesticity, mixing with others as equals, not afraid to be with "regular people", not demanding or diva or doing anything "suggestive": just a person like any other, a person who obviously isn't a threat to anyone, let alone "society".

I am one of the most generally visible CD/TG/TS in my city. Oh, there are some who are much much better known in the "alternative" communities, but I'm the one going about my business in the grocery store, in the malls, on the bus, at the doctor, quietly eating my meal in a restaurant, and so on -- the one doing it all the time, right in plain sight, not "hiding".


We've got to make an effort to improve the general perception of us, and it's everyone's responsibility to actually make some effort. Basic grooming should be the BARE MINIMUM.

It's a long weekend and I haven't bothered to shave for several days. Does that make me a "bearded lady from the circus"? Nope, that makes me "pretty normal".

I was in Costco today in mixed mode. I got some smiles, and I got some nasty looks. The best smile was for pausing to let someone else proceed when others didn't. The nasty looks weren't for my appearance: the nasty looks were for repeatedly getting way out of the path of a one particular group of women who weren't paying attention to where they were going. Some people find it easier to give someone a nasty look than to take responsibility for their own actions.

[JessHaust]

When I decided that I would fullfill my lifelong desire to dress, I took almost a full year studing, dieting, practicing the art of crossdressing. As such I take pride in how I look when I go out. It's not a motter of passing, but one of believing in yourself enough to take a little time to do it to your best. The CD described is making a bad impression on our behalf. You would not expect to go to a black tie affair and see someone in a running suite would you? It's the same thing


?..but VERY few will step out into the world. Even fewer would speak up for LGBT issues for fear that their dirty little secret would be exposed.

I have to disagree with this, while there are plenty of closeted CD/TG individuals out there, but there are still plenty of us out there. Have a look here, http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?172327-My-new-life
The pictures show only a few of the group which has over 250 active members.
The pictures of us at the table with the papers was taken at a monthly GEAR meeting, a TG public awareness group. We put ourselves out there in public week after week, and need to present a favorable impression with the general public.

OK, soapbox now going back in it's closet now! It can live in the closet, I can't!

[Sophie_C]

Why shouldn't these "ladies" have a place where they can go to get that pat on the back? What is so wrong with a group wanting acceptance when they feel that no one accepts them? Everyone here deals with dread, shame, guilt, and a low self esteem at some point. Why smear mud in their face?

Ah, I do see your point, but I think this is apples and oranges we're talking about here. Yes, people should have plenty of positivity, all around - I love that, especially when they're making the effort to figure things out and making their first baby steps forward.

But, this is different. We're taking when someone's making no effort, not caring at all, and having no bottom level of decency.

I think it's fair to be a little tough about that, no?

[Jacqueline Winona]

I get the point about the image, but we don't know why this person was dressed like this, and i just hate to judge without knowing more. Who knows, there may habve been a good reason. And I do tend to beleive that whatever form of dressing anyone does in public desensitizes a lot of people to the whole idea, making those CD's who do try to blend that much better off.

[ReineD]

It made me think that when other people look at this person they are disgusted and that it hurts us when we go out.

I think you're projecting your own fear of being read onto everyone else. There may be some people who find his presentation objectionable, but others will see him simply as a man who likes to put on women's clothing. The same can be said of a CDer who presents exquisitely. Some people will still think it is disgusting that a man should present as a woman, while most others won't give it more than a passing thought.



Just so I don't become a community embarrassment what are some things I should avoid while out in public? Are there any tips I need so I don't end up being the center of attention?

If you want to blend in and minimize your chances of being read by everyone you run into,

The obvious things first: no beard shadow/hairy legs, no huge fetishy-looking breasts and overly large hip pads, no dressing in fishnets/mini-skirt/stilettos in places where most other GGs wear blue-jeans, no platinum blonde wigs or gleaming ultra long red fingernails, don't wear too much jewelry or eye makeup/blush. Study the women who frequent the venues you plan on attending and present like they do even if it seems boring.

