Mannerisms of the other gender

[Lesley_Roberta]

First sorry for the rapid thread postings, but I find myself needing to hear a lot of views on a lot of things which I have kept pent up a long time.

Does anyone have troubles relating to all the things you would have never learned over time as the other gender?

So I was at a friends one day, wearing shorts (guys shorts). Put my foot up on a chair to tie up my shoes. Then it hit me, hmm in this pose, if I had a skirt on, I just flashed my panties to anyone facing this direction. Then I started to wonder, 'how do girls put on shoes in skirts?'. We so as to not advertise their underwear (assumes girls don't wish to I guess).

I was told, well the trick is you wear the right shoes ie shoes you can slip into.
Ok makes sense. But that led to me thinking, ok shoe shopping, I wonder, how hard is it to walk into a store and try on ladies shoes? Do you dress as a female just so you don't look odd trying on women's shoes?

How DOES a guy shop for women's clothing? What's involved in asking to try something on if you are not dressed as a female? And do the bathroom rules apply ie use the men's change rooms only? Which will be a problem considering they have the clothes in the ladies department.

And I have asked myself, am I anatomically pre conditioned to sit like a male? How much trouble is it to unlearn sitting like a guy? Because in a skirt, well I at least know I will have to sit properly. But I have actually tried that on some occasions while out shopping, and damn it, how do they do it? All of my leg muscles seem to bitch about it quite a lot.

Thus far my only success has been bubble baths. I have always been a bath person, not a shower person. But then a life time of pain has made me appreciate a very hot soak. Now I just use soap made for ladies, and take the effort to see to it I have a lot of bubbles. It's funny, because my wife doesn't like bubble baths at all.
But I also wonder, is my body chemically uncooperative where carefully designed scents are concerned?
Since I have been enjoying some rather nice smelling soaps, I have found I actually don't need anti persperant to stay 'clean' smelling ie the opposite of what a man will smell like after an hour sweating through some active sex. I rather like that it even has a side effect of making my clothes stay nice smelling longer.

I should also add, I rather HATE the smell of scents made for men. Yuck, what do they do to make ladies like the stuff? Am I just biologically incapable of liking odors meant only for actual females? Do I like female scents really just because they were always meant to please a male in the first place? Not that it is really important to me liking using them.

But will perfumes work on me correctly? Or will my body's normal chemicals just mangle the scents?

And the tricky question. Ok if I dress like a lady, and I smell like a lady, and I am seeking to be mistaken for a lady, because inside I feel like a lady, how do I react to a guy thinking I am a lady? (men are so dense, so nope, I can actually see guys not knowing the difference).
I don't want a man.
But that is causing no shortage of short circuits in my brain.
Men are supposed to like ladies, ladies are supposed to like men (well that's the hetero take on it at least).
If I am so sure I am a lady inside, shouldn't I want a man?
Am I a lesbian trapped in a male body.
Does that make me a very awkward homosexual?

Shit some days I almost think it would be easier if I WAS homosexual.
But I am NOT.
I don't have any problems with our world's homosexual people by the way.
You are just what you are, no more unusual than blondes, or people of different colour of those that write left handed.

I'm not going to bore anyone though with my extensive knowledge of the human mind (simply because it hasn't helped me yet either). I don't think my sexuality can be summed up by the chemicals my body generates, and the organs I had at birth. 'Minds' are so not that simple.

I won't mind people focusing on any one part of this post and not the rest if you only have a comment on a portion of it. Just trying to limit how many threads I pen in one hour.

[Kate Simmons]

It's kind of hard to drink from a fire hydrant Hon. Many of the things you ask about take years to find answers for and one size does not fit all in that department. Best to start by getting to know yourself and your feelings and if you stay on the Forum many of your questions will be answered. After awhile gender becomes somewhat fluid and you find you can actually choose what you want to do and who you want to be. It's not an easy row to hoe though as many here can attest to. The only sure way not to make it a crap shoot is to make it a choice instead of letting it remain a compulsion. Works for me.:battingeyelashes::)

[Rebecca Star]

Really honest advice, Kate, thanks!

