What is a person that doesn't CD, isn't about to TS, but wishes to be female?

[Lesley_Roberta]

I am seeking here of course, looking for answers, and wondering what are my options?, what is really required? and how far does a person need to go?

Yes I want to dress correctly, but is it weird to not go that route?

I am not likely going to see transition in my life, so I will be stuck in a male body (yippee, insert lack of enthusiasm now).

That leaves me in what I consider a crappy spot. I don't get to LOOK female, I don't get to be anatomically female, I just get to FEEL female. Bubble baths feel nice, and smelling pretty helps..... but no one is going to treat me like anything other than a guy.

As I see it, that's just being doomed to getting ignored.

Every time I post, I hear this voice in my head asking, 'so why am I here again?'.
You're not a CDer, you ain't a transexual waiting on an operation, so what is you expect anyone to do about ya?

I am told I am TG, yet if I don't wear the clothes, I feel like some how I am just someone doing their best to make their life complicated for no gain. My friends are never going to use feminine gender language in speaking to me if I don't appear to be any different (other than my behaviour which I don't think is very significantly different from Leslie's). I mean I get, 'you listen to girl music' from some of my friends, and they think I am 'confused' for playing female characters in my role games.

[Kate Simmons]

Only you can determine what will make you truly happy Lesley. That is the biggest challenge most of us face or have faced. Am I gonna mope around or go for the gusto? I decided that for myself, the answer was the latter.:)

[NathalieX66]

All I can say is find a route in life that makes you happy, play with it for a while and see how it goes.
If it is not enough, and you are not happy, then make adjustments.

[Launa]

Take that path thats going to make you feel satisfied and see what happens next.

[Sara Jessica]

Unfulfilled.

On two fronts. This is what you describe, a lack of fulfillment.

There are many of us out there who all things being equal would transition in a heartbeat, yet out of respect for the lives we have carved out, we choose not to go down that road. It's been called a "middle path" and while it can be a very difficult place to be, there are so many opportunities for fulfillment.

You see, I am on this path. I know a bit of what I'm talking about.

On the guy side, yeah, there is criticism that I am holding on to "male privilege" but in reality, I am holding on to many things that are dear to my heart. Things which I do not wish to implode with transition if I am able to be strong enough to stave off such fate.

On the girl side, I have found a wonderful existence full of friends and experiences that exists in a form of counter-balance with the guy side. Is this ideal? No. Is it 100% fulfillment? Not a chance. But as much as a pain as it is to maintain life on such a middle path, the rewards are there to be had. Different rewards but rewards nonetheless.

So with respect to your situation, if you eschew transition, then best to embrace your guy side enough to find fulfillment. On the female side, if bubble baths are enough to grant you some semblance of fulfillment, then terrific. Bath soap is much less expensive than a wardrobe. But if you want more, my advice is to seek out what will bring you fulfillment by finding balance and separation if necessary. It is possible, yet it's far from easy.



ps - A dear friend of mine who is no longer with us once conveyed a thought to me while in the throes of a transition which she was questioning that she wished she had what I had. This told me that when embarking upon transition, she thought it was her only option. A sad mistake because I believe that if she were able to explore the middle path, there is no doubt in my mind that she would be here today.

[Karren H]

personally I think its strange. like wanting to be an airline pilot. yet never having flow or left the ground.....

[RADER]

Lesley;
No one is making you dress as a male or a female, It is your choicest as to what you decide,
how you dress in the morning.
If you like bubble baths, and smell nice, go for it. That alone does not make you fem, or
male. It just makes you, you.
If you do not want to wear female clothing, thats your prerogative, and if you do, there is
no harm in doing so.
Just because you want certain things in life, does not put you in a transversal state.
My self, I do not want to change sex at this stage in life; However, I do like to wear nice
things around the house. So what If I do, thee is no law that says that because I wear a
dress at home, I must go and see a surgeon.
Like you with the bubble bath; That is a great Idea. I would do it but we have such hard water,
the bubbles just do not come out.
So if you do not want to "LABEL" your self, nobody is making you. Just stay at being who you are,
and enjoy your life.
I hope you are understanding where I am coming from.
BTW, Your ideas, and comments are always welcome here. I/We value your opinion.
Rader

[Lesley_Roberta]

Thanks guys and a special thanks to you Kate for being there in a lot of my threads :) I feel like you are keeping an eye on me. Feels a bit reassuring.

