Great quote from Jennifer Boylan

[CharleneT]

I read this today and thought it was worth sharing with you all. She speaks very well to the subject of whether or not transition is for everyone ( it is not ). It was written by Jennifer Boylan ( read her books if you haven't ):

An FB friend decided not to transition. I wrote her the following note:

"You take your time. You know the old saying-- if you can't transition, don't. A more positive way of looking at it might be to acknowledge that all of this is f--king hard, and that cheerleaders on the internet notwithstanding, the world is full of trans people who probably would have been better off not transitioning. I don't believe that the full switcheroo makes everybody happier; with my own eyes I have seen people who were not ready, or who did not know what they were getting into, or who did not carefully weigh what they gained against all that they will lose. In that last category are the inevitable changes to family and loved ones, and even in the best case scenario-- which mine was, sort of-- there are still plenty of tears to be cried and compromises to live with, difficult ones, every day thereafter. Here's the thing: we always talk about how brave trans people are, how much courage they have to transition. But I think it's the ones who don't transition who are brave-- men and women who continue to live their first life in order to protect themselves, and their loved ones, and that courage deserves to be honored. In any case, there are NO wrong choices here, and should you change your mind, or feel more ready later, well that's fine too. There are a lot of ways of doing this, including not doing it at all, and in the interim, all we know is that whatever you do, you have to do it with love, and with your full heart.

[Melissa Jill]

Who is Jennifer Boylan?

Anyways, an important thing to remember is that once you've started your transition theres not really any going back. Once you're out that's it, you're out.

[Andie Elisabeth]

Who is Jennifer Boylan?
http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/30973.Jennifer_Finney_Boylan
http://www.jenniferboylan.net/about-jenny/

[Katesback]

Well thats totally all cool. The one thing I might add is that if someone chooses to not transition then great. However if they sit around and bitch, wine, complain, and ramble on about how bad thier life is I only get annoyed. Perhaps I am cold hearted but then I have had to listen to these stories more times than I can count and I guess it gets old.

Katie

[Julia_in_Pa]

Thank you for sharing this Charlene.

I've read some of her work. Whereas she is kind and pleasing to the average readers palate alot of what she writes is detached from the reality that most TS and IS people find themselves in.
You can read of too many people who should have transitioned did not due to real or perceived responsibilities that " kept " them from doing so.
The stories of those that did not transition due to family responsibilities ending up dead from suicide a few years later need to be kept at the forefront of the transitioning persons mind.

Those that take baby steps towards transition but never reach their destination should just stop for the sake of their family and friends and just live life as it was given to them.
You know the ones I'm talking about. The ones you see at support group meetings that took some early steps towards transition.
Fast forward five years later and at that support group you find the same person saying she has to transition but somehow never takes another step due to the excuses they made not to.
These are the people that should not transition.

Many people become excuse machines and stack excuse upon excuse as to why they can't transition yet they suffer for years due to their inaction.

If you know you have to transition and don't then you have just ended your life. Your the walking dead. Your preoccupation with transitioning will occupy your thoughts and feelings for years leaving little for anyone or anything else.
If you know you have to transition to save your life from suicide and you don't then it's your funeral literally.



Julia

[Katesback]

Sounds like you have seen and herd the people with the excuses as well. I guess it is just part of life. Many people make excuses for all sorts of stuff. Oh well.

[Badtranny]

Well thats totally all cool. The one thing I might add is that if someone chooses to not transition then great. However if they sit around and bitch, wine, complain, and ramble on about how bad thier life is I only get annoyed. Perhaps I am cold hearted but then I have had to listen to these stories more times than I can count and I guess it gets old.

Unbelievable, I agree with Kate again.

There was a time when I couldn't imagine anyone lying or pretending to want to transition because they were looking for fellowship or whatever, but I am beginning to think that EVERYONE is just full of crap. I see so much stuff on this forum that is so bizarre it can't possibly be true and it occurs to me that a good many of these members are just yanking our chain. If this were a home studio board, at least half of these people would be called on their BS and moderated out of the forum, but because of the fantasy aspect that is literally woven into the fabric of this place, it's apparently difficult to draw a line between harmless fun and hurtful idiocy.

