How Long Will It Remain Safe in Montreal?

[Beth-Lock]

With today's news feature showing innocent patrons of a resto-bar's patio in Montreal, getting shot at with a rubber bullet and sprayed with pepper spray by riot police, it does raise the question of how long it will remain safe to go to Montreal for GRS.

The student riots have been going on and on, and seem to be getting more and more violent, the police response moving apparently in the same direction of escalation.

Of course there are other, more ordinary hazards for visitors to Montreal, including dishonest taxi drivers, not all of whom speak English, and only some of which are equipped to accept payment via credit card. But overall, I think Montreal is still relatively safe and civilized. The only question is, how long that will last if the student riot question is not resolved. Today in a call-in show, the prospect of calling out the army and imposing martial law was mentioned, although those were far out ideas, just thrown out in the process of brainstorming -- and unimaginable yet.

[Kathryn Martin]

I just returned from Montreal and it is perfectly safe. This is much media hype. Ask Frances, she lives in heart of the city.

[Beth-Lock]

I just returned from Montreal and it is perfectly safe.

I certainly did not say that Montreal is not safe now, and indeed even the wording of the question clearly implies that Montreal is safe, which it is, as much as any big city normally is.

However, the question was, 'How long can Montreal remain safe?' GRS must be booked far in advance, as long as a year forward, and a large deposit paid soon after booking. A lot can happen in that time of course, as anybody might guess.

The current strategy of the authorities is to repress rioting with harsh action and unreasonable laws. Massive arrests were made last night, at least one police car set on fire and 11 police officers injured, the latter an extraordinary figure.

Considering the history of violent rebellion in Montreal, and having in mind J F Kennedy's saying that when peaceful demonstration is prohibited, it makes violent protests inevitable, one cannot but worry. I remember having dinner with a Canadian Army officer, in town with the troops, the last time the troops were called out to deal with an incipient rebellion centered in Montreal, saying that as an officer he could have anyone he felt was suspicious arrested, just on his say so. Indeed, many were arrested. But it put an end to the deadly, random bombing. Meeting the threat with crushing force was a well thought out plan, according to the General then in charge of the crack down, when I attended a talk he gave on the crisis of that time, years later. In short, things get unpredictable once a break with normalcy is made. In Quebec this has been compounded by political mishandling of such situations, and the hard ball reaction of the current government does not inspire much confidence that things have changed.

[Launa]

Usually these kinds of protests and rioting are temporary in North America. Most of the time they do not turn into a chronic problem and settle down fairly quick.

[Felicity71]

It would appear to be safer than Monterrey, Mexico. What are your parameters for being an unsafe city? Number of murders per total population? Xenophobia?

[Stephenie S]

Going by murders per capita, Montreal is FAR safer than Baltimore. What you ask is xenophobic in the extreme. Montreal is a safe city, far safer than most cities in the US. Brassard is not downtown anyway. His hospital and recovery residence is in a quiet residential neighborhood.

[Beth-Lock]

What are your parameters for being an unsafe city? .... Xenophobia?

Since we are looking at it soley in the context of GRS, the concerns are gettting to and from the private hospital and other associated facilities, safely. Getting there in time, is of course one concern, and a taxi ride from the main train station or bus station in Montreal, up to the North Island, can be surprisingly expensive and time consuming, if for example, attempted in rush hour, even without running into any disruptions due to riots. But the main concern, is getting from the convalescent residence, to the place where you must take a plane, train or bus home, as well as getting assistance in boarding if needed, all when you are in a fragile state a week or so after surgery. At that point, any disruption in your journey could prove traumatic not to mention health-threatening. Luckily, GRS Montreal, helps arrange limousine service for this sort of transportation, in most cases.

As for xenophobia, if the student riots turn into a wider political issue, who knows what feelings might be dredged up, say if you fail to be able to express yourself in French? In that case it is important just to try, and after that most people if they can, will switch to English. But it would not hurt to write out your destination address, in neat block letters on a card, to present to the taxi driver, etc., just in case he does not speak English, or there is some other potential for confusion.

And, BTW, I did not know Monterey was a centre for GRS!

[Kathryn Martin]

This thread is beyond belief. What are you saying? Don't go to Brassard because you might get killed by an angry mob? You make me laugh. I am not sure where you are from but it's time to grow up. By the way, all of his patients are being transporter by limo.

