Wife's ultimatum [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

KarenCDFL

04-23-2012, 02:23 PM

I really feel for the people here who have spouses/SO's/GF/BF etc. who cannot or won't at least give a little bit in the dressing direction.

The few people who know about me often tell me how lucky I am because my wife is 100 percent supportive. I did tell her way before we married so it gave both of us an out.

Posts like this really makes me think if marriage vows are really worth the lips they come out of.

If any of us got sick or got a disfiguring disease, our wives should still want to support us without question. Or would they say oops, diabetes or a heart attack and I am out of here.

So ask this question to ask her, "Would you rather I have Terminal Cancer or wear a Dress. Your Choice. If Cancer is too strong to think about then how about Leprosy? Would that be a deal breaker?

So what is the big deal about letting you have some enjoyment with something that makes all of us in the "Dressing Way" feel so good or at least get the enjoyment out of the deed.

Isn't a spouse supposed to do everything they can to help their partner have a good life? Our wives expect it from all of us. Its OK for us to buy them pretty things and expensive jewelry! But none for ourselves!

And what about that wonderful word LOVE? Is there only love when the wife gets her own way?

Even Barney the Dinosaur sings You love me, I love you and what ever makes us feel good should be OK. That sure sounds simple.

I have read so many posts here about Cross Dressers who have a seemingly perfect marriage except for that UGH dressing thing.

I find all of this completely unfair.

Just so its known, my wife of 17 years and I did go through a lot of therapy before and after we married to get to the point we are now. And we still do. The marriage is not perfect, nor will it ever be but my dressing is not ever part of any of our issues. When things get very stressed on my part she tells me that I am not dressing enough.

I know I am generalizing and rambling here but this should be all simple stuff and not a reason to give an ultimatum and possibly end a marriage.

BTW, I am strictly talking about Cross Dressing not TG issues.

Nigella

04-23-2012, 02:39 PM

Karen, you hit the nail on the head with this
I know I am generalizing and rambling here

Your post above does nothing to help either the OP, or other people in the same type of situation. If you have found an answer to help with this situation, by all means post it, but to berate an SO etc, because they find accepting this lifestyle difficult just drives them further away from a solution. One point to remember is that we generally only get the TGs side of the issue, very rarely do we get to hear the other side.

I also believe that the response given is very much tainted by our own situation, yours is a good one, therefore you cannot understand the non accepting situation. The one thing to remember about what you have posted, just as you have said should the SO not do this that or the other to help the relationship, the same can be said for the TG.

Relationships are like a tango, it takes two to work in harmony to get it right,

Lorileah

04-23-2012, 02:56 PM

Thank you for reminding me just how lucky I have been in life. Maybe I have a different view of marriage but I don't think a "my way or the highway" is what a marriage is about.

I have to agree that you need to back off. Knowing that you will never back off totally your whole life, sometimes it is just easier to retreat and lick your wounds, before you make a big charge.

My feeling is that usually there is a lot more to the story. But the issue of clothing seems pretty petty for an ultimatum. Look around. Is there some reason she suddenly has become so adamant? Are you abusing the privilege? Neglecting something? Pushing too hard? Not to place the whole blame on you, or any of it, but something has here concerned. It usually means, at least in my experience, that the marriage in general has some issues. Maybe it is a transient thing. She may be over stressed and you are a convenient target. But I would be looking deeper into this. Has she given you a reason? Other than she doesn't like it...which in a marriage is not a reason to break up. we all have peeves about our SO's that we don't care for much. Knuckle cracking, toothpaste cap off, doesn't like sushi, underwear on the floor, someone else's underwear on the floor. But when ever the ultimatum is all or nothing it is more than this. Money? Drugs? (I hate to add this) Sex? Not helping around the house? Not showing attention?

Why do I think this is petty? I don't know anyone who would divorce because someone would not wear a dress, or a suit and tie OR would only wear t-shirts and jeans. If this is what the marriage is about, the clothing, well then it isn't really a marriage.

Step back, see if there is a bigger picture. Mostly talk. Talk about anything to start but make it just you two. Then maybe you can get the real reason.

RADER

04-23-2012, 02:59 PM

Yes; As others have stated, You got to take it real slow, And you have to sit down and talk with her.
Maybe set some limits on when and how much you dress, but instill to her it is something that makes you
who you are. And adds a dimension to you that many other men do not have; A Feminine look into your
marriage, and a way to anticipate your needs.
Rader

Dawn cd

04-23-2012, 03:01 PM

Unilateral ultimatums don't really belong in healthy and mutually supportive relationships, but Sierra you created the situation by appointing your wife Supremo. Now it's time for both of you to back out of the corner you've put yourselves in. You both need to stop playing games and face up to real life—for the sake of your daughters if nothing else. You, Sierra, need to stop playing the subordinate and claim your place as an equal in this marriage, and your SO needs to withdraw her ultimatum and work things out in a dialogue. If you can't do it between the two of you, find a therapist who can help you work through it.

Miranda-E

04-23-2012, 03:04 PM

My wife has tried to accept it into our lives, and has even gone out and bought me panties, done my makeup, etc. She cannot get used to it. She has given me an ultimatum. Stop it all or get out.
I am not really certain what to do in this situation. I love my wife and kids, but I don't know if I want to (or can) give up my female self.

Thank you for the help and advice!

Its her right to not accept it, It your right to walk once there is an ultimatum. That's one of the the consequences of an ultimatum

Barbara Ella

04-23-2012, 03:16 PM

Ultimatums seldom work. You made her the dominant one, and she is asserting her position. From experience, willingness can be stretched thin in the beginning, and there will be a backlash as she tries to absorb all that is coming at her but can't quite grasp it and fit it into her expectations. I am there. The advice given here is spot on, sit down and talk. See what bothers her, and attempt to have some boundaries that are acceptable to both. Don't expect to have it all. Do be willing to take some time off to get an equilibrium back. Keep talking.

Barabara

StacyPump

04-23-2012, 03:44 PM

I agree with those who say to talk. But I also agree with those who say to take a cool down period. Don't push the dressing...and don't talk too much about it...just for a little while.

Ultimatums are not good in a marriage, but she does have the right to decide that this is not something she can accept in her marriage. Unfortunately, these boards are filled with stories from crossdressers who tried to give it up for one reason or another, and you also have those daughters to think about...that's why the cool down period is so important.

I think you should find a good couple's therapist, and talk, talk, talk.

DonnaT

04-23-2012, 04:18 PM

As noted by Lorileah, there could be any number of issues that has caused your wife to jump on the CDing as the main cause of the problems she's having.

It could be she's just tired of being the dominant partner.

It could just be the CDing.

Seems she's worked at trying to accept it. A compromise on her part, if you will. You've not said whether there was any compromise on your part, to help her with the acceptance.

However ultimatums, no matter the reason behind it, should not be part of a loving sharing relationship. Try to work something out for y'alls mutual benefit.

Have you ever tried stopping for any length of time before? If so, explain to your wife the results. If not, then tell her you'll try, as long as she doesn't issue any more ultimatums if (when) you fail.

Of course, you'll still need to find out if there's more to it than the CDing. Otherwise she'll just find something else to rant about.

I would also suggest, should you decide to try and quit, that you become more assertive at home and bring yourself to be on equal footing with your wife. She may not like it, but just tell her that it's something you have to do to get your mind off the desire to CD.

The last time my wife gave me such an ultimatum was a little over 6 years ago, after we had been married 30 years, with ups and downs due to my CDing. I told her I wasn't going any where, that she knew good and well that I tried to quit for her benefit, and failed each time. I then told her if she wanted to leave, then go ahead, I wouldn't hold it against her, and I would still love her. We're still married.

Katie01

04-23-2012, 04:23 PM

I think Lorileah is very perceptive. Sounds like other things may be in play here. I also think it says a lot about your wife that she bought clothes and helped with makeup early on. To me that was a very loving thing to do, especially if she had to overcome biases to participate. Good advise to take it slow and think through the consequences together if possible.

Katesback

04-23-2012, 04:57 PM

As was said before it is her right to accept this that or the other thing. She has very clearly stated she will not accept it.

So you make a decision stop or dont or hide it like many do. Problem is she will find out sooner or later and you will resent her all the while. As a matter of fact you will resent her if you choose to stop.

Having a pretty good insight into CDs I will say you will admit to stopping to her and do it behind her back when ya can. That seems to be the modus oparandi for many CDs.

Katie

NicoleScott

04-23-2012, 05:53 PM

Some people have to learn this the hard way: "Never give someone a choice you don't want him/her to take." Is she serious? Can you call her bluff?

- or -

You may be a good candidate for Don't Ask Don't Tell. She knows you dress but doesn't want to see or hear about it.

Maybelle

04-23-2012, 06:52 PM

Maybe cool off and both think about what the other is asking. Then see if there is a mutual compromise that suits you both.

Aloha Jayne

04-23-2012, 07:06 PM

Sierra, I'm in the same situation. Came out to my wife last month after 23 years of marriage. She says she cannot accept any part of it, and wants to know what I will do if she never can. It doesn't look good at this point. I'm giving her as much space as I can in hopes she will relax a little. If she can't, I'm not sure we can resolve this. I would tell you to try to communicate, but your wife may not want to hear anything you have to say. If it comes to that, think about your kids and what's best for them. You can give this up for some time, but it will always be a part of you. I got to the point where I had to be honest, or drink myself to death. Hopefully you two can find an understanding. It might help to find a mediator to talk to.

Gillian Gigs

04-23-2012, 07:40 PM

To hear the word "ultimatum" is enough to send a shiver down my spine. No, and I repeat, no relationship can stand for very long when ultimatums are thrown around. Marriage is and should be about love, respect, and acceptance. Compromise is a word that should be used, but never ultimatum!

sierra_g

04-23-2012, 08:13 PM

It is amazing to hear what many of you have to say. You talk about failed attempts at quitting the lifestyle and one even relates it to cancer. Is this really what you think of it?
Stand tall and be proud women. A bit less on the chromosomal push and we would've been true ladies. I don't know any of you, or your stories, but if you are feeling that much shame, you should definitely go talk to someone if you aren't already.

Now, on to the task at hand...

First off, we don't lie to each other. No lies, no headgames, no matter how bad. If you don't want to know, don't ask.
Second, we are currently seeking a counselor, but on Medicaid, and in strong LDS territory, it is difficult to find a decent one with an open mind. The last one we tried called me a pervert and tried to get me to go to a group meeting for perverts held at the Mormon church. I am a strong Christian, but not LDS.

We talk pretty much every night. I am always hopeful that it will lead to more, but never does. Like I said before, I am kinda metro, so we do mud masks and stuff. Sometimes we will talk till 4 or 5 in the morning about different stuff.

The compromise between us is very simple. If I feel the need to dress like a girl, I can move out and she will post it pubically. I don't need that. She is the only one in the world that knows.

I was into ABDL pretty heavily, she did not enjoy that at all. She finds this not as bad, but still pretty bad. I was CDing during that time too. I've been lightly/rarely CDing for about 5 years consitently, with a few times before randomly (mostly high school age till I was 18).

One of her biggest misconceptions is that all CD's are homosexual. I've tried telling her that most are straight, but no belief. I had some minor gay experiences between 19 and 22. I tried multiple times because I didn't understand my love of women's clothes. I found that I am not gay. My wife is waiting for me to come flying out of the closet.

Her biggest problems with it are the homosexuality misconception, 2 Corrinthians, and as she puts it, her non-attraction to Lesbians or any woman.

I don't know if that helps, but I was trying to answer everyone's questions. I am pretty broke and don't have a couple thousand to drop on a place, plus as I said it before, I love her and my kids.

Thank you all.

Sierra, I'm in the same situation. Came out to my wife last month after 23 years of marriage. She says she cannot accept any part of it, and wants to know what I will do if she never can. It doesn't look good at this point. I'm giving her as much space as I can in hopes she will relax a little. If she can't, I'm not sure we can resolve this. I would tell you to try to communicate, but your wife may not want to hear anything you have to say. If it comes to that, think about your kids and what's best for them. You can give this up for some time, but it will always be a part of you. I got to the point where I had to be honest, or drink myself to death. Hopefully you two can find an understanding. It might help to find a mediator to talk to.

Thank you. Keep me updated on your situation. Good luck to you. It always helps to know we aren't alone in our fight.

MandyGG

04-23-2012, 08:36 PM

Sierra,

You sound like your head is on straight. I am very proud of you!

My husband lived, and CD'ed, in Salt Lake City for 13 years as a single man. So, I know the problems that you are dealing with when it comes to finding good support and help. I can't tell you that you need to give in or get out. That is for you two to decide. But, I can tell you that you need to get her to make an account here, and join us. She will learn so much, and she will have women like me to talk to. I know what she is going through. I never gave Audrey an ultimatum, but came damn close for 2 years. Please invite her to join, and let her learn a bit, and to compare what you want to what others are saying that they want. She may be pleasantly surprised, and then may be willing to work something out.

I hope that everything works out.

busker

04-23-2012, 08:46 PM

Sierra, it is a tough position to be in and depending on how you can put up with not dressing for a while, my thoughts would be focused on your children who , it would seem, are less than 4 years old. If you leave, you leave them in a dire position, children without 2 parents do less well than children with 2 parents. You will be in a bad spot if your divorce because of financial burdens. staying where you are seems to be under duress if I read this correctly " I can move out and she will post it publicly." That is quite an unconscionable threat on her part . Sounds like there may be other issues as well. If she is convinced that you are gay and hiding it, there is little that you can do to change her mind I think. One of the problems for people who are too much controlled by religious notions. And, you admit to us (and to her I suppose) that you actually did try it for a while, so the seed has been planted. If she outs you, you don't have to remain in LDS territory I suppose, but there is the consideration of your children. Not a promising scenario. Best wishes.

suchacutie

04-23-2012, 08:53 PM

Sierra, my wife is also completely heterosexual. I am completely willing to go along with that, and I bet a lot of girls here are in the same situation. My wife gets her husband when she wants him, even if it's only to sit and talk for a while.

I can only suggest that you help your wife to research the details that you have told her, and let her find for herself that your sexual preference is separate from your sexual identity.

The biblical reference has been discussed to death both on this forum and many others. There's plenty of info to explain that the reference should not be taken out of context!

Lastly, unless she owns your house, no one can throw you out. You have rights if it comes to that. I hope it doesn't.

Our best, and our hope that your wife starts believing you about your own choices.

ReineD

04-23-2012, 09:03 PM

She has always known I like her to be the dominant one in our relationship, and I am a gynosupremist.

I had to look it up: Gynosupremacy: female led relationships.

What are you after, specifically? Are you wanting your wife to be the Dominant with you as a subordinate? You may well be subordinate by nature, but you cannot demand that your wife fulfill a role as a dominant if it is not HER nature to dominate. The two of you may well be incompatible. I'm guessing this is what your wife is trying to tell you, and this has nothing to do with the crossdressing.

Or, do you see yourself as the gynosupremacist (the female who leads the relationship), as you said?

I don't know what the dynamics are between you and your wife, but if so far you've had a traditional relationship, then I'm guessing your wife looks to you to lead in some areas, while she leads in others for example childcare. If you see yourself as the gynosupremacist, then you can just carry on leading in the areas you've led already in a traditional way. Then you can simply concentrate on expressing your femininity at a time and pace that is agreeable to both you and your wife.

In other words, expressing femininity does not need to be tied to any concept of Dominant/submissive. This is a fetishistic approach that not all crossdressers engage in.

EDIT
If you need help separating the dominant/submissive mindset from the notion of expressing your inner femininity (which might be more palatable to your wife), you can start another thread asking other CDers to share their experiences. :)

Also, once you do manage to separate the two, you can ask your wife to join the forum so she can learn more about the CDing, what it is and what it isn't. Most CDers are heterosexual. If your wife joins here and makes friends among the community, she'll soon see this for herself, if this is one of her larger concerns.

MandyGG

04-23-2012, 09:06 PM

my thoughts would be focused on your children who , it would seem, are less than 4 years old. If you leave, you leave them in a dire position, children without 2 parents do less well than children with 2 parents.

I disagree to a certain extent on this. Yes, it is best for the children to be with their biological parents. However, they are in their early 30's and the possibility of them remarrying is high. I had an abusive 1st husband, and my 2 kids are much better with their CDing step dad than they ever were with their biological father. I am speaking from a female point of view and from experience. If we, as mothers, feel that the marriage is destined for failure and there is talk of separation we would rather it happen when the children are still young and will not have the memory of the divorce. Then the children go through life used to the fact that their parents aren't together and grow up perfectly fine.

I am not saying that this is what Sierra's wife, or Sierra, is feeling. I am just making a general statement that I have heard MANY women voice this opinion on.

sierra_g

04-23-2012, 09:45 PM

RADER

04-23-2012, 09:58 PM

My first wife divorced me when my two kids where young, 3 and 5.
I had it in the divorce degree that if she blabbed all over town about my dressing,
She would have to support the kids herself. The judge went along with it to a point,
That she was never tell the kids why we divorced. My Former wife was a real busy body,
And a rummer spreader, I did not want my reputation to get trashed over her.
Something to think about if you have to go down that road.
Rader

ReineD

04-23-2012, 10:01 PM

I have invited her to join forums with me on things like this before, and has always told me she doesn't care for one sided arguments and everyone on the forum will be automatically on my side.

Well, that's not true. Please let her know that many of the wives who join here have a hard time with some or all aspects of the CDing. They're here to learn about what it means and how it fits into their relationships. They're not here to be "talked into" accepting anything. It is up to each wife, once she has learned more about this, to decide whether she can live with it or not, or determine what compromises can be made.

We do have a support section for GGs only. Your wife can read more about the FAB forum from our Index page, if she clicks on the "Announcements" link next to the FAB section.

This very thread is in a section that is viewable by the public, so you should just show her my post. If you're reading this, Mrs. Sierra_g, I promise you that no one here will try to convince you of anything. We'll just answer your questions.

:hugs:

busker

04-23-2012, 10:46 PM

I disagree to a certain extent on this. Yes, it is best for the children to be with their biological parents. However, they are in their early 30's and the possibility of them remarrying is high. I had an abusive 1st husband, and my 2 kids are much better with their CDing step dad than they ever were with their biological father. I am speaking from a female point of view and from experience. If we, as mothers, feel that the marriage is destined for failure and there is talk of separation we would rather it happen when the children are still young and will not have the memory of the divorce. Then the children go through life used to the fact that their parents aren't together and grow up perfectly fine.

I am not saying that this is what Sierra's wife, or Sierra, is feeling. I am just making a general statement that I have heard MANY women voice this opinion on.
Mandy, I have absolutely NO experience except what I read about children and the effects of divorce. I'll take your word for what seems to be the solution, and even mentioned again by another poster. The things is, women with children have a MORE difficult time remarrying because they have a ready-made family that puts some men off.

Lorenqt

04-24-2012, 12:03 AM

You have to decide what matters more, your dressing or your family (namely your kids). You might give her some time and see if she'll be willing to back off from her ultimatum.

Jacqueline Winona

04-24-2012, 12:56 AM

I really feel for you on this one, Sierra, you don't need me to tell you this is really tough climbing but if it makes you feel better, please know most of us are squarely in your corner. There are no silver bullet answers that will explain this to her, the best I can do for you is to stress to her that this is part of who you are, you can't just shut it off and promise to never do it again no more than you could promise to never eat the foods you love or watch the tv shows you enjoy again. I know this is so hard with kids and your living with in-laws, but she needs to give on this. Can she live with you not doing it in front of her, her parents, or the kids? That would take up almost every waking moment, which isn't truly fair to you, but it would be a pretty good compromise.

Clueless

04-24-2012, 02:38 AM

I'm not sure from your posts, but did you let her know about your Cding before or after the marriage? If not, that is a big honesty/deception issue, not to be taken lightly. Just because she was accepting or even participating at first, does not erase your lying to her before marriage. She has every right to be very very upset about that. It make take a long time for that to come out. Other Cders would do well to learn that before getting serious with someone. It's only fair.

Did her opposition to your Cding start when you moved into her parents place? If so, that can be a simple & understandable reaction on her part: don't doo doo in your domicile. If I were in your shoes & in that situation, I would not do any Cding or any other "odd" activities & for sure not posses/hide any related items there. To me it would be awkward at best, even if her parents knew about it & approved. It sounds like they would not approve at all. Common courtesy & a healthy survival instinct would make that a no Cding or other alternative activities zone. I'm sure there is enough stress in the household, just with the extra people there. Please don't add to it, work on getting a place for your family.

Has she tried other ways to get you to stop Cding, before the cease & desist order? Is she a good communicator? Are you a good listener? Maybe the real issue is that she (like most females) is attracted to & wants a dominate male. It may have taken her awhile to figure that out for herself. I can understand her fears & insecurities about the closet homosexuality issue. If I were in her shoes, it would be a major trust issue & a very big deal. Were you 100% honest & open about your experiences? When did you tell her? Do you know for sure that you are 100% straight? Are you sure that you don't want to go further than just Cding? I know those are some tough questions, but look at it from her viewpoint.

Deception & lying can cause hidden irreparable damage. Her needs, wants & tolerances can change. IMO, the best you can do now is be 100% honest with yourself & her. You can buy her some books, ask her to talk to professionals & even post on forums. In the end though, she has to decide what she believes about Cding, right or wrong. If she decides it's best for her & her kids to not have Cding in their lives, that's her right. Do what is best for your kids. Put their needs before yours. You may have to make some very tough choices. I'm sorry that you are in a bad position. Good Luck

Brenda79135

04-24-2012, 06:36 AM

I am sorry to read about your situation. Having to live with the in-laws are always a stressful time. The biggest problem with it is that you are always compared to her dad and what he has accomplished. In most cricumstances, once you get married the new relationship is supposed to stand on its own and should not need the help of the in-laws or parents. Yes, GGs may be better at thinking and multitacking, this does not mean they can lead. She maybe afraid of failure having the responsibility put on her. Leading a family is hard enough, but to put in the mixture her parents telling her what to do and how to do it just puts to much stress on her and yourself. The best ultimatum both of you can impose on the family is to get your own place any from the in-laws. This will allow the decisions made for the family to affect only the family and not be questioned by the in-laws. When my wife and I were first married, my mother-in-law was calling all the time giving advice to my wife. Things started to fall apart in our marriage rapidly. We made the decision to move to Germany for my job. With the cost of overseas phone calls at the time. The calling dropped off. This allowed my wife to get her beating and how to live in a relationship without her mother always injecting 'good advice' when not asked for. The farther away from any parents the better. Once this is done both of you will become dependent on each other instead of the parents.

nikkijo

04-24-2012, 07:46 AM

you are at a turning point... either be a family man, or be alone and keep being something in between... BEEN THERE DONE THIS... it doesnt work to be unhappy... so its your choice... figure yourself out and be who you need to be... if you must dress you can kiss your existing life good bye.. because thats where your wife is at... its an ugly process and its horrible to live through... if its CD'ing find a new outlet and raise your family... if you go beyond CD into the realm of TG then you have life altering decisions to make. simple as that... figure yourself out and man up one way or another.... BEEN THERE LOST A BEAUTIFUL WOMAN, and my only real support and ive paid dearly in more ways than one...... so dont go down my path and try to be something your not... either bow out and say ok ill leave, or man up, find a new hobby and raise your family

\
Well, that's not true. Please let her know that many of the wives who join here have a hard time with some or all aspects of the CDing. They're here to learn about what it means and how it fits into their relationships. They're not here to be "talked into" accepting anything. It is up to each wife, once she has learned more about this, to decide whether she can live with it or not, or determine what compromises can be made.

