Time for coming out?

[sierra_g]

Today was my first real appt with my therapist.
She made a diagnosis of TG. I am not sure how official that diagnosis is, or if it is just to please the insurance. Either way, she told me that she feels that although I am not textbook TS, I am definitely TS. I am not banking on that at all for now. I may be, I think it is still too early. We will see. This wasn't my last appt, it was my first.

Anyway, before I went, I decided to come out to 2 of my closest friends. I am slowly building up to bigger and bigger people in my life. These friends I am telling can in no way effect me except for either walking away or congratulating me.

The one I actually told today took it rather well. I had hoped he would. He asked basic questions, told me about his many adventures, it was great. We ended the conversation as if we had been talking about nothing. Great.

The one that was a little busy today will take it well. I know him. Very liberal, always votes for human rights, etc.

So, finally my question.
My wife wants someone to talk to. The one she wants to talk to most is my step-mom. I don't know that I am ready to come out to my father at this moment in time. I want to wait till I am 100% for sure about everything and my process has started. I don't want them to find out 10 years down the road, but I am just not ready. We came out to her mom, and while her mom says she is ok and still loves me, I fear she is angry.

My wife doesn't understand. If I am on a path that isn't going away, then why don't I tell everyone now?

I am working my way up to family. The thought of coming out to them right now scares the bejeezus out of me.

I have compromised for now, I told her I would come out to one of her friends that we both know. They are strong good Christians that are very open and accepting usually. I hope that they are very understanding and give good advice.

So, thoughts?

Thank you everyone. ♥

[Kate T]

I'm not TS so I don't know but some things seem a lttle odd:

1. A therapist diagnosed you as TS after 1 session?? Is that common. I would have thought it would take more than 1 session to sift through all the stuff and make sure that there weren't other factors.
2. To me you seem to be telling people completely different from how I would have thought. My thoughts would be that I would tell my loved ones and people close to me that will be affected first before I would be telling a friend that could just "walk away" as you put it.
3. Did you ask your wife if you could come out to your friends? If you didn't then exactly how can you have a say in whom she confides in?

[Rianna Humble]

Congratulations on finding the courage to go to a therapist, but I do have concerns with anyone who will diagnose you as TS after a single conversation. Also my understanding of therapy was that the therapist was supposed to guide you to ask the right questions of yourself to allow you to decide.

It is entirely your choice who you tell and in what order, but I hope you will give some serious thought to how you answer your wife's question. I think you are doing the right thing in taking notice of her need to have someone else to talk to. Is there a special reason why she would prefer your step-mum? If so, is there any way you can disclose to your step-mum without also disclosing to your dad?

[Sandra]

I do have concerns with anyone who will diagnose you as TS after a single conversation. Also my understanding of therapy was that the therapist was supposed to guide you to ask the right questions of yourself to allow you to decide.

Yep I agree, Nigella had 5 sessions and she had been living as herself, name change, work etc for quite a few years before she admitted she was TS. One session is now where near enough time.

[LeaP]

The term for first sessions is intake sessions. They are used to establish the clinical relationship - actually assess mutual fit - and start to gather information. A lot of information. Diagnoses aren't just opinions rendered on experience, there is a process used to provide some statistical assurance of being correct (look up the term "differential diagnosis").

"TG" is not a diagnosis. That is better characterized as an opinion that there is something going on in you that is gender-related. If your therapist tossed out that you are transsexual in a first session, I would question their competence.

[Marleena]

I think it's great you're seeing a therapist Sierra. It seems things are going too fast towards diagnosis though. Maybe things were said to get you thinking, IDK. Saying you're TG is simple enough if you have the desire to present as a woman. A TS diagnosis should take many more sessions.

I think coming out is going way too fast too. If you end up being CD instead nobody really needs to know. If you go 24/7 then it's different.

It's not a race to the finish, JMO. Good luck.:)

[Julia_in_Pa]

Sierra,

One therapy session does not make a valid diagnosis.
Please don't think that I don't believe your TS, I'm very sure you are but as far as professional therapy goes as well as following Standards Of Care (SOC) protocol you have been grossly under served.

Therapy is not a black and white process but ethereal as it delves into what needs to be brought to the light of day.
This takes much much more than just one session for your therapist to break down the building blocks of your psychological makeup in order for proper study and analyses to take place.

With all of this said you do know what you are, you just need an official diagnosis.

Concerning telling family and friends who and what you are; With a spouse as the exception, Until your ready to proceed towards full social transition meaning full time, 24/7 with a solid date in place
then KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By revealing who and what you are prematurely you are greatly risking being shunned and ostracized by those that you would never think could do something like that to you.
If you end up not transitioning and if some people have walked away from you due to what you told them you have caused irreparable harm to yourself by doing this so don't do it!
Trust me for I personally know what I'm talking about concerning all of this.

Let's summarize,

Continued therapy
Keep your mouth shut


Keep moving forward.



Julia

[BRANDYJ]

Sierra, you asked for thoughts in your closing. So I will give you mine.
I have read your posts in the other threads and have commented on them. You now say you are on the path What path do you mean? it sounds like you have already decided to continue down the path of transition. Sounds like you have already made up your mind that you are TS. If nor, then what path are you talking about? It's like you hope and wish to be diagnosed as a TS so you have someone's support about your transition. I do understand your councilor said TG and NOT TS. If she had said you are TS in one session, I'd be finding someone that is really a professional. I agree with others on that point.
My biggest concern is for your wife that did not sign up for any of this. Sounds like you are so set to be on the path, (as you call it), that your wife is of lessor concern to you. I don't mean to be judging you, but that is what I sense from all you have said in all your other posts. Honestly, I have more concern for your wife and your children right now then I do for you. This seems so much more important to you then your family. I hurt for you, but again, it's your wife and children I am worried about. Maybe I'm different, but I could not put anyone through this. But then again, I can't even fathom putting myself through this IF I was TS.

[LeaP]

I agree with Julia on disclosure. There is NO reason for disclosure right now. One reason is that not all transsexuals transition and what someone does privately to cope is their own business. You have to own and control the decision on the path you take, but that should involve a lot soul-searching with both your therapist and your wife, if for no other reason than you can't control the outcomes and need to be prepared. Brandy's concern for your wife is well-taken. Should you transition, so will she in a very real way.

You mentioned your wife seeing someone. At some point that should include your therapist, either alone or with you. Your therapist will likely bring that up anyway. She can also seek someone for herself.

[Babeba]

Honestly? You have had so much control in all of this. You decided when to tell your wife, you decided when to do therapy, I remember from your old thread you decided when her post partum issues should be over, you decided to tell her friend... Let her make one decision on who SHE wants to tell and get advice and support from. In terms of how hard a time she is having, and if you are so set on this it will come out sometime anyway, let her tell that one person who may help her.

[Stephenie S]

As Julia said, "Keep your mouth shut!"

Wonderful advice. Spot on.

I agree that a diagnosis after one therapy session is questionable.

And, BTW, you should not try and control who your wife talks to or doesn't talk to. She is involved in this situation, and she is a grown woman with thoughts and opinions of her own.

Stephie

[Stephanie-L]

I agree with the others, if your therapist diagnosed you as having any sort of gender problems on your first visit then you need a different therapist. Yes, it is great that this one agrees with you and is going to give you what you want (presumably letter for hormones, etc) but they do not know you well enough yet to say with any certainty what is going on with you. I went to two different therapists, both of them for several sessions, before they diagnosed me with GID. This because I am a very cautious person, and the with first one I wasn't ready to transition yet.

As to telling folks, I also agree you are going way too fast. Why do you need to be telling people yet, except for your wife. If you do go on down the road to transition, it takes months for the first subtle signs to show up, and even then most people don't notice them. For most people, full transition takes years. This is not always the case, I have an aquaintance who went from starting hormones and therapy to living full time and getting ready for surgery in 8 months, but she was an exception. Even if the physical changes didn't need time, the emotional and mental changes, both for you and those around you, take time to happen.

I would recomend that you go back to your therapist and have a talk about what they meant, are you TG, TS, gender confused, etc. If they say that all the signs point that way, fine, but if they make a formal diagnosis this quickly, then go find someone else. Take your time, this is the rest of your life, and you need to do it the right way so you don't regret it in the end...............Stephanie

[sierra_g]

Thank you all so much for your replies.
Like I said, I seriously doubt that it is an official diagnosis, the therapist is very smart and has worked with TS patients before. She is the only Therapist with Gender Identity training and experience in 200 miles. We are working with Medicaid and they have to have all the paperwork filled out within the first couple sessions. They can't wait 2 years to decide if I should even be seeing a therapist. Like I said, this isn't my last appointment, it was my first. First of many. We will go into the depths of my mind and as long as she isn't scared into a corner from what she sees in there, I am hoping for some great self discovery.

Today, SO goes to see the therapist. I am hoping for the best. She actually just left.

I am pretty sure we decided not to tell my dad and step-mom, and instead will just tell a few close friends so we have people that know us that we can talk with.

Either way, when and how did you all tell your parents and other family members?

BrandyJ, you are right in many ways. I know I am being selfish and rude. I know I am lucky she hasn't thrown me out on my ear. I know she loves me and this is hurting her. I feel horrible. If I could, I would just wipe it all out of my life. I cannot though, so I am stuck with the decision of if I can shelf it for 15 years, or if it is a strong enough need that I have to embrace it now, risking everything and everyone around me. I feel that I should remind you that I don't post every thought in my head. If I was as selfish as some of my posts (and some of the other people's about me) I would've been out the door already. I am trying to keep my family together at almost any cost. I have hurt my family in many ways, and I feel terrible for doing it. I look back on the past few years and I've been all over the place since I started dressing 3 years ago. I have attempted fetishes that were either not feasible, or too uncomfortable for my wife. I have tried to reshape my wife's morals and thoughts. I have boldfaced lied to her. I am incredibly lucky she has stayed this long. Until just recently, I didn't see the damage I was truly doing. Now, I feel that I am beginning to get a grasp on it. When I look at this website, I see countless threads that are about divorce, separation, coping, and selfishness. Whether it is CDing, or full on SRS, this is not an easy subject matter, and no matter how accepting everyone's SO is, or how much we let them take the reigns, they are for the most part, just along for the ride. Many SO's just want to throw the box away and live their lives without any part of it forever. They understand it is a need though, and make every attempt in their power to keep their marriage together. Some can take it, some can't. My SO wants me to wait until the kids are old enough to understand before I start any sort of transition. About 15 years from now. At that point, is it a need or a want? Also, how healthy is something like that when I am in my 50's?

Babeba, I didn't tell any of her friends. She told her mom, but then decided that her mom isn't doing any good, so now she wants someone else to talk to. Is my relationship with my father worth risking right now when she has others she can talk to? Yes, it will happen that I will come out to everyone, but the longer I can delay it to some people, the better.

[Stephanie-L]

To reply to some of the points you brought up in your second post. I have not told any friends or family yet. I am planning on telling one of my sisters today or tomorrow, because she is the only one I am close to and that I think will accept me. My parents are very close to the end of their lives and I see no reason to upset them over this when they will probably be gone before anything that they will notice happens.

I am getting divorced, in part because I am TS and she does not accept that, but there are other huge reasons for it also. My kids are older, the youngest is 17, but I have decided to wait to tell her until the divorce stuff is mostly past, no sense throwing too much at her at once.

As for your wife needing to talk to someone, hopefully talking to your therapist will help there. Beyond that, you know the old saying, two can keep a secret if one is dead, meaning, you told her, rightly so, and now she can choose to tell or not tell anyone she wants. If she is compassionate she will discuss it with you first, which it seems she is. I do understand her needing someone to talk with, that is my hardest thing, I have nobody yet to talk to that I don't have a professional relationship with. There are those on this forum who will tell you to speak to Nobody about your transition until it is done, but I feel that people do need some sort of interaction about big things like this, just to help you figure out where you are.

