I don't get this whole shame issue

[Jay Cee]

I've been semi-seriously dressing for a couple of years now. Came out to my wife at that time, and she has been super supportive since (even when I thought I was TS). She has repeatedly told me it is okay to dress in front of her, but I still have a real hard time with it. I still feel shame and disgust with myself sometimes, and I honestly thought I was over that.

I know I should acknowledge my femme side more, because it makes me feel better when I do. Yet part of my actively fights it. Why? Geez, its not like I am a kid anymore (in my 40's).

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[Secret_Dresser]

I know the feeling, although im only 20 atm.

I think it may have something to do with the fact our SO has fallen in love with the guy and not the female side that somewhat causes issues and shame when regarding dressing for our partners.

Just my thought, I could be wrong.

[AllieSF]

Jay, my recommendation is to ask your wife for a big hug and tell her why. After that, maybe you could start dressing in front of her a little at a time, one or two pieces of femme clothing and then slowly add more. That way you give yourself a chance to grow into it and do not unnecessarily shock your wife and in the end it may become more comfortable for you. I think that I would have the some issues as you do if I had an SO to dress in front of. I know that I would probably have to work my way into it based on how she would receive it all. Good luck and just remember that tomorrow is a new day and it also just happens to be the first day of there rest of your life.

[sandra-leigh]

Good luck and just remember that tomorrow is a new day and it also just happens to be the first day of there rest of your life.

Yeah, that. And it's also the Masquerade meeting, so you can practice with us!

[JohnH]

I still feel shame and disgust with myself sometimes, and I honestly thought I was over that.

You are a victim of stupid statements that were drummed into your head when you were a child - something like "Boys don't wear that", "Boys don't do that", or "Be a man - not a sissy"

Believe it or not it was common for boys at one time to wear dresses and Mary Jane shoes. That went away around the early to mid 20th Century.

So if you step back in history you can begin to clear your mind of shame and disgust.

John

[Princess_Andria]

Hiya hun sorry to hear you still have those feeling, im suprised though as your wife tells you its ok, i get the same from my GF and i've not looked back since. My theory on why part of you fights it is probably due to some kind of upbringing, or that a part of your mind is very set on societys view 'boys should be boys and girls should be girls'. Just try to relax, enjoy who you are, know that your wife both loves you has a man & as a girly guy. hopefully it will go in time hun x

[Anna Lorree]

Freud is the reason for the shame. Freud hit on a part of our social fabric that is very important. For thousands of years we have lived in a "might makes right" society. One of the vestiges is the of this is the desire by men to be the "top dog" and women tend to like men with power (resources). Freud called this "Penis Envy", today we call it "the man card". When we dress, we are handing in our man card, at least for a bit. Society tells us that this is a mortal sin, so we feel shame. Social conditioning is difficult to overcome.

Anna

[busker]

I've been semi-seriously dressing for a couple of years now. Came out to my wife at that time, and she has been super supportive since (even when I thought I was TS). She has repeatedly told me it is okay to dress in front of her, but I still have a real hard time with it. I still feel shame and disgust with myself sometimes, and I honestly thought I was over that.

I know I should acknowledge my femme side more, because it makes me feel better when I do. Yet part of my actively fights it. Why? Geez, its not like I am a kid anymore (in my 40's).

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Let's say that rather than dressing in front of your wife, you donned a policeman's uniform and presented yourself as a policeman. Let's further say that you have a certain respect for the police and now standing there in front of said policeman, you feel awkward because he knows that you are not a "real" policeman, and yet you are trying to present as though you are. It is possible in some way, that you feel guilt and shame because he has earned the right to be called a policeman and you have not. I don't think it has anything to do with your femme side, because I think dressing and having a femme side are not necessarily connected.
I'm sure that there are men around who can get chocked up at the right time at a girlie movie or have "isn't that baby so cute" or other feelings that we don't normally associate with men, who don't dress.
With strangers if you are out and about,it doesn't matter because you have no emotional ties to those people, but your wife knows you and knows full well you are not a woman, though she accepts your right to present that way at times, and accepts your feminine side. It is the theater that you have trouble getting past. IMHO

[Marleena]

Jay Cee just go for it. She will love you anyways. We can be our own worst enemies. It seems scary but she already knows and approves. Many of the girls here would love to have that acceptance. Well, read my signature.:)