I'll second that with...When one stops trying to mimic generic female idiosyncrasy, instead goes with the flow of who our altered ego is, the female in us is given life. What follows is truly amazing :)

On the flip side I've been spoilt. Worked in manely a female oriented industry for years, if you weren't female, the general opinon was you must be gay. Also 95% of my friends are female, so maybe being around them so much, their little traits, how they sit, interact and so forth has washed off on me.

As other ladies here have suggested, look and learn, is a helpful guide.

[Vickie_CDTV]

If you don't want to cross your legs (or physically cannot as I can't) keep your knees together and cross at the ankles; if you cannot stay with your ankles crossed very long, keep your knees and legs together (remember, not all women can cross their legs, and some choose not to.) The nice thing about long skirts is that if you have to keep your legs spread a bit you have more leeway that you do with a short tight skirt. When you sit at a table with a long tablecloth, put your legs under the tablecloth (away from view) and you can sit with your legs more spread too.

If you indeed pass and look attractive, you may have a problem with straight males. Get a ring that looks like a wedding ring (cubic zirconia will do) and wear it to help indicate you are "taken". If you don't pass (as I don't), on the bright side you probably won't have to work about straight males bothering you. I think attitude has something to do with it too, if you don't act interested they will generally leave you alone.

[mykhelee]

I agree with the other ladies...
I try on shoes in full drab...I have even shopped at several stores where the SA has to go and get the shoes from the back. I have never had an SA get snotty or snippy with me. I used to shop for foundation garments and shoes at WalMart but have had a few cashiers make catty remarks.
In most department stores such as Target or JCP just take the item over to the appropriate sexes fitting room and go on in. With the shape the economy is in the store wants to move product not offend potential shoppers.
You are not the only one with issues sweetie, we all have our own plate of goodies to pick at.
Peace,
Khelli

[ReineD]

And the tricky question. Ok if I dress like a lady, and I smell like a lady, and I am seeking to be mistaken for a lady, because inside I feel like a lady, how do I react to a guy thinking I am a lady? (men are so dense, so nope, I can actually see guys not knowing the difference).
I don't want a man.

You say, "No thanks, I'm not interested". Or, "Thanks, but I'm in a relationship".

[Miriam-J]

There's good advice on here already from Kate and Vickie, but here's one other item ... Observe, observe, observe. When you're out in public, even in guy mode, pay attention to how the females around you handle each situation - but realize that even they aren't consistent with one another. The difficult part of this is doing it without appearing to be a predator, but it can be done if you're casual and don't stare. It's even easier if you have some female friends who can help you figure it all out (my wife has been great for this).

As for crossing legs, keep in mind that the ladies have two advantages: they're usually more limber and they don't have certain anatomical parts between their legs that yet in the way. For most of 'us' it's a lot easier to just do as Vickie suggested.

Only you can know how where you are on the male-to-female spectrum, but it sounds to me like you still have a lot of 'guy' in you, like me. Take it easy and just try to sense your own feelings and reactions. There's nothing wrong with appreciating floral scents and softer styles. You might even take a look at one or two of the books on the topic (my favorite: Help, My Husband Wears My Clothes - good, even if you're not married). These will help you to sort through your feelings and appreciate our alternative forms of 'normal'.

Good luck, and I look forward to hearing more from you here as you progress your understanding and expression.

Miriam

[Lesley_Roberta]

Thanks for the replies.

I guess this will generate a chuckle. I have to remember, I am sort of talking to ladies, and yet not :) So I guess I can read your thoughts, while at the same time wondering, am I talking to a man or a lady :)

Good point about the ring. Then again, I have known for some time, married just attracts guys that like the forbidden. Might work for me as much as against me. Well I'd like to dream of looking female enough a guy would actually mistake me for one.

Can't imagine looking THAT good though.

It also occurred to me, I wonder, wearing a wedding ring, and a woman looking at me and thinking, but that is a guy, and pondering, but he has a wife as well.

