Don't think I'll ever get back.....

[Karren H]

... the trust I lost when my wife found out... Not that I really expected to.

Just an update on what's going on. After what 6 years.... Nothing really.

This weekend we were cleaning out the shed and she came across on small old black suitcase. She turns to me and says "you want to give me a hint on what's in here before I open it up?". Well.... I think its your grandmothers old typewriter.... Lol. Was kind of funny.... At least to me... Not to her.... And when I get home like 10 minutes late from work she let's me know she noticed I'm getting home late.... Like I stopped at a rest area and dressed for 10 minutes.... Ok bad example... But the truth is I don't think she will ever trust me like she used to.... And it hurts... But I accept it as part of what I did or didn't do and moved on.... Ohh well... I don't open up much so that's about the most your going out of me... raise the shields Scotty!

[Cindy M]

Gives You a hug :)
Hang in there!

[AngelaKelly<3]

That's a bummer! :( sorry to hear that you're having issues with trust between you and your wife. I can only extend my love across the pond to you, hope that it get's better for you and the trust comes back :P

[StaceyJane]

Sometimes we have to make some tough bargains with our wives.
I went through a tough time at first with my wife but she has accepted that I'm still the crazy, loving person she married.

Also getting dressed for 10 minutes on the way home sounds kind of fun.

[AllieSF]

Yep, there goes another hug from the sunny and warm, and dry West Coast. You are a Yooper Trooper.

[steph1964]

I'm sorry to hear that. My wife pretended it didn't exist for 13 years until I sat her down last year and told her again. We have been on a roller coaster since then and there have been a lot of trust issues. For a while she kept wanting to check my phone, or would ask me what I was just doing on the computer. And I told her I was a CD, she didn't catch me. I think it is a natural process. We have talked about it alot and things have improved.

[Kathi Lake]

I understand completely! I often catch her staring at body parts - looking for changes. I notice she combs through bank statements, checks in with me at work (wow. She literally just called me again as I was typing this), and other things. I know the trust is gone, but I haven't dressed since October.

What's it going to take?

Kathi

[Amanda22]

That is sad, Karren. I hope her trust of you grows. I don't understand why this would cause her to distrust you.

[JerseyGirlDonna]

Karren, I know exactly what you're going through. I hope things get better for you and your wife. Hugs, Donna

[NathalieX66]

Truly sorry to hear this , Karren you've always been an inspiration to us with your humor.
i forget how easy I have it as someone who is single.
Even that has it's challenges. ....you know, telling a Romantic prospect this side of me.

[Karren H]

Thanks.... A bunches. I really never expected any kind of improvement. Quite to the contrary I expected our relationship to go south and never recover. But maintaining the status quo isn't all bad. Imho. And we have a good marriage as long as we each play the parts scripted out on the marriage certificate! Too bad its not digital and I can go back and edit it.... Lol.

[kimdl93]

Karren, I don't know how one recovers trust. I did something far worse than keeping a secret from my ex - I had a brief, clumsy affair. Her hurt and anger have never lessened. I just wonder if there's some way to reach her. Surely, she would acknowledge that despite this one idiosyncracy, you're a deeply committed, loving spouse and parent, a good provider and an active and interesting person.

[xxprincess_tiffyxx]

I know your pain hun. Things didn't last too terribly long for me and my now ex after she found out after about 6 years. Now I'm back to single it's taken some adjusting but things are going well now.

[Karren H]

Somethimes I think an affair might have been easier to recover from? On the positive side she let's me play all the hockey I want!! Ok. Almost all the hockey I want....

[Stephanie47]

I really feel sorry for your situation. Although the vast majority of us on this site have never met you in person, your postings have revealed a lot about you. You have a good sense of humor. You are a classic 'bread winner.' You engage in activities to keep your mind and body active. The scales of marriage truly a weighted in your wife's favor. The one little coin of your side of the scale that your wife perceives as a fault, is probably the singular coin that has molded you into the fine person you appear to be.

[Marleena]

Karren you always rise above it with a smile. I find your sense of humor amazing even with all of the wife distractions you have. She obviously isn't on board with your dressing and this was just another reminder. Thanks for sharing, I wish somebody could get through to her and let her know how amazing we think you are.:)

[CloserthanthisGG]

I really feel sorry for your situation. Although the vast majority of us on this site have never met you in person, your postings have revealed a lot about you. You have a good sense of humor. You are a classic 'bread winner.' You engage in activities to keep your mind and body active. The scales of marriage truly a weighted in your wife's favor. The one little coin of your side of the scale that your wife perceives as a fault, is probably the singular coin that has molded you into the fine person you appear to be.

I second this completely, for what it's worth. I was trying really hard to think of the way to say what I was thinking and Stephanie has put it way more eloquently than I could. I feel a bit guilty for my own happiness in my relationship. I hope and wish that this does get easier for you and for everyone on this forum.

[Deidre]

im sorry hun dont know wht to say but heres a big HUG

[bobbimo]

Karren! Thanks so much for putting your photo link in your signature. And the photo spread is amazing.
You have gotten even more beautiful with age!
I'm sorry that your wife is not with you on your CDing. She should realize what an amazing woman you are and have some fun with it.
I came out last year to my wife, and we are both reading "my husband Betty"
she has 2 fears. One is that I will turn gay and leave her for a man.
and the other is that she will find out she has lesbian tendencies.
So far we are just having fun with my dressing and she does admit I have gotten prettier. (blush).
We haven't gone out yet, and I really want her to go out with me, because she is my best friend.
I wish I could wave a magic wand and help you out. But its not like you cheated on her. The gender issue is so huge and there is not pat answer why we do what we do. As long as you love her and can tell her that then things have a chance of getting better.
Hang in there

[Lorileah]

Technically Karren she believes you spend 5 minutes dressing before the drive home and five minutes behind the local Dairy Queen taking it all off.

Yes you can never undo what has been done. Dynamics change. I think you have it as good as you are going to get. And I also think she has a pretty good catch. You are very tolerant and understanding with her mother, you do a lot of Honey do maintenance around the house and you are a good spouse and parent.

Have you considered adding jeans to your wardrobe? Maybe she would be less concerned if you wore denim.

[paulaprimo]

i'm an easy going and humorous person :D myself and someone once told me the ones who joke and laugh the must usually are the ones that hurt the most...:sad: kinda hit home with me! i'm sure that the trust issue with your wife bothers you, probably alot! trust is a very important key to any relationship and as much as i try to be a very honest person, i am still in the closet! i would hate to be found out and for people to think that if i lied about my dressing, my whole life was a lie because that would be the furthest thing from the truth. i hate the fact that i do hide my dressing, but for numerous personal and professional reasons, i do. i would hate the fact that everything i accomplished in my life was tainted because i was found out. it would bother me a great deal.
its a shame people are not more understanding and accepting, because the majority of us are decent people... we just like to dress! :thumbsup:
its too bad that everything you do now, and every time you are late, your wife is going to think the worst.:thumbsdn: i guess if i was in her shoes, (i would be jealous of your beauty...:Dlol) i would think and feel the same way, although still very unfair to you. you seem to be are a very caring person (not to mention very likable). i think she is a very lucky girl to have you, and the fact she's hung in there for the past 6 years, makes me think that she realizes that. keep your chin up, hang in there, and get your ass home on time...:devil:lol GO RANGERS

[BRANDYJ]

Karen, you have been someone I've liked and admired from day one joining here. I have known about your wife's lack of acceptance for just about as long as I've gotten to learn and remember who you were. I have always admired the way you put your wife and your marriage before your own need to dress. You made it clear how this bothers you. Yet, you always did it with humor and respect for your wife. I have never sensed a selfish bone in your body. It's refreshing to me to see at least one CD put his marriage and wife first. I read to many threads where it appears the CD is whining about his wants and needs with little regard for his wife. NOT YOU. What little i know of you here from just reading your posts, you must be blessed with a terrific wife that is worth putting your needs behind her wishes. I wish there was some way she could begin to trust you, to put it behind her and begin to love all of you even if not to fully accept or even like you being a CD.
I just want to thank you for showing us that there is a way to make a marriage work in spite of not having the support of your wife and without putting her down for feelings she can't change for whatever reason. I just know you are a good husband and that you appreciate, respect and love your wife in spite of her not being able to let go of her fears or whatever it is she can't come to terms with.
Thanks Karen...Thanks for being here..Thanks for sharing... Thanks for making us laugh at times...