[Katesback]

Well Badtranny it only takes a short while for the real women to pick out the fake ones. Really! Getting back to the the original post. Anywhere in life there are people that talk and people that do what it takes. Sadly the majority of the people out there are just talkers.

I myself am results orientated. I did what it took to be me! Enough said.

Katie

[Anna Lorree]

Wow CharleneT, thank you for that quotation. I have read one of Jennifer's books, "She's Not There", and find her honesty on this subject to be wonderful. She seems to convey the good and the bad, fairly equally.

Anna

[Sally24]

I have spoken to Jenny a few times and don't actually live too far from where she does. I think she generally speaks well for us and lives a very real and rewarding life. I too agree that there are many ways to deal with being TG/TS. If you can find some variation that allows you to be happy, then good for you! If that life is not perfect, well what life is?

[Babeba]

Well Badtranny it only takes a short while for the real women to pick out the fake ones.

Katie

Is this really fair? I mean, really?

My take is, if this was true then transwomen wouldn't feel they need to be stealth, would they?

[CharleneT]

Who is Jennifer Boylan?

Anyways, an important thing to remember is that once you've started your transition theres not really any going back. Once you're out that's it, you're out.

Jennifer Boylan wrote two very good books about transitioning. The second one is (in my opinion) an attempt to re-write the first - only better. These books often resonate with people just before and during transition. They are well written and the story line is interesting. The first one suffers from a little too much "creative writing". J. Boylan teaches creative writing at Colby, so you can hardly blame her for that ... The problem a lot of folks have with the books is that her life is a little too perfect to be real. Truth is that is the real story, she's blessed and I think knows it. Hence why she "gives back" a lot. She is in the forefront of the TS movement and lives a very public life. Of the famous MTF's out there, she's the one you want to have on a talk show etc. It is also true that living that life and writing those books has made her very rich. But the same could be said for Dr. Bowers (just change the factors a bit)



Well thats totally all cool. The one thing I might add is that if someone chooses to not transition then great. However if they sit around and bitch, wine, complain, and ramble on about how bad thier life is I only get annoyed. Perhaps I am cold hearted but then I have had to listen to these stories more times than I can count and I guess it gets old.

Katie

I think that Boylan agree with you. I also do not think that whiners is what she is trying to give support to here. She is just trying to say that strait thru full transition is not the only route, or end point that can work out. Does that mean you can be TS and not transition and be happy ? Maybe, depends on the person. Imagine how much whining and excuse making she has to listen to on a daily basis!! Anyone on the planet can find her email easily and write to her. The pile must be huge.



Thank you for sharing this Charlene.

I've read some of her work. Whereas she is kind and pleasing to the average readers palate alot of what she writes is detached from the reality that most TS and IS people find themselves in.
You can read of too many people who should have transitioned did not due to real or perceived responsibilities that " kept " them from doing so.
The stories of those that did not transition due to family responsibilities ending up dead from suicide a few years later need to be kept at the forefront of the transitioning persons mind.


I agree with you wholeheartedly ! Still, there are those who do not live with suicide as their future and do not transition. As well, there are those who transition and the live to regret it. I have a friend here who is locally famous as a very successfully transitioned MTF. But I can also tell you that she regrets doing it and given any way to do so would retreat. Is she really TS ? I believe so, but I also believe that she made a huge mistake. It is complex, there is not answer that fits everyone.




Those that take baby steps towards transition but never reach their destination should just stop for the sake of their family and friends and just live life as it was given to them.
You know the ones I'm talking about. The ones you see at support group meetings that took some early steps towards transition.
Fast forward five years later and at that support group you find the same person saying she has to transition but somehow never takes another step due to the excuses they made not to.
These are the people that should not transition.
. . .