We do have a support section for GGs only. Your wife can read more about the FAB forum from our Index page, if she clicks on the "Announcements" link next to the FAB section.

This very thread is in a section that is viewable by the public, so you should just show her my post. If you're reading this, Mrs. Sierra_g, I promise you that no one here will try to convince you of anything. We'll just answer your questions.

:hugs:

to the MRS... trust me when i say this if your viewing.... you arent the only one to make this statement.. my ex wife made the same statment, i tried to be someone i wasnt and it tore our relationship apart.. so not trying to change your mind, on what you need to have happen to stay happy, but what ever answer your husband gives you, you have to still do your part to support that choice.. if he says he cant stop then follow through and dont hold back and send him packing, it will be better overall in the long run... i fought for two years being something i wasnt and it tore my life apart completely left me with out any support base because i pushed everyone to her side by not leaving when she asked and its taken almost a year just to be able to converse again where as if done right you two can seperate and still remain in contact and raise your family together, just under two roofs,

BLUE ORCHID

04-24-2012, 08:12 AM

H Sierra, It's hard to make a touch down when they move the goal line out in the parking lot.

She may change her mind and she may never change.

My wonderful wife told me a couple years ago that she wishes it would go away
I said the only wayit would go away is if I take it with me when I go.
After fourty eight years of marrage no one is going anywhere.
IT'S just DADT now.

Jessica Keys

04-24-2012, 09:21 AM

First off you need to get a job and if you already have one...get a better one so you/her can move into your own place. Living with your wife's mom...give me a break! You can't afford to live the CD life style....FOR-GET-IT. You better get your sh-t in order first and be a man, and then come back and try it.
I have some other ideas for you....but, I better keep them to myself.

sierra_g

04-24-2012, 10:35 AM

Update:
Last night we fought. It was a very silent hurtful fight. Eventually, I asked her if what she wanted was for me to leave. She said that I ask the same question and always get the same answer. Yes, her answer is always the same, but it is a question. "Do you want to move out?" No results. I pushed harder for the first time. I told her that if it is what she wants, I would go. I wouldn't even try for custody, unless she decided to make our situation public.
After about 5 minutes of silence, something changed in the room. I don't know if it was the reality, or the thought that she wasn't controlling the situation for a while, but something changed. She decided that in the Bible, it says that the only reason for divorce is adultry and she wasn't going to cheat on me so she would try to get used to it, but if I was parading around in front of the kids, she would break that even. I don't think the fight is over, but for now it is. I am not planning to start wearing dresses everyday, but maybe I can finally shave my legs and pits, maybe don a pair of cute jeans. I don't know. Either way, it is a long strange trip.

NicoleScott

04-24-2012, 10:51 AM

What? She's going to stay in the marriage, not at all happy about your crossdressing, but pretty much resigned to it, and your response is to push the femininity envelope farther?

MandyGG

04-24-2012, 11:18 AM

What? She's going to stay in the marriage, not at all happy about your crossdressing, but pretty much resigned to it, and your response is to push the femininity envelope farther?

I have to agree with this. If she is basically telling you that she wants a Don't Ask Don't Tell policy, the why on earth would you jump to shaving your legs and arm pits?!?! The shaving is one HUGE issue with a wife. We complain about it all the time! We don't want the constant reminder that our SO's crossdress, and having prickly legs touch us in bed is just that! It is also summer time, and shorts are a huge part of the male wardrobe right now. You live with her mom, do you want her seeing silky smooth legs? You would be homeless and divorced in seconds.

Think things through. Only dress when the need is too great. Don't take advantage of the fact that she wants her husband, no matter the cost, and is willing to overlook this one aspect. You need to respect that she doesn't like it, and find it in yourself to only stay in her comfort zone.

sierra_g

04-24-2012, 11:18 AM

EllieOPKS

04-24-2012, 11:40 AM

Nigella thanks for the reality check. A complex situation for some is simple to others who are not wearing those moccasins.

My suggestion would be to concede to her demands for now as it will defuse the situation. At a later point in time, kindly asks what made the CD thing such an ultimatum from her. Then listen carefully.

sierra_g

04-24-2012, 11:45 AM

I have to agree with this. If she is basically telling you that she wants a Don't Ask Don't Tell policy, the why on earth would you jump to shaving your legs and arm pits?!?! The shaving is one HUGE issue with a wife. We complain about it all the time! We don't want the constant reminder that our SO's crossdress, and having prickly legs touch us in bed is just that! It is also summer time, and shorts are a huge part of the male wardrobe right now. You live with her mom, do you want her seeing silky smooth legs? You would be homeless and divorced in seconds.

Think things through. Only dress when the need is too great. Don't take advantage of the fact that she wants her husband, no matter the cost, and is willing to overlook this one aspect. You need to respect that she doesn't like it, and find it in yourself to only stay in her comfort zone.

Gotcha, that does make sense. I've been trying to figure out how to start a dialogue with her on this to see what her comfort zone is, but I am afraid it may be too soon. For the next week we have family coming into town, so I won't get to get dressed for a while anyway. Great opportunity to converse.

TxKimberly

04-24-2012, 11:56 AM

I've got to admit that I have no bright ideas, no wondrous suggestions, and no intelligent comments to make. Still, I just want to wish you the both the very best of luck!

KarenCDFL

04-24-2012, 12:19 PM

I have been in a non-accepting situation with my first wife who was also told well before we married and she still made the decision to go ahead with it.

That was until some issues came up which had nothing to do with my dressing but used the subject anyway to hurt me and make my life a literal hell for five years until we divorced.

So I stand by all of my comments and I still believe that most marriages are very one-sided with the wife having the upper hand.

MandyGG

04-24-2012, 12:27 PM

Gotcha, that does make sense. I've been trying to figure out how to start a dialogue with her on this to see what her comfort zone is, but I am afraid it may be too soon. For the next week we have family coming into town, so I won't get to get dressed for a while anyway. Great opportunity to converse.

It is too soon. Enjoy the company of others right now. Be the best husband and father that you can be for a little bit. Show her that you are committed to her and your relationship. Don't worry about dressing right now. This is the time that you need to rebuild the relationship. She will be much more accepting once she feels that you are "choosing her". Once you two are at a complete calm and the fighting has subsided, then you can bring it up to her. Don't tell her what you want at that time...as this is the time to ask her what you can do to make her more accepting. Ask her what her concerns are. Make it clear that you want the marriage, but this is part of who you are and ask her how you can work together. Her concern right now might just be the fact that you live with her mom and once you are back out on your own she may get right back into it. But, living in a stressful situation and then adding this to it is a lot on a wife. Deal with one thing at a time. Get on your feet. Get out of her moms house. Get your marriage in order. Get your life back.....THEN Get yourself some panties. If she has supported it before, then she can do it again. You were lucky in the fact that she has. She didn't leave you the day you told her. There is hope there. You just have to give it time. And DONT shave your legs and pits just yet. That would be silly.

So I stand by all of my comments and I still believe that most marriages are very one-sided with the wife having the upper hand.

Karen, I see where you are coming from and I do sympathize from what happened to you. However, when you break this down in what would be considered a "normal" standpoint, you have to realize that women marry men because they are MEN. There are those that are open minded and those that are closed. This is with anything. I don't think that it is an "upper hand" problem. Most, if not all, of the wives are NOT Transgendered. We do not have the internal feelings that you do. We do not have the ability to feel the urge. We do not know what it is like to feel the need to stuff our pants and present as a man. We tend to look at it like golf, for instance, where it is more like a hobby that can be put away for a while. So, for us to be accepting takes a lot of knowledge, a lot of love, and a lot of understanding. Maybe in your situation, there were much deeper issues and not enough love to survive the marriage.....CD or Not.

sierra_g

04-24-2012, 12:34 PM

I started a dialogue with her, but she has changed her mind. If I do it, she will stay married to me, but she won't sleep in the same bed as me or have any affection to me. That isn't a marriage. I am really getting tired of this.

kimdl93

04-24-2012, 12:46 PM

Sierra, you need to learn some patience. She may have lots of opinions about your dressing and gender identity before its all over. The one thing that is sure to derail your marriage is to push, rush and focus solely on your wants.

Simply Joslyn

04-24-2012, 12:51 PM

Your story saddens me, I wish I knew exactly what to tell you I'm not yet old enough to quite have knowledge to help you, but I believe that since you've married her there is the whole in sickness and health thing and you should try to help her understand that the love you have for each other shouldn't be dependent on one thing like this, you are an individual and have your rights to be as you please and she should learn to look past that just as I'm sure both of you have learned to love the person behind any faults in each other. I wish only the best to you and hope she will understand that no matter how you dress or how you look, you are the same person she fell in love with and married for those reasons.

Ash Leland

04-24-2012, 01:04 PM

I'm surprised that she'd have that sort of reaciton after marriage and a few children. She must have some grasp of the bigger picture. It seems like once kids are involved, the relationship and the home dynamic is bigger than just two people. What if she just ceased to participate with you? She gave it a try and found out that she doesn't have it in her to be an active participant in the life of your female self...so how hard could it be to simply allow you to be you on your own time? Everyone wants marriage to be full of unconditional acceptance and understanding, but I'm surprised that she'd balk at the first real gray area. A marriage is composed of two individuals. Is it so strange that an individual should require individual space? She could at least have the maturity to understand that the welfare of your children is more important than either of you. If worse came to worse, you'd definitely be in the right to fight legally for shared custody. You are clearly very concerned with her feelings and a self-identified gynosupremacist probably wouldn't make any undue demands on a wife. You have shown yourself to be a very capable and empathic partner. If she can't meet you half way, that's her failing, and if she'd exclude you from the life of your daughters, then maybe she needs to re-assess what exactly is at stake.

Forgive me if this seems like a strong reaciton in the wrong direcction, but having observed a few divorces growing up (and having come from a divorced household myself) I tend to have strong feelings on what it means to do your part in a marriage.

sierra_g

04-24-2012, 01:07 PM

kimdl93

04-24-2012, 01:35 PM

A week isn't enough time even to get emotions in check. You are both rushing needlessly. Give yourself six months to cool off and gain a longer term perspective. See if she'd agree to that...and take a break from dressing until that 6 months is up as a demonstration of good faith. You're young - the time will pass and you'll both be in a much better position to think rationally about the future.

Sandra

04-24-2012, 02:06 PM

I don't think the fight is over, but for now it is. I am not planning to start wearing dresses everyday, but maybe I can finally shave my legs and pits, maybe don a pair of cute jeans. I don't know. Either way, it is a long strange trip.

You do any of this and things will just go downhill, doing this to an SO who is having difficulties is just rubbing her nose in it.

EDIt

Just read the rest of your responses.

You need to give it more time and tell her that, a week is no way enough time to try and sort things out.

Katesback

04-24-2012, 02:51 PM

I find it very strange that often CDs draw a conclusion that someone hates CDing. Take for example Scarlet. She used the word twice.

I have news for you guys. Just because someone chooses to have no dealing, contact, interest, desire to participate in CDing does not mean whatsoever that they hate CDing.

I just wanted to clarify this because a lot of you are very sensitive.

Trannygranny

04-24-2012, 03:40 PM

For the sake of a harmonious married life and security for the children, agree to stop. However explain to her that does not mean the desire to dress will go away as it is part of you but that you are making a sacrifice as an act of love for her.
Hopefully in time to come she will understand a little more and be more compliant.

charlie

04-24-2012, 04:28 PM

Wow Sierra! I'm sorry that you find yourself in this situation. My wife through the years has come close to this. She hates that I dress. What we did is to make sure that my dressing has the least impact on her life. I dress when I go away for work only. For me it is not that hard as I have an apartment in a different state and only dress there one week per month. See if you can compartmentalize Sierra away from your family. Clothes, wig and all things female only come out certain times and away from the family. Set boundaries both of you can abide by. Good Luck!

Silentpartner GG SO

04-24-2012, 05:25 PM

Patience is definitely a virtue I have trouble with. I am not the best arguer either. Also, I am kinda selfish. I need to work on all of those aspects. She said that I have a week to figure out what I want. Until then, no panties, makeup, or anything else like that. I will see what happens through the week. At the end of the week, we both need to decide on whether we should stay together for now. I hope it works out for us, but if not, I have a place I can go.

you're not wrong there! will you just listen to yourself - you started this thread only yesterday - asking for help - people have taken time to answer and try to offer advice and help - and what have you done, totally ignored them and just gone blundering in again!

You must have known before you married your wife that she was a religious woman, likely as not she wasnt going to take the news about your cross-dressing very well. However, she tried to accommodate you and even participated to a degree but by the sound of things, you just wanted more and more. A woman doesnt often just turn against it for no reason, the reason is quite often that the husband goes into pink fog and pushes too far too fast!

Your reaction to your wife saying she would try to accept it and stay with you was relief that you could nows shave your legs and pits! how selfish and thoughtless can a person be! "try to accept it" does not interpret into "go ahead and make yourself look like a girl 24/7" which is what shaving your legs & pits does in a wife's eyes.

Mandy offered you an excellent insight into how us GG's feel and what upsets us - and offered excellent advice, she advised you to give it some time, but no, you went ahead and opened a dialogue that very evening and what happend - you got your wife's back up again and backed her into a corner by bringing up the subject too soon - so she retaliated by saying that she wouldnt share a bed with you. I'm not surprised.

And your reaction "I'm getting tired of this"

I am getting the impression that you want to nag and nag at the situation until you either get a complete agreement from your wife or she just kicks you to the kerb- but no problem as you've already lined yourself up a place to stay if the mucky stuff hits the fan - you cant even be bothered to give your dressing a rest for a month or two to get your wife back into a comfort zone again - you are pushing way too hard - if you really want to keep your wife and kids back off and let the dust settle.

NicoleScott

04-24-2012, 05:26 PM

I think Scarlet Rose nailed it (post #53). It's time to get CDing out of the wife's face.
Kate, it may be an assumption to say that my ex-wife hated CDing, but she sure hated MY CDing, and divorced me for it. That's a distinction without a difference.

sierra_g

04-24-2012, 05:58 PM

This is exactly why I looked for this forum, signed up, and posted my story. I wanted you all to give me good advice. You all have. I am getting a general consensus that I need to put everything on hold for the time being and work on us while being hopeful that she will turn around and eventually be happier about the situation when it sinks in. You are right that pushing doesn't help a situation, and I am definitely not trying to push myself out the door. My selfish side would love single life again, but the rest of me would be miserable.
I work from home, and she is a housewife, and her mom is retired, so everyone is always home. This has really been building on us. It is an unneeded burden. I also requested that she start doing a bit more since she is going to be a housewife and that added a lot of fighting to our relationship. We are constantly fighting, but we do have good times for a few hours here and there. We do still love each other, we just also hate each other. It really is fun.
Also, depending on what plays out in the next few weeks with our insurance, wife was telling me that she found a therapist that will do marriage counseling and will work with our insurance. Hopefully they will be open minded and have good advice. She won't even look at this forum, despite multiple efforts and me telling her how much you all are bashing on me, lol.
Thank you all, I look forward to your responses. ♥

kimdl93

04-24-2012, 06:03 PM

That last part is important. If you love each other but are constantly fighting you really both need to learn some new communications techniques. It is possible to discuss...not argue. But its takes an, effort to break bad old habits. Make the effort. Anne get professional help in learning how if you need it.

MandyGG

04-24-2012, 07:25 PM

Hit the brakes, Thelma! You are gonna drive yourself straight off a cliff!

What are you asking her to do, since she is now a housewife? She is already in charge of the kids and she has her mother harping on her every waking moment of her day....what are you loading on that poor woman too?

Yes, slow your roll. No more pushing. Let her breathe without smelling perfume for a second. Give her a chance to clear her head. LEAVE IT ALONE. If you want to talk about crossdressing....do me a favor... log on here and chat away. Vent to us. Talk about whatever is floating your boat at that second, but do not, I repeat... DO NOT TALK TO HER ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW.

Yes, we all crave our single life at times. Everyone does. It was fun, we were young, we were good looking, we had sex with random people and not boring over done sex with the same person once a week, if that. I get it. We all know what it feels like. But, we are in reality. We have kids that need us. We made a commitment that ended that part of our lives. And like you said, for the most part it is a fun and happy experience. I will let you in on a secret...my marriage got BETTER when I accepted the CDing. We fight less. We are more romantic more often. We understand each other more. You will have that back. But you have GOT to give her time to sort this out on her own.

I wish she would read the crap that we are telling you. We all want to pull a Scarlet Rose with you and slap you into next week. You are nervous, scared, and wanting answers right now. I don't blame you, but pushing her is getting you nowhere fast. I think the marriage counseling will do you both some good! I hope it can start soon.

sierra_g

04-24-2012, 08:04 PM

Hit the brakes, Thelma! You are gonna drive yourself straight off a cliff!

What are you asking her to do, since she is now a housewife? She is already in charge of the kids and she has her mother harping on her every waking moment of her day....what are you loading on that poor woman too?

She has changed a bit for the better, but here was our typical day...
I woke up at 8, take my 2 (almost 3) year old down to potty, and I put her in front of a bowl of cereal.
I then went upstairs to my computer where I login to work. I worked till around 8:30, where I go down, get my daughter, and put her in her room with Disney or PBS. Back to work.
Around 9 or 9:30, my 1 year old daughter woke up and I stopped working, got her a sippy, changed her butt, gave her breakfast, and stuck her in with her sister. This is around 10am. Between 11:30 and 12, my wife woke up, did her morning ritual, and I brought the girls and her laptop down to her, where she sat on her butt playing Castleville and Angry Birds till 2, when I took lunch. She would make her and the kids' lunch and I would make mine.
I went upstairs to work again at 2:30 and I took the kids up with me for nap time. She did the dishes and picked up from lunch.
At 5, I got off work, grabbed the kids from their rooms and did what she didn't do (usually the dishes and counters).
At 5:30, I finished cleaning up and her mom comes in and makes dinner.
After dinner, I did the dishes and if the trash is full, I took it out.
At 9, we put in a load of laundry, started the dishwasher, and at 9:30, we both put the kids to bed.
At 1, we go to bed to start the process over.
On the weekends, her mom sweeps and mops the floor, we clean the bathroom and I did outside projects, and laundry (which doesn't usually get finished).

I finally stood up and said no more and after being very angry, she is a little bit better.

MandyGG

04-24-2012, 08:25 PM

I take my statement back. That's just lazy. She needs to care for the kids if she is going to be a stay at home mom! You have every right to be mad. I am mad just reading that!

TGMarla

04-24-2012, 09:18 PM

For a wife to opt to have her two girls grow up without a father in the house over an issue like crossdressing suggests to me that the issues go far deeper than mere crossdressing. The ultimatum simply doesn't balance out. To destroy one's family over so benign an issue doesn't make sense. Communication and counselling is in order here.

Silentpartner GG SO

04-25-2012, 10:18 AM

I am really pleased to read that you are taking note Sierra - sometimes we all just need a slap up side the head to make us wake and smell the coffee and I have to say fair play to you for taking the "verbal bashings" on the chin. ;)

As for your wife, from what you say, it sounds as though she is taking this gynosupremacy rthing a wee bit too far - she's got you running around like a headless chicken waiting on her - you've kinda dug yourself into a hole with it.

You have got two seperate and rather difficult problems going on right now - 1. to get your wife to buck up and start being a wife and mother - rather than a "princess"
2. to prove to your wife that CD'ing isnt the be all and end all of your life and that its part of you but not all of you and is no threat to her or your kids.

Its very difficult to offer really decent and sound advice from just hearing one side of the story but IMO I think its worth really putting the CD thing on a back burner for now and concentrating on easing your wife into being more housewifely. If she gets a bit more to do maybe she will have less time to think about how horrendous the idea of CD'ing is.

Your own place has got to be the priority - it cant be good for either of you to have mother-in-law peering over your shoulders all day every day - its unhealthy! I'd rather live in a hovel than live with in-laws!

sierra_g

04-25-2012, 11:00 AM

Just an update, not acting on it.
Last night, I told my SO that I want to put the CD on hold and that I won't go any further because we need to work on us and our relationship. My SO told me it is too late. She is done with me as her lover and I am now as she put it "Just like my gay best friend". I told her I am not gay, but she said that it doesn't matter. We will still be married, we will still share a bed, but that is as far as it goes. I can CD all I want as long as the kids aren't involved.

I was able to show her the forum last night and she said that it is very "pro-CD" and she didn't like it because of that. I asked her what she was looking for and she said she wanted something not quite as pro-CD. I think she needs to make an account on here so she can see the religious and the FAB forum. Maybe that would help. She was upset that I wouldn't let her see this thread, and that I asked her to let this be my private thread, and she shut down completely even though I told her what was in it for the most part. I didn't tell her about what I have said about her, as it would upset her.

I am going to take a break on the CD and see if I can't put us back without her help. We shall see.

Thank you all, and as always any advice is helpful.

PS. I added an avatar of my painted eyes. What do you think?

Barbara Ella

04-25-2012, 11:11 AM

Taking a break might be good, but your wife has serious problems, and her mother is an enabler, maybe kind hearted, I don't know, but she needs to butt the heck out. I can see why your wife will not say anything. Your children are being shortchanged, as are you.

Barbara

MandyGG

04-25-2012, 11:18 AM

Sierra, she sounds done. Your crossdressing has nothing to do with it. This is all within her.

She needs help. Fast.

kimdl93

04-25-2012, 11:22 AM

sierra_g

04-25-2012, 11:41 AM

Regardless of what your wife says, its a good thing to take a break and let this intense period of emotions subside. Your wife's comments are clearly based in thinly veiled anger. Dont even talk to her about this subject for a period of time, and let her be the one to bring it up.

As for her feeling that the site is "pro-CD" well, here's the deal. If she's looking for empathy or information about CDing from a variety of perspectives, including SOs (both supportive and not) she can find it here. If she's looking for someone to confirm and reinforce her prejudices...she'll have to go somewhere else.

Yeah, last night, I asked her if she was looking for an anti-CD site.
She read a bunch of threads last night and what I saw was even the GG's that were at wits end with their CD or TG SO's, since there were sympathetic and understanding replies, it was too Pro for her. I think she was looking purely for a thread that had 10 or 15 SO's that were hurt, irritated, etc without any positive, a place to wallow in pity if you will. Pretty much a support group pity party.