[Felicity71]

As for xenophobia, if the student riots turn into a wider political issue, who knows what feelings might be dredged up, say if you fail to be able to express yourself in French? In that case it is important just to try, and after that most people if they can, will switch to English. But it would not hurt to write out your destination address, in neat block letters on a card, to present to the taxi driver, etc., just in case he does not speak English, or there is some other potential for confusion.

And, BTW, I did not know Monterey was a centre for GRS!

I mentioned Monterrey, Mexico because its been reported to be one of the safest places in Latin America, but this month allegedly there was a horrible public display of brutality by cartels. It has plastic surgeons so it possible could be visited by trans people.
Hospital San Jose Tec De Monterrey - did a google search and I believe this hospital in Monterrey does SRS.

I see no issue with Montreal, heck its Canada :)

[Lesley_Roberta]

I'm from Quebec and even with all the hassle that goes with that province, I'd rather be there, than dealing with what a friend of mine deals with on her way to college in Greece.

[Beth-Lock]

... By the way, all of his patients are being transporter by limo.

I shall ignore the insults, but it is simply not true that all his patients and especially not all their visitors, for that matter, are always transported by limo. The need to take a taxi in Montreal is not absolutely excluded. Neither, of course, is a limo absolutely secure anyway.

[Frances]

I shall ignore the insults, but it is simply not true that all his patients and especially not all their visitors, for that matter, are always transported by limo. The need to take a taxi in Montreal is not absolutely excluded.

What is the issue with taxis exactly?

[Felicity71]

What is the issue with taxis exactly?

Everyone knows Taxis are driven by Misogynists :P joke :)

[Beth-Lock]

I think I will bow out of this discussion now, (or should I say, curtsey out), as it seems to be going nowhere constructive. I have studied just enough of student movements to be concerned about what is going on in Montreal right now, and I thought I should share my concern, especially with some people who may be directly affected. The real answer to my question is one that only time will reveal.

And about Montreal taxis: Some day I will make a post on the subject, but it does not make much sense to repeat what I have already said about them, by way of advice to those here who may have to deal with them some day. That is sufficient. I always like a comical post though, so some day I might be tempted.

[Frances]

I live about a block away from the pepper spray incident at the bar that is shown in the news. The situation is getting worse, and it will continue to get worse. This is not about tuition fees anymore. The provincial police has been called in and the number of arrests have gone up. 69 people were arrested Saturday and over 300 yesterday. There is helicopter over my building each night and tear gas smoke coming through my window a little bit. The army may be called in too, but honestly, this government has now made most people very angry.

That being said, people are still living their lives, going out to restaurants and bars and spending evenings in the city anyway. Dr. Brassard's hospital and recovery house are nowhere near the action. Montreal is the size of Boston. There is quite a bit of distance between where angry citizens (not just students anymore) are marching and clashing with police, and the place where people get vaginas. Taxis are mostly driven by immigrants whose first language is not French. They all speak English. Most people understand and speak English in Montreal. I understand and speak English. I can even write it! There is no xenophobia in Montreal and there will never be. This city is all about tourism.

So: things are getting worse, but it will not affect anyone's SRS. Believe me, litteraly thousands of people have been marching in front of my building every single night for a month and a half, but we are not dealing of a millitary regime or a dictatorship. The special law (bill 78), which has angered a lot of people (including me), has an expiry date, and elections will eventually come.

[StevieTV]

I'm waiting to see what occurs this summer with all the festivals and the Formula One. Cresent Street may be a tad more "lively" than normal.

[darla_g]

i haven't heard about it till now, but then again in the US the news is only about "us".

[Frances]

Ok, things are going bad. Between 100,000 and 250,000 marched in peace today, but all the bad apples are staying out tonight. The helicopter has not left the neighbourhood, and I just saw about 50 cops in riot gear pass in front of my building! People will not back down. The show of force from the government is only making matters worse.

[Beth-Lock]

I am starting to get a little worried now.

[Leslie Langford]

Sounds as if this whole thing is starting to spin out of control, and reminiscent of the 1968 student riots in Paris. And the police are damned if they do, and damned if they don't in these types of situations...