All this in spite of my not liking hockey and your hatred for jeans! But to me, you are one of the special ones here.

[SANDRA MICHELLE]

Your situation is as close to mine as one can imagine. My wife does let me indulge my wims quite a bit but she does not trust like she once did. I told her about my crossdressing about 6+ years ago and we have come a long way with it but the trust is not there like before. I am not as open with her as she would like but she really has nothing to worry about since she is the only one for me and I do appreciate all that she puts up with. Good luck Karren, I am praying for you and your wife.

[Tina B.]

Wow, have I been on this forum that long, I remember when you first started talking asobut your wife finding out, and how she took it. I could only hope at the time, that with time it would get better, as it has for so many others, sorry to hear that it hasn't. I guess it that old can't put the Jennie back in the bottle thing. That's why I find myself reluctent to recomend telling the truth always, not everyone is ready for the truth. You also get my hugs Karren, your one of the people that have kept me coming back day after day all these years.
Tina B.

[Cynthia Anne]

I suggest instead of getting home ten minutes late you leave for work ten minutes early!:D:hugs:

[natacsha]

Hi Karren. Ugh. I just typed a whole response to this on my phone and i hit submit and boom! Internet connection lost. Sucks for me. Anyways, i just want you to know that i am very empathetic to your situation because I've put myself in situations where my own deceit led to that feeling of which you speak. The hardest part for me to deal with was dealing with the fact that it seems hopeless. It seemed as though no matter what i did, i couldn't be more honest or even try to keep things at an even keel because it seemed like no matter what i did, it got twisted into some form of more mistrust....and when you know there isn't any reason for her to mistrust you, it just hurts.
---if you don't have thick skin you may not want to read the next part---

First girl i was with knew, loved and accepted it wholeheartedly. She was awesome. However, after 5 years of such extereme highs and lows i broke it off with her and cleaned up and stopped dressing. I ended up with another girl not long after (mary). She is the one i refer to. I kept it a secret but mainly cause i didnt wanna dress anymore. Well......(pause for dramatic effect).....the dressing bug came back hard after about a year. Eventually, I told her a couple years into it. Mistrust insues. After a couple years of relentless fighting and suffering I came to the realization that it was over....i just knew. 4 years with her and i really liked her a lot. But i handled it well because i accepted long ago that there would be possible repercussions from keeping it a secret. Its not her fault. Put yourself in her shoes (lol no pun..) some girls just dont want a guy like that. I know it may not be what you wanna hear and im sorry for that but im just explaining how i got through it. Best case senario is that she wakes up and realizes what a beautiful person you are inside and out and i do hope that's what ends up happening. All my best to you sweetheart. XoXoXo

[YorkshireRose]

Hi Karren, I only can only reiterate what others have said. You really are a bright star on this forum and I always enjoy your great humour. I am very sad to hear you're having these issues still with your wife. I really hope one day, you will get the trust and acceptance you deserve. Keep smiling honey .

Hugs Charlotte

[prettytoes]

I can understand where you are coming from. My wife seems to go through the "now I like it, now I don't"...more like "now I tolerate it, now I don't" quite often. I can tell when something is bothering her, and she never tells me what it is. I can ask 100 times, and I always get the same answer..."nothing". I naturally assume it is due to my dressing. It has been a year now, and things haven't changed much. We don't really talk about it, other than an occasional joke here and there.
I hope your wife begins to trust you again.

Do they make pink hockey skates?

[busker]

Karren, sometimes it is not the nature of the transgression that warrants a lifetime of mistrust, it is that some people simply will not let a past misdeed die as it should. There may be some joy in constantly picking at the mental scab that no medicine will cure. I made a mistake about 10 years into my marriage which lasted another 10 years and 25 years later while my ex and I are on good speaking terms, I can still sometimes hear the hurt in a conversation that is not even vaguely related to the original matter. It does become the proverbial chip on the shoulder and I have found nothing to pry it loose after all these years. Your wife could be the same way. Just because you are a CD and kept a part of you secret , I think the misapplication of the word trust in this case is the problem. After all, you are still trustworthy, you still provide for your family, you are involved with them daily, what more could a wife ask? As we have seen in so many instances the "trust" factor is a double-edged sword. Some of Those who opened up, lost big time, and a few didn't. so if withholding something deemed so terrible by society in general allowed a family to live in joy, where is the problem? The problem is that one person simply will not allow the joy to return for what may be selfish reason. What happened to forgiveness?

[elizabethamy]

Somethimes I think an affair might have been easier to recover from? On the positive side she let's me play all the hockey I want!! Ok. Almost all the hockey I want....

Now here's a true statement -- which of our wives wouldn't have preferred the (more manly) outlet of a scandalous affair than (gasp!) dressing like a GIRL! It makes me crazy, and she explains it by saying that this -- even though there is no other person involved -- is devastating to her core. If we can do a better job understanding why this is worse than anything imaginable to our SO's, and they could understand that we didn't just take this up for sport, like, say, hockey, then we'd all be a lot better off, right?

Until then, we have each other, and Karren, I hope we will keep having your wonderful sense of humor, which makes even the worst days a little better. Capitals in 2013!

elizabethamy

[Tara D. Rose]

WOW, Karen, this is somewhat surprising to me. You're not the kind to open up on here and talk with emotions and feelings of life as you have done here. I knew you were human deep down inside. It's very interesting to me personally to read some of your words not comeing form a humurous stand. I knew you were real all along. Life rolls on forward. OR like the old country song, "Time marches on".

Hugs to you,
Love 7 Respect..............Tara D. Rose

[Sheila11]

I just wanted to say that I have always found your posts and your humor fun, refreshing and insightful.
I think we both have the attitude of not taking all this so seriously.

I keep writing things and erasing them when all I want to say is:

"I am thinking of you and yours.
May your decisions come easy,
your convictions stay strong,
and your slapshot be true."

[Barbara Ella]

Karren, from one engineer to another, I am seeing the unique ability to compartmentalize problems and derive unique solutions independently even though there is a nuanced connection between the different compartments that cannot be factored in. I do so love the joy and happiness you bring to this forum, you are a unique woman in that respect. I did not know your history, and now I can make some weak extrapolations to my situation that let me empathize with your daily situation. i do not have my wife's trust, and I came out to her.

Often we are our own worst enemy. We do such a good job of being the male in the relationship that their mental ability to see us as anything but what we had been to them for many years (41 years in my case). So it is hard for them to adjust, if they even want to adjust. I hope my wife will adjust. I can offer no assistance to you that would help your wife adjust, if she even wants to. I am a null set in that respect.

I truly hope you can continue to efficiently compartmentalize your situations. I am amazed at how much you accomplish with your dressing given what you must have to go through to look as fantastic as you do. My efforts pale by comparison. your wife is in my prayers to develop acceptance to go along with the love I feel she has for you, or that man she mentally has fixated in her mind. We are so much more than just a man, a male companion, a provider. I continue to formulate a series of equations that would allow me to attain a solution, but alas, there are always more unknowns than equations. Such is the life of a crossdresser, we always have more unknowns..........

Hugs, Barbara

[ronda]

i think what most of us miss when women find out that we wear there clothing and makeup is then we have gone to place that women in general think men can not it there place and there place only men not allowed and you just violated that private place. the trust issue is in 2nd place.

