Unhappy after transition?

[ReneeT]

I was reading a thread in another forum here and came across a statement suggesting that there are many people who are unhappy after transition. That surprised me a bit, as i am not aware of any good studies that speak to this and I ersonally dont knw and havent seen postings here by anyone who seems to harbor regret. In fact, my only familiarity with this is from a vile little book called "Paper Genders". Do you know of others who are unhappy after transition?

[josee]

Been doing alot of research lately and the only ones I have come accross were under questionable circumstances. Like the one who had a lot of money but little patience and wasn't even transsexual.

[Kirsty_D]

Figures I've seen on the web, sorry never kept the links, quoted only 2 to 3% of people were unhappy after transition and I'd assume those 2 to 3% would be as you say under questionable circumstances.

[Inna]

For many, and I do mean many trans folks, transition is held as a quick fix for style of life, misguided and illusive. they march into transition as though at the end lies a perfect fix for everything!
Disappointed when they get there, depression, resignation and failure fulfills their souls. It has been calculated that out of + - 40% suicides, more then 50% occurs after or during transition. It is a gore statistic, however, as real as dysphoria it self.
Hence, it is of utmost importance that everyone setting out on the journey of discovery, first goes through significant therapy with very confident and experienced therapist who will enlighten of the realities of transition.

As I speak of my own journey, I have attempted suicide before the transition, but determined I forged forward afterwards to seek the gender I was so deprived of, but within every effort I have put forth, there was a realistic vision of what I can achieve and that was simply become a woman, nothing less, yet nothing more.

[sandra-leigh]

The figures I have seen have been considerably higher: transition is only one step and does not solve other life issues or impart good coping strategies or salable job skills that were previously absent. None-the-less even the people who rate themselves as pretty unhappy after transition tend to say that they are happy they transitioned.

The 2-3% (or so, I don't remember the numbers now) is, as best I recall, the rate of people who regret having transitioned.

We need to be careful that we are referring to the same thing when we say "unhappy".

[Bree-asaurus]

You're surprised by the ignorant statements some people make who really know absolutely nothing about what they speak of?

Come on... we have cross dressers here that say that being gay and being transsexual is a choice!

There are morons everywhere. And just because someone is part of a minority doesn't make them any more likely to be accepting or understanding of other minorities.

[arbon]

A ftm friend mine who has been transitioned for a while now told me a couple months ago that had he been able to truly understand just how hard it was going to be to transition he would not have done it.

I know a couple transsexual women who struggle so much in their lives, and seem so unhappy...emotionally beat up. I don't think they regret doing it, but they are not happy, and I really question whether they ever will be happy in their new lives.

I think that the process of transition can take a toll on people, and a lot of the unhappiness comes from that.

[Babeba]

I have heard a few apocryphal friend-of-a-friend things on here about transwomen who were not passable after transition, and found life quite a bit more difficult than it had been before in terms of being around other people in public. Having a vagina doesn't take away a male height, skeletal structure and all the other little cues that are impossible to fix through surgery or even sometimes at all, and it really sounds like a transwoman has to be ready to deal with that when it is time for her to go out in public.

I have also heard from a member who was once close to a certain transwoman who was never satisfied with anything about her looks and kept going back for more and more surgeries and looking more and more weirdly plastic. There is another disease called Body Dysmorphic Disorder, which is separate from any gender dysmorphias; a person with body dysmorphic disorder may feel like they do not match up to what is in the mirror, and have a hard time dealing with what their body is in some way. Let's say that a person is fixated on just KNOWING that their nose is WRONG. Eventually, after years of stress, negative self confidence and the like, they get a nose job. There is a big chance they will either not get a result they like (and blame the surgeon for doing it wrong) or they will have their issues transfer over to a new body part. These are the people who have surgery after surgery and are never satisfied with what their body is. I think it is possible to have both this body issue plus a gender issue, and that may be the source of some unhappiness.

[Michelle.M]

Renee, the part of your post that catches my eye is the phrase "after transition". While there's no doubt that transition is difficult I tend to believe the post transition regret is far more rare than some would have us believe.

From time to time (and lately) I've seen some anti-trans propaganda citing the "many" cases of regret of "all" of these supposed post-transition folks, but as it always is with these transphobic rants there never seems to be any concrete data to back it up.

Personally, I don't have time to bother with all of that. I'm too busy just living my life, and enjoying it, to really care.

[ColleenA]

Been doing alot of research lately and the only ones I have come accross were under questionable circumstances. Like the one who had a lot of money but little patience and wasn't even transsexual.

I've heard of a few people (including some public figures I won't name) who regretted transitioning - because they weren't truly transsexual. When I read "True Selves," at the request of someone who was transitioning, I appreciated seeing a list of wrong reasons why someone might seek to change their gender. Two of the top types were an intense crossdresser who thinks that is the "next step" and a gay man who is conflicted about his homosexuality and thinks "becoming" female will make it ok to be with men.


Can't speak to actual TSs, except my BFF. For her, the only thing that made her unhappy about her transition was getting/feeling the disrespect women generally receive across the board in our society. Not only did she lose "male privilege" (which others have mentioned on some threads), but despite having a genius IQ, she gets talked down to as if she were a child, even by men who know she's aiming to become a doctor.

