That line in our head

[JessHaust]

Ladies,
I wanted to share another of my theories into human psychology. We all grew up with this thing in our brain that told us to be feminine. Well at least I believe that we all were born with it, but that is a matter for a different debate.
So while we are growing up there is a conflict with what our brain tells us, and what our environment tells us. Outside stimulation tells us that we are boys, and boys don't do feminine things, don't wear feminine clothes. We develop a line in our heads that represents the boy side from the girl side.
We become very aware of the line, and we know what we believe crosses the line. Wearing panties, even under our clothes crosses the line. A slight hint of makeup crosses the line, shaving anything crosses the line, and on and on.
And it is that line that rules us. Things that other men can do, we can't because we know it crosses the line. Example, many men get manicures and think nothing of it. If we did it, we would see the feminine aspect of it and know that it was over the line. Body builders keep their entire bodies clean shaven, if we did it it would be way over the line.
Now here is the real problem with this. When we do anything over the line, we believe that EVERYONE see it, everyone will think to themselves "he just did something feminine". We can go outside with paints under our jeans, and we still feel like everyone is looking at us, that they 'know', even though it would be impossible for them to.
It is this awareness of of our line, that forces so many of us into hiding. It drives the fear that controls so many of our lives.
Think about it, where is your line? and think about this, does anyone else besides you really know about that line? Does anyone else really care? Do they care anywhere near as much as you think they do?

[Marcia Blue]

I really think people notice, more than they let on. The politically correct environment keeps peoples thoughts to them selfs more. I cross the line a lot more these days. Shaved arms and chest, clear nail polish alot. I worry less about what others think. I almost view the line as a dare. That being said, I am pretty much in the closet, accept to my wife, two sons, a very close couple, and my CD sisters.

[Laura912]

Jess, it is that line of human perception that helps keep plastic surgeons in business. One person may see a slight blemish or a nose that is slightly different and think the entire world knows. The entire world has much more important things on their mind. I am just as guilty of that self viewpoint, e.g. having nails that are slightly longer than the standard male issue. But my male friends don't see them or don't care. Yes, there is a line. It is right there in the sand. I know cause I put it there. :straightface:

[Tina B.]

I've never cared much about what "others think", but I do care what family members think. As it is I've got it made, so why would I want to embarrass my wife, or my son, both of them work with the public, in a very small town. One trip to town in a dress, and it would be all over town in no time, at least in the circles where I would lest want it to be known.
I may not care what people think, but my family does, so I'll stay right here in my safe little 4 bedroom closet, and just enjoy the tales of the more adventurest of the forum.
Tina B.

[Tara D. Rose]

I think I feel you. Like with me many years ago while in my second marriage. And I had not became Tara for many, many years. So one day, I went to a large depatment store and I bought my wife some panties. I thought nothing of it as I went through the sales line and paid for them. But now that I have been endulging in my feminine side now more than I ever have, when I go to buy panties now and I'm looking at them, I feel like everyone is watching me. I go to the register and the SA lifts them up and looks at them and says, "oh these are so cute and pretty". I think to myself "Yeah hold them all up for everyone to see them". It's like I know, that she knows they are for me, when many years earlier I would have thought she knew they were for my wife. And a few years ago I used to carry a pink lighter, when a guy at work asked for a light, he'd make a joke, "oh, a pink lighter", I would joke back, "yes a pink lighter, for it matches my underwear". And I knew that he thought nothing about it. But now I wouldn't carry a pink lighter in guy mode, for If I made the same joke about the lighter now, I feel somehow that they would know the truth if I said the same joke now.
Like I have seen some guys at work say to another guy that is complaining about something, they will say "Oh don't get your panties in a wad". And it's all light hearted. But if they said the same to me now, I think they could see the truth in my face in my reaction. It is different now. Many years ago I would make a lot of jokes with guys at work that most guys do in an all male work place, but now I can no longer do that.
Tara

[sarahcrossed]

i see where ur coming from tara. i was at work and one of the guys was teasing me cause i have my ears gagded and he said "did u forgot to take those out after u played dress up last night. i just kinda laughed it off. and thought to my self "little do you know."