I wish you the best of luck with this, it is not an easy road to travel no matter which way it goes...........Stephanie

[LeaP]

Either way, when and how did you all tell your parents and other family members?

I have attempted fetishes that were either not feasible, or too uncomfortable for my wife. I have tried to reshape my wife's morals and thoughts. I have boldfaced lied to her.

...My SO wants me to wait until the kids are old enough to understand before I start any sort of transition. About 15 years from now. At that point, is it a need or a want? Also, how healthy is something like that when I am in my 50's?

Babeba, I didn't tell any of her friends. She told her mom, ...

Three people, all transsexual themselves, know that I'm TS, plus my therapist, and my physician - and she's TS. None of them any direct connection to my work or home life. I tell no-one until there is a need.

I'm unclear what you meant to convey with your comment on fetishes and your wife's morals. What does this have to do with being TS?

People have transitioned in their 80s, never mind their 50s. There are people on this site who have transitioned in their 50s. One of them underwent SRS a week ago. When I mentioned being too old to my therapist, she actually laughed.

If your wife told her mother, and you have told a few friends, you are already at serious risk of having lost control of your messaging, hence one aspect of your life and (potential) transition.

[Bree-asaurus]

Sierra,

One therapy session does not make a valid diagnosis.
Please don't think that I don't believe your TS, I'm very sure you are but as far as professional therapy goes as well as following Standards Of Care (SOC) protocol you have been grossly under served.

Therapy is not a black and white process but ethereal as it delves into what needs to be brought to the light of day.
This takes much much more than just one session for your therapist to break down the building blocks of your psychological makeup in order for proper study and analyses to take place.

With all of this said you do know what you are, you just need an official diagnosis.

Concerning telling family and friends who and what you are; With a spouse as the exception, Until your ready to proceed towards full social transition meaning full time, 24/7 with a solid date in place
then KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By revealing who and what you are prematurely you are greatly risking being shunned and ostracized by those that you would never think could do something like that to you.
If you end up not transitioning and if some people have walked away from you due to what you told them you have caused irreparable harm to yourself by doing this so don't do it!
Trust me for I personally know what I'm talking about concerning all of this.

Let's summarize,

Continued therapy
Keep your mouth shut


Keep moving forward.



Julia

I agree with most of this. Don't tell anyone until your being TS is going to directly affect their lives. But I didn't wait until I was 24/7 to come out. I am one of he lucky ones though, where 95% of the people I came out to simply cared about me, and it didn't matter to them if I was a boy or a girl. They cared about my safety and my well being. Except for two horrible people who cared about their public image more than they cared about me... but whatever :P

Also, I'm always skeptical when a therapist diagnoses someone as transexual... I like the way my therapist did it. He never diagnosed me until I asked his opinion. And that was well after I came to my own conclusion that I am transexual and was already making plans for HRT and everything. I asked him "So... we've been talking about me being transexual for some time now... but you never actually diagnosed me. What do you think?" And that's when he told me, that yes, he believes I am transexual.

I think if you can't come to the conclusion yourself, and a therapist tells you what you are, you may make decisions based on that diagnoses that you may not have otherwise been ready for. I loved the way my therapist would just make me question myself and challenge me to come up with my own conclusions. Never once did he tell me what I am or what I should do. And I think that's what a good therapist should do: they should challenge you.

[sierra_g]

Three people, all transsexual themselves, know that I'm TS, plus my therapist, and my physician - and she's TS. None of them any direct connection to my work or home life. I tell no-one until there is a need.

I'm unclear what you meant to convey with your comment on fetishes and your wife's morals. What does this have to do with being TS?

People have transitioned in their 80s, never mind their 50s. There are people on this site who have transitioned in their 50s. One of them underwent SRS a week ago. When I mentioned being too old to my therapist, she actually laughed.

If your wife told her mother, and you have told a few friends, you are already at serious risk of having lost control of your messaging, hence one aspect of your life and (potential) transition.

I feel that I am betraying our friendship by not telling certain people. I have some friends that if I told, it would be all she wrote, the idea of confidentiality is lost on them. I am not planning on telling them. Others, are already taking secrets to the grave, as am I. I know they are trustworthy to the point of torture.

My comments on fetishes and morals are just showing that I've put my wife under a lot of undue stress and have been overly an ass for the past few years.

Those ages do make it a little bit better, but IMHO, if you can honestly not care about having to wait 15 years before starting any of it, then I challenge the idea of it being a necessity in the first place.

I don't understand where you say "serious risk of having lost control of your messaging". What do you mean?

Thanks!

[knitknerd]

The two people it matters to the most are you and your wife. It is tricky enough trying to figure out how to keep your marriage through all of this. I don't recommend involving others unless you have to. It is certain though that you both need support apart from each other. As a wife, I still haven't found someone I can talk to outside of this forum. It is tough because you both have to agree who and when and be sensitive to each other while trying to meet your own needs if you want things to work.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I feel that I am betraying our friendship by not telling certain people. I have some friends that if I told, it would be all she wrote, the idea of confidentiality is lost on them. I am not planning on telling them. Others, are already taking secrets to the grave, as am I. I know they are trustworthy to the point of torture.

My comments on fetishes and morals are just showing that I've put my wife under a lot of undue stress and have been overly an ass for the past few years.

Those ages do make it a little bit better, but IMHO, if you can honestly not care about having to wait 15 years before starting any of it, then I challenge the idea of it being a necessity in the first place.

I don't understand where you say "serious risk of having lost control of your messaging". What do you mean?

Thanks!

You are not thinking this through enough..control of your message means exactly that.

you are saying things in this op..then later saying you didn't mean it that way..we understand, we all share similar issues, bu you need to be more careful...what exactly do you tell somebody right now? hopefully you are not saying things like "i had one therapy appt and i've been diagnosed as tg"...to many members here that is a huge red flag..

...they have no idea what to do with this information and its strange info, they will share it sooner of later...

I know you are smart ...

you don't owe these folks information until its neccessary...whether you like it or not, they may be talking about you...you will never know who knows and who doesnt....perhaps you don't care, but you need to know that people will be AGAINST you..they will try to turn people against you, they will doubt you, and they will disbelieve and undermine you..

..and you wont even know that they know about you!!! because your "friend" doesnt want you to know they told

..and as time goes on, the people you've told will expect things to happen, and as you find just how long a slog this really is, you may wish you had more time to figure out a good plan A.......

[Raynefall]

Everyone keeps saying "Don't tell them, don't tell them." Why not? Why should you wait? You have to realize that whether you come out now or later they will act the same. They will either approve or disapprove. Why should you keep these people in your life if they don't accept you for who you are anyway? Doesn't sound like a very good family member or friend to me. Yes you may never transition. But don't you still want the freedom to be who you want?

So don't listen to all of these people who value worthless "friendships" and just do it when you feel is right. Doesn't matter what comes out of it. If you are meant to be in that persons life and vice versa then everything will be okay.

I have held back from telling everyone except my gf. It's not that I don't want to tell everyone. I just can't get the words out. But I do intend on telling people whether or not I have gone to therapy first and found out if it's official. I would rather have people know the true me than the one I project. I don't need a diagnosis to be told who I am. ^_^

[BRANDYJ]

Sierra, I have a feeling that you are not TS. I'm speculating based on a few things you have said in various threads including this one. I have a suspicion that you have some suppressed sexual needs and urges that do involve crossdressing. It is hard for me to admit it, but been there done that. in the end my sexual needs and fantasies played a big part in why I am divorced today. In my case it had nothing to do with gender confusion or a feeling of being TS. I never had those feelings beyond fleeting moments back in my 20"s. I ended up hurting a very giving, very loving woman due to how strong my needs were. If I had it all to do over again, I'd have seen a professional or at least wish I had a support group like this one, to straighten my very screwed up head out. I put those needs in front of my marriage. I live with it....the biggest regret of my life.

Yes, I loved my wife, but was stupid enough, blind enough, foolish enough to allow my wants to ruin a 19 year marriage. I feel lucky in that today she and I are friends and do care about each other. But the love is gone. We did not have any children between us. If we did, and I did this foolish thing, I don't think I could live with it. I did loose a step-daughter that I loved very much. I hope I'm not looking at a man that is about to do the same things I did. This is the only reason i admit it here. If I can STOP one man from hurting a good woman, like I did. if I can STOP one man from having the regrets I feel today after almost 7 years of being divorced.
I am blessed in so much as I have a beautiful SO now that I love deeply, and she loves me just as I am. I learned to appreciate her. Something I blindly and perhaps selfishly did not do in my last marriage.

So again, I think you are in fact a CD and not a TS. You need to take a deep look at that. Only you know for sure. But I feel you are not being honest with yourself. And if I'm right, can't you be happy IF your wife accepts that and is OK with you dressing as much as you can out of the eyes of your kids?

Well so far, my diagnosis is at least as valid as that councilor you saw just once. I do wish you well. But my heart goes out to your wife and kids. You had better damn well be sure what you are and what you want. Or you may be writing a message like this trying to help someone 7 years from now...with your own regrets.

As for telling friends and family.... I think you need to be honest with yourself as to whether or not you are a CD or a TS first. If in fact you are a CD, no need to let everyone know. None of their business!
I'd tell only IF I knew I was TS and ONLY if I was going to start living 24/7 as a female. Then and only then does it make sense to tell everyone you mentioned.

[Babeba]

My apologies, Sierra. I misread your post where you said as a compromise that you would come out to friends of hers who were good Christians and thought you already had.

There are some on this website who would possibly question being TS if you could wait until your 30's to start seriously questioning or looking into it, so to anyone outside your particular situation there will always be some quirks they don't get.

To be honest, it is some of the fetish-related posts you have made that helps make me skeptical. I am not saying one cannot have fetishes if they are a transsexual, but that given the link your fetishes seemed to have with female-ness, plus dressing, makes me a little hesitant to want to put a label so quickly on you.

There are many on this earth with strong, well-developed male and female parts of themselves... Or whom are in a lot of ways neither or both at once. The transgender umbrella encompasses a lot of people.

[BRANDYJ]

Babeba, you see it the same way I see it. Thanks for putting it in better words.

[LeaP]

I don't understand where you say "serious risk of having lost control of your messaging". What do you mean?

Sorry, this is businessspeak. Habit. Kaitlyn's answer was perfect.


Everyone keeps saying "Don't tell them, don't tell them." Why not? Why should you wait? You have to realize that whether you come out now or later they will act the same.

How people take a message depends on content, tone, timing, attitude, other people present, conditions, sequencing, delivery method, structure and semantics, context, and lots of other factors. A person delivering information has far more control of the reaction than most realize. I just came from an extended meeting where the topic was message delivery on a package of projects related to an acquisition - because the person responsible had screwed it up and caused a furor in the senior management team. It was relatively easy to fix ... once it had been thought through. Had it not been addressed, it would have been a train wreck, including compliance and regulatory implications.

[ReineD]

Congratulations on finding the courage to go to a therapist, but I do have concerns with anyone who will diagnose you as TS after a single conversation. Also my understanding of therapy was that the therapist was supposed to guide you to ask the right questions of yourself to allow you to decide.

This is my understanding as well, especially if someone is just starting out. Is this a person who has clinical training in all aspects of trans issues, or is she or he a family therapist who has also counseled some people with gender issues? And has she or he counseled both CDers and TSs, or have they identified as TS and were seeking letters for HRT?

I just want to say that I have a friend who is a psychologist, currently in a family practice group. She used to be the clinical director in a prison for the criminally insane, and she is trained in this facet of psychology extensively. She told me once that the only training she has ever had in gender issues was reading a chapter in a text book. She got her PhD about 20 years ago, and unless she has kept up to date with all the current research, she is sorely behind the times if she relies on a 20 year old text book. :p

Also, remember. Once you tell people, you can never "untell". I would wait until you've gone out enough times until it is old hat (beyond the stage of having it be new and exciting), before coming out to everyone. You might well change your mind.