[ReineD]

I've read stories from people who were unhappy and I've met people who were unhappy, but I always took it they weren't TS and they shouldn't have gone down that path to begin with. I should think the TSs would feel a massive relief to have their bodies align with their gender.

I've read several academic studies on SRS and they've all said that the surgery is of huge benefit to people who have GID, and that overall the happiness levels are greatly improved .... (among the TSs).

[LisaMallon]

Well if you have a lot of other life problems as well, transitioning won't 'cure' them. But, it can take away one key issue that might be, if not the core cause, at least a major contributor.
Hopefully freeing you up a bit to deal with the other things.

The stats you quote Val are similar to what I have came across. The vast majority are happy with their transition, but they may not be terribly happy with life overall.
As far as I see it, that's a significant step forward. At least one issue is out of they way.

But realistically there are huge numbers of people of all types and from all walks of life and all places that are not terribly happy. We all soldier on the best we can.

Not a 'magic bullet' by any means, maybe an asprin or good massage or even a good cup of tea. Not going to solve your work/life/ etc problems, even can cause some whole new ones.
But at least that damn thing that is always at the back of your mind is gone.

Maybe you can then even start to think a bit more clearly, even relax a touch by being able to drop that 'front' you spend so much energy keeping up.

Given the choice, if worst came to worst, I'd rather be an unhappy female than a unhappy male. Naturally I'm hoping for a bit better outcome for myself of course (and everyone else), but if I even just feel a bit more comfortable .. I'll take that, definitely worth it as far as I'm concerned.

[Nicole Erin]

Some people won't be happy no matter what.
During or after transition, you just go about living life.
For the unhappy TS, maybe they miss the fun and thrills they first got with all the "firsts".

With this whole "wasn't truely TS" garbage, I find that hard to believe cause with all the crap one goes thru to get as far as they can, it takes a while. If someone did the whole "standards of care" crap that only well-off people can afford, that means they had to - do electro, live the one year RLE, change name, go thru social transition, and just a lot of things that are expensive and time-consuming. How does one go thru that and then decide, "This wasn't for me".

I don't know, maybe I don't know what I am talking about cause i have not had surgeries.

[Kathryn Martin]

With this whole "wasn't truely TS" garbage, I find that hard to believe cause with all the crap one goes thru to get as far as they can, it takes a while. If someone did the whole "standards of care" crap that only well-off people can afford, that means they had to - do electro, live the one year RLE, change name, go thru social transition, and just a lot of things that are expensive and time-consuming. How does one go thru that and then decide, "This wasn't for me".

Nicole, you knew when you wrote this that this would be offensive, didn't you? So why say it?

The reason why people go through this and find out it is not for them, is peer pressure to transition, when a therapist convinces the person that they are transsexual, there are clear mental health issues. I recently ran across such a person. She had surgery and immediately regretted it. Her being trans was an attention grabber in an otherwise empty life. She had gone through all of the per-requisites. She believed before that this would solve all of her problems. After surgery her problems really started.

Whoever let her through the gate needs to have their license revoked, but there you go.

[CharleneT]

I have known, personally, a couple of people who felt that they regretted transitioning (MTF's). As many others have said, the process of transition does not solve other problems and a fair number of folks think it will. I also know some who seem what I call "stuck". For them transition is the right thing to do, but somewhere along the way they can't just live a life. Kate'sback points out this group pretty often, after all the "stuff" they just don't know what to do.

[LeaP]

It seems to me you have to be pretty blind or deluded to wind up in the 2-3%. One of my more interesting moments in therapy was when I was asked how I viewed transition and life after transition. The answer was as realistic as I could know at that point and also described expectations of personal and social difficulties, loss of credibility and influence, possible ridicule behind my back and to my face, covert work discrimination and more. Any and all may happen to a greater or lesser extent. That was coupled with a discussion of emotional strength to endure it. (And I have my doubts and fears on this.)

Surely any competent therapist screens for their clients' preparedness in this fashion?

[juno]

There is a higher percentage of people who ar not so happy with SRS results. Only about 43% of transwomen with a vagina use it for sex, so it is not surprising that many of those people don't like the extra maintenence for something that they did only to blend in the women's locker room.

I know one M2F who feels that life is harder after transition because she worries too much about other people finding out she is trans. The strange thing is that she is physically very passable. Hopefully time spent female will cure her fears.

I decided that self-confidence training is the most important feminization treatment, more so than FFS or SRS, but is the most neglected. I enrolled in a burlesque class, so I could get half naked in front of srangers with girls who accept me as one of them. AFter that, I really don't care so much about getting a nose job.

[CharleneT]

. . .

Surely any competent therapist screens for their clients' preparedness in this fashion?

Surely no therapist is perfect, plus they are completely dependent on the honesty of their clients. Even given complete honesty, there is just no way to know for sure how someone will feel after such a hugely life altering process....

[Julia_in_Pa]

Renee,

I had to transition to avoid death.
I have a coal train full of regrets of what my transition cost me.
The old adage of " you can't have your cake and eat it too " applies to me here.

OK so I received life saving chemotherapy to rid myself of cancer but why did the chemo cost me spouse, family, friends my job and my life savings?