MandyGG

04-25-2012, 11:44 AM

I was in your situation about ten years ago,I told my wife I am a crossdresser,at first she was ok with it,then she told me to move out,my kids were about seven and ten at the time,I wasn't going to leave my kids.I agreed to go to counseling,she wouldn't go,said I was the one with the problem and had better quit dressing,I went to a counselor (shrink),he said I cannot change the way I am or how I feel,I told my wife I quit dressing....of course I couldn't,just did it away from home,I shaved my legs a couple of years ago,told her I just couldn't stand the hair,she has gotten used to it ,then told her last year I am still dressing and that I can never quit,it is who I am,and that I will not and cannot change.....she is now ok with it as long as she never sees me dressed,so I still dress away from home,but atleast she knows....so if she finds my clothes in my pickup,she will not be shocked........I doubt that she will ever totally accept my dressing but I will find out in a couple of years when I retire,and will be home most of the time....I am going to dress in front of her,she will either accept it or we will go our separate ways.........atleast I have been there for my kids........good luck!

So, because you can't live with the thought of someone else helping raise your children, it is ok to pull her along?? She gave you an out when she told you that she didn't like it and didn't want to deal with it. I am reading this correctly that you are going to make her wait until her RETIREMENT years to leave you because of the dressing when she asked for it years and years before hand!?!?! She could have been happily married to someone that loved HER (and not just the kids) this entire time, but because of you choosing to lie to her, she has been stuck in a situation that she has no say in.

Wow.

Yeah, last night, I asked her if she was looking for an anti-CD site.
She read a bunch of threads last night and what I saw was even the GG's that were at wits end with their CD or TG SO's, since there were sympathetic and understanding replies, it was too Pro for her. I think she was looking purely for a thread that had 10 or 15 SO's that were hurt, irritated, etc without any positive, a place to wallow in pity if you will. Pretty much a support group pity party.

Hahahah! Yeah. That's called the FAB forum! Tell her to post 10 times, do a phone interview, and then she can wallow away all she wants!

Silentpartner GG SO

04-25-2012, 12:28 PM

Sierra, I wouldnt totally write off your marriage just yet - your wife is sounding very angry and hurt. We females can be pretty hateful when we feel threatened - you know the adage "hell hath no wrath like a women scorned" well it's true - believe me, I am speaking from experience!

Let me tell you this, when I found out about my husband's CD'ing I went from shocked, dumbstruck, hurt, angry, ok with it, right against it, wanting to leave him, wanting to hug him - and loads of in-betweens. I still get times when I wish it would just go away. To be totally honest, I think a lot of SO's would really just like the whole CD thing to go away. I doubt that many would actively seek a relationship with a CD'er - however, it isnt going away and for the most part I have come to accept this part of my husband because I love him and he's worth the effort.

As Kim above suggests, I wouldnt even mention CD'ing to your wife, or the forum, or anything to do with it at all. Try to concentrate on the good times if you can,and show your wife that you really are a straight man, and her husband, and you love her. If she is still sleeping in the same bed with you then there is some hope.

This is a support site - but not just for CD'ers - its also a site which supports the SO's of CD'ers that can or cant get her head around her partner's CD'ing. If we want to bitch and moan and have a pity party, we can do so - in the private FAB forum. So if and when your wife is ready to find out the truth about CD'ing and you, we would welcome her with open arms and offer her all the support she needs.

Sooner or later your wife will come to a stage where she can either accept none, some or all of what Cd'ing entails but at the moment she just needs time to calm down and realise that nothing about you has really changed. She was reasonably accepting once, hopefully she can be again. She really needs very careful handling at the moment.

sierra_g

04-25-2012, 01:08 PM

pureslvr GG

04-25-2012, 02:32 PM

"Hahahah! Yeah. That's called the FAB forum! Tell her to post 10 times, do a phone interview, and then she can wallow away all she wants!"
Hmmmm, Mandy, I take exception to that statement......when my husband first came out to me and I found this forum and joined it was/is the ONLY support I had at the time. I don't see it as a place "to wallow in self pity". It is because of some of the feedback, opinions and support (yours included) that I have been able to come as far as I have with my husband. I honestly don't think I was having a "pity party". After 29 yrs of marriage to find out my husband is TG was earth shattering. I was near a mental breakdown, a far cry from "wallowing in self pity" I don't pity myself, I am scared and humbled all at the same time. You have not walked in anyones shoes but YOUR OWN....

As for you Sierra,
You have been given great advice, it's up to you to take it or ignore it. I can understand where your wife is coming from, I only wish my husband was simply a CD. CD'ing I can handle without a second thought. My situation is way more complicated but you do need to slow down, get your footing in your family and financial life, get a place of your own for you your wife and children and let her breathe. It's a lot to take in and not all of us are as "strong" emotionally as others. From what you describe of your wife's daily routine, she is suffering from depression, all the classic signs are there. She appears to have no interest in being a "mommy" or a wife, ie: taking the kids to play outside or to the park....reading them a story at naptime, having lunch with you all together as a family, HER MOM comes home and cooks dinner and YOU do the dishes She is not the adult, she is now the child again, livinig at home with mom etc. etc. etc.
She needs help, and fast, the cd issue you two have is only the tip of the iceberg my dear. Take it from someone who's been on the depression path for most of my life. Depression is hard enough, but when you add other life changing events happen in your marriage it can push her over the edge. I'm very worried for you and your family.....Please seek professional help soon......

MandyGG

04-25-2012, 03:13 PM

Awww. Purse, you know I meant no harm to your situation. I was just making a general statement that it was allowed to happen in the FAB forum. I wasn't saying that your post was one. Please don't take it personally.

Sierra, Thank you for answering my questions last night in PM's. I do wish the best for you two. Like I said, she needs some serious support right now. I think you know what needs to be done. Go save your wife and your marriage before its too late for both.

pureslvr GG

04-25-2012, 03:18 PM

TY Mandy, I appreciate your apology. It's just that I don't play in to the pity party, here or in the FAB forum. I don't have time for it. If I want to have a party, it sure as hell wouldn't be a pity party.....those aren't much fun.....♥

sierra_g

04-25-2012, 05:45 PM

Many of you have misconceptions, most are because I wasn't very clear.
My SO's mom that we live with is actually a friend of her actual mother's that took the two of them in and they all lived together for a few years in the mid 90's. Her actual mom is actually coming to visit. I like her, it should be good times. The one we live with is a religious lady, but pretty cool. She offered to let us stay here when we had nowhere else to go. We are doing better now, and although things are still tight, we could leave if we wanted, but my SO wants to take care of a few bills first.

My SO does read to the girls, does take them out to play, and we have argued quite a bit and although some days it is like pulling a mule, she has started limiting her computer time a bit more, and does help out a bit more than what I seem to have perceived below. She has attempted to go to bed earlier, and we are trying to ween her off of her Ambien and onto an herbal version so she wakes up easier.

She definitely has depression issues, and I am sure some of those are caused by her feeling of deception because she didn't marry a CD, yet here I am.
She truly does hate CD. She had friends that she would make pretty for drag shows and other events and that got to her too.

Also, we are both Christian, we both go to church almost every Sunday, and although we had church in our backgrounds, we weren't going to when we first started dating. We really didn't start going until we were married and decided we wanted to raise our kids in faith. I actually was a "youth leader support" for a couple months.

Lastly, and this was my major bad. This didn't start because I came out to her through a long talk. That did happen, but not at first. My wife searched my internet history to find a site she forgot the name of while I was camping with my dad, and found a bunch of AB fetish sites, so we fought long and hard about that. We ended up experimenting with it, but she wasn't into it and really disgusted with it. I would wear her clothes when she was gone sometimes, and find dumb excuses to wear her shoes or jacket to walk the dog, but never told her about the CD at that point. I gave the AB stuff up though. We had recently moved here, and she came out of our room and saw a 'forced CD' website. We fought a lot and she tried to accept it, but couldn't. She asked a lot of questions, and I thought that it was all about the forced aspect. We tried some stuff, but we quickly realized it wasn't about being forced as much as it was about the clothes, the attitude, the want to feel and be pretty, etc. We sought out help, and went to one therapist for a while, but the therapist got weird so we stopped going. We have been trying to accommodate CD now in different degrees for over a year. While yes, we would fight about it, it has never been as bad as it is now. We are both tired, but I am afraid she is finally done. We will see.

I re-read the entire thread from beginning to end and I think that I answered all the misconceptions with that. Sorry for not being so clear before.

MandyGG

04-25-2012, 06:04 PM

It is easy to leave things out and confuse the readers. We, as the writer, have it in our heads and it sounds right, but we forget that others have no idea who we are! No harm done.

Your story is so thick. I don't even know how to begin to wade through it. I understand where she is coming from. I would not support an Adult Baby fetish, nor would I support the forced CD. I have to give her a lot of credit for making it this far! It is good to hear that she is actively trying to get herself out of her depression. I wish her luck in the process.

I just don't have the answers for you now. I hope that someone can offer some advice on this, and I hope that you two get the help that you need.

ReineD

04-25-2012, 06:25 PM

Sierra, you've no doubt discovered that many members in this community love to discuss other people's circumstances, and when details aren't known or are unclear, they do fill in the blanks with their best guesses. At times, I've done this as well. This is natural, but it makes any "advice-giving" hit-or-miss at best. Also, members who start threads often tend to initially not always present a fully objective account of their SOs, and instead present their circumstances in a way to favor themselves. This is also human nature, I don't blame people for doing this, but again any incomplete picture that is painted in the original post will elicit advice that is not particularly applicable to the circumstances.

You should keep this in mind, and try to do your best to describe your wife and your circumstances objectively, so that you can receive the best advice possible. :)

Back to your situation, I don't blame your wife for having had a hard time dealing with the more fetishistic side of your CDing, especially after having given birth to a baby a year ago (and a another child a few years before) on top of having discovered this on her own. This would cause major trust issues. Also it is not uncommon for women to experience post-partum depression and to have it last several years (it happened to me with my 3rd child). Any other issues that crop up, be they marital problems, financial issues, or gender/sexual issues in a partner will exacerbate the depression.

I'm glad that you've decided to slow down with the CDing until things in your lives settle down a bit. I also recommend you seek marital help, even if it is to learn basic relationship skills (for you both), such as communicating, listening, and compromising. All that fighting can't be healthy, not only for you, but for the kids.

sierra_g

04-25-2012, 07:25 PM

This is important to you? In the midst of all this hull-a-baloo...this seemingly-unending morass...you ask us this? Why?

Just askin'....:straightface:

I uploaded a profile pic taken a few weeks ago and wanted to see if anyone liked it. That was it, no reason to read into it. So, do you?

MandyGG

04-25-2012, 11:15 PM

I uploaded a profile pic taken a few weeks ago and wanted to see if anyone liked it. That was it, no reason to read into it. So, do you?

Oh, boy. :wall: Sierra, no one is going to offer you any advice and feel sympathy for you, if you seem to not take this seriously. You are literally moments away from losing your wife and kids and you care if your painted eyes look good!?!?! Come on! Snap out of it! Either you are serious and need help or you are having a great laugh at our expense. If that is the case, then YAY! For me! I wasted hours worried about a family that I didn't need to.

sierra_g

04-25-2012, 11:24 PM

No, that isn't it at all. I'm sorry, I didn't think of it like that. It was me moving in, so to speak. I am taking everything you all are saying very seriously. I am listening to and using your advice. I don't really know what I am doing, I guess. As I have said before, I am very thankful for all of your advice. I cannot thank any of you enough.

Jacqueline Winona

04-26-2012, 12:43 AM

Sierra, these are delicate times for you- your marriage and family are a few steps away from trainwreck, so be careful, if they mean as much to you as I think they do. What do you want? Do you want your wife to dominate you, take you seriously, accept the CD even if she doesn't want to know about it, fight as hard as you to save the marriage, or do you want to say to heck with all of this, I want to dress, when I want, and nothing else will take it's place? Figure that out, then the rest will follow. You're not going to just shut your CD away, it's going to rear its pretty head when you need it or can't live wihout it. But be honest with yourself, you don't seem the type to accept the subordinate role (based on how ticked you seem to get when she doesn't do what you think she should be doing around the house) and your wife doesn't sound like she is comfortable with the dominant role. So, make up your mind on 1) what you want from your wife; 2) how important is your marriage and family, and 3) determine what your wife will accept, don't skulk around after a long-talk planning your next secret move or thinking "I'm doing this regardless of what she things" if you really care about her. She seems like she responded well when you finally put your foot down about the computer games, that could be a big hint about what she wants from you.

sierra_g

04-26-2012, 09:52 AM

Janice, I am not quite looking for dominance. Not anymore. We have really been working to correct past mistakes and make it more 50/50. I would love her to accept the CD part of me and work it into our lives.
One of our biggest problems is that we are sub/sub. I guess it is better than dom/dom. Neither of us can make a decision, neither wants to lead, and the number one phrase uttered in our house seems to be "It doesn't matter, whatever you want".
I do get upset, but it is usually very silent. I have been trying to change that. Sometimes I will keep my mouth shut and let it build until I boil over and start yelling, but the receiver has no idea I was even mad at them until I explode.
It has been over a week since I last wore even panties. I am really trying to not be too feminine while we have this argument.

Last night, I finally let her read the entire thread. It was causing a lot of hostility to not let her read it and I felt that she should know what was said. We don't lie to each other and we don't hide anything from the other. Too much pain has been caused by my deceit in the past, so I am open and honest now. She was upset about a few of the posts. I had originally written and replied to this thread as if she would never read it, so I never watched out for her feelings. A stupid mistake on my part. I never wanted to hurt her, or cause a fight over this thread since I created it to get help. After she read the entire thread to this point, all 86 posts, she told me she was upset, that she would reply to it soon, and that she wanted me to know that she does truly love me and that she is still IN love with me. (YAY!) Maybe we aren't as screwed up as I had originally thought.

Sandra

04-26-2012, 10:05 AM

After she read the entire thread to this point, all 86 posts, she told me she was upset, that she would reply to it soon,

So she's going to join us here? because she'll have to have her own account to be able to reply as she cannot use yours.

sierra_g

04-26-2012, 10:13 AM

Yes, exactly. I wouldn't let her use mine.

ReineD

04-26-2012, 10:16 AM

One of our biggest problems is that we are sub/sub. I guess it is better than dom/dom. Neither of us can make a decision, neither wants to lead, and the number one phrase uttered in our house seems to be "It doesn't matter, whatever you want".

Maybe you could both make a concerted effort to be switches. You might surprise yourselves! :)

MandyGG

04-26-2012, 10:34 AM

I hope that she does join us here! That would do so much for you both.

JenniferR771

04-26-2012, 01:19 PM

sierra_g

04-26-2012, 06:25 PM

Welcome Sierra G's other half. Remember crossdressing is not a hobby that you just take up when you are bored. You are born with it. Just the same as if you were born left-handed or gay. To the two of you , accept what you cannot change.

I definitely feel that a weak chromosomal push is one cause for it, but I also believe that a number of CD's are created from their environments. Mothers dress their boys as girls, women dress their boyfriends and husbands, maybe a traumatic event in someone's life. I love the idea of "born this way", but I don't think it is always the case.

Personally, I first got the urge to dress up when I was in Elementary School (I didn't understand those feelings or try until high school), and all my life people have told me I am acting a little "gay", so maybe I was born with it, but I don't know.

Tara D. Rose

04-26-2012, 07:17 PM

Personally, I first got the urge to dress up when I was in Elementary School (I didn't understand those feelings or try until high school), and all my life people have told me I am acting a little "gay", so maybe I was born with it, but I don't know.
Oh come on, now we're back to yesteryear, so you are saying that some of your classmates thought you were a little "GAY" and so it was no surprise that you were a cross dresser, ,,,eighter of your self or of others??? So is being a cross dresser a by product of being "GAY"?????or vice versa???
I mean, after all, you are a cross dresser, you ought to and should know first off that being gay or bi does not neccessarily go hand in hand, one can be without the other and a cross dresser can be gay or bi, but to imply that some thought you were gay meant that crossdressing goes right along with it??? . Gay does not = CD,,, and CD does not = gay, and gay does not = bi, one can stand alone without the other, one does not half to go hand in hand with the other. Your statement is steriotypical at it's best. It's like saying my dad is a priest and you know, he has never molested the young boys in the congregation, WOW what a surprise.

sierra_g

04-26-2012, 07:33 PM

No no, after re-reading, I can see how you misunderstood and am sorry for that. I meant feminine, but I used the words that I was called. Both kids and adults have thought I act a bit more feminine than the social stereotype of "guy" all my life. I didn't mean to lump gay/bi and CD. I was going for a fast reply and didn't re-read what I typed. My bad.

Polly Sharp

04-26-2012, 08:08 PM

Hey Sierra

Hello from a long-term CD in England. I've just found this board and yours was the first story I read. It got me wanting to register as I so wanted to give a reply, even if I have had to wait to be accepted as a new member.

I hope that I can give you hope, feel free to take parts of my tale to use in your own quest to find peace with your relationship.

I've been married 3 times now. My 3rd wife knew I dresed from the start. After we got together I sat down and told her. She was willing to go along with it and even took some of my things for herself at first. Because of work being so demanding, I didn't dress much and even when I did, it was when she was working away.

Then came the day when she found my stash - by then it had grown from a bag full I had brought with me, to several boxes on top of the wardrobes and the two suitcases we kept up there. She wanted a suitcase, found it was heavy and opened it up. The checked the rest of what was up there. I got home that night to no food ready, and a sobbing wife looking at a mountain of clothing in a heap on the bedroom floor.

You bet we talked that night! I explained to her that I had dressed since I was a child. It was a part of me. I was not gay, as she accused me of being. It was not something I wanted to stop, I don't think I could.

What brought her round more was that I told her how much I loved her. That she was all I wanted, that there would only ever be one 'other woman' to worry about, and that was Polly. She actually laughed at that, with me, not at me.

I was still the same person I had always been, and always would be. I wanted her, as a man wants a woman, and I had explored the possibilities long before I met her and I wasn't wanting to have an operation or anything I was content with dressing. It wasn't a fetish thing, but a genuine need to feel comfortable with myself. To be relaxed and get rid of tension, without any sexual release being involved.

Over the next few days we talked some more. There were times when she said she didn't want it, I had to stop, but I had to convince her that it would never stop. No matter what I did, this was part of me, the person she was married to. For better, for worse.

We got round to talking about what she felt comfortable in - t-shirt and jeans, with boots! Now come on, if she can wear those on a regular basis, in public, then she was more of a cross dresser than I was!

One thing you mentioned, and in my book a big NO NO. Don't ever wear her clothing, especially without her knowing. That's just bad and gains you no respect if she finds out, and she probably already knows. They do y'know.

My (3rd) wife asked me why I wore womens clothing, I said I didn't, it's MY clothing. I have bought my own over the years. Through being more understanding with each other we now accept that I will epilate/shave my legs, in the summer months I shave or epilate my chest and as much other hair as I can, arms, neck and so on. I tried getting my wife to do my back too, but she just wasn't comfortable with that - not that she didn't want to, but she was bothered about cutting or hurting me!

My 2nd wife seemed to think that I would do most of the housework and leave her to sit and watch TV, this was on top of me having a full time job. She claimed that having the kids all day tired her out. What I found after was that she would shut them in a playroom and go out! I would get home from work, cook a meal, do the laundry, wash up, bath the kids and get them to bed and whatever else she had not done, which was virtually everything.

I think, had she known about my dressing, I would have been put in a maids outfit! She had already stopped all the marital stuff, refused point blank after our 3rd child was born. I had been for a vasectomy. Despite talking about it before the op, she then blamed me that she would have no more children.

Quite a lot of 'blame' was put my way, both in the marriage and afterwards. Just what I did to deserve such problems, I do not know. My dressing was certainly not an issue.

In your case I think your wife is putting too much on to you, and trying to make out you are a bad person. Is she perhaps telling the person you live with that she has done all the work? Are the odds being stacked against you? I don't know, but the thought entered my head.

Personally I would stand up to her more and try to regain some lost ground. It may not seem practical, with the threats you've already had, but don't let her ruin your life. You are putting a heck of a lot into the marriage and I really think she's blowing your dressing out of proportion to try and enforce her wishes and concepts of life upon you.

I have spent a lot of time trying to help fellow CD's. I was part of a very active group in my area, going out to give talks to very different groups of people, from students at university, to care workers looking after homeless children.

A lot of people are ignorant of our needs. Thinking all CD's are gay is quite common, some may be, as with any cross-section of society. It's like saying that all baseball players are gay, some may be, most are not. Thinking we do this to act cheap and gain attention, also a common mistake to make. My own requirement is more for the calming efect it has on me. I need that outlet at times.

Through going out there and meeting people, I felt that I was able to explain better just what is needed. A level of understanding that has been given to gay and lesbian people already. The sooner it is seen that we are no out to harm anyone, that this is who we are, the better.

Much love to you both, I hope you can find a solution that makes you both happy. It is silly to have anything come between a couple who have committed their lives to each other.

April_Ligeia

04-26-2012, 08:58 PM

I received an ultimatum a couple of years ago from my ex-wife. Say no more.

sierra_g

04-26-2012, 10:01 PM

Hello Polly,
I appreciate your wanting to join the board to try to help with my situation. I relate to some of the stuff you talk about, but I am wondering why you chose to hide your CD side from your wives. I am not really in any position to say anything, but did this deception possibly assist in the chain of events that eventually caused your divorces? If I have learned one thing from all of this, it is to be honest with your SO from day 1. Not something that should be brought up on the first date, but maybe before sex. I made that mistake with my SO because of a combination of shame, embarrassment, and it having taken place much earlier in life and I thought that part of my life was over. Boy, was I wrong, lol! If I had known that I would find the need to CD, I would've let her know before I asked her to marry me. Unfortunately, she found out because I was looking at it on the computer. If I could change something, it would've been that.
Thank you.

Polly Sharp

04-29-2012, 08:41 PM

...I am wondering why you chose to hide your CD side from your wives. I am not really in any position to say anything, but did this deception possibly assist in the chain of events that eventually caused your divorces?...
Well, I learned the hard way I guess. When I got married the first time there were no computers or Internet, so finding information was very difficult. It wasn't until my first wife and myself were in the process of splitting up that I knew anything much about being Trans, apart from what I felt was right for me. When we did split she tried to make out she wanted me to dress and 'have fun' but ignored the real reasons for breaking up, which were her fault and had happened long before she had any idea. So no, it didnt contribute to the divorce.

2nd wife didn't know, apart from helping me dress for 'fancy dress' nights. She knew I liked that. Even after we had seperated she was probably more receptive to the idea than I had anticipated. But, we had kids, there wasn't time for me to do more than the occasional fancy dress night anyway. Again, I was only just picking up info through 'bulletin boards' rather than the wealth of info that is around on the Internet these days. The topic never really came up. I was too busy with my job and the kids to dress, but that all changed when I had my own place for a while.

I didn't hide it on purpose, I was scared of what may happen if I was found out. How would the topic have come up? As I said, things are more open these days. Loads of websites, even organisations that are actually aware that's it's not just a case of a guy wants to have an op to swap sex, there are other possibilities without going that far.