[Davena Doll]

Lesley you can be treeted like a girl, you just have to get with the right guy and thank you for the vids.

[Babeba]

Lesley you can be treeted like a girl, you just have to get with the right guy and thank you for the vids.

Sorry if this is a little off topic, but what do guys have to do with making Lesley feel feminine?

[Davena Doll]

Well.... "she said no one is going to treat me like anything other than a guy." I disagree.

[LisaMallon]

Oh Karren don't be too hard.

I wanted to be an astronaut as a kid, after watching Fireball XL5. Then a submariner after watching Stingray (hmmm I'm starting see a pattern here, Gerry Anderson has a lot to answer for).
Obviously didn't quite manage the astronaut bit, but did a lot of scuba diving over the years.

Lesley, just chill out a bit. Put away the soul searching for a while (suspend belief if you will) and enjoy yourself.
Forget the questions, just do what comes and feels right for the moment and enjoy yourself and see how things go.

If you enjoy bubble baths, have lots. Like to dress a bit, do it. If this becomes a part time thing for you and you are happy with it, enjoy that.

More than enough time to worry about any further stuff.


I spent decades in various states of angst, crappy way to spend time.

[jillleanne]

Oh Karren don't be too hard.

I wanted to be an astronaut as a kid, after watching Fireball XL5. Then a submariner after watching Stingray (hmmm I'm starting see a pattern here, Gerry Anderson has a lot to answer for).
Obviously didn't quite manage the astronaut bit, but did a lot of scuba diving over the years.

Lesley, just chill out a bit. Put away the soul searching for a while (suspend belief if you will) and enjoy yourself.
Forget the questions, just do what comes and feels right for the moment and enjoy yourself and see how things go.

If you enjoy bubble baths, have lots. Like to dress a bit, do it. If this becomes a part time thing for you and you are happy with it, enjoy that.

More than enough time to worry about any further stuff.


I spent decades in various states of angst, crappy way to spend time.

Fireball XL5 and SUPERCAR!!!!!!

Lesley, no one here or anywhere else has an answer for who you want to be. You have one option and one option only. Be yourself, do what you want to do, express yourself how you want to express yourself, and if the world that surrounds you doesn't like who you are, too bad for it. IT needs to deal with the reality of who you are, not you, you already know who you are. Stop spending so much time worrying about what others around feel/think. What happens in your life is directly dependant on how you decide to present yourself, set your goals, and strive to achieve them. Don't wait for someone else to plan out your life; only you can do that because in the end, the decisions you make will dictate who you become anyway. What others think is irrelevant. BTW, so you know, anyone that expresses more than one gender is transgender, period. No big deal at best.

[Lesley_Roberta]

You might be right, I might be just trying 'too hard'.

[Laura912]

Two quotes: Yogi Berra "when you come to a fork in the road, take it." Do not know the other source, but "Above all else to thine own self be true."

[Sophie_C]

So, you're a non-transitioning TS girl? As said above, know you're not the only one. But, also know that if you fully hide it to the world, you'll never have any balance. Trust me, that's my life. Now I know all women have different interests and likes, making a woman be just as much of a woman if she's a jock marine with a buzz cut as the most prissy girl out there, but there is a pattern.

I've always (as far as I can remember) gotten along better with women (especially as roommates), liked the majority of things they did, essentially thought the way they did, "got" things immediately, all in a non-sexual way... but we have to hide it, since even the dumbest person out there gets that something odd is going on, on a subconscious level.

Of course, it's pretty obvious, I have to not talk about how I find Lena Dunham's stuff on HBO some of the best things out there recently, or how I just love the clothes a female friend of mine is wearing, or how I think Carly Rae Jepsen's music is fun and cute, or how I like Nicki Minaj or Taylor Shift; how I wanted to see 'Hunger Games' a few weeks back, how I *genuinely* loved SATC, you get the point.

