I'm In The Closet

[Persephone]

I feel like I have to hide. Afraid of being outed. What if I'm seen? Will my friends still like me if they find out? At the very least, our relationship would never be the same.

Every time I go out I feel furtive, lurking in shadows, glancing around worried that someone I know might see me.

I try to disguise myself as much as possible. I trade my glasses for contacts, I try to tuck my hair into my polo shirt.

It really feels awful. Yeah, now I'm afraid and feel vulnerable going out as "him."

Suggestions appreciated.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Barbara Ella]

And you should feel that way Persephone. Don't you know society frowns on wearing and impersonating someone of the opposite gender..What will people say if they really knew.........lol

Barbara

[Contessa]

I don't know what you are saying. You are saying you don't want to go out dressed en femme or go out as him. Please tell me more. I don't like going out as him either. So I occasionally wear something femme, I carry my purse.

Tess

[Beautiful]

i dont have a lot of experience so im not sure how much weight my words carry but ill throw my view point in any way.

When i was in the 6'TH grade i came out as gay it was wonderful filled with acceptance until i came out to my family to horrible results that resulted in my return to my closet. after that i have spent the last 6 yeas looking over my shoulder for the people that might confront me on this. im finally at a point where i am not afraid of these people it isn't any of their bushiness and the people that i care about and who's onion matter to me will be their for me no matter what but the timing isn't quite right for them to know my everything. if i were you i would tell you to be proud but i understand that felling of not wanting them to see you diffidently and their will be friends who see you differently some bad , some good, some uncomfortable, but their will be those that love you for you not what you were or who you love and its better to live happy then sad we only have so many days on earth i want my happy to out way my sad. i hope these words help.

[xcdmargo]

I just spent the past 3 days traveling by car and was in Margo mode 100% of the time. It was more than a little nerve wracking at times but I was bound and determined to make it happen. I also stopped for some shopping at Lane Bryant and Fashion Bug and both stores could not have been more helpful. I have not had a single negative experience so far. The Hotel clerks have been very nice and one complimented me on my ring. I had reservations at one hotel and they didn't have the type of room I needed and I had to cancel it and find another one. The Clerk did say Thank You Sir as she handed back my ID and although I felt a little bad I had to remember that my ID was in Guy Mode so I think it was just a natural thing for her to say. It has been a great 3 days for me and I'm looking forward to doing it again.
As far as passing I think I look OK but I'm not ready for a Mall yet. I think if you dress appropriately and act naturally it helps to just blend into the crowds and not give anyone reason to wonder.
As I said it's been a great experience for me

margo

[Marleena]

Lol..I totally get it.:)

I have to crossdress to let him out too. It bugs me when I have to do that.. I have no good answers to the dilemna though, sorry.

[katie_barns]

I just now got comfortable being out as Katie. I hope I am never uncomfortable as Wayne. Although it would be a nice problem to have. Cute post.

[Kimberlyfaye]

That sounds really good Beau. You seem to have quite a mature head on your shoulders for someone so young.

I wonder if I'll ever have to CD as a guy.... Eww ;-)

[Laura912]

We are taking ourselves a wee bit too serious aren't we? Must admit, that knowing Persephone from her posts, I wondered where she was going with this! Interestingly, I do not have any trouble with either mode although one is more quietly kept than the other.

[kimdl93]

That level of paranoia is natural when you're trying to be someone that you're not. Just be yourself and quite trying to pass as a guy!

[Eryn]

Sorry, but you really have to work on your presentation! Lose the acrylics, get some grease under those nails, work on those subtle male cues like spitting, scratching, bodily noises, etc. Remember, you have to macho up and Be The Guy!

[RADER]

I can understand what you are feeling.
I am very active in several Veterans Org's. Almost every one in my neighborhood knows
me all to well. I am one of those people who gets phone calls at night on what to do when
the hot water heater goes out.
So unless I went to a different state, I would be spotted in a heart beet.
Also I am not very Pattie, I look like Paul Bunion, with huge arms, and legs and hairy chest.
So the Closet is where I reside; In fact some year ago, I built a room addition so my "Closet"
Would be bigger. LOL
Rader

[Persephone]

I guess I wasn't very clear in my OP. I'm now worried and paranoid about going out as a guy.

I'm out en femme about 60% of the time. I have friends who know me as a guy and friends who know me as a gal. The majority of those who know me as a guy now also know that I am an active crossdresser. But some of my friends know me only as a woman and would be shocked and hurt to find out about my "guy side."

Unfortunately, there are still times when I have to be in guy mode. At those times I slink about, trying to hide in the shadows.

I guess Kim (kimdl93) is right, I'm not too good at passing as a guy!

Hugs,
Persephone.