Both of these women took up with other guys behind my back. Nothing to do with anything I did, or did not. The only 'other woman' I had was Polly. I am not the cheating kind. I had dressed a lot more in my teens, before I got married the first time. All that had been left behind me, until things started to go wrong and I had a bit of comfort from being Polly a little.

So, with my 3rd wife I was open and honest about dressing. Things did get out of hand with the sheer amount of stuff I hoarded away, which brought on a difficult period. But we worked through it and now we're happier than we have ever been about the subject.

She has allowed me to do my own thing and I am amazed at myself for the changes it brought in me. With the first 2 I was keen to cook, clean, iron and whatever - since getting more into the femme role I've skimped on dusting, only vacumn the middle of the carpet and hardly ever cook ;-)

The big issue is that how you feel will not 'go away', no matter what your intended may say. She cannot control your feelings and you would be frustrated trying. You're right, being honest from day 1 is the way to go. Had I known back in the 1970's what I know now, things may have been different.

My first wife would not have had a 'lodger' for 12 years, who was stupid enough to pay for everything and got nothing in return. The marriage was over in the first few months, through her actions. I stayed on to help bring up 2 kids who were not even mine, but that's another story.

Again, if I knew then what I know now... I would have tried to find a woman who would help me as Polly, but back then there were no dating companies who catered for 'kinky' people. Even mens magazines hardly touched on the topic. I remember reading once about a woman who had caught her husband wearing her undies and was disgusted, the magazine replied to say that she should get a proper man instead!

The Internet has been wonderful in bringing the subject out a lot more. Despite what doubting partners may think, sites like this can help. For a start, it shows that their partner is not the only one - something I felt back in my early days. Therte is a palce to find out more, and possibly get help from other partners in the same situation. I didn't have that available.

The one other thing I did differently before taking the plunge the third time was to live with my intended for 4 years, before we got married. We both had time to find out about each other and be sure it was what we wanted before making a committment. I rushed into things with the first 2, and regretted it afterwards.

ReineD

04-29-2012, 10:08 PM

Over the next few days we talked some more. There were times when she said she didn't want it, I had to stop, but I had to convince her that it would never stop. No matter what I did, this was part of me, the person she was married to.

This is worth repeating. From my experience, the least accepting wives are those whose husbands aren't clear about the CDing. These husbands may feel guilty for not having told their wives from the onset, or they may not yet fully accept themselves and are still caught up in purging cycles, but the bottom line in such marriages seems to be that the wife believes the husband "should" stop, and the husband agrees (even if he disagrees privately) because he doesn't want to upset his wife!

And so false promises are made even with the best of intentions and the husband determines to "control" the CDing somehow but every time his wife notices that he even looks at an item of clothing or he paints his toenails, or God-forbid she finds an item of clothing he has purchased, she reacts negatively because she believes that he is violating their agreement.

No matter when a wife finds out, whether it is at the beginning of a relationship, or after some years whether on her own or when her husband finally decides to tell her because he no longer feels he can keep the CDing under wraps, it is crucial that a wife be told that the CDing is simply not going away, ever, that it is a part of her husband's fundamental self. It is better to face the music head-on at the beginning, IMO, than to precariously dance around the subject for years, all the while deteriorating the relationship because each partner is operating under a different set of expectations.

And once they both come to the same basic understanding that a desire to express femininity is just as much a part of a husband's makeup as the color of his eyes, they can both work on ground rules they feel comfortable with. This can range from a wife who does not wish to participate, allowing her husband adequate time and space to CD, to a wife being actively involved. There is not "one" best way to achieve workable and satisfactory ground rules since every CDer's needs are different and every GG is different. The importance is that neither partner should resent the other for their needs.

Polly Sharp

04-30-2012, 05:59 AM

Over the next few days we talked some more. There were times when she said she didn't want it, I had to stop, but I had to convince her that it would never stop. No matter what I did, this was part of me, the person she was married to. For better, for worse.
Just to try and put this into something that most SO's should recognise, it is as much a part of the person as if they were left handed - it is something they were born with and will have all their life. It may not be a physical blemish, but it is _there_ and is not something that can be talked away. That is a very important point to get over as part of the conversation.

04-30-2012, 09:28 AM

I have invited her to join forums with me on things like this before, and has always told me she doesn't care for one sided arguments and everyone on the forum will be automatically on my side. It isn't usually the case at all. I am normally a very selfish person. I've tried to let that go best I can.

Divorce, if it happens, is best when the children are very young. If we are headed down that road, it is best now instead of later. I just don't ever want it.

For the Gynosupremesy, I believe that women are better than men at a lot of important things, such as thinking, multi tasking, etc. We tried a wife led relationship. She wasn't comfortable with it, so we are at 50/50, but if there is a decision we are both on the fence about, she gets final decision. It works for us.

Right now, we are living with her mom. If my wife tells her mom about the CD, I will be out immediately, no questions asked. Wife can come with or go, but she would stay. Just to be safe, I always know of a place I could live, but getting the deposit and rent is the tough part. All my money goes to bills and kids.

Just to know here in the GG section not one sided.....we support the GG...her feelings and answer questions with personal things from out personal life.
End up realizing it is part of you...you are not gay. Basically we support them but they also get the full picture.

It might just be for right now the last thing she wants to deal with if there are other stresses. ( like living with mum, money and whatever else)

So if it gets to a point where she needs to vent ( not out you to her mom& having someone to get her thoughts and fears out) you can tell her about us.

sierra_g

04-30-2012, 11:25 AM

Just to know here in the GG section not one sided.....we support the GG...her feelings and answer questions with personal things from out personal life.
End up realizing it is part of you...you are not gay. Basically we support them but they also get the full picture.

It might just be for right now the last thing she wants to deal with if there are other stresses. ( like living with mum, money and whatever else)

So if it gets to a point where she needs to vent ( not out you to her mom& having someone to get her thoughts and fears out) you can tell her about us.

My SO GG made an account (Mrs. G), and when she is ready, she wants to post. I am hoping it will be soon, but I am giving her whatever time she needs. If this thread happens to hit the third page, or the fifth page, it will still be resurrected so she can reply to it.

I haven't been posting on our current situation lately because I want to wait for her side to be told by her. Also because her real mom was in town for a few days. ♥

WifeofWrenchette

05-01-2012, 04:27 AM

Welcome to Mrs. G. I hope you two can work things out and you both can get the help you need with counseling. You sound like you are in a very stressful situation with two small kids, money, and living with her mom. The last thing either of you needs is more stress.

ChrisP

05-01-2012, 06:38 AM

Relationships can hit irreconcilable differences. If dialogue with your partner becomes one sided, or even impossible, it's your responsibility (to yourself and to the relationship) to ask yourself: am I better off staying in this relationship, or leaving?

It's not always our fault when things go bad, but it is always our responsibility to try to make things better.

Chris

sierra_g

05-01-2012, 06:34 PM

As of a couple hours ago, my SO actually said the D word and asked that we sleep in separate beds. I am in a lot of shock, I begged that we go see a counselor before we split, so we are going to go see someone. We have the appointment scheduled. Until then, I guess I will just bide my time and try to save some $$ up, just in case. The question that broke her was if I was willing to deny this forever or not. I told her I couldn't guarantee forever because it keeps popping back up stronger than before, ever since I was young.

She did talk to her mom, which was a bit of a help.

ReineD

05-01-2012, 06:53 PM

Sierra, unless you are planning on living full time, or you are into a deep pink fog where your leisure time centers around the CDing (in which case I can see why your wife would have a hard time dealing with it), my best guess is that she simply doesn't understand what this is all about. You need to clarify what the CDing means to you, what are your goals, how you see it affecting your relationship (how many times per week would you like to dress, and can the two of you come to a compromise about this), and then have a frank discussion with your wife asking her what it is exactly that she objects to. She may think she has lost her husband and you can reassure her on this point. If her answer is that men aren't supposed to wear dresses, then she really does need to learn there are men who are gender variant and who need to express femininity on occasion, but this doesn't mean they cannot have a great marriage, cannot be wonderful fathers, and cannot continue to be husbands to their wives.

I'm not sure what your circumstances are, whether or not your wife has a religious or a moral objection or if there are trust issues due to the hiding, but are you sure the two of you have talked this out as much as you can?

Mrs. G

05-02-2012, 12:01 AM

ReineD

05-02-2012, 12:57 AM

Hi Mrs. G, thank you so much for joining in and telling your side. It is terribly difficult to help someone (anyone), when we only hear one side of the story. Humans being what they are (myself included in my own divorce from my ex who is not a CDer), we tend to bias the telling in our favors. This is natural.

First, I want to tell you that you are not rambling, you are not hurting anyone's feelings, you are instead being honest with how YOU feel and how YOU see things, which is exactly what you are supposed to be doing. You're not here to "be nice", you're here to try to save your marriage and the only way to do this is to put everything on the table, and I mean everything, so that the partners can then move on to the process of defining their issues (exactly), and trying to find a place in the middle where they can both breathe. A compromise.

Second, the one most difficult, most wrenching issue in all of this are the lies, the omissions, and the half truths. I wish more husbands understood just how much harm that trust erosion causes a relationship. Yet these husbands fear telling the truth because they fear the consequences. They fear losing their wives. They fear hurting them. They think they can keep the CDing compartmentalized and under control. A part of them agrees with their wives and the rest of society that they "shouldn't" do this. They want to stop. They want to purge. And then they want to start all over again. Or, they don't know the whole truth themselves, they are still trying to figure it out. It gets pretty complex psychologically and emotionally, when you consider the nature of a birth male's repressed need to express femininity.

I don't know your husband. I don't know where he fits along the gender spectrum. But I CAN tell you one thing that is true, without a shadow of a doubt. The allure of expressing femininity in a repressed transgender male is SO strong as to make him believe all sorts of things that when faced in real life, he would never do or go for. Trust me on this, I've read thousands upon thousands of threads from the CDers and their wives. There is a phenomena we call here, "the pink fog", where it seems as if fantasy and imagination become blurred with reality. This is true in the most general sense, even though I do not know your husband's particulars. I compare this to a pressure cooker that doesn't have a steam hole, and then you take the lid off. There's an explosion of steam (the pink fog), and you can imagine when you do this over and over again: build up the pressure without an escape, and then remove the lid. But, when if you keep the lid permanently off and the water is at a simmer, the steam that will rise from the liquid will be much steadier, much gentler.

Sorry if this is cryptic but it's the best analogy I can think of right now.

Anyway, do get your ten posts in and come join us in FAB, although you also can get a lot of great advice from the crossdressers on this site who are in long-term, stable relationships with their wives ... the crossdressers who have had the chance to explore the CDing and who know where they stand, what they want, and for whom it is no longer this mysterious, unexpressed need that is constantly on the verge of exploding. In short, the CDers who have discovered how to balance all of this in their lives.

In the meantime I wish you well in your counseling appointment, and I do hope that the counselor has some familiarity with gender non-conforming males. If he or she doesn't, do try to find someone who does. Your healing process will go all that much quicker if you do. You need to be told the truth about this so that you can make appropriate decisions for yourselves and your family.

Don't disappear on us, OK? There is much you need to learn, before you can in all good conscience make a final decision about the future of your marriage. And, after investigating this thoroughly, after you've learned as much of it as you can, you'll be in a much better position to decide.

:hugs:

Eryn

05-02-2012, 01:40 AM

...However a much bigger part is the repeated feeling of being deceived and lied too. I can say tonight is the first time my SO has decided to be honest, to the point of telling me the truth whether or not it hurts me to hear it. Through our whole marriage and dating life his has been half honest with me, but only after discovering many truths my self and he felt forced to do so. I hate to think of the kinda of person I have become, I have compromised myself, time and time again in the hopes of being able to save our marriage. I feel that in some ways there is no more of myself left to compromise. Sierra has worried so much about my feelings that he has hidden part of himself and lied to try and save our marriage as well, however it seems that even with both of our efforts the wedge between us gets bigger and bigger.

Today's breaking point comes again from feeling deceived. I had been looking for places to post my minimums so I could join FAB, while looking I ran across some other posts from my SO. I guess I should have known better than to let my curiosity get a hold on me. I found out that he has thought about HRT and said he would even consider an Orchiectomy. I guess in some ways I felt as if I had been sucker punched once again. While dealing with the idea my SO likes to CD, I am now confronted my the knowledge that it may not be enough for him that he may indeed want to become a girl full time.

This is a tough thing for both of you. I'm not privy to your situation, but in my case I had get to the point where I would admit my feelings to myself before I could talk to my wife about them. During that time I did withhold information from her, an act which could be interpreted as deceptive. Now that state is behind us and our relationship is stronger than ever.

Please keep in mind that we do tend to talk about things that we likely won't do. HRT and other procedures are very commonly discussed, but most of us will never take those steps.

The best thing to do is to keep the lines of communication open. While it may not be easy to discuss some of these topics, it will become easier with time and practice. You may find that your best times lie ahead of you!

Eryn

Jacqueline Winona

05-02-2012, 01:49 AM

For what it's worth, I'm praying for both of you, and I respect your feelings, Mrs. G. I feel kind of lucky that I have no desire to do anything other than dress, and just occasionally at that. I just hope you both find common ground.

Sandra

05-02-2012, 03:20 AM

Reine,

However a much bigger part is the repeated feeling of being deceived and lied too.

A lot of GGs here can relate to this as many have gone through it. The only way for this to be made better is that from now on the truth is told, even if that means that you hear things that hurt you, it's better for you to hear them now than years later, also you have to be honest. Trust has to be built up again and this will take time it's not an overnight thing, and your SO has to realise that this is going to take a lot of time and by that I mean it could take months or even years.

Polly Sharp

05-02-2012, 10:45 AM

...I wish I could write more...
Hello Mrs G

First of all a big round of applause for joining the forum and at least trying to take on board what you are faced with. I do hope the members here can help you in some way.

A lot of what you need to do is under your own control. You can talk with Sierra and find out how she feels about her desires. I always refer to people in the gender they present to me, so Sierra is female in this context - to me anyway.

Yes, gender reassignment and HRT are options, for some but not all. Many look at these routes to find out more, if it is what they want. The majority turn back before starting to contact their doctor or anyone else as it is not their ultimate aim.

For me it was fantasy at one time, now it is a missed opportunity. I did not have the means to look into the possibilities when I was at an age where it may have been an option, who knows if I would have taken that route. Somehow, I doubt it. Once I knew what was involved, and bearing in mind the prejudices that are still around today, I don't think I would have.

You are both afraid that this is something that is a major problem between you. It was for my wife when I first told her, and also when she realised just how deep a feeling it was within me. But, we love each other and wanted to stay together. We don't have children together, so that wasn't an issue, and we've managed to reach a point where she is not in the least bothered if I shave my legs or chest hair, if I wear panties all day - even to go out in. She would not blink an eye if I was wearing a skirt of dress when she comes home. She knows it is just a part of me, the person she fell in love with and married.

I don't have any other woman in my life except 'Polly', and my wife is happy about that. Yes, there are times when I feel the need to dress fully, put on a wig and have make-up on, but that's not all the time. With me, and I've no doubt others, it is a release. It helps to take the stress out of life, without being a sexual thing.

Right now I am in a strange state as my mother passed away at the weekend. I feel vulnerable, but I'm not looking for sympathy, more an understanding that this is a time where I feel that I need to be strong, but also that I need my inner peace through being my feminine self. It is calming to be dressed.

Putting someone under stress is not going to help, this just puts a barrier up between you as Sierra may be feeling that they need that 'escape' from normal life even more.

In a few years time you need to be able to look back upon this time and says to each other that you were both being silly in making such an issue of it.

Polly in England.

danielle.cd

05-02-2012, 11:27 PM

Reine,
Thank you for being a support for my SO. I have been very hesitant to reply because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. I am afraid to cause anyone harm by my words, the old saying "sticks and stones" is one I no longer believe, I know words hurt.

To answer a few of your questions, yes a small part of my problem is my personal religious and moral beliefs. However a much bigger part is the repeated feeling of being deceived and lied too. I can say tonight is the first time my SO has decided to be honest, to the point of telling me the truth whether or not it hurts me to hear it. Through our whole marriage and dating life his has been half honest with me, but only after discovering many truths my self and he felt forced to do so. I hate to think of the kinda of person I have become, I have compromised myself, time and time again in the hopes of being able to save our marriage. I feel that in some ways there is no more of myself left to compromise. Sierra has worried so much about my feelings that he has hidden part of himself and lied to try and save our marriage as well, however it seems that even with both of our efforts the wedge between us gets bigger and bigger.

Today's breaking point comes again from feeling deceived. I had been looking for places to post my minimums so I could join FAB, while looking I ran across some other posts from my SO. I guess I should have known better than to let my curiosity get a hold on me. I found out that he has thought about HRT and said he would even consider an Orchiectomy. I guess in some ways I felt as if I had been sucker punched once again. While dealing with the idea my SO likes to CD, I am now confronted my the knowledge that it may not be enough for him that he may indeed want to become a girl full time. When asked previously he had told me he didn't think he could do those things that he indeed like being a man. Now that I have confronted him again about what he wants his future to look like, he says he is unsure. When I asked him why he couldn't tell me these things when I asked him, he didn't know that either.

I LOVE my husband very much, and I am truly scared for him. I must be honest I am scared for myslef and my daughters as well. We have a counseling appointment next Wednesday. I continue to pray for healing to be brought to our marriage, for me to be able to trust him again, and for us to find a place of peace for both of us, I just worry that the only peace we may find may not be together and that thought terrifies me.

I wish I could write more but fear with emotions running so high I may be rambling about things. I would love to talk more, I'm just o sure what to say except thank you again.

~Mrs. G
hi glad u joined and even posted your side , im not taking either side , but i do want to ask some things and maybe u can think about them first,

first off would your husband love u any less if u had to have a mastectimy for any reason. why do u call a some one who loves to dress up as a girl gay, plenty of actors dress and where makup r they homosexual. where do u go to escape when u need a break , there are alot of cders that cd to escape there lives for a little while. the more u read up on it the more info u know ,

marriage is more that i want u to do this and if u dont then this will happen , i agree that u shouldnt be lied to and that truths are scary to come to relizations with , u know have u two even set boundryies cding is like a disease to some sort u cant fully get rid of it there may be a long drought but it eventually comes back , now being a christian myself , there are stuff in the bible that talks about many things with marriag and with eunichs and such and about forgiveness and how often
be well read before u swing that sword , one verse or another out of contexts can be devistating when used the wrong way . before u even mention the d word u do your home work find out how others have delt with this and see if theres something that works for u , just cause feelings get hurt dont mean u should be using that word as a lever to get your way , heck u havent even had a good couseling (from what i have read)to hash it out to even come close to a compremise , yes i said compremise , theres kids involved plus what would outing him do to them at such impresionable ages, the one thing i really would like u to do first if u would , is take the time to sit down and watch the movie FIre pROOF together. it will get the ball rolling if u want it ill send it to u free of charge

Mrs. G

05-03-2012, 04:25 AM

first off would your husband love u any less if u had to have a mastectimy for any reason. why do u call a some one who loves to dress up as a girl gay, plenty of actors dress and where makup r they homosexual. where do u go to escape when u need a break , there are alot of cders that cd to escape there lives for a little while. the more u read up on it the more info u know ,

Danielle,
Thank you for your input, I would be glad to discuss with you the questions you asked. I believe that if It was medically necessary for me to have a mastectomy, my husband would indeed still love me. I do know however that we have discussed surgery just for the sake of surgery, such as say, I were to get a nose job, is something we agreed is money that could be better spent else where. The man I married didn't tell me he wanted to be a woman, he still isn't sure if it is what he wants now.

I grew up a theater nerd I am well aware of dressing and putting a character on for a performance, no it doesn't make that person Gay, although I have had many a best friends that are. The worry about his being gay comes as a combination to his past, where he dabbled with the idea and experimented, combined with the CD/TG.

Someplace to escape isn't something either of us really have as a luxury. I am trying to understand his need and desires, however I am also realistic to the fact I know there are certain things I can not accept in a marriage I am in. We are working to find out exactly what it is he want and how he is to decide if it is best for us to split ways while our children are young and we both have a chance to find love again. It wrenches every part of my being to think of us not being together. But its isn't fair to either of us to stay in the marriage only to turn around and end it when the kids have grown and he decides what he wants.

We have actually had counseling before in the past, the town we live in is a very Mormon lead community, for the most part we don't even get to our core problems when they are trying to "SAVE" us and send him to a porn addicts class, that thinking will not help us.

It is true there are many interpretations of the bible and its verses that people often manipulate to suit what they need at the time. After lots of prayer I don't believe that is our case. I have spent many countless nights in Prayer, and reading trying to find a compromise that will work for us. However I know where the line in the sand is for me, I am willing to let him have what he needs and compromise up to that point. The part of the problem is he doesn't know if he wants to cross that point or not.

I am willing and wanting to do what I can to save our marriage I do not believe in divorce, but for me there is a point where, for my children and myself I have to draw a line. He at that point has to make a decision only he can make, is the compromise enough for me or not. I pains me that I cant help, or make that decision for him.

We looked up the movie and are both interested in seeing it and have even discussed challenging ours selves to the love challenge.

Thank you for taking in my part as well, I look forward to answering any more questions and chatting more.

Sandra

05-03-2012, 04:35 AM

first off would your husband love u any less if u had to have a mastectimy for any reason.

Geezz what the the hell has that got to do with what Mrs G is going through? Having surgery like that and cding is so far apart I can't believe that you even brought it up.

ReineD

05-03-2012, 05:29 AM

The part of the problem is he doesn't know if he wants to cross that point or not.

That's the problem with pink fog. When they're caught up in it, they really don't know.

My SO and I once spent an evening with a CDer who was having similar problems. This CDer was just coming out to his wife (aka the coming out of the second closet, see below), and he met us for dinner dressed. I think his wife was out of town. She knew, but she hated it. They were in the process of negotiating: He wanted to dress at least once per week, and she didn't want more than once per month. Anyway, he told us the same thing as your husband, that he wasn't able to "promise" his wife that he would never want to transition, since he couldn't tell the future.

My SO and I discussed this when we were alone and we both came to the same conclusion: this CDer simply was at the "pressure cooker lid popping off" stage (my SO also went through a similar phase when he came out of his first closet, and likely when he came out of his third closet too, although I'm not sure). At any rate, the allure of having feminine experiences which some CDers mistake for "possibly" wanting to transition, is just that ... a very strong allure based on an idealized view of what it must be like to be a woman, that does die down once they do go out and do regular things out in the mainstream. But, they don't know this until they actually do go out and it becomes old hat.