If you know you have to transition to save your life from suicide and you don't then it's your funeral literally.

Julia

Indeed !! Although I do not think it has to be a literal funeral. None of us can set the perfect path for everyone. I know people on here who believe that you can only be happy if you've had SRS, yet there are people who are. Exactly what do we mean when we say "transition" ??

[ReineD]

There are people whose gender ID is not binary ... a whole slew of people who are not fully men, not fully women, nor are they true TSs. And they're not fetish CDers either. My SO is such a person. She was single for about 10 years, during which time she could have done anything she wanted. She came to the conclusion after much introspection that she would not transition, and this was before she met me. There were no constraints ... no wives, no kids to worry about, just her own rigorously honest self-assessment.

Is her need to express her femininity any less than a TS's? I don't think so. She'd be utterly miserable living simply as a guy. Has her need to be herself reached pinnacles of urgency in the past? Absolutely. But, even despite this she was able to see that life as a woman was not the answer for her. So instead she constructed her life in a manner to embrace and express all aspects of who she is. And unlike a TS who goes through FFs and hormones, she knows that she will never be seen as a woman (not up close), in a world that accepts ONLY binary gender. This is not easy. It takes courage.

Does her decision make her or others like her a whiner, a fence-sitter, a coward, or somehow less worthy than people who do fully identify as one gender or the other? Absolutely not. I dare say that the real need to express femininity is so strong in some bigenders they forge ahead with transition without thoroughly thinking it through. Kudos to the people who recognize what they're doing before it's too late. I think these are the people that J Boylan refers to and I agree that it takes a huge amount of courage to NOT choose one gender or the other.

Some of you may dismiss anyone who is not a "true TS" as just another CD who is caught in a pink fog. Again using my SO as an example, she's had her moments with clothes shopping, sexual fantasies and what not (how many TSs haven't gone through the same things), and she does not identify as a CD or a TS. She is dualgender and she had the wisdom to recognize this. She has her rightful place along the gender continuum that is not free of angst that TSs experience when they go through their own processes of self-discovery.

My SO and others like her, deserves as much respect as any true TS.

[Kathryn Martin]

There is a reason why some people identify as gender variant. It is in the no-womans land between genders that those that are gender variant find their locus of existence. There are also those, whose inner configuartion is firmly rooted in the gender binary but who do not transition. I have a friend who has otherwise ideal conditions to transition. She is a public personality however and notwithstanding her spouse being fully apprised and supporting her in her need to transition decided for her own reasons that transition is not for her. She is a true transsexual who decided for herself not to transition.

I have nothing but the greatest respect for her. She demonstrates her humanity every day she lives, namely being guided by herself and not by the pressures brought to bear on her both externally and internally.

Jennifer Boylan says at the end of the quoted piece that whatever you do, do it with a whole heart, which in my personal nomenclature is be authentic in what you do and be courageous in doing it. I have always thought that bringing pressure to bear on others to follow the path we chose is the silliest thing I have ever heard of. Recognize your differences. We can have thoughts but not every thought about whether someone should transition ought to be spoken. You might lead someone down a garden path that they cannot connect with.

If we recognize, as equally promising and equally debilitating that there are different conditions, namely transsexual, gender variant and also being firmly rooted in one gender and expressing at times the opposite, that is a feminine or masculine side to ones personality, then value judgements such as, "true TS" or "CD caught in a pink fog" lose all of their power over people. I am sure that many of us are not entirely forthright here because we are afraid of the value judgements. The result is a false narrative and if you buy into your own false narrative you are courting disaster no matter which direction your false narrative points you.


There are people whose gender ID is not binary ... a whole slew of people who are not fully men, not fully women, nor are they true TSs. And they're not fetish CDers either. My SO is such a person. She was single for about 10 years, during which time she could have done anything she wanted. She came to the conclusion after much introspection that she would not transition, and this was before she met me. There were no constraints ... no wives, no kids to worry about, just her own rigorously honest self-assessment.

