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Julie
11-13-2005, 12:04 AM
Here's an article (http://www.missfiorella.com/t-girl.htm) written by a post op TS. It's one person's account of what it's been like to transition. I wouldn't take this to be something everyone transitioning will encounter but it does have some realities that those considering transitioning might want to consider.

Also, don't take her descriptions of TV, CD & TG to be accurate. I've read many books by experts and was in therapy with one and they all agree on pretty similar descriptions of the other categories of the gender continuum but none describe them as the author of this article does. So take her descriptions only as personal opinion.

Kim E
11-13-2005, 05:51 AM
I found the article to be very interesting and in many parts to be cruelly honest. The realities of transition and the dangers of hormones, I thought were very important issues and were written quite accurately. I don't agree with all the article, but that's typical.

The whole 'descriptions' and 'labels' issue is what too many get hung up on. Personally, I don't give a royal rip which category I drop into. We are all different and we each need to customize our transition to fit our own needs as individuals. Maybe more of what's best for us and less of what's expected of us.

Kim

Carlacd
11-13-2005, 10:59 AM
I thought it was an outstanding article. It does make you think. I would hope that everyone would read it and come up with the best way for them to handle their own situation.

Jacqui
11-13-2005, 06:01 PM
Julie, this article was an eye-opener to say the least.

Getting past the label debate, it gave me much to think about in terms of my own realities/fantasies.

Thanks for sharing.

Jacqui

MandyTS
11-13-2005, 06:16 PM
Julie,

The job thing was the biggest thing for me to realize, and finally after finding out that the state could not take away my teaching credentials for transistioning I finally found full acceptance as me. I think what she talks about is the true worse case sinerio, and for some it will be different than others. Because I am intersex I think people understand a bit more, experically since it is a choice for me (in a way, although there is not really a choice). My friendships actually got better because of this and I know at least a few of them will last through transistion, although I can not expect all of them to last.

When I stated talking to people I fully expected to lose a few, and I have, but more have really steped up and made me feel like this is the right way to go. There were a few people that loosing would be devistating... keep there friendship really means the world to me... and you can not take that away...

As I said before, I hate labels, and because I don't fit the transexual label or the true hermatodite label (I am intersexed), I perfer to say I am a boy and a girl and I am choosing to make myself a girl, I have always been one anyway.

Mandy

RachelDee
11-13-2005, 07:30 PM
I dunno.. i read down about 3/4 and its very... patronising and bitter (and not written particulary well). I am confused enough at the moment, this really didnt help me sorry. Maybe it will work for other people?

Some of the information is helpful, i mean insightful but im not too fond of the way they presented it.

Chloe new transition
11-13-2005, 08:32 PM
Thanks Julie for pointing this one out to us all. :thumbsup:

I'm not going to judge it's writing style or whether there was correct use of grammar, that's not what we're here for.

Very powerful reading, even if a bit dry and bitter throughout, but wouldn't you be for a little while if that was your story? It was straight to the point, which I personally appreciate, as it's pretty much how I am with most things! :angel:

Great reading for me at the beginning of my Transitional journey.

Love,
Chloe

RachelDee
11-13-2005, 09:04 PM
Can someone do a word count? I want to see how many times she says 'hon' in that story. It started to drive me mad, like some sort of stereotypical thing you have to do to say your a girl.. ugh.

EDIT: Just did, 31 times. :/

Sorry might sound a bit cricital of it, but I read that as not only someone trying to warn the dangers of 'transitioning' when you really dont want that but also as a bit -- Its this way and thats it. Someone like myself, who is struggling with some questions and unsure of the answers, reading that didnt make me feel any more clear headed. Infact it seemed to remove hope of things getting better than give it. I know that transitions are not going to be 'fun' but it paints a pretty bleek picture right there. Thankyou for sharing it though :)

Anyhow -- I'm seeing my therapist tomorrow about my OCD, he knows about the Crossdressing since i told him recentley. I am going to see if he can put me in touch with anyone that might be able to help with gender related issues... I will have to deal with the parents/family finding out about this if and when it happens.

Stephanie Brooks
11-13-2005, 11:49 PM
Hi Robert!