As to the coming out of closets for crossdressers, (it is different for TSs) I've observed several stages (generally speaking):

The first closet wall tumbles down when there is self-acceptance, when there is a realization the CDing will not go away so there is no use continuing with the purging cycles.
The second closet wall goes away when a CDer comes out to a spouse or a girlfriend.
The third closet wall disappears when a CDer begins to go out in the mainstream, yet still very much stays in the background and doesn't talk to anyone for fear of being read..
The fourth and final closet wall is demolished when a CDer gains enough confidence to actually talk to people and just be herself, such as ordering food, chit-chatting with SAs, etc, and realizing these people will not run away screaming when they notice the CDer is not a GG.

My SO has torn down all his closets now and he knows he will not transition, although this wasn't always the case (see below). She goes out in the next town over once or twice per week and brings a laptop to do work at coffee shops, or has lunch, or we go out for dinner or a movie, or shopping. The rest of the time he's in guy mode. When he's very busy at work, sometimes there will be weeks of no dressing, and when he's on a break he might dress 2-3 times per week. My So passes and blends well (people who pass her by on the street do not notice that she is a genetic male), but they do know when they interact directly with her. There are very few CDers who can pass as GGs under close scrutiny. But this is OK since the vast majority of strangers really don't care and they do treat us with respect. We've been going out for 4-5 years now.

At any rate, I've also observed that the pink fog (a euphoric feeling that can last days or weeks or maybe longer for some CDers), seems to hit pretty strongly each time a new closet wall is demolished. But then it does settles down. Generally speaking.

This, I believe, is when a CDer might not be able to know whether he is TS or not. My SO also went through phases seriously questioning whether or not she might be TS. I dare say that many CDers go through this. The mistake is in divorcing during these phases, since eventually things will fall back in place again, and then there will be regret over having lost a relationship over it. I've seen this happen too.

sierra_g

05-03-2012, 10:24 AM

That's the problem with pink fog. When they're caught up in it, they really don't know.

My SO and I once spent an evening with a CDer who was having similar problems. This CDer was just coming out to his wife (aka the coming out of the second closet, see below), and he met us for dinner dressed. I think his wife was out of town. She knew, but she hated it. They were in the process of negotiating: He wanted to dress at least once per week, and she didn't want more than once per month. Anyway, he told us the same thing as your husband, that he wasn't able to "promise" his wife that he would never want to transition, since he couldn't tell the future.

My SO and I discussed this when we were alone and we both came to the same conclusion: this CDer simply was at the "pressure cooker lid popping off" stage (my SO also went through a similar phase when he came out of his first closet, and likely when he came out of his third closet too, although I'm not sure). At any rate, the allure of having feminine experiences which some CDers mistake for "possibly" wanting to transition, is just that ... a very strong allure based on an idealized view of what it must be like to be a woman, that does die down once they do go out and do regular things out in the mainstream. But, they don't know this until they actually do go out and it becomes old hat.

As to the coming out of closets for crossdressers, (it is different for TSs) I've observed several stages (generally speaking):

The first closet wall tumbles down when there is self-acceptance, when there is a realization the CDing will not go away so there is no use continuing with the purging cycles.
The second closet wall goes away when a CDer comes out to a spouse or a girlfriend.
The third closet wall disappears when a CDer begins to go out in the mainstream, yet still very much stays in the background and doesn't talk to anyone for fear of being read..
The fourth and final closet wall is demolished when a CDer gains enough confidence to actually talk to people and just be herself, such as ordering food, chit-chatting with SAs, etc, and realizing these people will not run away screaming when they notice the CDer is not a GG.

My SO has torn down all his closets now and he knows he will not transition, although this wasn't always the case (see below). She goes out in the next town over once or twice per week and brings a laptop to do work at coffee shops, or has lunch, or we go out for dinner or a movie, or shopping. The rest of the time he's in guy mode. When he's very busy at work, sometimes there will be weeks of no dressing, and when he's on a break he might dress 2-3 times per week. My So passes and blends well (people who pass her by on the street do not notice that she is a genetic male), but they do know when they interact directly with her. There are very few CDers who can pass as GGs under close scrutiny. But this is OK since the vast majority of strangers really don't care and they do treat us with respect. We've been going out for 4-5 years now.

At any rate, I've also observed that the pink fog (a euphoric feeling that can last days or weeks or maybe longer for some CDers), seems to hit pretty strongly each time a new closet wall is demolished. But then it does settles down. Generally speaking.

This, I believe, is when a CDer might not be able to know whether he is TS or not. My SO also went through phases seriously questioning whether or not she might be TS. I dare say that many CDers go through this. The mistake is in divorcing during these phases, since eventually things will fall back in place again, and then there will be regret over having lost a relationship over it. I've seen this happen too.

These are dark and scary times for us. I am definitely at that 3rd wall and am my cooker is definitely boiling over. I know most of the people in my life will accept me for me, but I know that many will walk away. In public, I've seen how people treat CD's. Totally friendly to the face, but then the giggles and insults come out when they walk away. Fine by me, as long as they are friendly to my face.

I am more excited than nervous now and any chance I get to be a bit more fem, I take it. It is kind of addicting. The further down the hole I go, I want more. This is def pink fog, which I wish would clear. I can't see in front of my face.

As far as questioning it, I dare say that all CD's question this. I questioned it once before when I was younger. I was kinda dumb about it in my teens and heard that high doses of estrogen makes you transition, so I stole a months supply of my mom's birth control pills and took 2 a day till they were gone. I do know now that it wasn't enough to do anything, but again, I was kinda dumb.

I believe that my SO and kids deserve better than me, but I do hope we can find some resolve. I would much rather temporarily seperate than divorce if it comes to it, but SO won't stay married if I don't live with her. With the CD, I've completely opened up to her -no hiding anything no matter what, so hopefully that will help. SO wants to sleep in seperate bedrooms for a while while I try CDing a bit. Since her "mom" is here, it makes it difficult to get dressed in the house, but we'll see how it all goes.

Thank you everyone. ♥

Mackenzie

05-03-2012, 11:12 AM

Confetti

05-03-2012, 11:31 AM

Hello

Closest friend is going through the same thing he is married 25 years and let her win.She threw away his things and took extra work so would not have energy to think about. She wore him down but, how is it fair? if love is unconditional and its just clothes why not seek a open group support.

His comprimise seems impressive and impossible.We only have a short span on this earth, tormenting ones self for another is not equal.

My dear friend can't see that her refusal to seek help or understand will not end well.

Hugs...

sierra_g

05-03-2012, 12:33 PM

Sierra,
Is cd-ing really worth losing your family?? No way... I would quit in a heartbeat. Maybe down the road she will be accepting. I assume you made a covenant promise to her, before God, to be with her until death parts you. You will never regret staying with your wife amd girls. Let ne know if you would like to talk privately. I have done nuch marital counselung, together with my precious wife of 33you years.

Mackenzie

I wish it was as simple as just "Is CD more important than my family?" My family would win. So much more is involved unfortunately.
Is it a strong enough force to destroy our marriage of 4 years? Am I denying myself? Am I living unhappily until I can't take it any longer, then bursting and pink fogging till my eyes bleed in 10 years, 5 years, or even just 1 year? Am I able to control it?
Believe me, I want to stay, but I also want what is best for them. If I am not it, then should I stay? Many times, my wife cries at night now. She is literally sick seeing me or even thinking about me dressed even a little bit. For the past month, she has actually attempted to distance herself to make the break easier if it happens. Is this how we should spend the rest of our lives? Would she ever get used to it, accept it, and possibly even participate without thinking ill thoughts of it? Would she ever stop worrying that I will one day tell her that I can't stand it any longer? Would she and my kids be better off with a man's man? These are my worries. This is what I am weighing.

cathie pantyhose

05-03-2012, 12:42 PM

i have to admit im lucky. my wife found my first set of pics after i forgot to delete them from the pc while moving them around flicker and the older yahoo profiles. Needless to say she was a bit shocked. I'm not a big burly guy but she always considered me a bit rough and tumble considering I play hard in the mountains and on bikes. Lot of questions and frustration but finally met with some level of acceptance. We agreed I would never dress when she is home which is great cause I work at home and dshe goes in an office and never around the kids. she always knew I loved pantyhose but never saw me dressed. I need to do new pics though.....most importantly we talked thru it all and she somehow understood. Not all do by any means. The first wife certainly wasn't. My current wife knows its who I am and even she admitted if I purge, I'm just going to buy it all back again

ReineD

05-03-2012, 01:32 PM

I believe that my SO and kids deserve better than me, but I do hope we can find some resolve. I would much rather temporarily seperate than divorce

Be very careful with this. Do not allow the pink fog or whatever else might be going on with you to convince you that it would be best to separate "temporarily" (thus giving you a chance to dress unfettered), and using the reason or excuse that your wife and kids are better off without you.

A "temporary" separation in order to dress stands to damage your marriage so severely as to not be able to get your marriage back on track, ever. I don't blame your wife for feeling as if a separation would be the beginning of the end.

You need to deal with the CDing face-to-face with your wife, talk until the cows come home, and reach a compromise that you can stick with. To Mrs. G, depending on where you're at with all of this, this would mean that you'll need to stretch a little as well, such as establishing times during the week where you will not resent Sierra for going out (since she cannot express herself at home), such as attending a CD support group or shopping in the next town over. If you both can come to a sort of compromise while you continue to talk and learn about this, Sierra the rest of the time you'll need to take yourself in hand and not obsess about the CDing, in other words, appreciate being a husband and father.

Mrs. G

05-03-2012, 05:59 PM

Thank you all again for your support in this situation. Its frustrating and hurtful to think that our family isn't enough to fulfill the void in Sierra's life. I have to remind myself that its not that we are not enough, its that he doesn't know who he is yet. Some how I blame myself that this is my fault, If I was thinner, if I was prettier, if I could some how love him more. This isn't something I caused, I didn't fail my marriage. We keep trying desperately to talk, and keep communicating, the more we talk the less I feel I know about my SO. I keep reminding myself this is probably "Pink Fog", but I worry constantly what if it isn't. What do we do? How and what do I tell our daughters. When they are grown and know the truth how do I keep them from hating me, or being angry with their father. Finding a path for us that will help Sierra feel fulfilled, and still be within the boundaries that we agree are best for our family.

I am trying to understand and to be patient, to understand the "Pink Fog". However I am on a roller coaster of emotion, I just ask for continued support for both of us, and understanding from Sierra, I'm scared, terrified really. Thank you for all of your help and different opinions.

Eryn

05-03-2012, 06:43 PM

...I am trying to understand and to be patient, to understand the "Pink Fog". However I am on a roller coaster of emotion, I just ask for continued support for both of us, and understanding from Sierra, I'm scared, terrified really. Thank you for all of your help and different opinions.

Well, after you develop your understanding of the Pink Fog, there are a lot of us CDers that would like to have it explained to us! :) I think that Reine has done her usual amazing job of getting into CDers minds in her post above. I read it and say "good heavens, that's right! Why didn't I realize that?"

You certainly did not fail your marriage and your presence here shows that you likely won't. A marriage fails only when one partner gives up and cuts off communication. Avoid that and the two of you can work your way through just about anything.

That "more I talk, the less I know" feeling is not a bad thing. It's a natural consequence of attaining a greater understanding of Sierra. As time goes on, you'll fill the gaps in your knowledge and many of the fears that you have will be assuaged.

I'm in the same situation with my daughters. They don't know about Eryn because Mimi and I feel that the knowledge will make their lives more complicated. There is no need to burden them with the responsibility of keeping my secret. Eventually they will know, but by then they will be on their own and the knowledge will simply be an unimportant footnote in their life. I'm quite sure of that because both of them, like most intelligent young people, are quite tolerant of those whose lifestyles do not happen to match their own.

Thank you so much for your support of Sierra and for being here with us. You're a special lady!

Hugs, Eryn

danielle.cd

05-03-2012, 11:27 PM

write down what your needs are
write down what his needs are
what do u expect out of him and he u , that will clear alot of stuff up and u will be comunicating in a better way , this isnt just about cding
i work second shift so my wife and kids are asleep when i get home , wala time for me to dress for a few hours and she the kids dont have to be around it , may not always work for most people but thats our compremise ,
my wife didnt understand either when i told her i was giving it up and i care more about her than the cding then a few month later more stuff came backin the house , well then i had to go indepth about how many time i have tried to quit and then the urge hits again even stronger , and yes sometimes so strong that u think that u want to become a women. my wifes deal was if ur gana be spending our money on that stuff again and again and again then i would much rather u keep your stuff and ocasionally when its ok with her buy a new shirt or shoes on the cheep . i tried to give it up one time after we talked about this , and she was smart enought to hide the stuff that i had thrown away , about 300 or so dollars worth , for a couple of weeks and then bam it hit me again and i almost cried cause she new that i couldnt just give it up like that . so stuff like that is what u need to be willing to at least think about if u r gana make your marrage work
set rules for yourselfs that both of u can live with and dont just agree with them just because u want to get through a tuff time , cause then u just break your own rules and it all starts over
dont do the what ifs cause thats just playing games with your own emossions , further more u cant tell someone how to feel thats a person to person so if eventually they are angry then thats there feelings not yours ( learned that in marraige encounters) as long as your getting what u need and he gets what he needs out of it the focus really should turn to the kids at that point an what do they need school comes up really quickly and they need to be ready , hope that help u get started (ps whach that movie as soon as u can if u havent already it may help with your emotions and feelings)

ReineD

05-04-2012, 01:53 AM

Its frustrating and hurtful to think that our family isn't enough to fulfill the void in Sierra's life. I have to remind myself that its not that we are not enough, its that he doesn't know who he is yet. Some how I blame myself that this is my fault, If I was thinner, if I was prettier, if I could some how love him more.

It's not a question of filling a void in your husband's life, like over eating or drinking too much. It's a matter of having your husband express who he fundamentally is, a man whose gender identity is not like other men's.

This does not mean that your husband's gender identity is fully female either. Gender is a spectrum, not either/or male/female. Although the medical and psychiatric communities still do not know exactly why some people's gender identities are not fully or partially congruent with their birth sex, there is increasing evidence it is hard-wired, they were born this way. Men in our society are severely socialized to not be feminine (it's horrible for young boys to be called pansies, gay, or wusses by their peers), and so there is a great deal of repression of any feminine tendencies or characteristics. For most CDers, the need to express femininity begins at around puberty and it is highly sexual for them during the teenage years and early adulthood. During these years most CDers do not inherently feel "feminine", they just get off on wearing women's clothing. As they age, the sexual focus wears off and then begins the stages I've mentioned above, where there is a need to express femininity in other ways. Again, this does not mean they will transition. Only a very few transgenders are transsexual (the birth males who do feel from an early age they are in fact women born in the wrong bodies). Also, the majority of crossdressers are heterosexual. Some of them become so "enticed" by the prospect of feeling feminine they do fantasize being with men, but for the most part if they do try this, they realize it is not the men they are attracted to and they instead were seeking experiences to enhance their feelings of femininity. I'm speaking of the hetero CDers here ... obviously gay and bi CDers will not feel the same way.

The ideal situation for a heterosexual crossdresser would be to have an accepting wife who is willing to um ... see and embrace all aspects of her husband in the bedroom. But, this is daunting for many wives who are hetero, and so it can take years to get there, if ever. We always tell our FABs to not push themselves, to not do anything they feel uncomfortable with, else this will just make matters worse. But at the same time, to try to keep an open mind.

If you do decide to have a go at supporting your husband's CDing, please know that it will take some years for you to reach a point where you'll look back and say, "well, this wasn't as big a deal as I thought". So don't get discouraged and just talk, and talk, and talk some more, see if you can stretch a little in terms of not getting angry with your husband when he needs to dress (as long as it doesn't become an obsession). But other than this, do go at your own pace and always be honest with him about how you feel.

To Sierra, you'll need to respect how your wife feels and remember that it took YOU years before you could accept this in yourself. Your wife will also need time.

:hugs:

Silentpartner GG SO

05-04-2012, 03:21 AM

I believe that my SO and kids deserve better than me, but I do hope we can find some resolve. I would much rather temporarily seperate than divorce if it comes to it, but SO won't stay married if I don't live with her. With the CD, I've completely opened up to her -no hiding anything no matter what, so hopefully that will help. SO wants to sleep in seperate bedrooms for a while while I try CDing a bit. Since her "mom" is here, it makes it difficult to get dressed in the house, but we'll see how it all goes.

Sierra I am no expert but this statement sounds very much like someone who is definately in "pink fog"

with all the emotional turmoil that is happening to your wife, and the possibility of divorce, I am a little amazed that you are "trying CD'ing for a little bit" - I think that moving into seperate rooms is the start of a slippery slope to seperation and eventually divorce. It will be all too easy for you to just "do what you want" in terms of CD'ing and for your wife to pretend its just not happening. I cant imagine that scenario is going to benefit any of you, and pretty soon your children are going to wonder why mom and dad are not sleeping in the same bed/room.

Originally Posted by Mrs. G

Its frustrating and hurtful to think that our family isn't enough to fulfill the void in Sierra's life. I have to remind myself that its not that we are not enough, its that he doesn't know who he is yet. Some how I blame myself that this is my fault, If I was thinner, if I was prettier, if I could some how love him more.

Mrs G - I could have written this statement myself a few times - but its really not about how pretty or not you are - if you were an absolute goddess it wouldnt make any difference because the fault does not lie in you, there is nothing wrong with you.

Believe me, I am pretty accepting of my husband's CD'ing most of the time but there are boundaries which I will not accept him crossing - such as shaving body hair and no way can CD'ing ever come into our bedroom,. These things I am pretty rigid on, but even being accepting as I am, there are times when I sam alone in the house and maybe not having such a good day and I start thinking "what if..." and then the gloom sets in. You are a human being, a woman, with real feelings and emotions which you cannot turn off - and your feelings are not exclusive - there cant be many SO's that havent felt the way you do from time to time.
Come into the FAB section as soon as you can and then you can read about my story and others like us, and you will see how far some of us have come from when we first found out.

Its obvious from your willingness to join this forum and from your posts that you love yoiur husband and care deeply for his wellbeing - I sincerely hope that you can both find a compromise that suits both of your needs but this is not going to come without lots of talking, crying, laughing and compromise on both parts.

I'm sorry Sierra but your wife moving into another room so you can try CD'ing doesnt sound much of a compromise on your part - it just sounds like you getting
your own way and your wife getting the nasty end of the stick. She has already come a long way from when you originally posted but I dont really see much movement from you? maybe I'm just not understanding you right but this is never going to work if you bury your head in the sand and just hope it will sort itself out because it wont

Jenniferathome

05-04-2012, 12:12 PM

Thank you all again for your support in this situation. Its frustrating and hurtful to think that our family isn't enough to fulfill the void in Sierra's life.

Mrs G, this may seem strange but you and your kids have nothing to do with his crossdressing. he'd be crossdressing if he were single,a millionaire, retired, whatever. From the insiders view, there is no" void" at all. It's just a part of us. For me, it has always been there. I firmly believe it is genetic, like being gay. You did nothing to "cause" it or bring it out. It's just not about you. YOU are fine. The only fault I see is that your husband has not been turthfull, even after some discoveries of yours. THAT has to be addressed. It is important that you set boundaries for him that you can accept. Frankly, you husband should have no say in what you can accept. The only thing you can't demand is that he "stop" because that is just not possible. I highly recommend talking frequently. Make notes if needed so that your discussion doesn't simply get over emotional. But talk, that's the only solution to your comfort. Good luck.

Mrs. G

05-04-2012, 02:40 PM

I am beginning to sound like a broken record but I cant help but say thank you again. There is no way to express how much I appreciate everyone's support and words, they help more than you may ever know.

I called it a void because that is partially how my So described it to me, that the other fetish stuff he tried was filling a void, of what? He didn't know at the time. I believe and I think he does as well that i was the void of CD'ing. I am certain that everyone's idea that he is in a heavy fog to be correct. He had said that until we can talk more begin to make some progress that he wanted to put everything on hold for a while. We both want to find a compromise and set boundaries. He is having such a difficult time with this and it hurts that he cant stop asking and pushing for more. He stated to me last night, after asking to put on my makeup, that he didn't know how to stop pushing for more? is this typical of the Fog as well, it seems to consume every spare thought and minute he has. I keep reminding myself that he doesn't mean to be hurtful and he never follows through because he knows we still haven't gotten there yet.

Is there anything I can do to help him through this fog so we can come to an agreement that fulfills him, where I can still be comfortable and know that there are limits we both agreed to set.

Thank you and big hugs back to all of you!:hugs:

kimdl93

05-04-2012, 03:36 PM

Remember that the term pink fog is simply a descriptive for a wide range of behaviors. It is not a exactinng, clinical diagnosis. Its possible that your SO has obsessive -compulsive disorder. These can become so severe as to impact on judgement and contribute toself destructive behaviors. OCD is treatable.

Bear in mind that treating OCD won't cure being transgendered but it may make it easier for your SO and youto find a comfortable balance.

sierra_g

05-04-2012, 04:44 PM

SO and I talked a bit about her post. I believe there is fog, but I don't know how much. Enough that I have a hard time seeing past it. I feel that I am slowly rising above it, but I don't know for sure. While thinking/daydreaming/dreaming about CD does occupy some of my time, I do not think about it every waking moment. I would say my thoughts are more focused on work, family, money, and things needing to be done. This definitely does not take precedence, and I don't think I obsess over it.
Just wanted to clarify the best I could.

ReineD

05-04-2012, 05:43 PM

Is there anything I can do to help him through this fog so we can come to an agreement that fulfills him, where I can still be comfortable and know that there are limits we both agreed to set.

Yes, although it might seem a little clinical. But it isn't really, it's more a communication tool. And the two of you only need to do this for a couple of weeks while this is all new. :)

Looking at your post #131, and Sierra's post #133, I suggest you print this out:

http://pbskids.org/itsmylife/images/weekly_planner.gif

Fill in the major blocks of time of all the priorities (draw boxes around them): work, household stuff, kids, necessary outings, etc. Shade those in lightly with any color, say red. You will be left with leisure time. Draw boxes around the times when there is nothing planned. Since you both need time alone without the CDing, plus Sierra does need time to CD, decide between the two of you just one week at a time, when would be good times to do both. Then shade the "together non-CDing" time one color, say green, and the "CDing time" a different color, say yellow (I wouldn't use pink. lol). You don't need to stick to these blocks of time to the letter, stuff happens, but the idea is to get an "image" of how much time there really is that is devoted to the CDing.

Remember, this isn't a race to see who gets the most time. You should EACH keep in mind, above all else, your partner's needs and try to approach this with your best face forward.

When the week is done, get together again, discuss how you felt about the division of time, what might be changed or improved *from both points of view* (what worked, what didn't, and why) and draw up the following week.

You really won't need to do this for very long, just until you're both on the same page with the amount of time to allocate to this (new for you, Mrs. G) activity.

To Sierra: now is the time when you will need to understand more than ever, that your wife likely feels more fragile in your relationship than ever before. You need to do what you can to reassure her that you still are very much interested in being her husband, even if you do CD. Your wife is on a sharp learning curve right now with something that you've been living with for years. Please don't forget this. The less stressed and rushed she feels right now, the better it will be for both of you in the long run. She needs to learn to trust that the CDing will not take her husband away.