The less obvious things: no skulking around (afraid to make eye contact), no hiding behind clothes racks while shopping, in other words, just be as close to your guy self as possible in terms of confidence and feeling you belong there. Also do not exaggerate feminine walk, movement, or mannerisms. And don't speak in a falsetto voice.

That said, please know that if you dress to blend and are still read, it is not the end of the world. People might guess that you are a genetic male but we do have enough open-minded individuals in our society who will accept you for who you are and who will treat you with respect. I speak with experience. My SO and I have been going out in the mainstream for years and we've gotten friendly with the shop owners/personel/some of the patrons at the places we frequent. Although when we walk on the street it is not immediately apparent to most people that my SO is a genetic male, people do know when they start talking to us and it's OK, it really is. My SO's personality shines through and people tend to see who she really is inside. :)

Edit - Other than gangs of drunken young men late at night (:p), it is not strangers whom you'll never see again who will give you grief. It is the people who are closer than arm's length: the bosses who might be afraid of losing business, the coworkers/neighbors who have a moral objection and who won't want daily exposure, the parents of your young daughter's friends who understand little about the CDing, the wife who is afraid of being ostracized by the community or some of her friends, your children who may be afraid of being made fun of at school.

Although the first part of my post may seem as if it contradicts the second, it doesn't. People are a lot more forgiving of CDers when they are not in their own back yards.

[sandra-leigh]

But, this is different. We're taking when someone's making no effort, not caring at all, and having no bottom level of decency.

What, were their genitals showing? Were they deliberately refusing to get out of the way of people? Were they insulting passers-by? Did they deliberately eat beans and cabbage and then went out into public to fart in closed spaces and laugh about it? Was the dress So Last Year That No Decent Person Would Be Caught Dead In It? Were they listening to Barbara Streisand in public?

Do tell. Don't assume that what comes to mind for me for "decency" is the same that comes to mind for you. Be specific about how they were being indecent.


I think it's fair to be a little tough about that, no?

My wife asked me to go shopping with her today, "Please". My wife and I only get about 5 hours of "together" time a week. She asks me "Please" to go shopping with her, I go shopping with her, I don't spend an hour of our together time cleaning up in order to meet your standards of what is "decent" or not.

Oh, by the way, the reason that I still have the facial hairs is that my wife has several times asked me not to get them removed. They are important to her. But from what you are saying, I guess that for the good of the Cause, I should have ignored her feelings and gotten rid of them so that strangers won't be offended ? There seems to be a shortage of strangers volunteering to take care of our handicapped tenant to give my wife and I time to maintain our relationship, so I take what time with her I can get, beard or no beard.

[Marleena]

I don't expect to pass close up no matter hard I try. From far away, maybe, but I don't care.

What we have to remember is that we are a diverse group. Some members simply prefer being male and being able to wear any clothes they feel like in male mode. That's why avoided this thread earlier. We are here for different reasons and dressing on different levels with different goals in mind.

Oh I should also add we have an older guy that walks around town in mostly women's clothes and carries a doll. He could be mistaken as a normal CDer except we know he is actually schizophrenic.

[Contessa]

I'm sorry Brianna I'll try to do better next time. I am not sure you saw me, where was I when you were there. I normally shave right before I dress. Not my leg though Not much hair there anyway. I'm pretty sure I don't look too bad. I like skirts more anyway but I did find a nice lbd today for $3 at a thrift shop. Cause I think a GG has already worn it. New stuff hasn't.

I do a very satisfactory job at makeup. I taught myself. I go out when I want. I am really not trying to be sarcastic. If want to look your best ask some one either before you go out or while you're out. You should have stopped me and asked me. I would have told how I felt I was really in a good mood that day.

Tess

[Gaby2]

Very interesting thread, Brianna.
Isn't it all a question of time?

If one learns to accept oneself as a CDer (at whatever level and regardless of motivation), one can concentrate on "positive aspects".
"Positive aspects" might include presenting as the person you referred to in the OP...

