Some Thoughts I Had About Society

[tiffanyjo89]

I actually feel like if more "men" (um, people presenting as men, male clothing, no makeup, etc, no matter how feminine they actually feel) went into typically female stores and started being confident and secure in asking to try on things like bras and skirts and such, and acting like it was the most normal thing to do, that society's views on crossdressing might change.

Heck, the man could bring a girl along. Most people think that crossdressers are gay perverted fetishists who are seeking thrills from dressing up in women's clothing and getting off. Sure, for some of us we do like getting off in women's clothing, but that's only one reason for most of us. Also, most (a vast majority of crossdressers actually, I can't speak for drag queens) crossdressers aren't dressing up as women and going to bars hoping a guy will take them home and do things to them thinking they are a real woman. Most crossdressers just like having a good time as a normal person, they just like doing it wearing the clothing of and looking like the opposite sex.

Anyone else feel this way?

[JessHaust]

The more we go out into public, shopping, dining etc. and just be ourselves, drab or enfemme, the better it will be. That said, I shop both en femme and en drab, and never has society been the issue, it was always just in my head. It's gone now.

[mykhelee]

I live in an area where the thought of wearing women's sweats or T's is considered "odd". Maybe on another 20 years or so. I will agree that once you have worn satin/spandex/leather/rubber.....(deep sigh) against your freshly shaven....whatever, I do not understand how anyone could retreat to cotton.
Khelli

[NathalieX66]

The more we go out into public, shopping, dining etc. and just be ourselves, drab or enfemme, the better it will be. That said, I shop both en femme and en drab, and never has society been the issue, it was always just in my head. It's gone now.

I 100% agree.

I'm a straight dude, and my gay friends don't even get me, and yet here I am presenting myself as female whereverI go out. That's who I am.

[Delila]

I wish it were so simple. Unfortunately we are the most underrepresented group in the LGBT group because we don't fall into any of those categories. You never see anything about crossdressers just being crossdressers the only thing that ever makes news is stories of crossdressers doing perverted things. Of course nothing else would be news. We are not represented by the gay or transgendered community because we are neither of those things as a rule. I think we need better representation and possibly more public acknowledgment by the rest of the gender diverse community. It is possible that more public exposure could lead to more public acceptance but I think we should be working towards having crossdressers more included into the LGBT grouping.

[Beverley Sims]

Most of the drag queens I knew were performers, and liked to emulate both theatrical and normal women.
They were straight and although young most were not married but had hetrosexual relationships.
Yes they liked getting dressed up and one of the arts learned very early was dealing with the testosterone charged male in a group.
Usually along the lines go away and chase some real girls and let me do the same.
There could have been a book written on famous put down lines.

[Lesley_Roberta]

You said the S word (society).

Sadly our society is often only being PC for the sake of being able to claim it was. When in fact it is full of crap.

Here it is 2012, and if for instance asked to sum up the USA as a society, I'd have to state I thought it was a right wing Christian dominated homophobic country.

Because it seems they spend as much time complaining about same sex issues as they do worrying about the massive debt load.

Gee, I wonder which of the two is actually something to spend effort on?

Hmm wouldn't it be nice, if those of us in society that are not Bible thumping intolerant homophobic individuals that simply can't claim to be interested in conforming to the Christian model of male and female with no deviations whatsoever, could just go about our lives, paying just as much in taxes as everyone else and entitled to all the stuff the nation supposedly stands for?

I am fairly sure Canada is just as guilty. In Canada, it isn't the South East, for that you need to be on our Prairies.

I know I can shop for what I want, and I can wear what I want. But I also know the second I do it I can forget a lot of things. I can forget Scouts Canada for instance. Oh there is noooooooo way any parent will want me looking after their children. I am sure if I was in the work force, I'd have just closed the doors of any business run by the wrong sort of person. I am positive I'd be making some fraternities unavailable simply as they would not want me suddenly.

And it would send ripples through friends and family as people would just be inclined to be nasty to them as well if they were inclined to be nasty to me.

It is one thing for us to be ok being who we are and ok with being allowed to be who we are, quite another to suddenly suffer for being who we are though.

[Sandra1746]

It is an old slogan but it still is true, and it reflects the role of society since society is the aggregate of local people in action; for good or ill.

The USA is going through a change in "society's" attitude but it will take time. In MD we are going to have a referendum on gay marriage this year. The advertising will consist of dire warnings of the dissolution of marriage and the "end of life as we know it". All the dire warnings will certainly never come true, but some believe it will. How this all ends is anyone's guess, hopefully it produces more tolerance.