Julia

[LeaP]

Surely no therapist is perfect, plus they are completely dependent on the honesty of their clients. Even given complete honesty, there is just no way to know for sure how someone will feel after such a hugely life altering process....

True. I wonder how many of the people in the regrets and unhappiness categories discussed the transition realities and not just the GID with their caregivers, though.

[Michelle.M]

Only about 43% of transwomen with a vagina use it for sex, so it is not surprising that many of those people don't like the extra maintenence for something that they did only to blend in the women's locker room.

I can accept that 43% of transwomen are having sex regularly ("using it for sex" makes it sound like all they did was buy a sex toy), considering that this figure is an average of all transwomen and specific figures vary by age group. One survey reports that 37% of genetic women over 65 are sexually active, and younger women would have higher percentages so it's quite likely that 43% of transwomen being sexually active is probably consistent with sex activity among genetic girls.

But to say that the others got a vaginoplasty simply to fit in at the gym is simply offensive. The non-op transwomen I know blend in just fine without the need for GRS. That was a choice they made, and as far as I can tell it was a good one. To say that GRS only helps a girl fit in at the locker room is an insult to transwomen who have chosen to make as full a transition as possible and to fully bring their bodies in line with their own gender identity.

[Stephanie-L]

After reading some of the replies here, I do understand the WPATH requirements a bit better. No, no single therapist is perfect, but at least two "experienced" professionals will hopefully catch something, not to mention the other professionals you have to deal with who might get a clue. Also, let's face it, we are often pretty s*****d up, many of us have problems other than, or contributing to, our gender issues. If you don't deal with those as well, transitioning won't help, in fact it may make the others worse by allowing them to "shine" so to speak. Then, as others have noted, being a gender you aren't raised as presents it's own stack of issues to deal with, you have to learn a whole new and different way of dealing with the world, this would seem to go for MTF and FTM folks. Anyway, I am not expecting butterflies and flowers after I transition, but at least one of my issues will be dealt with, and I am still working on others. Good luck to all......Stephanie

[Julia_in_Pa]

I also feel I need to add to my previous comment.
After reading what I typed it sounds like I regret fully what I had to do.

I don't.

I've met some wonderful, beautiful people since transition that I would have never had met if I had killed myself instead of transitioning.
I've gone to places and have seen things I would have never seen if I hadn't transitioned.
I'm fully accepted as the woman I am by my peers, colleagues, friends and SO.

The price for all of this was so incredibly steep that if my life wasn't threatened by not transitioning I highly doubt I would have transitioned.

This is why I always say if you don't absolutely have to transition then don't.

I don't care who reads this or comments about it but if you haven't transitioned you have absolutely no idea what it's like to do so.
There is nothing that compares to it concerning anything else in life.
If there is a phrase one could use to sum up transition I believe it could be this; It's life taking and life saving at the very same time.


Julia

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Transition is about improving your quality of life.

If your quality of life is high, then it is rare to feel the need to transition, especially as you grow older
...quality of life includes how you feel about yourself and your overall mental health..and money, love, power and comfort can easily be trumped by gender dyshphoria...

When your quality of life is low because of gender dyshphoria only, and then you eliminate the gender dysphoria...there is a now what? moment...it is very common to pay a high price and suffer meaningful loss to achieve transition..its a trade off..
and now the dysphoria is gone and i experienced of feeling of disbelief because the GD was eradicated to the point of me losing the ability to really remember except as an observer...i can remember what it was...but i can not remember how bad it was..
all i haveto do is look back at my journal to see how crazy bad it was...

its a miracle that MORE people are not unhappy...they are not because gender dysphoria is such an awful thing, and getting rid of it is so valuable...

JUno, I hate to break it you, but surgery does incredibly wonderful things for people that are transsexual...both the srs and the body confirmation (regardless of your sexuality which has NOTHING TO DO with being TS), and the ffs which makes it literally impossible for people to read you as a man.....teenage girls don't even read you as male... and guess what, those of us that do the surgery can take the same approach and build up our self confidence too!....its great for a person that won't get surgery to have self confidence, but deriding is not right and shows a real lack of understanding of what we do...

[MC-lite]

With regard to transitioning, I'd like to think that anything (or anybody) I lost along the way was -not- worth keeping. I didn't go into this with unrealistic expectations, though. I didn't expect to be a perfect looking little girl. I didn't expect to find a fairy tale prince. I knew that transitioning would throw my life into an upheaval, and it did.

But I know that, in three years, I've come a -long- way. Yeah...I get disgusted and disappointed from time to time, but I realize that many natal females feel the same way. Especially ones in my age group. That realization comes from sharing my feelings with them. And from them sharing their feelings with me.

There are going to be people who will -never- be happy, no matter what they have or get. Male or female, these people will drive themselves crazy with obcession and desires that can't be fulfilled. If you're not one of them, you should do okay transitioning.

If you are, then that's what you have to work on with your therapist.

@Julia: I like what you said about transition being life saving and life taking at the same time. We are truly the phoenix, rising from the ashes to rebuild.

:Miki.

[ReineD]

How does one go thru that and then decide, "This wasn't for me".

Well, with one person I know, it turned out that the end result was not at all what she had imagined or expected. She hasn't decided, "This isn't for me" though. She is making the best of it.



Whoever let her through the gate needs to have their license revoked, but there you go.