I'm amazed how unimportant my "once-all-dominating fears of what others might think" have become.
I don't even need to prove myself to myself anymore, nevermind others.:eek:
:rose2:Gaby

[noeleena]

Hi,

Is there a place for people like myself then , what would you say . were it posible that i could meet you all from our forum you may be shocked or think what the hell have we here, better still to see myself with a group of women .....only..... a member in fact not just one world wide group.

No dought youd think am i a male & no way am i a woman. you see well dont not yet any way ,

We dont all happen to have what is percived as female facial features , some of us are in fact female = women , we just did not have it all in order at birth.

So would it be said im a dresser . or a trans person. well i think most of you all ready know what i am , yet had you not known from being on this forum you would not know what i am if in fact im a female / woman or some one who is trying to dress as a woman.

Dont judge the book,,,,, till,,,,,, you have read it from front to back or in my case get to know the real who i am.
This person that appears to be some one who dress's a little different could have issues & could be a woman till the answer is answered by the person we wont know,

In my case do you belive & accept what i have said about my self as being true or as has been said you cant belive any thing or person on the net as being true,

As has been said does one need to prove who they are, im well documented by our govt dept's & many others ,


...noeleena...

[Kaz]

Hi Brianna,

As always, Reine has come the closest to answering your question and has also given the best advice! I go out rarely, but I do. As I get older it gets to be less often as I am losing confidence in my ability to pull it off facially. The trick is to blend... ie not to draw attention. Now this is a wierd one as getting no reaction means that it may be going good... but you still don't know what people are thinking!

I have less experience than many American girls on this site, and I am very cautious indeed... but I do go out. I try to wear similar clothes to what other women are wearing. I shave my entire body (except the head when in man mode) - it helps me feel different and the legs, arms and chest look good! I have been out in broad daylight and have been openly 'read', although only by a handful of people (all men)... by that I mean that they did a 'look'... I don't know what was in their heads though. I have also had 'looks' from men that were very different and very flattering! Again... did they see me as female or something else that switched them on?

Number one rule.... if you don't want to stand out you need to blend... and that means doing the same as the crowd.

Oh yeah... smell is important too especially up close... your pheromones will be read very quickly... so some perfume is important... although not too much!

[Renee W]

To each his own, and I don't feel that this person hurt the CD community by going around like that. By going out and NOT trying to pass as a female, this person is making the statement of "it's just clothes that I like to wear". I'm sure a lot of us dream of the day when it will be acceptable for a man to be able to go to work wearing a nice dress or skirt and jacket and still be one of the guys, with people thinking that there is no difference between wearing that and a shirt and tie.

Yes, I do enjoy getting all dolled up with makeup, wig, the whole nine yards, I always shave prior to doing so, but that is for my own satisfaction.

[Beth Mays]

The single largest danger to our acceptance... our very own attitude.

[GingerLeigh]

In my opinion, do it right or don't do it at all. Yes yes.. we all know most of us will never really pass but at least make an effort to do so. I feel naked without a wig or makeup but again this is MY opinion, and how I roll. Not every crossdresser can or even want to go that far. Does it hurt the CD community? No, not unless he's robbing a bank or committing a heinous crime while dressed. The CD community will be viewed as odd regardless of how we present ourselves.

Whoever that was, she was braver than I so...ROCK ON GIRL! WALK LIKE YOU OWN THAT DRESS! Honestly, who am I to judge?

Ginger

[Badtranny]

Here is the bottom line kids, a dude with a mustache and lipstick who proudly rocks heels and skinny jeans is doing more for the "community" than a million closet cases silently wringing their hands in disgust at his hubris. I will be the first to say that is not MY way. I hated being read so much that I spent 8+ hours on the surgeons table. But I would also be the first to buy that person a drink and introduce myself. There are people who bring light to any room and Mr Mustache might just be one of those people. If he is, then you can be sure that people love him no matter what he's wearing. I think the word eccentric was invented to describe the crazy people that we like.

