It doesn't have to be about the clothes

[Lesley_Roberta]

Having all sorts of trouble communicating.

Hoping this thread doesn't get axed, it's really getting old I swear, I have even thought about just hijacking a thread and simply making a cover comment to justify the post and then putting my comment (which I'd rather be making in my own thread) inside another thread that looked safe from the delete button.

Anyway, the point I am trying to make here, and skeptical I have it in the right forum, but who knows, it's for cross dressing and my comment concerns clothes, even it if is basically about not requiring clothes to begin with or rather not requiring female clothes....

Is it enough that you feel female, and act female (even if you are the only one which seems to notice)?

I am sitting here watching Sailor Moon (its anime for my cross dressing friends that might have not actually experienced a female childhood), and I feel female in the doing. I am wearing a common tshirt (male) and a common pair of shorts (male) both of which are in beat up condition, the sort only worn in the house because they look like crap basically. The clothes just don't really mean anything in some cases.
Yeah I could be wearing a female tshirt and female shorts, and if I had gone the route of doing all of what I am currently learning about 2 years ago, maybe they WOULD be beat up female shorts and a battered female tshirt. But I wouldn't be really interested in giving them any real thought. I don't routinely think of clothes that intently.

Currently it is the show that is making me feel female.
Just watched an episode that was super hard on the tear ducts. They had one of the more memorable songs of the series in this one.

I tried to discuss this specific line of thought already and thank you very much moderator, deleting my thread really impressed me. Oh thank you so much.

I sure hope some day (soon if possible) I reach a point I can enjoy female clothing. I am amost positive the phrase dressing up won't be realistic to a point.
If I have my way, I won't in time own any male clothing. I will have clothes that might like in between probably. I won't be dressing up, I will be 'living in them'.

But I am not 100% sure the clothes will make me feel half as female, as sitting here crying over some seen in an anime show. I know I might have some awkward moments wearing female clothes outside, but damn it, I am NOT going to hide in my home just to wear them. Nope if I buy female clothing, if the wife turns out to be ok with female clothing, I simply won't be going part way.

The clothes are just a minor bit player in the equation. I want my friends to KNOW whatever I am wearing, will have been bought for a female. I want them to be unable to escape that knowledge. But I want my femaleness to be projected from what I like to do, not what I am wearing while doing it.

I don't wish to be seen as a cross dresser watching Sailor Moon, I want to be seen as a female watching Sailor Moon, who just happens to be in a male body, but as she is a girl inside, well of course she's wearing girls clothing. I want to be seen as being girlie while watching my anime.

I want to hear the comment 'can't we watch something other than your damn girlie shows, how about something for the guys here eh?'. And want to be able to respond with 'oh alright, it you must insist on our watching one of your silly look at my tits shows, I will allow it, just so long as you keep your hormones under control eh'.

I want to be able to go outside with friends, and for my friends to realize, shopping with Lesley means being dragged into places most guys don't want to go. 'Just a few minutes guys, I need a new muffin pan from Canadian Tire, you can go fondle the power tools for 5 minutes'.

I don't think I will ever be able to pull off being a 'cross dresser'. I just don't think I have the mind set. I don't think of my wearing girls clothes as cross dressing. And all of my femaleness is more about my actions than my appearances.

If I don't get the pleasure of female clothing, and if I am stuck in male clothing for one reason or another, I still want to project as female. Just not sure how to do that. I personally think if I can't put on a decent wig and look adequately female from the neck up if the face is given a bit of work, then I probably won't feel much inspired to go out of pocket for a bunch of clothes that won't fool anyone, and really, the clothes won't be as important to me as being allowed to project my inner self as female.

Labels labels labels, how I am getting annoyed with labels. Maybe I should just stop talking about Leslie and when everyone has forgotten about him, they will not be snitty about me using the term TG. From what I have been told, I am TG, not TS because I still have male plumbing. There's no TG forum, so I am out of luck there, and it seems everyone thinks CD is a catch all forum.

Have I succeeded in boring everyone to tears yet?
Seriously wondering if I should copy paste my post in preparation for it being deleted just so I don't need to wonder what I lost.

Remember people, you can feel perfectly female without the aid of female attire.
If you don't project yourself as female, your outfit will just be female clothes on a man. And if my mother is any indication, real females are really observant. Oh those sure are not female legs she told me the other day. They might look nice shaved but they are just shaved male legs.