Exactly.

[Inna]

Speaking solely from my own experience, not minding percentage points and statistical data, I have arrived at the other end, and still working on it, and feel happiness and joy not entirely because I have set out on transition, but because I have embraced spirituality for most. My loving sister who embraced me and showed the light, my loving family who had stayed loving despite the hardship of their beloved going to travel through hells gates and perhaps never return. All those aspects are not in the "Standards Of Care"!

As I know of few Transwoman who do it alone, I can not phantom their resolve and devotion, and pain they must suffer, for when I have experienced my pain it felt as though at times death would had been a gift. I can clearly see how half of us do not make it through, and for them I weep, but their struggle is over and their souls free at last.

Being a woman is not some holy grail of being, fascinating adventure, joyful fun party, but mere existing within the world and trying make best of it. Just simply ask any GG here, "HOW FABULOUS IS IT TO BE A WOMAN" I am sure their answers are going to bore you, LOL, don't get me wrong, being a woman my self I am ecstatic for this chance, I am joyous and extremely happy. But that because I once lived a life of pretense and disguise and live that life I do no more!

[melissaK]

here's one survey from the UK http://www.help.northwest.nhs.uk/library/item/977


Thanks ValRom, a quote with a cite rather than unbridled anecdote.

Ann Vitale's book "The Gendered Self", FlyFisher Press 2010, in Chapter 8 says: "There are only a limited number of empirical studies looking specifically at individuals who have not benefited from gender-role transition. Perhaps because the numbers involved appear to make up such a minor percentage of the total number of patients treated, they are not thought of as being of significance." She goes on to specifically discuss a 1992 study and a 1998 study, and to discuss specific case examples of transitioning and de-transitioning.

Rather than collect anecdotal evidence, go read her book, then track down and read her well cited and footnoted references.

Hugs,
'lissa

[Julia_in_Pa]

@Julia: I like what you said about transition being life saving and life taking at the same time. We are truly the phoenix, rising from the ashes to rebuild.:Miki.

Indeed Michaela..Indeed.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Rather than collect anecdotal evidence, go read her book, then track down and read her well cited and footnoted references.

Hugs,
'lissa

Statistics seem to me to be limited in value to us...
We already know that its most likely you won't regret transition...whether its 60/70/90/98 % chance you won't regret...what the difference?

I look to the anecdotes more than the stats..perhaps it should be both..

i'd much prefer to hear 30 or 40 stories, even on a forum like this than read a statistic..btw...25 is a statistically signifcant sample...i''m pretty sure we have at least 25 among us...

just saying its very very helpful to have a dialogue and be able to make your own determination about the credibility and meaning of each statistic..if someone expresses regrets, being able to talk to them about it seems invaluable...if someone here has regrets it would be courageous to share them and communicate with people that are wondering whether transition is in the cards..should we include a Charles Kane type of person ??? i guess we should if your point of view is similar to his going in, you should be aware of his story...but his story has less than zero relevance to me

btw...i loved avitale..thnx for mentioning her ..I read the book...I found myself in her writings and that was comforting to me..should be required reading.

[Nicole Erin]

Nicole, you knew when you wrote this that this would be offensive, didn't you? So why say it?

The reason why people go through this and find out it is not for them, is peer pressure to transition, when a therapist convinces the person that they are transsexual, there are clear mental health issues.

No, it wasn't meant to be offensive.

Anyways, with therapists convincing them to do this, well of course they will. They are not going to make any money by telling someone they are not TS, and then other docs won't make money off whatever they do for TS women.

If being post-op is an issue for some, they should have thought about that for themselves instead of expecting others to think for them. Some people refuse to think for themselves even on big issues.

[AmandaM]

I find myself going from CDer to TS and back in my feelings a lot. I think my TS feelings increase the more I stress out. So, am I really a TS? Or am I having stress-induced gender dsyphoria? Until I know the answer, I shouldn't attempt transition. I can see how someone could mistake this for full-blown TS'ism and make a mistake. I'm an advocate of intense therapy to try to get to the root of the issue for anyone contemplating transition.

[sandra-leigh]

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html

http://tgmentalhealth.com/tag/post-transition/

[kimdl93]

It seems to me that, as Julia and others have stated so clearly, transition is for a TS person a life saving necessity - not a panacea for life's problems. From time to time I'll read a post by a TG who seems to fantasize that life will be so much different if they transitioned. Its as though they hope to escape other aspects of their lives...and thats just not likely to work.

As an old friend used to say "where ever you go, there you are."

[LeaP]

Anyways, with therapists convincing them to do this, well of course they will. They are not going to make any money by telling someone they are not TS, and then other docs won't make money off whatever they do for TS women.

If being post-op is an issue for some, they should have thought about that for themselves instead of expecting others to think for them. Some people refuse to think for themselves even on big issues.

I agree with your second paragraph, but wonder about the cynicism in the first. I've had experience with 5 different therapists over the years - a psychologist, a psychiatrist, a marriage counselor, and 2 social workers (LICSW). I didn't perceive any of them as being motivated by money and none of them was (or is) exactly wealthy. In fact, my brother bailed out of his Psych PhD program because he didn't see much of a financial future in the clinical work in which he was interested.