If the riot police take a hard line and answer violence with escalating violence, they will be accused of over-reacting and trampling on civil liberties, as is happening right now in Toronto with the inquiry into alleged police excesses during the riots triggered there in 2010 during the G20 Summit.

If the Montreal police use kid gloves instead and let the demonstrators gain the upper hand, they will lose control over the city, and rampant, wanton destruction of property and injury to innocent bystanders will result. Only in retrospect will we know which strategy was the most effective. By then, it will be too late, and the finger-pointing and witch-hunting to assign blame will have begun.

Where is former Prime Minister "Watch me!" Pierre Elliot Trudeau (he of the War Measures Act fame, which brought in the Canadian Army to restore order during the separatist crisis in the early 1970's) - now that we really need him? Yes, I know - he died some time ago, and this is just a figure of speech, but Montreal (and Quebec) could certainly use a leader like him now, and one who has the guts to restore order again the way he did at the time, and under similarly trying circumstances.

[Frances]

Sounds as if this whole thing is starting to spin out of control, and reminiscent of the 1968 student riots in Paris. And the police are damned if they do, and damned if they don't in these types of situations...

If the riot police take a hard line and answer violence with escalating violence, they will be accused of over-reacting and trampling on civil liberties, as is happening right now in Toronto with the inquiry into alleged police excesses during the riots triggered there in 2010 during the G20 Summit.

If the Montreal police use kid gloves instead and let the demonstrators gain the upper hand, they will lose control over the city, and rampant, wanton destruction of property and injury to innocent bystanders will result. Only in retrospect will we know which strategy was the most effective. By then, it will be too late, and the finger-pointing and witch-hunting to assign blame will have begun.

Where is former Prime Minister "Watch me!" Pierre Elliot Trudeau (he of the War Measures Act fame, which brought in the Canadian Army to restore order during the separatist crisis in the early 1970's) - now that we really need him? Yes, I know - he died some time ago, and this is just a figure of speech, but Montreal (and Quebec) could certainly use a leader like him now, and one who has the guts to restore order again the way he did at the time, and under similarly trying circumstances.

The crowd demonstrating yesterday during the day (100,000 to 250,000 according to estimates) was comprised of students and angry citizens of all ages. I even saw babies in strollers and people in wheelchairs. You want to send troops for what exactly? The escalation of force (through batons and legislation) is what is driving Quebecers angry. I am tired of staying in every night, but I am so done with this government. This situation started out as reaction to tuition hikes, but It has become much greater. I don't want to see a Canadian tank about to trample an old lady in wheelchair on Sainte-Catherines. The corruption and collusion with organized crime at City Hall and in the provincial governement is out of control. The people are reacting. I live in the middle (littteraly) of the chaos and I support the demonstrators. Quite frankly, it's the police that scares me, now the demonstrators. After all, only the police have clubs, guns and pepper spray.

Martial law during the Montreal Jazz Festival? Les bons temps are not going to roll.

[darla_g]

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this the basis for the student riots?: The tuition in Quebec is approx $1900/yr which HASN'T risen in over 20 yrs. The Quebec Govt wants to raise the tuition by $1625 spread over a 5 yr period, which equates to a rise of $325/yr which they say is to much.

[Kathryn Martin]

This is a throwback to almost medieval times. It screams police state from every rooftop. Being old enough to have been at the tail end of the 1968 student revolts, and following years it feels like we keep re-visiting the same things over and over again. (sorry this really dates me n'est-pas?)

I fully support the students and protesters!




The crowd demonstrating yesterday during the day (100,000 to 250,000 according to estimates) was comprised of students and angry citizens of all ages. I even saw babies in strollers and people in wheelchairs. You want to send troops for what exactly? The escalation of force (through batons and legislation) is what is driving Quebecers angry. I am tired of staying in every night, but I am so done with this government. This situation started out as reaction to tuition hikes, but It has become much greater. I don't want to see a Canadian tank about to trample an old lady in wheelchair on Sainte-Catherines. The corruption and collusion with organized crime at City Hall and in the provincial governement is out of control. The people are reacting. I live in the middle (littteraly) of the chaos and I support the demonstrators. Quite frankly, it's the police that scares me, now the demonstrators. After all, only the police have clubs, guns and pepper spray.

