Disturbing & Alarming

[Inna]

Last night I met with few TG friends, amongst them, several CDs and others, well, not sure which way they are heading.
What truly shook me up was conversation with one of the older TS who seems she may not be TS.
She comes off as very provocative, FETISH, mind set, dressing in rather vulgar plastic clothing posing as a teen yet occupying a body of a quite mature person to say least.
But even though I shy from such visuals I kept close and conversation opened up into the realm of pain and sorrow.
She was down because of some comments at the club, and felt depressed and down, quite frankly she rather promoted such views from the public with her own, of the wall to say least, presentation.

But the hurtful words are hurtful nevertheless, and so I asked if she truly believed she was TS and this wasn't a fetishistic CDing. She kind of took it offensively, but the question was meant to stir up some emotions deep within.

She went on to say that she wasn't sure and that she was searching for balance so illusive in her case.
She so far had a slew of plastic surgery including face lifts, FFS, breast augmentation and god only knows what else. No SRS though! she likes the thing down there, and what took me by surprise, that she is no longer on any hormones since the regimen made her uncomfortable and she said, felt out of place. To me it totally raised red flags, and if I was a professional, I would immediately worn her of impending doom.

Such conversation brought me face to face with the question we often heard here about suicide after transition, de-transition and dissatisfaction with transition. She is a candidate to make the list. and I hope and pray she will find peace, but so far seeing how unhappy and lost she was, peace is a far away concept.

So, the reason for this post is simply this, that transition is NOT a chase after youthful second life, nor a play, or a fancy fetish fulfilled dream, but as rough, deeply compromising, sharp awakening into reality of SELF!

Transition is the last available out for desperate transgender person seeking life instead of misery, and for god sake, therapy is soooooo important I can't stress it enough!! She went on to self medicate and order all the surgeries without once stepping into therapist office.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Inna,

I doubt she will find peace.
I'm finding it extremely difficult to call this person she not because of her genitalia but because of his/her mindset.
This person has set him/herself up for failure by doing the very thing that apparently turns him/her on, that being the illusion of being female no matter how unrealistic that illusion he/she created is.

If he/she was truly TS there would have had to have been medical and medical consultation involved in order to actually transition into a world of the normal and the everyday.

This person is so far removed from the definition of what a transsexual is that it's absurd to even entertain the thought of it.

A transsexual person can first think she is a cross dresser and work through the issues until she decided that she is actually a transsexual.
In this case seemingly no thought whatsoever was given to what he/she actually was feeling other than a male sex drive and high level fetish need to mirror the very thing that he/she was sexually turned on by.

The ravages of time have obviously worked it's curse upon her/him and now he/she is feeling the enevitable rejection that is occuring by the very sex driven mantra she subscribed both her mind and body to.

I would not be surprised if suicide was not too far away for this person.


Julia

[Traci Elizabeth]

Her clothing may be a way of reaching out for help.

But "OFF THE RECORD" you make her out to be a "NUT CASE!"

I also think mature woman should not be out there dressed like they are going to a Halloween party or to a teenie beenie party.

[Kathryn Martin]

Where do I even begin addressing what you have said. For me one of the most disturbing facts about the entire Trans Conundrum (and here I include TS persons as well) is the inappropriate presentation that seems to be so prevalent. If you go to town, from a woman's point of view you assess and often judge the presentations of others for what works what doesn't work, is this becoming or Did you look in the mirror before you left the house. I am not at all restrictive in my views on creativeness in dress and appearance and even some very over the top styles. If someone enjoys 50's retro Betty Page style clothes I totally get that, or 70's hippie style, or ....or....or even something that no one else has even worn.

But among transwomen there is a disproportionately large number of badly dressed persons. I have a friend who always wears clothes that are overly cutsie, shepherdess kind of cutsie which, with respect don't work on an almost 60 years old. Some of my other friends dress way too young (for instance if you are over 50 you should not go shorter than one hand width above the knee with dresses and skirts), wear tight fitting clothes with no waist that make them look like a slab. And if you don't have a partner or friend who checks you it seems to be so easy to slip in no time into a way of dressing that dresses your fantasy rather than your body as it is today.

The strangest thing is, that if you for the moment ignore the people of wall-mart, looking around and observing women, especially professional women should give you clues, hints as to what is age appropriate, great dress.

The person you describe, Inna, appears to never have found the jump off point from her fantasy of herself as a 24 year old and her life reality. Moreover, and this will raise a huge stink storm and I apologize for that, liking to have the thing down there, going off hormones etc, seems to suggest that those fantasies of herself are very much connected with a sexual element, not necessarily fetishistic, that promotes her as a sexual being with a penis. This person may be gender queer, but certainly not TS.