[danielle.cd]

if i might put my two cents in : i like u have filled my wife in long ago , she likes to share clothes and jewlry and such and doesnt mind me dressing in front of her too much , shame an guilt seem to come in when i get feelings like i am a girl and i need to escape this manly shell , but on the other hand if i was to stay out of the closet so to speak i would loose so much of my life that i have worked hard to obtain, i want to be married to my wife and if i were to be a women full time i would basicly be telling her i dont care how u feel i care about what i want , she truly wants to see me happy. now if dressing ocationaly makes me happy then she says go for it , were i feel bad doing it in front of her is when i think how could me be dressed as a women make her happy . , that where i have to tell my self hey shes ok with it then shes ok with it if she wasnt she would let me know and i will rectify the situation then , i think for me theres a line that i wont cross because im scared too , i go out dressed on ocation that dont bother me what bothers me is when it takes over my life and thats all i can think about is being womenly and doing all the things women do thats when i freak out and purge even after u think u have accepted this lovley curse so to speak , therapy would probably do wonders but hey i just dont know how to go about seting it all up and how to pay for it but u might wana look into it

[AKKaren]

:straightface:Oh my...I feel the same way most of the time. My wife has wondered why I feel so awful being dressed around her. Shame is a big part. I am working on this every day.

[Jay Cee]

Thanks, everyone. I'm sure my upbringing has a lot to do with it. Some of the most inflential male role models in my youth were not very tolerant of "gender discrepancies." I guess more counselling and practice will help. And I get the feeling that once I work up the nerve to go to MAC and learn how to do makeup, I'll be feeling that much better about myself.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Shame is the feeling that you are a wrong person..that you are a lesser person..

It's insidious. The best way to deal with it is to face it with your logical and objective mind..sometimes getting others to reflect your goodness is essential, which is why i am a huge advocate of group therapy and outings..they are incredibly empowering for people going through shame/guilt over their crossdressing..

MAC is a place that "gets it".... we are a target market for them... they will treat you wonderfully, they will pamper you and help you, they will help with your shame because they will reflect back to you that you are good and worthy..

[Claire Cook]

Hi Jay,

Shame and guilt are probably the toughest issues we face personally (other than spousal / SO conflicts), and I'll wager that all of us have gone through some phase of this. You might ask yourself why you have these feelings. For me, reading Lacey Leigh's "Out and About: The Emancipated Crossdresser" helped me see a lot of things -- whether it is the Biblical so-called proscription against crossdressing, or how society perceives us, or our own self acceptance. She had three rules that I try to follow. For what they are worth, here they are, and they have helped me be prouder of who I am:

1. Accept yourself. Denial doesn't work. (That took a while for me.)

2. Assert yourself. You deserve the best. (Yes, I buy better clothes than I used to. And I expect to be treated as a lady when out and about.)

3. Allow yourself -- to enjoy your new freedom. (As many posts here have said, confidence and self-acceptance grows with experience. I'm always surprised at the positive reactions I have received.)

Hope this helps a little. Keep us posted!

[donnalee]

Hi Jay Cee
I think you need to sort out what your feelings are about in the first place. Is it that you feel you might cause a problem for your wife, or is it that there is a certain amount of self-loathing involved or it is it a combination of both (and maybe other) feelings? Your dressing is part of who you are and that is what your wife loves; the whole person, not just one side of it. I know she is trying to tell you this and it's an absolutely wonderful thing that she does. Just start slow and go easy as you don't want to frighten her with too much too soon. You're incredibly fortunate that she feels that way; I was also lucky in this regard and I wish the best for you, too.
Donna

[Foxglove]

Why do we feel shame? I think it can depend on the individual. It might be because of your upbringing, it might be because you're feeling the weight of society's expectations. On the other hand, it might just be you. You feel divided, you feel at war with yourself. You know you're male, yet you have feminine feelings at times. So you're uneasy because you feel you're not living up to your own expectations. You can feel shame if you say something stupid or do something dishonest. You've let yourself down. So a CDer might feel shame because he feels he's letting himself down. The trick is to see that you're not in fact letting yourself down. You have a dual nature to a certain extent, so you're not letting yourself down by living according to that nature, which is your true one.

Even if you're comfortable with your CDing within yourself, you can still feel ashamed in front of your wife because you feel you're letting her down. We do sometimes feel ashamed, even if we don't believe we've done something wrong, if we disappoint somebody else. But if your wife is truly cool with it, then you're not letting her down. So there's no real reason to feel shame.

Easy for me to say. I'm currently debating within myself whether I should come out to my son. One of the main reasons against doing so is that I fear he might be disappointed in me, and that would make me feel ashamed.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[noeleena]

Hi,

Whats one of the details in life that was so drummed in to us for years, it was more than a shame it was discusting & no one talked about it or wonted to yet its the basic part of our exsntance with out it we would not be here,

Oh dear im not allowed to even say the word. so what do i do forget it push it away bury it & say theres no such thing .

right......to feel guilty shamed & a down right out cast.

oh dear the word ,,,,,sex,,,,,,,,,gee i missed that when i was growing up i mean the unspoken word, & it appears the same is said about dressing in womens clothes .

