A Man in a Dress

[Kierci]

How many of us ladies have gone out in public not even trying to "Pass"? I personally tend to go out half the time really trying to pass other times I just dont care I like to wear dresses, skirts and heels regardless of what others might think, although I have to admit the times I have been out as a man in a dress I have had NO adverse situations to report except for my own fears (unsubstantiated) . Lets have your stories ladies. I would love to hear that others go out mustache beard balding heads wearing skirts etc... Or maybe I am the only goober who does this I dunno. Upload pics if you have them too.

[Emberantha]

Occasionally late at night if I have to run an errand that does not require me getting out of my car, I will wear a denim skirt with a T-Shirt and clogs, no boobs, makeup or wig. Risky I guess, but comfortable.

---
Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

[vicki true]

I always try to dress to pass, never go out without makeup.

[KathrynW]

How many of us ladies have gone out in public not even trying to "Pass"? I personally tend to go out half the time really trying to pass other times I just dont care I like to wear dresses, skirts and heels regardless of what others might think
Jenny~
You just hit the nail on the head.
That's the big question. IF we're NOT passable, do WE care what others think?
If this is your attitude, I say more power to you and follow your dream. Personally, I'm not passable and I very much DO care what others say or think. This is why I've never cd-ed in public and possibly never will.

[hidden passion]

I know I would never pass, but I have long desired to go out in a skirt and heels. Other than a CD "costume" for halloween a few years ago, I've never dont it. I've thought about buying a kilt to "ease" into it, but that's not really gonna happen in Tampa.

[Sam-antha]

Hi Hiddenpassion

Kilts do not ease into it. They are men's wear
Try a skirt, low heels etc, a cape or coat, scarf round your head, glasses if you must, just get out.

ITS EASY, just go
Hugs when yu get back, or e mail me a I will give you a hug before yuo go.

[celeste26]

This is the premise of "The Lazy Cross Dresser" , not to let anything society wants to put on us bother us. The author does just that wears dresses without any demands on passing. Of course he also knows well how to glam it up when he wants, but only on his terms.

Good book to read, I bought mine from Amazon for not very much money.

[susandrea]

I posted this awhile ago, but will repeat it here as it seems appropriate. Sissy Goodwin doesn't make any attempt to "pass" as a woman, even though from what I've read he goes out dressed en femme most of the time.

The Right to Be All That You Are: An Interview with Larry “Sissy” Goodwin

Date: 22-Oct-2001
==============

-- "Fight for the right to be all that you are. " --

Residents of Douglas, WY, are used to seeing Larry "Sissy" Goodwin, 55, one-time rodeo rider, married father of two, and Vietnam veteran, wearing feminine clothes around this quiet, rugged town at the foot of the Rockies that bills itself as one of Wyoming’s "best kept secrets."

But when Goodwin went shopping for a gift for his wife in nearby Salt Lake City on a business trip while wearing a tennis skirt, security guards at the Little America Hotel reportedly ordered him to leave and then tackled him when he refused.

Goodwin threatened to sue, and to stave off a discrimination lawsuit, the hotel has settled out-of-court and provided a financial settlement, a full apology, an agreement to initiate diversity training, and termination of the manager who had been on-duty.

GenderPAC National News interviewed Mr. Goodwin at his home.

--

National News: First, why in the world did you wear a tennis dress to shop for a gift for your wife in Salt Lake City? [general laughter]

Larry “Sissy” Goodwin: Please call me “Sissy.” The answer is, I don't dress any differently in Salt Lake City or in Latin America than I do at home. Just because I go somewhere doesn’t change who I am.

NN: Aren’t you afraid of physical danger?

SG: I’ve never thought of simply being myself as being dangerous. Although I’ve had my share of difficulties.

NN: For example?

SG: I’ve been arrested in Casper and Laramie for wearing a dress. I’ve been physically assaulted twice. Once in my own front yard I was kicked in the head. Several of my teeth were kicked in and bones were broken in my mouth.

The other time was at the Kansas City Airport. This man just walked up and blind-sided me, just sucker-punched me. He split my ear wide open, and I was bleeding down the side of my head. Airport Security was right on top of it, they arrested him immediately.