But, even if you do THAT, it's not enough. I can't keep my damn body language looking masculine all the time, and people do notice that, making even the "weird" flag I fly not enough to excuse it, and people take it as I'm simply gay and in denial.

It's a mess...

In the end, hiding a huge (if not the majority) of your life from the world keeps you really imbalanced, socially withdrawn (since you can't just fill in that part of you with something else, it's just not there if it's behind the curtain) and probably not mentally healthy. And, as society gets more and more accepting (or at least not caring) of those who do transition, the odds go higher and higher I'll eventually do it, myself (I never thought I'd say it).

I really wish I didn't have this circumstance to deal with. Good luck...

[Ressie]

I am seeking here of course, looking for answers, and wondering what are my options?, what is really required? and how far does a person need to go?

Yes I want to dress correctly, but is it weird to not go that route?

I am not likely going to see transition in my life, so I will be stuck in a male body (yippee, insert lack of enthusiasm now).

That leaves me in what I consider a crappy spot. I don't get to LOOK female, I don't get to be anatomically female, I just get to FEEL female. Bubble baths feel nice, and smelling pretty helps..... but no one is going to treat me like anything other than a guy.

As I see it, that's just being doomed to getting ignored.

Every time I post, I hear this voice in my head asking, 'so why am I here again?'.
You're not a CDer, you ain't a transexual waiting on an operation, so what is you expect anyone to do about ya?

I am told I am TG, yet if I don't wear the clothes, I feel like some how I am just someone doing their best to make their life complicated for no gain. My friends are never going to use feminine gender language in speaking to me if I don't appear to be any different (other than my behaviour which I don't think is very significantly different from Leslie's). I mean I get, 'you listen to girl music' from some of my friends, and they think I am 'confused' for playing female characters in my role games.

There are many shades of crossdressing and we all have the dilemma of how to handle what goes on in our minds and bodies. I only dress in private, some underdress, but these don't sound like options for you. You appear to be a TS that doesn't like having a male body, but not wanting to transition, you don't know what to do. Does the small town you live in have something to do with your frustration?

[Babeba]

Well.... "she said no one is going to treat me like anything other than a guy." I disagree.

No, I mean, what do you mean by "get with the right guy?" What does "the right guy" have to do with it, and what do you mean by "get with"?

Lesley, is the not getting referred to by female pronouns the ONLY thing that is bothering you with this, or is there more to it? I can see that being an annoying thing, but not a lifewrecker if everything else is totally good - but I'm not in your situation so I don't know.

What do you see as being treated like a girl rather than like a guy?

[Lesley_Roberta]

Going to try a multi reponse here.

@Sophie_C yeah part of my problem is I don't want to be written off as homosexual. No guys, I am NOT looking at your ass or your junk.

@Dee3 no the town is not the problem to my knowledge. It IS a small town though, but I don't currently consider it a barrier.

@Babeba the referring to me as he him his is really just them making it plain they are either not listening, not caring, not seeing all of the above or combinations of. It's not fundementally vital, but it is irritating. My sister for instance would object to me using he him his in referring to her 'hey stupid, I'm not a guy'. But she doesn't need to care, at the end of the day she's obviously not a he him his.

"What do you see as being treated like a girl rather than like a guy?"

Well one friend has said to me while visiting with another friend 'ok let me have your man card' in response to my actions being in direct violation of the guy rules. He rough houses with me, I mean head locks will NOT impress most girls, nor any other forms of physical rough housing common between most guys. References to my music being chic music... well duh. Confusion when I want to play a female character in my role games. It just screams out loudly they are not seeing Lesley, they are seeing Leslie acting weird.

I am so tempted to go to a role game in a skirt even if nothing more than just that article to slap them up side the head with it. Wake up boys, Leslie isn't even here right now.
Not all of my friends are on Facebook, so some of them have not had access to my rants I suppose.

I have been wondering if I should email the lot of them, tell them I am what I am, and if I don't show up in a skirt any time soon, it is because I am dealing with weight loss prerequisites I have demanded of myself to be met before the skirt goes on. And not the reason I am not in a skirt today.