:hugs:

Jacqueline Winona

05-04-2012, 11:28 PM

sierra_g

05-06-2012, 12:55 AM

Not sure whether this will work or not, Mrs. G and Sierra, but maybe just indulging for a day in eveyrthing feminine, in some big event away from home where dressing will be socially acceptable, but not something Mrs. G would be embarrassed with, will let you know what you're dealing with. I speak from personal experience on this- sometimes a CD needs to get exactly what she needs, to realize that being a CD doesn't mean you don't like being a he as well. Experience it, live it, then when it's over you're ready to get back to filling your male role. this will only work if you're truly a CD and not TS, but once you go through it, realize just how much time and effort it takes to look right, then realize just how much your wife and family need you as a husband and father, it might hit you that you don't need crossdressing to be more than a part-time thing.

I personally think that if this happened, I would be in Heaven. It wouldn't work well for her. I don't have a lot of fear of what strangers might think. Way less than my SO. It is mainly a fear of what friends and family might think. Example: I am a horrible singer, but LOVE karaoke. I don't worry too much because I don't know them. I am sure that my CDing would be the same. Giving me a full day of heavy fem stuff all day would push the pink even more. I would hate to see the monster I would become. A day or two with overly macho fun guy things would do much more for her, IMHO. Right now, we don't have the $$ to dress me up and take me out anyway. We need it for bills and necessities a bit more.
Thank you for the idea though. :D

Jenniferathome

05-06-2012, 09:05 PM

Jacqueline Winona

05-06-2012, 09:34 PM

There are a couple of old adages, Jennifer: 1) Be careful what you wish for , you might just get it, and 2) The best way to kill curiosity is to give someone exactly what they (think) they want. When nothing else is working, you got to think outside the box a little, there just isn't one answer for everyone, in every situation. I can tell my kid for months that she isn't going to like being a vegetarian because she won't like all the protein substitutes she will need to be healthy, but until she gets a plate of tofu the message isn't going to be understood. I am well aware of how difficult this situation is for Mrs. G , and how she wishes it would just go away. But Sierra isn't seeing the big picture, and I'm not sure Sierra will until she sees that getting what she thinks she wants isn't worth missing out on being a husband and dad.

ReineD

05-06-2012, 10:32 PM

Not sure whether this will work or not, Mrs. G and Sierra, but maybe just indulging for a day in eveyrthing feminine,..."

Wow, I have to comment that this is a horrible idea. Right up there with, "Let's take a ride on the Hindenburg." This just reinforces that it's all about Sierra. It's not. Any couple needs to start with a conversation about what may or may not be acceptable to the wife/girlfriend/SO. Dressing, to whatever extent comes later.

Mrs. G, I agree with Jennifer. It doesn't look as if you're ready for a girly day and this is not just about your husband.

Although it's wonderful to get advice from everyone in the open forums and many people are sensitive to your overall relationship situation, there are members who do see things more from the CDer's point of view.

Kate T

05-07-2012, 12:54 AM

Mrs G and Sierra

I told my wife of 15 years around 16 months ago about CD'ing. We have 3 kids and are pretty close. She doesn't have a problem if I dress around her but not around the kids and we don't go out locally. Our CD'ing is possibly similar to what Reine describes for her partner but earlier (only been out a few times shopping, concert and stuff).

From what I have read you have got the whole pink fog thing going on. I did it as Reine said, soon after telling spouse (breaking out of 2nd closet). Everyone does. What you need to do Sierra is take a good long hard look at yourself and work out what is relevant and what isn't. To give you an example when in the pink fog I would get my chest and underarms waxed, paint my toenails, have clear polish and tried to grow my fingernails longer, tried wearing mascara, light foundation and a neutral lipstick / lip gloss. Well after a little bit (a few weeks) and also a swift kick up the behind from my wife reminding me about the "pink fog" I dropped most of the stuff. I still do wax chest and underarms regularly, I rarely paint my toenails (haven't done for 2-3 months), and even rarer still I might put on a smidgen of mascara if going out somewhere. The other stuff though is just, whatever. I'm not obsessed by it either way. Yes I do do the whole lot if going out girl mode so to speak.

One thing I would say (though PLEASE do not take this as a recommendation or that you should do it) is that after going out for the first time (i.e. Reines 3rd closet) and no one really pointing going "ew, freak" I actually found the pink fog thing less of an issue. It was like "oh, OK, I can do that and turn that switch on when I want to" so I became less obsessed about trying to be "feminine" on a "daily" basis. (NB: I am also fairly self confident so I pretty much came out of closet 4, i.e. interacting with people, at the same time as closet 3, i.e. just going out).

It sounds to me like you guys need to really sit down and have a good talk and work out some agreed common ground and some agreed boundaries. There needs to be give and take from both sides and there will be some things that work and others that don't. As always the key really is communication.

Babeba

05-07-2012, 10:27 AM

Sierra, mrs. G,

I just want to be able to grab you both up, give you a big hug, and reassure you that it'll be alright. I can't do any of that, though... We're too far away for the hug and I don't want to lie that things look stressful.

Sierra, I want to point out that if you do divorce, you move out and the marriage is over, that does NOT in your case mean free reign with dressing. You have two young children, and Mrs. G has a right to input on the things they are exposed to. I think she would probably have an issue (given how fetishistic your dressing is, at least at the moment) with her kids being around that. Given where you live, a divorce court would highly favour you supporting your family financially; I think without access to your wife's makeup and such, with little money to support yourself, you probably would have fewer opportunities to dress and do makeup. Divorce will not end your relationship, you will still have to know each other. The people who live upstairs from me separated about four months ago, and because they weren't fighting loudly about it in the house, I didn't realize it. I honestly think they may communicate more now with each other because they have to talk about who's doing what with the kids and who's taking them when.

I really wish you both the best, I wish you to have good communication, and I wish you to have peace. I don't wish for you to feel resentful of each other though I can see where it comes from with the way Mrs. G has discovered things, it takes time and effort to build up trust.

One thing that kind of strikes me as different from many older members on here is how large a role the Internet has played in this... I'm a pretty well read person who has grown up with the Internet, too, and I had never heard of Gynosupremacy before. Forced fem, gs, sub, AB, AB/DL... How much of this would you have thought of trying without the Internet, Sierra? What of this is REALLY you? I kind of feel like you need to put labels out of your mind and own yourself. How much of your free time goes to Internet? How much do you spend truly thinking about things and putting down your own thoughts and concepts?

Now, you don't know me from Adam, I'm not a counsellor, but I would like to suggest a couple of things. I think that, outside of work and using this forum FOR SUPPORT, that you both should abstain from the Internet for a while. Read books, not blogs. Play games with each other, not online. Stop using code words like gymosupremacy and even CD. Use more words to describe what you feel or think to each other.

Also, mrs. G, I recall Sierra mentioning something about you being on some prescription drug and trying to switch to an herbal variety instead... Please see your doctor about this! Herbal does not mean 'safe' or 'effective' or 'no side effects'. The reasons why you need that medication are not going to be less valid because the drug is herbal, and I don't want you to hurt yourself. Besides couple therapy, and focusing that on your husband's issues, YOU are an important voice and important person here. It's not right or healthy for even you needing help for you to revolve around him like this.

sierra_g

05-07-2012, 12:23 PM

Update: We are pushing our marriage counseling back a week or 2. I found a gender therapist that also does marriage counseling. We are going to go to her instead.

What you said...

Adina,
Thank you, I am very quickly figuring out what is pink fog and what isn't. It is amazing how it is becoming more clear to me. We have truly been working on this.

At the moment, my chest is shaved, my fingernails are growing out, and my SO painted my toes pink with sparkles. She doesn't love them, but she is ok with them as long as I wear socks in front of everyone else. She really is trying. In exchange, I am attempting to mention everything a lot less. I think it is working ok.

Going out en femme is still a long ways out, but after talking, it may be a possibility one day.

What you said...

Babeba,
I do totally understand that. We have already talked. No matter what, the kids aren't allowed to know until they are adults. If we were to get a divorce, I would give support for the kids, but I don't make enough to support our kids and her. She would need to seek employment. It would be tough, but we would figure it all out. I love her and would never let her fall on her face like that. I would want to stay friends with her, and even if she didn't I would still make the attempt. For now though, I think we are going to try to stick it out. This weekend has really helped us, I think.

As for the internet and the fetish stuff, I am a web designer. I build websites. My income is on the internet. Everything I was into, or thought I was into, or anything else stems from the entire Female Domination aspect. It was me attempting to fill a hole in my life. GS, FF, and AB all are very wifeled. I believe that women are the dominant sex of the species. Even when womend didn't get a say in the world, they still controlled their husband's vote and changed his mind. Women have been running the world from the back seat for thousands of years. Now, they are finally respected and are beginning to rise above the men. /soapbox

My wife and I agree that all those, and even some other stuff, was filling a hole that was created the day I first put CD on the shelf (about 16 years ago). My desire for the pink is finally getting fulfilled and I must say I am finding myself genuinely happy (almost the same happy I get from my family and friends) when in any sort of girl mode. When I first posted in this thread, and quite a few posts later, I was kind of happy like ecstasy(MDMA). Not genuine. Lately, as the cloud has lifted a bit, we are finding our happy place. We are slowly trying to find a nice middle ground.

Also, the herbal is a sleeping pill, and is replacing Ambian. The herbal, if we can get it to work, is way better for her system. Thank you for the concern though.

Babeba

05-07-2012, 01:07 PM

sierra_g

05-07-2012, 01:13 PM

I have looked into that theory. I had CD tendencies long before I had GS feelings though, so IMHO, I think they are a lucky combination, so to speak.

ReineD

05-07-2012, 02:58 PM

Everything I was into, or thought I was into, or anything else stems from the entire Female Domination aspect. It was me attempting to fill a hole in my life. GS, FF, and AB all are very wifeled. I believe that women are the dominant sex of the species. Even when womend didn't get a say in the world, they still controlled their husband's vote and changed his mind. Women have been running the world from the back seat for thousands of years.

Although I won't get into a discussion with you in this thread as to who has been running the world throughout our history (:p), I read in your words a lot of sexual motives, or if you will, sexual fetish. This is common among CDers who have not expressed their femininity either because they were not able to give themselves permission, or they felt constrained by their families or society at large. So yes, the sexual expression becomes an "acceptable" way to express femininity since men are sexual creatures, and this is likely why you feel or felt you were filling a void. You were filling it with sexual practices because you didn't know anything else.

If you carefully read the thousands of threads in this forum, you'll see that sexual urges diminish the more a CDer knocks down his closet walls and discovers he is not filling a void but rather is seeking to express who he fundamentally is.

Or, not wanting to put you in any box since I have no real clue what motivates you, there is also the possibility this is strictly sexual fetish for you or a sexual compulsion that really has nothing to do with the expression of an alternative gender identity. I'm glad that you'll be looking into this with a professional and that you and your wife will be doing this together. It can't go anywhere but up from here.

:hugs:

Mrs. G

05-08-2012, 02:09 AM

Ambien is not a drug that should be taken without close doctor supervision - going on OR coming off. Mrs. G, please PLEASE see your doctor about it and talk to them or your pharmacist about the herbal alternative you are planning to take and how it may interact with your system or any other drugs you are taking. Herbal medicine is still medicine, it has a bad side as well as a good side just like any other drug. The Dr. That prescribed is no longer a Dr. we see he informed my Family Practitioner that I am on it to help sleep. I have talked to my FP and he simply stated that I should continue on it until the other Dr. takes me off. I reminded him that said Dr. was no longer a Dr. that I see. At that point my FP sent me in for a sleep study and other testing. It has become a problem that I can no longer sleep naturally I have been on the ambien to long. My FP said he isn't certain what to do until I can get into see another Psychiatrist who can say how to get off them. it has been a long trying process all on its own. thank you for your concern though.
also+

I think that, outside of work and using this forum FOR SUPPORT, that you both should abstain from the Internet for a while. Read books, not blogs. Play games with each other, not online. Stop using code words like gyno-supremacy and even CD. Use more words to describe what you feel or think to each other. I would LOVE to be able to do this. However as Sierra said he work is the web, and unfortunately in between job assignments and waiting on feedback for his boss, he spends those few minutes surfing the web and ect. I think it would benefit us to put a stop to it after his business hours for both of us. It makes me sad to realize our marriage was what you described not even a few years ago. We talk all the time about nothing, we played board games and video games together. Tv and internet had very little place in our marriage then and has since become the crutch I think we BOTH lean on. I miss the days before.

Danielle cd

ps watch that movie as soon as u can if u haven't already it may help with your emotions and feelings
We haven't been able to find the movie to watch it but we have been researching it and discovered it was based on then book "Love Dare". We found the Klove website has all forty days listed, so until we can afford the movie and book we have started what Klove has available. Thank you again for suggesting it.

Mrs. G

05-08-2012, 02:12 AM

In the mean time all I can say is I am anxious to go the therapist with Sierra, and have been trying to absorb and understand as much as I can so we can come to a middle ground. I just pray it is enough to keep Sierra happy and with us. More updates when I am not so emotionally and physically drain. thank you all!

WifeofWrenchette

05-08-2012, 04:01 AM

Well one more post Mrs. G and you can join FAB. We will help you through this (if you want). We are here for you.

Babeba

05-08-2012, 08:25 AM

Mrs. G,

I'm sorry to hear about the confusion with your dr. who is no longer a dr.; that's just not fun all ways round, especially with your FP not feeling prepared to change things. Did you make it clear that you would be doing this on your own, anyway? Some advice medically is better than none.

Also, if the herbal alternative you are going to use is st. John's Wort, you should know just in case that it decreases effectiveness of hormonal types of birth control! I don't know if that is an issue for you, but on the slim chance it's important to know that.

Fixing a relationship and keeping it good isn't a matter of a grand gesture and voila! It's good - a relationship takes time, nurturing and small things quite often. I don't know about you folks, but I have long, fine hair that floats all over the place - and when I am unlucky it tangles BIG in the back. The only way to deal with the big problem (in my hair's case the big bird nest, in this case the issues in your marriage) is by slowly and gently starting with the easy stuff, getting it all smoothed out and fixed so it doesn't become an issue again, and working the way to the big stuff which usually is more manageable without all the little side snarls.

Sierra, I like that Mrs. G has taken my suggestion and changed it to something she thinks is a more manageable step for you both. Is it something you could live with trying for a week? Business hours only Internet, then trying to spend time together afterward?

I have a great homemade play dough recipe I bet your daughters would LOVE (at least the oldest!) it's all edible in case it ends up in tiny mouths. It might be a fun thing to spend an evening with as a family together. You could all have your own colour and make a game of how you share them to make things.

sierra_g

05-08-2012, 09:25 AM

Fixing a relationship and keeping it good isn't a matter of a grand gesture and voila! It's good - a relationship takes time, nurturing and small things quite often. I don't know about you folks, but I have long, fine hair that floats all over the place - and when I am unlucky it tangles BIG in the back. The only way to deal with the big problem (in my hair's case the big bird nest, in this case the issues in your marriage) is by slowly and gently starting with the easy stuff, getting it all smoothed out and fixed so it doesn't become an issue again, and working the way to the big stuff which usually is more manageable without all the little side snarls.

Sierra, I like that Mrs. G has taken my suggestion and changed it to something she thinks is a more manageable step for you both. Is it something you could live with trying for a week? Business hours only Internet, then trying to spend time together afterward?

I have a great homemade play dough recipe I bet your daughters would LOVE (at least the oldest!) it's all edible in case it ends up in tiny mouths. It might be a fun thing to spend an evening with as a family together. You could all have your own colour and make a game of how you share them to make things.

Yes, I am sure we could. I have already pulled myself away from looking at those types of sites. Anymore, THIS is the most risque site I go to, lol. I realized a while ago that those sites are unhealthy for us. I had a hard time for a while, but I finally broke free of their grip and I hope to never go back. It has been over 2 weeks and I don't crave it any longer.

Also, we are excellent at the easy stuff. We are pretty awesome at the tough stuff. The problem lies in the CD/TS area and the unknown future with it. Our biggest problem is that I don't know how far it goes and where my line is. I cannot honestly say that one day I will not want HRT. Right now, and for the next few years I can guarantee her that I can live by these rules, but I don't know the future, and I haven't found a uncomfortable place with it yet, but we haven't done much with it.

For the play dough recipe, my mom used to make that stuff for us. I keep waiting for the ok, but since it uses food coloring, I think it will have to be an outdoor fun time. Gotta get a bit warmer first.

(also for SO's Dr. He is still a Dr, he still practices, just not on her or I. We are going to go to a new one that is highly recommended.

This is the herbal alternative http://www.walmart.com/ip/Nature-Made-Natural-Sleep-Aid-Liquid-Softgels-30ct/15556063
Thank you Babeba.

ReineD

05-08-2012, 10:19 AM

Right now, and for the next few years I can guarantee her that I can live by these rules, but I don't know the future, and I haven't found a uncomfortable place with it yet, but we haven't done much with it.

Saying this is meaningless until you've actually gotten into a routine of going out and being Sierra with people. Until then, everything is pretty much an unexpressed fantasy, and since it is unexpressed it can know no bounds.

Getting into a routine takes hard work. You have to decide what you're going to do about 5 o'clock shadow, bushy eyebrows, your hair, your nails. You need a working wardrobe that blends into the places you'll be going to, such as malls, casual restaurants, etc (not the fantasy wear that many CDers start out with). You'll need not over the top shoes and a purse. You'll need to work on eliminating guy mannerisms in your walk and your movements if you have them. You'll need to learn how to soften your voice. You'll need to find a way you can leave your house and return to it safely if you don't want your kids and the neighbors to know. It would be nice for you to find regular places to go to (my SO has a dozen or so places: coffee shops, restaurants, favorite shops, etc where the people know him and talk to him).

All of this takes a year or two, if you will do this slowly and not go overboard to accomplish this in three months, which can bring with it a major pink fog as well. After you've been at it for a few years and you've experienced a regular life while presenting as a woman, after it has become old hat, then you can more realistically make an assessment as to whether or not you think you'd like to present as a woman full time.

sierra_g

05-08-2012, 11:08 AM

Saying this is meaningless until you've actually gotten into a routine of going out and being Sierra with people. Until then, everything is pretty much an unexpressed fantasy, and since it is unexpressed it can know no bounds.

All of this takes a year or two, if you will do this slowly and not go overboard to accomplish this in three months, which can bring with it a major pink fog as well. After you've been at it for a few years and you've experienced a regular life while presenting as a woman, after it has become old hat, then you can more realistically make an assessment as to whether or not you think you'd like to present as a woman full time.

EXACTLY!!!

That is why I unfortunately cannot make a decision with this and give her an honest answer. I honestly do not know.
As for figuring out outfits, to be honest, I'd rather wear some cute sandals, jeans, and a blouse than run around in some of the skimpy stuff I've seen on here. I love the styles that Zooey Deschanel wears on New Girl. Those would all be great as well. Some of the outfits that I see in the pictures section on here would give me perma-blush. All the other parts are in process at least a little bit. I use Magic on my face, my wife plucks my eyebrows, I've always had a little bit of a lesbian hairstyle, etc. I don't go en femme too much. If it is something that is going to scream girl, I won't do it for the sake of my wife (shaving legs/pits, ears pierced, total fem haircut, etc). We are trying to go with as little of it as we can for now. I am working on not pushing it.

Right now, I am 33. I know there is still plenty of time, and I know that we won't be living here forever. I don't mind being confined to our section of the house when dressed, but I just can't guarantee that it will be ok forever and I promised I wouldn't lie to her, no matter what. For the sake of us, I can only hope for the best and take it one day/one week/one month at a time.

ReineD

05-08-2012, 11:43 AM

Sierra, not to put a damper on things, but you should reserve the presentation details for the Beauty & Fashion sections, and keep the focus of this thread on your relationship and how you and your wife will grow together with this, all the while respecting your wife's need to have time to take it all in.

Not that I'm being overly strict right now about posting topics in the right section (this is your thread and a general discussion on whether you plan to blend or not does come into it), but getting into the details here almost seems a little pink foggish, as if this is more important to you than your current relationship issues or your wife's feelings.

sierra_g

05-08-2012, 12:00 PM

Point taken. Sorry. :D

danielle.cd

05-09-2012, 01:27 AM

EXACTLY!!!

That is why I unfortunately cannot make a decision with this and give her an honest answer. I honestly do not know.
As for figuring out outfits, to be honest, I'd rather wear some cute sandals, jeans, and a blouse than run around in some of the skimpy stuff I've seen on here. I love the styles that Zooey Deschanel wears on New Girl. Those would all be great as well. Some of the outfits that I see in the pictures section on here would give me perma-blush. All the other parts are in process at least a little bit. I use Magic on my face, my wife plucks my eyebrows, I've always had a little bit of a lesbian hairstyle, etc. I don't go en femme too much. If it is something that is going to scream girl, I won't do it for the sake of my wife (shaving legs/pits, ears pierced, total fem haircut, etc). We are trying to go with as little of it as we can for now. I am working on not pushing it.

Right now, I am 33. I know there is still plenty of time, and I know that we won't be living here forever. I don't mind being confined to our section of the house when dressed, but I just can't guarantee that it will be ok forever and I promised I wouldn't lie to her, no matter what. For the sake of us, I can only hope for the best and take it one day/one week/one month at a time.

seriosly . come on at the alter u didnt him and haw about the future and if u would be getting divorced some day or not . dont make it that hard for her or yourself , noone one knows anything about what the future holds you may get hit by a car or truck tomorrow . , ive been here since 2007 and if feels like yesterday and in some of my other post i say i want to have this and that done soon . now look five years later and wow nothing but my outlook has changed with the exeption of laser treatment , so with your girls growing up money issues and other things that pop up, be realistic and choose what u want, sounds to me like u just want a back up plan in case u choose wrong, well sorry cant have your cake and eat it too , if u can live with your rules now as they are do it, and if later on down the road it changes for u hay maybe u both will have a better understanding of who u both are an what your life is really about. ps if u want that movie pm me so i can send it too u

ReineD

05-09-2012, 04:07 AM

Point taken. Sorry. :D

No need to apologize here! It's Mrs. G I was thinking about. :)

Janelle_C

05-09-2012, 11:11 AM

I'm a little late on my two cents worth, but here it is. I agree with ReineD that we can get very confused about what we ultimately want. I've been CDing most of my thirty years of marriage with my wife knowing. I was busy working and raising kids so I didn't dress that much but it was always on the back of my mind. When I retired I started to dress every chance I got. I started to feel more feminine even when I wasn't en femme. I found this site and started therapy with my wifes support. I started to feel like I was running toward being more and more feminine and my wife who has always been supportive of my Cding at home started to get scared. We have had at lot of teared filled talks, but we do talk. I realized that I got all caught in my self acceptance and and for the first time not being ashamed of my self, and this is just me. And I know this is just me but I don't who just me is yet. I have realized that I need to slow down not just for my wife but also for me. I realize that this a journey to find my self not a race. I'm going to a gender therapist, and when my wife and I are ready we will go together to my therapist or another gender therapist as a couple. All I can suggest is that you don't give up, time is what is needed and lots of talking. My best wishes to the both of you Janelle

sierra_g

05-09-2012, 11:26 AM

seriosly . come on at the alter u didnt him and haw about the future and if u would be getting divorced some day or not . dont make it that hard for her or yourself , noone one knows anything about what the future holds you may get hit by a car or truck tomorrow . , ive been here since 2007 and if feels like yesterday and in some of my other post i say i want to have this and that done soon . now look five years later and wow nothing but my outlook has changed with the exeption of laser treatment , so with your girls growing up money issues and other things that pop up, be realistic and choose what u want, sounds to me like u just want a back up plan in case u choose wrong, well sorry cant have your cake and eat it too , if u can live with your rules now as they are do it, and if later on down the road it changes for u hay maybe u both will have a better understanding of who u both are an what your life is really about. ps if u want that movie pm me so i can send it too u

You are absolutely right, I could be hit by a car, the Yellowstone Super Volcano could blow and kill us all, Mrs G could've left me for a circus performer, or any number of things. Nobody knows. I wasn't getting at a broad term "you never know" as much as a more pointed "I don't know where the road ends until I walk a bit further." I have no idea. I am horrible at making decisions about little things like what to wear and where to get lunch. Making decisions that I have to live with for the rest of my life, especially without 100% of the information, is incredibly difficult for me. I am wrong a lot, and would hate to be 10 years into it and realize that I made the wrong decision. Then I have regret and am unhappy and depressed. Not good.