My plane was held until I could change clothes and wash the blood off, because I couldn't board all bloody.

NN: As a former rodeo rider, Vietnam veteran, and the father of two, aren't you tempted to say “I can't be out, I’m not brave enough, people won't accept me.”

SG: I’ve experienced all the problems one might face. But I’ve been dressing in public for 30 years now. I find that if you’re honest about who and what you are, people will accept you.

NN: What reactions do you get?

SG: I get all kinds. Some people invariably make assumptions about the type of person you are, your values or sexuality, based on appearance. For instance, I’m constantly being called “faggot” or “queer.”

NN: Which once again shows how gender and sexuality are linked.

SG: The irony is that many more heterosexuals cross dress than homosexuals.

NN: How have things been on your job?

SG: I’m a Control Operator at coal-fired plant here in central Wyoming. I monitor a BTG, a Boiler Turbine Generator. When I interviewed, I was wearing a blouse and levis. The hiring process was extensive, and the lady who interviewed me had no problem.

NN: Has management given you any trouble?

SG: Eighteen years ago they tried to fire me because of my dress. They said come to work masculine or be fired.

I complied for about 3 months and then I had a nervous breakdown. I saw a therapist and found out through counseling that I am the way I am and that that’s okay. About that time the union stepped in and said, “This is a good employee, he’s skilled and experienced.” We went into binding arbitration with the company and when we were done I was allowed to keep my job and my dress.

NN: Have things gotten any better at work?

SG: Remember, I started here in 1974. Since then I’ve gotten lots of rejections, and often been shunned. But most of those who wouldn't speak to me were older and they've retired. Out of 180 people at the plant, I’d say only two or three have a problem with me now. I’ve been here for 27 years. So I’d say that’s progress right there.

NN: Is your wife supportive?

SG: In 1967 I’d been an aircraft mechanic in the Air Force, stationed at Anderson AFB, Guam. I was discharged when an officer found me sleeping in a nightie.

My wife -- at the time my fiancé -- when we first started getting serious, I told her all about me. I’d had a previous marriage fail because of my mode of dress. But she accepted me for who I am, and we’re still together to this day. We have two great children, a son and daughter.

NN: How did you identify to her?

SG: I wasn't sure what to call myself. I liked to dress in women’s clothing, but I hadn't heard the word transvestite, and it’s acquired such negative connotations. Transgender didn’t exist yet. So I called myself a GEM a “Gender Enhanced Male.” I still use that.

NN: What would you like to say to the average crossdresser on-the-street, who’s still afraid to come out of the closet?

SG: We are normal, I’d like to tell them. This is normal. Grasp on to all that you are. We are all individuals, and it’s okay to be different. Go out in public. Confide in your family and friends. Don’t hold your head in shame. Crossdressers should be respected just like any other human being. Just be yourself.

By coming out I gained a lot of self-esteem, I’ve learned I’m not a pervert. And since coming out I’ve earned my Bachelors degree in Mathematics, built an aircraft, and joined the board of my local ACLU. You, too, can lead a successful, whole, happy life, and be true to your values at the same time.

Fight for your rights. Become an activist. Fight for the right to be all that you are.

NN: Thank you.

[Mr. Goodwin has since sent GNN the following addendum: “Since the terrible events on the East coast I have noticed people are more polarized. That is they tend to be suspicious and hateful to anyone who is different. I have had more derogatory comments directed at me the last two weeks than I have had in many months. I am concerned about people’s travel arrangements. Having been arrested three times for wearing girl's clothes I am fairly cynical when it comes to anyone in uniform and the National Guard will be less educated about diversity issues. I hope people will be careful!”]

[Rachel Morley]

Hi Jenny,

Gosh, I would so love to be able to go out as a guy in a skirt, strappy sandals and a girly t-shirt but as a guy with only a little make up (only mascara?) and no wig. You know.... just enjoying the clothes. But I have to be realistic about it.

Now, I know this sort of thought process is not for everyone, and it's not "just the clothes" for everyone out there. In fact, if I was honest, it's actually not "just the clothes" for me either but at times it sure does feel like it!!