Martial law during the Montreal Jazz Festival? Les bons temps are not going to roll.

[Leslie Langford]

"...The crowd demonstrating yesterday during the day (100,000 to 250,000 according to estimates) was comprised of students and angry citizens of all ages. I even saw babies in strollers and people in wheelchairs..."

Frances, I think that you have just hit the nail on the head with your reply. This is no longer about students protesting tuition hikes - it has become a giant block party with people now demonstrating for the sake of demonstrating, and justifying that because of a generalized dissatisfaction with an old, tired provincial government that has run out of ideas and is no longer in touch with its citizenship.

And Jean Charest is no longer the "Boy Wonder" - he has slowly morphed into becoming just one more privileged, middle-aged white guy trying to maintain the status quo and position himself as a credible (?) alternative to the hard core separatists still wielding a certain amount of power and influence within the PQ. It's not working for him and his party, but the solution in a democratic society is to use the ballot box to deal with such governments and toss them out of office - not rioting in the streets, violence, and generalized anarchy.

Funny how it's usually students, the unemployed, and the allegedly disenfranchised who start such demonstrations, as they have the least to lose, and for many of them, it's more about having a good time and stirring the pot as opposed to staying on topic with the original premise of their protests. And as a result of their youthful naivete, they invariably lose control over their followers because "professional" demonstrators such as the Black Bloc start to infiltrate them and take over by pushing them aside and driving their own anarchist agenda.

I really get concerned when everybody else tries to get into the act as well to gain some mileage out of these types of demonstrations to advance their own causes/movements. Just today, I read that Ken Lewenza, head of the CAW union, has asked his own members to throw their support behind this Quebec "student" movement. Why the h%ll is an Ontario-based head of a national union that represents primarily blue collar workers in the manufacturing sector - and mainly automotive, of which Quebec has none - meddling in Quebec's internal affairs? Simple - it's all about politics, and opportunists are always looking for an event like this to align themselves with allegedly popular causes to bask in the "halo effect".

And just for the record, Frances, I spent 35 years of my life in Quebec, lived through the FLQ crises, the James Cross and Pierre Laporte kidnappings and murders, the War Measures Act, and the countless referendums on sovereignty-association, so I'm pretty much up to speed on the never-ending circus that passes for politics in Quebec.

It's a crazy place in many respects with never a dull moment there, but d*mn! I still miss the place, the fundamental joie-de-vie of the francophones, and their laid-back approach to life...;)

Most of all, I miss Jean Guida ("Guilda"), Quebec female impersonator extraordinaire, who was one of my first role models when I discovered my penchant for crossdressing as a youngster, but didn't know at the time what to make of it.

[Frances]

This is a very good analysis of the situation. You seem to be well informed.

I don't think bringing in the army would make it better however. And the special law is not sitting well with most people. Negociations and mediation is what's needed in my opinion to get out of this mess. Festival season is right around the corner!


"...The crowd demonstrating yesterday during the day (100,000 to 250,000 according to estimates) was comprised of students and angry citizens of all ages. I even saw babies in strollers and people in wheelchairs..."

Frances, I think that you have just hit the nail on the head with your reply. This is no longer about students protesting tuition hikes - it has become a giant block party with people now demonstrating for the sake of demonstrating, and justifying that because of a generalized dissatisfaction with an old, tired provincial government that has run out of ideas and is no longer in touch with its citizenship.

And Jean Charest is no longer the "Boy Wonder" - he has slowly morphed into becoming just one more privileged, middle-aged white guy trying to maintain the status quo and position himself as a credible (?) alternative to the hard core separatists still wielding a certain amount of power and influence within the PQ. It's not working for him and his party, but the solution in a democratic society is to use the ballot box to deal with such governments and toss them out of office - not rioting in the streets, violence, and generalized anarchy.

Funny how it's usually students, the unemployed, and the allegedly disenfranchised who start such demonstrations, as they have the least to lose, and for many of them, it's more about having a good time and stirring the pot as opposed to staying on topic with the original premise of their protests. And as a result of their youthful naivete, they invariably lose control over their followers because "professional" demonstrators such as the Black Bloc start to infiltrate them and take over by pushing them aside and driving their own anarchist agenda.