[Bree-asaurus]

It seems to me that, as Julia and others have stated so clearly, transition is for a TS person a life saving necessity - not a panacea for life's problems. From time to time I'll read a post by a TG who seems to fantasize that life will be so much different if they transitioned. Its as though they hope to escape other aspects of their lives...and thats just not likely to work.

As an old friend used to say "where ever you go, there you are."

Yuppers. My life isn't really any different than it would have been if I didn't transition... and I didn't expect it to be any different either. I had a specific problem that only transition could fix. I didn't expect miracles... just survival.

Luckily I am doing much more than surviving... My chronic stress and depression is gone. I am more comfortable, calm and happy. But my increased happiness is also because of my relationship with my boyfriend... so I can't say it's all because of transition :P

[Kathryn Martin]

Sandra, these links are an absolute must read for anyone who wants to transition. I was not familiar with the second link, but certainly with the first one. The step from knowing who and what you are to transitioning is the only portion of the journey that involves a choice. Because we are self- aware we can deny ourselves the decision, being trans is not a choice but what you do about it is. Once you are in a hormone program and have taken the step of socially and professionally transition it is very hard to go back and once you have SRS that's it, no male parts left and they can not ever be reconstructed to enable what was there before.

If you have even a doubt left in your mind about who you are do nothing and try to clarify your thoughts and feelings (this took decades for me), once you transition you will alter your body in a manner that takes you out of the normal acceptance range for your sex of origin and if you have SRS then you must know that you may never find what you might be seeking such as a hetero normative relationship with a man and your expectations regarding intimacy may be thwarted by this inability to obtain such a relationship. No man may ever find me attractive enough to seek intimacy (not that I would seek such because of my personal situation). These are all thoughts that must be had before taking the decision to transition.

I really appreciate you bringing these links into the discussion.


http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html

http://tgmentalhealth.com/tag/post-transition/

[Dutchess]

The reason why people go through this and find out it is not for them, is peer pressure to transition, when a therapist convinces the person that they are transsexual, there are clear mental health issues. I recently ran across such a person. She had surgery and immediately regretted it. Her being trans was an attention grabber in an otherwise empty life

Since Ive been here last ( which has been awhile ) I personally know two people like this in real life ( not just online) , I finally had to break off contact with one ...

[Kathryn Martin]

This is just too sad, but I completely understand this. It is a colossal failure of a system that wants to make money off us, and a colossal failure of the person herself.


Since Ive been here last ( which has been awhile ) I personally know two people like this in real life ( not just online) , I finally had to break off contact with one ...

[ReneeT]

I am a strong advocate of a slow, thoughtful transition grounded in a strong therapeutic relationship with an experienced mental health professional. *When we talk of transition, we usually talk about it if it was one neat little package. *Our physical bodies transition. *Ou hormonal environment transitions. *Our interpersonal relationships transition. *Our families and marriage transition. *Our roles in the world change. *Our mental outlook and inner peace transitions. *All of these aspects of transition occurr on differrent time scales. *If our physical transition gets too far ahead of the others, we can end up with more stress, anxiety, and unhappiness than before. *If i could have at the time, i wouldhave had srs at the first point i became sure that i was TS. *That would have been a mistake. *It would have literally blown up my life. *It is hard enough holding all the pieces together at the seemingly slow pace i am going. *I attribute * my relative success so far to a really good onging relationship with my therapist. *She has pushed back on me, hard at times, and forced me to face sometouh issues before i pulled the trigger. *As a result, i am in a better place now than i would have ever imagined. *I think i will be happy in the end.

[Cindy M]

I pray for your happiness, Renee. You deserve it :)

[Bree-asaurus]

I am a strong advocate of a slow, thoughtful transition grounded in a strong therapeutic relationship with an experienced mental health professional. *When we talk of transition, we usually talk about it if it was one neat little package. *Our physical bodies transition. *Ou hormonal environment transitions. *Our interpersonal relationships transition. *Our families and marriage transition. *Our roles in the world change. *Our mental outlook and inner peace transitions. *All of these aspects of transition occurr on differrent time scales. *If our physical transition gets too far ahead of the others, we can end up with more stress, anxiety, and unhappiness than before. *If i could have at the time, i wouldhave had srs at the first point i became sure that i was TS. *That would have been a mistake. *It would have literally blown up my life. *It is hard enough holding all the pieces together at the seemingly slow pace i am going. *I attribute * my relative success so far to a really good onging relationship with my therapist. *She has pushed back on me, hard at times, and forced me to face sometouh issues before i pulled the trigger. *As a result, i am in a better place now than i would have ever imagined. *I think i will be happy in the end.

We work with what we've got. Some of us 'got' more to work with than others. The less you 'got' to work with, the easier it is. I didn't have much to worry about since the people closest to me didn't want me affecting their lifestyle. I basically lost my family and the love of my life early on... so all I had to worry about was myself. Thankfully my blood family and all my friends stuck with me once I was on my path.

[kittypw GG]

Figures I've seen on the web, sorry never kept the links, quoted only 2 to 3% of people were unhappy after transition and I'd assume those 2 to 3% would be as you say under questionable circumstances.