[KellyJameson]

Hi Sierra

I'm of the opinion that being TG does not show up unannounced but leaves it's fingerprints all over your past and like a detective the evidence should be examined before a conclusion is reached.

I understand the need to live honestly because self worth comes from self acceptance and living unashamedly is not a priviledge but a right. I urge caution before you communicate to others something as complex as this because you could confuse them and make acceptance more difficult if not impossible.

Continue in therapy with a gender therapist because in my opinion this can be a brutally difficult experience to understand let alone articulate to others. The world can wait, get to know exactly who you are first and this will protect your relations with others.

[Kate T]

Everyone keeps saying "Don't tell them, don't tell them." Why not? Why should you wait? You have to realize that whether you come out now or later they will act the same. They will either approve or disapprove. Why should you keep these people in your life if they don't accept you for who you are anyway? Doesn't sound like a very good family member or friend to me. Yes you may never transition. But don't you still want the freedom to be who you want?

So don't listen to all of these people who value worthless "friendships" and just do it when you feel is right. Doesn't matter what comes out of it. If you are meant to be in that persons life and vice versa then everything will be okay.

I have held back from telling everyone except my gf. It's not that I don't want to tell everyone. I just can't get the words out. But I do intend on telling people whether or not I have gone to therapy first and found out if it's official. I would rather have people know the true me than the one I project. I don't need a diagnosis to be told who I am. ^_^
Dont do as I do, Do as I say?

I would be going with the advice of those that have "walked the walk" on this one I think.


I feel that I am betraying our friendship by not telling certain people.
You will not betray your friendships but you are willing to betray your loved ones (i.e. Father and step mother) and place further pressure on your wife.


Those ages do make it a little bit better, but IMHO, if you can honestly not care about having to wait 15 years before starting any of it, then I challenge the idea of it being a necessity in the first place.

Your argument here makes a mockery of itself. You have already waited 30+ years.

OK, warning, CD ranting here so I will apologise in advance.

IF you are TS then we all know you didn't "choose" to be. But you DID choose to get married. You DID choose to have children. You made those choices. You must take the responsibility. You don't get to hide behind a veil of sympathy about your gender. Right now, to me, it reads like you ge to decide who to tell, you get to decide who your wife can tell, you get to decide if and when you are diagnosed and you get to decide when you transition. Right now I think you need to take a good long hard look in the mirror and decide if you are going to leave everyone behind floundering in your wake. You could do that but you will be very short of support when you come out the other end and perhaps need it even more than you do now.

[sierra_g]

IF you are TS then we all know you didn't "choose" to be. But you DID choose to get married. You DID choose to have children. You made those choices. You must take the responsibility. You don't get to hide behind a veil of sympathy about your gender. Right now, to me, it reads like you ge to decide who to tell, you get to decide who your wife can tell, you get to decide if and when you are diagnosed and you get to decide when you transition. Right now I think you need to take a good long hard look in the mirror and decide if you are going to leave everyone behind floundering in your wake. You could do that but you will be very short of support when you come out the other end and perhaps need it even more than you do now.

After a long talk last night, my wife asked me if she could out me to three people and then we would be done with the outing for a while. First, her sister (not blood sisters, the daughter of the lady we live with and REALLY good friend since they were little kids), and then they would talk to the mom (who we live with) together. Eventually, the sister would also tell her husband, but probably not for a while, as I doubt he will be very understanding.

Why did I say yes?
She wants to be able to talk to someone, and I want to be able to move freely around the house while dressed, not locked away like it is something shameful. Also, there is no way to go out dressed if her mom doesn't know.

Many of you say that I don't think about my wife, and I make all these decisions without her. I don't. I do think about her before I act. Many times, I am wrong about how she will feel about something, but I do attempt to feel out a situation before I try something new, and 99% of the time I will run something by her before doing it. Yes, there are some things I don't. I am still learning what is acceptable and unacceptable in her eyes, and as she learns more, and adapts to the situation, that is changing. As she reads, learns, or sees me doing something, she will become ok with something that wasn't the day before, or she will stop accepting something that she had previously accepted and been ok with. I am trying to learn how to work with that, but I think we are slowly coming to a compromise. I think letting her have people that are close to her and close to the situation will help. I am not sure how comfortable I am with telling these people, especially since they could ultimately force me out of the house, but if my wife says they will be ok, then I have to trust that she is right. Yesterday I found out that my wife wants us together as much as I do, so I have to trust her. I don't know when she is going to talk to them, but I am guessing today or tomorrow.

[sierra_g]

Your argument here makes a mockery of itself. You have already waited 30+ years.


That wasn't what I was meaning at all. Sorry! Here is an attempt to lay out my entire thought process...

If you discover that you are TS, are ready to start transitioning, but feel that the timing isn't right. Maybe in 10 or 15 years, the timing will be better. For now, you will just stay living as a guy (or girl for FTM). It isn't important enough to make it a now thing.

Supposedly, for most it is "Transition or Die". for many others, it is "Transition or self loathe". That cannot go on for very long. It isn't healthy. Something MUST be done.
People go for 20, 30, sometimes 60 years before they start the transition process because self discovery hadn't kicked in, but I don't hear about people who discover who they are, and then for personal reasons decide to hold off until timing is better.

Hopefully, that is a bit clearer. I do tend to not be sometimes. Sorry!

[LeaP]

Supposedly, for most it is "Transition or Die". for many others, it is "Transition or self loathe". That cannot go on for very long. It isn't healthy. Something MUST be done.
People go for 20, 30, sometimes 60 years before they start the transition process because self discovery hadn't kicked in, but I don't hear about people who discover who they are, and then for personal reasons decide to hold off until timing is better.

Better timing is one scenario. So is sacrifice. There are many ways to live and many ways to die. There are as many valid reasons to transition, or not, as there are transsexuals. I'm not about to judge someone else's motives or their pain.

[KellyJameson]

I wanted to share a few more thoughts with you Sierra.

The greatest obstacle to my believing and accepting that I have gender dysphoria is myself even though my whole life is a testament to the dysphoria.

In childhood everyone said I would outgrow my peculiar behavior and I believed them so tried to force myself to "become a man" and basically tortured everyone including myself that I came into contact with.

This was not done with malice or intention because I do not have rage or suppressed anger hidden in me and I'm actually very gentle and feel incredible remorse when I hurt others.

The best analogy I can give would be driving a car while blind and so people were hurt who rode in the car with me because of the inevitable accidents that followed, the difference is driving a car while blind is an act of irresponsibility because it is a choice where gender dyphoria is not a choice.

I have spent hundreds of hours in therapy since childhood and it has not cured my gender dysphoria but actually has had the opposite effect and brought it out into the open yet I still refuse to embrace what I know to be true because I'm afraid of what it will mean for me if I accept the truth of it so I slide up to it sideways by avoiding people who reflect back to me the identity that is opposite of the one I own (female) and by making physical changes to my outward appearance.(compromise)

My fear is still keeping me a prisoner and so I see myself from a distance without ever actually becoming myself, in a sense I'm split in two and this is how I have managed to survive.

The question than becomes what will happen first, death or a nervous breakdown when the fear that I use as fuel is no longer available to sustain my ability to live as two different people in one body.

I have isolated myself from people who do not see me truly because I cannot be seen truly in the body I reside in and I have isolated myself from me to suppress the terror of non-existence.

Those who think being TG means you automatically transition and if you do not you are not really TG are prejudicial to the extreme and best to be avoided because they will not only increase your considerable pain, they have intellect without heart.

I'm able to watch this as if it is happening to someone else and it leaves you with an indifference to life and the risk that you will tip into a preference for death because life offers so few pleasures to make it worth living, you go through life feeling numb filled with anxiety that you will hurt yourself to escape being conscious, to escape being alive.

Please avoid people filled with hate, this is just the expression of their own fears and anger and be very careful for the burden of guilt you may carry for hurting others for something you have little control over and did not choose.

[sierra_g]

My wife and I decided to tell her "mom", who we live with tonight. We just finished the conversation.
Her opinion isn't aligned with mine, and isn't really aligned with my wife's, but she was mostly positive about it. Being an ex-hairdresser, she doesn't care too much. She can't wait to see me en femme, but mostly for humor. Like I told my wife, if her laughing at me bothers me, I have no business walking out the front door as Sierra.

Tomorrow probably will be her sister. Kinda backward of how it was going to go, but whatever. It really does feel great knowing that I can roam the house while dressed!

[Raynefall]

Dont do as I do, Do as I say?

I would be going with the advice of those that have "walked the walk" on this one I think.


First off I would like to say that those who have "walked the walk" on this one... A lot of them started this 5-10+ years ago. Do you realize how much of a difference that makes in the thoughts of people? It's huge how much more acceptance there is towards gay/lesbian/cd/tg. So don't just brush me off because you think you know better. But even still you took what I said out of context. I simply said to not listen to everyone saying "No don't do it" and make a choice for yourself. Because this process is unique to everyone including the people around that person. Nobody can say that it will end badly when they have no idea of that persons circumstances. So don't cop an attitude about what I said and dismiss me because I haven't been through the process. This is why I only post in the Young Members section. Because all that ever happens outside of it is complete dismissal and rudeness for absolutely no reason. It's called respect. You really need to try it sometime.

Now that I am done with that nonsense. Congratulations Sierra! I am happy to hear that it worked out well. Gives me more hope in telling my mom. My gf and I currently live with her as well and I would love the feeling to walk around "en femme" all the time. So thank you! ^_^

[Bree-asaurus]

First off I would like to say that those who have "walked the walk" on this one... A lot of them started this 5-10+ years ago. Do you realize how much of a difference that makes in the thoughts of people? It's huge how much more acceptance there is towards gay/lesbian/cd/tg. So don't just brush me off because you think you know better. But even still you took what I said out of context. I simply said to not listen to everyone saying "No don't do it" and make a choice for yourself. Because this process is unique to everyone including the people around that person. Nobody can say that it will end badly when they have no idea of that persons circumstances. So don't cop an attitude about what I said and dismiss me because I haven't been through the process. This is why I only post in the Young Members section. Because all that ever happens outside of it is complete dismissal and rudeness for absolutely no reason. It's called respect. You really need to try it sometime.

FORWARD: This isn't a defense of Adina. She has said a few things I don't agree with at all in her response to you. I'm kind of just talking on related points.

But anyway...

It's all just advice and opinions... if you don't like it, you don't have to take it. Raynefall, you don't want to be brushed off, but you brush off everyone who said "OMG NO DON'T DO IT OMG OMG OMG" because they're all old and came out 10 years ago. I must be old too... jeez...

Nobody is saying that everything has to end badly. But even though LGBT people are more widely accepted today doesn't mean it's all unicorns and rainbows either. Apparently you haven't read too many threads of the youngins having major issues coming out. I've seen many people my age and younger having issues here as well as the many transsexuals I have met in real life.

I've been one of the luckier ones. I've only lost a couple incredibly important people in my life... but I know people my age and younger that have lost FAR MORE. If I could go back and come out to those people later on in my transition I would have... it would have saved all of us a lot of heartache... even if it ended up the same way.

Both sides have valid points... one isn't going to win over the other. Let's just share our opinions and experiences and let it be. This goes for you too Adina... being a self proclaimed CD, I think you should leave the advice on dealing with transsexual issues to the transsexuals... especially in regards to your bit about the choices transsexuals did make and blah blah blah.

[Raynefall]

I honestly would like to apologize if it came out that way. I wasn't saying to brush off everyone else's opinions. I was meaning you cant just listen to everyone saying don't do it and make the choice yourself. You don't even have to listen to me. That's just my opinion. It's not that they did it earlier or are "old". It's just that the times change and really this topic is per case. Most posts were going strictly off of their experience and not bringing up the fact that there is no typical outcome for these things. Especially in the times we are living in. Which is why I made my post. Otherwise I wouldn't have posted in this thread at all.