Is her need to express her femininity any less than a TS's? I don't think so. She'd be utterly miserable living simply as a guy. Has her need to be herself reached pinnacles of urgency in the past? Absolutely. But, even despite this she was able to see that life as a woman was not the answer for her. So instead she constructed her life in a manner to embrace and express all aspects of who she is. And unlike a TS who goes through FFs and hormones, she knows that she will never be seen as a woman (not up close), in a world that accepts ONLY binary gender. This is not easy. It takes courage.

Does her decision make her or others like her a whiner, a fence-sitter, a coward, or somehow less worthy than people who do fully identify as one gender or the other? Absolutely not. I dare say that the real need to express femininity is so strong in some bigenders they forge ahead with transition without thoroughly thinking it through. Kudos to the people who recognize what they're doing before it's too late. I think these are the people that J Boylan refers to and I agree that it takes a huge amount of courage to NOT choose one gender or the other.

Some of you may dismiss anyone who is not a "true TS" as just another CD who is caught in a pink fog. Again using my SO as an example, she's had her moments with clothes shopping, sexual fantasies and what not (how many TSs haven't gone through the same things), and she does not identify as a CD or a TS. She is dualgender and she had the wisdom to recognize this. She has her rightful place along the gender continuum that is not free of angst that TSs experience when they go through their own processes of self-discovery.

My SO and others like her, deserves as much respect as any true TS.

[Michelle.M]

. . . but then I have had to listen to these stories more times than I can count and I guess it gets old.

No, you don't. I really don't understand why you invest all this emotional capital in others' lack of will to do something. If it's not transitioning it's weight loss, going back to college or procrastinating about cleaning the house. Talkers will always outnumber doers.

We each make our own path and take it. Even if that means the path chosen is inactivity. You don't have to listen to these stories any more than you have to listen to people complain about taxes, gush about their grandchildren or tell tasteless jokes. All you have to do is change the subject and move the conversation along. If that doesn't work, just get up and walk away.

It's easy. I do it all the time.

[Badtranny]

Some of you may dismiss anyone who is not a "true TS" as just another CD who is caught in a pink fog. Again using my SO as an example, she's had her moments with clothes shopping, sexual fantasies and what not (how many TSs haven't gone through the same things), and she does not identify as a CD or a TS. She is dualgender and she had the wisdom to recognize this. She has her rightful place along the gender continuum that is not free of angst that TSs experience when they go through their own processes of self-discovery. My SO and others like her, deserves as much respect as any true TS.

Agreed RD. I know a few of these hapless souls my self and I've said before on this very site that THEY are the ones who have it tough. As difficult as full transition is, at least I know who I am. I have lived in between out of necessity because the HRT made me look funny, and I didn't like it. It started out as fun, but I learned that the gender queer experience was not for me. I kinda wished it would've been. My beef with CD's has nothing to do with the 20% like your SO or my good friends. These people have accepted themselves and exude a positive energy that has attracted countless friends. These people don't live two lives, they may or may not exercise some discretion in their wardrobe choices but they are the same person in drab as they are in fab. Not ashamed and not afraid to speak out against injustice wherever they may find it. These are just essentially good people.

I have a problem with those that CD, and cultivate CD friends, and sneak around in gay neighborhoods but do not support human or civil rights during the light of day. At night they want to be accepted as fabulous and hang out with my gay brothers and sisters but will not speak out in support of them the next day when one of their buddies spots a fag across the street. Or maybe they are politically conservative and are so ashamed of who they are that they consistently vote against our best interests. Keep in mind that I am not, or ever advocating outing one's self but I hardly think sticking up for another human being, female, gay, trans, or just smaller, is going to "out" anybody. It does however require courage and that is in short supply among the majority of CD's. These are the people I can't abide.