Ok so...........if you consider the percentage of people who are transexual to begin with (very low number of the population) and 2-3% regret it? that number is actually shockingly high. I'm betting that the 2-3% have very unrealistic expectations of what a women is. Also the constructed female parts are not exactly identical to biological female parts which leads to some of the disapointment? I was also having a conversation with a transexual freind of mine and there is the little know secret of the prostate. This is not removed during SRS. There has to be still a risk for prostate cancer and exposure to one's true biological gender and if your are all female legally how does insurance pick up the tab for a strictly "male" problem such as prostate cancer? I think the best thing is to accept one's self for who they are and not sink all your eggs in the "now I'm female" basket.

[LeaP]

I don't know which amazes me more - the ignorance or insensitivity.

[ReneeT]

Ok so...........if you consider the percentage of people who are transexual to begin with (very low number of the population) and 2-3% regret it? that number is actually shockingly high. I'm betting that the 2-3% have very unrealistic expectations of what a women is. Also the constructed female parts are not exactly identical to biological female parts which leads to some of the disapointment? I was also having a conversation with a transexual freind of mine and there is the little know secret of the prostate. This is not removed during SRS. There has to be still a risk for prostate cancer and exposure to one's true biological gender and if your are all female legally how does insurance pick up the tab for a strictly "male" problem such as prostate cancer? I think the best thing is to accept one's self for who they are and not sink all your eggs in the "now I'm female" basket.

3% is "shockingly high"? Maybe for airline crashes or death from a dental cleaning, but i see that as exceedingly low for a process as complicated and tortuous as gender transition. As for the authenticity of the "female parts", you are correct that they are not identical but, at least externally, they are darn close. Honestly, i dont think many of us transition to get laid. You do raise a good point about the retained prostate, but i dont think many TS folk stay awake at night worrying about it. If it is a cause of post-transition unhappiness, then mental health intervention is definately indicated. In fact, while not adequately studied yet, it is highly likely that the risk of prostate Ca in TS women on hrt and/or post op is lower than non TS men. Orchiectomy and anti androgens are recognized treatments for prostate Ca


I am not sure what to make of your last comment. I have accepted myself for who i am. That is precisely why i am transitioning.

[Frances]

Ok so...........if you consider the percentage of people who are transexual to begin with (very low number of the population) and 2-3% regret it? that number is actually shockingly high. I'm betting that the 2-3% have very unrealistic expectations of what a women is. Also the constructed female parts are not exactly identical to biological female parts which leads to some of the disapointment? I was also having a conversation with a transexual freind of mine and there is the little know secret of the prostate. This is not removed during SRS. There has to be still a risk for prostate cancer and exposure to one's true biological gender and if your are all female legally how does insurance pick up the tab for a strictly "male" problem such as prostate cancer? I think the best thing is to accept one's self for who they are and not sink all your eggs in the "now I'm female" basket.

How is 2 to 3 % of anything a high number? Are there statistics on the occurence of prostate cancer in trans women? I have never heard of any case, ever. There may be some, but I know women who had surgery more than 30 years ago and they know lots of trans women. No prostate cancer anywhere. The prostate shrinks to nothing. The American insurance reality is just that: American. In other countries, cancer of any kind will be treated and paid for by the government.

And here you go again with the accepting oneself stuff and fear mongering. You are one of the most transphobic people I have seen on this site over the years. Not everyone is transsexual, but what is it with this crusade of yours?

[Bree-asaurus]

3% is "shockingly high"? Maybe for airline crashes or death from a dental cleaning, but i see that as exceedingly low for a process as complicated and tortuous as gender transition. As for the authenticity of the "female parts", you are correct that they are not identical but, at least externally, they are darn close. Honestly, i dont think many of us transition to get laid. You do raise a good point about the retained prostate, but i dont think many TS folk stay awake at night worrying about it. If it is a cause of post-transition unhappiness, then mental health intervention is definately indicated. In fact, while not adequately studied yet, it is highly likely that the risk of prostate Ca in TS women on hrt and/or post op is lower than non TS men. Orchiectomy and anti androgens are recognized treatments for prostate Ca


I am not sure what to make of your last comment. I have accepted myself for who i am. That is precisely why i am transitioning.

Yeah... if your plans to get SRS are solely so you can fool guys into sleeping with you... umm... good luck.

But regardless, there are so many variations in genitalia, that I don't think any guy would be able to differentiate any decent post SRS genitalia from the real thing (aside from the lubrication issue... but you can easily make excuses for that).

As for the prostate, I'm keeping that mofo after I get SRS. I can't see it and it feels good. I can't get the full female organs so I'm keeping that stupid prostate!!! (Which I'm sure is less likely to become cancerous due to the lack of testosterone...)

[MC-lite]

I was under the impression that

A) The Prostate shrinks -substantially- with HRT, eventually becoming the rough equivalent of the female G-spot.

-and-

B) Incidence of prostate problems among TSes is -extremely- low, with the exception of those who transition after 40. Even then, it's -very- low.

Somebody with more experience please correct me if I'm wrong.