I also know it's not rainbows and lollipops.. (Oh how I understand that) But that doesn't mean that it must turn out terribly like some of the responses indicating that it likely would.

So to anyone who took/takes offense I truly am sorry. I wasn't disrespecting your opinions. I was simply sharing my own.

Edit - Sorry... I like to edit my posts a lot. I re-read after I post and realize there are better ways to word things. Lol.

[Bree-asaurus]

I honestly would like to apologize if it came out that way. I wasn't saying to brush off everyone else's opinions. I was meaning you cant just listen to everyone saying don't do it and make the choice yourself. You don't even have to listen to me. That's just my opinion. It's not that they did it earlier or are "old". It's just that the times change and really this topic is per case. Most posts were going strictly off of their experience and not bringing up the fact that there is no typical outcome for these things. Especially in the times we are living in. Which is why I made my post. Otherwise I wouldn't have posted in this thread at all.

I also know it's not rainbows and lollipops.. (Oh how I understand that) But that doesn't mean that it must turn out terribly like some of the responses indicating that it likely would.

So to anyone who took/takes offense I truly am sorry. I wasn't disrespecting your opinions. I was simply sharing my own.

Edit - Sorry... I like to edit my posts a lot. I re-read after I post and realize there are better ways to word things. Lol.

No need to apologize... I may have read into your post a bit. But you didn't disrespect me... I'm not offended. I was just talking and stuff cuz my brain likes to pretend like it knows stuff and sometimes it doesn't shut up :P

[Raynefall]

No need to apologize... I may have read into your post a bit. But you didn't disrespect me... I'm not offended. I was just talking and stuff cuz my brain likes to pretend like it knows stuff and sometimes it doesn't shut up :P

Lol. I get that too. It's okay! ^_^

I am apologizing because I honestly feel bad. I hate to disrespect people in any way. It emotionally hurts me. So I want to apologize to anyone if they feel disrespected by myself. It's just my experiences with posts outside of the Young Members section have always just been blown off or possible rude comments back towards me. So it really upsets me and makes me feel like I should just stop posting outside of that section. This is no excuse it is just an explanation.

[Bree-asaurus]

Lol. I get that too. It's okay! ^_^

I am apologizing because I honestly feel bad. I hate to disrespect people in any way. It emotionally hurts me. So I want to apologize to anyone if they feel disrespected by myself. It's just my experiences with posts outside of the Young Members section have always just been blown off or possible rude comments back towards me. So it really upsets me and makes me feel like I should just stop posting outside of that section. This is no excuse it is just an explanation.

No you should definitely post here. A wide variety of experiences is good. When I joined, I was just barely too old to join the young section. I still feel like a kid though... I'm 28 and started transitioning two years ago and I've had almost nothing but good experienced (sans two terrible people I used to call family). Haven't lost a single friend. I've only had one issue in public, and that was a creepy old dude looking for some tranny action.

[Kate T]

This goes for you too Adina... being a self proclaimed CD, I think you should leave the advice on dealing with transsexual issues to the transsexuals... especially in regards to your bit about the choices transsexuals did make and blah blah blah.

Point taken and accepted Bree. It is possible I have misinterpreted Sierra's posts and applied my own personal biases. My concern is (/was) that Sierra appeared to be pushing the needs of others in her life aside in order to satisfy her own needs. I think this is unwise. There is no doubt Sierra's needs are urgent and important but I strongly feel that they need to be balanced with the needs of others, most importantly those whom her decisions will have a direct impact on and who she has responsibility for (i.e her wife and children).

[MandyGG]

It really does feel great knowing that I can roam the house while dressed!

The TS group can take this how they see it. Given that just a few short weeks ago when Sierra was nothing but a confused, and frustrating, CD, no one batted an eyelash at her.

Sierra, you seriously need to sit down with Mrs. G, and put this gender questioning aside for a minute and figure out what to do TOGETHER. You have openly admitted that you have been into different fetishes, going head first and heavy into each of them.... Now look at you... You talk about CD/TS as if it is just about the clothes! You are turning your entire life upside down and you don't even know what you want yet! LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO YOUR WIFE!!!!!

You may very well be TS, but you are swearing on one opinion from a therapist that called you TG!! NOT TS!!! And, how in the hell would she even know after 1 visit!?!? Almost every male in this forum is TG! TS and TG are NOT the same diagnosis! Yes you are TG because you wear panties, that doesn't mean go get your ****** wacked off! Three weeks ago, you were wanting to know if your eyes looked pretty WHILE you were losing your wife! Because you were so focused on the femme that you weren't even caring about anything else!!! Now, since you have decided to tell every single person that you know, you are wanting to live full time as Sierra!?!?

This makes no sense to me! Go. Read your very first posts! You are in a pink fog that is so thick that you can't even move in it! First she gave you an ultimatum. You bulldozed that over. She gave you a week. You bulldozed that by wanting to shave your legs and pits. She gave you space. Bulldoze. She gave you freedom. Bulldoze.

TS's you can trash me all you want for saying this.... but I have kept my mouth shut over it long enough.

Sierra. Open your eyes. If, with a calm and clear head with no pink fog, you can genuinely say that you want to be female for the rest of your life, then I will eat my words.... but you need to be 100% honest when you do it. Honest with Mrs. G. Honest with your children. Honest with yourself. Please, think about everyone else right now and give yourself a moment of clarity. You have admitted that you have no patience and that you are selfish. Admit it right now and give Mrs. G a damn moment to catch her breath before you bulldoze something else!

[WifeofWrenchette]

Wow Mandy good post. I am a GG too so my opinion on the matter may not be valid to some, but it is my opinion and has been for a while that Sierra is indeed a CD in a thick pink fog and doesn't realize it. I'm not a doctor, but just from reading her posts this is what I think too.

I wish Mr and Mr G the best going forward to figure this all out.

[Rianna Humble]

Wow Mandy good post. I am a GG too so my opinion on the matter may not be valid to some, but it is my opinion and has been for a while that Sierra is indeed a CD in a thick pink fog and doesn't realize it.

Hi Wrenchette, your opinion is every bit as valid as any other contributor here. I hope you will find that most of us who are regulars in this particular forum appreciate and value the contributions of our GG friends.

[BRANDYJ]

Great posts by Mandy and Wrenchette. I also agree with Rianna that Wrenchette's opinion is every bit as valid as anyone elses. it makes no difference whether you are a GG, CD, or TS, to see an out of control train barreling down the tracks to a dead end.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The TS group can take this how they see it. Given that just a few short weeks ago when Sierra was nothing but a confused, and frustrating, CD, no one batted an eyelash at her.

Sierra, you seriously need to sit down with Mrs. G, and put this gender questioning aside for a minute and figure out what to do TOGETHER. You have openly admitted that you have been into different fetishes, going head first and heavy into each of them.... Now look at you... You talk about CD/TS as if it is just about the clothes! You are turning your entire life upside down and you don't even know what you want yet! LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO YOUR WIFE!!!!!

You may very well be TS, but you are swearing on one opinion from a therapist that called you TG!! NOT TS!!! And, how in the hell would she even know after 1 visit!?!? Almost every male in this forum is TG! TS and TG are NOT the same diagnosis! Yes you are TG because you wear panties, that doesn't mean go get your ****** wacked off! Three weeks ago, you were wanting to know if your eyes looked pretty WHILE you were losing your wife! Because you were so focused on the femme that you weren't even caring about anything else!!! Now, since you have decided to tell every single person that you know, you are wanting to live full time as Sierra!?!?

This makes no sense to me! Go. Read your very first posts! You are in a pink fog that is so thick that you can't even move in it! First she gave you an ultimatum. You bulldozed that over. She gave you a week. You bulldozed that by wanting to shave your legs and pits. She gave you space. Bulldoze. She gave you freedom. Bulldoze.

TS's you can trash me all you want for saying this.... but I have kept my mouth shut over it long enough.

Sierra. Open your eyes. If, with a calm and clear head with no pink fog, you can genuinely say that you want to be female for the rest of your life, then I will eat my words.... but you need to be 100% honest when you do it. Honest with Mrs. G. Honest with your children. Honest with yourself. Please, think about everyone else right now and give yourself a moment of clarity. You have admitted that you have no patience and that you are selfish. Admit it right now and give Mrs. G a damn moment to catch her breath before you bulldoze something else!

PRetty much everybody here is saying the same thing..

Sierra, it might be hard for you to believe but people are trying to help...i wonder if you feel a bit hammered by all the comments, but based only on the posts you've made, pretty much everything you've posted points in one direction..and very experienced and well meaning people are reaching out to you hoping to put the brakes on a bit...nobody wants to stop you from transitioning if that's what you want to do... but they are warning you that if you want it to go well, you are well served to think this through, and they are pointing out that you are saying alot of things that do not resonate with people that are ts...and trust me, transition totally and completely SUCKS in every way EXCEPT you get to be your own gender....

its certainly possible that you are transsexual, and just expressing yourself differently...... but i wonder if you realize there are LOTS (more than ts) of people that love being en femme in the house, going out occasionally, shopping with their wife, enjoying girl time, enjoying ts and cd friendships, and even traveling and spending weekends at events en femme...this is a very valid tg lifestyle.....some transsexuals try to pursue this and call it the middle path, but mostly its very confident and fulfilled crossdressers..i wonder if this is what you are doing and you are just calling it being transsexual...

We've all spent more time with you than your therapist...no therapist i've ever known would sign off on a "diagnosis of tg" on a first interview.....i begged my therapist to diagnosis me, and dr maureen osborne one of the most well known in the country just smiled and told me how unfair that would be to me..., and tg is not ts anyway..

[MandyGG]

I just want to clarify, the reason that I felt that I would get backlash is because of Bree telling the CDers to leave the TS issues to the TS members. So I felt as though you women, whom I greatly respect, would get mad at my two cents for not even being TG....much less TS.

[Bree-asaurus]

Point taken and accepted Bree.


I just want to clarify, the reason that I felt that I would get backlash is because of Bree telling the CDers to leave the TS issues to the TS members. So I felt as though you women, whom I greatly respect, would get mad at my two cents for not even being TG....much less TS.

I may have been a little out of line. I was being a little harsh on Adina because I felt she was being a little harsh and extreme herself.

It's good to have all kinds of people share their opinions. Both Adina and you should share. Sorry if I went a bit overboard. I've been a little stressed lately and that probably hasn't helped.

And Mandy, I guarantee you that I do not speak for all transsexuals... there are plenty who disagree with me. So don't assume because I'm being a retard and say something retarded that all transsexuals feel that way. I'm really grateful that we have GGs (and CDs and any other group) here that want to join in the conversation.

[sierra_g]

The TS group can take this how they see it. Given that just a few short weeks ago when Sierra was nothing but a confused, and frustrating, CD, no one batted an eyelash at her.

Sierra, you seriously need to sit down with Mrs. G, and put this gender questioning aside for a minute and figure out what to do TOGETHER. You have openly admitted that you have been into different fetishes, going head first and heavy into each of them.... Now look at you... You talk about CD/TS as if it is just about the clothes! You are turning your entire life upside down and you don't even know what you want yet! LOOK AT WHAT YOU ARE DOING TO YOUR WIFE!!!!!

You may very well be TS, but you are swearing on one opinion from a therapist that called you TG!! NOT TS!!! And, how in the hell would she even know after 1 visit!?!? Almost every male in this forum is TG! TS and TG are NOT the same diagnosis! Yes you are TG because you wear panties, that doesn't mean go get your ****** wacked off! Three weeks ago, you were wanting to know if your eyes looked pretty WHILE you were losing your wife! Because you were so focused on the femme that you weren't even caring about anything else!!! Now, since you have decided to tell every single person that you know, you are wanting to live full time as Sierra!?!?

