Question for all of you in the closet

[JessHaust]

Ladies,
This question is for all of you still in the closet, particularly those that continually post that they are in with the door firmly shut.

If you have been here for a while you will know that I am anything but in the closet, if you are new, find and read some of my posts.

So my question is this: What is it that YOU think that makes your situation so very different than mine? (and others like me)

I heard all the time about how no one would accept them, yet I am out to everyone, wife, kids, friends. Not just 2 or 3 people, but around 30. NONE of them have any issues with it. they are all different ages, and from diverse backgrounds. So Why will all the people in your lives be so different?

I also hear, "I live in a very CD unfriendly place". Yet I live in the land of the Bible belt, Conservative, republican strong hold. Hell when I go mountain biking sometimes the trail is blocked by secret service because George W. Bush has decided to ride that trail today. Yes he lives here. But I go out on the town , Dallas, with my CD friends and we are happily accepted everywhere we go, and we go everywhere. So What makes your city/town so different?

Yes, I know I will get beat up over this one, but I'm used to it by now!

[VanessaJCD]

Jess,

Everyone's situation is different. Where they live, their family and friends, and their level of CD desire. I think all of that plays out in the decision.

I know you have read some of the out stories. Some are happy tales, some are not. There is the fear that yours will be one of the unhappy tales and why would anyone want that?

[JessHaust]

Jess,

Everyone's situation is different. Where they live, their family and friends, and their level of CD desire. I think all of that plays out in the decision.

I know you have read some of the out stories. Some are happy tales, some are not. There is the fear that yours will be one of the unhappy tales and why would anyone want that?

I think the good stories have out numbered the bad stories 100 to 1, so the odds are with you for a good experience.
But What I really want to know is Why exactly do people think that their situation will fall into the bad side. I know that they are different, but why is different always assumed to be bad?

[Sarah-J]

So my question is this: What is it that YOU think that makes your situation so very different than mine?


No, I'm not going to beat you up! I think that's a reasonable question and the only answer I have right now is: Nothing.

Your question got me to thinking and that's a good thing!

Obviously, the details of everyone's situation are different, but my reason for not coming out is simply because I'm not ready to come out yet. Don't know if I ever will be or will want to. Right now, I'm feeling no desire to do that. Perhaps that will change someday, I don't know. It's pretty cozy where I am right now and I'm happy with it. I've only been dressing for a few short years and am still working my way up the learning curve in both education and attire (I haven't even gotten into shaving or makeup yet and still don't know if I will).

Since I'm well into my 40's and have never been married (and I'm 99.99% heterosexual), I can only guess what kinds of things might be discussed behind my back, but it's nothing I've given any thought to until like... right now and, frankly, it doesn't bother me. So perhaps coming out may not be the shock to my family that I imagine it might be. (Even 750 miles away, I suspect my mother suspects that something might be 'different' about her little boy... but Moms seem to know everything anyway, don't they?) ;)

Okay, I've rambled enough.

[Kimberlyfaye]

I'm in the closet but my door is slightly open. I've been out in public a few times, some friends and ny partner know. I just feel afraid of what people will think of me and the jokes and nasty comments that will come with me opening that door. I know I shouldn't be but I just can't help it.

[JerseyGirlDonna]

Jess,
I have several issues at play at home. My wife knows I've CD'ed in the past, even caught me once. She asked me to stop and might even think that I have. We avoid the question now. I'm afraid that if I came out to her now, on top of the other issues going on, that would be the straw to break the camel's back. When other issues go away, I might tell her. Until then I dress to maintain my sanity and keep it to myself preserve peace at home. My wife has been supportive but not that supportive, if you get my drift......

[Rachel Renee]

It has taken me a long time to get to the point where I am not only comfortable, but happy about being a crossdresser. I had to get over the notion that I would somehow be betraying my family, my friends, my self, and society-at-large if I gave in and allowed myself to "come out". It has also taken me years to get to a presentable enough point where I feel like I could be around other people while dressed.

I have wanted to get outside for ages but the idea of actually coming out of the closet was, until recently, terrifying. Oddly, the idea of someone close to me finding out about my TG tendencies is not scary anymore. I'm not ready to shout from the rooftops but I am also not inclined to hide any longer. I am who I am. I am a crossdresser, it doesn't go away, there are many of us, and it's time for me to join the ranks of those that get out there and live. Wheels are in motion and I won't be staying in this closet much longer. That is a promise.

[StephanieDragg]

My feeling here is that everyone here is at a different point in this journey, there is a process everyone must take to feel comfortable with how far they are willing to go and feel good that taking a risk and being "exposed" is worth the gratification of the desires you have if you want to go out dressed, or come out to someone. That process does take some work through time, getting the right clothes, perfecting a certain look, practicing with make up and hair and of coarse being comfortable and confident enough to go through with it. I know I have been there. We also hear many stories here about cd's that have come out to their wives and found themselves dealing with divorce or other issues.

I know for a fact that I did not wake up one morning, try on a dress and say OMG I gotta get out to the mall and get some matching shoes for this!

[GingerLeigh]

Everyone may be all smiles when you're standing there, but it's the !@# they say when you're not. I see it at work. We have a TS woman and several openly gay people employed there. Before I fell under suspicion (and hence out of the loop) people would talk so nastily about them behind their backs, but would be all sweet as honey to them when they had to work with them. I imagine they still chatter about it, just now I'm included as a subject of their scorn. I've learned to live with the poisoned workplace and I have dealt with the blatant harassment. I cannot get the gumption to drive up to work in my prettiest dress and heels and punch in. I almost got the #$% kicked out of me when I was a kid for doing the same thing. That won't happen again.


ginger

[BillieJoEllen]

I got caught CDing by my mother one time as a fifteen year old. My parents let me know how very displeased they were. Three months later I got into some trouble connected with CDing. The police were extra harsh on me as were the psychiatrist and counselors connected to my case. When I was engaged to my wife , my fiance accidently found out about me. We almost didn't get married. Fortunately she accepted that part of me. Sixteen years later she had an abrupt about face and no longer tolerated it. We had a few separations because of my CDing. We no longer talk about it although I have tons of clothes. She 'outed' me to our church some years ago and they came down hard on me also.

I have in the past gone out quite a few times. Had some good times but those days are few and far between now. Since I've been retired I've suffered some physical maladies that have prevented me from participating even a little bit in my passion.

Most of my friends and family have also said they are intolerant of gays and CDers. These are all reasons I keep it mainly to myself except when I visit this site.

[MandyGG]

Jess, I don't mean this badly at all. So my question is genuine and not meant to sound nasty. Just saying that because sometimes things are taken out of context when read by another.

Do you mostly frequent the Oak Lawn area? Would you feel equally comfortable donning a pair of cowboy boots and Miss Me jeans and heading westward to cow town? Would you feel as safe?

[Barbara Ella]

Jess, no beating up. Like your posts too much to do that. Like has been said, everyone progresses at a different pace on their journey I would add that the development of, and the decision to go out is entirely mental. That includes the mental acceptance that we are comfortable with how we look and would be perceived, and that we would be comfortable. Not everyone's mind can make a rational decision regarding something that has been beaten into them over the many years of dressing, that they are not worthy of public display. We all know that is BS, but it is there for so many. I have been dressing for 7 months, and have been on this site for most of that time, so i do not harbor those negative feelings, and am progressing rather nicely, and do plan to go out.

But the decision to do this is one of getting the positive/negative balance in the mind. Your mind made that decision (cant say if it was easy or not, but you know what you went through). The wonderful positive stories that are posted here are a tremendous source of positive thoughts. But, even a 100 to 1 ratio may not be enough to counterbalance the feelings in someone's mind. It might need to be 10,000 to 1 to have an impact given on what that particular person has stored in his mind on the negative side. So not everyone will be as quick as some have been. Many could have so many bad points stored that the vision in their head is that it will never never happen. But this can change as more information, just what this forum supplies, is obtained.

The key is to never stop posting. I read where some girls dont post their going out because they consider it too "normal" and not worth writing about. Nothing we do is "normal" and everything we do provides one more piece of information for someone's balance point, so you never know when someone will benefit from a trivial or normal activity. They are all positives. They are activities that provide a thought that will be treasured by many of us.

Dont stop moving forward, and dont stop informing everybody here.

Love to all, Barbara

[BRANDYJ]

Jess, your question is a good one that no one is going to beat you up for. I might get beat up because of my response, but I'll risk it anyway.
For me, it's the very real feeling of fear of humiliation from those that know me and yes, even those that don't. I am not passable in daylight. I might get away with it in a dimly lit bar, but that's about it. I am not built small enough to go un- noticed. I for one would not go out knowing people will clearly see that I'm a man dressed like a woman. I know there are some that just don't care what others think. For what it's worth, I do. I also have this fear of making anyone around me feel uncomfortable. Many people when around someone "odd" do feel very uncomfortable and don't know how to act or what to say. I even have trouble shopping for woman’s clothes while in drab. I do it, but not comfortable doing it. I would never try anything on in a store. Further, I definitely would not shop while dressed. Not worth the feelings of fear for what others think. Also, I live in a small city and have been here for more then 50 years. I could run into someone that knows me just about anywhere. I am out to the extent that I have been to places that welcome CD's and TG's. I have no problem with that and enjoy it although it has been a few years since I've had the opportunity to go out. I also have some close friends that I have told after assessing their most likely reaction. Luckily, i have not been wrong yet. So my closet is not that shut. But it's only open to the level I am comfortable with. I'm not complaining and can live with it.

[JessHaust]

Jess, I don't mean this badly at all. So my question is genuine and not meant to sound nasty. Just saying that because sometimes things are taken out of context when read by another.

Do you mostly frequent the Oak Lawn area? Would you feel equally comfortable donning a pair of cowboy boots and Miss Me jeans and heading westward to cow town? Would you feel as safe?
Good question Erinswife,

Thank you for the question, and no I don't take it as nasty in any way, this is the kind of real questions we should be asking each other.

Since you mention the Gayborhood , the local slang for the oak lawn area. I'll assume you know the area. The Oak lawn area is always a good place and many events we attend end up there, but I do go other places and often.
Now in spite of the fact that I am a Texas native, Own and live on 50 acres and actually own cows and a couple of tractors, I have never enjoyed the cowboy image, and would never wear a cowboy hat and boots, even in drab! Oh, and I'm not a 'jeans' girl, it's skirts and dresses or nothing!