[ReineD]

There is a reason why some people identify as gender variant. It is in the no-womans land between genders that those that are gender variant find their locus of existence. There are also those, whose inner configuration is firmly rooted in the gender binary but who do not transition.

We should frame this in gold and hang it up on the wall here. :) But the trouble with keeping something like this in mind is twofold:

1. We can't see anyone's internal configuration/motives and this is complicated by so many variables: personalities, internal & external barriers, the degree of life-long repression/denial which may result in varying degrees of romanticizing life in the opposite than birth gender.

2. It is human nature to project onto others what we know. The TSs in this forum will tend to see themselves in others, as will CDers, so depending on which side of the forum we're on, we'll have different estimates as to whether or not a sizable chunk of TGs are either true TSs who've choosen not to transition, or they are truly gender variant and it would not be in their best interests to transition. :)


Jennifer Boylan says at the end of the quoted piece that whatever you do, do it with a whole heart, which in my personal nomenclature is be authentic in what you do and be courageous in doing it.

Absolutely! Some of the threads we've had in the CDing section, the pages upon pages of posts (when asked in the OP) from people who say they think about CDing nearly all the time, or they would transition in a flash if they could, really make me sad. These are people who have made life choices but they don't appear to have done it with their whole hearts. I don't know if such people are as unhappy as they sound, but it feels as if they are from my viewpoint as an outsider. I can't imagine living a life where I was constantly wishing to be somewhere or someone else. :sad:


I have always thought that bringing pressure to bear on others to follow the path we chose is the silliest thing I have ever heard of. Recognize your differences. We can have thoughts but not every thought about whether someone should transition ought to be spoken. You might lead someone down a garden path that they cannot connect with. If we recognize, as equally promising and equally debilitating that there are different conditions, namely transsexual, gender variant and also being firmly rooted in one gender and expressing at times the opposite, that is a feminine or masculine side to ones personality, then value judgements such as, "true TS" or "CD caught in a pink fog" lose all of their power over people. I am sure that many of us are not entirely forthright here because we are afraid of the value judgements. The result is a false narrative and if you buy into your own false narrative you are courting disaster no matter which direction your false narrative points you.

This one should be lit in neon before it is hung on the forum walls. :hugs:


As difficult as full transition is, at least I know who I am.

So does my SO. She is not fully "one" or "the other", she is her very own mixture of both. ;)


... the 20% like your SO or my good friends. These people have accepted themselves and exude a positive energy that has attracted countless friends. These people don't live two lives, they may or may not exercise some discretion in their wardrobe choices but they are the same person in drab as they are in fab.

How do you know it's only 20%? And you've nailed it ... these people are the same in any of their gender modes. But I think it takes practice to do this and also a lot of self-awareness and self-confidence. Any TG GM needs to move beyond his male socialization and this takes time as well as having conducive life circumstances. My guess is, if most CDers had even semi supportive mechanisms in their lives (or a minimum of barriers), they'd fit this definition. I also believe there are many people who have difficulty with fully understanding and accepting the concept of non-binary gender who feel compelled to make a choice, especially if they felt repressed the majority of their lives whether through internal or external pressures, or both.

Here's the difficulty with being non-binary: there is an internal gender ID that is consistant (the mixture of male attributes with female thought processes, no matter how someone is dressed), that is extremely difficult to portray in real life, in a world that INSISTS on people being either fully male or fully female. I'm guessing there's a wide variety of coping mechanisms that CDers engage in, in order to deal with this.


I hardly think sticking up for another human being, female, gay, trans, or just smaller, is going to "out" anybody. It does however require courage and that is in short supply among the majority of CD's. These are the people I can't abide.

I totally agree with this. :hugs:

[Debglam]

There are people whose gender ID is not binary ... a whole slew of people who are not fully men, not fully women, nor are they true TSs. And they're not fetish CDers either. My SO is such a person. She was single for about 10 years, during which time she could have done anything she wanted. She came to the conclusion after much introspection that she would not transition, and this was before she met me. There were no constraints ... no wives, no kids to worry about, just her own rigorously honest self-assessment.