[Kate Simmons]

It's not about the clothes really Lesley. It's about our feelings and how we relate to things and life in general. All the rest is basically "eye candy" and "window dressing".:battingeyelashes::)

[pacificblue]

Well said Kate. It's not really about the clothes, (for me at least) it's about the feelings they evoke. I'm comfortable in both male and female clothing and I wear what pleases me at the time. Sure there's something special in dressing right to the nines and heading out into the world but in the end, it's all just fabric. The cover on your book, if you will. I do feel more feminine when I wear female clothing and when I want to feel more feminine dressing up is a perfect way to do it. Just as when I want to feel more masculine, I'll wear my drab.

However, it should be noted that I always feel feminine in some ways and masculine in others. Doesn't matter how I am dressed, how I'm behaving or whether I have my wig on. I am who I am and no amount of clothing will ever change that.

So it's not really about the clothes, they are simply tools to help me achieve whatever I'm feeling at the moment.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Kate your avatars sure are distracting, I was startled by how different your other view is :) I wonder if any here actually know how good a job you have done?

[Kate Simmons]

Well Lesley, as I said in another thread, it's really the "moxie" and the "schmaltz" that sells the whole presentation. The "smoke and mirrors" and makeup helps. I pretty much utilized that when I danced at the club Friday night.Had a great time I really become one with the feminine energies when I dance.;):)

[Andromeda]

Its never just about the clothes. Dressing is just a lot of the fun.

[Beverley Sims]

For me there is a lot of theatre in it, dressing up and adopting another identity.
Yes it does have to be female as there is no challenge otherwise.

[Jenniferathome]

Lesley, crossdressing, by definition, is very much about the clothes, but not only clothes. Transgenderism, is about the feeling of being that gender which your body does not match. Perhaps you are confusing the two?

[Roberta Marie]

For me, the clothes are more of a reflection of what I'm feeling inside, but not always. They rarely trigger a feeling of femininity. There have been times when I'm doing work that is traditionally very masculine, working very hard, sweaty and dirty, wearing jeans, t-shirt, and work boots, and suddenly feel very feminine. There have been other times when I'm dressed to the nines, hose, heels, skirt, makeup, and doing something traditionally very feminine like sitting in a theatre watching a very girly production, and suddenly feel very masculine. I never make a conscious effort to act feminine, although I rarely try to hide it any more. But, my wife says that there are times, especially when I'm dressed, that she does notice a difference in the way that I act.

For me, gender is quite fluid, and I don't have control over it. But, when my exterior matches my interior, I'm in balance, and that feels right.

[April_Ligeia]

Lesley, crossdressing, by definition, is very much about the clothes, but not only clothes. Transgenderism, is about the feeling of being that gender which your body does not match. Perhaps you are confusing the two?


I was thinking this same thing. For me, it is often just about clothes and makeup. I am an androgynous man, I do not really feel like a woman. It sounds like you may lean more toward the transexual end of the spectrum than the "just crossdresser" end.

[Dawn cd]

Yes, Lesley, CDing is usually deeper than just clothes. Many outsiders define crossdressing as fetish-behavior, and for some it is. The attention of fetishists is given entirely to the fetish-object (ie, the clothing). But I believe the vast majority of CDs find dressing to be a way of expressing femininity, which transcends clothing. We may never transition or take hormones, yet many crossdressers are true TGs.

[Stephanie47]

If you have read my postings to threads I truly believe a person's personna is composed of male and female feelings and traits. If the sex of a child, who will become an adult, is determined sometime after conception, what triggers it? Are there remnants in the DNA thread of a sexual identity of the other sex? Do men try to suppress the residual non genital femininity that is part of their being? I believe society intentionally or unintentionally tries to suppress the traits and feelings of the non genital personna. That is what causes the pain inflicted on cross dressers, gays and lesbians. Society tries to mold everyone into that genital being.

I feel my inner personna is composed of two "beings" who coexist. I am a genital male who has a twin sister, Stephanie. I let her out to play and give her twin brother some relief from the male imposed world. When Stephanie has had enough exposure to the world, she lets her twin reappear. I believe the degree to which we allow our non genital personna appear can vary from almost no exposure to almost 100%. I am happy with the time allotted for Stephanie.

Maybe you are truly 100% female personna trapped in that male body. The remedy may be a full transition to female, i.e., surgical. Or maybe it is just short of that?

Stephanie feels totally at easy and happy en femme with a pretty dress and heels and all those undergarments. Her twin also feels totally at ease and happy with his totally beat up jeans and tee shirts and no shoes. His wife doesn't like them out in public, but, it's like Linus and his blanket.

[Barbara Ella]

Lesley, I think you see that many agree that while it may have started with clothes, it really is more than the clothes.