[Karren H]

Wow, have I been on this forum that long, I remember when you first started talking asobut your wife finding out, and how she took it. I could only hope at the time, that with time it would get better, as it has for so many others, sorry to hear that it hasn't. I guess it that old can't put the Jennie back in the bottle thing. That's why I find myself reluctent to recomend telling the truth always, not everyone is ready for the truth. You also get my hugs Karren, your one of the people that have kept me coming back day after day all these years.
Tina B.

Seems like it was last week too!! I wish she had never found out.... Or not found out that way... Always said if she did find out I'd handle the bridge when I got to it.... Never thinking it would be the worlds longest bridge.


WOW, Karen, this is somewhat surprising to me. You're not the kind to open up on here and talk with emotions and feelings of life as you have done here. I knew you were human deep down inside.

Well don't get used to it! Lol.


Capitals in 2013!

elizabethamy

Ahhh.. No.... :)


I suggest instead of getting home ten minutes late you leave for work ten minutes early!:D:hugs:

I did that today... She wondered why I was home so early.... Electrician coming. She forgot! You don't see me holding that over her head for the rest of her life!

[Eryn]

Karren, before the revelation you had a certain equilibrium in your relationship with your wife.

The revelation upset that equilibrium. It will never go back to its original location.

That is not to say that a new equilibrium cannot be reached. It may even be better than the old one. I know that it is for Mimi and I.

From the very limited information that I have, your wife seems to still be sniping at you for what she perceives as past transgressions. If indeed the secretiveness between you ended six years ago her behavior does seem a bit extreme.

It's obvious that this distresses you. Have you considered talking to your wife and telling her that her attitude is hurtful to you? That's about the only way to really resolve this issue.

Here's a hug to tide you over...:hugs:

[KellyJameson]

I miss the idea of love but do not think I'm strong enough for the pain that goes with it but wonder at what cost to my own growth and wellbeing.

I've had friends who stayed married after an extramarital affair and living without the trust in the relationship has a similar feel to your words

It is difficult for me to see crossdressing as an act of betrayal but when I read threads on how wifes react to it I sense they treat it like an act of infidelity but it is not from another woman on the outside but the one on the inside of their husbands.

This must come as a shock because you are watching for danger from one direction never seeing or knowing that it could come from somewhere else completely.

There must be a sense of rejection, not being good enough, a feeling of humiliation along with embarrassment and fear of what others will think (guilt by association).

Perhaps the mistake is using relationships to prop up our own feeling of inadequacy so than we must control others to feel worthy of consideration and know our own value. Romantic love sometimes seems deadly to personal growth.

I wonder if a wife could come into her own by allowing her husband to crossdress thus freeing her from an unhealthy attachment to her own feelings of inferiority, strong words I know but it saddens me that there is so much pain associated with something that could be benign if it was only shared and not feared.

This for me is the problem with love, it brings so many expectations that often feel unjust as if I'm being used to fight the battles the other person should be fighting for themselves.

I wonder if (as a woman) I was married to a man and he crossdressed how would I handle it. I think I would react the same as most women because I to am insecure, this is unfortunate. Love really never happens until you let go of fear because you stay inside yourself always trying to be safe.

I'm sorry that you are not trusted Karen because of crossdressing when there are so many sins far greater to not trust someone for. This always makes my heart ache when I hear of it.

[Joanne Curl]

Wow Karren do I relate! I told my wife of 15 years one year ago. I don't think she'll ever trust me again. She doesn't understand why I cross dress but more importantly I broke her trust and I don't know if she'll ever get over it. I sympathize with how you feel.

[TxKimberly]

You know, if your gonna bother to open up once in a while I figure you did a good job there Karen. I wish I could help but all I can do is tell you that I feel your pain and that I "get it". Of course I guess I don't really "know" you, but I've read enough of your posts through the years and seen enough of your humor to go out on a limb and say that I'm pretty sure that you are a pretty decent person. We all make mistakes in life - hell I've been told that I should write a book about my own, but in the end what it all comes down to is that we have to try and do the best that we can with what we have. Pretty sure you are doing that . . .

[Lori B]

I know where your coming from Karren,,,,,that`s where I am,,,content in status quo:battingeyelashes:

[Kelly DeWinter]

Karen,

I am the eternal optimist, sometimes when you look at the long term, things change for the better, there have been a number of girls on here whose marriages have suddenly gone from non acceptence, to tollerence to support.

One thing I've learned a long time ago is that Respect is given and Trust is earned. Take some of these times with you spouse as opportunities to educate gently.

I have a feeling you have not lost your spouses trust completely and it sounds like she is concerend for you safety.

Don't give up.

[Tora]

As a former Houghton resident, and broom ball goalie ( who got caught wearing golf shoes) When got married, there was next to NO info on this CD hobby. Heck, I thought getting married was the cure. The important item is yours posts, insite and humor. Thank you.

[TxKimberly]

Somethimes I think an affair might have been easier to recover from? On the positive side she let's me play all the hockey I want!! Ok. Almost all the hockey I want....

I swear this is true - my wife once told me that she would have preferred "that" to "this". At least that would have been normal, something that could be explained . . .

[Heather Daniels]

Karren,
Do you think that if you would have told her, rather than being found out , that she would look at this any differently?

[Sally24]

I feel for you Karen. My wife is accepting, but she still once and awhile jumps on me about whether I'm taking any pills or thinking about changing my body. I've been straight with her since we started dating and unlike her, have never lied in our years together. So don't feel it's all on you because she would probably still be a little distrustful no matter how it all came out. Never lose your sense of humor.......some days it's the only sense we've got!:devil:

[Debglam]

I'm sorry Karren. I guess all I can say is that we all ride the highs and lows. At the very best, the VERY best, this stuff complicates a relationship. We all just work things out as best we can.

Hugs,
Debby

[Sometimes Steffi]

Karren

I know how you feel. Your situation is very similar to mine. But don't give up all hope.

My wife found out 5 years ago, and she really went ballistic.

But last month, she actually let me go to the Keystone Conference. I gave her kind of a PowerPoint briefing (sorry ladies, I'm also an engineer) and she told me it was OK to go. Her one comment was, "Just because I'm OK with your going doesn't mean we get to go out as girlfriends." I was shocked. I asked her where she heard of that. Her response, "I watch Oprah."

Now, I'm hoping for a girlfriend outing 5 years from now. God bless Oprah.

[TerriM]

I told my wife 30yrs ago after 10 yrs of marriage. Lots of things happened since now and then. We are still married. My wife has never seen me dressed. I get out about 1x a month sometimes 2x. We hardly ever talk about it. I hang some of my fem clothes in our closet. The key word in my life is balance.

Yours Terri

[MandyGG]

Karren,

I have no magic words for you. I have nothing to add that you haven't already heard or felt. I have nothing that will cleanse your soul and make you feel like better person or spouse....I am empty. What I can say it that this thread brought tears to my eyes. Why? Because every wife mentioned is me. "I" am your wife, that finds things and immediately questions what they are or wonders what took you so long. (10 mins, is a LOOOOONG time! No. Really, it is!) "I" am Kathi's wife that checks body parts and bank accounts and calls during work hours. "I" am a wife that would rather it be an affair or would rather it be a sport because THAT is something that can eventually END. This will never go away. And, wow, do we ever wish it would.

I can't tell you WHY we feel this, and wouldn't you think that another wife would be able to explain it! That is the worst part of it all for me!

I look at you, Kimberly, Kathi, Brandy, and all of the wonderful and amazing CD'ers that this site has blessed me with getting to know, and I am full of pride and hope for each one of you. I see past your CDing, and I see the wonderful men that you are. I see brilliance and humor that make each one of you so unique. So very special.

But, at times, I see my husband....as less than my husband. Why would I do this? Why would I see him as less than the most amazing person that I have ever met?