The use of "hon" is reminiscent of something you might hear from a folksy diner waitress in the US. While it might sound patronizing, I believe the author was just trying to set a kind of mood. Admittedly the writing could be better, the spelling and grammar certainly, but ultimately she tells her story.

If you didn't read the entire essay, you should. At the end some things came clear to me.

If you're not already a female inside, you're not TS.
If you're not TS, don't destroy your life by transitioning.
If you are TS, transition with strength, pride, dignity, and class, and you can succeed.

In the last year or so I've considered myself to probably be a non-op transsexual. After reading this, I don't know. I know I don't want to have my "bell go off".

Is it a perfect essay wrt content? I don't think so. Is it good? Yes. I think the pitfalls she highlights are probably real. I question some of the numbers and statistics she used. The prostitution I'd never even considered, but for some it's probably real.

This is one I'm saving for future reference.

Marlena Dahlstrom
11-14-2005, 12:35 AM
The use of "hon" is reminiscent of something you might hear from a folksy diner waitress in the US. While it might sound patronizing, I believe the author was just trying to set a kind of mood.

The writer was also reportedly Texan and it's a collequial usage that's common there among some GGs.

As others have said Robert, it's worth reading through until the end. Bear in mind that not all TS understand CDs any better than the general public -- and Fiorella sounds like one of them, plus there she's obviously got some bitterness. Transitioning is obviously a life-changing event and she's not the first TS who harbored resentment over the "easy life" they imagine CDs to have. Also the whois for her site comes back to a company that does porn videos, so I don't know if that part of her article involves any personal experience.

I think Stephanie summed up her points well, which could be further simplified by saying that if you're not ready to risk all the potential downsides she talks about, you're probably not ready for SRS.

What's not often talked about is the number of TSs who end up with going through a depression post-op. They go through tremendous difficulties to transition and imagine that transition will solve all the problems with their lives -- and then they discover they're still the same person they were before and unresolved problems not related to being TS haven't gone away.

MandyTS
11-14-2005, 07:32 AM
Bear in mind that not all TS understand CDs any better than the general public -- and Fiorella sounds like one of them, plus there she's obviously got some bitterness. Transitioning is obviously a life-changing event and she's not the first TS who harbored resentment over the "easy life" they imagine CDs to have.

<snip>

If you didn't read the entire essay, you should. At the end some things came clear to me.

* If you're not already a female inside, you're not TS.
* If you're not TS, don't destroy your life by transitioning.
* If you are TS, transition with strength, pride, dignity, and class, and you can succeed.



Well said both of you,

To be honest I don't understand crossdressers at all, although I accept them as much as I accept other TS's. I can not fathem why someone would want to go out in public as a girl if they are not 90% + passable or want to wear breast forms, et al. I think even TS's have gone out in public, but IMO like meyself most TS people are not into going out and trying to pass, because that is fake, as fake as breast forms. We are women and I will be real.

The second quote is dead on. Many people are convinced for whatever reason or another that they are TS. Unfortunituly as I have said many times I do not fall under that banner. I don't really understand gender dysphoria (expect the time I was put on testosterone, then that was gender dysphoria). I am part girl and part boy, but the girl is about 95% of me and male 5%. In that case I do fit criteria 1, I am a girl inside. my brain is female, a bit tomboyish, but in my heart before I knew what intersex or TS was I always felt female. I knew on the outside I was a boy but inside a little voice always said, you are a girl. That is why I know I am making the right choice, as hard as it is defining a gender. If I could live somewhere in the middle I would.

Intersex people are really never happy with either assignment, but to live we choose the one closest to our inside feelings.

That said, it is a good article, a bit synical but many are. I am writting a book about my perspective on things, and I will try and not be that way (although I will say it like it is)...

Love,

Mandy

Kim E
11-14-2005, 10:07 AM
From the article, the most important point, I feel the author made was; SRS is not for everyone. It is not a magic pill that will allow us to pass, to blend in or find acceptance in society. SRS will give the appearance of a female from the waist down, but reality says society will still see us, as we see ourselves everyday in the mirror. SRS won't make us more attractive or make us a 'true' female. Sure, emotionally we may feel female, physically we may even appear female, but we will never truly be a 'female'.