I really get concerned when everybody else tries to get into the act as well to gain some mileage out of these types of demonstrations to advance their own causes/movements. Just today, I read that Ken Lewenza, head of the CAW union, has asked his own members to throw their support behind this Quebec "student" movement. Why the h%ll is an Ontario-based head of a national union that represents primarily blue collar workers in the manufacturing sector - and mainly automotive, of which Quebec has none - meddling in Quebec's internal affairs? Simple - it's all about politics, and opportunists are always looking for an event like this to align themselves with allegedly popular causes to bask in the "halo effect".

And just for the record, Frances, I spent 35 years of my life in Quebec, lived through the FLQ crises, the James Cross and Pierre Laporte kidnappings and murders, the War Measures Act, and the countless referendums on sovereignty-association, so I'm pretty much up to speed on the never-ending circus that passes for politics in Quebec.

It's a crazy place in many respects with never a dull moment there, but d*mn! I still miss the place, the fundamental joie-de-vie of the francophones, and their laid-back approach to life...;)

Most of all, I miss Jean Guida ("Guilda"), Quebec female impersonator extraordinaire, who was one of my first role models when I discovered my penchant for crossdressing as a youngster, but didn't know at the time what to make of it.

[whowhatwhen]

I would be more worried about random televised pranks being played on me.
:)

[Frances]

I would be more worried about random televised pranks being played on me.
:)

Like the Just For Laughs stuff we see on TV all the time? God forbid, I would rather stare down a tank. LOL

[Monica]

I was born and lived in Québec the first 30 years of my life. It is very unlikely that it is as dangerous as the press would like us believe.

[ReineD]

Why the h%ll is an Ontario-based head of a national union that represents primarily blue collar workers in the manufacturing sector - and mainly automotive, of which Quebec has none - meddling in Quebec's internal affairs? Simple - it's all about politics, and opportunists are always looking for an event like this to align themselves with allegedly popular causes to bask in the "halo effect".

I think it's the same the world over, Leslie. The division between the "haves" and the "have nots" is ever widening especially in these uncertain economic times, and people are becoming angry.

Frances, stay safe, and I'd love to hear more updates if you can. I'm planning a trip to Mtl in August. Maybe we can finally have that lunch? :)

[Frances]

Frances, stay safe, and I'd love to hear more updates if you can. I'm planning a trip to Mtl in August. Maybe we can finally have that lunch? :)

I have yet to not feel safe. The big daytime marches have been very peaceful. Close to 250,000 people marched in the streets on May 22nd. They all passed in front of my office building. It was quite something. At night, it's the police that worries me. There have been incidents where innocent people were pepper sprayed or arrested.

Almost 1000 people were arrested since Saturday. The police is acting very indiscriminitely in some instances, circling a neighbourhood and arresting everybody inside the perimeter, even innocent bystanders. I have been staying at home at night. Since I live right in the middle of it, I get to see it on TV and hear it outside my window. If I lived in the suburbs, I might come downtown to go out and get caught in the action unknowingly. But since I am already here, I get a little apprehensive and stay in.

The make-up of the demonstrators has changed over the last week. A lot of people are taking to the streets with pots and pans like they did in Chile to protest Pinochet. There are a lot more kids and elderly citizens as well, and the movement has spread all over the province.

Quebecers are historically a conquered people, and politicians have been able to count on the apathy of the masses to do whatever they wanted. Government corruption has been rampant for a while and people have grown tired of it. There are other issues as well, such as the selling of natural ressources in the North and fracking, which is destroying vital ecosystems. Special law 78 backfired completely, and everyone siding with the Liberals (the party in power) may historically be on the wrong side of the issue.

I don't think there will be much more violence, which has been quite subdued by the way (breaking of windows and throwing projectiles at the riot police by the Black Bloc mainly), but the movement may grow even larger and the government will fall.

I am proud of my people who finally had the guts to say something instead of turning the cheek like it always does, and I would love to have lunch with you ReineD.

[Kathryn Martin]

I am proud of your people too, having followed this since it began this is one of the finest examples of democracy in evolution. It is interesting that once again it is the authorities that we have to be afraid of. Having been there (between 1068 and 1975) this has instilled in me a deep rooted fear of the "arm of the law". "random, indiscriminate" why are those the descriptors?

Vive les Quebecois, you have my support and vote.....