Confidence and Joy are communicable and people want them so they want to be around people that have them. Coming from a recovered closet queen, fear and timidity have never advanced a single thing. Nobody has ever resolved anything by being scared to examine it. The funny thing about leaders is they sometimes do funny things, but Columbus didn't set out to discover something that was already on a map somewhere. You wanna be safe and comfortable and reasonable? I wish you the best, but there are those that have some exploring to do, and I don't think it's right to cast aspersions while we stand on the shore in our sensible shoes.

[Tina B.]

If the Trans community wants a better image, at least among themselves, they might try being a lot less judgmental!. I was walking through the local mall one day, when I saw a CD'er and his wife, The CD'er was wearing a basic old house dress that looked like it belonged in the 40's. Bad hair, no makeup, and really stood out. I only noticed to important things about them, How Brave they where walking hand in hand, and how happy they looked, the rest is just not that important.
Tina B.

[kimdl93]

I'm going to stick with your question. I think you are asking how you can blend in.

Yes, there are things you can do so you won't necessarily draw undue attention to yourself. 1) Dress appropriately to the situation - if women are wearing T's and crops, then that's a look you should consider (in other words, unless you're clubbing don't get all glammed up) 2) get a good quality wig....preferably at a wig shop where you can get help with selection, 3) get breast forms, a corset/shapewear and padding (the eye pics up subtle cues to gender from the ratio of hips, waist, and shoulders, 4) become proficient with make up...and be subtle with it. (ie practice, practice, practice). 5) good grooming helps. (if you want to go out with facial hair, etc, that's fine, but if you want to blend...)

Not knowing your stature, its a little hard to make specific wardrobe suggestions. But generally to minimize the appearance of male shoulders, consider tops with dohlman or raglan shoulders, V-necklines, gathered or wrap waists. A necklace helps distract the eye from other features too.

[StaceyJane]

I've gotten to the point where I believe people should wear what they want to wear. It's not really my business to say I'm better than than them because I try really hard to pass and they don't. I get read more times than a magazine at a dentist office so I really shouldn't be attacking someone just because i don't think they pass.

[arbon]

Yes, people like the one you crossed paths with bring us down, since they fulfill everyone's expectations of us being the "bearded lady" from the circus. 1000%.




But, this is different. We're taking when someone's making no effort, not caring at all, and having no bottom level of decency.




I have met a couple of crossdressers who I think dress over the top, don't pass and maybe don't act so well.

But do I think they should conform to present in a way I think would be more appropriate?

Absolutely not.

If that is the way they want to present and go out that is their deal and their right. If that is who they are that is who they are. If they are a man that just likes wearing womens cloth, even if they have a beard, that's cool - they have some strong self esteem.

It does not hurt me or anyone else and I completly disagree that is hurts the cd or tg or ts community.

[Kate Simmons]

Sometimes it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. That having been said, there are always others whose main purpose in life seems to be criticizing others for whatever reason. The bottom line is Hon that whatever does not destroy us makes us stronger.:)

[Shelly Preston]

I am amazed that some have the bravery to go out dressed without a care in the world

I think what hurts us most is being dressed wrongly for the situation. That is why we get made fun off but some members of the public.

You have seen people get made ridiculed in the people of walmart pics and videos and the are not transgendered.

If you dress appropriately for the occasion and are confident in your presentation you may still get recognised as TG but people take less notice.


Secret you make me smile. Why do you make me smile? Well because you disagree with me and then you go on to say you have been out dressed. Ok......... CDs have a reputation of being picture addicts. I would think if you in fact went out in the real world you would have a picture of you in the real world. Ahhh but crap you dont even have a picture of your legs on here. Under your profile you got a pic of a corset. I mean girl who are you trying to kid?

Katie

Kate, Not everyone who goes out is a picture addict. I am someone who is out and about on a regular basis but I dont feel the need to post pictures every time I go out. Oh and Kate there are some pictures of me here being out and about. if you care to look

[susan scott]

I myself am what i consider to be a "7 iron" I look good from about 150 yards away ;)

LOL Me too I hope to get to a gap wedge

[kellycan27]

Sort of looks like a CD'ier than thou thread lol. This is a first for me.:heehee:

kel

[Nicole Erin]

for not standing out as a CD - pretty simple - hide the masculine traits best you can and try to accentuate the femme ones. If you go out en femme, maybe wear something that women normally wear, don't go out in a cheerleader and fishnet outfit.