"Society" doesn't like nonconformists in any form. Can you seriously envision an admitted atheist making a successful run for US national political office? Not now, perhaps in the future. At least we in the CD community are relatively safe from legal discrimination in most areas; that is a big step forward from not so long ago. We have a long way still to go, let's hope the forward progress to tolerance continues.

Hugs,
Sandra1746

[deebra]

Tiffant I agree with all of the above posts, the key words here being society and exposure. If men starting wearing women's shorts (short, colorful and form fitting) society would get use to it and it would just become the "norm", the male/female clothing would become unisex and both genders could wear what they liked with no negative reactions. If men started wearing womens shorts and shaved their legs and had a nice tan women and society would appreciate looking at him just as men do women of course him being toned, normal weight and in shape. And why would't he wear panties or a thong under the shorts as women do to make them look and feel better? Right now I am wearing women's shorts and skimpy nylon panties and my legs are shaved, tanned and toned and in shape from working out and they look great, much, much better than hairy legs with men's shorts below the knee, UGHHHHHHHH.

[Tina B.]

I actually feel like if more "men" (um, people presenting as men, male clothing, no makeup, etc, no matter how feminine they actually feel) went into typically female stores and started being confident and secure in asking to try on things like bras and skirts and such, and acting like it was the most normal thing to do, that society's views on crossdressing might change.

Heck, the man could bring a girl along. Most people think that crossdressers are gay perverted fetishists who are seeking thrills from dressing up in women's clothing and getting off. Sure, for some of us we do like getting off in women's clothing, but that's only one reason for most of us. Also, most (a vast majority of crossdressers actually, I can't speak for drag queens) crossdressers aren't dressing up as women and going to bars hoping a guy will take them home and do things to them thinking they are a real woman. Most crossdressers just like having a good time as a normal person, they just like doing it wearing the clothing of and looking like the opposite sex.

Anyone else feel this way?

I'm not sure I understand the premise, are you talking about straight non CD types, going in and trying on bras and things?
Why would they. And as for the ones of us that would love to, I doubt we are a large enough number, even if we all came out, to really society's opinion of us all that fast.
Getting out in public, is how you do it, but even then, it still takes time to make those type changes to the way people think, none of us give up our belives that easily.
Tina B.

[Nikki A.]

I wear women's shorts and slacks, some tops and most of my shoes are androgenous femme. My legs are fairly hairless and so far no problems. Usually have on some type of jewelry (necklace, braclet & a stud in each ear)
It all depends on how comfortable you are with yourself. Am I obviously crossdressing in drab? maybe to an observant person, but most don't notice unless I go overtly fem (hose, skirt, bra etc).
Will we ever become mainstream? I doubt it, but at least I do hope that there will come a time where we will not fear being ostrasized for how we choose to dress. I do see an acceptance within the younger generation and I know of younger people who do dress openly and are more gender fluid and are accepted by their peers. So, there is change in the air.

[JessHaust]

If men starting wearing women's shorts (short, colorful and form fitting) society would get use to it and it would just become the "norm"
I live outside the city on a small ranch, yes I have cattle. The roads here are such that it is a haven or road cyclists, a group I also belong to. Twenty years ago when the bicyclists would come through wearing their spandex, colorful shorts, it caused a lot of chatter among the older farmers and ranchers. The owner of the local store would run them out if they tried to come in and buy something, or heaven forbid, use the bathroom. Now I can stop at the local store in black & yellow super tight bike shorts (bib shorts at that! Look them up if you don't know what they are) and jersey and talk to everyone there with not even an eyebrow raised.
Why? Because all it takes is a little exposure, show people that you are just a normal person like them, you just have a different opinion on fashion, and they will come around. It worked in the bicycle community, it will work in the CD/TG community.

[Frédérique]

I actually feel like if more "men" (um, people presenting as men, male clothing, no makeup, etc, no matter how feminine they actually feel) went into typically female stores and started being confident and secure in asking to try on things like bras and skirts and such, and acting like it was the most normal thing to do, that society's views on crossdressing might change.

Sounds good in theory, from a MtF crossdresser’s point of view, but are you considering how the inevitable female clerks and other female customers might feel about YOUR confidence? I have yet to meet more than a handful of GG's that are either intrigued or semi-interested in this "thing" we do. In my way of thinking, we are invading their territory, where they feel safe (in societal terms, of course), so, since we emulate them, how about not upsetting them? I would rather shop discretely and not bother anyone, in fact crossdressing makes me continually conscious of other people’s feelings...


Most people think that crossdressers are gay perverted fetishists who are seeking thrills from dressing up in women's clothing and getting off. Most crossdressers just like having a good time as a normal person, they just like doing it wearing the clothing of and looking like the opposite sex. Anyone else feel this way?