But I have gone to restaurants in Addison, Deep Ellem, McKinney ave, Downtown Dallas. I've been shopping at Grapevine mills mall, to the Lakewood theater, the Pocket Sandwich Theater, the Angelika theater and the Dallas Museum of Art. I've been to the new Omni hotel downtown by the convention center with 11 other girls for drinks after a GEAR meeting at La Madeline's . Last friday is a pretty good example - I met 2 of my CD friends at Nordstrums Rack across from Northpark, made her get a skirt (she was in jeans and we were in dresses!), we then went to Cosmic Cafe for dinner. After dinner we did go to Sue Ellen's, a lesbian bar in the gayborhood where we met 12 other girls (all CD's) plus a few GG's that know us there, we ended the evening at 3:00 am at Buzz Brew for coffee.
So yes, I go anywhere I want, I just don't want to go to the stockyard or the rodeo, I see cows everyday.

PS. If you are in this area, pm me and I can give you more info.

[docrobbysherry]

Why would ANYONE HERE not respect the fact that u r simply being yourself and enjoying your life? I'm very happy for u, Jess! I'll be surprised if u receive ANY flack for your post!

But, to get your question, "What makes MY situation different from yours"? Never mind that that's a bit naive of u, as others have pointed out. OK, here goes. "Why I'm a closet dresser":

1. Similar to what Brandy said, I couldn't pass at midnite during a blackout!

2. I don't NEED to go out dressed to enjoy myself! I don't even feel or believe in my heart that I'm TG! Hey! I'm a CD, not a TS!

3. I dress for the excitement, challenge, and satisfaction of it! Dressing in granny gear, (I'm over 60), to shop for cat food at the market is NOT WHAT BLOWS MY HAIR BACK!

4. I don't care to compromise how I dress. Hooker, semi naked, movie star, stripper, or waitress. Dressing to blend to please vanilla folks is NOT enjoyable, only stressful for me!

5. If I run into my daughter's 3rd grade teacher, (as happened recently), or someone else who knows me while shopping for ladies shoes in drab, it's NOT a problem. If Sherry was recognized doing that? It COULD be a problem! I don't need more problems in my life!

[MandyGG]

Awww. Pocket Sandwich Theater. I have had some good times there! Since I was a "hag" in my younger day, I was always at the Village and never went into Sue Ellen's. Is the chinese restaurant still next door? They had GOOD egg fu young. Anywho....

All of the places that you have mentioned are VERY open and urban. Usually with more money and youth comes more acceptance. Basically, the feel of the trendy Dallas area is moving north and has been with rapid speed for some time. You don't even notice the transition between Addison and Downtown anymore. The areas are so connected and intertwined. It is so easy to blend here. Acceptance is easier. I love my fair city, I have lived here most of my life. Cows or No Cows, I wonder if the TG community is equally comfortable in the Ft Worth area? I have never been there with anyone TG (except for with my husband in drab, so that doesn't count), so I can't judge the feel of it. Where as in Dallas I have been all over the dang place with Drag Queens and dainty little gays and they were never uncomfortable. Yes, I DO know the difference between a drag queen and a crossdresser!! LOL! (I am proud of your daughter, btw!)

PS - I would love some information about the CD community in the area, just to hold on to if my husband decides that he would like to look into it. Thank you!

[busker]

Ladies,
This question is for all of you still in the closet, particularly those that continually post that they are in with the door firmly shut.

If you have been here for a while you will know that I am anything but in the closet, if you are new, find and read some of my posts.

So my question is this: What is it that YOU think that makes your situation so very different than mine? (and others like me)

I heard all the time about how no one would accept them, yet I am out to everyone, wife, kids, friends. Not just 2 or 3 people, but around 30. NONE of them have any issues with it. they are all different ages, and from diverse backgrounds. So Why will all the people in your lives be so different?

I also hear, "I live in a very CD unfriendly place". Yet I live in the land of the Bible belt, Conservative, republican strong hold. Hell when I go mountain biking sometimes the trail is blocked by secret service because George W. Bush has decided to ride that trail today. Yes he lives here. But I go out on the town , Dallas, with my CD friends and we are happily accepted everywhere we go, and we go everywhere. So What makes your city/town so different?

Yes, I know I will get beat up over this one, but I'm used to it by now!

Some reasons, Jess, aren't exactly the real reasons but the phrase that is easiest to write. It may NOT explain the deepest feelings of someone, but if they say, "CD unfriendly place" it works as an excuse because it could be true and it is one that is easily acceptable to many readers.

Lets switch to musicians and artists or actors even for a minute. There are many gifted amateur musicians and artists and actors who do what they do for the love of it, and not for the notoriety. They simply love to play or paint or appear in local theater. They don't want the hassles of being a professional, and also have other interests in life. They likely get the same kind of question. Why don't you want to do this for a living? Your are so good (passable....) It is a choice that some people make, and it can be equally apply to crossdressers. They are not interested in strutting their stuff in public. And, IMHO, dressing has no real connection with feelings of femininity, anymore that we would expect Einstein to dress in a tuxedo just because he was a brilliant physicist. Perhaps the problem is that those two ideas have become connected when we know that there are dressers who do it only for pleasure--or exhibitionism or many other reasons.
Those who combine their femme feelings with dress and get out should be fine with their acceptance of folks who simply want to stay home and enjoy the aura of the moment in the confines of their home. Pushing--whether it is in a line--or on the forum --is decidedly unfriendly. I think everyone enjoys the thrills of those who go out vicariously, but it should work both ways. You should enjoy the tales of those who stay home, firmly, or not so firmly, in their "closets".

[Voulez-Vous]

I also hear, "I live in a very CD unfriendly place". Yet I live in the land of the Bible belt, Conservative, republican strong hold.

Jess: I think there are places where it is "extremely CD unfriendly". I'm pretty sure I live in one. And, most of us aren't nearly as passable as you. Don't start, because in your pics, you look pretty darn good.

[Marleena]

Jess I've said it before but you seem to be an exception with people greeting you as a CD with open arms. I see so many CDer's here taking a beating for coming out when they don't need to.

I live in a transphobic city. It is a blue collar car factory lunch bucket city. The girls I have been in contact with will not CD here under any circumstances since they don't feel safe. The shrink I came out to over pain and meds issues from a work injury asked me the same question. "do you go out in public here"? My answer was no. I asked him if he had any other TG patients (it's not his expertise btw) he said 4 others. He also told me one moved out of the city because she did not feel safe. That was enough confirmation for me. So I travel out of town myself.

BUT if I was transsexual or living 24/7 as a woman I would move to a new neighborhood and at least try it here. That would make me at least attempt it.

[Stephanie47]

I dress for the peace and tranquility it brings me. CDing is a stress reliever. It is not stressful to CD in the confines of one's own home or backyard or take that secluded walk in the dark. Am I, who is six foot/200 pounds, to don a dress and heels and strut through the neighborhood? To what end? To bring a limitation to involvement with family and friends? A comment above said it all. The comments made behind your back are not the same comments made to your face. I've run into some really bigoted comments because a person, based on a long term friendly relationship, thinks you wallow in the same filthy and disgusting thoughts they have.

Yes, I'm in a DADT relationship with my wife. We weathered the storms. Am I to submit myself to the storms and cold fronts that will arrive because I think everything is really cool with wearing a dress and heels? I'd rather not trade all my relationships for one or two CDer friends, who may appear in the future.

[EjayeCD]

Jess, I wish I had your courage. I hope some day to go out in public without ant fear.

[Ally 2112]

I think it is a fair question Jess .Over the past 5 years i have come more to acceppt myself which means i have come farther out of the closet .As i posted awhile back i did venture out one night (but have not since) .
Saying this im kinda in the same position as Marleena. Im sure i live in the same region and my city is pretty much the same so i am careful what i do and say

If i do shop it is usually way out of town in a bigger center as there are absoloutly no cd or tg friendly places in my redneck area of the woods anyhoo jusy my story lol

[Sharon B.]

I don't think I would be making the kinda of money I do make when I am working should I come out of the closet. Highway construction is rough the way it is for the straight and narrow minded people.
I do enjoy dressing and going out for drives and have gone out shopping in drab attire but under-dressed as a woman with some makeup on. One of these days I may say the h*ll with it and go out completely dressed.
When that times comes I will let everybody know that I enjoy dressing as a woman and should I lose my friends and family then they really weren't worth having anyway.

[JessHaust]

So far all fair and honest responses.
But to the comments that people will be nice to your face, then talk bad about you behind your back, Yes of course, but this is by no means limited to cross dressing.
If you think you are preventing some people from talking bad about you behind your back by only presenting a male form, you are sadly mistaken.
The kind of people who act that way will find something to talk about, so I say might as well make it a doosey!

[Marleena]

So far all fair and honest responses.
But to the comments that people will be nice to your face, then talk bad about you behind your back, Yes of course, but this is by no means limited to cross dressing.
If you think you are preventing some people from talking bad about you behind your back by only presenting a male form, you are sadly mistaken.
The kind of people who act that way will find something to talk about, so I say might as well make it a doosey!



Agreed... Let's give them something to talk about.:)

[JessHaust]

Jess, I wish I had your courage. I hope some day to go out in public without ant fear.
If I could bottle up and upload some of my courage I would do it!
Remember that brave people are no less scared than anyone else, they just push through the fear!

And Marleena, I need to plan a trip to Canada and we can both go give then something to talk about!

[Voulez-Vous]

Agreed... Let's give them something to talk about.:)

How about love, love, love, love?

[Crissy Kay]

You may not like to hear it, but I am happy as a guy most of the time. Even after several years here on the forum, I just have no interest in going out, or in fem street clothes.

[suzy1]

What some members do not [or can not] understand is that some of us have no need to ‘go out dressed’ we are very happy and fulfilled in our closet.
Let me repeat, very happy and fulfilled in our closet.

As for the word ‘closet’ it paints a picture of someone like me cowering in a dark place, filled with guilt, shame and wishing I had the backbone to go out dressed. How derogatory is that!

One member here is just downright rude about members like me not having the b***s to go out. [Yes I mean you who got that rather strong P.M. from me the other day]

So on behalf of all the happy members here that do not go out dressed can I explain to the others that some of us choose not to go out dressed. We have no need to go out dressed. If that makes us less of a C.D. person in anybody’s eyes then please P.M. me. I would like to have a chat with you.

And if you are going to say we are not supporting the move towards being accepted out in the big wide world, well you go ahead without me, O.K.?

[JessHaust]

You may not like to hear it, but I am happy as a guy most of the time. Even after several years here on the forum, I just have no interest in going out, or in fem street clothes.

No , love to hear it! I'm very happy as a guy too, that's why I'm Transgender and not transexual! ( OK for those with the different definition of transgender, I'm a cross dresser and not transexual)
I'm just very happy to get to be both guy and girl.

Suzy, Sorry, I'm not trying to be disrespectful with the term 'Closet' and only use it because it is commonly to describe keeping one's secrets to oneself. It's applied to us, gays, and all kinds of people with personal secrets.
And I'm not saying you don't have the right to keep your secrets to yourself. I am just curious about the different perceptions we have about how the rest of the world see's us. I ask this question of the members here who stay in as I believe their thoughts will be the strongest feelings of persecution . I ask them to compare their feelings with my experiences to get an understanding of how they feel, not to drive them outside of their comfort zone. And also I want to see the responses of people once they think about the question, some have already indicated that it has sparked an interesting thought process.