In reading and re reading your post, I get the feeling that while you say you want to feel this way, you are not there yet. TS does not mean loss of male plumbing, that is the endgame of a long process that starts with the recognition of just who you really are.

TG is most certainly an integral part of a CD forum. So if you feel you are out of luck, you are just self imposing limitations that do not exist. That is worse than imposing labels. Labels are irrelevant.

This is a nice thoughtful thread, but it really makes me see that you have a tremendous amount of soul searching to do to determine exactly where you are. You do not sound sure. I like what you want to be, and I know you will get there.

Barbara

[natacsha]

Hey Lesley. I feel the same way. I like to look at is as cross sexing rather than cross dressing. I just inherently feel feminine. I put the clothes on cause they feel like they match how im feeling. I never fully understood it though. In the beginning, i thought the clothes made me feel fem. Then i realized the fem was there from the beginning, i was only dressing up to feel More fem. xoxoxo

[Lesley_Roberta]

Wife wants the husband to remain anatomically male. I guess that closes the TS door. But I see myself as more TG.

I define myself by how I think more than how I look. I'd be in heaven if my friends called me Lesley instead of Leslie, referred to me with she and her and acted like I really was female, without needing to beat them up with a female outfit. Sure I'd like to see if I really DO look like my sister (quite a challenge though as she is so goddamned fit and she is incredibly attractive). But the only time I reeeeeeeally want to go to town on appearance is Anime North (once a year thing in May). I want to dress up as Hatsune Miku, and be just one all weekend long series of not accidental panty flashes in her trademark outfit that is killer cute. Or Sailor Moon or any of soooo many really fun looking school girl outfits. I want to torment my buddies who likely will have jacked off looking at images of the girl I will be dressed as :) I want to bask in all of their discomfort. Suck it up boys, oh and no I don't put out, I'm married remember hehehehehehe

[Lesley_Roberta]

Hey Lesley. I feel the same way. I like to look at is as cross sexing rather than cross dressing. I just inherently feel feminine. I put the clothes on cause they feel like they match how im feeling. I never fully understood it though. In the beginning, i thought the clothes made me feel fem. Then i realized the fem was there from the beginning, i was only dressing up to feel More fem. xoxoxo

Very nicely stated. I like how you put it.

[Kate Simmons]

Yeah, but some of us can be a natural born "tease" when it comes to that Hon.:battingeyelashes::)

[Kaz]

There are some here and elsewhere who just get a kick out of wearing women's clothes... I suspect the label is 'fetish' but I could be wrong as I don't do labels either. I know where you are coming from and am sending a friend request just in case this thread goes the same way as your others... happy to share!

[Lesley_Roberta]

Everyone has weaknesses

Ok so you put a cute little girl (at my age that means a girl in her 30s I suppose) in a Japanese school girl outfit and she bends over intentionally demonstrating a wardrobe malfunction and I suspect Leslie would show up and tell me to piss off for an hour :)

But it isn't really the school girl, it's just her skirt. Skirts suggest you just might see something. If you just look a bit lower.

I think everyone has heard of something too, in an article of clothing, and you just can't figure out the attraction. I don't get fixations on high heels. But I am ex infantry, high heels equals sore feet, nope sorry my feet ain't being beat up in high heels.

I do like nylons and stockings if worn correctly. They are supposed to not quite make it to the skirt, so that the skirt seems to be just not quite long enough to make it to the stockings. It's psychological, it draws attention to that area of the body, the spot you WANT eyes to be staring. But I don't need them to get off, and I don't need them for any tactile reason. I'd only wear stockings in the winter for warmth. Or they might be good for sore legs too. Appearance would probably be on the list, but not #1.

Hair means a lot to me as well. Just can't get excited for short hair styles. I prefer medium length or longer. Wear as you want, just so long as it is long. Anything that permits a ribbon in the process is a bonus, or a bit of lace as an accent.

[Kaz]

I was at a Post Grad student Ball recently and the guys and the girls were all dressed up to their '9s'... (never understood that one, but what the heck)... the really most provocatively dressed young ladies were just enjoying being dressed up and able to do it - to them it felt good - nothing more, nothing less... to any regular guy.... WOW! I mean big time WOW! To them... a chance to look and feel great... Go back home, sleep... great night out... no problem...

I would love to wear some of the dresses they had on...

I bet they would feel great... just so 'free'... being who you feel and not having to worry about what people think...? Except that they do.. so we complement them and we should, because they have gone out of their way to show their femininity...

Probably way off topic by now! So... what am I saying? It is about how we feel... the clothes can take us to that place, but as the OP said... it isn't just about the clothes...

It is about the motivation behind wanting to do it... IMHO