The most successful transitions are those who can transition and have SRS at a younger age. They have a higher rate of survival because they don't carry a lifetime of emotional baggage. They don't have the failed marriages, children, decades of living and working as a male and suddenly appearing female, then struggling to find acceptance in today's world.

I'm deeply saddened, when I hear of another suicide in the TS community. It happens all too often and the suicide rate among women who have had SRS appears to be high. I'm unaware of statistics and certainly no expert. From what I've been told, deep depression, guilt and un acceptance played a role in many suicides. We may never know. Still in all, its very sad.

On the other hand, I know a woman, who transitioned at 25, had SRS in another country at 31. She has a successful career, was married (now widowed) and for almost 25 years, she says she never regretted her decision. I like happy endings and I'm sure there are many more examples out there.

Personally, I've always said proceed very slowly, because making the wrong decision can be far worse than making no decision at all.

Kim

Stlalice
11-14-2005, 10:45 AM
The author of the article may come across as bitter and quite negative about the idea of transitioning but that is probably not a bad thing. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that anyone who is even thinking of transition should be required to read it- several times- and really think about what she has to say for awhile before going forward with transition. Why? Because what the author has to say is a REALITY CHECK - everything she has to say is true, can/may/might happen and needs to be considered as you go down the road to SRS. There is a stage that most of us go thru in the early part of transition that has been called the "Pink Haze/Fog" - a stage where you believe that all your problems will be solved if you can just transition and get your SRS TODAY. It ain't so - and that is the reason for the Benjamin Standards if Care, the Real Life Test, etc. - they provide you with a chance to think long and hard about the reality of your situation and decide if Transition/SRS is the right choice for you. And hopefully prevent you from making a bad choice that can bring you way more grief than you already have to deal with.

Julie
11-14-2005, 11:03 AM
The author definitely comes across as bitter. But it seemed to me this article was written in an attempt to elicit some sort of response from the reader. Sympathy? Heroism? Martyr? Strong and powerful? One who is to be respected? I don't know. What I do feel is she is trying to get from the reader that which she didn't get from those who know her.

I know two TSs personally. One has been post op for several years, the other will have SRS in January. When I have talked to them about their journeys neither of them painted a dismal picture. The post op girl spoke in a matter of fact manner. This is what happened, this is how I handled it. No regrets, no complaints. My other friend and I have talked extensively and she tells me it's been tough but at the same time she's excited this part of her journey will be over and her new life will begin. She's never had any doubts this is the right path for her.

While the article makes some good points we need to understand we are all individuals with very different lives. If you are considering transitioning, don't let this single article discourage you.

I also don't feel that analogy of the bell going off is a common thread to all TSs. I have wanted to be female all my life. Had my parents and society accepted this as a condition that required treatment I'd have transitioned at puberty. But now I have a life I've built and just leaving that behind is not something I can easily do. I brought children into the world. I made the comittment to them to be their dad and I feel compelled to honor that. The bell may have gone off a long time ago but I was locked inside the gate and not running became the norm for me. So I don't think any one of us should be listening for that bell as the sign it's time to run. I just don't think it's that simple. We are too complex.

Get educated. Talk to professionals. Talk to other TSs. Then follow your heart.

RachelDee
11-14-2005, 02:56 PM
Good points.

I do understand that SRS, Hormones and such should not be taken lightley, andmaybe there are some people that 'transition' for a thrill or out of misguidence? I was not aware it could be fatal to take hormones though - I mean bloodclots and the like. I consider myself to be pretty healthy and would hope that wouldnt be an issue if it came down to this.

On a side note -- I started my own 'journey' today as it were. I talked to the therapist that deals with OCD and such, i asked if it would need to discuss this with someone who specilizes. To kinda work it out. But it seems he feels confident that he has the training/ect to deal with it. We spent most of this session today talking about my CDing and he wants to see me again in a week (he told me to continue doing it too).

A few things came up, one was that when i dress i feel like im truley expressing the person i want to be, I feel more liberated to express myself with style or whatever may be the case. I also feel comfortable doing it, and quickly 'forget' that im dressed at all. I also mentioned that i feel that being me daily (male) feels a little bit like a Uniform at times that i cant wait to take off when im on my own.