I wonder how many of the forum are like me, married and with kids.

[ReineD]

I wonder how many of the forum are like me, married and with kids.

A whole bunch of people. :)

The majority of crossdressers are heterosexual, like you. Doesn't mean some don't get into fantasies sometimes, but hetero, I gather is the norm.

[JessHaust]

I wear a rather large CZ wedding ring, and still get hit on. One guy followed me to my car, I just turned looked right in his eyes and say 'no' with my meanest look. He stopped in his tracks.

As for shopping, keep reading here and you will see that you can shop for anything you like, en drab or femme, stores want your money and are not in business to enforce social norms.

Mannerisms, the title of this thread, are a different story. I was lucky enough to have a 20 something daughter coach me. At first I think I did everything from standing to breathing wrong! She straightened me out! Find a GG friend to help, they learn these things in middle school while we guys were trying unsuccessfully to be cool.

[Tina B.]

That's a lot, but on those shoes, a lady sits on that chair, bends over and ties her shoe, modesty intact.
Oh, and as to perfumes, they work different on everyone, depends on body chemistry, my wife tried sample after sample to find a scent she liked on her, I've always worn Chanel #5 and love the way it smells on me, you just have to find your scent.
Tina B.

[JaneSmith]

First sorry for the rapid thread postings, but I find myself needing to hear a lot of views on a lot of things which I have kept pent up a long time.

Does anyone have troubles relating to all the things you would have never learned over time as the other gender?

So I was at a friends one day, wearing shorts (guys shorts). Put my foot up on a chair to tie up my shoes. Then it hit me, hmm in this pose, if I had a skirt on, I just flashed my panties to anyone facing this direction. Then I started to wonder, 'how do girls put on shoes in skirts?'. We so as to not advertise their underwear (assumes girls don't wish to I guess).

Many/most? women seem to have almost a phobia about accidentally revealing their underclothing. Just do a few few Google searches for "visible panty line" to find out how much time women obsess about things like that (sometimes worried over "lines" that even somebody staring at behind might miss. Sigh....

On the other hand deliberately appearing to accidentally reveal underclothing can be a powerful seduction technique, and one most women are probably aware of, given how frequently it is used in movies.




I was told, well the trick is you wear the right shoes ie shoes you can slip into.
Ok makes sense. But that led to me thinking, ok shoe shopping, I wonder, how hard is it to walk into a store and try on ladies shoes? Do you dress as a female just so you don't look odd trying on women's shoes?

You can. but you don't need to. It does not take very long to slip your foot into most women's shoes, so you can try on several pretty quickly, even if you include walking a bit in them. That is is very strk contrast to most men's shoes, which take much longer to put on when new (untangling, adjusting and tying laces, etc).


How DOES a guy shop for women's clothing?

it depends. If you are ballsy enough you just go in, find what you want, and buy it, not caring what other people might think. Admittledly this can be difficult. I've tend to leave if any women are around.


What's involved in asking to try something on if you are not dressed as a female?

If you can get up enough nerve, the best approach is to simply ask, much like you would in the men's department.


And do the bathroom rules apply ie use the men's change rooms only? Which will be a problem considering they have the clothes in the ladies department.

That depends almost entirely on store policy and the sales associate in charge of the dressing rooms. I've heard stores of people dressed as men wanted to try on a dress being turned away from the women's department, and I've also heard stories of male presenting guests being turned away from the men's changing room, but other times being encouraged to use the women's changing rooms. I've also heard of male-presenting individuals being turned away from the men's dressing rooms if they bring women's clothing.

Your best bet is to simply ask the sales associate (if you can muster up the courage to do so (I still can't, but I'm relatively new to this)) or to use gender neutral changing rooms if any exist.

I'd answer more of your questions, but I'm getting tired of writing this post. Perhaps some other time.