-also-

We're not becoming women. We -are- women. We're just making our bodies match our minds. As far as the female parts not being the same, I think I'll reserve comment on that one, for fear that my acerbic wit and sense of humor might make me say something that I'll regret. :D

[Frances]

Female prostate

See also: G-Spot#Female prostate

The Skene's glands are homologous with the prostate gland in males.[7] The fluid that emerges during sex, female ejaculation, has a composition somewhat similar to the fluid generated in males by the prostate gland,[8][9] containing biochemical markers of sexual function like human urinary protein 1[10] and the enzyme PDE5 where women without the gland had lower concentrations.[11] When examined with electron microscopy, both glands show similar secretory structures,[12] and both act similarly in terms of prostate-specific antigen and prostate-specific acid phosphatase studies.[13][14][15][16] Because they are increasingly perceived as merely different versions of the same gland, some researchers are moving away from the name Skene's gland and are referring to it instead as the female prostate.[17]

The diffrence is size. HRT takes care of that.

[Raquel June]

Most people are much more happy (or at least relieved and able to get on with their lives) after transition.

As for those who aren't, there's a big difference between "still unhappy" and "more unhappy." I don't think many people are particularly happy before transition, and a lot of people focus on transition like it'll fix all their problems. But I don't think many people are more unhappy. And if they are, they're damaged people who probably shouldn't have transitioned, but would've found some other possibly more self-destructive endeavor if they hadn't.

[Kirsty_D]

We're not becoming women. We -are- women.


I'm with you here, and this is the answer I give people at my work, 100% (macho) male dominated rig pigs. I am and always have been a woman.

[Sharon]

I think the best thing is to accept one's self for who they are and not sink all your eggs in the "now I'm female" basket.

Seriously, why are you even looking in this section if you are unable to even pretend to want to understand transsexuals and transsexuality? Are you so devoid of empathy that you have this need to come in here and insultingly tell us what is best for us? Open your mind to the thought of having to try to live your life in a body that is completely inappropriate as far as it relates to our brains. Using your numbers, ninety-seven to 98% of transitioned individuals are happy; if the general population was that happy with themselves it would be a wonderful world.

You are a closed minded so and so who can not see past your own ignorance.

[Raquel June]

Nicole, you knew when you wrote this that this would be offensive, didn't you? So why say it?

The reason why people go through this and find out it is not for them, is peer pressure to transition, when a therapist convinces the person that they are transsexual, there are clear mental health issues. I recently ran across such a person. She had surgery and immediately regretted it. Her being trans was an attention grabber in an otherwise empty life. She had gone through all of the per-requisites. She believed before that this would solve all of her problems. After surgery her problems really started.

Whoever let her through the gate needs to have their license revoked, but there you go.

I don't think Nicole was being offensive. To those of us who have eaten off the dollar menu for lunch and ramen for dinner so that we can get electolysis, who have self-medicated with whatever was cheapest online because we had no health coverage, who have worried that we lost our minds because nothing fits -- worried so much that we were just completely crazy -- but known that facing our transexuality and having this community is the closest we've come to sanity ... who have felt all this as positives in a desperate life of negatives and just trying to numb and distract ourselves ... For us it is incredibly offensive that there are people out there who really are just plain crazy ... people for whom transitioning is just a whim of an empty person looking for attention.

But ... at the same time, describing these people as attention grabbers with empty lives ... That is an accurate description, but maybe not the most useful. It's frightening. Because my life feels awfully empty. And I know I'm trans. But I also know I'm alone and could use some attention.

I'm not quite sure what I'm saying. But I know you're both right. In different ways. Different ways that are both important to understand. I need some sleep.

[ReineD]

I think the best thing is to accept one's self for who they are and not sink all your eggs in the "now I'm female" basket.

Kitty, your ignorance on these issues is monumental. I don't know how much time you've spent reading about Gender Identity Disorder but it is something that can only be treated with HRT and SRS. Transsexual women simply do not have bodies that align with their internal genders. I would point you to a wealth of information but frankly I don't know that it would do any good, since you're likely to mistrust any resources obtained from this board. You'll just need to take it upon yourself to find your own resources. And read them. Multiple resources. Go to an academic library and read every word that is written on the subject.

But to come into the TS section to rub in the members' faces, the fact that their bodies will never have the same primary sexual characteristics as a genetic female's is beyond insensitive. I don't think you realize how cruel this is.

Or, maybe you just clicked on the "What's New" button and you thought you were posting in the CDing section? Even if this is the case, it is not up to you to make judgments on other people's gender identity.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I think Val you won me over to research in the sense the I view all those statistics as incredibly affirming to people that have internal gender identities that don't match their body... i was looking at it the other way in thinking that reading percentages don't really tell enough of the story...even if it was 50/50 i would have transitioned...

but looking at those statistics its an easy conclusion that if you take your time and work with folks that know what they are doing, you should be highly confident that you will not have regrets...

I especially noted this quote, and it ties to my personal experience..btw..my sample size is well over 50, which as a mathemetician i can say is just statistically significant!!!

"it might be considered quite remarkable that, following surgery, not one patient’s physical appearance had given cause for personal dissatisfaction."...I agree..

i would also add an interesting take as follows...

every transitioned transsexual i've ever met, except one has NOT regretted transition..among these transsexuals the advice to me ranged from DONT DO IT to be really really careful.... most of them are middle aged, most of them lost their job, most of them ended up divorced..but still did not regret getting rid of their gender dypshoria...cynical and bitter? sure some are...but regret , no....

i think it says something about how crazy this concept is, and how much courage and resolve is really neccessary to do it...