I do often go out as a "feminized male" but I don't wear skirts or heels etc. I usually wear low rise boot cut jeans with 2" high boots, a satin trimmed plain colored t-shirt and a classic high buttoning cardigan with small pearl stud earrings and no wig or make up (with of course, a bra and panties underneath). Pretty girly for a guy or what!

Admittedly, I do sometimes get a few stares but for the most part people leave me alone.

[KathrynW]

SG: I’ve experienced all the problems one might face. But I’ve been dressing in public for 30 years now. I find that if you’re honest about who and what you are, people will accept you.
Oh Yeah...it really sounds like he's been ACCEPTED as many times as he's had the crap kicked out of him. I dunno, maybe he enjoys pain...sheesh... :rolleyes:

[Tabathasiren]

Great thread. Very interesting. I hope to get "out" soon

[Sharon]

I always strive to look my best and most fem when I go out, but if this is what you enjoy, then I'm happy that you have been so successful at it.

[Crown Royal]

Out in Public

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have gotten to the point that I don't care what people think about how I dress or look, so on a recent auto trip, I dressed in skirt and blouse, complete with bra, forms and stockings, and just went. I got out several times to pump gas, and even went into a rest stop to use the (men's) restroom. No one was in there when I went in, but another male driver drove up and got out of his van as I was headed back to my car.

The first night, still fully dressed, I went into several motels before finding one with a vacancy. There were two females, the clerk and a security person, in the lobby when I registered. Neither acted as if anything were out of the ordinary. Ditto checking out early the next AM.

The second night, the lobby was full when I first arrived, so I waited until there was no longer a line at the registration desk before entering. Same non-reaction as the first night. After settling in my room, I went back to the lobby, where I watched TV and read the local newspaper. Several people came and went while I was seated there, without paying any attention to me, even though they clearly saw me.

The only double take was early the next morning when I was loading the car. I walked past a man who politely spoke, smiled, and did a double take as we passed each other. I think that it was the heels. No harm done, and I really didn't care what he was thinking.

As the ad says, "Just do it!"


CR

[Lauren_T]

Oh Yeah...it really sounds like he's been ACCEPTED as many times as he's had the crap kicked out of him. I dunno, maybe he enjoys pain...sheesh... :rolleyes: Oh, c'mon! :eek: someone who is constantly, defiantly 'out there,' experiencing only 3 incidents in thirty years? And living in Wyoming?? I mean! She's encountered how many hundreds - or thousands? - of people in roughly 10,000 days of CDing, and that's all that's happened??

Hell, I've been punched out more frequently than that for simply having the wrong accent! I think old 'Sissy's tale is strong anecdotal evidence of how little risk most crossdressers really have! :)

[HaleyPink2000]

Why would I dress if I can't do it all the way? I am at the point that I want the complete effect of being a Woman when dressed.
Every item must be just so and I must act the part also. Down to moody LOL!
Haley:)

[Jesse69]

Thanks for the Larry Sissy Goodwin post - that was interesting. But to me going out as a man in a dress is pure social suicide. I would never do that, nor even dress anything sissy - like while in male mode. If I have to go out in femme I would do everything to pass and not get noticed, but I never go out in drag.

I saw a man in a skirt walk by in my neighborhoods and he got several laughs.

[KathrynW]

Hell, I've been punched out more frequently than that for simply having the wrong accent! I think old 'Sissy's tale is strong anecdotal evidence of how little risk most crossdressers really have!

Well, everyone has the right to their own opinion. I think if you want to do what "sissy" does, you'd better be willing to accept the consequences of your actions.

Thanks for the Larry Sissy Goodwin post - that was interesting. But to me going out as a man in a dress is pure social suicide. I would never do that, nor even dress anything sissy - like while in male mode. If I have to go out in femme I would do everything to pass and not get noticed
Exactly...
YMMV, but personally I have absolutely no desire to be seen as a man in a dress. I think the whole concept of doing this is ridiculous. If I can't be passable, I won't be in public. Yep...this is strictly my opinion on this.