Even if you don't pass, people will be less likely to stare or give a hard time if you try to look presentable.

[Kristy_Iowa_CD]

Besides my real questions was about how to not be the center of attention while out dressed.
I'll try and give my 2 cents about your question.

My advice to not be the center of attention is to try and have everything about you be feminine. Not just your clothes, accessories and makup, but the way you speak, the way you move, the way interact with others, everything! Kudos to the person you descibred going out in public in feminie attire but with masculine body hair - if that is what makes him/her happy then more power to him/her! But what was it that made that person stick out to you? It was more than likely the combination of male and female traits.

Most people have very simple views of the world. They like men to look and act like men and women to look and act like women. When I go out en femme I concentrate very hard on having everything about me be feminine (and I practice things like speaking and mannerisms when I'm in drab too). At 6 feet 4 with a football players chest I am not passable and I never will be. However, I can honestly say I have never not been accepted. I have heard a few snickers and the occasionally "oh my god", but when I act like a woman and speak to them like a woman (notice I say speak and not sound - there is a difference) people's preconcieved notions of a man-in-a-dress quickly dissappear (at least in my experience).

If you don't want to be the center of attention - be a woman - not just a man acting like a woman. That probably sounds a little cliche but thats been my experience from my little corner of the world :)

[Secret_Dresser]

Secret you make me smile. Why do you make me smile? Well because you disagree with me and then you go on to say you have been out dressed. Ok......... CDs have a reputation of being picture addicts. I would think if you in fact went out in the real world you would have a picture of you in the real world. Ahhh but crap you dont even have a picture of your legs on here. Under your profile you got a pic of a corset. I mean girl who are you trying to kid?

Katie

Actually I said that I havnt yet went out en femme, the original post reads initially "while I cant say that I myself have..." that somewhat says to me that I havnt been out into the world dressed. In regards to picsm i do in fact have pics of my legs on here, try looking at my fist pic thread attachments, fair play they are encased in nylon but they are still up here.

Sorry if this sounded harsh, it wasn't intended just trying to make my point clear.

[Lorna]

I am in no position to be judgemental or harsh. One reason I don't go out dressed is because I know (believe) I would attract unwanted attention - I'm just being realistic. I'm not very observant, anyway, and in most of the places I frequent I am not aware of seeing any cross dressers. On the other hand, perhaps I do see them and because they do it so well (like some of the members of this forum) I am not even aware that they are men dressed as women. I have had the experience of working with a man who underwent gender change procedures and I had no difficulty accepting her in her new identity and as far as I know, only those of us who knew her before her change would have realised that she was once a man. I and colleagues treated her as a woman in every respect.

However, on just two occasions (both on train journeys as it happens) I found myself standing close to a man dressed as a woman. One was on a crowded local train out of Waterloo and the other was on Salisbury station. In both cases, it appeared that the individual had tried hard to look female but had fallen a very long way short of achieving it. Also in both cases, people around commented adversely but not aggressively about what/who they had seen once the individual concerned had moved away.

I suppose in some bizarre way this suggests that both extremes are widely acceptable: the cross dresser who has achieved total credibility as a woman and the one who makes a statement that he is a man but chooses to wear female dress. People might laugh at the latter but probably acknowledge his right to wear what he likes. Those in between, though, deserve some empathy. Despite obviously trying hard, their efforts leave them looking like men in dresses and that probably makes them unhappy, too. I know that I would be in that in-between category but (I hope) I am avoiding the hurt by dressing in private just to please myself. Each to his/her own.

[Briana90802]

Sometimes it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. That having been said, there are always others whose main purpose in life seems to be criticizing others for whatever reason. The bottom line is Hon that whatever does not destroy us makes us stronger.:)

Tell that to the two gay men who were killed walking down the street(two blocks from my house)! Two separate occassions both attacked just because they were gay. A scary thought for a CDer.