I have yet to not feel safe. The big daytime marches have been very peaceful. Close to 250,000 people in the streets on May 22nd. They all passed in front of my office building. It was quite something. At night, it's the police that worries me. There have been incidents where innocent people were pepper sprayed or arrested.

Almost 1000 people were arrested since Saturday. The police is acting very indiscriminitely in some instances, circling a neighbourhood and arresting everybody inside the perimeter, even innocent bystanders. I have been staying at home at night. Since I live right in the middle of it, I get to see it on TV and hear outside my window. If I lived in the suburbs, I might come downtown to go out and get caught in the action unknowingly. But since I am already here, I get a little worried.

The make-up of the demonstrators has changed over the last week. A lot of people are taking to the streets with pots and pans like they did in Chile to protest Pinochet. There are a lot more kids and elderly citizens as well, and the movement has spread all over the province.

Quebecers are historically a conquered people, and politicians have been able to count on the apathy of the masses to do whatever they wanted. Government corruption has been rampant for a while and people have grown tired of it. There are other issues as well, such as the selling of natural ressources in the North and fracking, which is destroying vital ecosystems. Special law 78 backfired completely, and everyone siding with the Liberals (the party in power) may historically be on the wrong side of the issue.

I don't think there will be much more violence, which has been quite subdued by the way, but the movement may grow even more and the government will fall.

I am proud of my people who finally had the guts to say something instead of turning the cheek like it always does, and I would love to have lunch with you ReineD.

[LeaP]

Having been there (between 1068 and 1975) ...



Kathryn, you look really good for your age!

Seriously - yes, in the end, it's always the authorities, even in democracies.

[darla_g]

Let me post this again since no one replied to my original post.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this the basis for the student riots?: The tuition in Quebec is approx $1900/yr which HASN'T risen in over 20 yrs. The Quebec Govt wants to raise the tuition by $1625 spread over a 5 yr period, which equates to a rise of $325/yr which they say is to much.

Is the solution then to trash your own city? How does the general population not of school age react to this?

[Frances]

Let me post this again since no one replied to my original post.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this the basis for the student riots?: The tuition in Quebec is approx $1900/yr which HASN'T risen in over 20 yrs. The Quebec Govt wants to raise the tuition by $1625 spread over a 5 yr period, which equates to a rise of $325/yr which they say is to much.

Is the solution then to trash your own city? How does the general population not of school age react to this?

Is was the starting point but it's grown much bigger.
Nobody's trashing the city.
They react by marching with the students. It has become a popular movement.

I thought my posts had explained the situation sufficiently.

[whowhatwhen]

Let me post this again since no one replied to my original post.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is this the basis for the student riots?: The tuition in Quebec is approx $1900/yr which HASN'T risen in over 20 yrs. The Quebec Govt wants to raise the tuition by $1625 spread over a 5 yr period, which equates to a rise of $325/yr which they say is to much.

Is the solution then to trash your own city? How does the general population not of school age react to this?

Education should be getting cheaper, not more expensive.
They should know that it's not okay, don't give them that inch so they won't take a mile later on.

[Babeba]

There are some pretty horrible measures and temporary laws which have been put into place by the government to quell protests... It is disgusting.

Quebec has been well known for generations for valuing higher education, and many families live in Quebec because that is something they themselves value. Many universities in Quebec are the dreams and aspirations of thousands of Canadians who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford an education (because let's face it, McGill's fees without scholarships which you can still apply for and win are about the same as mine were WITH scholarships some years), and are incredibly prestigious as a result of the quality of student they can choose to accept. Their graduates go all over the province, the country, and the world to make it a better place with the learning they received there. I can see a partial fee raise, to start matching inflation... But this is ridiculous and bars access to education. It's not just about whiny students, it's about a generation's hopes, dreams and plans... It's about a major cultural value shift. And now, it's about a government doing its best to suppress its citizens.

[darla_g]

Is was the starting point but it's grown much bigger.
Nobody's trashing the city.
They react by marching with the students. It has become a popular movement.

I thought my posts had explained the situation sufficiently.

No Frances when I read your posts you are quite clear about your impression of the situation.