[Crissy Kay]

YEA Suzy1!!! I think she speaks for most of us "closet' girls!!! We are happy the way we are. I am also happy to hear that Jess is happy as a cd, and guy too!!

[ReineD]

So my question is this: What is it that YOU think that makes your situation so very different than mine? (and others like me)

Tell me Jess, how many years did it take you to go out? Had someone told you before you were ready or before your partner knew (assuming you have not told every partner in your life right off the bat) that you "should" go out in public, what would have been your reaction? This is where you will find your answer.

Everyone meanders along the path at their own rate, and also some of the paths diverge based on different personalities, different life circumstances, and different needs. Please accept this.

Also a word of warning for everyone: although civilized discussion is always beneficial, if this thread morphs into another ugly and flame-filled debate about "out" vs. "in" (we've had our fair share of these), I will close it.

[JessHaust]

Tell me Jess, how many years did it take you to go out? Had someone told you before you were ready or before your partner knew (assuming you have not told every partner in your life right off the bat) that you "should" go out in public, what would have been your reaction? This is where you will find your answer.

Everyone meanders along the path at their own rate, and also some of the paths diverge based on different personalities, different life circumstances, and different needs. Please accept this.

Also a word of warning for everyone: although civilized discussion is always beneficial, if this thread morphs into another ugly and flame-filled debate about "out" vs. "in" (we've had our fair share of these), I will close it.

My wife has known for 35 years, I told her when we started dating. I was closeted for the last 50. If some one had told me to go out and that there were actually other people like me out there I would have jumped at the chance. The only reason I stayed closeted was because i thought I was alone and had no way of finding others.
How have I been going out? First time I ever dressed in full makeup, wig dress and all was Nov 5, 2011, halloween party at my house. Next was 2 weeks later, went to the movies. Then 2 weeks later I found the local CD group and have been going out several times a week ever since.
Once I discovered that there were other people I did jump at the chance, just wish I had found out sooner. Maybe if I had found this forum sooner, and somebody had asked the right questions.....

And please lets keep this light. No wars here , just honest questions and honest answers. Nobody, especially myself, is trying say any of our opinions is better than anybody else's, We all do what we feel is right in our own situations and that's exactly what we should do. I really just want to know how we all feel.

[Foxglove]

Everyone meanders along the path at their own rate, and also some of the paths diverge based on different personalities, different life circumstances, and different needs. Please accept this.


Spot on.


My wife has known for 35 years, I told her when we started dating. I was closeted for the last 50.


C'mon, Jess. You had 50 years? Then maybe the rest of us are entitled to a bit of time.

I finally came out to myself only about 5 months ago. Now I would like to get out in public, and perhaps some day I will. But I'm not pushing it. I'll take it at my own pace. I need time to get comfortable with myself first.

One of my main considerations is where I live: a very small town where I'd stick out like a sore thumb if I were recognized, which I undoubtedly would be. It might make sense for me to move to a larger place. A TS friend of mine recently concurred with me on this. So perhaps that's what I'll have to do. I'm considering my options, but I will go at my own pace.

Jess, your question is valid and there's no reason not to raise it. But two provisos: you've stated that happy comings-out outnumber the unfortunate ones by about 100 to 1. Not so sure of that myself. I'd want to see some scientific data.

Secondly, I think you're falling into what I call the "St. Paul Fallacy": "What is true of me is true of the whole world."

Best wishes, Annabelle

[whowhatwhen]

I'll give my reason without trying to get too violin-y.
Basically my life is a mess, between depression and health problems I've painted myself into an awkward corner which I'm struggling to free myself of.

As such, at the moment my family is all I have.
I owe them everything especially for all their support when I've been sick.

The thought of losing them, and or having their perception of me permanently change is terrifying.
Especially when I don't know the answers to any questions they may ask.

I'm at least looking into therapy but being jobless, depressed, and broke doesn't lend itself well to crossdressing let alone going out anywhere.
I won't beat up anyone over questions though, it's all interesting thought that helps everyone learn and understand more about themselves.

[STACY B]

Asked it before ,,,, MISTAKE 1) Get ready to get it good SISSTA ,, Just leave em alone DADT ,,, If they want to stay in let em stay . MILLIONS of reasons MILLIONS !! So you made it out just be happy . Cuz you wont win this one TRUST ME ,,, IM OUTTA HERE ,,,, LOVE & LUCK .

[Anita S]

To anwer JessHaust's question:
I have no need to come out of the "closet", that's why I don't go out dressed up
For me and my wife, my CDing is a turn on (she's bisexual).
If I had any illusions that I could pass for a woman I'd maybe think about going outside dressed up.
As is, I have virtually no interest in going out en femme

But then there are other considerations:
I'm 6 ft tall and weigh 260 pounds (US womans size 20-22) and roughly built, very broad shoulders and so on.
I work on a fishing ship with 16 other guys staying out at least 4 weeks at a time, and if they find a weak spot to tease you on, you'll never hear the end of it
I live in a VERY small town where everybody knows everybody, if not personally, then by reputation

So going out dressed isn't at all attractive for me, and thankfully I have no need to do so

After browsing through this forum I feel blessed that my crossdressing is welcomed by my wife, I can only imagine the pain many of you feel, not being accepted by your partner

[jayme357]

It may have nothing to do with courage. As Suzy so clearly described, we all have different needs and desires. There was a time when going out into the world was fairly important to me. I did it, enjoyed it, and that's that. I no longer feel that need. I am quite content in my closet. Staying in my closet gives me all the satisfaction that I need and I feel no need whatsoever to venture out into the so called real world. Doesn't make me a bad person!

[JessHaust]

It may have nothing to do with courage. As Suzy so clearly described, we all have different needs and desires. There was a time when going out into the world was fairly important to me. I did it, enjoyed it, and that's that. I no longer feel that need. I am quite content in my closet. Staying in my closet gives me all the satisfaction that I need and I feel no need whatsoever to venture out into the so called real world. Doesn't make me a bad person!

There are no bad people here! just different people.

[Kaz]

Jess,

I love your posts and have genuinely valued what you bring, but I find this post one of the more difficult as it takes a certain stance that many could have difficulty with and I totally accept Reine's advice. My view is simple... we are all different. We have had different upbringings, life experiences, etc.. our reasons for doing what we do are varied and complex. I totally accept the rights of everyone here to live the life that they choose to. If I can help based on my experience and knowledge I will. I will also hope to learn from my peers on the site.

It sounds like your life has been different from mine.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

I have asked my husband at least a dozen times - do you want to go out dressed - and he has said every time, no, he has absolutely no desire whatever to go anywhere - he's very happy to do his own thing at home.

[Miriam-J]

I'm with Suzy and Crissy on this one. I'm quite comfortable just dressing in my home with my wife, and that generally brings sufficient satisfaction. I'm curious about:
- Going out to restaurants and shops
- Meeting and sharing with other CDs
This curiosity has been stirred by this forum, but that doesn't mean I need to act on it. And if I do act on it, I will do so at a time and place that has essentially zero risk to job or family.

Isn't freedom all about doing what brings you satisfaction?

Miriam

[suchacutie]

Ok, I admit I'm a private person in general. There are many...I repeat MANY...idiocyncracies that I have and that I completely enjoy. It is very likely that I will never tell any of you here about them, and I'm certainly not going to inform my mother of them either! I'm sure that everyone here has something that they aren't in a big hurry to share with others!

So why is sharing our feminine selves with others even an issue (besides our spouses!)? Personally, I'm out to all those I have chosen to be out to, and I'm quite pleased with that stance. I really don't sit around wondering if others are concerned about whether I'm out to everyone, or if I'm "in the closet".

So, Jess, am I different from you? I don't know, and in all honesty, it's not an issue for me. How do I feel? I feel that my business is mine and no one else's. If I want to share something personnal, I will. If not, then I don't tell them. If Tina wants to go out to dinner, she will, and if she doesn't, I'm not sure how that's an issue? Tina is extremely happy. She doesn't compare herself to anyone (unless they have better makeup!!!! :) ) as far their social activities. Heck, I don't do that in male mode either! If someone wishes help in accomplishing some goal, we should all support them. Otherwise, is this kind of discussion helpful?

Just askin.

That's how I feel.

[MicheleCooper]

Rather funny my first post is why I am not 'outing' myself in the world. Trust me, I would love to be able to play video games/role playing games (err...I should clarify I mean Dungeons and Dragons type role playing, not daddy/babysitter role playing), or even be able to be dressed and play a good game of Monopoly. But I am a private person, my girlfriend and one other person knows my dressing and they also understand it also is a great therapy for me. Are there points were I could scream to the heavens who and what I do? Of course, I think we all hit that point just like at one time or another have gone through purging of our fem clothes. But for now I am just looking for other crossdressers where I can speak freely, and from looking at other posts here everyone here is treated like a family member, lots of support. And for this I say bravo! For those who are out in the public, I give you the biggest applause. And maybe in the future I will come out of the slightly opened closet door and come out with my heels a clicking, until then I stay on the carpet so my heels don't make noise.

[CONSUELO]

Was it Roosevelt who said that the only thing that we have to fear is fear itself. Coming out to family and friends is a big thing. I was on the other side of this when a fellow student decided to come out while going through counselling in preparation for SRS. Some people found it very hard to accept and I still remember their comments.

[NicoleScott]

Jess, the simple answer to your question (I came out, no problems, why is your life different?) is that my life is different, my situation is different. The answer was in the question. I know FOR SURE that I would lose my job. I know my boss (THE company boss), I have for over 20 years, I know his attitudes about people different than himself, and have seen him act on those attitudes. I have said this before and some people have said things like "Who would want to work for HIM? Get another job." or "You have rights." "You have recourse." etc. I have a good job. It pays well, I'm good at it, and I like it. I wouldn't want to end all that's good by coming out. It's not lack of bravery. It's being smart, knowing my situation and acting best for my family.
Also, I have no compelling reason to come out. Happy in the closet.

[Janelle_C]

For me I think it's my fear and my wifes fear that keeps me in my closet. I used to think that I would die if someone fond out. I think I was somewhat ashamed I thought there was something wrong with me. Them I fond this site and started therapy and fond out that I'm not alone and that there nothing wrong with me. I've got more work to do in therapy and I have to wait until my wife is ready. I think we underestimate people, for me it took me forever to love myself the way I am so it make it hard to believe that other will love that side of me.
Hugs, Janelle

[~Joanne~]

I think one word sums it up for me : FEAR. I have a lot of fears that I need to overcome and it's a slow and agonizing road to travel. I have been out here and there before, quick runs to the mail box (inside the same building), I have drove around under dressed (hose and heels), and even went out once fully enfemme on halloween. the desire to do more and go out more ( especially because of halloween) is always there but the fear keeps me inside.