[Jacqueline Winona]

In Long Beach, Briana? Wow, that is surprising. It seems like a pretty progressive place.

[5150 Girl]

I don't know, I think SOMETIMES a little tell tail is good. I have said it before a milon times, The more comon place we make ourselves the more comon pl;ace we become. Ok, so every detail is perfect, exept, maybeI have a 5:00 shadow peaking out. If people see "the boy in a dress" behaving /acting just a normal as everyone else in Kroger's, then hopfully they'll get the idia that "those people" really aren't that much difrent after all....

[charlie]

I don't "think" it is as hard to pass as you make it out to be, most of us would never pass a close inspection but just browsing in a store or walking down the sidewalk most people aren't paying that close of attention. I have been in situation where I know I passed and others where I think they were just being polite.

I think that for most of us it is a matter of feet. I think that I do well passing as long as people are 10 to 15 feet away. Everything gets more iffy the closer people are to me.

Hello Briana!
What I have found is that dressing to be the best girl that you can be helps. If you are somewhat shy and don't want to be seen immediately....dress like a conservative girl (GG) on the street. Wearing 5" heels and a mini is great fun,but will draw attention fast. Wearing a long sleeve dress that comes just above the knee may not be as much fun, but it may save embarrassment or worse.

[Mikaela]

I lived in Long Beach (now in the Valley). Yes, the city is pretty gay friendly but that's not the same as saying everyone there is.
My former in-laws, who live right on Ocean, downtown, used to say some pretty nasty things come time for Pride about all the f**s and boxlickers and stuff. And, of course, there's some more 'urban' areas as well.

I'm going to the zoo on Monday with my girlfriend. Other than a trip to the mall last year, it's my only other time out during the day. I needed to accept myself and need to stop caring what other people think.

[BillieJoEllen]

As I've reported previously over the last four years I have seen four CDs out and about. Three have been bearded. The first one I saw out walking the streets. Clothes were very decent and she had long hair. She did have a long beard though. She came walking through our church parking lot one night after services were over. Nobody notices? Nobody cares? She came under a lot of criticism and I couldn't believe the comments people were making after they saw her. The second one was trying her hardest to present as a woman. There were a few things that gave her away to me. The third one I saw I followed into a consignment shop. She had her hair done in a very fussy manner, very nice jewelry and a miniskirt and a top to go along with it. Again, she was bearded. Last fall I once again saw a CDer in a local thrift store. She was loaded down with feminine attire and jewelry. She wasn't fooling anyone, even from four miles away. She had a very unique hairdo with lots of little bows and ribbons in it. Once again - she was bearded.

[kellycan27]

As I've reported previously over the last four years I have seen four CDs out and about. Three have been bearded. The first one I saw out walking the streets. Clothes were very decent and she had long hair. She did have a long beard though. She came walking through our church parking lot one night after services were over. Nobody notices? Nobody cares? She came under a lot of criticism and I couldn't believe the comments people were making after they saw her. The second one was trying her hardest to present as a woman. There were a few things that gave her away to me. The third one I saw I followed into a consignment shop. She had her hair done in a very fussy manner, very nice jewelry and a miniskirt and a top to go along with it. Again, she was bearded. Last fall I once again saw a CDer in a local thrift store. She was loaded down with feminine attire and jewelry. She wasn't fooling anyone, even from four miles away. She had a very unique hairdo with lots of little bows and ribbons in it. Once again - she was bearded.

Dang! What are the odds of you randomly running to like what 3-5 cross dressers and ALL of them sporting beards? Do you live in a Mennonite or Amish community or something? I lived most of my life in Las Vegas, Nevada, and Los Angeles, Ca. and Don't think in my 30 years I have encountered more than 2 or 3 cder's just by happenstance. Just saying........................