This makes no sense to me! Go. Read your very first posts! You are in a pink fog that is so thick that you can't even move in it! First she gave you an ultimatum. You bulldozed that over. She gave you a week. You bulldozed that by wanting to shave your legs and pits. She gave you space. Bulldoze. She gave you freedom. Bulldoze.

TS's you can trash me all you want for saying this.... but I have kept my mouth shut over it long enough.

Sierra. Open your eyes. If, with a calm and clear head with no pink fog, you can genuinely say that you want to be female for the rest of your life, then I will eat my words.... but you need to be 100% honest when you do it. Honest with Mrs. G. Honest with your children. Honest with yourself. Please, think about everyone else right now and give yourself a moment of clarity. You have admitted that you have no patience and that you are selfish. Admit it right now and give Mrs. G a damn moment to catch her breath before you bulldoze something else!

Mandy, I respect your opinion far more than most GG's on this forum. You've really helped. All your replies, no matter how harsh, are constructive. They don't just pick on me and the situation. They are filled with love, concern, and honesty. Thank you.

Ok, here we go...
It really does feel great knowing that I can roam the house when in Sierra mode. Last night, Mrs G and I dressed. It was great. I am still dressed right now in fact. You need to understand that my feeling fem is an all the time thing. I actually feel weird when I have to pop into full on guy mode for our friends. I don't dress everyday, and last night was the first time that I was able to roam the house en femme without fear of being caught. Mrs G has repeatedly told me that no matter if I am TS or whatever, that CD is the furthest she ever wants it to go. If that means denying who I may be, then so be it. Many on here don't think I am anything more than being equal parts M/F. I truly don't know what I am at this moment. I consider myself TSQ for now. I have told everyone what makes me feel that I am TS, and although it's only been a month, most of those feelings haven't changed, and some have grown stronger. I admit I've pushed a few of them, but for now at the request of my SO, I have stopped pushing forward. Separation has been talked about a lot more than divorce lately, an idea that SO never believed in. I would hate it if we did so (I don't want to lose my family!), and I would have to watch where my depression took me. Even from the little bit of depression after our almost daily arguments, I feel the need to bury my maleness and push Sierra into the lead. I wouldn't want to push myself like that and then find out it was only depression. I am attempting to have a clear head.

Did you read my previous posts on this thread where I said...
"Like I said, I seriously doubt that it is an official diagnosis, the therapist is very smart and has worked with TS patients before. She is the only Therapist with Gender Identity training and experience in 200 miles. We are working with Medicaid and they have to have all the paperwork filled out within the first couple sessions. They can't wait 2 years to decide if I should even be seeing a therapist. Like I said, this isn't my last appointment, it was my first. First of many. We will go into the depths of my mind and as long as she isn't scared into a corner from what she sees in there, I am hoping for some great self discovery."
I don't think she can make a valid diagnosis yet. Like I said before, I think I fit into the TSQ group if anything.

Please tell me, what do you think needs to happen to lift this "pink fog"? I love and respect my wife and I am not pushing or bulldozing. I am trying my darnedest to live within her boundaries and not push. It isn't in my nature at all, especially with something that feels so right, but I am trying.

I've wanted to live full time long before I found this site, but until I found it, I didn't know the difference between CD, TS, TG, etc. I thought they were all one group. A CD was just an untransitioned TS. I didn't have a clue. Since I started on here, I've read other's stories, I've talked to CD's and TS's in PM's and I've really gotten a very good look at this cross-section of the community. I am far more educated as to what a textbook TS is, a textbook CD is, and the shades of grey in between. I think this has really helped in my decision making process. I still don't have all the answers, but at least I am headed there.

Mrs G and I have had a lot of talks. She has told me repeatedly that there is a concrete line between CD and TS. If I cross that, we are done. Upon my first HRT appt, we are done. She isn't going to learn to accept it, no matter what. If I decide that I am truly TS and choose to follow that path instead of staying with my family, then we will be done. If I decide to deny myself at that point and just live life as a CD then we can stay together.
We've also talked about my waiting till the girls are grown before I transition. She bounces on this. Sometimes that is what she wants, but sometimes she doesn't want to wait that long to find out the answers. She would rather not be almost 50 and suddenly single.

I feel horrible for her. I didn't mean to drag her into a big mess like this, but we are here, and making due.

Lastly, I didn't decide to come out to everyone. She asked if we could. She wanted to come out to her mom, and then she wanted to come out to her "mom" and now she wants to come out to a few other people.

I am sorry if this post is jumbled, I was purely spewing out answers and rewriting them to be more P.C. and friendlier. I don't want to come off as upset, catty, or anything else like that. I do appreciate your reply!

[sierra_g]

PRetty much everybody here is saying the same thing..

Sierra, it might be hard for you to believe but people are trying to help...i wonder if you feel a bit hammered by all the comments, but based only on the posts you've made, pretty much everything you've posted points in one direction..and very experienced and well meaning people are reaching out to you hoping to put the brakes on a bit...nobody wants to stop you from transitioning if that's what you want to do... but they are warning you that if you want it to go well, you are well served to think this through, and they are pointing out that you are saying alot of things that do not resonate with people that are ts...and trust me, transition totally and completely SUCKS in every way EXCEPT you get to be your own gender....

its certainly possible that you are transsexual, and just expressing yourself differently...... but i wonder if you realize there are LOTS (more than ts) of people that love being en femme in the house, going out occasionally, shopping with their wife, enjoying girl time, enjoying ts and cd friendships, and even traveling and spending weekends at events en femme...this is a very valid tg lifestyle.....some transsexuals try to pursue this and call it the middle path, but mostly its very confident and fulfilled crossdressers..i wonder if this is what you are doing and you are just calling it being transsexual...

We've all spent more time with you than your therapist...no therapist i've ever known would sign off on a "diagnosis of tg" on a first interview.....i begged my therapist to diagnosis me, and dr maureen osborne one of the most well known in the country just smiled and told me how unfair that would be to me..., and tg is not ts anyway..


Thank you Kaitlyn, our talks have helped so much, I appreciate and respect all you have to say. Your messages and posts to me are always valid and inspiring.

I am very aware of the CD lifestyle. A common sign of CD is that they feel the need to dress in women's clothing. I don't get that need. It makes me feel calmer and happier. There is a strong want, but the need isn't there. I can feel like a woman wearing men's clothes. It is actually quite difficult to make me feel like a man.

I have heard that the transition is a very hard road and one day I may learn it, but I may never know that road. I realize I am not textbook TS, but can you honestly tell me that you are? Does anyone fit EVERY mark, or just MOST of them?

I just quoted myself in my message to Mandy, but I will do it again.

"Like I said, I seriously doubt that it is an official diagnosis, the therapist is very smart and has worked with TS patients before. She is the only Therapist with Gender Identity training and experience in 200 miles. We are working with Medicaid and they have to have all the paperwork filled out within the first couple sessions. They can't wait 2 years to decide if I should even be seeing a therapist. Like I said, this isn't my last appointment, it was my first. First of many. We will go into the depths of my mind and as long as she isn't scared into a corner from what she sees in there, I am hoping for some great self discovery."

I am not banking on that diagnosis. I think it was just for paperwork. It was a first step though. One day in 1, 2, 5, or even 10 years, I may be truly diagnosed as a true TS, or I may come to the realization that all these feelings of needing to be a woman were just a pink fog.

I am not trying to justify myself as a TS. I am not trying to "trick" anyone into thinking I am, or anything else. I would be doing a horrible job of it if I were.

Anyway, thank you.

[sierra_g]

Great posts by Mandy and Wrenchette. I also agree with Rianna that Wrenchette's opinion is every bit as valid as anyone elses. it makes no difference whether you are a GG, CD, or TS, to see an out of control train barreling down the tracks to a dead end.

If you are going to call me names and attempt to make fun, why don't you provide some actual answers in your posts. It is one thing to call someone a "out of control train barreling down the tracks to a dead end" but providing solutions on how to save the train and it's passengers is totally different. That is called constructive criticism. For instance, with this post I am telling you that I don't like something that you said, but instead of being mean about it, I am providing a solution with the message.

For more tips and tricks on this, please check out the many other people that yell at me consistently on here. Most are very constructive.

Trust me, I know I am in the wrong about 90% of the time. It doesn't matter if I lay off, push forward, listen to my wife, don't listen, ask her opinion, ask your opinions, ask a question, be honest, or anything else. Everyone seems to get mad at me and make me feel like I am a horrible person for having the feelings I have. My wife and I are still together and we still talk. Except for one night, we still sleep in the same bed, and I am trying. It will never be the same again, I don't want it to be. My SO says that the man she married is gone. I am sorry for that and cannot ever change that, but as long as she is willing to stay with me, I will keep trying to keep us together.

Thank you.

[WifeofWrenchette]

Sierra,

I don't think Brandy was calling you names. It seems to me that her post was an observation of the events that are happening, not personally calling you names. The situation is that you will lose your children and your wife and your male parts and years down the road may realize that is not what you truly wanted.

Pink fog can sometimes last a couple of years. It's what happens when the CD'ers are new to the situation. There is not an easy fix. At first you will want to be dressed 24/7 and go gung-ho into the dressing as much as possible...which is what is happening.

After a while though things should calm down and you will only want to dress when stressed or when the mood strikes.

Just because RIGHT NOW you want to be dressed 24/7 does not make you TG.

TG people transition because they were born in the wrong body (gender).

You have a history of different fetishes, which leans more towards to the CD side.

[Bree-asaurus]

You have a history of different fetishes, which leans more towards to the CD side.

I just rescanned this thread and didn't see any mention of fetishes. That's not to say they aren't there... maybe I missed them. I really want to make a comment here, but because I am kind of unclear on this, I don't want to stick my foot in my mouth.

I do see Sierra mentioning that how she feels isn't all about the cloths... can I get some further enlightenment?

[sierra_g]

I just rescanned this thread and didn't see any mention of fetishes. That's not to say they aren't there... maybe I missed them. I really want to make a comment here, but because I am kind of unclear on this, I don't want to stick my foot in my mouth.

I do see Sierra mentioning that how she feels isn't all about the cloths... can I get some further enlightenment?


I am probably not the best one for this reply, as I am kinda one sided toward myself, therefore, I will keep it short.

My wife and I think that I was trying to fill a hole caused by my transgenderism. I wanted to be subbed to extreme levels with ABDL, Forced Fem, and just plain old sub/dom. I was, and still am, very much a fan of a female led world.
I am now past all those fetishes though. It's been months since the last time we practiced any of that.

With the dressing, I am not really sure yet where it all fits. I am happier in fem clothing and I love makeup, etc. I don't get off on it, but I used to on different levels. It's been a few years since I put on a dress and found myself 'over the top' from it, but lingerie and things that would please my guy urges would get me going when we did the forced fem. It is tough to explain, as I am still very confused on where I am at, and I am still learning.

I hope that is clearer for you :D

Sierra ♥

[Kate T]

Bree you were hard but fair on calling me out.

Rereading that post it was not only a little arrogant but, and I refer specifically to the part about choices, it essentially read that anyone who decides to transition is selfish and does not care about the people who love them. Even though that was not my true intent it is a rudeness that is so embarrassing that I apologise for any offence that may be taken. You are correct Bree, I do not have a true understanding of the pain and suffering that someone who is TS goes through and to pass judgement on them as selfish or uncaring is arrogant in the extreme.

It seems to me that those who are TS often must make choices where the options are bad, and even worse. Is the trick trying to work out which is the worst choice? I don't know. Is there ever a good choice, for everyone involved I mean?