[Lauren_T]

I have yet to wear a dress or skirt (do skorts count?) in public, but I now wear lipstick (a very natural, matte mauve) and earrings all the time, not to mention my shaved legs and arms. Usually I wear Birks, which are unisex, but I also have a number of clogs and sandals with 1" to 2" heels that I wear regularly, and unless I have physical hands-on work to do, I'm always in a girls' blouse and shorts. I've gone shopping twice carrying a bag.

No one has yet to say Word One... and I live in the most blatantly macho big city I've ever seen or heard of.

I may bitch about the caveman attitudes here towards women, CDs and, for a'that, anything remotely feminine; but it's really just an attitude, because I get more looks from girls (of 18 to 28 or so) than from guys... and most all of the few looks I get from girls are either simple curiosity or approval! :D

[KathrynW]

No one has yet to say Word One... and I live in the most blatantly macho big city I've ever seen or heard of.
I may bitch about the caveman attitudes here towards women, CDs and, for a'that, anything remotely feminine; but it's really just an attitude, because I get more looks from girls (of 18 to 28 or so) than from guys... and most all of the few looks I get from girls are either simple curiosity or approval! :D
"big city" would be the key words here. You will very seldom see this kind of thing in any smaller town. If you did see it, that person would be assumed to be a homosexual. Speaking for myself, it has to be all one way or the other. The androgynous thing doesn't work for me at all. But hey, it it works for you...then I say "go for it". ;)

[susandrea]

Oh, c'mon! :eek: someone who is constantly, defiantly 'out there,' experiencing only 3 incidents in thirty years? And living in Wyoming?? I mean! She's encountered how many hundreds - or thousands? - of people in roughly 10,000 days of CDing, and that's all that's happened??

Hell, I've been punched out more frequently than that for simply having the wrong accent! I think old 'Sissy's tale is strong anecdotal evidence of how little risk most crossdressers really have! :)


Read the interview again. Sissy has gone through far more than "3 incidents". Job trouble, constantly being called "faggot".... and more.

He has, however, pushed through it all to stay true to himself and claimed a hard-won place in his town. Takes a lot of guts.

And to everyone:

Also, while some CDs feel they absolutely MUST pass "or else", there are those who know they never will but refuse to put away that part of themselves and should be supported for their strength. After all, there are so many levels of femininity (or lack thereof) in women, why not men and CDs? Very fey-acting gay men go through this every day and have to prove themselves constantly to be accepted.

It is very true that where you live has so much to do with your chances of being accepted or not. In Manhattan you'd probably go all day and only raise a few eyebrows, as there are far more unusual people around than a CD. (Go to the Villiage on a Friday night). But if you live in a small town in Alabama....

I've read where many "out" CDs recommend you move to a more accepting place if you really must to live the way you want (or really want to live the way you must). Think about it, you'd probably do it for a job or a spouse, why not yourself and your whole life? I know people get "stuck in" to situations they feel trapped in, god knows I have, but sometimes it takes extraordinary measures to live in an extraordinary way. A lifetime of "half-living" sucks. I've done it. It's sooo not worth it.

One thing to do is ask yourself, "If I only had one more year to live, what would I do differently"? Then do it! :) It may not work, or you may have to try again and again, but at the very least you know you've done all you can. I know just from living nearly 45 years that you have to DEMAND respect as it never, ever comes to you on a silver platter or in an engraved invitation.

Look at Grace! She's pushed the envelope in a very brave way and is making wonderful progress. :angel: And I posted a few weeks ago I met a "man in a skirt" where I work, and he was regarded with curiosity and delight! It was almost as if a rockstar walked in. Seriously, the women lined up to talk to him. I'm sure he got a few sneers, but he told me himself he rarely encountered trouble, and I could see that his very essence gave off a strength of character that protected him and put strangers at ease at the same time.

I say, if you want to be a "man in a skirt" then go for it. Go for whatever makes you happy and complete, and stay true to yourself. Even if it means an occasional shit-kicking in this stupid world. Everyone gets the shit-kicked out of them for one thing or another, it may as well be for something you must have. The alternative? Spending your entire life wondering "what if" and whining about how crappy and unfair it all is. Well, that sucks. Personally, I'd rather go for it and get the shit-kicked out of me a few times. And I have. And I will again.