What this means im not sure, might mean nothing but hopefully i can figure it out. I suppose its good to read about the bad stuff as well as the good stuff (i mean the nice storys of transitions) but my therapist said that some people do choose to be the other sex, they feel they should have been born and told me it was not a 'end of the world' thing and its possible. Made me feel a little better.

JulieNY
11-14-2005, 08:20 PM
The only thing I have to add is an agreement that the rant comes off angry and arguably condescending. She doesn't seem to be going for just effect, she seems to really believe what she's saying. "Any misuse or reproduction is strictly phohibited and any violators will be fully prosecuted, I promise." The Hon thing killed me too, as well as the degredation to others transgendered. Look, life may have been hard, and until I've been there I may not understand, but this attitude isn't one I could contribute to the personal success in my own life. I may not have a right to say it, but I think she needs to lighten up.

There are gems in the article, and very articulate points. The job section shines, I think. I'm sure it also serves as a wake up call to those who simply fantasize about transition without fufilling that thought to conclusion.

If you are serious, and you understand the realities of transition, I think the article is a bit negative and pessimisitic.

Edit>> Learning to spell. Sorry.

Deborah
11-15-2005, 03:35 AM
Well i guess i have 4 1/2 years left to see if i'm really a TS or just a crossdresser who only thinks about being a female in a man's body. ;)

Vaerise
11-15-2005, 10:10 AM
I felt that she was trying to warn people who fantasizes about being woman, or for those people who arent really sure.
Maybe she felt that those who are going to transition should fully know what they are getting themselves into.
While I agree the language and tone used were rather harsh, I believe she was being brutally honest to the reader, and she really wanted the hammer to hit home.

Deidra Cowen
11-15-2005, 12:55 PM
I've read that article several times before...it always bums me out. But regardless I'm happy right now being just a lowly CD/Tgirl. Man at work...girl at night and weekends.

girlintouch
11-16-2005, 03:40 AM
it made think when i was little, my folks did same thing "like what is wrong with you", yell and called names. i like to remember the good times buit that really brought back some bad memiories.

Helana
11-17-2005, 05:50 AM
I found the article interesting and stimulating but it is not something I would recommend reading. I have major problems with it namely;

She makes numerous false statements throughout which only serves to confuse others and propagate myths.

She is trying to drive a wedge between cd/tg and ts communities by implying that TS are a separate group which harks back to the old dogma that TS and CD have different causes and that CDs do it only for sexual gratification and TS only for emotional need. This is incorrect. Her implication is that any TS who came through the the transgender spectrum from CD to TG to TS is a fake as they are just CDs wanting to fulfil a fantasy. She does not acknowledge them as a true TS.

Her bitter experience has warped her view of the transitioning experience. She tells us that only a lucky few have a good transition and everyone else has a nightmare. This is an unbalanced assessment. It is true many girls do suffer hard times but it is also true many get through without major difficulties. The more realistic and prepared you are the more likely you will get through the journey and have a happy life thereafter.

She says that one day she snaped, and the next day she was already beginning her RLT. If you decide today to climb Mount Everest does that mean you should jump into an aircraft tomorrow and immediately start marching up the mountain? It may sound harsh but she seemingly jumped headlong into her transition without thought or planning and suffered the consequences. Now she throwing her guilt and resentment back onto the CD/TG community for having the audicity of thinking we might be TS?

One last thing I was disturbed by the way she belittled the effects of hormones particularly the rewiring of the brian. For a TS, having a female wired brain that allows you to fully express you femininity is the best thing about hormones. Yes she discusses it with negative connatations and even describes it as a trap because the effects are irreversible (another one of her false statements). It is clear to me she was not ready for transitioning, and did not understand the consequences or transexulaity in general.

In effect, hers is a article about how not to transition, about doing it the wrong way and for the wrong reasons. But unable to admit this to herself she instead transfers her anger onto CDs.

If I presented to you an artcle written by a man ten times divorced who advised that women were pure evil, can never be trusted with anything and nobody should ever contemplate getting married, would anybody here think it is a worthy article to read and distribute. Not likely as it is obviously a warped point of view that has little relation to reality. I feel the same way about this article. There is little to be learned from it because of the twisted judgement of the author.