Sierra, I don't think that you wish to hurt your loved ones. You yourself have said that your posts at times are a bit unclear. Is that possibly because your thoughts are also unclear on this? You have taken what should be the best course of action in speaking to a gender counsellor / therapist. Perhaps now you need to be a little bit patient and let the dust settle. As Kaitlyn has said, that is what most responses on this thread are saying.

I do hope that you can make the decisions that are the best (/least worst?) for everyone concerned.

[sierra_g]

Sierra,

I don't think Brandy was calling you names. It seems to me that her post was an observation of the events that are happening, not personally calling you names. The situation is that you will lose your children and your wife and your male parts and years down the road may realize that is not what you truly wanted.

Pink fog can sometimes last a couple of years. It's what happens when the CD'ers are new to the situation. There is not an easy fix. At first you will want to be dressed 24/7 and go gung-ho into the dressing as much as possible...which is what is happening.

After a while though things should calm down and you will only want to dress when stressed or when the mood strikes.

Just because RIGHT NOW you want to be dressed 24/7 does not make you TG.

TG people transition because they were born in the wrong body (gender).

You have a history of different fetishes, which leans more towards to the CD side.


We will see how it all goes in the future.

My definition of pink fog is a jaded one.

Pink Fog: What a SO uses to push a TSQ toward CD instead of transition. The SO doesn't budge on their calling it pink fog until the TSQ finally can't stand it anymore and either transitions (turning TS) or is beaten and broken and just fools themselves into being happy wearing women's clothes.

I know the risks, and trust me, they are being weighed heavily. I am not headed for transition in the next few months, or probably the next year, if ever. I don't even have a real diagnosis, or anything else.

Right now, I do enjoy being much more feminine all the time. I am not a fan at all of being male, but I am when need be. I wear men's clothing almost all the time, and to be honest, I feel more at home in fem gear.

You said that TG people transition because they are in the wrong body, I think you mean TS, and that thought has run through my head a few times before. I should remind you that not all transitioning TS's feel that way. There are some who weren't born wrong, but they still NEED to change genders for one reason or another.
Lastly, you mention my history of fetish. My SO and I have asked ourselves what we think that was. What we seem to agree on is that I was attempting to cover the CD and my TS thoughts I was having and the hole in my life I was creating. I was using fetishes that are on the outskirts of CD. Forced Fem and AB/DL.

We could definitely be wrong about that. It could be vice versa, but like I said in the beginning of this post, we will see how it all goes in the future.

[WifeofWrenchette]

I just rescanned this thread and didn't see any mention of fetishes. That's not to say they aren't there... maybe I missed them. I really want to make a comment here, but because I am kind of unclear on this, I don't want to stick my foot in my mouth.

I do see Sierra mentioning that how she feels isn't all about the cloths... can I get some further enlightenment?Sierra talked about it another thread. Before I responded I read ALL her threads to be clear as to what was going on.


We will see how it all goes in the future.

My definition of pink fog is a jaded one.

Pink Fog: What a SO uses to push a TSQ toward CD instead of transition. The SO doesn't budge on their calling it pink fog until the TSQ finally can't stand it anymore and either transitions (turning TS) or is beaten and broken and just fools themselves into being happy wearing women's clothes.

I know the risks, and trust me, they are being weighed heavily. I am not headed for transition in the next few months, or probably the next year, if ever. I don't even have a real diagnosis, or anything else.

Right now, I do enjoy being much more feminine all the time. I am not a fan at all of being male, but I am when need be. I wear men's clothing almost all the time, and to be honest, I feel more at home in fem gear.

You said that TG people transition because they are in the wrong body, I think you mean TS, and that thought has run through my head a few times before. I should remind you that not all transitioning TS's feel that way. There are some who weren't born wrong, but they still NEED to change genders for one reason or another.
Lastly, you mention my history of fetish. My SO and I have asked ourselves what we think that was. What we seem to agree on is that I was attempting to cover the CD and my TS thoughts I was having and the hole in my life I was creating. I was using fetishes that are on the outskirts of CD. Forced Fem and AB/DL.

We could definitely be wrong about that. It could be vice versa, but like I said in the beginning of this post, we will see how it all goes in the future.
did you share the Forced Fem and AB/DL past with your therapist? That might be something they would want to know...and please you don't have to answer that here if don't want to, I know that is personal.

I, personally, don't see "pink fog" the way you do. I told my husband and I know of other women who have told their husband they could care less if they transition or not, I and they would still be with them. It didn't happen (transitions) because they got over the pink fog and are very happy to be CD's.

Anyway, good luck to both you and Mrs. G in all this.

[Sandra]

My definition of pink fog is a jaded one.

Pink Fog: What a SO uses to push a TSQ toward CD instead of transition. The SO doesn't budge on their calling it pink fog until the TSQ finally can't stand it anymore and either transitions (turning TS) or is beaten and broken and just fools themselves into being happy wearing women's clothes.



Very jaded and completely wrong. Where the heck did you get that from, it's a load of rubbish. You obviously haven't read anything on here about the pink fog. This is when a trans person let the cding take over. They become so involved that nothing else matters, they won't listen to commensense, buying items just because they want them, doesn't matter if they'll never be worn, spending money that is for other things eg household bills etc, and trying to convince themselves they are TS when really they are not.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Sierra just be smart and careful..doubts are doubts... the transsexuals i know always tend to discourage transition, discourage disclosure and emphasize keeping your head on straight...
people doubting you is just information for you to process,

no reason to attack the comments...you are wrong about pink fog in my opinion...its just a phrase that describes something that people experience..it has nothing to do with the SO!!!! your comments assume there is a SO

unmarried folks go through this just as much!!! the simple fact that you are making the pink fog comment about SO's is very telling...

i posted in another thread...i had ALOT of advice and lots comments made to MY FACE....i didn't like all the comments..but looking back these were so important to me..

By your posts, i know you would benefit from more information..

I think you are conflicted because you are hanging out here, taking it all in...responding thoughtfully to comments critical of your situation, but you are also pretty aggresively resisting advice and resisting the INFORMATION from people that are sharing experience..

I'm not saying you have to do what "we" say.. but i am saying that we have good info and disputing the info itself is deflecting the real life implications of what you are going through..

[BRANDYJ]

Sierra, I'm sorry you felt I was calling you names with my comment about being a train wreck. It was not intended that way. If I did not care about you and your wife, I would not post at all. But I do feel you are only listening to what you want to hear. You discount those of us that feel you are not a TS. I think you so badly want to be a TS that you zero in on only advice and comments that support that goal. I still believe you to be a CD that is in pea soup thick PINK FOG. It's just that you don't want out of it.

I read your journal post in the private section for GM's. Needless to say I can't comment on it here since it is only to be read by those in the GM private section. All I can say is that after reading it, I have more empathy for you and much clearer picture of what's going on with you. I am glad you are seeing a professional councilor as I feel it can help you. But please be sure to discuss all that was in your journal. The answer lies in there for her to help you see things a lot clearer.


I think you are conflicted because you are hanging out here, taking it all in...responding thoughtfully to comments critical of your situation, but you are also pretty aggresively resisting advice and resisting the INFORMATION from people that are sharing experience..
Again, I wish you and Mrs. G all the best when the fog lifts off your's and her life.

I agree with Kaitlyn Michele completely in her response. But especially the above quote. I hope you give this some very deep thought and don't brush it off or cover your ears closed to the truth.

[ReineD]

Pink Fog: What a SO uses to push a TSQ toward CD instead of transition. The SO doesn't budge on their calling it pink fog until the TSQ finally can't stand it anymore and either transitions (turning TS) or is beaten and broken and just fools themselves into being happy wearing women's clothes.

It's maddening when the people in our lives learn about our issues. This is why interventions work so well. Other people can see right through denial and rationalizations.

If the fact that your wife (and others here) are seeing pink fog more than transsexuality in your behavior and this is what is pushing you towards believing that you're TS, this is an indication of just plain being stubborn and impulsive.



Right now, I do enjoy being much more feminine all the time. I am not a fan at all of being male, but I am when need be. I wear men's clothing almost all the time, and to be honest, I feel more at home in fem gear.

This is quite normal for TGs who have repressed themselves. You need to stop telling yourself this "must" mean that you are TS. You won't know if you're TS until you've lived with your femme expression for awhile, at least for long enough to have gotten past the initial excitement of expressing yourself.



You said that TG people transition because they are in the wrong body, I think you mean TS, and that thought has run through my head a few times before. I should remind you that not all transitioning TS's feel that way. There are some who weren't born wrong, but they still NEED to change genders for one reason or another.

You're talking about people who are TS "by choice". My SO knows a lot of TSs, CDs, and people who don't quite know where they fit, and yes, there are M2Fs who likely could live either as men or women, but never be completely happy as either one (meaning a male who cannot express femininity or a fully transitioned woman), since they are not unquestioningly women who were born in the wrong bodies. There are people who do "choose" to be TS. Their marriages fall apart (sometimes due to uber pink fogs) and they opt to go the full route to transition. Unfortunately, these people don't reach the high level of satisfaction with having become women like the TSs who do know unquestioningly they are women, and in the meantime they have lost a great deal of what was important to them. This is pretty bleak. Human nature being what it is, there is no choice but to put one's best foot forward and live with past decisions, but IMO it pays to not rush into things.

My SO considers herself dualgender. She knows she is not a woman who is stuck in a male body. She also knows that she is not a conventional male, although when she was going through what you're going through, she did question whether or not she was TS and needed HRT. She even questioned her sexuality and luckily she was single at the time so she was able to experiment freely and thus was able to cut through the fantasy and arrive at her own truth (that men don't do it for her).

Until we live in a world that fully accepts transitioners, is it really worth it to place yourself in a situation where it will be difficult for you to find work, find partners, mix freely and unabashedly in the cisworld without being petrified that someone might discover your past, if you are not truly and unequivocally a woman who was born in the wrong body?

But if you are TS, then obviously it is all worth it as anyone in this section of the forum will tell you.

(Caveat: I'm not saying that transition dooms people to lives with no work and no partners. I'm saying that judging by what I've read here and also observation with people that I've met, it is challenging for many TSs to find partners and work if they haven't retained these things from their male lives).

[Babeba]

You said that TG people transition because they are in the wrong body, I think you mean TS, and that thought has run through my head a few times before. I should remind you that not all transitioning TS's feel that way. There are some who weren't born wrong, but they still NEED to change genders for one reason or another.
Lastly, you mention my history of fetish. My SO and I have asked ourselves what we think that was. What we seem to agree on is that I was attempting to cover the CD and my TS thoughts I was having and the hole in my life I was creating. I was using fetishes that are on the outskirts of CD. Forced Fem and AB/DL.

We could definitely be wrong about that. It could be vice versa, but like I said in the beginning of this post, we will see how it all goes in the future.


I really hate to say this, but I definitely know that although many CDers seem to enjoy forced fem fantasies, there are plenty of people out there who enjoy it for the power play and humiliation instead of the clothes, without being anywhere in the TG spectrum. As for AB/DL, when you had posted it on here it has come up infrequently enough that I had to google it to see what the hell you were talking about. The only person whom I have ever talked to who was an infantilist definitely did not have a shred of crossdressing with it, and it hasn't come up on here - I see it as being a similar sort of level to some people in terms of a lifestyle. Some people have more than one fetish, and there isn't necessarily anything that has to link them. The fact that you've been able to give them up, by the way, makes me think they were kinks rather than compulsions (fetishes) and not a core, integral part of who you are.