This is part of the reason I am happy I am going to be able to see a gender therapist/marriage counselor. We need to get this figured out no matter the circumstances. I am out of ideas and I think Mrs G is too. We've gotten quite a few good ideas from all of you, and the more ideas (good or bad) the better.

Only time will tell.

kimdl93

05-09-2012, 11:29 AM

....Only time will tell.

Remember, Sierra, that you aren't a passenger on this journey. You and your wife share the controls and chose the destination. In other words, you make choices and take actions. That freedom comes with responsibility to those who depend upon you.

sierra_g

05-09-2012, 01:02 PM

Yeah.
Time with the therapist, time in dress, time talking, etc. That time.

Mrs. G

05-10-2012, 12:24 AM

Hooray for the 10th post. I have been having a few particularly hard days the last few days and therefore have not been so active, please pardon the fact that this post is 99% me making a tenth post so I can join the Fab forum and be able to PM a couple of you. Thanks

sierra_g

05-10-2012, 12:34 AM

Message to all who have been helping us. Thank you.
My wife just called me on something (thank you!) that I was not aware of and I feel horrible and rather embarrassed by it. She said that she thinks I am coming across as a Caddy B. I am underhanded, and I am not nice in my replies.
I would like to definitely apologize to you all from the bottom of my heart. I am sorry.
When I reply, I write, read, edit, reread, etc. until I have a message that gets my point across and in my head sounds friendly. Apparently it isn't.
She also thinks I am trying to gain popularity at the expense of others. I am not attempting that either, at least not consciously.

Reine, Kim, Danielle, Polly, Mandy, Babeba, Jennifer, Janice, Sandra, my wife, and anyone and everyone else that has been helping me, please don't take offense to how I am coming across. I am not meaning to be caddy, or a B. If I upset you, please call me on it, PM me or something. Whatever. rub my nose in my mistakes so I learn (horrible visual, eww!).

Thank you to all of you. ♥

Soriya

05-10-2012, 05:24 PM

Hiya Sierra and Miss G.

I have been following this thread along and first off I want to commend both you and Miss G for embarking on this massive challenge to figure things out. I don't read every post on here but for me, this is the first one I have seen both the husband and wife working together on here. I am sure there have been lots more.

I personally don't feel you have come across as caddy or a 'B'. Sure some examples of the Pink Fog but overall I have found your posts to be truthful and forthcoming as they can be. I say can be because you are in an unknown situation and your emotions just as Miss G's are all over the place. There isn't much I can offer in terms of advice as Reine has covered most of it already, she is a wealth of information and has been the most direct and concise. Before I say anything else, please allow me to state that I cannot know what it feels like to be going through what you are in terms of dealing with this with a significant other since I have never had to deal with my own CD'ing in that fashion. What I can offer as far as experience is my own CD'ing.

This is a very scary time for both of you, obviously! For Miss G because this is all new to her, your kids, will she lose her husband, and so forth. For you, besides the effect this has on your family, it's really scary because you are trying to figure out who you are and what CD'ing means to you. For any human being, I believe the hardest thing anyone of us can do is to look within ourselves. Most people avoid this because they don't like what they see thus they avoid it and continue through life based on their belief system which has been built off all their past experiences and for the most part, the experiences people pull from within their belief system are the bad ones. As hard as this is for the both of you, you are both taking on as I said before, possibly the hardest challenge anyone can take. Always remember that the hardest challenges yield the greatest rewards, even if those rewards are not apparent right away.

For me, CD'ing has become mostly an after thought now. I took on the challenge of figuring it out a couple years ago and after some time, I came to a place of peace as to what it is to me, why I did it, and where it started. Nowadays it's evolved into a hobby that takes place maybe a few times a year at most when I'm bored and purely from an artistic point of view as being an artist myself, I find watching the transformation in the mirror fascinating.

Please, the both of you, feel free to PM me, I am more the happy to share with you my history and what I have learned with this. Who knows, maybe something in my story will spark something for you. Even though I have a CD history, I am rather neutral on the subject as I have a different view of all things most don't.

sierra_g

05-11-2012, 11:39 AM

I appreciate the kind words. It has definitely been a rollercoaster. What amazes me is that while it has been in our lives a little bit here and there for the past few years, it has really flared up over the past month. I cannot believe how it has effected us. I cannot imagine doing this fight for 5 or 10 years like some do. If it is that way, then so be it. It just seems like a tough road to go down. Hopefully seeing the therapist will get us headed in the right direction. This site has hurt about as much as it has helped, but at least the truth is getting out there. That is a plus, no matter what.

Polly Sharp

05-11-2012, 07:30 PM

Message to all who have been helping us. Thank you.
That's why we are here, to help each other.

My wife just called me on something (thank you!) that I was not aware of and I feel horrible and rather embarrassed by it. She said that she thinks I am coming across as a Caddy B. I am underhanded, and I am not nice in my replies.
Not that I've been aware of. Everyone has their own way of writing and discussing things. If that is how you 'speak' here then that's just you. I don't want to say it's unfair of your wife to say that, it's her opinion and she's entitled to it. It does not mean that everyone will agree with her opinion.

Although you both have issues to discuss, it's not the end of the world. At least you are talking to each other, and trying to get answers to questions. They may not be the answers that you wanted or expected, but that is because so many people, all good intentioned, will have their own ideas of how to answer.

ReineD

05-12-2012, 01:37 AM

What amazes me is that while it has been in our lives a little bit here and there for the past few years, it has really flared up over the past month. I cannot believe how it has effected us. I cannot imagine doing this fight for 5 or 10 years like some do. If it is that way, then so be it.

No one can live well and fight about something for 5 or 10 years. The trick is to reach a compromise, and this means that both of you will need to give a little. Sierra, while I appreciate that it has escalated for you big time in the past month, it sounds as if you're saying that unless your wife comes on board with you 100% you're outa there? Is this what "so be it" means? It might well take take your wife longer than you hope, before she catches up to you. You've known or have felt tendencies for years now, and this is all pretty much new to her.

Sorry if I'm misreading your "so be it", if so I apologize. But a relationship between a CDer and a GG who has difficulty with the CDing can only survive if they both are patient with each other while they both stretch. She stretches to try to understand her husband's needs, and he stretches by slowing things down until she has caught up.

sierra_g

05-12-2012, 11:52 AM

...it sounds as if you're saying that unless your wife comes on board with you 100% you're outa there? Is this what "so be it" means? It might well take take your wife longer than you hope, before she catches up to you. You've known or have felt tendencies for years now, and this is all pretty much new to her.

Sorry if I'm misreading your "so be it", if so I apologize. But a relationship between a CDer and a GG who has difficulty with the CDing can only survive if they both are patient with each other while they both stretch. She stretches to try to understand her husband's needs, and he stretches by slowing things down until she has caught up.

Actually quite the opposite. I am saying that if it is 5 or 10 years of fighting, then that is what we will do. We will weather the storm the best we can until one of us buckles. Hopefully that won't happen.

Yesterday, she told me that Sierra mode is turned on 100% and my guy mode is gone. I attempted guy mode last night with our friends over, but once the Tequila came out, it was over. It was just in the words I used and my mannerisms. No voice or appearance changes. We had a long talk before I fell asleep and we cried a lot and I talked a lot without barriers. Tequila does that. I don't remember exactly what was said, but it was my overall true feelings so nothing too horrible should come of it.

ReineD

05-12-2012, 01:48 PM

Actually quite the opposite. I am saying that if it is 5 or 10 years of fighting, then that is what we will do. We will weather the storm the best we can until one of us buckles. Hopefully that won't happen.

Sorry for misunderstanding. I'm glad I checked though, since you wife reads this thread. :)

Mrs. G

05-14-2012, 08:14 PM

Sorry for such a delayed response to our thread, I needed a couple of days to clear my head and talk with my SO. Wednesday we have our first therapy session. In the past few days we have had quite a few long, very difficult talks. I think we both hoped to have been able to find a middle ground by now. The tension between us gets stronger and stronger. We have both been walking on eggshells. I am trying to be comfortable and supportive of finding some time for Sierra to be able to dress. This is particularly hard and uncomfortable for me but I know he needs to be able to have some expression of himself. I still am not ready for it to be to frequent yet but I am trying to work on it. He has begun shaving his chest and stomach, and would love to shave more but knows I am uncomfortable with such. It is a constant reminder already to feel the stubble on his chest. I have been looking to post in other areas to be able to complete my 10 required posts to join FAB. I am afraid however that my SO and I's situation makes me a little Jaded in answering any other thread. Thank you all for your concern and continued support of both of us.

ReineD

05-15-2012, 12:08 AM

I am afraid however that my SO and I's situation makes me a little Jaded in answering any other thread.

It's OK, you're allowed to have your feelings. Post away!

Silentpartner GG SO

05-15-2012, 04:09 AM

Well it doesnt sound to me as though Sierra is doing much stretching - shaving chest and stomach is not what I'd call "slowing things done" - many wives and SO's find the shaving bit very hard to take - even the accepting ones. It's just too much of a 24/7 reminder of the CD'ing. It may not seem such a big deal with the guy but it can be a very big deal to the wife.

Mrs G - dont feel you have to hold back on how you feel - this is what this site is all about, having somewhere where you can air your feelings and not worry about what people think - all the GG's here have been through this in one way or another - we empathise with you. I really hope you can find your way into the FAB forum -

Sandra

05-15-2012, 04:35 AM

sierra_g

05-15-2012, 11:03 AM

I'm sorry but what I have read on here brings me to the conclusion that Sierra is still doing just what he wants, all this going on between you both and he goes and shaves his chest and stomach.

Sierra you would like your wife to be more comfortable and accepting yet you seem to be doing nothing to help her, all you seem to be doing is things to suit yourself. Everyone has the choice to do what they want with their body, but shaving when things are so up in their to me is just plain selfish.

Mrs G...don't hold back find a thread maybe in Loved Ones and post in that. :)

Mrs G shaved me before I ever found the forum and I kept it up. It hadn't really been brought up again until 2 nights ago. She asked me to grow it back and I told her I would rather not. I felt that backsliding is not the way to go.

I totally understand that I shouldn't push more than she can take, but if that is zero then do I give it up and just pretend it doesn't exist for the rest of our lives? How does that solve anything?

I would love to help my wife be more comfortable and accepting, but the once that she did let me dress, she said that it repulsed her. Her morals, and her faith are against it. If I attempt to shift her morals or rock her faith, isn't that worse? I don't want to hurt her more than I already have, yet no matter what I do, I manage to do just that. I pray we find a middle ground. Tomorrow is the first day of therapy, so maybe the therapist will have some ideas as well, but as always - no matter how harsh, I do appreciate your input.

BRANDYJ

05-15-2012, 11:15 AM

This might sound harsh. But from reading all the posts including ones from your wife, I sense she is trying. Count yourself lucky in that. Now she wants you to grow your hair back. Why not try as hard as she is? Give her this little comfort. It could very well be a request from her just to see how much you will bend to find a middle ground. You can't change her morals or her faith. Only she can do that if she finds a need or reason to do so. So it's smart not to try. She can't change your transgendered status and it would be foolish for her to try too. So there has to be a compromise somewhere between you. A small concession if not shaving for her is a small price to pay. Later, she may give in on that boundary. That is IF she can come to terms with living with you as a CD. So give in! Show her you care as much about her as she cares about you and the marriage. I think it would go a long way to show her you are still her man. Really sorry if it sounds harsh, but I think you are being a little selfish over a small concession as you try to work through this.

I wrote the above before seeing Sandra's post. Point is, we both see it the same way. So man up, and do something that shows you care about your wife's wishes.

pureslvr GG

05-15-2012, 12:28 PM

sierra_g

05-15-2012, 12:53 PM

Sierra, I have just been through what is probably the hardest thing I will ever face in my life. I lost my son and I so needed my "husband" to comfort and console me. He did his utmost best to be the "man" I needed him to be and continues to do so as the wound of my sons death is still fresh. I can honestly say that from your posts, God forbid something happen in your lives that your wife needs her "man" I don't think you are capable of putting your selfish side away, if only for a few weeks to be there for her. My heart goes out to her and you should thank your lucky stars and God himself for her being as supportive as she can be. I'm sorry if my reply is harsh but it's just my opinion based on your posts. I find you utterly selfish and self absorbed in your own wishes, wants, needs and desires. You have put your wife on the back burner so to speak and your lucky she hasn't left yet......All the best to you, your going to need it.

I am truly sorry for your loss. I don't even want to think about that ever happening in our family.
Maybe I am being selfish, I hear that a lot lately. I don't know what to do or where to go on this. I am purely acting from my own mind, which isn't always put together very well. Lately I am so confused that I am apparently not making the correct decisions. If growing chest hair is what will make her feel better, I will grow chest hair I guess. If I need to stop everything and attempt to pretend that none of this happened, I will try. I don't want to lose my wife but I don't want to live a lie anymore either.

Mrs. G

05-15-2012, 12:58 PM

We talked again last night and I believe that Sierra's problem with letting the hair grow back is that not only is it "backsliding" like he said, but I also feel like he has come to the conclusion that he isn't just a CD'er. He has mention that he relates more to the TG's on the forum and in the different threads. He has related to me that he is nervous that the therapist will diagnose him with having a *Gender Disorder. Sorry I don't know if this is the correct term or not. At this point I asked if that was what he actually wanted, it sounds to me as if it is. He said he didn't know but that he was afraid of it because he relates better to the TG's. I asked what we would do if she did give him that diagnoses. He said he would continue to see her, but he thought he might like to do HRT. I asked him to explain what HRT was. I have been to upset to do much research on this aspect of things. After he explain what it was he said he wanted to continue to see the therapist because he didn't want to do something he would later regret and that she would help him to make the decision as to if she thought he was a good candidate. I was angry and felt betrayed. She is a professional and I understand that but like I told him, there are no guarantees that if he does or does not do HRT that there will not be regret. Nobody ever gets that luxury, you make a decision and hope that it is the right one. The biggest betrayal is that while yes she is a professional and her opinion will help him determine if he is a candidate or not. I feel like that is a decision that should be made by my SO and that I should be the one he considers and our Daughters should be considered as well. I feel like we are all just spectators at the Sierra show.

I decided we needed to talk I couldn't just sit there stewing and keeping quite, I understand that he is confused but I feel like maybe he has his decisions and is just scared to own them. When I asked what he would tell the girls if decided that HRT is what he wanted, he simply stated that they would accept him because they are young. I understand that this is true but living in the community we live in it WILL affect there lives.

Maybe I am wrong to fell this way, I know he wants me to be supportive, but I don't know how. I was afraid to post any of this out side of the FAB threads. I know you all care for us and are trying to help where you can. I also thought that at least if posted here I can get the input of TG's, I couldn't get in FAB.

Sorry for the rant and rambling.

BRANDYJ

05-15-2012, 01:20 PM

Mrs.G, Please don't feel the need to apologize for what you call a rant and rambling. You are doing a very good job of expressing your feelings. My heart goes out to you. I know none of this is easy. All I can suggest is do what's best for you and your little girls. I for one do not agree that Sierra's decision, if it comes to that, will not adversely effect the girls. I can understand you feeling like a spectator in a side show. I sincerely hope this is all a bad case of PINK FOG and a foolish selfish fantasy that Sierra is going through. My concern is not for Sierra, although he clearly needs help, it's for you and your children. I wish you the best.

Rebecca Star

05-15-2012, 01:32 PM

How long has she known? Have you been pushing things to much?

I find the later can be the catalyst to all sorts of pent up frustrations being aired.
It's a bit like being chewed out over a glass being left on the bench...

The ladies here and gg's are really clued up and I'm sure as they've done so far will offer you some grade A+ advice.

Personally, while I didn't push the envelope hard, it took my SO ages to even feel kinda ok with my CDing. Even today almost 7 years later, she still has her moments.
Communication is the key here. If you can be sympathetic to your wife's needs and then both work on a fair comprimise, maybe thing will work out fine.

Silentpartner GG SO

05-15-2012, 02:15 PM

Mrs G shaved me before I ever found the forum and I kept it up. It hadn't really been brought up again until 2 nights ago. She asked me to grow it back and I told her I would rather not. I felt that backsliding is not the way to go.

I totally understand that I shouldn't push more than she can take, but if that is zero then do I give it up and just pretend it doesn't exist for the rest of our lives? How does that solve anything?

I would love to help my wife be more comfortable and accepting, but the once that she did let me dress, she said that it repulsed her. Her morals, and her faith are against it. If I attempt to shift her morals or rock her faith, isn't that worse? I don't want to hurt her more than I already have, yet no matter what I do, I manage to do just that. I pray we find a middle ground. Tomorrow is the first day of therapy, so maybe the therapist will have some ideas as well, but as always - no matter how harsh, I do appreciate your input.

Sierra, do you know how totally selfish and thoughtless that sentence is "She asked me to grow it back and I told her I would rather not. I felt that backsliding is not the way to go."

Your wife is going through hell at the moment, she's reaching out to you with a small request, to grow back your chest hair and you say that?. Are you actually prepared to give any ground at all or has it all got to be your way? Considering your wife's obvious moral and religious beliefs I think you are damn lucky she is still with you!

I think Brandy is being way too kind saying you are being a little selfish. Reading back over this whole thread, I cant see one example of where you have made any concession to your wife - plenty of examples of your wife making concessions to you but its all a one way street isnt it?
Nobody has asked you to stop everything and pretend its not there, but a degree of give and take is required - and that doesnt mean all give on Mrs G's side and all take on yours.

Mrs G, I could cry reading your post, I cant imagine how you must feel wondering if Sierra is now going to try HRT and all that which goes with it. She sounds to me like a rollercoaster totally out of control, totally engulfed in a full on attack of pink fog. You have very right to wonder where it will all go. Sierra needs to man up to the responsibilities he took on when he married and had children and stop acting like a spoilt brat who cant have all the sweeties in the jar.

Lesley_Roberta

05-15-2012, 02:38 PM

Just a gut response and I hope this is not taken wrong. I usually trust my gut responses that spring out first.

"My wife and I have been married for 4 years"

I recall being married 4 years. Sort of, it was so long ago.
But I do recall the 7 year itch, the 10 year blahs, the 15 year slump, the 20 year god we've been together forever, and I have passed the 25 year mark as well.

4 years is not very long, you haven't really even been together long enough to reeeeeally experience some things. Sadly not everyone meshes though.

I do hope though that you and your wife consider it worth the effort to do some marriage courses. If nothing, the ability to talk in front of someone taking notes and not having a side will mean neither of you has the advantage.

And it will take more than 1 session and it will take more than 4 or 5 too.
It took me the accumulated meetings of several years at a session per month on average. But I was going at the expense of my disability pension and normal coverage typically Canadian. If it was coming out of my pocket, I would likely have seen to it we didn't ramble at our sessions as often :)

You need to keep talking to you finish saying all that needs to be said.

BRANDYJ

05-15-2012, 02:41 PM

OK, let me say this. A confession of sorts without the details. I once was so engrossed in something I wanted that no one, I mean no one could have talked me out of it. I was blind and so selfish. No, it had nothing to do with being TG what so ever. But in the end, it caused a divorce. it only took me about 6 months for me to realize how selfish, how stubborn and wrong I was. To this very day I have regrets and wonder how and why I was so stupid. I lost the love of a very good woman and hurt her in my selfishness. Perhaps the biggest regret I have ever felt. Fortunately today my now ex-wife and I are at least friends. She says she can't forgive me, but we check in on each other from time to time, so I feel she has forgiven me to some degree to at least care about me as a person. I am blessed for that small concession. Even though I am in a new and very loving relationship, I still think back 6 years and feel the pain. I wish I had a group of people like this forum that wanted to o[pen my eyes and make me see how very wrong and hurtful I was. We did not have small children between us, just a step daughter i loved dearly. I lost her and still miss her.
Sierra, open your eyes and listen to what some very well meaning people are trying to say to you. look deep into your own self and see how you are destroying a love you may never see again. Not oonly from your wife, but those little girls as well. I sense that you wish this therapist will say that you are a candidate for HRT. You will try to persuade her to make that conclusion for your own selfish reasons. I;d be going to her in hopes she wants to kick me in the butt and put my head back on my shoulders and make me see what I have and might be about to lose. I sense you will try to control her thinking as you have been trying to control your wife's. I sincerely hope she sees this and can help you. But still, my hope is that she can help Mrs.G even more. And no, that does not mean that she will help Mrs.G see things your way. I mean that she will help her with her pain and concern for the marriage and your children.
I hope you don't someday have to be saddened every time you think back to the biggest mistake you might be heading for now. I don't wish the pain I endured when I woke up to late, on anyone.

ReineD

05-15-2012, 02:49 PM

Mrs. G, you're both fairly new here, and I just want to say that If Sierra feels she is not a CDer it could be that Sierra's definition of a CDer is someone who dresses purely for sexual reasons, and so she does not feel aligned with this definition. But, please know there are many identity CDers who also do not dress for sexual reasons but who at the same time do not feel they are transsexuals who need Sexual Reassignment Surgery. There's a pretty large spectrum of CDing motives among those who do not feel the need to eradicate their male parts.

As to the "TG", you both need a bit of an education about what this means. Some people think it is somewhere between "CD" and "TS". It is not. While it is true there are people who do not fit the gender binary paradigm (they do feel a mixture of feminine and masculine traits) even if in periods of their lives their need to present as women is quite strong, there is a difference between someone who is transsexual and someone who is not. The decision to take HRT to look like a woman in order to pass better or perhaps to get some breast development while believing there will not be any other effects of HRT (testicle shrinkage, loss of libido, and loss of male sexual functionality) is not sound. HRT doesn't work that way, people can't pick and choose what part of their anatomy it will affect and what parts will be left alone.