Because, he is my husband and he should REMAIN the most amazing person that I have ever met. Audrey isn't amazing to me. She is someone that comes around. She is someone that takes up a few hours of my time with my husband. I can't explain why I feel this way, I just feel it. There isn't anything that he could do to change it, we just have to hope that time and love will overcome all obstacles.

I hope time and love will overcome yours as well. I just have no way of helping either of us get there.

[PretzelGirl]

Karren, I always feel for those that don't acceptance. I can always hope that it will improve for you. You have earned it whether you see it someday or not.

Next time you are 10 minutes late, tell her they had cake again. Don't forget to put some on your lips!

[Sometimes Steffi]

Karren,

"I" am a wife that would rather it be an affair or would rather it be a sport because THAT is something that can eventually END. This will never go away. And, wow, do we ever wish it would.

But, at times, I see my husband....as less than my husband. Why would I do this? Why would I see him as less than the most amazing person that I have ever met?

Because, he is my husband and he should REMAIN the most amazing person that I have ever met. Audrey isn't amazing to me. She is someone that comes around. She is someone that takes up a few hours of my time with my husband. I can't explain why I feel this way, I just feel it. There isn't anything that he could do to change it, we just have to hope that time and love will overcome all obstacles.

I hope time and love with overcome yours as well. I just have no way of helping either of us get there.

What I don't know is why you and other GGs/SOs don't see it as just clothes.

I have to admit, the first time my wife caught a glimmer of my CDing (when she found some of those plastic panty hangers that I neglected to throw out), I really thought about whether I would be in more trouble if I admitted that the panties on those hangers were for me or for someone (other than my wife) to whom I was attracted, as in an affair.

How can you feel more alone with a dedicated husband whose one flaw is that he CDs, than with a husband who is at the golf course every Sunday and even takes his clubs on vacation, or with a husband who is a serial adulterer?

I just don't get it. But, maybe it's me.

[MandyGG]

What I don't know is why you and other GGs/SOs don't see it as just clothes.

I have to admit, the first time my wife caught a glimmer of my CDing (when she found some of those plastic panty hangers that I neglected to throw out), I really thought about whether I would be in more trouble if I admitted that the panties on those hangers were for me or for someone (other than my wife) to whom I was attracted, as in an affair.

How can you feel more alone with a dedicated husband whose one flaw is that he CDs, than with a husband who is at the golf course every Sunday and even takes his clubs on vacation, or with a husband who is a serial adulterer?

I just don't get it. But, maybe it's me.

I don't really get it either! This is SO MINOR in the vastness of life! But it isn't just clothes! It is this need to express a feminine side, a feminine persona that I should be the only one in the relationship expressing. It isn't often that I feel these things, I felt them much more when I first found out, but they creep up every now and then.

99.999999% of the time, I am content, in love, and happy with my husband. So happy, that he could do no wrong in my eyes. But, when I feel like it is a problem I have learned to let it pass. It isn't worth arguing over, and it usually goes away by that evening. He never knows that I am having a mentally bad CD day. I just let them slide.

I don't really know how it is different than golf or a serial adulterer.... it just is. I guess society just embraces people like Tiger Woods. ;)

[Jacqueline Winona]

karren, as someone who is also searching for that elusive acceptance, I know where you're coming form- if I knew the key to the magic kingdom of forgiveness and acceptance I'd copy it for you in a heartbeat. I just wish you the very best on this issue.

[Jenniferathome]

You know karen, you can't apologize forever. If you have done so sincerely already, then I think it is beyond just a trust issue.

[suchacutie]

Karren, I have been on this site for 6 years and I have always stopped to read what you write in any thread I've visited. Like many here, I've admired your balance and your approach to the two genders we live with. I'm so sorry your wife has not evolved completely in this same time.

Having said that, I see the issue in a bit of a different light. It's complicated, but the start of it is the trust issue, but not that you might "sneak" off and crossdress. To me it looks like the issue is "He's not been honest with me about his genders, what else is hiding behind all of that?" In other words, I strongly feel the she thinks there is another shoe to drop, that there is something else, or at least might be, and she can't shake that feeling. As has been said above, an affair can have an ending, living in two genders is not going away any time soon, no matter what clothes you wear. It's there as a constant reminder the "the other shoe might drop at any time".

All you can do is continue to reassure her that you are still the same person she married, and that there is no other issue. Over time, your honesty will have to eventually wear down her insecurities.

My best wishes,
tina

[Kate T]

What I don't know is why you and other GGs/SOs don't see it as just clothes.

I have to admit, the first time my wife caught a glimmer of my CDing (when she found some of those plastic panty hangers that I neglected to throw out), I really thought about whether I would be in more trouble if I admitted that the panties on those hangers were for me or for someone (other than my wife) to whom I was attracted, as in an affair.

How can you feel more alone with a dedicated husband whose one flaw is that he CDs, than with a husband who is at the golf course every Sunday and even takes his clubs on vacation, or with a husband who is a serial adulterer?

I just don't get it. But, maybe it's me.

You condemn yourself with your own words. The GG's have less issues with the dressing than they do with the constant excuses and lying and wondering whether the answer they are getting is the truth (see your comment regarding the panty hangers).


Karren,

I have no magic words for you. I have nothing to add that you haven't already heard or felt. I have nothing that will cleanse your soul and make you feel like better person or spouse....I am empty. What I can say it that this thread brought tears to my eyes. Why? Because every wife mentioned is me. "I" am your wife, that finds things and immediately questions what they are or wonders what took you so long. (10 mins, is a LOOOOONG time! No. Really, it is!) "I" am Kathi's wife that checks body parts and bank accounts and calls during work hours. "I" am a wife that would rather it be an affair or would rather it be a sport because THAT is something that can eventually END. This will never go away. And, wow, do we ever wish it would.

I can't tell you WHY we feel this, and wouldn't you think that another wife would be able to explain it! That is the worst part of it all for me!

I look at you, Kimberly, Kathi, Brandy, and all of the wonderful and amazing CD'ers that this site has blessed me with getting to know, and I am full of pride and hope for each one of you. I see past your CDing, and I see the wonderful men that you are. I see brilliance and humor that make each one of you so unique. So very special.

But, at times, I see my husband....as less than my husband. Why would I do this? Why would I see him as less than the most amazing person that I have ever met?

Because, he is my husband and he should REMAIN the most amazing person that I have ever met. Audrey isn't amazing to me. She is someone that comes around. She is someone that takes up a few hours of my time with my husband. I can't explain why I feel this way, I just feel it. There isn't anything that he could do to change it, we just have to hope that time and love will overcome all obstacles.

I hope time and love will overcome yours as well. I just have no way of helping either of us get there.

Mandy

You continue to absolutely amaze me with your depth of sincerity and genuine compassion and care for others. I think you are one of the few who possibly could (and I suspect does) produce magical words that help to overcome those terrible obstacles.

[docrobbysherry]

Karren, I'm sorry! I truly am!:sad:

Relationships can be complicated. They're ALL basically the same but, entirely different as to the details!:eek:

Respect and trust r EARNED! Once you've lost them in the eyes of your SO, it may be difficult to get them back! One thing I learned from my marriage, the SO must WANT to respect and trust u again!

If they don't wish to, there's not much u can do about it!:doh:

That's NOT a relationship I could stay in! THAT'S why I'm so sorry for u BOTH! Neither of u will be happy until u get past this! Have u considered counseling? Sounds like a long shot. But, could be your last chance at happiness!?:straightface:

[Chickhe]

Ah...the trick is to stand up for yourself. Depends on your character, what you can get away with, but for something like the suitcase, you could have said..."what do you mean? (play dumb)"...everytime she makes some innuendo, you ask her to elaborate...so much that she gets tired of mentioning it... doing that puts all the effort on her to spell it out, and I gaurantee she won't want to do it. Or try the direct humorous approach..."Nope...my breastforms wouldn't fit in there!!!".