My ? is why the very fabric of socity is based on sex , clothes & food, yet we have issues with all three,

As i said this was drummed in to us for years,

one, i wear womens clothes because i dont have male clothes is that strange well no.

go back to the Renaissance times what did men wear then so why this western thinking now men cant wear .......

Two, who has the right to say we can wear this or that,,,no one will tell me what i can & not wear. .

Three. i may have been percived as a male even that was wrong no one asked me or said why are you different, well two people knew so may be more,

There comes a time when you know people can accept our difference its we have to be sure in our selfs & do what we need to after the shock of what the ....... & then you just carry on being who you are , not allways yet people start to accept & understand maybe we are not so out of place not misfits or what ever saying .

we have as much right as every one else to live true to our selfs,

Iv done it, been down that one tough road , now its being accepted as a normal person iv used normal in the way it should be, nobody is really normal because we are all different in our own way, & that is how it should be,

...noeleena...

[kimdl93]

I think that fight will continue until you are able to entirely accept yourself for what you are. That is, when you get to the point of being able to say, I am transgendered and I'm proud of it. Until then, the deeply engrained social stigmas keep gnawing at you.

[Cheryl T]

I had the same issues when I first came out to my wife. I only wanted her to see me dressed or not...nothing in between, no viewing of the transformation.
It took some time and her reassurances that she was fine with it for me to become relaxed this way. Now it's second nature and I don't give it a thought.

[Jay Cee]

A bit of an update - I went pretty much full out tonight, except for makeup. I feel great, and relaxed. My wife is cool with it, and very complimentary. Once I get the makeup down pat... oh, look out world. :) I'll even post pics then, maybe.

Thank you all for your advice and encouragement. You ladies rock!

[Princess_Andria]

glad to hear you're feeling better tonite and defo show some pics if you want =P have fun hun, you rock too x

[ME2.0]

I also have a supportive wife (she even helps me shop), if you figure out how to deal with the shame, please let us know. The weird thing is most of the shame I feel is at work when I'm in my male role. I hold some shame that no one knows who I really am. I know that they can't accept me totally if they knew, but I feel like I'm decieving them. So in a way I'm not ashamed of my crossdressing, but ashamed that I'm forced to keep it a secret. I'm actually happier and more peaceful when I'm dressed. I think I look better as a woman, and feel actually more comfident as a woman, but it would be a heavy burden on my coworkers and even my career if everyone knew (possibly my family too). I wonder how many other people feel this way, I can't believe that I would be the only one.

Be close to your wife, don't keep secrets from her. If she's comfortable with your crossdressing, you have a much stronger relationship than you think. Don't take her for granted, or doubt her loyalty to you. You're a lucky guy-share yourself (all of yourself) with her, she's already invited you.

Staci

[sandra-leigh]

A bit of an update - I went pretty much full out tonight, except for makeup.

So when's our shopping trip?

[docrobbysherry]

I think if I was raised by my family and relatives with the idea that girlie men, (thanks for THAT ONE, Arnie!), r perfectly OK and natural, I wouldn't have a second thot about my CDing. As it is, after 4 years here of intense internet messaging and meeting a number of others, I can say I truly enjoy all aspects of dressing. Those feelings of shame and guilt don't suddenly jump up feeling like my heart's in my throat as they used to. However, I don't think they'll EVER go way completely!

[KellyJameson]

You are fighting the shame now that you learned from the past and the crossdressing symbolically triggers it.

You used the word disgust, this is the disgust of others being expressed through you for every moment of weakness (being human) that you showed from the very beginning. Try to remember moments of how you felt for being rejected ( disgust from others is rejection ) for being yourself.

Shame is the internal conflict between the genuine self and the false self adopted to survive. You are trying to express what has always been inside you and has always been rejected by others. It becomes a struggle between us and everyone who we carry inside of us but feels like we are fighting ourselves but in reality we are fighting the past.

It is good to feel this shame because it offers opportunity for personal growth by understanding it and than transcending it. As you do this you will experience moments of supreme clarity much like an epiphany and this is your mind healing from past wounds, it creates the sensation of freedom like you have been released from a prison. Your mind deepens in understanding of everything that has happened and is happening. We must walk back into the pain to be released from it. There is no shame in shame because it is not ours, we were poisoned by the fears of the world we live in.