I have just accepted this side of me myself. For the longest time I tried to deny it as just a really wild pantyhose fetish (which is still that way sometimes) but I came to terms that this is a part of who I am, it isn't going away, and I really do feel more relaxed and comfortable when en femme . That being that I am just now accepting this, I feel it's too soon to try and hope that others will accept also. I have the same fears a lot of girls have posted before me. I also still have a lot to learn and this forum has been both a god send and a curse at the same time.

There is a ton of useful information here from make up, clothing, advice, Friendship and the list goes on and on but then there is also the pressure sometimes. The pressure to be out there, to say to hell with the world, tell everyone and anyone, try it on at the store etc, etc, etc and personally I am not ready for any of this. I am not saying that it isn't right nor that it's not the path I should be walking but it takes time to actually reach that path and until your fully at ease with every aspect of your being the FEAR will keep you huddled in that closet which at this time, isn't all that bad ;)

[Dawn cd]

Jess is like Henry Higgins who wonders, "Why can't a closet CD be like me?" Well, you may view yourself as a model to be emulated, Jess, but in point of fact every person is different. We come into the life with different energies, different imaginations, different desires. We find satisfaction in different results. Maybe people just don't want to be like you.

[~Joanne~]

Jess is like Henry Higgins who wonders, "Why can't a closet CD be like me?" Well, you may view yourself as a model to be emulated, Jess, but in point of fact every person is different. We come into the life with different energies, different imaginations, different desires. We find satisfaction in different results. Maybe people just don't want to be like you.

I do. I want to be as self confident as jess everyday of my life. She's a lot braver than I am for sure but even more so she is completely true and at ease with herself which I am sure A LOT of us wish we were also though I am not speaking for anyone in general but myself.

Like you stated, we all have our own path though and will chose which route we want to take. :)

[Babeba]

Crystal and I went out for a short walk once, and got spooked by a bunch of drunks in a pickup shouting and slamming on their brakes. We had fun up to that point, but I don't think we're ready for a second outing yet.

I consider myself to be in the closet as a GG SO, because it is REALLY not my secret to be sharing. It is up to Crystal to decide who knows, who doesn't, and when they cross from
One category to another. Frankly, I think there would be an adjustment period for anyone who would find out... And for the most part I am just as happy not having to help deal with that for now.

[Alice Torn]

I have not been out dressed for almost two years. I am six foot six without heels! I can't escape lots of attention. I have an idea. Next time someone says OMG, or look, I might shout, "SMILE, YOU'RE ON CANDID CAMERA!" and go on.

[AlexisRaeMoon]

Easy - chickensh!t. I have no good reason, yet I haven't even told my wife. It's a Pandora's box that I'm terrified to open. I wish I had the courage of all the wonderful people here that have come out. It makes me feel like a bad person that I've kept this from the people closest to me, but I have a wonderful like and I'm loathe to take a step that might screw it up for everyone.

[Vanessa5]

On my journey I have gone out on occasion. Most times I do I am consantly thinking about running into someone that knows my family (kids and wife). I am out to my wife but not my kids. If some of their friends parents saw they may turn me into the village monster and escort me out of town with pitchforks and torches. Not to mention what my kids would endure in school or any other social meeting. That is why I am not out as much as some but more than others and thats OK by me.

[Jacqueline Winona]

Fear is certainly a part of it, but another part is I'm just not ready to contemplate what coming out to the world for a variety of reasons. You've all seen me say this before, but it's a battle I don't need to fight right now. I'm still coming to terms with who I am and lack of "CD maturity" plus no real incentive for me to come out are probably bigger than the fear. 24/7 dressing is something I just don't see myself doing as I still enjoy the guy side a lot as well. So, if I am only going to dress occasionally and I get enough satisfaction on my own (or sharing with those among us whom I know appreciate or accept it), why come out to the rest of the world? That's the best I can come up with. :)

[docrobbysherry]

Was it Roosevelt who said that the only thing that we have to fear is fear itself. Coming out to family and friends is a big thing. I was on the other side of this when a fellow student decided to come out while going through counselling in preparation for SRS. Some people found it very hard to accept and I still remember their comments.
Actually, I believe that was Churchill, Consuelo. But, T. Roosevelt DID say something very applicable to this subject; "If u go out dressed, walk quietly in your heels and carry a BIG STICK!"


Easy - chickensh!t. I have no good reason, yet I haven't even told my wife. It's a Pandora's box that I'm terrified to open. I wish I had the courage of all the wonderful people here that have come out. It makes me feel like a bad person that I've kept this from the people closest to me, but I have a wonderful like and I'm loathe to take a step that might screw it up for everyone.
I'd wager there r very few, if any, of us that at one time or another haven't suffered shame and guilt for our gender bending activities, Arianna. I'm STILL working my way thru this! So remember, you're NOT alone!

[ReineD]

I'm still coming to terms with who I am and lack of "CD maturity" plus no real incentive for me to come out are probably bigger than the fear. 24/7 dressing is something I just don't see myself doing as I still enjoy the guy side a lot as well.

Precisely! Everyone is different here, and has different needs.

[Sophie_C]

Ladies,
This question is for all of you still in the closet, particularly those that continually post that they are in with the door firmly shut.

If you have been here for a while you will know that I am anything but in the closet, if you are new, find and read some of my posts.

So my question is this: What is it that YOU think that makes your situation so very different than mine? (and others like me)

I heard all the time about how no one would accept them, yet I am out to everyone, wife, kids, friends. Not just 2 or 3 people, but around 30. NONE of them have any issues with it. they are all different ages, and from diverse backgrounds. So Why will all the people in your lives be so different?

I also hear, "I live in a very CD unfriendly place". Yet I live in the land of the Bible belt, Conservative, republican strong hold. Hell when I go mountain biking sometimes the trail is blocked by secret service because George W. Bush has decided to ride that trail today. Yes he lives here. But I go out on the town , Dallas, with my CD friends and we are happily accepted everywhere we go, and we go everywhere. So What makes your city/town so different?

Yes, I know I will get beat up over this one, but I'm used to it by now!

Look, I don't think people get how being closeted is a choice. Now, I think I could accept sheerly being a crossdresser, but I'm pretty damn certain I'm trans, which is an entirely different to people because of the degree of change and it's permanency. I've took stock of people I know and believe about 5% of them would still talk to me after it, and I just don't want to give them up right now. And, I don't want to give up my career. And, I don't want to be dirt poor. It's all about weighing out the end result. But, it's just for me, I don't think I'm better for it. It's just the best choice of the two I've got.

[GingerLeigh]

But to the comments that people will be nice to your face, then talk bad about you behind your back, Yes of course, but this is by no means limited to cross dressing. If you think you are preventing some people from talking bad about you behind your back by only presenting a male form, you are sadly mistaken.

True, tongues wag regardless of the topic. I just don't like the term "weirdo" or "freak" tied to my name in closed circles. People DO treat me differently now than they did when they didn't suspect me of crossdressing. Even the stand-up gentle folk are more aloof with me.

There are other reasons I won't venture out and one biggie is that I have little ones. People aren't that open minded when it comes to their kids. Do you believe parents will allow their kids to come over to my house to play with my children if they think their daddy is a "pervert"? What about the playground at school? Kids can be especially mean, I don't want mine to be ostracized or bullied because of my activities.

I honestly applaud you and others like you who have the courage and conviction to go out into public completely dressed enfemme and I may someday follow in your footsteps. Just not right now, and not in the near future.

Ginger

[JessHaust]

Ginger, as long as we hide, people will have no reason not to think we are 'perverts', how would they?

[suzy1]

Ginger, as long as we hide, people will have no reason not to think we are 'perverts', how would they?

You could turn that round the other way if you follow my drift. If we ‘hide away’ then they can’t call us perverts because they don’t know we exist.

Your turn.:heehee:

[JessHaust]

You could turn that round the other way if you follow my drift. If we ‘hide away’ then they can’t call us perverts because they don’t know we exist.

Your turn.:heehee:

yes, Suzy, that would work, except the cat is already out of the bag!

[suzy1]

yes, Suzy, that would work, except the cat is already out of the bag!

Works on an individual basis.:battingeyelashes:

[Kerigirl2009]

I like your question!!! I don't think our towns or the people we live around are any different. I just think we are mostly afraid of the what-ifs
then we think "OMG they would absolutely flip if they saw me now" I would have destroyed my life. God no one can ever ever ever know I wear that they would think I am less of a man
They would be right in my opinion we are less of a manwhen we dress as women for whatever reason we dress. But I also believe this makes us better as people because we can see on both sides of the fence. and the grass is always greener on the other side. But if you add people on that lawn it shrinks and we believe no one would accept us just for us being ourselves.
They accepted us once before, why should we be any different this time.
Of course they would stop inviting me to the Mens outings at church but I can live with that.
So no different just afraid of the what ifs

[GingerLeigh]

Well if it means ANYTHING at all, I have kept my legs shaved for the summer. Imagine the rumors now?! I can feel the suspicion grow into verification as we type...

[Kaz]

yes, Suzy, that would work, except the cat is already out of the bag!

Hmmm I am not sure which 'cat' and which 'bag' you are referring to? :heehee:

[JessHaust]

Hmmm I am not sure which 'cat' and which 'bag' you are referring to? :heehee:

People, in general, know that cross dressers exist, and some believe that they are perverts.

[Foxglove]

Jess, if I can put in my tuppence worth here: I think you mean well, and I appreciate the point that you're making--that the world may not be as dangerous as some of us believe. I think what's motivating you here is the notion that the more of us who get out in public, the better things will be for all of us. I think that's a praiseworthy motive, and I think you're probably right.

However, this isn't the first time this issue has been raised, and this isn't the first time that a lot of people have given you perfectly valid reasons for not getting out. Will I elaborate on my own?

I'm dressed at the moment and there's nothing preventing me from walking out the door to go to the library or do a bit of shopping, whatever. I think the first probable result of this act would be that my landlord would evict me.

The second result would be that within three days, tops, my son would find out about it. I'm not out to him, and I don't know if I want to be. It's a question I think about a lot. He lives on the other side of the country from me. But Ireland is a small country, more like a big family than a country, and what goes on in one corner is pretty quickly known in another.

So if I want to get out, maybe I need to move to a bigger town where I'm not known and also perhaps simply come out to my son. So will I move? I have good reason for staying put, and moving would be a big inconvenience in my life.