[Mimi]

Karren--thank you for trusting us enough to let your shields down and open up. I hope that at some point your SO will be able to get beyond this, and see you as the good person that you are. Clearly you love her and it pains you that she won't trust you or accept you. I'm so sorry that she isn't able to see this.

[JulieK1980]

I'm very sorry, I wish I had an easy answer to fix it all for you!

[lauren_m]

Wow, Karren, I hope the outpouring of support you've received here has helped, even if only a little. You're such a positive and (intentionally) amusing force here that I assumed, for some reason, that Karren was a major part of your home life, and that everything was bright and happy. This is yet another reminder to me that we don't always know the baggage others are carrying, and shouldn't make baseless assumptions. I join with the others here in wishing you well, and in offering whatever support, in whatever form, I can provide.

[christinac]

My thoughts and prayers are with you!!

[WifeofWrenchette]

Karren,

Try to get home earlier and try to spend more time with your wife reassuring her that you love her and the other shoe is not going to drop. Counseling could be beneficial. I know I went through a rough patch with my husband and it just took time for me to trust him again. It is something that can be rebuilt if your wife is willing to work at it with you.

good luck

[WifeofWrenchette]

This is EXACTLY the reason I told my wife LONG before we were married. To avoid the misery and pain of hiding out and being 'found out' later on down the road when the damage is magnified by the constant lies and coverup. Deceit, once manifested, is impossible to ignore.Good for you, way to go!


Well, at least you get to play some hockey. She hasn't ruled that out of your life yet. Only you can determine if that trust is recoverable, but her querry re:granny's old typewriter in the black suitcase was friggin' hilarious! :)LOL, yes it was!

[Kate Simmons]

Don't I know this Karr. After I originally told her, it was never the same for me again. She was obsessed when anything didn't seem to "click" as if It was all about CDing. In my case, she eventually left, especially after I went out in public dressed and had joined the Renaissance TG Organization. The thing is I figured if I was getting accused of doing something, I may as well be open about it when I did. That was a lose/lose situation for both of us. I've vowed never to let something like that happen ever again.:straightface:

[TGMarla]

I'm very fortunate in that even though I violated her trust in not telling her before we married, she's come to realize that other than the fact that I crossdress, I'm pretty much exactly what I appear to be. What she sees and what she's come to know is what she gets. That was my only secret. Now, I hope this is truly the case, because I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. One day, she'll come home unexpected, and I'll be all dressed up. What then? I just hope I'm wearing something really pretty.

Hang in there, Karren. It's a tough row to hoe, this whole crossdressing thing. I guess in a way, we never asked for it; it just found us and never let go.

Oh...and to all you ladies who take the "why get all upset over it - it's just clothes!" route.......

It's NOT just clothes. If it was just clothes, we wouldn't be buying wigs and fake boobies, now would we? Wives very often see this as just plain wierd, and I really don't blame them at all.

[Marie-Elise]

Karren,

First, I am sorry to read that. That is a tough situation.

My thought is that you can only do so much; it takes both sides to make it work. It appears you are doing what you can.

Trust is a hard thing to regain. I think your actions and honesty will see you through. Let your actions and words speak to your worthiness of being trusted. The rest is up to her.

[Laura912]

As one attuned to fixing things, I really want to fix this for you...but simply do not know how. Maybe time will eventually do it.

[Rogina B]

I have it really good but I will say that life is way too short to not be able to be yourself..You have health issues,you are a good provider,husband and father...why the heck won't she cut you some slack?

[bobbimo]

Karren,

"I" am Kathi's wife that checks body parts and bank accounts and calls during work hours. "I" am a wife that would rather it be an affair or would rather it be a sport because THAT is something that can eventually END. This will never go away. And, wow, do we ever wish it would.

I can't tell you WHY we feel this, and wouldn't you think that another wife would be able to explain it! That is the worst part of it all for me!
.

Thanks Maggi!
That's why i love the GG insight here. It may be hard to listen to the views of the loved ones we affect, but its vital for all of us in understanding and accepting.
There are many of us Cd''s that wish it would end. Purges be damned, but your right it all comes back. and wont end.
For me, this has changed my life. I have lost weight, started taking care of my skin, and pay much better attention to this body than I ever did as just plain Bob. I can look in the mirror and smile. That's no small feat for me either. And I'm gonna get into that size 10 no matter what it takes!
I think I have had an effect on my wife for the better too. In my exploration to discover Bobbi, I try all different types of makeup and clothing that she never would. And since we are almost the same size for most of our clothes, she get to try out different styles that she would never buy also. I just love to feel pretty. And really wish I could go about my everyday life as Bobbi, with no fear of embarrassing my self or the ones I love and care for. As it is I am very lucky that I can be as much Bobbi as I want at home, and whne the car needs fixing. Bob comes to the rescue.
Phew That was a long one.
Any way, the bottom line is the we love you, our wives and SO's. And thanks for putting up with us.

[Ally 2112]

My heart also goes out to you Karren .It seems as if you have appoligised and been honest wth your wife .Now it is time for her to give you a chance again.I hope it all works out .PS i do love your posts

[Cheryl T]

That's the odd thing about trust...It takes so long to build it up and it's shattered in moments.

Good luck Karren...

Why not try getting home ten minutes early ??

[Karren H]

I'm really truly overwhelmed by everyone's concern and comments. I'm down at one of the mines today so I haven't had a chance to read everything and comment accordingly.

[Contessa]

Usually I read through all the replies to the post or question, then either move on or post a reply myself. But it doesn't do any good to do that all the time. Everyone wants marriage to work. They don't always And most time they end in the "D" word. You can throw money and counseling at it and that doesn't always work. You have to make a few decisions now start by talking and then contemplating and more talking then make a few decisions. Or you can dwell in it and be miserable.

Just remember this if you want to Your humor can get you through this. I think in my situation it has for me. I have tried to use humor here to but I am not as good at it as you Karren. I use a bet more silly cheeky stuff. It is not always funny. But yours really makes us laugh and think. Don't do anything without talking first! You can see we all love you and believe whatever you do decide it will be right for you.

Sincerely
Tess

[Kathi Lake]

. . . I can't tell you WHY we feel this, and wouldn't you think that another wife would be able to explain it! That is the worst part of it all for me!

. . . I can't explain why I feel this way, I just feel it. And that is kind of how we feel. Many times, you ask us, "Why do you do/feel this? Why do you want to dress like a woman and go out into the world?" Our answer? I can't tell you why. It's just how we feel. Would everything change if we could articulate our thoughts and desires? Perhaps not. So, since neither of us can come up with compelling reasons on why we feel that way we do, how about if we just love each other through it? Deal?

:)

Kathi

[Debra Russell]

In my experience I think finding out about cding is = to having an affair to some wifes. I was accused of this at one time - not true - and paid the price on the couch for a week untill I finally had enough and told her if she didn't believe me it was her problem and too bad and that I loved her and was faithful, things went back to normal. I think she still knows and accepts me for who I am; however this cding only came up a few yrs ago - she would rather it hadn't but still knows that I am hers in whatever form. Acceptance-no but realizing I am still hers and putting up with me being "wierd" as she calls it is fine with me.

I am sure you have reassured her of your devotion and are faithful - maybe realization of being "wierd" may be in the offering and knowing it can't be related to unfaithfulness -- best wishes, huggs .............................Debra

[Stephanie47]

I don't really get it either! This is SO MINOR in the vastness of life! But it isn't just clothes! It is this need to express a feminine side, a feminine persona that I should be the only one in the relationship expressing. It isn't often that I feel these things, I felt them much more when I first found out, but they creep up every now and then.