:sb:

[Lauren_T]

"big city" would be the key words here. You will very seldom see this kind of thing in any smaller town. If you did see it, that person would be assumed to be a homosexual. Speaking for myself, it has to be all one way or the other. The androgynous thing doesn't work for me at all. But hey, it it works for you...then I say "go for it". ;) Oh, you're right... There's nothing like the invincible stupidity of small-town minds. :eek: I only make an issue of Houston because I'm constantly amazed that people can maintain that small-town idiocy while living in the fourth-largest metro area in America... Which is why I call Houston 'The World's Largest One-Horse Town.' :p

[Lauren_T]

Read the interview again. Sissy has gone through far more than "3 incidents". Job trouble, constantly being called "faggot".... and more.I should have been more precise - I meant 3 incidents involving physical altercations... Words are just so much bullshit and most of us, even oversensitive types like me, can disregard them...


...
I've read where many "out" CDs recommend you move to a more accepting place if you really must to live the way you want (or really want to live the way you must). Think about it, you'd probably do it for a job or a spouse, why not yourself and your whole life? I know people get "stuck in" to situations they feel trapped in, god knows I have, but sometimes it takes extraordinary measures to live in an extraordinary way. A lifetime of "half-living" sucks. I've done it. It's sooo not worth it.I myself have recommended this to others numerous times. Staying in a toxic environment corrodes the soul. Better to pick up and move - even at significant sacrifice - than suffer endless psychological oppression. It costs money, time and more to transplant oneself, but it is repaid many times over in the massive increase in one's quality of life!

Few people truly realise how vastly improved their lives can be in a more appropriate setting - until they do it...

[susandrea]

I myself have recommended this to others numerous times. Staying in a toxic environment corrodes the soul. Better to pick up and move - even at significant sacrifice - than suffer endless psychological oppression. It costs money, time and more to transplant oneself, but it is repaid many times over in the massive increase in one's quality of life!

Few people truly realise how vastly improved their lives can be in a more appropriate setting - until they do it...

Yes, and while it isn't easy or comfortable, it's worth it. Even if you try really hard and fail, at least at the end of your life you can look back and be proud of the fact that you gave it your all.:thumbsup:

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Like any other group that's "different" from the social "norm" (whatever that really is), we're not going to gain acceptance until we're out in public demanding respect. There is often a price to be paid by being public -- especially by the pioneers. But the question is how steep is the price compares to the price we're paying by staying in the closet. Or why I'm slowly inching toward coming out.

Much of that price may be in our imagination -- admittedly I live in a tolerant area, but I've generally had good experiences, so I'm thinking that people may be more accepting than we give them credit for. Of course, if you're in Wyoming, things are undoubtedly different, but there's nothing that says you can't relocate to friendier turf. Gays and lesbians did exactly that with SF and having a "beachhead" allowed them a public space to fight for acceptance no matter where one lives.

[Amelie]

I should have been more precise - I meant 3 incidents involving physical altercations... Words are just so much bullshit and most of us, even oversensitive types like me, can disregard them...

I myself have recommended this to others numerous times. Staying in a toxic environment corrodes the soul. Better to pick up and move - even at significant sacrifice - than suffer endless psychological oppression. It costs money, time and more to transplant oneself, but it is repaid many times over in the massive increase in one's quality of life!

Few people truly realise how vastly improved their lives can be in a more appropriate setting - until they do it...


This is something that I totally agree with. If someone here at the forum wants to go out dressed but they live in areas that they feel don't let them do this,,,, then move to someplace that you can dress. Many immigrants over the years left their homelands for a better place to live, sacrifying a lot, leaving family and friends. Cds can do the same. Move.

Also we are kinda like,,,,ah, grown-ups on this forum, why shouldname calling be such a problem, so what if someone says you are weird,, homo,,, sicko,,, so what. OK, it might be different if someone is violently attacked, but I have been on this forum for awhile now and most of the problems I hear is Cds saying people call them names. Name calling seems like such a childesh excuse for not going out, I would never let name calling bother me, it's to silly of a thing to worry about.