Is her need to express her femininity any less than a TS's? I don't think so. She'd be utterly miserable living simply as a guy. Has her need to be herself reached pinnacles of urgency in the past? Absolutely. But, even despite this she was able to see that life as a woman was not the answer for her. So instead she constructed her life in a manner to embrace and express all aspects of who she is. And unlike a TS who goes through FFs and hormones, she knows that she will never be seen as a woman (not up close), in a world that accepts ONLY binary gender. This is not easy. It takes courage.

Does her decision make her or others like her a whiner, a fence-sitter, a coward, or somehow less worthy than people who do fully identify as one gender or the other? Absolutely not. I dare say that the real need to express femininity is so strong in some bigenders they forge ahead with transition without thoroughly thinking it through. Kudos to the people who recognize what they're doing before it's too late. I think these are the people that J Boylan refers to and I agree that it takes a huge amount of courage to NOT choose one gender or the other.

Some of you may dismiss anyone who is not a "true TS" as just another CD who is caught in a pink fog. Again using my SO as an example, she's had her moments with clothes shopping, sexual fantasies and what not (how many TSs haven't gone through the same things), and she does not identify as a CD or a TS. She is dualgender and she had the wisdom to recognize this. She has her rightful place along the gender continuum that is not free of angst that TSs experience when they go through their own processes of self-discovery.

My SO and others like her, deserves as much respect as any true TS.

I am purposefully quoting the entire post with a hearty, AMEN!


Who is Jennifer Boylan?

Ms. Boylan is, IMHO, proof positive that being trans, even transitioned/ing TS, does not mean that you cannot have a family or be successful in your chosen career, and in life. She is an amazing woman and a talented author and professor.


I have a problem with those that CD, and cultivate CD friends, and sneak around in gay neighborhoods but do not support human or civil rights during the light of day. At night they want to be accepted as fabulous and hang out with my gay brothers and sisters but will not speak out in support of them the next day when one of their buddies spots a fag across the street. Or maybe they are politically conservative and are so ashamed of who they are that they consistently vote against our best interests. Keep in mind that I am not, or ever advocating outing one's self but I hardly think sticking up for another human being, female, gay, trans, or just smaller, is going to "out" anybody. It does however require courage and that is in short supply among the majority of CD's. These are the people I can't abide.

I agree and I also disagree Melissa. Agree: How hard is it to write letters, to vote, and to lobby for trans rights without outing yourself? There are a number of causes I actively support that I don't necessarily include myself in the group being supported. Also, how hard is it, really, to say to someone "I don't like that kind of talk" when someone says something anti-anybody? Disagree: I don't think that this problem is limited to CD's and I also don't think that it applies to the "majority" of CDs. Maybe I am in with a good crowd but most of the CDs, and TS for that matter, I know are pretty stand-up folks.

Debby

[Badtranny]

Disagree: I don't think that this problem is limited to CD's and I also don't think that it applies to the "majority" of CDs. Maybe I am in with a good crowd but most of the CDs, and TS for that matter, I know are pretty stand-up folks.

Well of course it's not limited to CD's but the "average" CD has no problem enjoying the perks of hard fought acceptance from the GLBT community but they will not openly support or defend alternative lifestyles because they're afraid they might be implicated. Rubbish.

The overwhelming majority of CD's that I know are also salt of the earth. I think about some of them often and wish I could see them more but they are not "average'. The very fact that we know them personally separates them because they are comfortable enough with themselves to be out and about and meet new people. My opinion is based on the population of this forum and the near constant silliness that is paraded around here. The people we know Deb, and we have common friends (except for Naya who is entirely uncommon) are exactly the kind of people I admire, respect, and praise every chance I get. People like AllySF, and Melissa Rose need to be held up as examples to emulate. Free, strong, and happy to be who they are and I was literally in awe of them just a few years ago. Naya also claims to be a CD, but I don't believe her, and RachaelOKC recently came out of the closet as TS, but they were and are fearless CD's that represent pride and authenticity. That's my girls, there's a few more but I think you get the point. ;-)

[Debglam]

The very fact that we know them personally separates them because they are comfortable enough with themselves to be out and about and meet new people. My opinion is based on the population of this forum and the near constant silliness that is paraded around here.