Thank you Mandy! Finally, I believe I am getting a truthful answer. I posted a question elsewhere, but, here's the thought that I believe is the truth. The issue is a perception of sexuality. The female is suppose to be the woman in the marriage. Now I firmly believe all males have some vestiges of female sexuality retained after the sex of the fetus has been developed in the womb. That may be the reason for many of us expressing ourselves through cross dressing. However, that is not the issue. The issue is the perception of a woman as it relates to the standard in a marriage of who is suppose to express female sexuality. If this is the expectation of the GG, how can she relate to her cross dressing husband? And, how can she compete with his cross dressing desires? A woman once expressed to me when she discovered her husband was gay, "If it was another woman, I would be able to compete with her for him! How can I compete with another man?"

Mandy's read on the cross dressing issue is basically the read my wife has on the issue. My wife does not want to compete with another woman for her man, even if that person is her man.

[Beverley Sims]

It is a bit like coming out, we all put on a brave face to everyone else.
I jokingly say to people keep your morals up. Meaning morale here.
I assumed you had the bogey beaten, but mistrust is as bad and sad as a cancer.
Keep positive, optimistic and above all don't lose that devilish sense of humor or lose membership of the National sarcasm society.:)
Wipe your eyes, take a deep breath and as I have said already recently.
Tomorrow is the start of the rest of your life.

[Sarah Doepner]

Karren, sit down, have a cup maybe come cake and relax if you can. You have earned a quiet sit every now and then.

Somehow, and I don't know how it worked out that way, when my wife found out about my crossdressing about 10 years ago (and 25 years into marriage) she saw it as an embodiment of many of the characteristics she loved in me. It made sense that I behaved in ways that she appreciated and was attracted to and that I was trying to discover femininity in myself. Lucky me. However she also saw that I didn't trust her enough to share any of this with her prior to that little surprise. Acceptance and trust don't lodge in the same bunk I guess. Although she has been out with me when I have been crossdressed, she understands that there are many in our families who would find it difficult to remain adults if they were given this new info about me. She shares and I've dragged her into a place where she is uncomfortable.

So even though I do all I can to share everything important with her now, I always forget something and that little black cloud of mistrust hovers over the relationship. She remains in good humor when I begin to take up more closet space than has been allowed or when I take time away from the family for a monthly support group meeting or an annual trip to Diva Las Vegas. Regardless of all I do and all she accepts and understands, that deception is still part of our history and won't be washed away. I can only hope that in time I'll be able to have it shrink in comparison to all that I have done since that moment of discovery, but 25 years of hiding it is a big chunk of time to sweep away. Until that happens, I guess I'm still on probation. Good luck and patience to you.

[Stephanie47]

Sarah Charles; "that deception is still part of our history and won't be washed away away."

My wife asked why I did not tell her of my desire to cross dress. I asked her if she remembered her cousin and her talking about a mutual friend who lived down the block. Did she remember how she and her cousin whispered about her divorce because she found out about the husband's cross dressing? Poor girl! How terrible! Buzz! Buzz! Buzz! Gossip! Gossip!

My wife did not remember any of that. Well, I did. It is engrained on my brain and heart.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Like I stopped at a rest area and dressed for 10 minutes.... Ok bad example...

Naughty Karren, and the bathroom pictures. :-)


But the truth is I don't think she will ever trust me like she used to.... And it hurts... But I accept it as part of what I did or didn't do and moved on....

I really am sorry Karren. But I have hope you'll get some of the trust back. With me, I lost the trust of my sister, since it was her clothes that I wore early on. She was upset about the privacy thing, and the fact that we shared much, she was upset I didn't confide in her....it cooled our relationship for several years.


I understand completely! I often catch her staring at body parts - looking for changes. I notice she combs through bank statements, checks in with me at work (wow. She literally just called me again as I was typing this), and other things.

That brings something to mind I hadn't thought of in a while. Even after we tell, we can still engage in "separation" and secretive behavior. For example, after I told, I didn't put my makeup stuff out where a "regular" woman would have hers, I had got so used to the secrecy I kept the boxes and bags. And it was quite a while after I told that I ever let my family see me en femme. All sorts of things like that, which may influence how my family saw me. Might have been 2004 before I got over most of it, 2008 before almost all the old patterns were gone.

Anyway, if we separate this from them, it might make our family see us as still "hiding stuff". That's why I think wives/partners need to be more involved. Meaning, instead of getting up early to go out and have a femme day separate from her because we think that they don't want to see it, invite her along to see what really goes on. And of course, keep the lines of hones communication open and discuss things.


I know the trust is gone, but I haven't dressed since October.

Kathi, that's not a good thing I think, though I understand why you haven't.


What I don't know is why you and other GGs/SOs don't see it as just clothes.

Because often, it isn't. It's about a transgendered identity.


One day, she'll come home unexpected, and I'll be all dressed up. What then?

You shouldn't have to hide in your own home. I know you're trying to spare her feelings...but sometimes I think that's not the best thing to do and that it's counter-productive in the long run. But I understand why you feel that way...and I felt that way myself.


I just hope I'm wearing something really pretty.

Of course you will.


I guess in a way, we never asked for it; it just found us and never let go.

Exactly


Oh...and to all you ladies who take the "why get all upset over it - it's just clothes!" route.......

It's NOT just clothes. If it was just clothes, we wouldn't be buying wigs and fake boobies, now would we? Wives very often see this as just plain wierd, and I really don't blame them at all.

Exactly. Good response.

Veronica

[rian]

I had the same experience ...my wife discovered my nature crossdressing ......but we reached a solution ...she does not want to hear about it ....do it without my knowledge....she gave couple of her bras and some panties at the end ...but no sharing any experience.....

[Kelly DeWinter]

What I don't know is why you and other GGs/SOs don't see it as just clothes.
.......


I had to chuckle when I read this, because it really it's not "just clothes", its clothes, wigs, breast forms, makeup, fingernails and/or hormones, etc.

There is sssssssssssssssssssssoooooooooooooooooooo much more then 'just clothes'

[BRANDYJ]

I agree Kelly. I wonder how those that say it's just clothes would feel if their wife or SO wore men's clothes complete with "packed" pants, jockey shorts, mustache and beard. It is so much mpore then clothes including the internal reasons as to why we dress.

[adrienner99]

Karen-- I have ALWAYS envied how self accepting you always seem to be, and comfortable with dressing-- and I sort of took it for granted your wife supported you...guess I was wrong there!

I have never lost my wife's trust because she does not "know." So I live with a secret and I rarely even get a chance to dress.

Point, is I don't think either of us has a good choice. But at least you get to be what you are--at a high price, however. Bottom line, this whole CD s**t can be pretty impossible to do without hurting someone. I hope you take some solace in knowing you and your wonderful attitude give the rest of us some hope.

[lingerieLiz]

Sorry is about all any one can say. In my situation my wife has know long before we married. I think many women worry about loosing their "man". I have had girlfriends who were accepting, and several women friends. Many indicated they wouldn't want their husbands to CD, but like shopping with me. My wife is not a fan, but accepts. One of the things that almost sent the relationship overboard was my buying a dress when she needed one and felt we couldn't aford it. Since then we have done well and today we enjoy shopping. She would like me to buy more guy clothes, but doesn't protest if I buy women's. That is unless she thinks it's ugly. I think most women are the same as most of us. Wouldn't wish CDing on anyone.

[Rebecca W.]

Hi Karren,
This forum exists based on the mutual kindness and thoughtfulness of our fellow members. I wish you all the best in your relationship with your wife. :)

Hugs

[LaurenB]

Karren I'm so sorry for your troubles. This is a very cathartic thread because so many of us identify with the anguish brought out in your situation. The thread and subsequent posts really demonstrate the "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation many find themselves in. Even many with somewhat accepting wives have the fear that their lives could be turned upside down.

And therein lies the unjust part: that someone who is a husband and a father and a provider, maybe a veteran, typically shouldering the burden of being a male in this crazy over the top competitive society (which typically kills us 7 years earlier than our wives) but happens to have a need to turn away to a softer side of themselves that gives exquisite relief from that world, but for which there is no societally acceptable outlet has yet another thing to worry about - their marriage.