[Kate Simmons]

Lesley, What is in our head is what actually makes us male or female (or a combination), what our apparent plumbing is is what makes us a man or woman physically. Sometimes the two don't match but that anomaly is more often then not. Curiously I think of others as who they are as people, not what they are physically. If I think of you as Lesley, that is who you are. How you present is totally your choice but I take others on their word as far as self identification.

To get past the nonsense heaped upon us by society we sometimes have to re-invent ourselves and re-shape our own paradigm into something that is really viable and works for us.We don't ask anyone else for permission to do this, we just do it. A life of pleasing others is nice maybe but it can be frustrating if we, ourselves, are not satisfied with what we see and how we feel. It takes the role playing to a whole other level and is actually self co-creation. Not for the faint of heart, believe me but doable if we have the focus.:)

[natacsha]

Hi Lesley! Seems like you are more wrapped up on the terminology and what others think rather than yourself. If you could close your eyes and just feel, no words, labels, etc. etc. what would you feel? act accordingly. Seems shallow but sometimes the simplest explanation tends to be the right one. Achems Razor, i think?? Good luck sweetheart!! XOXOXO

[KellyJameson]

Hi Lesley

Could you describe a little bit about how it "Feels" to be female. This is a personal experience that I think is different for each person including GG's but I have found that as I went deeper into understanding my own personal experience of this "feeling" I than also was able to understand my motives/reasons for what I wanted because I was able to understand there source.

Think about the difference between acting female and being female as your guide.

[Eryn]

personally I think its strange. like wanting to be an airline pilot. yet never having flow or left the ground.....

Not so strange if you lived in a world in which half of the people were airline pilots who continuously showed you how wonderful flight could be, and one in which 80% of the media coverage presented idealized airline pilots and their activities.

The analogy I use of being in our "spectrum" is that of being allergic to chocolate, yet having half of the people around you continuously eating chocolate, holding it out for everyone to see, comparing their various types of chocolate, and telling you of how wonderfully it tastes without realizing that you cannot partake. Oh, and you can't tell anyone about your allergy or desire because that would be considered perverse.

How we would react to our chocolate allergy varies. some, like Lesley, get by with smelling the aroma and yearning for more. Others get more intimate with our chocolate but avoid permanent changes. Still others undergo drastic medical procedures to allow themselves to partake freely.

None of these paths are smooth. Such is the life we live.

[Lesley_Roberta]

"Hi Lesley

Could you describe a little bit about how it "Feels" to be female."

Hmm ok I suppose the wargame thread question might not be the hardest thing I have attempted hehe.

We all group up with ideals and some of them horribly cliched to death. I think an ideal female was my mom. Sacrificed a career option to be a mom. Hates swearing, prefers an orderly well maintained home. Dinner was regular, and it was always well cooked. We were well clothed and kept in line.
Will rip your head off if you even think of hurting her babies. But even a single glass of wine can reveal that mom was not dead in bed :)

I have noticed that agreesive behaviour bothers me more lately, and I hate my foul language even more now. I've always been someone that needs order in their life. I like a lot of the things that mom likes. I have a lot of dad's skills and talents, but I have mom's values. Dad gave me the skills and talents genetically, but mom actually MADE me what I am otherwise.

I likely didn't succeed in answering the question I suppose.

[Voulez-Vous]

I am seeking here of course, looking for answers, and wondering what are my options?, what is really required? and how far does a person need to go?
Yes I want to dress correctly, but is it weird to not go that route?
I am not likely going to see transition in my life, so I will be stuck in a male body (yippee, insert lack of enthusiasm now).
That leaves me in what I consider a crappy spot. I don't get to LOOK female, I don't get to be anatomically female, I just get to FEEL female. Bubble baths feel nice, and smelling pretty helps..... but no one is going to treat me like anything other than a guy.
As I see it, that's just being doomed to getting ignored.
Every time I post, I hear this voice in my head asking, 'so why am I here again?'.
You're not a CDer, you ain't a transexual waiting on an operation, so what is you expect anyone to do about ya?
I am told I am TG, yet if I don't wear the clothes, I feel like some how I am just someone doing their best to make their life complicated for no gain. My friends are never going to use feminine gender language in speaking to me if I don't appear to be any different (other than my behaviour which I don't think is very significantly different from Leslie's). I mean I get, 'you listen to girl music' from some of my friends, and they think I am 'confused' for playing female characters in my role games.