Sierra, do you remember in the first thread you posted, I had asked if you could try explaining how you identified and felt about things without the acronyms? I had been referring to the fetish stuff, and you opened up a lot more in explaining things in your own words. I think it might be helpful to try doing something similar with how you conceptualize your gender. Just like you don't have to conceptualize yourself with using others' labels for fetishes, you don't have to fit into a little TS or CD or TG box as you try to figure out exactly who Sierra is. You don't have to have a checklist to try and act into, you just have to be yourself and find out who that person is before you have anyone (including yourself!) diagnose you. I think that would be healthier for you. I also think that it's valid for an SO to say they are worried that their spouse is being so overwhelmed by stimulus of one kind or another that it is clouding their usual judgement, and they shouldn't make any major, lifechanging decisions until that stimulus is not affecting them anymore. Friends don't let friends drink and drive, and therapists don't let clients transition in a "pink fog." If you two left out that phrase, and used more words to describe your worries and feelings, would it make that conversation clearer?

I did have one other question, though - a little ways back in this thread, you told Kaitlyn Michele that you don't have a NEED to dress in feminine clothing, just a strong desire (which is totally fine). You prefer them over man clothes, and that you nearly always feel like a woman rather than a man no matter what you are wearing, so I am interpreting that although the clothing makes you feel good and you prefer it, it's not the be-all and end-all to allowing you to feel female. You don't seem to absolutely loathe and despise your male organs. So what, exactly, is the thing that is "wrong?" What needs fixing? What feels incongruent in your life? What do you think you would get out of a transition? What do you think you would leave behind? What is it about feeling like a woman on the inside is not quite enough, and why?

[sierra_g]

Thank you to everyone. When I wrote my jaded opinion of pink fog, I was partially joking, but partially not. I was terrified that I would get bad angry responses and there would be a barrel of tar, a sack of feathers, and a pole waiting for me today.
Thank you all for being so nice as to not.

My wife talked to our Christian friends about it yesterday and they are going to do some praying and some Bible study and they want to talk to me about it and they want to be involved. They say they love me, but don't really know where to go, so first they need to find a plan and then talk. My wife is very afraid I am going to be non-receptive, but I am seriously going to try to be. 40-50 years of misery is well worth an eternity of happiness and if they tell me something that makes me think that this is against God, I will be forced to try and stop everything. Anyway, I'll leave the theology for that forum.

Reine, that is one of the many factors of this that I have thought about and continue to think about. The list really is huge!

Brandy, I'll get more into different things as well. You will be a lucky one that reads EVERYthing good and bad with me. The fun of non-private journals. I have told my therapist about everything that is in there, and a few other things that aren't in there yet. I am sure we will get into all sorts of other stuff as well.

Hopefully, all will be figured out soon enough.

Thanks everyone!

[ReineD]

Sierra, and everyone who is about to post on the religious aspect that Sierra has just mentioned, I'd like to bring forward a word of caution:

Nowhere in Sierra's post do I see any indication that Sierra's wife & friends want Sierra "cured" through religious means, of her need to express a cross-gender identity.

I know that many of us skim posts real fast and certain key words jump out, but it is Sierra who is mentioning misery and eternities of happiness, not her wife.

So, please let's not begin a debate in this thread about all those "awful" religious people who believe they can cure transpeople and homosexuals.

Actually, Sierra, if I were a praying person I would also pray for you to just learn to take it one itty-bitty step at a time rather than try to bite off the entire enchilada. :p

[Bree-asaurus]

Sierra, and everyone who is about to post on the religious aspect that Sierra has just mentioned, I'd like to bring forward a word of caution:

Nowhere in Sierra's post do I see any indication that Sierra's wife & friends want Sierra "cured" through religious means, of her need to express a cross-gender identity.

I know that many of us skim posts real fast and certain key words jump out, but it is Sierra who is mentioning misery and eternities of happiness, not her wife.

So, please let's not begin a debate in this thread about all those "awful" religious people who believe they can cure transpeople and homosexuals.

Actually, Sierra, if I were a praying person I would also pray for you to just learn to take it one itty-bitty step at a time rather than try to bite off the entire enchilada. :p

I have my opinion on religion, and if you really want to know it, just PM me lol... Like Reine, I don't want this to turn into a flame war.

I think that wherever you find your strength to move on, is a strength worth having. If you find the strength in yourself, a god or gods, some other higher power, a book, a person, a set of rules, then that is awesome.

I hope that the strength you find brings happiness to you and your wife, regardless of what you choose to do. And if you end up trying to leave all this TG stuff behind, and you come back to it later, there's nothing wrong with that. The choices you make today do not need to dictate the rest of your life. Make the choice today that makes you happy today. Tomorrow is another day to live and learn.

Life is about balance. If you can find your balance, you can find your happiness.

[Kathryn Martin]

Supposedly, for most it is "Transition or Die". for many others, it is "Transition or self loathe". That cannot go on for very long. It isn't healthy. Something MUST be done.
People go for 20, 30, sometimes 60 years before they start the transition process because self discovery hadn't kicked in, but I don't hear about people who discover who they are, and then for personal reasons decide to hold off until timing is better.

Sierra you are making many bold pronouncements in this thread. If you review your own post and comments given throughout this thread it might help to understand the concern expressed by many of the commentators. You start out that the time to act is now by coming out to everyone and now seek help in praying and religious instruction which will most likely not lead down the road you initially described.

Transitioning certainly indicates that the person is a person of transsexual history. Being transsexual does not always mean that the person transitions. Being transsexual is never a choice, what you do with it is.

There are countless examples of persons who are gender variant being caught up in the moment (also sometimes called the pink fog) and feeling the need to transition and regretting it afterwards. It is for this reason, that the gate keeping functions to access hormones and surgery are in place, and Real Life Experience is mandatory to ensure that the person can successfully function in her/his target gender. Until they begin RLE most transsexuals are very discreet about their condition and as Stephenie S put "keep their mouths shut". Once the cat is out of the bag it cannot be put back. Much of what people have said to you here is meant with these things in mind and meant to be supportive.

[Bree-asaurus]

In additon to what Kathryn just said...

Transition takes TIME. Trust me. In the beginning, I just could not do things fast enough. As you get into it, you realize that there are a lot of things that you simply have to wait for. If you do want to transition, take it easy, take it slow. Do simple or reversible changes at first. As time goes on, you'll know if transition is right for you. And even then, if you want to continue to transition, guess what you still have to do? WAIT! Not because you choose to, but because some things just take time. As you continue along your path to transition you will learn patience... and learning to have patience will help you greatly.

[MandyGG]

Sierra,

I am not going to go into detail over anything previously written, because I have not had any free time to sit and read. I am logged in quickly to tell you something that has been on my mind since my last post. So, in reality, this is nothing but a continuation to that....

I have strong feelings for quite a few of the members here. I feel a personal connection with them, and hope for their success and happiness. You are no exception to that. I really just want you to know that in no way am I against your decisions or thoughts. I respect you and I respect your feelings. I also very much respect your wife. She is a wonderful girl, and it has been such a pleasure getting to know her.

I couldn't leave my last post with any thought that you might feel that I am against you, because it is far from that. I hope you understand that, and are not mad at me for saying what I did.

I will log in a bit later and read everything else to catch myself up!

[Badtranny]

In additon to what Kathryn just said....

...and in addition to what Bree just said, If you decide to transition tomorrow, you have a long wait to look forward to before ANYTHING of note happens. Unless you decide to come out and/or go full time than it's a long grueling process with no and I mean no immediate gratification. I'm telling you this out of my own rude awakening. I've been transitioning since January 2010 and I still feel like a babe in the woods compared to people like Kaitlyn. I learn or experience something new every single day and that's after TWO YEARS of actual transition. Therapy, HRT, surgeries, coming out, hair removal, etc etc, and I've been doing it in plain view of everyone I know.

Two years of transition and I've been full time now for two weeks. Two measly weeks. This is a long trip lady, better grab a snack and hit the restroom.

[Bree-asaurus]

...and in addition to what Bree just said, If you decide to transition tomorrow, you have a long wait to look forward to before ANYTHING of note happens. Unless you decide to come out and/or go full time than it's a long grueling process with no and I mean no immediate gratification. I'm telling you this out of my own rude awakening. I've been transitioning since January 2010 and I still feel like a babe in the woods compared to people like Kaitlyn. I learn or experience something new every single day and that's after TWO YEARS of actual transition. Therapy, HRT, surgeries, coming out, hair removal, etc etc, and I've been doing it in plain view of everyone I know.

Two years of transition and I've been full time now for two weeks. Two measly weeks. This is a long trip lady, better grab a snack and hit the restroom.

It's funny... I've been transitioning for two years as well... but still look to you as someone with far more knowledge than I.

And what else is funny... I've actually been 100% full time, no excuses for two weeks as well lol!!!

[Badtranny]

It's funny... I've been transitioning for two years as well... but still look to you as someone with far more knowledge than I.

And what else is funny... I've actually been 100% full time, no excuses for two weeks as well lol!!!

HA! Don't look to me for knowledge sister, I'm literally making this up as I go. There is a good crop of us out there, you, me, Inna, April, who have been at it awhile and are just now beginning to blossom, with a whole new crop right behind us.

I have been openly transitioning at work, and openly living as a female outside of work for nearly a year but I had no idea about the emotional impact of going FULL time. Every new advancement surprises me like it was unexpected, because as much as I expected it, I could never have expected what was going to happen. People at work say "hey give us time to get used to it, we've never dealt with anything like this before" ...and I say "NEITHER HAVE I!!!"

Loooooooooong stretches of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror. That's transition for ya, but living an honest life is worth every bittersweet moment.

[Bree-asaurus]

HA! Don't look to me for knowledge sister, I'm literally making this up as I go.

I'll drink to that... lol

[sierra_g]

Hello everyone.

I am having trouble keeping up with all the replies I need to make on here. Therefore, this is how I am going to do it...

Bree: 2 Years?!? Holy Moly!!! Woah! I am floored! Is that actually you in your profile pic? You look completely like a GG, I was guessing you were on year 5 or 6.
If transition does one day happen, I don't expect it to be any less than 10 years total process.

Melissa: 2 Years?!? Wow! I am again floored! I was guessing you were on year 5 as well. You look great! I am glad you are healed from your barrage of surgeries. Glad you are doing so well.

Mandy: As I said before, I am eternally grateful for all your advice. If there was anyone on this forum that was closest to our situation, it is yours and Reine's. You and your hubby have more experience and time under your belt, so you know what we are going through. I love your advice and cherish it. I don't always follow it, but I do try to.

Kathryn: yes you are correct. It is a long hard road full of bumps and bruises and etc. It is stressful to everyone around me, and a harsh emotional journey. It isn't something I think anyone at all should jump head first into without gathering as much information on it as possible and without seeking inside of themselves. I appreciate your council, and everyone else's on this website. You all are very helpful in teaching me things that I couldn't learn anywhere else. Personal experience is my favorite tool on here. The same way, it is what keeps dragging me in further. I only hear transitioning stories on this website of people who are not just happy, but ecstatic to be transitioning. I have to take a breather every once in a while and read a horror story or two to bring me back to Earth. One of my favorite horror stories is about a guy that went to a psychologist and his psychologist basically talked him into SRS. After full transition, she wasn't happy. She ended up getting as much of a reversal as possible and had SRS again to make him male again. YIKES!

Reine: Thank you for the disclaimer. You are right, everyone is praying for me to do right by God, no matter what that is. I am 33 years old. If they are going to try to send me to camp to get fixed, I may have something to say about that. One thing that has always been made completely clear is that I am and have been an adult. My decisions effect my life on Earth and my personal salvation. Besides suggestions, nobody can force me into anything, although many would love to try (hi, honey!).
I've been spewing a lot of "Jesus loves me for me because I love him for him and nothing else matters, no matter what.", and I wholeheartedly believe that. I also believe that TS is not a sin, but instead a trial that some have to face. To deny yourself is to lie to yourself, which causes doubt and that causes unfaithfulness to Christ. Would I be going against Christ to not accept this as part of my life? I have to stop the theology outside of that forum. Sorry.