And as others have so correctly pointed out, this isn't like finding out ones spouse is philandering or is a criminal or is abusive or is a banker (just joking) or any number of unethical behaviors or just plain being a bad person. Yes ok, the activity was hidden perhaps. Maybe for years. But in this Dr. Phil driven world of total openness we know what happens when one turns out a secret like CDing - we know because we grew up sensitive males trying to hide that every step of the way in the schoolyard, this is what you get: beaten to a pulp, ridiculed, humiliated or worse. And we all remember it. Just as we have a hard time totally wrapping our heads around being female because we just weren't born that way, our GG counterparts will never understand just how vulnerable we make ourselves are when we expose our female side.

[Karren H]

I understand completely! I often catch her staring at body parts - looking for changes. I notice she combs through bank statements, checks in with me at work (wow. She literally just called me again as I was typing this), and other things. I know the trust is gone, but I haven't dressed since October.

What's it going to take?

Kathi

My wife hasn't checked my phone. She couldn't even make a call on my new Android let alone get online with it. I'm seriously thinking of just taking this year off dressing. Though I don't think it will help her any.

[JamieQ]

My wife does not even know how to use the computer. Her tying skills are so slow she would probably get frustated and give up. If she is determined to do something she will. I know someday she will get to a point to use a computer and get online... Well any ways... maybe giving up dressing for a while is not the end of the world. Like others, I assumed your wife was supportive...you all know what happens when we assume? Amanda

[Karren H]

Karen, you have been someone I've liked and admired from day one joining here. I have known about your wife's lack of acceptance for just about as long as I've gotten to learn and remember who you were. I have always admired the way you put your wife and your marriage before your own need to dress. You made it clear how this bothers you. Yet, you always did it with humor and respect for your wife. I have never sensed a selfish bone in your body. It's refreshing to me to see at least one CD put his marriage and wife first. I read to many threads where it appears the CD is whining about his wants and needs with little regard for his wife. NOT YOU. What little i know of you here from just reading your posts, you must be blessed with a terrific wife that is worth putting your needs behind her wishes. I wish there was some way she could begin to trust you, to put it behind her and begin to love all of you even if not to fully accept or even like you being a CD.
I just want to thank you for showing us that there is a way to make a marriage work in spite of not having the support of your wife and without putting her down for feelings she can't change for whatever reason. I just know you are a good husband and that you appreciate, respect and love your wife in spite of her not being able to let go of her fears or whatever it is she can't come to terms with.
Thanks Karen...Thanks for being here..Thanks for sharing... Thanks for making us laugh at times...

All this in spite of my not liking hockey and your hatred for jeans! But to me, you are one of the special ones here.

Thanks Brandy.... your too sweat.... I do have selfish bone.... When it comes to hockey and chocolate!


Hi Karren. Ugh. I just typed a whole response to this on my phone and i hit submit and boom! Internet connection lost. Sucks for me. Anyways, i just want you to know that i am very empathetic to your situation because I've put myself in situations where my own deceit led to that feeling of which you speak. The hardest part for me to deal with was dealing with the fact that it seems hopeless. It seemed as though no matter what i did, i couldn't be more honest or even try to keep things at an even keel because it seemed like no matter what i did, it got twisted into some form of more mistrust....and when you know there isn't any reason for her to mistrust you, it just hurts.
---if you don't have thick skin you may not want to read the next part---

First girl i was with knew, loved and accepted it wholeheartedly. She was awesome. However, after 5 years of such extereme highs and lows i broke it off with her and cleaned up and stopped dressing. I ended up with another girl not long after (mary). She is the one i refer to. I kept it a secret but mainly cause i didnt wanna dress anymore. Well......(pause for dramatic effect).....the dressing bug came back hard after about a year. Eventually, I told her a couple years into it. Mistrust insues. After a couple years of relentless fighting and suffering I came to the realization that it was over....i just knew. 4 years with her and i really liked her a lot. But i handled it well because i accepted long ago that there would be possible repercussions from keeping it a secret. Its not her fault. Put yourself in her shoes (lol no pun..) some girls just dont want a guy like that. I know it may not be what you wanna hear and im sorry for that but im just explaining how i got through it. Best case senario is that she wakes up and realizes what a beautiful person you are inside and out and i do hope that's what ends up happening. All my best to you sweetheart. XoXoXo


I have real thick skin Natacsha! Lol. My wife didn't sign up for this and I do not blame her for her attitude. If I was her I'd have kicked me to the curb and moved on 5 years ago... And I'm not leaving either. After my parents divorced I swore I would never put my family through that....

[Karren H]

Karren,
Do you think that if you would have told her, rather than being found out , that she would look at this any differently?

I don't think it would have mattered how she found out.... It was the fact that I was hiding it for 3 decades.....



You know karen, you can't apologize forever. If you have done so sincerely already, then I think it is beyond just a trust issue.

Sure I can! Lol.

[Marleena]

It was the fact that I was hiding it for 3 decades.....

I think you missed your calling, you should have been in the CIA to keep Top Secret information Top Secret!:D

[Karren H]

Karren,

Try to get home earlier and try to spend more time with your wife reassuring her that you love her and the other shoe is not going to drop. Counseling could be beneficial. I know I went through a rough patch with my husband and it just took time for me to trust him again. It is something that can be rebuilt if your wife is willing to work at it with you.

good luck

More time? Funny but my boss and I joke that the only reason we haven't retired yet is because neither of us have figured out how to live more than two days in a row. With our wives. Lol. We spend a lot of time together. Probably way more than the average couple.

[Foxglove]

Karren, I've read and re-read your post, and I really wish I knew what to say to you. It sounds to me like she's being very harsh indeed. After all, it's quite clear you're trustworthy in every other way, so why dwell on this one thing? It's like she's got something on you and doesn't want to let it go.

I hope things get better. You deserve better than you're getting.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[Karren H]

Karren, I've read and re-read your post, and I really wish I knew what to say to you. It sounds to me like she's being very harsh indeed. After all, it's quite clear you're trustworthy in every other way, so why dwell on this one thing? It's like she's got something on you and doesn't want to let it go.

I hope things get better. You deserve better than you're getting.

Best wishes, Annabelle

Harsh is relative.... She's 100% harsh, 1% of the time.... Overall its really not that bad.... But trust isn't something you can weight average... Kind of like breathing... If you breath 23 hours and 55 minutes a day that's a great average but at the end of the day your still dead! Lol.

And even though I wish it was better.... I'm fine with it... My fault its this way and I'll live with what ever consequences there are.... It could be a lot worse. We've seen that here time and time again...

[Sam-antha]

...

Just an update on what's going on. After what 6 years.... Nothing really.
She turns to me and says "you want to give me a hint on what's in here before I open it up?". Well.... I think its your grandmothers old typewriter....

Well, it could have been part of that old antique truck exhaust or a fossil of uncertain age.

Seriously, life's bridges all have a hump, some are gradual, others might be big enough to throw one off the bridge. Not this one tho', its been a long time and trust is the one thing that grows, or sofrt of regrows most of the time since it is based on love and understanding. It is minor that understanding is also based on knowledge, which is of necessity, often a missing element.

~Samm

[Sometimes Steffi]

You condemn yourself with your own words. The GG's have less issues with the dressing than they do with the constant excuses and lying and wondering whether the answer they are getting is the truth (see your comment regarding the panty hangers).


I know my lying is bad, and I'm trying to get past it. But you heard MandyGG; she'd prefer that it was an affair.

Some GG have less issues with the dressing than with the lying. My wife has more issues with the dressing.

Not to shift blame, but if my wife was more understanding about it, I could be more honest without fear of reprisals.


I had to chuckle when I read this, because it really it's not "just clothes", its clothes, wigs, breast forms, makeup, fingernails and/or hormones, etc.

There is sssssssssssssssssssssoooooooooooooooooooo much more then 'just clothes'

I agree. At one time it was just bras and panties, then just clothes, then the full presentation with makeup, fingernails, forms and wigs. But no hormones, and I don't expect to ever go there.