In any case, I'm not getting out any time soon for this reason: I'm no good with make-up. I've never done much with it in the past, but right now I'm in the process of determining what products I need and how to use them and how to get them. Once that's done, I'm going to need a fair bit of time and experimentation and practice to see if I can achieve an acceptable appearance. I absolutely won't go out otherwise. There are some CDers who are comfortable getting out without trying to present as female, but I'm not one of them. And how long will it be before I'm satisfied with my appearance? Hard to say. I have no artistic ability whatsoever, and I've no reason to think that I'll do any better on my face than I ever did on paper. But I plan to work at it, and truth be told I'm quite excited about it: I want to see if I can look like something besides an old hound dog who's just received a face full of grapeshot.

So do these strike you as valid reasons? You see, you know nothing about the house, the town, the country and the circumstances I'm living in. And many other people have given you reasons just as valid as mine. Some have said they won't get out simply because they don't want to, and it's their lives and their choice.

So I think we need to accept that each person will decide for herself what she wants to do, what is in her own best interests. This question is regularly raised, and some people bring to it what I might describe as an almost missionary zeal. There's one person in particular who regularly visits this forum solely to express her contempt (sometimes in rather vulgar terms) for those of us who don't currently get out. As I say, I think you mean well, and I have nothing against you raising the question, but this constant effort to persuade us to do something we don't feel is in our best interests does become a bit tiresome in the end. We reserve the right to think for ourselves.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Contessa]

When I get on this site I usually read all the replies to date before I reply. But no longer, I read some and then make my decision to get my one cent in. Jess I love(sorry not sexually) you. As I think you are trying to help some of the CDers here. I had fear of leaving the house too. So for over 40 years I didn't even realize I was afraid, cause I never dressed completely. Most of the time I only wore one Item. So I didn't realize that once you where one item more than twice you are a crossdresser. Think about this aren't you still a cd when you take off those whatevers. i.e. skirt, panties, makeup. Your dressed in drab but have on pantyhose or tights underneath. You are still a crossdresser same as completely in drab.

After 40 years of not going out dressed completely en femme when I stepped out I was shocked it was as if I had just started. I finally had my purse and was out dressed as a woman in public. If you fear anything then you need to get past it, there is no other way past that fear than head on. Like I had a fear of riding public transportation even at night but I have done it. I am moving past my fears and I am less fearful and more happy. I smile much more than I used too. If anyone asks me how can I do that I say I am not afraid. Cheryl T's signature helped me with this the most I love her too(sorry not sexually though). Her signature says Closets are for clothes. Not people and Natalie said "We do exist". I love them all they are all beautiful ladies. And everyone knows what I mean. Lorileah got me to come back as I wasn't going to once. Marleena is so right to the point also. Getting over fears, I'll write a book. What is fear of flying about? lol Anyway enough.


Tess

[Kimberlyfaye]

My gf says I shouldn't hide who I am but I always feel I have to. My "life" and I use the term to describe my male act to the world, would fall apart completely if some were to find out. So far only a few people know about me. I don't think I could continue working at my job due to the comments I would have to endure. I applaud and respect those of you who have stood up and said to the world "here I am, this is me, I don't care what you think". You really are what I would love to be. I agree that it seems you think the more of us that stand up and be recognised the easier it will be for us to be accepted. And I respect that so much too :-)

Can I ask Jess, how did you go about coming out to your close family and friends?

[docrobbysherry]

I disagree, Contessa, with your "fear", theory!

When I get on this site I usually read all the replies to date before I reply. But no longer, I read some and then make my decision to get my one cent in. Jess I love(sorry not sexually) you. As I think you are trying to help some of the CDers here. I had fear of leaving the house too. So for over 40 years I didn't even realize I was afraid, cause I never dressed completely. Most of the time I only wore one Item. So I didn't realize that once you where one item more than twice you are a crossdresser. Think about this aren't you still a cd when you take off those whatevers. i.e. skirt, panties, makeup. Your dressed in drab but have on pantyhose or tights underneath. You are still a crossdresser same as completely in drab.

After 40 years of not going out dressed completely en femme when I stepped out I was shocked it was as if I had just started. I finally had my purse and was out dressed as a woman in public. If you fear anything then you need to get past it, there is no other way past that fear than head on. Like I had a fear of riding public transportation even at night but I have done it. I am moving past my fears and I am less fearful and more happy. I smile much more than I used too. If anyone asks me how can I do that I say I am not afraid. Cheryl T's signature helped me with this the most I love her too(sorry not sexually though). Her signature says Closets are for clothes. Not people and Natalie said "We do exist". I love them all they are all beautiful ladies. And everyone knows what I mean. Lorileah got me to come back as I wasn't going to once. Marleena is so right to the point also. Getting over fears, I'll write a book. What is fear of flying about? lol Anyway enough.
Tess
Granted, initially going out dressed CAN create a lot of fear in the dresser. For the many number of reasons that have already listed above. But, ultimately, u need to ENJOY being out in public dressed. Which u seem to be able to do. And, that's wonderful for all of u that can do that!
But, I CAN'T! For a number of reasons of which FEAR isn't one. I have NO freedom. Because I have to dress to blend. I don't like the way I look. I'm homely. I don't know who that is in my mirror, but it's definitely NOT Sherry! I know I'll never pass, (fool anyone). And, I don't like the idea of fooling folks anyway! All I feel when I'm out is stressed and embarrassed! NOT wonderful and NOT happy!

Compare THAT to how I feel dressing at home: Completely Free! Inspired! Sexy! Excited! Bubbly! Satisfied! Accomplished! Very HAPPY! And finally, BEAUTIFUL! I will NEVER feel any of those things going out dressed in vanilla public. Now knowing that, do u STILL think I should go out?

[ConnieD]

Things are different now. In years past you couldn't be out. If you did, there wouldn't be a job, let alone a career. Family did not understand or accept. Wives certainly didn't embrace this and would become vindictive and very public. Physical harm was a very real possibility outside of the closet. I remember the condemnation preached from a pulpit and the following disapproval of the entire church I thought I knew and loved when the story of Christine Jorgenson went public. I wonder how many of us "girls" were sitting there during the service and no one ever knew. I was terrified that at any moment the preacher would point at me and call my name. My parents, who knew about me, sat there glaring at me and didn't speak to me for two days. I remember hearing the death threats made by men I worked with about Miss Jorgenson. I remember how the women I knew turned into real nasty "bitches" talking about "Miss" Jorgenson. Arrest was also very probable and if you didn't do anything, they would find some reason even something so mundane as disturbing the peace, public indecency, morals violation, littering, etc. and you would go to jail; into the general open jail population (not segregated), and they would leave you in your dress! We CDs were every bit discriminated against as much as the minorities were in the past. I know, I lived through these times and there was a very good reason you stayed in the closet....it was safe and you had a life. It had nothing to do with embarassment it was just a different world. Now I have 6+ decades of life behind me and if I came out it would hurt many hundreds of people. I love my femme side and embrace it wholly, but I will take it to my grave too as I can't hurt people that much. You younger "girls" have a much brighter future and many opportunities and options that weren't around years ago. We paved the way for you, sometimes with tears, sometimes with blood but always with courage, pride and we did it all in a pair of heels! Go change the world ladies and I will look down from heaven one day, powder my nose, fix my hair, and smile knowing you carried on for us all.
Connie

[Kimberlyfaye]

Aw Connie, that really touched me. I'm so much younger than you but I still feel like I cant go out there for fear of being victimised. I really do hope one day we can stamp out the prejudice and discrimination, whether we do it in heels or not ;-p

[Noemi]

Jess,

Yes you are bound to elicit deep feelings posting topic like being in the closet.
Confronting the closet is a worthy exercise so I thank you.
The closet holds us, well I will say me, back in my life. Emotionally I feel less than because of my gender issues, me feeling less than is silly because I am wildly talented. Almost peerless in my profession, but still I feel less than. Plus my family will disapprove.
I do hope to come out at some point in the near future. If I change my plan, if I think about this perhaps I can reach an answer that will enable me to move forward.

Thanks again♥♥

[ConnieD]

Mikaylafaye-
We just have to keep trying, the world changes, it's just aggrevatingly slow sometimes. Be very careful and always have a plan if things go bad. I do go out occasionaly but it's meticulously planned and I go with someone usually a GG I trust. It's much better that way and you draw less attention. Carry on girls there are a lot of us behind you.

Forever in heels,
Connie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The reason Jess its a bit more than just stirring the pot, is the way you asked an interesting question..

You said..
"What is it that YOU think that makes your situation so very different than mine? (and others like me)"
This question stood out to me ..other than the simple answer, which is EVERYTHING, it has a self congratulation built in to it that is impossible to miss..

It seems a valid, supportive and friendly question until you insert yourself into it..

My question is simply..

For those of you in the closet, unwilling to go out...if that is one of your goals, what are things that can do to get there?

[Badtranny]

They would be right in my opinion we are less of a man when we dress as women for whatever reason we dress.

Well this is as good a place as any to jump in. I was going to stay out of this one because it's clearly a CD issue, but the above quoted comment sparked an interest.

I'm one of those that doesn't think the average CD has any reason to come "out" at all. Let's face it, many CD's are doing it for a sexual thrill so coming out is tantamount to announcing how you get your jollies. Frankly, somebody's masturbation ritual is none of my business and I don't want to live in a world where people aren't allowed that most basic sense of privacy. HOWEVER, there is a distinct difference between coming out publicly and coming out to yourself. I say stuff like this alot and I realize it might sound like new age silliness to some but I want to make clear the difference in being closeted and simply being private.

The above quote illustrates something that I believe to be endemic among CD's. They believe they are indeed LESS than a man, that who they are is shameful at best and perverted at worst. They are ashamed of who they are and what they are compelled to do. The whole idea of coming out is as laughable as it is terrifying. Like they would actually admit their shameful deeds to real people. People they know would be horrified at the deep dark secret, the hoax of a relationship with someone they thought they knew, and people they don't know would surely be disgusted at the very site of "it", the grotesque amalgam of a man and a woman. Even those that venture out would only do so as long as they feel confident that their identity is safely hidden under the wig and makeup.

What concerns me is not the prospect that CD's will not come out publicly, but that good people are living tortured lives because they just can't come to grips with who they are. This self hate is far more dangerous to themselves AND the community than being closeted could ever be. I don't want these people to come "out" physically, I want them to come out of their own prison. To come out of that place that contains the guilt for doing nothing but wearing clothes, or for fantasizing. There are many things about one's sexuality that are worth keeping private, or among like minded friends, but sexuality should never be considered shameful. The fact is as long as there is shame, then coming out to ANYONE is rendered impossible. Your own shame and distaste will actually influence your presentation of the material. People will sense your shame and try to "help" you instead of support you. On the other hand, people will sense your pride and joy and they will accept if not support. Everybody loves a good time and they love spending time with happy and contented people. After all, we invented the word eccentric for the sole purpose of describing crazy people that we like.