Could your post be any more confusing?
No, I kinda doubt that it could be.
Someone "told you" that you're TG and you don't even CD? Who is this rocket scientist?
You're talking about role playing games. Maybe you're just a confused young person?


Hi Lesley

Could you describe a little bit about how it "Feels" to be female.
It's totally impossible for anyone who's NOT female to accurately describe how it "Feels" to be female.

[Frédérique]

What is a person that doesn't CD, isn't about to TS, but wishes to be female? I am seeking here of course, looking for answers, and wondering what are my options?, what is really required? and how far does a person need to go? Yes I want to dress correctly, but is it weird to not go that route?

When I read your OP I immediately thought of the movie Ma Vie en Rose, where a young boy dresses up simply because he believes he is a girl – in the context of the film, it’s less about crossdressing and more about an expression that cannot easily be made, especially in the heterosexual world that surrounds the boy. Upon seeing the movie, many gay gentlemen had this reaction: “You have described my childhood...” I got an insight into expression from this unsolicited response, and, based on the obvious, I would say there are many individuals who wish to be female, yet don’t CD or start along the path to SRS. In my mind, there is no way to “dress correctly,” in fact society makes things very difficult for us adventurous types – in your case nothing is required, so anything goes, and you are free to EXPRESS yourself anyway you choose...


I am not likely going to see transition in my life, so I will be stuck in a male body (yippee, insert lack of enthusiasm now). That leaves me in what I consider a crappy spot. I don't get to LOOK female, I don't get to be anatomically female, I just get to FEEL female. Bubble baths feel nice, and smelling pretty helps..... but no one is going to treat me like anything other than a guy.

Speaking as a MtF crossdresser, looking a little bit like a female helps, but the feelings I harbor are deep down inside and will be there regardless of what I wear, or what appearance I show to the world. Everybody treats me as a guy, and that helps me to preserve what is most precious, namely my blessed apart-ness – I can sit here NOT dressed and still feel very feminine, in fact the femme clothes represent just the outer layer of who I truly am. I think you’re lucky to feel female and be enthusiastic about it, although the world expects you to not dwell betwixt and between, as it were. But, it’s nobody’s business, and you need to be true to your “self” at all times – any dressing you may or may not do is merely icing on the already beautiful cake, if you ask me...
:battingeyelashes:

[ReineD]

Unfulfilled.

On two fronts. This is what you describe, a lack of fulfillment.

There are many of us out there who all things being equal would transition in a heartbeat, yet out of respect for the lives we have carved out, we choose not to go down that road. It's been called a "middle path" and while it can be a very difficult place to be, there are so many opportunities for fulfillment.

You see, I am on this path. I know a bit of what I'm talking about.

On the guy side, yeah, there is criticism that I am holding on to "male privilege" but in reality, I am holding on to many things that are dear to my heart. Things which I do not wish to implode with transition if I am able to be strong enough to stave off such fate.

On the girl side, I have found a wonderful existence full of friends and experiences that exists in a form of counter-balance with the guy side. Is this ideal? No. Is it 100% fulfillment? Not a chance. But as much as a pain as it is to maintain life on such a middle path, the rewards are there to be had. Different rewards but rewards nonetheless.

So with respect to your situation, if you eschew transition, then best to embrace your guy side enough to find fulfillment. On the female side, if bubble baths are enough to grant you some semblance of fulfillment, then terrific. Bath soap is much less expensive than a wardrobe. But if you want more, my advice is to seek out what will bring you fulfillment by finding balance and separation if necessary. It is possible, yet it's far from easy.



ps - A dear friend of mine who is no longer with us once conveyed a thought to me while in the throes of a transition which she was questioning that she wished she had what I had. This told me that when embarking upon transition, she thought it was her only option. A sad mistake because I believe that if she were able to explore the middle path, there is no doubt in my mind that she would be here today.