...btw...that one person's regret centered around her appearance and because she looked so out of place it impacted her ability to go back to her career...she felt much better about it when after what i think was 7 years she got a pretty good research position..

+++++++

Kitty deserves to be ignored here...she has been around a long time doing this..i skip right over her messages now and only went back to it because of the responses...kill her with kindness i say...

++++++

I recently did my blood work, and i paid out of pocket 30 bucks to get my baseline PSA....i don't see why i want to take a chance...
I also experienced the dreaded lump in the breast which is most likely an adhesion from my implant, so i need to get the ultrasound.... the doc speficially said, i've felt malignacies, this feels nothing like that, but i'm still not thrilled to know they are gonna see something...who knows if they'll want to test it..

[MC-lite]

I don't know how much time you've spent reading about Gender Identity Disorder but it is something that can only be treated with HRT and SRS.
With the statements that She was making, I'd say none at all.

@kittypw GG: Those who make judgements about others are usually the ones least qualified to make such judgements.

What were you thinking when you pressed the "Submit Reply" button?

[Kathryn Martin]

I have asked myself whether your comment, Kitty, should be answered with a serious response or simply, as has been given by some, attributing your comment to ignorance or insensitivity. Or, whether I should ignore it.

I decided that I would take your comment seriously and would like to give you a serious response.

In doing so, I take into account your propensity to color your commentary by your own personal experiences with your partner, and the prejudice that you have developed in regards to both crossdressing men and transsexuals.

I appears from your post that you are of the view regarding transsexuals that the genitals and the genetic material define who is a man and who is a woman. You appear to subscribe to the idea, that simply looking at someones genital region will be determinative of who they are and that you will tailor your social response according to what you find there.

This is of course a gross objectification of the persons you are dealing with. In this case, coming to the forum where transsexuals attempt to find advice, support and education you have in one fell swoop made it clear, that not only those that have male genitals but also all that have female genitals are men, provided they were not born with them. It is, to use a comparison that is directly related, like saying that a person who lost her leg for instance during war action in Afghanistan, is a whole person notwithstanding the fact that they are disabled now. Conversely, you are saying that a person who was born with a congenital heart defect which is fixed through surgery, is forever disabled because they will forever have the remnants and the evidence of that defect as part of their body. You define the gender of the person by their sex. In your approach, a female that has no female traits whatsoever, and there are many out there, is always a female not because of the person they are but rather because they have vaginas.

When you speak about the prostate which remains post surgery, you are somewhat misinformed, because while the prostate remains it does so with the reduced function of an erogenous zone in the same place where the G-spot sits. There is no other function of it left. The insurance issue is really a non-issue after surgery, because if it were to become cancerous, it would amount to vaginal cancer, because both it's biological origin and function is equal to a woman's origin and function of the G-spot. If you were consequent in your assessment and your judgement about who we are post-op you would determine that we are female because our crotch, if you forgive the expression, shows that we have a fully functioning vagina. You might say, but what about the reproductive organs. Well, if someone is born with atrophied reproductive organs causing infertility with a resulting hysterectomy at age 12 onset of puberty (I know of at least one case by direct experience) and it has to be removed, that person would still be female even though the potential of reproducing never existed. In your view, having female genitals then would be enough?

The number of transsexuals is indeed small, we are at the end of the day a vanishing minority in the general population. How we become a part of this minority is a very involved process of self discovery, through a process of therapy and consultation during which the therapist and counselor performs a very stringent gate keeping function which allows in the rarest of cases persons to proceed to hormones and finally to reassignment surgery. There is nothing random about this process, it is extremely involved and complex and essentially prevents misdiagnoses to the largest extent. In fact, in the end, our Standards of Care require us to have the diagnosis, therapy and consultation repeated by a second fully qualified person because surgery requires two independant assessments and recommendations.

By the time we begin hormones and have surgery we have no unrealistic expectations left, and we know exactly what we are in for.

It is interesting, that the majority of failed transitions seem to have an element of skipping some or all of the Standard of Care requirements.

The number of 3% is in fact entirely within the medical errors prevalence for the general population. 3.08 % of persons undergoing medical treatment in the US experience a patient safety incident. The number is in fact on par with general occurences of medical malpractice.

Unfortunately, I find that you often make statements which lack foundation both in reflection and research to understand the subject matter at hand, because your personal experience has tainted your view of this whole part of your world. This is sad, because you could actually make a contribution if you were well informed and your personal experiences were tempered by understanding.

Until that time you will objectify and callously hurt those that have done nothing to deserve it.



Ok so...........if you consider the percentage of people who are transexual to begin with (very low number of the population) and 2-3% regret it? that number is actually shockingly high. I'm betting that the 2-3% have very unrealistic expectations of what a women is. Also the constructed female parts are not exactly identical to biological female parts which leads to some of the disapointment? I was also having a conversation with a transexual freind of mine and there is the little know secret of the prostate. This is not removed during SRS. There has to be still a risk for prostate cancer and exposure to one's true biological gender and if your are all female legally how does insurance pick up the tab for a strictly "male" problem such as prostate cancer? I think the best thing is to accept one's self for who they are and not sink all your eggs in the "now I'm female" basket.