No, coming out is not for the timid. It is reserved for those who have truly come to terms with who they are and have learned to find happiness in it. I think it's perfectly reasonable for the average CD to remain closeted, my only wish is they are able to come to a spiritual place where they can freely make that choice, rather than let fear and shame decide for them.

[Foxglove]

Excellent post, Melissa! It shows a lot of understanding. Lots of us know a lot about shame. We need to deal with that before we're ready to deal with the public. And I know what you mean by "coming out to yourself". That's something I couldn't do for a long time.

Well done!

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Kaz]

Melissa,

I have always enjoyed your posts and the way you think and I know we have had our run-ins previously (you won't remember), but we are on the same page... maybe with slightly different fonts...?

My take on a lot of this is that when someone has taken the transition/TS thing on board and has lived it, they believe that if they can do it everyone else can. And then if someone doesn't it is because they lack something... call it courage, willpower, motivation, whatever... life is more complex and when others are involved the decisions more complicated...

I don't buy this one size fits all mentality that sits well those who feel that they pioneered their way. I applaud all of you who have taken a stance and done what you have done 'for the cause'.. th troiuble is that you didn't do it for any 'cause'; you did it for your own needs and they sat within your own personal context. Not everyone's contexts are the same and I just think that people should respect this.

I am NEVER going to tell anyone how they should live their lives... history is full of these people and the damage they have inflicted.

I am who I am in my own context... I do not sit in a box categorised by someone who feels the right to preach to others... and Melissa... I am not saying this is you, because I know you better and love you to bits! But rhetoric in a text-based context does lack the 'human' factor - 'body language'!

[AllieSF]

Great post Melissa. I see 3 types of coming out scenarios. One is as Melissa said, coming out to yourself and just accepting what you are doing and who you are and not suffering from it, but rather trying to figure out how to incorporate that part of you into your more or less everyday life. Everyone should strive for this goal as it will make a lot of lives happier and easier to deal with for the individual and for those around them. The second coming out is more of a getting out of the house into the real world. That takes self confidence and some courage, dressing skills optional. This one is not for everyone since there are so many valid reasons for one to stay within the confines of their walled safe zone. That life can be very fulfilling and satisfying, and there should be no "You just have to go out" pressure from anyone, unless a person asks for help in building up the courage and self confidence needed to step out the door. The last coming out is the revealing to others, family, friends, work companions and acquaintances of this special life and feelings that we have. This is a very tricky and potentially very risky step for many people. This, like stepping out of the house, is the decision of each individual and should not be subject to the peer pressure from others who have taken this step.

I personally have been out to myself and out of the house since the very beginning about 5 years ago and am loving every minute of it. I am not out to friends, family nor acquaintances because as of this moment there is no justifiable reason or need to know. There would be more negative results than positive ones for me, so I am happy to live with those minor inconveniences for now. What happens in the future really depends on how I feel about it then, whether I eventually get caught and where this late in life journey may take me.

To reinforce the point that I think Jess is trying to make, if you want to go out in any on the three descriptions above, please do everything you can do to "Just Do It"! The experience can be well worth it.

For those of us who have been around this site for awhile, this topic, just like the famous pantie threads continue to pop up on a regular basis with all the same answers, no matter how the questions may be posed. Jess, you yourself have two other threads that address this topic from different directions. The first one addressed the "BS" reasons why people do not go out. I try to put my two cents in when I can, which really boil down to help those that want to go out and try not to pressure those who have not yet reached that decision point for whatever reason.

[Badtranny]

Excellent post, Melissa! It shows a lot of understanding. Lots of us know a lot about shame. We need to deal with that before we're ready to deal with the public. And I know what you mean by "coming out to yourself". That's something I couldn't do for a long time.

I only understand because I lived it myself for too many years. My own shame about my sexuality not only kept me from being happy, but also my first wife who wasted her 20's with a closet queen and never understood why our relationship lacked passion. She finally left me for another man and I was still not brave enough to face my truth even though I KNEW who I was. My cowardice is unforgivable. I know about fear and in fact moved four hours north to the Bay Area for the sole purpose of starting a new life. I wasn't strong enough to do what I had to do in that little redneck town, even though they all know now. I don't have to live there anymore. Finally accepting that I was gay opened the door to real personal growth and I finally was able to see (after a couple of years) that being gay was NOT my problem, I was in fact TS and the feelings I spent a lifetime ignoring, were going to be acknowledged one way or another.

The lesson I learned is; Self acceptance is not optional. With acceptance comes pride, and with pride comes confidence, and with confidence comes power. Fear and shame are an unholy alliance and together they will beget weakness, and it is that weakness that brings hate from everyone including yourself.

[docrobbysherry]

Well this is as good a place as any to jump in. I was going to stay out of this one because it's clearly a CD issue, but the above quoted comment sparked an interest.

I'm one of those that doesn't think the average CD has any reason to come "out" at all. Let's face it, many CD's are doing it for a sexual thrill so coming out is tantamount to announcing how you get your jollies. Frankly, somebody's masturbation ritual is none of my business and I don't want to live in a world where people aren't allowed that most basic sense of privacy. HOWEVER, there is a distinct difference between coming out publicly and coming out to yourself. I say stuff like this alot and I realize it might sound like new age silliness to some but I want to make clear the difference in being closeted and simply being private.

The above quote illustrates something that I believe to be endemic among CD's. They believe they are indeed LESS than a man, that who they are is shameful at best and perverted at worst. They are ashamed of who they are and what they are compelled to do. The whole idea of coming out is as laughable as it is terrifying. Like they would actually admit their shameful deeds to real people. People they know would be horrified at the deep dark secret, the hoax of a relationship with someone they thought they knew, and people they don't know would surely be disgusted at the very site of "it", the grotesque amalgam of a man and a woman. Even those that venture out would only do so as long as they feel confident that their identity is safely hidden under the wig and makeup.

What concerns me is not the prospect that CD's will not come out publicly, but that good people are living tortured lives because they just can't come to grips with who they are. This self hate is far more dangerous to themselves AND the community than being closeted could ever be. I don't want these people to come "out" physically, I want them to come out of their own prison. To come out of that place that contains the guilt for doing nothing but wearing clothes, or for fantasizing. There are many things about one's sexuality that are worth keeping private, or among like minded friends, but sexuality should never be considered shameful. The fact is as long as there is shame, then coming out to ANYONE is rendered impossible. Your own shame and distaste will actually influence your presentation of the material. People will sense your shame and try to "help" you instead of support you. On the other hand, people will sense your pride and joy and they will accept if not support. Everybody loves a good time and they love spending time with happy and contented people. After all, we invented the word eccentric for the sole purpose of describing crazy people that we like.

No, coming out is not for the timid. It is reserved for those who have truly come to terms with who they are and have learned to find happiness in it. I think it's perfectly reasonable for the average CD to remain closeted, my only wish is they are able to come to a spiritual place where they can freely make that choice, rather than let fear and shame decide for them.
While the tread is about "Going out" and not "Coming out", Melissa, you've nailed ME with your post! :straightface:

The thing I fear most about my dressing, is that I'll NEVER accept it! Much less expect family and friends to! I fear they would NOT! Especially if told the entire, dirty story!:eek:

Strangers? Who cares! I don't fear them! If they think I'm a perv, well, so what? Maybe they're rite!?:sad:

[busker]

Well this is as good a place as any to jump in. I was going to stay out of this one because it's clearly a CD issue, but the above quoted comment sparked an interest.

I'm one of those that doesn't think the average CD has any reason to come "out" at all. Let's face it, many CD's are doing it for a sexual thrill so coming out is tantamount to announcing how you get your jollies. Frankly, somebody's masturbation ritual is none of my business and I don't want to live in a world where people aren't allowed that most basic sense of privacy. HOWEVER, there is a distinct difference between coming out publicly and coming out to yourself. I say stuff like this alot and I realize it might sound like new age silliness to some but I want to make clear the difference in being closeted and simply being private.

The above quote illustrates something that I believe to be endemic among CD's. They believe they are indeed LESS than a man, that who they are is shameful at best and perverted at worst. They are ashamed of who they are and what they are compelled to do. The whole idea of coming out is as laughable as it is terrifying. Like they would actually admit their shameful deeds to real people. People they know would be horrified at the deep dark secret, the hoax of a relationship with someone they thought they knew, and people they don't know would surely be disgusted at the very site of "it", the grotesque amalgam of a man and a woman. Even those that venture out would only do so as long as they feel confident that their identity is safely hidden under the wig and makeup.

What concerns me is not the prospect that CD's will not come out publicly, but that good people are living tortured lives because they just can't come to grips with who they are. This self hate is far more dangerous to themselves AND the community than being closeted could ever be. I don't want these people to come "out" physically, I want them to come out of their own prison. To come out of that place that contains the guilt for doing nothing but wearing clothes, or for fantasizing. There are many things about one's sexuality that are worth keeping private, or among like minded friends, but sexuality should never be considered shameful. The fact is as long as there is shame, then coming out to ANYONE is rendered impossible. Your own shame and distaste will actually influence your presentation of the material. People will sense your shame and try to "help" you instead of support you. On the other hand, people will sense your pride and joy and they will accept if not support. Everybody loves a good time and they love spending time with happy and contented people. After all, we invented the word eccentric for the sole purpose of describing crazy people that we like.

No, coming out is not for the timid. It is reserved for those who have truly come to terms with who they are and have learned to find happiness in it. I think it's perfectly reasonable for the average CD to remain closeted, my only wish is they are able to come to a spiritual place where they can freely make that choice, rather than let fear and shame decide for them.

Melissa,
This is what I have been thinking about recently after Jess posted her closet topic. the closet for me is simply dressing in the privacy of my own home, I accept myself, and have no need to wander out in public totally en femme. The clothing simply adds to what I feel inside, but I still feel the same even if I couldn't dress, which I think is what a lot of people here miss as an important point. A garter belt doesn't make anyone feminine.
As the Brits say -FULL MARKS--.

[Jacqueline Winona]

Melissa, great post, eally well thought out. I don't agree wit hit all, though. I just don't have any shame about this part of my life- it is me, it took a long long time for me just tbut so what is how I look at it now. But it is [I]my[I] life, and I choose to share it with only those whom I want to know. My local CD group here, a very good friend on this board, my wife (and anyone she has told, but I'll live with that), are really the only people I care to tell about this. I totally agree with what you initially said that there is no point for a CD to tell most people, even though this is more than a sexual thing for me. So, I guess in a long, round about way, I'm saying i agree with you but for different reasons. :)

[Contessa]

Sherry I am replying to only you. I only want you to think about your fears if you have them. You are always a crossdresser no matter what. Even in drab you are Sherry, but you're hiding behind a mask. I don't see you as homely, remember what I said " Every female is beautiful but not all of them are pretty. Sure you know what you look like but I don't. Find the time to do the makeup and practice will make you better at it. When you feel good about it then go out. The makeup will make you look more feminine, not completely feminine. I don't look feminine but I feel it I walk like it. I have a femme watch,and bracelets, rings and I can smile a lot. Talking I do have a feminine voice but I just whisper. Always smile that is what most GG's do when they notice me. A smile not a grin. You may just need to change your dress for going out and dress younger when at home. My male self is almost 60 but I(Contessa) is 46. So I try to dress that way. Please think about what I am saying then make a change. If you want to go out then what you have been doing isn't working and you will have to change something to make that happen. Be happy and feel sexy anywhere even in Mickey D's.