[Silentpartner GG SO]

As I've reported previously over the last four years I have seen four CDs out and about. Three have been bearded. The first one I saw out walking the streets. Clothes were very decent and she had long hair. She did have a long beard though. She came walking through our church parking lot one night after services were over. Nobody notices? Nobody cares? She came under a lot of criticism and I couldn't believe the comments people were making after they saw her. The second one was trying her hardest to present as a woman. There were a few things that gave her away to me. The third one I saw I followed into a consignment shop. She had her hair done in a very fussy manner, very nice jewelry and a miniskirt and a top to go along with it. Again, she was bearded. Last fall I once again saw a CDer in a local thrift store. She was loaded down with feminine attire and jewelry. She wasn't fooling anyone, even from four miles away. She had a very unique hairdo with lots of little bows and ribbons in it. Once again - she was bearded.

Crikey, so the law of averages must be about 1 in 100 CD'ers actually have beards - which means that if you saw 3 or 4 there must be at least a couple of hundred out and about in your area? but they must all be so well presented that nobody notices them. I can only recall seeing maybe a dozen at most in my long years that I've absolutely 'clocked' and I used to work in London.

[BillieJoEllen]

I do not normally see CDers. I did think it was very peculiar to see not only one but three bearded CDers in a very short space of time. The first one I had seen around town on a number of different ocassions while the other two I have only seen once each.

Funny thing is that I don't know ANY CDers in this city personally. I hope to eventually make contact with a few but for the longest time now I have been laid up with a serious injury. While stationed near Franfurt in the early 70s I saw hundreds of CDers. Saw quite a few in Munich also.

I have seen a number of CDers in Milwaukee. They have all been in shopping malls.

[Stephanie47]

I just had to skip down to the last page. Briana was asking a valid question. I'm an in-home cross dresser. I am not closeted because I do not live in a closet. I live in a home. My semi public outings have been limited to the dark hours of the evening. I am 200 pounds and six foot without heels. I know up close and personal I will be identifiable as a guy in a dress. So, what do I do to make myself look like a tall women from afar. I make sure when strolling I do not walk like a man. I've watched the YouTube/Internet videos on female deportment. And, I make sure I wear dark hosiery, either black on a dark neutral color. I also make sure I am freshly shaven. I also wear a wig with long tresses which I can arrange around my face and neck to partially obscure my facial features. I make sure my arms are covered. I usually wear a jacket or long sleeve dress for nightly strolls.

As to Brianna's visual of the obvious "man in a dress," I'd say he needs some fashion help. Not everyone can be a size ten. And, being a size ten will not necessary conceal the manly face-six o'clock shadow and angular features. There are many feminine choices for a plus size woman to really look attractive. I wear a size 18/20 and have a wonderful assortment of dresses (80). That being said, I see many many GG's who lack fashion sense and could definitely use an "ambush makeover." I also see a lot of guys who are total slobs with baggy, ill fitting pants that reveal the crack of their ass, a beer belly, ratty hair, etc. They probably attract as much attention as the cross dresser Brianna noted.

From my time on this site I get the impression most of us want to blend in and not stand out. To that extend I personally think cross dressers should do their best to look womanly. I'm waiting for the day for GG's at the mall to make comments that the cross dresser they are observing should be wearing a more age appropriate dress rather than make a comment that a man is wearing a dress.

[ReineD]

I seldom, very seldom see any CDers as well. But, this is because I'm like 95% of the people out there. I really don't focus on other people when I'm out & about unless I'm interacting directly with them.

I have noticed a few CDers over the years but this was only when they were right next to me looking in the same section of clothing racks in stores. I suppose I'd notice more if I were an avid people watcher, sitting at a café watching people go by, or if I paid attention to the other patrons in a restaurant while I'm eating.

Once a young TS came out to me though. My SO and I were at a restaurant and she followed me into the ladies room. She made a comment about my outfit, I returned the compliment, and then she told me she was a birth male!! I said, "GET OUT!" (Ã* la Elaine Benes). There is no way I would have known. She was in her 20s, long blonde hair, and about 5'5" or 5'6". She was just so tiny compared to me. I'm 5'9" plus I was wearing heels. We started talking and I told her that my SO was a CDer and invited her to come sit with us for awhile. She did and we all had a lovely conversation. This was quite a few years ago, before I was involved with this forum.