[BRANDYJ]

I know what you are saying. We tend NOT to do things non-CD men might do; Like getting our ears pierced. Many men are doing in now, but we feel it will be a dead give away that we are CD's. Same with the shaved legs etc. We feel funny about shopping for women's clothes for ourselves, yet many non CD men shop for things for their wives or girlfriends and may think nothing about it. Most of us tend to worry about what others think...I'm one of them.

[ReineD]

Outside stimulation tells us that we are boys, and boys don't do feminine things, don't wear feminine clothes. We develop a line in our heads that represents the boy side from the girl side.
We become very aware of the line, and we know what we believe crosses the line. Wearing panties, even under our clothes crosses the line. A slight hint of makeup crosses the line, shaving anything crosses the line, and on and on.
And it is that line that rules us. Things that other men can do, we can't because we know it crosses the line.

Exactly. I've noticed there are many things that some CDers consider "girly" that men who do not crossdress do all the time.

I do think the line exists and is maintained so as to not have anyone else guess who lives inside, guess "the secret". Beyond your examples of painting nails and body building, people have different backgrounds and educations, so some CDers may believe that going to the ballet with their wives is a "girly" thing. Or watching a chick flick, baking a cake, growing flowers, taking dance lessons, doing housework, or a multitude of other activities. Whereas a guy who does not CD and who has an interest in such things will simply do them without giving it another thought.

And so when some CDers do these things while dressed, they believe they are behaving in a particularly "girly" way, and yes, if they are closeted these activities will only be engaged in while dressed and in secret for some people. Or, if they do these things in guy mode, they believe they are expressing their feminine selves maybe.

[Kate Simmons]

I don't have any such line or lines Hon just impressions. I manipulate and modify those impressions to make them work for me, I never let them rule myself or my actions.:)

[suzy1]

Good point Jess…. but I’m still not going out. [And it’s nothing to do with any line in my head] :eek:

this closet of mine is so comfy!!!!!:heehee:

Your friend Suzy:love:

[outhiking]

But why do so many of us consider it embarrassing should we be seen "out"? Is it that society still carries within it a subconscious hiearchy where men are at the top and for a woman to dress male and do masculine things she is prized and it's viewed positively (female athletes like Danna Kirkpatrick, truck drivers, mechanics, pilots) yet if a man does something femine or dresses femine is he seen as stepping down in the heirarchy? I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just very curious why many of us should feel ashamed if our secret were ever known.

[suzy1]

But why do so many of us consider it embarrassing should we be seen "out"? Is it that society still carries within it a subconscious hiearchy where men are at the top and for a woman to dress male and do masculine things she is prized and it's viewed positively (female athletes like Danna Kirkpatrick, truck drivers, mechanics, pilots) yet if a man does something femine or dresses femine is he seen as stepping down in the heirarchy? I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just very curious why many of us should feel ashamed if our secret were ever known.

Because many of us live in the real world.:straightface:

[RainyNightGirl]

Jess, thats a great topic and I have never thought about it before but you are so right. A lot of us put that line there ourselves to 'protect us' yet in many ways it has the opposite effect. I need to start demolishing mine....thank you for the thread. Natasha

[Amy R Lynn]

I think it has much more to do with how society views us. We would like to think that people would be ok with it, but a lot of them really don't understand this. They have misguided opinions that we are all gay, and that its against any Christian religion. There are so many falacies about what a CD is. A lot of people are too scared to learn more and will stick by what they believe and live ignorant about it. Personally, I think I would melt on the spot if someone spotted me and called me out.

don't get me wrong. I think society is far more tolerant today than it was ten years ago. However, that still doesn't offer us free reign to safely parade around where ever we want to.

I am not certain about the heirarchy thing. I think a majority of the scron that we recieve is from the religious zealots that think this is a sin against god. Its hypocritical because I gaurantee you that their wives probably borrow their shirts when ever they want to. Its ok for a woman to dress in mens clothes. So..... that's my stance on this. Stepping off the soap box now. NEXT! LOL

XoXo
Amy Lynn

[Alice Torn]

Very thoughtful thread! I went to my church one day, and the opening message was against crossdressing! I was sure the man speaking, who knows me in drab, must have been told something, through the grapevine. Needless to say, I was a bit uneasy. All the replies were very interesting, and a lot of truth to them. I am still weighing going out alone again to a public concert in the parrk bandshell soon. Two years ago , it went ok, alone. Blocking out those guilty self messages is the key,. Also, i have been riding my bike, in shorts , and shirtless, and that can help me with confidence, when i go out dressed after two yrs.