[docrobbysherry]

So, u think your androgenous guy look will offend Persephone's "girlfriends"? Really? While it seems to me that keeping who knows u as a guy and others that know u as Persephone straight would be difficult or impossible, maybe you're used to it? Or, u don't really care?

In which case, maybe you're over thinking this as an issue!?

[SherriePall]

You had me going until the very end! Well done!

[~Joanne~]

We are taking ourselves a wee bit too serious aren't we? Must admit, that knowing Persephone from her posts, I wondered where she was going with this! Interestingly, I do not have any trouble with either mode although one is more quietly kept than the other.

This is exactly where I stand on the subject too :)

[Rebecca Star]

unless I went to a different state, I would be spotted in a heart beet.
Also I am not very Pattie, I look like Paul Bunion, with huge arms, and legs and hairy chest.
So the Closet is where I reside; In fact some year ago, I built a room addition so my "Closet"
Would be bigger. LOL
Rader

Seriously Rader you crack me up sometimes, thanks for another good chuckle :)

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Time for some reality and tough love Persephone.


I feel like I have to hide. Afraid of being outed.
It really feels awful. Yeah, now I'm afraid and feel vulnerable going out as "him."

Suggestions appreciated.

Hugs,
.



I'm out en femme about 60% of the time. I have friends who know me as a guy and friends who know me as a gal.

Did I not tell you last year that the whole "guy friends" and "girl friends" thing you were doing was unworkable in the long term? Yes I did. Did I not tell you the separation thing you do is a bit silly? Yes I did. Look....Do you want to live full time as a woman or not, it's that simple. You seem to want to but can't seem to actually USE THE WORDS.


The majority of those who know me as a guy now also know that I am an active crossdresser. But some of my friends know me only as a woman and would be shocked and hurt to find out about my "guy side."

Here, you're being delusional. Look, I had to say it because you ARE! Didn't your wife tell you that you don't pass and that everyone knows and is just being polite? Yes she did:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?167674-And-Then-She-Shot-Me-With-Both-Barrels-longish&highlight=

I've said this before, but people aren't that stupid, Persephone. Ask those friends who you say only know you as a woman, ask them if they know you're trans. Did you not mention yourself that people in that women's group you're in know?

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?172587-Looks-Like-I-ve-Been-Outed

People talk, Persephone....they know, you're not fooling anyone. And since people KNOW and treat you fine. And if they know, wouldn't you think others do as well? Isn't it more likely that the people you think don't know, DO KNOW and are simply not talking about it because they like you.


Unfortunately, there are still times when I have to be in guy mode. At those times I slink about, trying to hide in the shadows.

You could always transition you know...that's what your slippery slopey slide from adrogyny was and is.



While it seems to me that keeping who knows u as a guy and others that know u as Persephone straight would be difficult or impossible, maybe you're used to it?

In which case, maybe you're over thinking this as an issue!?

Yes, she is, she just doesn't realize how silly the whole separation thing she's doing is. But she's always been a bit of a "cloudcuckoolander" in not thinking about this in a practical way. Don't think I haven't forgotten that movie date Persephone did with a guy where she came here after and got all stereotypically 50's passive aggressive because he didn't behave in a stereotypical manly way with you by spending more money on the movie date. And I didn't forget that silly "twin brother" excuse you were planning on using at one time.


You had me going until the very end! Well done!

No, she's serious... she's just not..... Well to put it bluntly, when it comes to trans, Persey is a bit barefoot in the head and needs someone to bonk her over the head with the reality of her situation.

This is not the first time someone Persey's age has done a similar thing, trying to have a womans life without giving up the male privilege part that pays the bills and trying to keep the lives separate and getting silly about the whole thing. Sometimes it goes as far as the semi-retired gent getting a boob job, and then binding the breasts like an FTM in guy mode. That's the sort of thing Persey would do I think, because she's going out of her way to NOT deal with the real issues involved. It's time to grow up, Persephone and quit trying to slip a transition over everyone's eyes without them knowing it.

Veronica

[Eryn]

Time for some reality and tough love Persephone.

The majority of those who know me as a guy now also know that I am an active crossdresser. But some of my friends know me only as a woman and would be shocked and hurt to find out about my "guy side."

Here, you're being delusional. Look, I had to say it because you ARE! Didn't your wife tell you that you don't pass and that everyone knows and is just being polite? Yes she did:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?167674-And-Then-She-Shot-Me-With-Both-Barrels-longish&highlight=

I've said this before, but people aren't that stupid, Persephone. Ask those friends who you say only know you as a woman, ask them if they know you're trans. Did you not mention yourself that people in that women's group you're in know?

...