Wow. This is probably one of the best posts I've ever read here. Thank you, Sara Jessica. :hugs:

[docrobbysherry]

Lesley, u can call yourself, "Macaroni", and we'll call u that, too! That doesn't mean u r a pasta, tho! No one can define who u r just by using words! U must determine that inside yourself. Whether or not others will understand precisely who u r depends on how well u know yourself.

Remember, we ALL have to compromise and sacrifice things to survive! Personally, I've always wanted to fly without wings. But, not badly enuff to jump off a tall building for a few fleeting seconds ending in certain death. I've learned to live with that limitation.

Similarly, I'd like for one moment to be mistaken for a female by others, in person. However, that is probably never going to happen. Even if the folks I come in contact with r blind! I just have to live with that, too.

In all my CD/TG years, I don't believe I've ever experienced an actual fem thot or feeling! It sounds like u HAVE! I think u should revel in those experiences! And, come to terms with those experiences u may not have!

Just remember, you're NOT supposed to know/experience everything about yourself or life by the time you're 20. Otherwise, what would be the point of living to 60? Try to ENJOY THE JOURNEY!

[KellyJameson]

Hi Lesley

There is no right or wrong answer only a search for deeper understanding.

You may be walking two paths at the same time, one "feeling female" which in my opinion is innate and you were born predisposed to be this way and the other is trying to be a better human being. I see how it would be possible to think they are one and the same.

One is wanting to be less aggressive and thinking this is symbolic of female behavior.

Aggression can be for moral or immoral reasons and is independant of gender and both sexes are capable of it's moral or immoral expression, violence is universal.

The examples of behavior you have given are and can be done by either sex.

I would caution a movement toward the female as a rejection of the male based on thinking one is more or less moral than the other. I believe this could cause you considerable confusion.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Could your post be any more confusing?
No, I kinda doubt that it could be.
Someone "told you" that you're TG and you don't even CD? Who is this rocket scientist?
You're talking about role playing games. Maybe you're just a confused young person?


It's totally impossible for anyone who's NOT female to accurately describe how it "Feels" to be female.

:) Ok I am assuming you have not encountered my other comments, or some of your post would not have been posted.
Not going to be nasty, as I didn't like it when done to me.
I arrived at TG based on the many persons here helping me to understand how we use the words here. I wasn't told per se, I was given a list of options I might want to choose from that made sense to me.
By the way 35 years of training has actually made me a rocket scientist :) I don't know any celebs, but I know quite a long list of scientists I admire.
Thus the usual phrase 'well it isn't rocket science' really has no real use to me, I usually wish it were. For me, I'd need to say 'well at least it isn't sports statistics'.

Role games, you must have jumped to the conclusion I'm young. Nope, chances are I am substantially older than you. It was my demographic though that created the hobby back in the 70s.
I'm not saying I am not confused in some cases, I am not a young person (sure wish I was). You'd need to refer to my son for that. He's still young, becomes an adult this year though.

Maybe you should do some more on site reading dear before jumping in so aggressively. You will annoy us old buggers less that way :)

[Lesley_Roberta]

"It's totally impossible for anyone who's NOT female to accurately describe how it "Feels" to be female. "

Logically that makes sense, but the world is mostly an illogical place.

If I had a dollar for everything that made no sense in this world, I could take the whole forum out for dinner.

I put it to you, how do YOU know YOU are female? It's not just the plumbing eh. Correct plumbing helps in procreation, but it not one of us in a male body is really female, then there's a lot of people likely wondering why they are here.

[Voulez-Vous]

"It's totally impossible for anyone who's NOT female to accurately describe how it "Feels" to be female. "

Logically that makes sense, but the world is mostly an illogical place.

If I had a dollar for everything that made no sense in this world, I could take the whole forum out for dinner.

I put it to you, how do YOU know YOU are female? It's not just the plumbing eh. Correct plumbing helps in procreation, but it not one of us in a male body is really female, then there's a lot of people likely wondering why they are here.

Ok, I get it now. This is one of those rambling posts where you make up definitions as you go along. Fine. Whatever works for you. Have fun.

[Marleena]

Two words ---> GENDER THERAPIST.