Love ya still(just not sexually)
Tess

[ReineD]

Well, if we're taking votes on the posts that best encapsulate the truth, my vote is with both Melissa and Allie:



What concerns me is not the prospect that CD's will not come out publicly, but that good people are living tortured lives because they just can't come to grips with who they are.


I see 3 types of coming out scenarios. One is as Melissa said, coming out to yourself and just accepting what you are doing and who you are and not suffering from it, but rather trying to figure out how to incorporate that part of you into your more or less everyday life. Everyone should strive for this goal as it will make a lot of lives happier and easier to deal with for the individual and for those around them. The second coming out is more of a getting out of the house into the real world. That takes self confidence and some courage, dressing skills optional. This one is not for everyone since there are so many valid reasons for one to stay within the confines of their walled safe zone. That life can be very fulfilling and satisfying, and there should be no "You just have to go out" pressure from anyone, unless a person asks for help in building up the courage and self confidence needed to step out the door. The last coming out is the revealing to others, family, friends, work companions and acquaintances of this special life and feelings that we have. This is a very tricky and potentially very risky step for many people. This, like stepping out of the house, is the decision of each individual and should not be subject to the peer pressure from others who have taken this step.

Melissa speaks of a CDer who is not happy with her level of outedness and I agree the sooner such a CDer is true to who she is, the better.

Allie agrees, but she also mentions individuals who are true to who they are even when their outedness needs are not as great or as strong as people who do seek either part or full-time public interaction with others.

It can't be said enough: not everyone here has the same needs. It is true some closeted people are in denial or they are fearful (and fundamentally I think such people know it), but others simply are not and these people should not be made to feel as if they are deficient somehow for not having the same needs as others.

[larry]

Well--TaTaTA --Aren't you the high and mighty. Excuuuse me if I am not so lucky..

[Marleena]

Personally, I think it depends on how much you are willing to risk.

Yes it is a risk coming out, some people don't need or want to as we've seen here. From what I've seen Jess is an exception as she says she has had no issues coming out to anybody.

Most people risk alienation and job, marriage, loved ones, etc. as an act of "coming out". However.... I highly recommend that all MTF's come out to themselves and then decide what is best for them.

[Julogden]

Being bluntly honest, your posting smacks somewhat of someone who is feeling just a bit superior just because they're out (unfortunately, a not-uncommon attitude among those who are out). Please don't make the mistake of thinking that just because something works for you that it will work for everyone.

No two people have the exact same situation and no two people have the same comfort level or need to go out in public. If you've found a way to live that's working for you, that's great, I'm happy for you, but don't let your personal situation make you think that everyone wants or needs to do what you're doing. Also, keep in mind that some who do want or need that can have very valid reasons that prevent them from being more out. Postings like yours, while intended to be encouraging (I'm assuming) can also be distressing or frustrating to those who would like to do what you're doing but can't due to problems with an unaccepting spouse or other familial concerns.

And some people are quite comfortable in the closet, and that's a valid choice as long as they're truly happy that way. :)

Carol

[sometimes_miss]

Not going to 'beat you up'. What's different is that we are different people, and our relatives and friends are different people. Some are ok with crossdressers/TG folk, others aren't. It's as simple as that. Neither my mom or my sister are even remotely ok with it. I've touched on the subject with some friends and got a very cold response. And, I'm not willing to become the target for anyone who wants to show the world that he's 'tougher than the sissy', and decides to use me as the example. I have no desire to wind up fighting my way through life just because someone else thinks it might be a good idea to show that we are just as tough as any other man.
You live your life, and I'll live mine.

[docrobbysherry]

Sherry I am replying to only you. I only want you to think about your fears if you have them. You are always a crossdresser no matter what. Even in drab you are Sherry, but you're hiding behind a mask. I don't see you as homely, remember what I said " Every female is beautiful but not all of them are pretty. Sure you know what you look like but I don't. Find the time to do the makeup and practice will make you better at it. When you feel good about it then go out. The makeup will make you look more feminine, not completely feminine. I don't look feminine but I feel it I walk like it. I have a femme watch,and bracelets, rings and I can smile a lot. Talking I do have a feminine voice but I just whisper. Always smile that is what most GG's do when they notice me. A smile not a grin. You may just need to change your dress for going out and dress younger when at home. My male self is almost 60 but I(Contessa) is 46. So I try to dress that way. Please think about what I am saying then make a change. If you want to go out then what you have been doing isn't working and you will have to change something to make that happen. Be happy and feel sexy anywhere even in Mickey D's.

Love ya still(just not sexually)
Tess
Tess, I meant what I said. That I'm GLAD that u enjoy going out dressed. I can tell u enjoy expressing your fem self out there! But, I'm NOT u!

I'm most certainly NOT Sherry in drab! Or, dressed to blend so I can out among the Muggles, either! To put it in proper prospective for u, Jess, or ANY OTHER CD that goes out dressed. Try going out in vanilla public dressed. But, LEAVE OFF YOUR WIGS AND MAKEUP AND FORMS! See how u like that!? Well, that's how I ALWAYS FEEL when I'm out dressed to blend!

[JessHaust]

Tess, I meant what I said. That I'm GLAD that u enjoy going out dressed. I can tell u enjoy expressing your fem self out there! But, I'm NOT u!

I'm most certainly NOT Sherry in drab! Or, dressed to blend so I can out among the Muggles, either! To put it in proper prospective for u, Jess, or ANY OTHER CD that goes out dressed. Try going out in vanilla public dressed. But, LEAVE OFF YOUR WIGS AND MAKEUP AND FORMS! See how u like that!? Well, that's how I ALWAYS FEEL when I'm out dressed to blend!

Thats a little like asking us to go out en drab with a shirt and no pants, just underwear and socks! I don't see how it is relevant.

[Contessa]

Ok Sherry

I believe you you've convinced me. No hard feelings. Like I said still love ya.

Tess

[Foxglove]

I'm most certainly NOT Sherry in drab! Or, dressed to blend so I can out among the Muggles, either! To put it in proper prospective for u, Jess, or ANY OTHER CD that goes out dressed. Try going out in vanilla public dressed. But, LEAVE OFF YOUR WIGS AND MAKEUP AND FORMS! See how u like that!? Well, that's how I ALWAYS FEEL when I'm out dressed to blend!


Thats a little like asking us to go out en drab with a shirt and no pants, just underwear and socks! I don't see how it is relevant.

Yes, that's OK, Jess. Go out in drab without a shirt or pants. Or go out dressed without your wig, make-up or forms. Either way, you'll probably feel a bit conspicuous and uncomfortable. That's the point Sherry was making, and that's the relevance.

[JessHaust]

OK, well, I didn't get beatup too badly on this one!
I did get called Chickenshit, but that's OK, what's one girls opinion out of almost 100?
So let's wrap this one up and move on.

Thanks for all the answers, it shows me that there are some very legitimate concerns.
Here's what I got from this:

If your wife has expressed her wishes for you not to dress, or dress around her, I certainly would comply. I love my wife and would never do anything to jeopardize our relationship. Anita, we have a similar relationship with our wives.

There are indeed places in this world where attitudes have not yet progressed to the point of accepting us. Canada seem to be one, although the few times I have been there in drab everyone was very friendly, so they are good people, just maybe not CD aware enough yet. Ireland, Annabelle, we have had this conversation before and I'm sorry to drag it up again. Yes, I would be reluctant to dress in Ireland anywhere except maybe Dublin. We had a girl here post that there was a CD friendly Club there somewhere, but I've been to the towns and villages of central Ireland, and even though they are also very kind people, probably not if I had on a dress.

Many of you are just private people and I can respect that, I bet Cross dressing is not the only thing you are private about. I have friends that I drive crazy simply because I talk to everyone, stranger or not, and they simply can't stand it. It's a personality thing and I understand.

Jobs! Yes this is a real tough one. There are very few job situations that could handle cross dressing. Theater and the arts are one, but my list gets short after that. So until you become independantly wealthy, this is as good an excuse as the come.
Me, I'm self employed and work from home. Do my customers know? No, but most would not care as long as I get their computer working!

For those who say they simply don't want to leave the house, OK, that's certainly your choice. I question your honesty with yourself, but can't argue with the logic. If you really have never had any desire to go out into the real world and see what it's like to express your true self, then you are good, no argument from me. It's always most important to do what you feel and not what others think or say.

So for the rest of the answers, OK yes maybe your family and friends will think you are a freak, or pervert as one posted said. But I think you give them too little credit. No I don't know them and Yes there will certainly be some who disapprove, but I just want you to think about the ones will, and some will, most likely far more than you are willing to admit.

So what is my point of stirring up the pot? Is it because I feel superior as some have suggested? No girls, I'm not superior than anyone here, I'm just like you all. I do feel lucky though.

I think that that some of you have read between the lines, the girl who got it the closest was ConnieD, she has seen the change of society and tells us about it. She knows that as long as we stay hidden from the public eye, we will never get the respect that we desire. The more of us who got out there, hold out pretty heads up high and show the world that we are real, normal, self confident and harmless people, the more society will accept us.

Thanks for all the answers

[busker]

OK, well, I didn't get beatup too badly on this one!
I did get called Chickenshit, but that's OK, what's one girls opinion out of almost 100?
So let's wrap this one up and move on.

Thanks for all the answers, it shows me that there are some very legitimate concerns.
Here's what I got from this:

If your wife has expressed her wishes for you not to dress, or dress around her, I certainly would comply. I love my wife and would never do anything to jeopardize our relationship. Anita, we have a similar relationship with our wives.

There are indeed places in this world where attitudes have not yet progressed to the point of accepting us. Canada seem to be one, although the few times I have been there in drab everyone was very friendly, so they are good people, just maybe not CD aware enough yet. Ireland, Annabelle, we have had this conversation before and I'm sorry to drag it up again. Yes, I would be reluctant to dress in Ireland anywhere except maybe Dublin. We had a girl here post that there was a CD friendly Club there somewhere, but I've been to the towns and villages of central Ireland, and even though they are also very kind people, probably not if I had on a dress.

Many of you are just private people and I can respect that, I bet Cross dressing is not the only thing you are private about. I have friends that I drive crazy simply because I talk to everyone, stranger or not, and they simply can't stand it. It's a personality thing and I understand.