[Davinia]

Been out once. Shat myself. Love your attitude. Wish I was that brave.

[KathrynW]

I say, if you want to be a "man in a skirt" then go for it. Go for whatever makes you happy and complete, and stay true to yourself. Even if it means an occasional shit-kicking in this stupid world. Everyone gets the shit-kicked out of them for one thing or another, it may as well be for something you must have. The alternative? Spending your entire life wondering "what if" and whining about how crappy and unfair it all is. Well, that sucks. Personally, I'd rather go for it and get the shit-kicked out of me a few times. And I have. And I will again.
If your convictions regarding cd-ing are really *that* strong, I congratulate you. However, I think the number of people willing to risk physical abuse at any moment, will be very few.

This is something that I totally agree with. If someone here at the forum wants to go out dressed but they live in areas that they feel don't let them do this,,,, then move to someplace that you can dress.
Relocating is not an option for everyone. Sure...if you’re single, no responsibilities whatsoever...yeah, go for it. I suppose it also comes down to just how much importance you place on cd-ing in your life.

[Bridget]

Yes, i do often wear bits and pieces of women's apparel. Mostly pants and jeans. You would think that the fact that they are quite tight against my thighs and flare out a little at the bottom would raise some eyebrows, but most of the time, nobody notices. i often paint my nails as well, but it could be consider more emo than cd.

[Kierci]

Kool I am not the only one out here, Bring on more stories ladies I would love to hear them, Hell post pics if you have them

[uknowhoo]

Great thread.
Thanks jenny, ladies.
(that's all :o )
Tammi

[azraelle]

You might want to take a look at the forum found here (hhplace.org) (http://www.hhplace.org/).
I have been "mixing and matching" as I like to call it, or "freestyling" as members of hhplace refer to it for many years. That said, I have never had a desire to wear skirts or dresses--even in private, don't really know why, except that I find that I like to wear what I find attractive on women, and very few dresses/skirts hold a candle in my eyes to a curvy girl in sexy pants and blouse, high heeled boots, etc. Which is my preferred public attire, sometimes even at work, about half the time in public otherwise.

[Dena]

Going shopping in Salt Lake City in a tennis skirt?! I wonder
what he was wearing when he got clocked in the head. If a
guy wore a sarong (?), one of those wrap skirts that goes to
your ankles, I'd bet he would get close to no reaction from
the general public.

[KathrynW]

If a guy wore a sarong (?), one of those wrap skirts that goes to your ankles, I'd bet he would get close to no reaction from
the general public.
Think again....

[KathrynW]

I'm 58--older than most of you. I've gone out in public MANY times in full regalia: long blonde wig, short mini-dress with bra and breast forms, stockings or panty-hose, come-***-me-5" pumps, perfume, half-slips-- in other words, like a **** on the make. AND, I STILL WORE MY MUSTACHE!
geeesh...I'm getting queasy just reading this....

I could tell you'all ,but I'm getting drunk.
oh boy...and who would have guessed you'd be doing something like that? :eek:

[Jesse69]

Also - when I see men in women's clothes still looking like men - I think that's ugly. If dressed up fully in drag trying to pass - I think it's amusing. But I hate the look of real butch dyke lesbians or women with short hair (Men's cut).

[HaleyPink2000]

I would rather try to dress to the 9's if I have to let others see me. I want to be as femme as possible most of the time. Why would I want to dress and not wear everything I could. At one time it was all I could do to wear a bra and panties. But now I dress all the time I am at home and dress femme when shopping. I have noticed I walk diffrent these days, sit diffrently and even talk with more sensitivity in my voice than I used to. Most think I am 20 ish or a female on the phone. But I don't really care. This is the rest of my life. I'm 50 ish and my Father just died in September. That means my ticket is probably next. Should I not do some of the things I want to do? Should I not dress as I want to since I have paid my dues to this country. Viet Nam Vet, 2 grown children, 5 grand children, taxpayer LOLOL... Gawd I'm bad! Ok, yeah I do feel I at least should spend the time I have from now on doing some of what I want to do. That includes dressing in the clothing I want to wear.

Haley:)

[Kierci]

All the power to you Haley