You need to find your place, many members here seek out a gender therapist if they believe they are TS or struggling with gender issues. It sounds like you need clarification and a path to follow. How can you ask your friends to consider you as a female if you don't look like one and jump back and forth between male & female personnas and have struggles between being both? It looks like an internal struggle to me, JMO. It will confuse the heck out of people.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Ok, I get it now. This is one of those rambling posts where you make up definitions as you go along. Fine. Whatever works for you. Have fun.

Voulez-Vous I don't wish to consider you beligerent, so I am merely pointing out it is sounding as such. I've made that mistake in my time, ie posting a comment that in retrospect came out sounding wrong. i have encountered 2 other individuals on site, and they DO appear uninterested in being anything other than anti social sounding. It happens.

So I am saying, try and lighten up, or I will take offense eventually.


Two words ---> GENDER THERAPIST.

You need to find your place, many members here seek out a gender therapist if they believe they are TS or struggling with gender issues. It sounds like you need clarification and a path to follow. How can you ask your friends to consider you as a female if you don't look like one and jump back and forth between male & female personnas and have struggles between being both? It looks like an internal struggle to me, JMO. It will confuse the heck out of people.

Due to see a conventional shrink on the 6th. I am unsure what the results will be. If it comes to nothing, or appears to be of no real use to me, I likely will most assuredly continue seeking for someone such as a GENDER THERAPIST as you mention.

[Xrys]

I am trying to figure out where I stand in my own mess. I think therapy is a key step in figureing out your self and what it is you really want. Just make sure you do your research before you start sessions. Best wishes on your journey, where ever it may take you.
Xrys

[Marleena]

Due to see a conventional shrink on the 6th. I am unsure what the results will be. If it comes to nothing, or appears to be of no real use to me, I likely will most assuredly continue seeking for someone such as a GENDER THERAPIST as you mention.

Gender therapist is the only way to go. They are trained specifically in gender issues. You can ask members of this forum and they'll tell you the same thing.

[Lesley_Roberta]

I have experienced in my time, a shrink that was a complete waste of skin, a counselor that should have been flipping burgers and a guy that I thought might be better selling cars. It was NOT a good experience.

But a number of years later I ended up with the wife going to marriage counselling for another reason, and in time it just morphed into our going there to hash out problems in our mutually annoying lives. The woman mentioned early on 'most men rarely come to the second session'. Must be a failing of most men perhaps. I have no idea on that. But I continued to go and over a few years the woman managed to get a very detailed understanding of what made me and the wife tick.

So that's 3 against my liking the field of psychiatry and 1 in favour.
Recently saw a crisis counsellor for a few sessions, and I am ok with her, but she has only seen me 4 times, and really doesn't really know me much.
So I go into the meeting with the new shrink being cautious and a bit doubtful. And certainly believing I won't have much real benefit out of the first session at all.

It remains to be seen.
Not sure my small town really has anyone that specialized on hand.

[Sometimes Steffi]

Two quotes: Yogi Berra "when you come to a fork in the road, take it." Do not know the other source, but "Above all else to thine own self be true."

Polonius:
This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!


Laertes:
Most humbly do I take my leave, my lord.


Hamlet Act 1, scene 3, 78–82

[Lesley_Roberta]

The one annoying angle I have, and I have told them as well.

I am Lesley when I enter their office. If they want to speak to Leslie, well I can't really guarantee he will come.

[Marleena]

Well I really am trying to help here. Perhaps ask that one shrink for a referral to a gender therapist that may be close enough to go to. I truly believe gender issues are causing the majority of your problems. I'm not debating or questioning that you are TS. You need help to find a solution so you can move forward.


The one annoying angle I have, and I have told them as well.

I am Lesley when I enter their office. If they want to speak to Leslie, well I can't really guarantee he will come.

He will come. He is you also. He just might not talk.:)

[Voulez-Vous]

Voulez-Vous I don't wish to consider you beligerent, so I am merely pointing out it is sounding as such. I've made that mistake in my time, ie posting a comment that in retrospect came out sounding wrong. i have encountered 2 other individuals on site, and they DO appear uninterested in being anything other than anti social sounding. It happens.
So I am saying, try and lighten up, or I will take offense eventually.