It could well be that Sierra has had a change from her posts in this thread and she now realizes she is indeed a transsexual who will need to transition, but she would need to identify solidly as a female, she would need to find no use for her penis, and the thought of being a man if only for a day would need to send her into depths of depression as to make it difficult for her to function in her daily life. Also depending on her physiognomy, she would also need to assess her chances of passing as a woman even after HRT (there is just so much that HRT can do in terms of changing someone's physical appearance especially after puberty), and possibly consider getting Facial Feminization Surgery.

So far I've gotten the impression based on Sierra's posts this is more about being submissive for her than an inherent, all-encompassing female gender identity. But, this is only an online forum and it is impossible to get a complete picture just based on a dozen short posts. I also want to say that I've gotten to know TSs in this forum and in my personal life and believe me, they certainly do not strike me as being insipid, wishy-washy individuals. Modern women are strong, not submissive, and a need to be submissive is not a trait that is gender specific to women, nor should it be any reason for transition. There are many men who enjoy being submissive too. :)

But, as previously mentioned we can't resolve Sierra's gender identity in something as remote as an online forum. I wanted to just give you the very basic differences between a TS and someone who is not TS (and who therefore, in my opinion, has no business getting HRT).

Edit
I don't want to put any words in anyone's mouth, but my biggest concern between the two of you is that this is turning into a power play more than anything else. If Sierra is adamant that she will not "backslide", and you are adamant that you do not want to be partnered to a woman, given the speed with which this is all happening, I can't help but think that Sierra wants to force your hand so that she can have an opportunity to live alone and express herself more freely. It almost feels like a series of "all or nothing/my way or not" scenarios. I can't say this is Sierra's true motive, just the impression I get, and this to me feels like "pink fog" more than anything else. I may well come to eat my words, but I just wanted to give you my thoughts at this time.

CONSUELO

05-15-2012, 03:00 PM

I think that others have said this but I recommend that you find a good knowledgeable counsellor or therapist. You are a cross dresser and you cannot just suddenly suppress that. I believe that it is not a choice issue. You are or you are not. But wrecking a relationship is also not a good option, especially as there are children involved. Take your time and do seek help.

Mrs. G

05-15-2012, 03:30 PM

Sandra

05-15-2012, 03:36 PM

and has tried to explain it to me by saying " Its like being a lesbian stuck in a mans body..

Well I'm married to TS who is transitioning and she has said it is nothing like that....I think that Sierra is not in the pink fog but a real thick pea souper.

Mrs G

Don't worry to much about the terms as time goes on you'll pick them up and understand them a bit more.

BRANDYJ

05-15-2012, 03:56 PM

I think that Sierra is not in the pink fog but a real thick pea souper.

Sandra, I never heard the term "pea souper" Must be one of those British terms we yanks don't use. Can you explain what you mean by it? I'm confused by it, so I'm sure Mrs. G would be too.

ReineD

05-15-2012, 04:33 PM

I guess my question to you is how should I refer to Sierra's choice in my future posts. He considers HRT , and has tried to explain it to me by saying " Its like being a lesbian stuck in a mans body. However he doesn't want the final surgery to remove his man parts. He has said he would do everything just short of that. Is that typical of the "Fog"?

I like Sandra's take on this. :p

Being a lesbian has absolutely nothing to do with someone's gender identity. You ask what label you should assign to Sierra right now. I would say a capital "Q" for "Questionning". His desire to be a submissive lesbian can be so great as to make her believe she is truly a woman. But, this is fantasy talk IMO. You never hear TSs say this.

In my experience, the fastest, least painful way out of this is to have Sierra go out (and in order to do this he will have to not obviously look like a guy in a dress, so will need to shave the visible parts of his body, i.e. lower legs, upper chest, and perhaps clip back the arm hair if it is very dark and bushy, also pluck the bushiness between the eyebrows if there is some (it is not necessary to turn them into a high arch ... androgynous eyebrows are doable so they don't look weird in guy mode). And then Sierra will simply need to see for herself what life as a woman who does groceries, goes to the bank, etc, is really like compared to the ideal that many CDers believe it is, as long as they are in their closets.

Also a word of warning: going to LGBT or alternative nightclubs doesn't count as a realistic outing. In these places there are all kinds of people who also like to play along with the fantasy.

WifeofWrenchette

05-15-2012, 04:38 PM

My husband used to think he was a "lesbian trapped in a man's body" when he was first going through "pink fog". Fast forward to six years later and he no longer thinks that. Your husband's thoughts/views may change on that after he's had some time to experiment and educate himself on all this. I like Reine's suggestion for him to live like a woman, doing EVERYDAY things a woman does, to see what he and how he feels doing it.

ReineD

05-15-2012, 04:48 PM

I like Reine's suggestion for him to live like a woman, doing EVERYDAY things a woman does, to see what he and how he feels doing it.

Just to be clear, I didn't mean to infer living like a woman full time, just going out on a regular basis (in the next town over if need be), until the fantasy of it all gets knocked down a notch or two.

sierra_g

05-15-2012, 05:16 PM

Thank you Reine for the differences, I don't try to pretend to know much about any of this and found it helpful. I guess my question to you is how should I refer to Sierra's choice in my future posts. He considers HRT , and has tried to explain it to me by saying " Its like being a lesbian stuck in a mans body. However he doesn't want the final surgery to remove his man parts. He has said he would do everything just short of that. Is that typical of the "Fog"? I know that that is not a clinical thing either. I am just lost as to how to properly explain our situation with out giving someone the wrong info because I don't know the proper terminology.

I'm not technically responding to this, but referencing it for some clarification.
Lesb in mans body isn't quite right. That was a very quick way to explain that I'm not gay. I am hetero and if I were to transition, I would still be only interested in females.
As for the surgery part, I am very stuck on this. I read about TS'ers that hate their parts and self loathe about them, but I've also read about how before HRT, many TS'ers loved their parts.
Mine is simply an instrument for sex. All male bodies of all species has an equivalent to it. I don't self loathe over it, but there are times I seriously hate that I have it instead of a vag.

Brandy: Pea Souper means that the fog is extra thick. Pea soup is a term used to describe the London fog that is so thick you can't see your hand in front of your face.

CONSUELO and SharedAcc: Tomorrow I see a therapist for the first time actually.

Reine, I am very aware of all the effects of HRT. If it just gave breasts and made males more fem without the shrinkage, sterilization, erections, depression, libido, blood clots, etc, it would be much more fun and there would be a lot more transitioners. I don't know where in the spectrum I fit. I hope for the sake of my family that it is a big fog, but either way, I want answers. I am not headed to the therapist tomorrow to sway them, that would be stupid. I plan on answering her questions as best I can. 100% truth, 100% honest.

I admit I have called her bluff a couple times, for the most part, I don't. There have been plenty of opportunities for me to leave, but I don't. I love my wife very much and pray that we can hold together. This is a trying few months, and I know it will just get worse. To add to this, her medical issues need her to be in a low stress environment. This is anything but. I pray we can settle down a bit with this and come to agreeable terms soon. Marriage counseling is a long road, and so is GI therapy. I don't expect any fixes in the next week, I can wait. I don't know that I can ever fully deny my female self again, but if I need to try, I can.

As far as being a sub goes, I am very much one, but I don't see a connection between this and that. Maybe I'm blind to it. I've tried putting all the fetish sub stuff behind me so I can focus on this.

Reine: With your other, newer post, you probably know already what I am going to say, but I would love to spend a day or a few days out as a "woman". It is something I look forward to doing one day. I think I would be more embarrassed by going to the local "gay bar" than anywhere else. I've already seen first hand on more than one occasion that people don't give a crud about what you look like as long as either A) They don't have to deal with you specifically, or B) You have money and want to buy something. Who knows, maybe it is just fantasy and maybe that would bring it back to reality.

Silentpartner: Thank you for the kind words.

Brandy: You heed the same warning as my father, he and my mom divorced when I was 2. My wife and I have actually been married for about 4 months longer than my parents were (new record!). One of the biggest positives is that my wife has repeatedly told me she would never keep the kids away from me.
The kids are one of our biggest arguments about this. She feels they shouldn't be exposed to it until they are moved out. I feel that they would resent being lied to, and I fear that they would be repeatedly told that CD/TS/TG is a horrible thing, like what I was told while growing up. They would see me as being someone who is awful.

ReineD

05-15-2012, 06:01 PM

I'm glad you're starting therapy, I wish you all the best with this. And given this is all new, please believe us that Pink Fog can be very powerful and give it at least a few years before you do anything to alter your body, but by all means you need to find a way to express yourself on a regular basis

As to counselors who diagnose for GID, I'm afraid there are some who are very knowledgeable about this, while others aren't so much. I don't know if you're going to see a family therapist who has had some exposure to people who question their gender identities, or if you are seeing someone who is clinically trained in gender dysphoria.

But, no good therapist will tell you who you are, you will not be magically given the OK to begin transition unless you expressly say this is what you need for yourself.

Beautiful

05-15-2012, 11:04 PM

im sorry this has happened to you but i hope you find happiness.

Babeba

05-15-2012, 11:45 PM

Mrs G shaved me before I ever found the forum and I kept it up. It hadn't really been brought up again until 2 nights ago. She asked me to grow it back and I told her I would rather not. I felt that backsliding is not the way to go. [\quote]

Sierra, if you want your relationship to survive you are going to have to slide backwards, forwards and side-to-side. Trust your wife when she tells you things and her feelings. As your wife and the mother of your children, as your PARTNER, she is a part of this journey. You need to know that even we who are accepting of our spouses have days where some things matter more to us (or less). Honestly, while your chest may be shaved, I am not convinced that you're actually firm on the footing you think you might be. Going too fast is a good way to fall off the obstacle course, and have to start again far behind where you could have been if you were going more slowly.

Think about it. Hair grows back so quickly, (it comes off relatively quickly too) and trust me when I say the job is mundane when you actually have to do it all the time. It isn't any effort at all to let it grow for now until your wife is okay with that step. Some men work hours and hours of overtime, or slave away at projects to get or make things to make their wives happier. Crystal has spent several evenings recently driving three hours round trip to sit with me for a couple hours and drive home again to go back to working overtime as I've been poorly and this is how he can comfort me. You can comfort your wife and make her happy by just letting your hair follicles do their duties! How is that backwards in your life as a whole?

[quote]
I totally understand that I shouldn't push more than she can take, but if that is zero then do I give it up and just pretend it doesn't exist for the rest of our lives? How does that solve anything? simply the fact that she is here and you are not on your butt in the street means her level of acceptance is NOT zero. She didn't push you into a religious rehab centre (there is a thread by Sarahcrossed in the loved ones section you should read), she didn't refuse to talk about any of this stuff, she didn't take a pair of scissors to all your girl things, she didn't ask for money to keep from telling everyone your 'dirty secret...' these things have all happened with members. I'm not trying to use scare tactics, and I'm not trying to say it is a bad decision to tell about cross dressing... But it takes time to come to terms with things, and your wife is not 100% comfortable with this stuff right now. It's fair enough, because it took YOU years and decades of being you to come to this point and she's had how long? A month or so of really dealing with it? IMHO, you are going too fast right now and that is going to backslide you in life if you are not careful.

I would love to help my wife be more comfortable and accepting, but the once that she did let me dress, she said that it repulsed her. Her morals, and her faith are against it. If I attempt to shift her morals or rock her faith, isn't that worse? I don't want to hurt her more than I already have, yet no matter what I do, I manage to do just that. I pray we find a middle ground. Tomorrow is the first day of therapy, so maybe the therapist will have some ideas as well, but as always - no matter how harsh, I do appreciate your input.

One of the great things about personal faith is that it is between a person and their deity. Trying to moderate the influences on that person to make clear insights on that faith doesn't help them, sometimes it makes issues more cloudy. The best things you can do right now for Mrs. G are to treat her with honesty -let her know what is going on - and respect - really, listen to her and work within boundaries that you both can live with. This line I've boldest just sounds so defeatist... You really need to keep at it even if it seems like you are hurting her anyway, it hurts more when you CDs stop trying.

Also, I skimmed the later posts a little and you are talking about HRT: there are many, many therapists who will make you see a doctor to prescribe. There are also many healthcare professionals who will make you live full time or have a more stable home situation before prescription of HRT. Hormones are not given out like candy.

There are many, MANY TG people on this board and just because you don't feel like a CDer doesn't mean that you are TS, either. There are many TG people who incorporate aspects of both genders into their lives and feel most complete this way, in fact I would say a rather large portion of the less vocal members are like this.

Badtranny

05-16-2012, 12:22 AM

wow another thread that I didn't think was particularly interesting got pretty damn interesting when I wasn't watching.

Sierra, I'm not getting a TS vibe from you. Maybe it's because your wife is watching but you sound like a standard CD to me. I may be wrong (of course) but you need to seriously consider that you might just LOVE wearing women's clothes. Being "more" than a crossdresser is just big talk until you can back it up with actions and that means coming out. Yes, CD's do not NEED to come out, but TS's absolutely must. You need to start thinking more about the work and less about the clothes. I don't know if you've been following my transition but I walked into my office today for the first time as Melissa. I've been transitioning for two years (openly for one) and today is the FIRST day I walked into the world as a full time career woman. I'm gonna be honest with you, I was a wreck. I didn't even park in my space which they have already changed to read my new name. I parked in the visitor's space as close to the front door as possible and I still sat there for a few minutes trying to get the nerve to walk in the door. I'm not ashamed to say that I almost left and tried again tomorrow. I was an emotional wreck for the last few days (crying sessions and everything) and that's AFTER a long and carefully planned transition. My stock advice to people who are questioning their identity is; If you're not ready to come out, then you're not ready to transition. Don't think about the clothes, they are of very little concern to me, think about walking into the world as a "handsome" woman. I thought I was ready, but it was just one more thing that I was wrong about. It is extremely difficult to reveal yourself in conversation to your colleagues, it is exponentially more difficult to reveal yourself in 3D.

Sandra

05-16-2012, 03:18 PM

Sandra, I never heard the term "pea souper" Must be one of those British terms we yanks don't use. Can you explain what you mean by it? I'm confused by it, so I'm sure Mrs. G would be too.

Fog so think that you can't see your hand in front of you. :D

sierra_g

05-16-2012, 05:12 PM

My wife ended up going to the apt with me. It was a great apt. We talked quite a bit. She is more of a family therapist, but currently has multiple TS patients. She is very experienced in GID's. We basically just did an assessment and called it good. Next apt is on Tuesday. Glad to see that things are starting to roll correctly. I have a lot of faith in her so far. I shared things with her in the first session that I thought I would take to the grave.

Soriya

05-16-2012, 05:53 PM

Great to hear Sierra!

Melissa_59

05-16-2012, 05:59 PM

S... children without 2 parents do less well than children with 2 parents.

I absolutely disagree with this. My brother, sister, and I would have been much better off to have one happy parent than two miserable parents, and we always seemed to get dragged into the fights and the mix. When my mother finally divorced our father, I was never happier. We were finally at peace in the house. We were finally over the screaming and yelling and constant fighting about my father's spending and cheating on my mother.

And all I can say is that your dressing is a part of you. I've never known anyone who ever gave it up permanently - I sure tried, and purged (for the sake of MY marriage) was "dress free" for about two years when I finally started dressing again (and there was an intense period of drinking that took place because of what I was denying - no alcohol now though). Maybe there have been people who have given it up for good, but I've never heard of anyone doing it myself.

You CAN still be there for your daughters, and not be married to your wife. I'm there for my daughters, they know it, they love me - and both of them really hate their mothers (two marriages) for what their mothers did to me. And there's nothing to say you can't get custody of your daughters either, at least partial custody.

I can tell you that my 2nd marriage was 23 years long, and ended in some serious misery, with my wife constantly fighting and looking for reasons to fight (and with my dressing, she didn't have to look far). I'd save you that long anguish if I could, but you have to decide for yourself. My friends all told me I had the patience of Job, and that I should have ended the marriage about five years into it.

All I can tell you is my perspective, and what I've seen. It never got better, it got worse and worse as the years dragged on. Hopefully someone else out there has a happier story. But I am here to tell you that you can have a good relationship with your daughters, even if you're not married to the mother of your children. It's up to you how you make that relationship though, you'll have to put the effort into it.

I hope that helps.

Melissa

sierra_g

05-16-2012, 08:43 PM

Melissa, I do realize that for many people, marriage is not the answer. For many others though, divorce isn't. I pray I am in the latter category. I would hate to think that something I did ruined my marriage. Our counseling today was hopefully the first of many and I hope it continues to do us good. Yes, there is life after marriage, but it isn't something I look forward to. After failing to think and also failing to think about my wife once again, I have been asked to not sleep in our room tonight.
Tuesday is my next session, and hers is the week after next. I pray that she doesn't kill me before then.

Mrs. G

05-16-2012, 08:49 PM

Melissa ~
Its true that our daughters can be OK with out us being married, your absolutely right. If dressing is something Sierra can't live without fine so be it. I don't how ever think I was being unreasonable by expecting the same respect FROM him that I give To him. I was upfront about all my emotional baggage BEFORE we got into a committed relationship. He made requests of me before we could even started dating and expected that I be able to fulfill most of them. I was upfront about things from my past I had dealt with that I NEVER thought would be an issue later in my life, but I loved him enough to let him know who I was now because of my past. I should have at least been able to expect the same from him, whether or not he thought it could happen again. I should have been told about the past enough to know who he was because of it. Again today we fight, not because he wants to put on a dress but because again I find out second hand about things of great importance of his past. He stated he thought he would never tell anyone, that he would take it to the grave. When I compared it to the things in my past that he forced me to deal with, he said I was right that he should have told me and that he was sorry. How many more "SORRY's" I'm I going to have to live through before he finally cuts us lose and leaves for this new self.

Is my anger misplaced that I feel like I have been lied to again? How many more times am I going to hear "this is as bad as it gets" before something else rears its head. I know it is a sin to pray to not be IN love with your husband anymore because you don't know how much more you can take. Around every corner there is another "I'm sorry, I didn't think it would upset you, I never meant to hurt you" yet when I convey that I need time to process, he keeps getting further and further down this unending rabbit hole.

Yes it's true my children may hate me for what I did to him, but I pray to God they don't ever have to go through what I am right now. If I can spare them one second of pain because of the things going on between their father and me then it will have been worth all of it. I don't want a divorce but the more we TALK the more I find out what kind of Man/ Woman I am married to is. If he cant seem to care enough about this marriage and what it is doing to us to just STOP for a little while and wait for me to try and catch up then he doesn't love me the way he keeps professing he does. Actions speak louder than words.

Yes I am angry, and I am sorry if you feel your getting the brunt end of this, but your post while I'm sure was meant with good intentions, did nothing but hurt half of OUR relationship. I am sorry things went for you the way they did. I am happy that your daughters love and respect you. I also don't know anything about the women you were married to, or if you were honest from the beginning with them or not. I DO however know MY husband and that as much as I love him he wasn't. I also know the kind of pain this has cause both of us, but more importantly I am beginning to know where I stand as a priority in his life.

I apologize if this has hurt anyone's feelings, my intentions were not to hurt anyone reading this but to share where I am coming from.

MandyGG

05-16-2012, 09:05 PM

Mrs. G,

You are allowed to feel anger for being lied to about his past. That is where my anger stemmed from. I was also 100% open and honest with my husband, only to find out that secrets were being withheld from me. When you ask a question, you expect an honest answer. You do not expect for them to lie when the question is asked and then have to confess it at a later time because it was found out.

What I can offer about this is that most of the CD's that kept it from their spouses do so out of shame. The way that my husband said it to me was, "If I admit it to you, then I am admitting it to myself!" Those were hard words to hear.

Sierra DOES need to give you space and time to heal. I had told him this already. Repeatedly. You need a few moments of normal life.

Please get around to posting on other threads so that you can join us in FAB.

Remember that you are not alone. We are all here for each other.

ReineD

05-16-2012, 09:18 PM

Chrissy

05-16-2012, 09:44 PM

Sierra I don't know what to say. I'm also new to the group and from what I learned so far is that there is a lot of us in the same boat, me included. It seems that if we want to be happy we have some hard things to face and do. I'm fed up with living in hiding and feeling ashamed when caught. Mine hasn't even lasted a year.

Gurls in the same boat

Soriya

05-16-2012, 11:14 PM

Mrs. G. :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

It's unfortunate that some people believe their own experiences, their own choices, are applicable to everyone else. It's silly when you think about it, since none of us know anything about you and Sierra other than what you've said in a few short posts in this thread. We don't know your backgrounds, your personalities, your strengths and weaknesses, your relationship dynamics, the strength of your feelings toward one another ...

This!!!!! Thank you Reine!! This sadly is the case all to often in life when it comes to advice people give on any topic. Friends, Family, people with similar situations do so with the purest of intention but most of the time the advice is bad and only clouds the person(s) in needs judgement. In the end, this is between Sierra and Mrs. G and at this point from following this thread, I tend to feel it may be hurting them more then helping. They have a therapist now but giving updates together how things are going in here seems to be making things worse.

As much as I hope for the best for the both of them, I hope this thread falls by the way side so they can do the work they need to together and keep things private with themselves or with people they feel they can trust on here via PM's :)

Jacqueline Winona

05-16-2012, 11:35 PM

Sierra, you know that I get where you're coming from on this. But as they say, friends are friends because they will tell you what you don't want to hear; now, I'm telling you to give Mrs. G a hug. Step back a minute, and just read her last post. She needs whatever your male name is this minute, not tomorrow, not next week, but right now. This is the character test time, show her what you are inside, and just reassure her that you're the same person she married. Forget about the dressing, forget about your gender identity, just give her your heart.

Chrissy

05-16-2012, 11:37 PM

okay my first writing was after reading Sierra's original posting. Ladies here seem to think that you are in the wrong and that problem within the marriage is you. You can try to be a man for six months and not touch anything but you'll be thinking about it. I thing you are starting a vicious cycle now. You will abandon your feminine feelings and needs until a stressful event happens or you can't stand not dressing anymore. Then you will sneak things and feel ashamed about it. If she catches you then it becomes even a bigger problem because you were doing it behind her back. During this time depression rears its ugly face. you then get rid of everything and you start the cycle over. I think that even though she said that she was okay with it at the beginning she wasn't really comfortable with and she only put up with it because of the love for you but as we all know love changes or evolves. Is she really so versed on the bible. If not then most likely she has already talked with someone about it. The kids are important to both of you but the marriage is between you and your wife not the kids. Don't get me wrong, in the idea world there is a husband and wife with kids and they live happily everafter but the world we live in is far from that. I have a 10 yr old son and he lives with me and visits his mom and he is fine. Do what is best for you, the kids will adapt. Love the kids and spend as much time as you can with them and if you are happy they will be happy.