Babeba: Believe me, AB is very similar to sissy/forced fem, which has strong ties into CD. PM me for the correlation. I don't know if it is allowed on here.
I feel that they were filling a void in my life caused by repeatedly attempting to push TS out of my life. I had a craving for something, but I didn't know quite what. Traumatic experiences in my life pushed toward the AB lifestyle, so we tried it and it didn't work out. That switched to sissy/forced fem, but like my wife asked, how can I be forced into anything I want more than the dom wants? Finally, I came out to her as a CD, but had no idea where the roots lied, just that I knew I had done it off and on for my life, and that I'd been doing it semi-steadily for the past few years. That is when I started the other thread.

I think this is what you want. Let me know...
I feel that my brain is about 60% female. I have a lot of natural female mannerisms, and my wife says I definitely have female thoughts sometimes. I used to be quite emotional when I was younger, but I had to man up and stop crying, so I started laughing instead, and now I don't do anything. I haven't cried in so long (except for when I drank tequila a couple weeks ago - Bad night). I had a hatred toward my penis when I was depressed in my mid twenties, before I met my wife. This has popped back up a bit more recently, but it was brought on by myself doing something stupid. I can't say that I have a strong use for it, but there it is, and I do enjoy being intimate with my wife. The feeling of being born wrong has come and gone in my life. I love me, I hate my split mind, and I hate my desire to be a woman, but again, there it is. I don't know, it just feels right. I have started accepting myself, I just have to finish finding exactly who or what I am before I can finish. With or without a penis, I am still me. If I take hormones and t-blockers, it would mostly be for the brain chemistry. The rest would be great too, but are not as important.
I know I will never be magically transformed into some 20 something drop dead gorgeous supermodel, and I know I would never make a pretty girl, but if I could be the person I see in the mirror, then maybe I wouldn't be so upset and on edge all the time. She has things a bit more under control it seems, and she looks happier.
I admit, I do enjoy women's clothes more than men's, and I would totally love to be 24/7, but I can't and won't. My wife and kids love and need me sometimes. Right now, it is rare to present female, but I do hope that changes. I have been pushing myself into the 'CD box' as much as I can to try to stay with my wife. I cannot say it is working yet, but I do keep trying. I want her to be happy.
We've talked quite a bit and I've been forced to answer some tough questions I asked myself that question the very essence of who I am. I pray that I one day find the answers to all of them. We will see.

Thanks everyone!

[sierra_g]

I hate double posting, but I wanted to update and didn't want to make a new thread for it, sorry.

Yesterday, my wife's sister and her husband met us at the park. We played and flew kites. I knew my wife wanted to tell her sister, so she asked if it would be ok. I said yes, and they took off together for about an hour. Shortly after they got back, we packed up and headed home. They drove, so they drove to the house, and we walked back. On our walk, we talked about how she is totally accepting and is a bit shocked. Apparently, we are better at hiding it than we thought. These are the people that have seen me in light makeup because they've just shown up unannounced.
So, we got back to the house, and I talked to her sister privately about talking to her husband. This is the one I've mentioned before can be quite violent, especially toward gays and etc. She said that he isn't really that bad and he would be accepting, so we all decided I would tell him. I had a Smirnoff Apple wine cooler and played a few rounds of Mario Kart with him, just as one of the guys. It was good times. We were about to play cards when I told him I wanted to talk to him about my wife and I. He has been the one I talk to when my wife and I fight, so this wasn't anything out of the ordinary. We went upstairs. I chose everything very carefully.
I sat in my computer chair because it is in the corner, so he wouldn't feel cornered, and it is the only chair, so he would have to stand and therefore be above me, feeling that he was in charge of the situation. I said a few sentences that would boost all 3, ego superego and id. This was all working.
I then was brief and to the point. I didn't use the word "sexual", I told him I have a gender identity disorder and he asked what that means. I said that I am more female in my head than male. The bottom end of my spectrum is crossdressing, the top is a full surgical change. I am somewhere inbetween, but I don't know where. He apparently had another friend who was GID. He said that as long as I'm not gay, he's cool with whatever. I told him I am not, and then he asked me a very important question. Can he tease me about it. Now many people would be hurt by the ruthless teasing he is known for, and who knows I may be too. He teases about everything slightly abnormal, so if he all of a sudden didn't tease anymore, I would be worried. When we got downstairs, we talked to my wife and her sister and they were happy I wasn't dead. We played games and talked freely about what this means and how it effects them, etc.

All in all, it went really well. I am so happy we have such accepting people in our lives. I know that many of you are not for telling people, but my wife needed her to know and it would've been hell keeping it from one while talking to the other.

[Rianna Humble]

Good news. I'm glad that you and your wife have friends to whom you can talk.

I read the advice given to you earlier differently to the way you have paraphrased it. The message I got from the concerned posts above was to be careful who you tell, how much you tell and what you tell. For example, if you announce to your employer that you are TS and intend transitioning, then discover that you do not need to transition, you will have created a very difficult situation not only for yourself but also for your employer. Until you are very certain about what all of this means for your life, I would definitely suggest being careful about what you say and who to.

In the end, though, it is up to you and your wife how many people you feel it is right to talk to.

[sierra_g]

Good news. I'm glad that you and your wife have friends to whom you can talk.

I read the advice given to you earlier differently to the way you have paraphrased it. The message I got from the concerned posts above was to be careful who you tell, how much you tell and what you tell. For example, if you announce to your employer that you are TS and intend transitioning, then discover that you do not need to transition, you will have created a very difficult situation not only for yourself but also for your employer. Until you are very certain about what all of this means for your life, I would definitely suggest being careful about what you say and who to.

In the end, though, it is up to you and your wife how many people you feel it is right to talk to.

Yes, most of the warnings that were advising me not to tell were in PM's by a few on here.

We are done telling people for now though.

Thanks!

[arbon]

I told him I have a gender identity disorder and he asked what that means. I said that I am more female in my head than male. The bottom end of my spectrum is crossdressing, the top is a full surgical change. I am somewhere inbetween, but I don't know where. He apparently had another friend who was GID. He said that as long as I'm not gay, he's cool with whatever. .

You just told him you more of a woman in a mans body then you are a man and he is cool with it as long as your not gay? People are so weird.

[AudreyTN]

Today was my first real appt with my therapist.
She made a diagnosis of TG. I am not sure how official that diagnosis is, or if it is just to please the insurance. Either way, she told me that she feels that although I am not textbook TS, I am definitely TS. I am not banking on that at all for now. I may be, I think it is still too early. We will see. This wasn't my last appt, it was my first.

Anyway, before I went, I decided to come out to 2 of my closest friends. I am slowly building up to bigger and bigger people in my life. These friends I am telling can in no way effect me except for either walking away or congratulating me.

The one I actually told today took it rather well. I had hoped he would. He asked basic questions, told me about his many adventures, it was great. We ended the conversation as if we had been talking about nothing. Great.

The one that was a little busy today will take it well. I know him. Very liberal, always votes for human rights, etc.

So, finally my question.
My wife wants someone to talk to. The one she wants to talk to most is my step-mom. I don't know that I am ready to come out to my father at this moment in time. I want to wait till I am 100% for sure about everything and my process has started. I don't want them to find out 10 years down the road, but I am just not ready. We came out to her mom, and while her mom says she is ok and still loves me, I fear she is angry.

My wife doesn't understand. If I am on a path that isn't going away, then why don't I tell everyone now?

I am working my way up to family. The thought of coming out to them right now scares the bejeezus out of me.

I have compromised for now, I told her I would come out to one of her friends that we both know. They are strong good Christians that are very open and accepting usually. I hope that they are very understanding and give good advice.

So, thoughts?

Thank you everyone. ♥

Well, I went about things differently than most people. I was in depression counseling long before my gender identity issues really began to surface and long before I began to actually deal with them, so when I was told I needed to see a gender identity therapist, I was already at an emotionally stable point. Over the course of 4 1/2 years of counseling (2 years on and off, and 2 1/2 years on hardcore) my psychologist knew I had gender identity issues and that I was struggling with them, and pointed out to me that I was transgender, even though I hadn't accepted it and dealt with it. It was then suggested I go get a second opinion, and the 2nd psychologist agreed with opinion of the first one based on the notes in my file, and talking with me for 3 hours in depth about everything. But I've known for a long time, I was just too scared to deal with it. Most people are depressed when they start gid therapy, and are still in a state of confusion about who or what they are, what they want. Not me. There is no confusion for me anymore. I know I am a transgender woman, I know I hate my male body and penis, and I absolutely MUST CHANGE IT or risk being miserable the rest of my life.

You should invite your wife to your therapy sessions with you. Step-Mom's are bad idea to talk to. She needs to talk to a professional. Not some hanky panky person who thinks they know everything just because they read it on the internet. Someone logical, educated in psychology, rational and unbiased who can talk to her on a professional level and give her some understanding.

Aside from that, the best thing is to talk with your wife, go through this together, have her go with you, and both of you start reading more and figuring all of this out. Scrap coming out to the family, or friends. Your therapist should be able to inform you of what you need to be focusing on, and that's dealing with what YOU feel in regards to your life, the things that have happened, your desires to be female, to change your gender, to identify as a woman. All that needs to be answered BEFORE anything else. You have to be honest with yourself too, otherwise you're just walking in circles. Honesty means, if you really really just have this insane desire to be a woman, you can't see yourself living life any other way, the things you need to start exploring and answering are 1.) Do I really want to live full time as a woman? 2.) Do I want to do makeup every morning, get dressed, shave my legs and body, do my hair 3.) Do I want to learn to walk, talk, act, stand, and conduct myself as a female? 4.) Am I prepared to go through transition where I no longer live as a male, everyone no longer knows me or see's me as a man, but instead as a woman? Am I ready to make that committment? 5.) Am I absolutely positively without a doubt in my mind ready for this? 6.) Will I be able to tell my parents, colleagues, co-workers, classmates, friends, family, acquaintances, customers, clients, church members, etc?

If the answer to any of those is no, you are not ready. Not to say you won't ever be, but it's a process. For each and every one of us, it's completely different. Some progress faster, some progress slower. Mine started off slow, but once I overcame the struggle of the coming out part and telling everyone, my process has gone much faster, but I'm comfortable with that, and I'm ok with it, because I've made peace with my decision and peace with myself.

I wouldn't suggest coming out to anyone else. Next therapy session, sit down, talk with your therapist, and make a plan of subjects of what you want to talk about, need to talk about, want and need to resolve and work through. Once that's been accomplished, then you can figure out the next step. Transition? or I'm just a cd that likes to do this for fun, and there's no need to tell anyone else, it is what it is, and I'm content with that?

patience. Rome was not built in a single day.

[sierra_g]

Honesty means, if you really really just have this insane desire to be a woman, you can't see yourself living life any other way, the things you need to start exploring and answering are 1.) Do I really want to live full time as a woman? 2.) Do I want to do makeup every morning, get dressed, shave my legs and body, do my hair 3.) Do I want to learn to walk, talk, act, stand, and conduct myself as a female? 4.) Am I prepared to go through transition where I no longer live as a male, everyone no longer knows me or see's me as a man, but instead as a woman? Am I ready to make that committment? 5.) Am I absolutely positively without a doubt in my mind ready for this? 6.) Will I be able to tell my parents, colleagues, co-workers, classmates, friends, family, acquaintances, customers, clients, church members, etc?

If the answer to any of those is no, you are not ready.


You forgot a big one. Am I willing to give up my marriage and possibly my close relationship with my children? That is where the NO lies. Everything else is an easy YES.

Your post is a bit late as far as the other stuff goes, I've already done all my coming out for now. With summer vacation, the lady we live with has a grand daughter (teenager) who comes over and stays for a few days sporadically. On one hand, I like hanging out with her, she is very fun. On the other, I will have to hide myself from a teenage girl (not easy!) WEEEE!!! I doubt she could or would keep the secret so I will have to keep it on the dl quite a bit this summer.