[RADER]

Jess is correct;
If you want to learn about being a female, get a 20 girl, or better yet a teenager, they have a build
in persona that can tell a cross dresser a mile away by how they move. Watch them you will learn
how to very quickly.
See at that age, they are subconsciously learning the craft on how to trap a man, for the use of being
a family, so go back to school and learn from the experts.

[Chrissy]

Interest questions. For one your wife should be and probably would be a great model for you as far as your mannerisms go. I'd love to have a woman take me under her wing for feminine training. Your questions on your sexuality is the same as mine. Even though I want to dress as a woman I want to have relationships and sex with a woman. I don't think that we should worry about it to much but accept it because our brains are just wired that way.

[Frédérique]

And I have asked myself, am I anatomically pre conditioned to sit like a male? How much trouble is it to unlearn sitting like a guy? Because in a skirt, well I at least know I will have to sit properly.

As soon as you put the skirt on, you will automatically do the “right” thing. Your days of sitting like a guy are over. Its called vulnerability, and it can be a wonderful, humbling feeling, in fact vive la différence!
:clap:


And the tricky question. Ok if I dress like a lady, and I smell like a lady, and I am seeking to be mistaken for a lady, because inside I feel like a lady, how do I react to a guy thinking I am a lady? (men are so dense, so nope, I can actually see guys not knowing the difference). I don't want a man. But that is causing no shortage of short circuits in my brain. Men are supposed to like ladies, ladies are supposed to like men (well that's the hetero take on it at least). If I am so sure I am a lady inside, shouldn't I want a man? Am I a lesbian trapped in a male body. Does that make me a very awkward homosexual?

My first reaction is that you should compress your thoughts and deal with each issue separately, but, under the circumstances, I understand your enthusiasm. Some MtF crossdressers seek to be mistaken for a lady, and some don’t – to some it’s all about “passing,” and to others dressing is a kind of walking Zen. Some CD’ers dress to attract men, and some don’t, in fact many men who dress as women are heterosexual and very masculine – you may bump into a few during your time here. Just because you dress as a woman, and society ASSUMES you’re homosexual, does not mean that is the case, or ever will be the case – the reality is infinitely more subtle, but these “tags,” for lack of a better word, persist. Also, I don’t subscribe to this “lady inside” notion, preferring to be ME at all times, and dress accordingly. All of these ideas are worthy of in-depth discussion, indeed they have already been discussed ad infinitum. I might add that ALL men are not as dense as you say – if they were, how would any of them get in touch with this “other world” of tactile, hedonistic, and sensual pleasures?
:battingeyelashes:


…some days I almost think it would be easier if I WAS homosexual. But I am NOT. I don't have any problems with our world's homosexual people by the way. You are just what you are, no more unusual than blondes, or people of different colour of those that write left handed.

This statement reads like, “I DO have a problem with homosexuals, but I must cover my tracks and sound tolerant.” I assume, by what you’ve written, that you are worried about being GAY, and concerned where your “interest” in crossdressing is leading you – is this correct? I can make an amusing statement of my own right here, but I’ll save that for another thread. A lot of MtF crossdressers (the heterosexual masculine types I mentioned earlier) have a BIG problem with this “connection” with the gay community, but I don’t know what they’re afraid of. I used to say “You would KNOW if you were homosexual or not…” but I once got a reply from an iconic MtF crossdresser on this board who said (wrote) something like: “You really don’t know for certain.” This, coming from a mature individual who is a true human explorer! So, I would now say that you aren’t necessarily what you think you are – in other words, back to SQUARE ONE. That idea is somewhat comforting, I feel…

[kellycan27]

On the other hand deliberately appearing to accidentally reveal underclothing can be a powerful seduction technique, and one most women are probably aware of, given how frequently it is used in movies.

The most powerful seduction technique a woman has is to merely........ "show up":battingeyelashes:

Kel

[Beth Mays]

I wonder how many of the forum are like me, married and with kids.

Married
.. 3 kids all grown

[Lesley_Roberta]

This statement reads like, “I DO have a problem with homosexuals, but I must cover my tracks and sound tolerant.”