Jobs! Yes this is a real tough one. There are very few job situations that could handle cross dressing. Theater and the arts are one, but my list gets short after that. So until you become independantly wealthy, this is as good an excuse as the come.
Me, I'm self employed and work from home. Do my customers know? No, but most would not care as long as I get their computer working!

For those who say they simply don't want to leave the house, OK, that's certainly your choice. I question your honesty with yourself, but can't argue with the logic. If you really have never had any desire to go out into the real world and see what it's like to express your true self, then you are good, no argument from me. It's always most important to do what you feel and not what others think or say.

So for the rest of the answers, OK yes maybe your family and friends will think you are a freak, or pervert as one posted said. But I think you give them too little credit. No I don't know them and Yes there will certainly be some who disapprove, but I just want you to think about the ones will, and some will, most likely far more than you are willing to admit.

So what is my point of stirring up the pot? Is it because I feel superior as some have suggested? No girls, I'm not superior than anyone here, I'm just like you all. I do feel lucky though.

I think that that some of you have read between the lines, the girl who got it the closest was ConnieD, she has seen the change of society and tells us about it. She knows that as long as we stay hidden from the public eye, we will never get the respect that we desire. The more of us who got out there, hold out pretty heads up high and show the world that we are real, normal, self confident and harmless people, the more society will accept us.

Thanks for all the answers

Jess, what's that old saying; "if wishes were wings, pigs could fly" or some such. To me, it is just madness to think that crossdressing will be an acceptable public activity. You are obviously intelligent but sometimes I think that statements such as you ahve made come from somewhere else other than intelligent thought.--That is not a bash, by the way. It is your HOPEFULLNESS that I find faulty, in the same way that you find some people's reasons faulty. There is simply a lack of acceptance there--and I mean acceptance that the general public, despite all the stuff we read on the forum, is going to just take us under their wings. We've just had a presidential candidate whose ideas about women belong to the 14th century. we've got another who thinks corporations are people--do corporations crossdress?
We are still dealing with and debating that even though women are free and equal, still do not have control over their lives and reproductive choices. They are in many ways still second class citizens. They are derided by the males who frankly rule the world. How on earth could you possibly believe that the world will somehow embrace crossdressers? For a great proportion of the nation, we are an abomination, doomed to the firey place for all eternity. I wonder sometimes if people are so caught up in the pink fog, that they have lost sight of any reality in their lives? We can't even figure out how and why we got to this place, and many here just use the popeye excuse as something valid to explain who and what they are. Would the general populace take that for a reason to accept us? No, they damned sure would't. Most SOs wouldn't accept it. There's a long way to go before we sleep, and it will be filled with nightmares for many.
This is not, I repeat, NOT , a rant against you, Jess, but a reply using your comment as a springboard.
congratulations on your personal success.

[ReineD]

I did get called Chickenshit, but that's OK, what's one girls opinion out of almost 100?


No. She used the word as a description of her own reasons for not moving forward. Had she said this in reference to you, I would have deleted it since this would have violated our rules.


For those who say they simply don't want to leave the house, OK, that's certainly your choice. I question your honesty with yourself, but can't argue with the logic. If you really have never had any desire to go out into the real world and see what it's like to express your true self, then you are good, no argument from me. It's always most important to do what you feel and not what others think or say. ... as long as we stay hidden from the public eye, we will never get the respect that we desire. The more of us who got out there, hold out pretty heads up high and show the world that we are real, normal, self confident and harmless people, the more society will accept us.

Can't you see that you are practicing your own version of ethnocentricism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocentrism)? Even though you're willing to acknowledge there are others who feel differently than you, you still judge them based on what YOU want for yourself and you fundamentally believe they must want the same things. You doubt they are telling you their truths. Why is it so hard to understand there is a spectrum of gender diversity and individual needs once people weigh their priorities, and that some people within the spectrum are at their end points no matter where those are, while others are, in fact, on their journeys just like you? :)

[JessHaust]

Well, you are combining two different paragraphs. In the first, I'm simple expressing my skeptisim.
The second has nothing to do with my opinion or desires, it's a fact. If women had never stood up for the right to vote, if Rosa Parks had not taken that seat, if the Mattachine Society had not started, then society would still treat women, blacks, and gays with the same disrespect that they always had. Sure there were plenty in each of those groups who did not want the spotlight turns on them, and they did nothing to forward the cause, but they still benefit now from those who did. We should be no different.

[ReineD]

Achieving basic human rights and racial and gender equality are noble pursuits. Likewise, every CDer who wants to interact with others as her femme self and who wants to be publicly respected for who she is, would help advance her cause if she put herself out there as you suggest.

But separate from this is a person's process of identifying who they are and what they want. You are dismissing the people who do not feel constrained, who are satisfied with their gender expression as it is, and who have no interest in presenting as a woman publicly. These are people whose gender identifications, needs, and expressions are different than your own. I get the impression you are telling them they are in denial about what they want, when they've already weighed their priorities and have made their decisions. Your priority is to go out, as is my SO's (we go out together often), and that's great! But not everyone feels the same way and they are not all in denial or fearful.

[sometimes_miss]

We should be no different.
O.K.. I'm a spy. I do all my work 'undercover' and I support my 'sisters' covertly. So there. Stop trying to make people feel bad just because we don't want a target on our backs. Some of us have had enough of that for one life. If you want to live in blissful ignorance about what goes on behind your back, feel free. I wholly support your bravery for being out and taking the heat, whatever that might be. But insisting that others behave the way you want them to simply doesn't fly.

[Jacqueline Winona]

Jess, I have absolutely no problem with your question or this thread- you asked for answers, we gave them, everyone commented on it, and you accepted the answers while debating a few points, all respectfully IMO. These are the threads that make the board an interesting place, and I appreciate your efforts. You could not be more right about the privacy thing- I am very reluctant to share a lot in "real life," about anything. Even online I try to keep a lot of things private (although baring my soul here is easier than anywhere else. :))

[PretzelGirl]

Sorry Jess, but I am late to the game again.

I understand where you are coming from in general. Let me reverse a point for a minute to make another point. One thing I never understood when I first went out, was when members here said they didn't go out because "They lived in the bible belt" or "They lived around hicks" or more generic "Lived in an unaccepting are". Where I live is considered a bastion of conservatism. Yet I get out and I don't run into any issues with acceptance. So my mind kept racing around the thoughts of how anyone could have that perception without trying (and I am limiting this to those that said it was their only reason for not going out)?

But the key point is that each person's feelings are a culmination of their experiences and perceptions. They perceive my area to be unaccepting and they may perceive their area to be the same. We have to all live with our perceptions and we sure want to err on the side of safety if we have any concerns. I may not agree with someone's outlook on their location, but I strongly support their need to live within their outlooks and comfort levels. What we do can have negative side effects, so given that, we shouldn't push past any internal alarms we have going off.

So yes, while I don't understand why some people think an area is unaccepting and they don't understand why I can't see why it is unaccepting, it is okay to have different views as long as we support that it is why that person does what they do.

[Alice Torn]

I have been out on very rare occasions. At my size, i am stared at, and read easily. I did find it very adventurous and exciting, though. But, i was also super nervous, anxious, scared, paranoid. I am an emotional bi polar super sensitive fool, the way i am in drab, but, in a dress, in public, it is on steroids! Sooner or later, , out in public, a very uncomfortable incident WILL occur. My second time out, a COP pulled me over! Near heart attack! I have no problem with all who go out regularly, if you can pull it off. At my height (six foot six), I go out very seldom, and plan very carefully. In this small town area, if neighbors, or others found out, it could get ugly! I sure have no problem with those who stay in, or those who go out. Live and let live!

[ReluctantDebutant]

What a great question. So great that it pulled me out of lurking to make a post.

As for me I stay in the closet becuase I don't see anything gained by coming out to friends or family. I may like to wear women's clothes I don't hate male clothes. When I am at work or spending time with friends and family I have never thought to myself "I really wish i was wearing that LBD that's at home". I simply don't feel the need to dress in front of them, it can always seem to wait until I get home. Ihave thought about telling them but even when I imagine the 100% supportive scenario I don't see myself dressing more or going out dressed with them. I guess because every time I do dress it never feels like who I am but just something I do. So I would gain nothing but chances are more likely that I would lose something.

[kelsey52]

I find no reason to come out to family, I dress in home or will go out underdressed and never have anything on with family around. For me comming out would just cause many many problems. Now if I was really having problems with being in boy mode most of the time I think I would come out if they dont like it fine move on and find acceptance some where else and hope someday the family will take me back.

[zorianacd]

I completely understand the reluctance to make dressing public especially where you live. There are so many factors at play. For me, I won't come out where I live and will travel to other places to spend time en femme. To each his or her own. I still shop in drab with abandon.

[STACY B]

Sure !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now yall tell me there was a CLOSET ? Yea thanx alot .

[ME2.0]

I guess, to turn the question around, why do all out of the closet crossdressers think that the closetted ones have to come out or they're not "progressing". I am a firmly in the closet crossdresser. It wouldn't validate me to go out in public like this. It doesn't invalidate me either. I dress because it makes me happy. I don't do it for any kind of attention from the general public. I don't do it to seek acceptance from any group. I don't do it to shock others. I don't do it because I don't feel "pretty inside". I do it because it makes ME happy. I don't feel that I must progress to somewhere else. I'm comfortable with where I am.

If you enjoy the ferris wheel at the local fair, do you feel the need to move up to the roller-coasters at Disney World, and then progress to cliff diving, and then progress to sky-diving? Because if you stay in one place it isn't a good thing?

There's so much peer pressure on this site to come out of the closet--I thought I left all of that nonsense behind in high-school. If I want to come out of the closet it will be because I feel that I want to, not because someone told me that I'm not moving forward.

Just my opinions

Staci

[danielletorresani]

I was in the closet and very happy to be there. My wife didn't even know....until I got outted a few weeks ago. She found some videos I made on my computer. That was not a good day....

I'm thankful she's not leaving me as I thought she would if she ever found out. She's definitely not accepting, but we agreed to never talk about it again which is just fine with me.

Truly, I wish I could go back in the closet and keep this side of myself my dirty little secret...

[NicoleScott]

. The more of us who got out there, hold out pretty heads up high and show the world that we are real, normal, self confident and harmless people, the more society will accept us.

Jess, your early post in this thread gave me the idea that you just wanted others' views on why they stay in the closet. As the thread wore on, I started to sense a coming-out agenda. After reading the above quote, how could I think otherwise?

[Brittany CD]

So my question is this: What is it that YOU think that makes your situation so very different than mine? (and others like me)

I'm way too scared to come out. I have friends who don't have a problem with crossdressers, but they were my high school friends and we live away from each other since we've all moved away for school