Shame and fear of rejection go hand in hand. When you no longer fear rejection your shame will disappear but to not fear rejection you must completely accept and love yourself based on self independant of everything else. A form of unconditional love but with standards that you hold yourself to that has nothing to do with anyone else, it is a very private experience that happens between the real you and the false you that was created by and because of others.

You associate what you are doing as weakness and it is this weakness that disgusts you. The answer lies in your perception of weakness and why you feel disgust for this weakness, you must unlearn the ignorance and cruelties of others that created your false perception of truth. Think of it like an exorcism but instead of casting out demons you reject what has been done to you by others that keeps you rejecting yourself instead of accepting yourself.

Shame tormented me much of my life but there is an escape from it if you are willing to feel it, go into it and challenge it but this is only possible if you are willing to accept the risk of losing others or have absolute trust in them not to reject you for being you like what was done to you in the past. Belief in this trust is only possible if it is tested by the expression of your genuine self that you are still trying to discover so to have everything you must be willing to risk everything.

[Tina B.]

You've been dressing for a couple of years, I dressed for better than 20 years before I ever got over that feel of shame and embarrassment. When I told my wife about it, she accepted it right off, and started buying me clothes, but I still had to force myself to dress in front of her. It took a while, but the more I dressed around her, the more comfortable we both became with it. After awhile, our interactions are no different no matter what gender I'm dressed as, we are just comfortable with each other. But it took lot's of practice!
Tina B.

[suchacutie]

So is it possible for us to figure out why I have never felt any shame or guilt? Not for a second! I thought it was because Tina has only been around for 6 years and that the shame and guilt arose from the socialization issues we all face growing up, but compounded by our feminine sides pushing to come into the light. Clearly that assessment was wrong as shame seems to be ubiquitous regardless of the time our feminine sides emerge.

Ok, what has allowed me to avoid shame and/or guilt? Good question! All I can do is guess, so here are some guesses:

My wife and I discovered Tina together, and from the first moment my wife was very interested to understand this part of me. We first talked a lot, trying to find out what might have been Tina's role in the past when she was hidden from our view.

It's true that the very first time Tina emerged completely transformed was a nervous time, but not one of shame and guilt, but nervous because she knew she was a novice at being feminine and Tina has turned out to be incredibly fastidious, not wanting a hair out of place. The nervousness was about not disquising the male clues and not giving off enough feminine clues. My wife immediately started a conversation with Tina about how this looked, or how something might be improved, and the focus was always on helping Tina to be as complete as possible.

Also, Tina is now better understood by us, and she has become a part of our lexicon. We talk about how Tina would do this or that, or how she might react to a certain situation. Tina and my wife talk about me in the same way, completing the circle and making each of my gendered selves feel complete.

From the beginning, my wife has treated Tina as a person with a separate set of functions: "two applications working off the same database". So it's been an adventure to us, and to explore we need Tina to be herself.

Is it the intense curiosity about Tina that has kept away the shame and guilt? Is it the fact that I have never seen anything to be ashamed of or guilty about? Is it the fact that my wife sees this as a completely fascinating part of the man she married and that has rubbed off on me?

I wish I had THE answer that I could bottle and give to all of you. I'm convinced that having a mind that operates or has operated in two genders is a tremendous advantage, especially involving interpersonal relationships. How many "men" have you heard denigrating feminine thinking as illogical and unfathomable? I doubt that many of us here are confused about femininity. Maybe I should say that differently: There are none of here who are not interested in understanding everything we can about femininity. We aren't afraid of feminine thought processes, we are incredibly interested to know what being a women is all about, to the best of our ability. This is all very positive and should be celebrated, from my viewpoint!

So, look at us! Intelligent, observant, and so interested in our other genders that we spend a part of our time presenting in our other genders! To me it is a celebration! It is something most men can't begin to do! Straighten your bras and smile...girls!

tina

[Barbara Ella]

To beat my same old dead horse, I am new to crossdressing, 7 months. I think because I found this forum so early on, i have not developed the shame or guilt. i reject both. I cannot however dismiss rejection. I hate rejection. It is not shame, nor is it guilt, it is just not being recognized for acceptance. My wife initially supported me, but now I have been rejected, and put back in the closet. This does hurt. But she is not ashamed of me, and i feel no guilt in what I do, I just need to learn how to deal with rejection and keep this all fun. And if I ever do go out, i will probably have to deal with rejection some more.

Barbara

[Voulez-Vous]

Society tells us that this is a mortal sin, so we feel shame.

WHAT? You mean it's NOT?