I got a different impression from some of the accounts on cbc.ca and other media outlets which even included pictures of police tear gassing patrons of some bar or physically removing masks from their faces. There was one account that a trash can had been thrown through a bank window so maybe thats where i got the impression things had gotten out of hand. Look this still pales in comparison to what happens in the US like in Los Angeles when you consider the rioting of the early 90's after the Rodney King verdict. I understand now that students in Ontario are planning on having their own protests in support (http://www.lfpress.com/news/canada/2012/05/25/19799396.html) of their counterparts in Quebec . I think the media tends to blow these kinds of things up and ultimately there are only a handful of people that are out to do malicious damage, but those are the ones we always hear about and usually i always thought they were related to losing a hockey playoff like in Montreal or Vancouver.

I am not there so I have no real commentary except to note that I have two kids going to college in the US and their tuitions (at public institutions) is massive compared to what they are citing for Quebec, so its hard for me to muster any sympathy for their plight.

[Frances]

I am not there so I have no real commentary except to note that I have two kids going to college in the US and their tuitions (at public institutions) is massive compared to what they are citing for Quebec, so its hard for me to muster any sympathy for their plight.

Economies are different from one country to the next. We pay over $5 a gallon for gas and there are hidden taxes and not so hidden taxes imposed on everything. Close to 70% of our income goes into taxes. There is not much money left at the end of the day for education and other basic needs. Student debt equals identure to a corrupt and wasteful government for a lot of students.

This crisis was started by students, but it has caught on with the entire nation. This is as much about infringing rights and acting like despots as it is about money.

[darla_g]

I have been to Canada many times and at one point I had considered moving to Canada so I have a really good understanding of the economics between the two countries.

My salary would have been about 10-15 % less for a comparable position, but my effective tax rate would have been comparable to what I have been paying in the US. You are correct gas prices are higher, maybe more in Quebec than in Ontario where i would have probably relocated. I also do not see the same number of mammoth SUVs in Canada as in the US as a result because it just does not make sense.

Housing was considerably less from what i observed, maybe not in GTA but i was not looking there. The biggest difference I noted was that in Canada there is no tax deduction for interest expense on a home mortgage as there is in the US. (Interestingly enough the rate of home ownership between the two countries is almost identical)

Health care in Canada of course is free and a major offset to what it costs in the US. (I am afraid to say they will never be able to get it right in the US since both sides are so far apart, so in that regard I truly applaud Canada.)

So taking all those things into account at least for me I think the tuitions are ridiculously low (I cited the $1900 compared to almost $6500/yr for one of my kids). The bottom line is if the costs for the colleges and universities cannot be contained then something has to give. Maybe it all shouldn't fall on the students shoulders, but as you indicate there is probably more sources of animosities beside just the tuition hikes at work here.

[Kathryn Martin]

The exact amount is 79.1% of our earned income goes to taxes. And Darla the issue is the disenfranchisement of the younger generation. Just watch and learn over the next five years. We have seen nothing yet. It's going to hit you this summer I am sure.

[Frances]

And Darla the issue is the disenfranchisement of the younger generation.

And of a whole nation. Quebecers are a conquered people like I said in another post, and have often acted like such.

We have an expression to describe ourselves: "Né pour un petit bain," which translates litterally into "Born for a small loaf," but really describes our relation with power and money.

This situation is about the people finally saying "enough is enough." It's not just about tuition, taxes or entitlement.

[whowhatwhen]

This situation is about the people finally saying "enough is enough." It's not just about tuition, taxes or entitlement.

I love how that word pops up so often when it comes to things like health, education, and other social safety nets.
-_-

[darla_g]

Thank you for providing this perspective as I had said since i had spent quite a bit of time up in Canada for work and for pleasure. Most of the people i had met were from Ontario and BC but i had always detected a sense of resentment towards no so much the people of Quebec, but as they referred to it as the Quebecois. This was mostly with people who had been in the military so that is the perspective they had. I never really understood this before, but i do get the idea that divisions still exist within Canada the same way they exist in the US.

[Frances]

I invite you all to look at this video. Someone wrote a song and used actual footage of the pots and pans contingent of demonstrators. No anarchists or trouble-makers. It is quite moving and beautiful actually.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/25/montreal-pots-and-pans-video-bill-78_n_1546694.html

[darla_g]

thank you for sharing the video Frances. It really adds a human element to all of this.

We shall see what happens with these protests.