Veronica

Veronica, before you administer what you call "tough love," you should get your facts straight. Read the post you referenced. It wasn't Persephone's wife making the assertion that Persephone wasn't passable, it was a teen-aged acquaintance that had met Persephone with the foreknowledge that she was meeting a crossdresser. Her thoughts were related by her mother who also had knowledge of Persephone's CD status and decided to take it out on her.

I have no doubt that Persephone passes among her friends who know her only as her female self. In fact, my own daughter (who is not aware of my crossdressing) had met Persephone several times and even sat down for dinner with us. The only question she asked afterward was "how did you come to know that lady?"

The danger that Persephone encounters is a clash between her female-world friends and her male/CD-world friends. Since the two worlds are overlapping more and more as Persephone's male-side friends become aware of her CDing this is a valid concern.

It's easy to say "go ahead and transition" if you're not aware of the reasons behind a person's maintenance of her dual status.

The remainder of your post was hurtful and doesn't really warrant discussion. As someone who actually knows Persephone all I will observe is that you're way off the mark with your assertions.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Read the post you referenced.

I stand corrected, I didn't re-read that thread and I did not remember who had said what.

But:


I have no doubt that Persephone passes among her friends who know her only as her female self. In fact, my own daughter (who is not aware of my crossdressing) had met Persephone several times and even sat down for dinner with us. The only question she asked afterward was "how did you come to know that lady?"

Look, I know that here, we like to flatter each other and be nice and tell each other how passable we are....but the vast majority are not. I've seen Persephone's pictures, and while she is blendable....in close interaction there is no way she's passable...it's that simple. AFAIK she hasn't done any body mods like mones or beard removal yet, and that will make it harder. Ask your daughter if she knew Persephone was trans...because even she might know that you address people by the pronounds the present as even if you KNOW they're trans.


The danger that Persephone encounters is a clash between her female-world friends and her male/CD-world friends. Since the two worlds are overlapping more and more as Persephone's male-side friends become aware of her CDing this is a valid concern.

Yes it's a concern but it doesn't have to be...she didn't have to separate the two lives in the first place. No "twin brother" excuse needed. You're her friend! Neither you nor I want her house of cards to fall down and her to crash and burn and have problems because of all the deception and white lies and whatnot. You should have been encouraging her to "own" her transness and not do the silly separation stuff.


It's easy to say "go ahead and transition" if you're not aware of the reasons behind a person's maintenance of her dual status.

But she says she's 60 percent of the time in girl mode, you don't call what she's doing a social transition on the sly?
Because that's exactly what it is. If that is what she wants and it seems it is and it seems her wife is going along with the girly stuff...then why not.


The remainder of your post was hurtful and doesn't really warrant discussion. As someone who actually knows Persephone all I will observe is that you're way off the mark with your assertions.

Are you saying she is dealing with the reality of her transness directly, or is she sidestepping the issues to do what she wants without thinking. I know you're her friend and you want to defend her...but friends should also say. "Hey, what you're doing could lead to a crash and burn", and you are not doing it. As a friend it is your job to try to prevent friends from hurting themselves. And I am worried that is what will happen when Persephone's reality comes crashing down. To put it internet lolspeak: Teh Trans 1z teh SRS BUSNS!

Veronica

[Eryn]

I stand corrected, I didn't re-read that thread and I did not remember who had said what.

If you're going to cite a thread, you should know what it said. There is a huge difference between a random teenager and one's spouse!


Ask your daughter if she knew Persephone was trans...because even she might know that you address people by the pronounds the present as even if you KNOW they're trans.

Sorry, but it is ridiculous to assert that someone has to be outed as TG just to test the perception of that person as a women. If my daughter had perceived anything that bothered her she would certainly have asked me about it.

Quoting myself from the thread you cited:

We all (GGs included) have a few masculine features. I have a very good friend who is definitely a GG, but if we were to *tell* someone that this person was TG that person would be able to "tell that she was male" immediately. That person would note her height (5'10"), shoes (11), deep voice, facial features, and throat contours as obvious giveaways that she was really male. That person would also be completely wrong!

Male and female are a lot less clear-cut in the real world. My GG friend in the quote above isn't perceived as a TG individual because she is very confident in her femininity. So is Persephone.


Yes it's a concern but it doesn't have to be...she didn't have to separate the two lives in the first place. No "twin brother" excuse needed. You're her friend! Neither you nor I want her house of cards to fall down and her to crash and burn and have problems because of all the deception and white lies and whatnot. You should have been encouraging her to "own" her transness and not do the silly separation stuff.

We've discussed this and Persephone has very good reasons for doing what she does. There are forces at work outside of ourselves and sometimes we have to respect those forces even if it interferes with our ideal status.