You’re generalizing, but you may be right. One reason why this part of the forum has so much “discussion” is that we MtF crossdressers are guilty by association – we are aligned with others who have burned a sexual or comedic image into people’s minds, and it takes a lot of words to write these wrongs. Of course, most people don’t care, won’t care, or will never care to care, when it comes to individuals who willfully challenge how things are along gender lines. My own “take” on challenging is rather innocuous, since I am more normal than I appear to be – I just dress to feel good, obtain pleasure under pleasurable circumstances, and pursue happiness...
:battingeyelashes:

[docrobbysherry]

I actually feel like if more "men" (um, people presenting as men, male clothing, no makeup, etc, no matter how feminine they actually feel) went into typically female stores and started being confident and secure in asking to try on things like bras and skirts and such, and acting like it was the most normal thing to do, that society's views on crossdressing might change.
----------------- Most people think that crossdressers are gay perverted fetishists who are seeking thrills from dressing up in women's clothing and getting off. Sure, for some of us we do like getting off in women's clothing, but that's only one reason for most of us.--------------------- Most crossdressers just like having a good time as a normal person, they just like doing it wearing the clothing of and looking like the opposite sex.
Anyone else feel this way?
While I like your premise, Tiff, that we shouldn't be "afraid" to buy ladies under things in person, I question some of the rest of your post!

Statistically, I'm not sure that there AREN'T more "perverted fetishists" out there than there r those that would like to have, "--- a normal good time dressed in clothes of the opposite sex". However much we would LIKE to believe it!

And, as for confidence dressed and going out? It's kind of "chicken or egg" question, isn't it? Don't u think more of us WOULD go out if vanilla society DIDN'T hate/fear/despise us so much?

[ReluctantDebutant]

Societies are groups of people who have something in common. At the dawn or time a group of families with a common culture made a clan. Clans with common customs and language made up a tribe. Tribes would trade, dominate or war with other tribes until a common culture was spread throughout a region to make a nation. Common blood makes a family, common belief makes a religion, common politics makes party, and common laws make a nation. We choose our friends based on what we have in common.

I work at a very diverse place and when I see the various different ethnicities talk to one another it is about sports, music, family, cars, and just all those common thing that bridge the gaps between groups. We had two gay engineers that would come by frequently form the office. One was outgoing talks of sports, beer, and manly things, the other was more reserved and effeminate. The 2nd one wasn’t shunned made fun of or hated. Everything was done professionally with him. But the 1st guy was always warmly welcomed, engaged in trivial conversion, he was just one of us guys on the floor. He was able to bridge the gap with having things in common.

We create our own society here by our common bond of crossdressing. But that is here in cyberspace what matter most is real space. Unfortunately I don’t think society will ever accept crossdressers. Most folks have nothing in common with the act of crossdressing, nothing relatable in their lives to what we do. We are never going to make bonds with society based on crossdressing the best thing to do is look for other bonds. Try a different road.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Here it is 2012, and if for instance asked to sum up the USA as a society, I'd have to state I thought it was a right wing Christian dominated homophobic country.

Because it seems they spend as much time complaining about same sex issues as they do worrying about the massive debt load.
Gee, I wonder which of the two is actually something to spend effort on?


Objectively speaking, the USA is not becoming more religious, the whole western world is being less religious and we are just becoming less religious more slowly. Related to our debt, if the USA was truly that devout, our elected officials (fed state and local) would heed the warnings about the dangers of usury in the Bible and stop spending us all of us into slavery (and people would stop electing them for that matter.)

As for men buying female items, does the original poster mean cisgender males who are not crossdressers, or crossdressers should be more open about buying things for themselves?

[Momarie]

The more we go out into public, shopping, dining etc. and just be ourselves, drab or enfemme, the better it will be. That said, I shop both en femme and en drab, and never has society been the issue, it was always just in my head. It's gone now.

Beautifully and simply said Jess...

Frederique...
"Sounds good in theory, from a MtF crossdresser’s point of view, but are you considering how the inevitable female clerks and other female customers might feel about YOUR confidence? I have yet to meet more than a handful of GG's that are either intrigued or semi-interested in this "thing" we do."

Perhaps the attraction we have stems from more than that "thing" you do...and more about who you really are.

[bobbimo]

For me, I love to feel pretty. Some days (very few), I wake up and the unshaven face with leftover mascara smudges just turns me off. So I wash the girl off and just do boy things enhomme, until the evening and then Bobbi is ready to come out.
I dont think I could ever try to present myself as Bobbi, with out being all gurl, or as much as I can be.
Its not just about wearing the clothes its enjoying what femme has to offer, the inner feelings and the beautiful woman you have created.
The next time you want to go shopping in a dress and no other femme touches. think about those horrid creatures in the "people of Walmart" emails.