No, Frédérique, I might have merely said it poorly. How comfortable am I with the homosexual community? Well for one, I wish they enjoyed all the legal rights that religion is so uninterested in giving them. I think I could easily enjoy playing with the wife in full view of a homosexual male couple, and not mind a bit if they liked looking at me for their own reasons. They don't make me uncomfortable at all. Their thing is just not my thing in the same way I don't like white chocolate. I only like milk chocolate.


Interest questions. For one your wife should be and probably would be a great model for you as far as your mannerisms go. I'd love to have a woman take me under her wing for feminine training. Your questions on your sexuality is the same as mine. Even though I want to dress as a woman I want to have relationships and sex with a woman. I don't think that we should worry about it to much but accept it because our brains are just wired that way.

My wife wouldn't be amused at this, but I have told her, I often think she'd make a good husband, as she seems to have a lot of the cliche habits. Well at least cliche as I have learned them over the years as an male. Takes one to know one :)

But there are so many things a man can't know, as you have to actually be a female to know what it's like. Never experienced anything connected with menstruation. All I experienced of pregnancy was the experience that caused her to get pregnant to begin with. Certainly don't know what passing a child out a vagina feels like.

[KellyJameson]

I like wearing skorts myself if I'm playing tennis or doing anything active and save skirts for days with no wind and where I know I'm just going to be walking. Skirts are nice on hot days for staying cool otherwise I prefer pants and I have found the feeling of being half naked when wearing a skirt always seems to automatically lock my knees together when I'm sitting.

I agree with you about mens cologne, most make my eyes water and my throat close but finally there are some new scents that I'm finding pleasant so there is hope.

The scent of your body has more to do with diet,age, exercise and drinking plenty of water followed by good hygiene in my experience than what is placed on the surface of the skin. In general a healthy lifestyle smells good.

I take it as a compliment when men notice me unless their asking for sex in the myriad, lurid mysterious ways of a man on the prowl. If you are not now you will quickly become very astute in being able to tell the difference between a sincere compliment and a prelude to seduction. It is similar to the automatic locking together of your knees when wearing a skirt and born from your survival instincts.

For some sex preference seems fixed but for many it appears fluid and open to change, my own head seems to be tied in knots at the moment concerning this so I have no advice other than to not be afraid of new experiences if they offer the possibility of deeper self awareness and do not cause a moral crisis you may not recover from.

[Kathy4ever]

This is an intersting answer. This might explain to me how the other day I met neighbors friend who was in her 20's. The neighbor was laughing because her friend asked her if I was gay. I was wearing my tight capris and she said i walked a little funny. My neighbor told her no he is not but he is into lady gaga.LOL. I was happy that I must be starting to show some good movement from my practicing. I finally got to practice for an hour as I just walked the neighborhood with my fitflops, capris,pearls neclace and pearl ankle bracelet andpearl earings with diamons around itand toes still painted and now my fingernails a nice fruity purple and tank top with the bra sewn in. So I have to say if you don't want to be found out avoid those girls that age.
Jess is correct;
If you want to learn about being a female, get a 20 girl, or better yet a teenager, they have a build
in persona that can tell a cross dresser a mile away by how they move. Watch them you will learn
how to very quickly.
See at that age, they are subconsciously learning the craft on how to trap a man, for the use of being
a family, so go back to school and learn from the experts.

[kellycan27]

Thanks for the replies.

I guess this will generate a chuckle. I have to remember, I am sort of talking to ladies, and yet not :) So I guess I can read your thoughts, while at the same time wondering, am I talking to a man or a lady :)

Good point about the ring. Then again, I have known for some time, married just attracts guys that like the forbidden. Might work for me as much as against me. Well I'd like to dream of looking female enough a guy would actually mistake me for one.

Can't imagine looking THAT good though.

It also occurred to me, I wonder, wearing a wedding ring, and a woman looking at me and thinking, but that is a guy, and pondering, but he has a wife as well.

I wonder how many of the forum are like me, married and with kids.

Married with 2 kids here.