You can consider me whatever you want and you can take offense if you need to lash out at me. It doesn't bother me at all. I live in the real world. I see things and people as they really are. What I see here is a seriously confused, misguided person existing in some sort of fantasy world. I strong advise you to seek therapy. This forum is no substitute for therapy.

[ReineD]

Voulez-Vous and Lesley_Roberta. You both need to carry on this conversation in a PM. The open forum is no place for this level of personal communication.

If any one of you responds to the other after this post, directly or indirectly, I'll delete your posts.

[April_Ligeia]

IMO, there is nothing wrong with anything you are describing in your original post. You are entitled to feel however you want, you are entitled to take any kind of baths that you want and you can dress however you want (male or female) afterward, you can watch any television shows you want and feel however you feel when you watch them. I am at a loss to understand the fairly aggressive tone in some of the posts in this thread, I think you can and absolutely should feel the way you feel without any second thoughts about it and you should enjoy every moment of your life to the fullest.

[busker]

Lesley, I'm not being facetious here but perhaps you are trying to solve something that you are just too close to. You mentioned "rocket scientist" in a later post so how would you solve the same problem in asking the question:
I don't wear a lab coat, I have no intention of getting a degree in astronautical engineering and I want to be addressed as a rocket scientist.

Isn't this setting up a situation that must fail? Speed, price and quality are 3 conditions that art buyers always consider. You can get quick and dirty, you can have quality and pay for it, but there is no quick, cheap and quality artwork. You want all 3, and. it can't be done--given the normal marketplace. At some point you must make a compromise and decide to dress (and pretend). be a non-op TS and dress to pass , or some combination.

[Kathy Smith]

I am seeking here of course, looking for answers, and wondering what are my options?, what is really required? and how far does a person need to go?

Yes I want to dress correctly, but is it weird to not go that route?

You want to dress en femme, yet you choose not to?

I am not likely going to see transition in my life, so I will be stuck in a male body (yippee, insert lack of enthusiasm now).

Just like a few million more of us. Welcome to the machine...

That leaves me in what I consider a crappy spot. I don't get to LOOK female, I don't get to be anatomically female, I just get to FEEL female. Bubble baths feel nice, and smelling pretty helps..... but no one is going to treat me like anything other than a guy.

The option to dress, wear breast forms, makeup etc. to help you feel feminine is there for the taking. Those things will help you look a lot more female than you probably do in Leslie mode. Unless people see you as female they aren't going to automatically address you as female - they're going to address you as a guy because they can't see inside your head.

As I see it, that's just being doomed to getting ignored.

Every time I post, I hear this voice in my head asking, 'so why am I here again?'.
You're not a CDer, you ain't a transexual waiting on an operation, so what is you expect anyone to do about ya?

I am told I am TG, yet if I don't wear the clothes, I feel like some how I am just someone doing their best to make their life complicated for no gain. My friends are never going to use feminine gender language in speaking to me if I don't appear to be any different (other than my behaviour which I don't think is very significantly different from Leslie's). I mean I get, 'you listen to girl music' from some of my friends, and they think I am 'confused' for playing female characters in my role games.


Do you have gender dysphoria - the feeling that you are really female but trapped inside a male body?

Have you tried CDing?

[kimdl93]

You seem a bit fixated on the clothes and outward presentation. Being TG is about your personal identity, not the clothing you're wearing. I'm a TG when I'm wearing male clothes and still TG when I'm dressed in women's clothes. Nor do physical attributes, such as maculine body or facial features determine whether or not your TG.

The other issue is a matter of semantics. Are you "wishing" or does part of you genuinely desire to express your femininity. From what you've written, it appears to be the latter.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Some are confused at my desire to be something I seem to not be taking the effort to be.

I am on hold in a waiting pattern basically, awaiting how my wife feels about it. Key detail in good marriages, is learning 'it isn't always about me'. I value her feelings on this.

@busker :) well if I started to list all that I know (in the realm of science history etc etc etc), I'd come across as the most preposterously arrogant person you'd ever met. So I won't be listing it :) (Leslie likely would, but that's him).