I agree Kelly. I wonder how those that say it's just clothes would feel if their wife or SO wore men's clothes complete with "packed" pants, jockey shorts, mustache and beard. It is so much mpore then clothes including the internal reasons as to why we dress.

Yeah, I understand. But being a CD myself, I'd love to see my wife in jockey shorts. In fact, she (sometimes) wears Jockey Elance for women and I (sometimes) wear Jockey Elance for men. In some styles, you need to look at the size tag to figure out which is mens and which is womens.

[MandyGG]

I know my lying is bad, and I'm trying to get past it. But you heard MandyGG; she'd prefer that it was an affair.

Some GG have less issues with the dressing than with the lying. My wife has more issues with the dressing.

Not to shift blame, but if my wife was more understanding about it, I could be more honest without fear of reprisals.

You are right, we would rather it be an affair because it means that it could end, and crossdressing is a lifetime commitment on the spouse. But, what you are failing to remember is that you are NOT having an affair, you are crossdressing, and when she DOES find out.... because she will!.... she is going to mad at you for lying about it! Then you are right back to square one!

[Sometimes Steffi]

You are right, we would rather it be an affair because it means that it could end, and crossdressing is a lifetime commitment on the spouse. But, what you are failing to remember is that you are NOT having an affair, you are crossdressing, and when she DOES find out.... because she will!.... she is going to mad at you for lying about it! Then you are right back to square one!

Oh she did find out about it. She came home early from church as I was packing my suit case to go out of town. I was so involved in what I was doing that I didn't hear her return, and she caught me red handed with some bras and panties that I was about to pack. And she did go ballistic. But I still don't know if she was more mad about the lies or the crossdressing.

So, when I say I'm still lying, its typically for the times when I want to go to a GNO, and I fear that she will go ballistic again. However, I did come clean about my desire to go to the Keystone (TG) Conference in March, and she allowed me to go. It was the first time I had been out dressed when she knew that I was out.

But she really didn't want to know any more than that I was going. She didn't ask to see my clothes. She didn't ask if I would be wearing forms (I did) or a wig (I brought 3). So, I think by not telling her the truth about everything, I am abiding by her wishes to not know everything. It's like she has some idea what's going on, but just keeps saying La La La La to avoid hearing the details.

But I'm working on a plan to obtain permission to go to a GNO.

[MandyGG]

It sounds like a DADT situation then.... Those are tricky, and I don't know any wives that are in one to ask!! Just try to keep the lies to a minimum still! You never know when her mind might change, and you will want to have an honest slate if she does.

[Kate T]

I must have been in a bitchy mood, sorry Steffi. I like Mandy's advice.

Also remember sometimes GG's have the willies with the CD'ing because it is just a reminder of the lies. I suspect sometimes they don't even realise it themselves but a part of the reason they hate the CD'ing is that every time you do it it just reminds them of all the lies you told about it before. I genuinely believe most truly loving SO's want to and do continue to love their partners but there is some damage to trust and respect that has to be repaired.

[Claire Cook]

Karren,

I've read and re-read the posts in this thread and like everyone else here my heart goes out to you. You've been such a source of support (not to mention all of the laughs!) that to hear about your situation makes it all the more poignant. I guess we all deal with hiding things from our wives / SO's, and feel the guilt that we hurt them with the lack of trust and honesty.

But I find it hopeful is that you both have made and are making the best of it, as several of your posts indicate:


Thanks.... A bunches. I really never expected any kind of improvement. Quite to the contrary I expected our relationship to go south and never recover. But maintaining the status quo isn't all bad. Imho. And we have a good marriage as long as we each play the parts scripted out on the marriage certificate!

I think you've said a lot for you both here.


Somethimes I think an affair might have been easier to recover from? On the positive side she let's me play all the hockey I want!! Ok. Almost all the hockey I want....

Even with the pink socks and hockey stick?


My wife hasn't checked my phone. She couldn't even make a call on my new Android let alone get online with it. I'm seriously thinking of just taking this year off dressing. Though I don't think it will help her any.

This sounds like a major sacrifice!


More time? Funny but my boss and I joke that the only reason we haven't retired yet is because neither of us have figured out how to live more than two days in a row. With our wives. Lol. We spend a lot of time together. Probably way more than the average couple.

.. and I think this says volumes too.



And even though I wish it was better.... I'm fine with it... My fault its this way and I'll live with what ever consequences there are.... It could be a lot worse. We've seen that here time and time again...

Sadly, we have. I just wish there was sort sort of magic wand we could wave to fix things, but there isn't any single solution. Every couple is different, and faces a different set of circumstances and feelings. Guess the best we can do is offer encouragement and empathy.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Karen I find it rather sad that you are in this position - I do understand the trust issues as my husband told me after almost 30 years of marriage. It was more about the lying and sneaking than the clothes that bothered me. But having thought long and hard about why he hid this from me, I now understand and know that he didnt do this to decieve me - it was more about not wanting to reveal this part of him that might have damaged our relationship - I can really get that now.

As for an affair being preferable - I can only speak from my viewpoint but no, it certainly wasnt for me. My husband had an affair some years ago and it nearly drove me to suicide. It was far far worse than the CD'ing. It was without doubt the most horrible, hurtful and degrading thing in my life.

His dressing is quite acceptable to me and even something we can both share - it doesnt take him away from me and yes, I did have issues about only wanting one female in the relationship but I realise now that it just isnt that big a deal.

I wish with all my heart your wife could move past the mistrust - I know its not easy but if she could just see what a truly lovely person you obviously are and that you have no desire to hurt or deceive her. I often get the sense from your posts that you are just a little bit sad that things are the way they are and that makes me a little bit sad too.

[ReineD]

Ohh well... I don't open up much so that's about the most your going out of me... raise the shields Scotty!

That's the problem Karren. My SO is much the same way, not out of a desire to hide anything from me, it's just the way she is and has always been. She keeps her emotions and many of her thoughts about more personal things to herself. For example, a few years ago she went to the BeAll conference, an entire week of full-time with tons of other people, a makeover & photoshoot, interesting lectures, social outings, etc. Her account of the whole thing was, "yes, I enjoyed it". :p She had prepared for weeks, in fact a week before the event she had told me to deal with an issue I was having with a girlfriend because she had to pack.

Had it been me, I would have described in detail a near hour-by-hour account of all my impressions. lol I was intensely interested in not only what the various aspects of the conference were like, but more importantly how it affected her emotionally and her impressions of others there, who she felt more in sync with, what she thought about the talks. She didn't even want to tell me what talks she had attended. And in the absence of any feedback, my only recourse was to fill in the blanks by myself (despite my knowing the chances of getting it right were slim). You can imagine where my mind took me. I trust my SO implicitly, but I had all these nagging feelings based on stuff I read here and elsewhere. I wondered if going to such an event made her regret being a GM. I wondered if she had been attracted to anyone there. I wondered what lectures she had attended, the more policial trans-rights talks, or the talks about FFS & SRS. I knew I shouldn't have felt this way, but I couldn't help feeling that if she did not care to discuss such a momentous (in my opinion) event, it was because she didn't want to upset me, and so she instead preferred to keep an important part of who she is to herself. And so I imagined the worst. :sad: It's been quite a few years now and I have a much better idea of who my SO is, but at the time I did feel hurt by her reluctance to be more open.

If you (and my SO) became more like an open book, it would leave much less for us SOs to imagine and (being human), possibly fill in the blanks with the worst. If this makes sense.


You are right, we would rather it be an affair because it means that it could end, and crossdressing is a lifetime commitment on the spouse.

Mandy you bring up a good point, but I've seen GGs devastated when their husbands made them believe they were having affairs (when the GGs found panties in the car for example) rather than tell them about the CDing. Just saying that some of us would rather hear the truth.