I can't argue with that.

[Andie Elisabeth]

There is a reason why some people identify as gender variant. It is in the no-womans land between genders that those that are gender variant find their locus of existence. There are also those, whose inner configuartion is firmly rooted in the gender binary but who do not transition.


We should frame this in gold and hang it up on the wall here. :) But the trouble with keeping something like this in mind is twofold:

1. We can't see anyone's internal configuration/motives and this is complicated by so many variables: personalities, internal & external barriers, the degree of life-long repression/denial which may result in varying degrees of romanticizing life in the opposite than birth gender.

2. It is human nature to project onto others what we know. The TSs in this forum will tend to see themselves in others, as will CDers, so depending on which side of the forum we're on, we'll have different estimates as to whether or not a sizable chunk of TGs are either true TSs who've choosen not to transition, or they are truly gender variant and it would not be in their best interests to transition. :)

So if I get this correctly when one feels Ok to be in similar state as Baarle-Nassau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baarle-Nassau), look at picture with marked borders, then this person is "just" gender variant. And on the other hand when someone feels like trapped in a middle of minefield (mines with pepperspray instead of a real bomb) with only safe passage out of it is an underground tunnel then this person is a TS? (using mines to dig the tunnel is not permitted :battingeyelashes:)

[LeaP]

I wrote to Jenny Boylan several months ago. Much to my surprise, she responded. I found her response entirely consistent with the advice so often given here - that her transition arose from her own situation, and that my decisions must be made on mine. Period. There's really little else to be said.

Lea

[Nicole Erin]

Anyways, an important thing to remember is that once you've started your transition theres not really any going back. Once you're out that's it, you're out.

Yeah no doubt, once it is out there, might as well live it best one can.

[amielts]

Well thats totally all cool. The one thing I might add is that if someone chooses to not transition then great. However if they sit around and bitch, wine, complain, and ramble on about how bad thier life is I only get annoyed. Perhaps I am cold hearted but then I have had to listen to these stories more times than I can count and I guess it gets old.
Katie

When people, especially women, have difficulty in life, we talk about it with people we trust. We women like to bitch about how bad our lives are, and we generally support each other in our talk. I guess that is therapeutic for us because sacrificing one's own personal needs for the sake of family and loved ones is a common theme in a woman's life, and it's also difficult.
Your 'cold hearted' attitude is very atypical for a woman indeed.



There was a time when I couldn't imagine anyone lying or pretending to want to transition because they were looking for fellowship or whatever, but I am beginning to think that EVERYONE is just full of crap. I see so much stuff on this forum that is so bizarre it can't possibly be true and it occurs to me that a good many of these members are just yanking our chain.

Yes, the trans community is full of deception, especially online. Still, I'd prefer to err on the side of accepting and helping rather than judging people.

[Badtranny]

Yes, the trans community is full of deception, especially online. Still, I'd prefer to err on the side of accepting and helping rather than judging people.

...well, um, "we" women tend to be very naively trusting of people who sometimes hurt our feelings because it turns out they are not genuine.

.snark.

[kellycan27]

Is this really fair? I mean, really?

My take is, if this was true then transwomen wouldn't feel they need to be stealth, would they?

Sometimes i get the impression that some of these people who constantly extoll on the virtues of being a "real" woman are trying to convince themselves as well as the rest of us. :heehee:

Kel

[Badtranny]

Sometimes i get the impression that some of these people who constantly extoll on the virtues of being a "real" woman are trying to convince themselves as well as the rest of us. :heehee:

seems almost TOO obvious to me. I'm curious to see more of her posts