[Foxglove]

I'm not sure about this, Jess. I think maybe it's ignoring the larger issue.

I remember once, many years ago, a buddy of mine and I were in a café with some of our kids. I had one, he had four (or was it five?). I don't remember how many of the kids we had with us, but one of them spilled some of their drink on the table. We didn't have anything immediately to hand to wipe it up with, so we started looking around us a bit uneasily. Finally I said (with mock nervousness), "Maybe nobody'll notice!" And he laughed and said, "Maybe it'll go away!"

And that's the way it is, no matter how trivial the issue--and this one is about as trivial as they come. Whatever you do that you think somebody might frown on can make you uneasy. We do have a conscience and we do worry about, sometimes fear the judgement of others. It's a part of maturing to worry less about other people's judgement. A question of balance, I think: I try to worry about other people's judgement only when I know they're in the right.

But CDing is a much more serious issue. It is something that a lot of people seriously frown on. So it's only to be expected that we'd worry a lot more about it than a bit of a drink on a table.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[ReineD]

But why do so many of us consider it embarrassing should we be seen "out"?

There is a fear of being ostracized, and losing jobs and relationships. Various members of society disapprove of cross-gender expression for a number of reasons: male privilege, gender hierarchy, religious bias, conflation of gender identity and sexual preference, and just plain distaste or fear or bias against anything that is outside the norm.

[KellyJameson]

Some care, some don't. The only way to find out who does and who does not is to live without lines, (easier said than done).

It is interesting when you live openly exactly as you please how relationships with others change. It seems to scare some who run away but it attracts those who want and need this same freedom for themselves. I have found them to be more interesting to know because they are themselves and not like everybody else.

[Sophia Claire]

The line is a natural response to what's called a cognitive dissonance. Basically, it's two competing mindsets that cannot be rationally resolved. Being feminine and feeling that you should be masculine, for example. So the mind delineates as it goes along. Yes, that's okay. No, that's not okay. Can't do that. Okay, fine you can do that. Do other people notice when you cross the line? Probably, but I don't think they care very much. I mean, let's be honest, we all have our little tells, so it's not like the observant outsider doesn't know what's going on, but society has been trending away from confrontation for a long time now. People are just as happy letting you do whatever it is you're doing.

[outhiking]

The line is a natural response to what's called a cognitive dissonance. Basically, it's two competing mindsets that cannot be rationally resolved. Being feminine and feeling that you should be masculine, for example. So the mind delineates as it goes along. Yes, that's okay. No, that's not okay. Can't do that. Okay, fine you can do that. Do other people notice when you cross the line? Probably, but I don't think they care very much. I mean, let's be honest, we all have our little tells, so it's not like the observant outsider doesn't know what's going on, but society has been trending away from confrontation for a long time now. People are just as happy letting you do whatever it is you're doing.

I suppose this is what women faced when the moved into "male" clothing and careers. There would probably have been a greater hub-bub in 1890 with a woman in pants than today with a guy in a dress.

[docrobbysherry]

Jess, I understand the point of your thread about a line. But, I must correct your statement about "growing up with male/fem conflicts". I started dressing at age 50 and in over 15 years of dressing am still not aware of a "fem side" or thots!
I once tried coloring my nails and sure enuff. A date wondered about the scraps of red on my nails that wouldn't come off! Not doing that again!


But why do so many of us consider it embarrassing should we be seen "out"? -------------------
There's much more than simply the negative social consequences of being seen out dressed for many of us, Out. Just the thot of going out in vanilla public dressed can be VERY stressful and disturbing! If u want to know what it feels like for some of us, try going out sometime without your wig, makeup, nylons and shaping devices, and heels! Just your dress, forms, and drab shoes. See how comfortable U R out in public!

[kimdl93]

The line has been erased in a number of my life settings - around home and the neighborhood, I'm more likely to be seen en femme than in male presentation. And in non-professional settings I don't make any attempt to hide the fact that my legs and arms are shaved...of course this hardly counts because my body hair barely shows anyway. In professional settings, I confine myself to conventional male presenation.