Transition is one of the most serious undertakings one can embark on in one's life. If it is done with a hope and view achieve sexual satisfaction as the only or primary focus, then it will never work. If you try and overcome your life's problems and challenges other than being caught in the wrong body, then you must fail. Because as we all know, the fundamental configuration of being who you are as a person (not gender or sex) will not change. Apart from becoming whole, I still have the same warts I had before transitioning and the some weaknesses still require effort and work.

Alarming is an understatement, where were the medical professionals for her?

[LeaP]

Moreover, and this will raise a huge stink storm and I apologize for that, liking to have the thing down there, going off hormones etc, seems to suggest that those fantasies of herself are very much connected with a sexual element, not necessarily fetishistic, that promotes her as a sexual being with a penis. This person may be gender queer, but certainly not TS.

I don't think your comment raises any controversy in this instance. It's a really extreme case. Sad.

[Momarie]

Miss Kathryn Martin,

I THANK and think you say what needs to be said.

Not just for Cds, Ts or most especially GG's.... to dress age approriate in public...even if you're just in Walmart!
We are not part of the fantasy that lives within your mirror, we see you exactly for what you are.

So be pretty....yet practical.

[Traci Elizabeth]

I hope we are not saying for example, that wearing tops that show cleavage is inappropriate for "mature" women. If it is, then I must dress inappropriately. I show cleavage because I like my my womanhood and the body that I have - well except for that one mistake that is being corrected on October 11th.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Miss Kathryn Martin,

I THANK and think you say what needs to be said.

Not just for Cds, Ts or most especially GG's.... to dress age approriate in public...even if you're just in Walmart!
We are not part of the fantasy that lives within your mirror, we see you exactly for what you are.

So be pretty....yet practical.

Amen!! Amen!! Amen!!!!!!!!

[Momarie]

I hope we are not saying for example, that wearing tops that show cleavage is inappropriate for "mature" women. If it is, then I must dress inappropriately. I show cleavage because I like my my womanhood and the body that I have - well except for that one mistake that is being corrected on October 11th.

Your safe sweetheart,

And we celebrate your lovely cleavage.

Hugs and sweet kisses,

[Momarie]

Amen!! Amen!! Amen!!!!!!!!

I wuv you sooooooo much!!!

[Jorja]

I do not feel that the person in the OP is TS. That is evident by thier own statement "she likes the thing down there". I totally agree with Kathryn Martin, this person is dressing inappropriately unless their life is a halloween party.

Traci, there is nothing wrong with showing a bit of clevage but remember, that can be overdone too. I am sure you don't want to send out the wrong signals.

[Bree-asaurus]

Having a horrible sense of style wouldn't mean 'not TS' but the fact that he likes his dangle and didn't like how HRT made him feel are huge red flags and put the plastic kinky cloths into perspective.

I hope he figures things out... but this is one of those times where someone totally avoided professional help when they probably needed it than most.

[arbon]

Alarming is an understatement, where were the medical professionals for her?

She is not seeking GRS, and she is not on HRT anymore. When she was, well it is not that hard to do on your own,maybe she went that route. I don't think there are any screening requirements for FFS or breast surgery.

Everything probably is done on her own, which is really fine, its her life, her body and her responsibility.

[ReneeT]

This thread brings to mind two streams of thought. First, about presentation. I see a common theme among trans people, from cd to gq to ts, of initially presenting oneself in our own idealized sense of femininity. This include ultra high heels ( gosh, i love them, but they just dont work on this 5'10" 47 yo gal!), short skirts, heavy make up, yada yada yada. We are so focused on presenting our/ the medias caricature of what a woman should look like that we end up looking like anything but a typical woman. To add to this, we most often have no one to put the brakes on for us. How. Many of you who have daughters have ever said to yours, "you are NOT leaving the house looking like THAT!"? I sure have! But we dont get that. What we get is "girlfriend, you look hot! Those are killer heels!". We as a group tend to reinforce bad habits in each other. Over time, though, i think we do mature and find that presenting to fit in works well for us, just as it did in guy mode. Its all a learning process, and we have a lot of catching up to do.

My secondstream of thought has to do with the person in question's reaction to hrt. Not feeling "comfortable" on hrt is as much evidence as you will ever find that this person is not trans. S/he will be one of the 3%.

[LynLovely]

I think I understand what you are saying but I don't want to misrepresent myself or you as this is new to me. I'm 61 and I am not a CD even though I wear a lot of "women's wear", nothing that causes discomfort to myself or those presented with my image, but rather something that fits my tastes and comfort which happens to be female clothing.
Here is my question to you more experienced girls, experience being aware of various incroguencies between your mind and your body, when did you know? That is, for sure know that it was a quality of life question that could not be answered any other way?
I think we all know of or experienced "roid rage", at least I have. In my middle 50's after a series of hospitalizations my "Test" levels were high for a healthy 20 year old male. This at a time when I was calming my fears, hostility, paranoia, and rage and I can only wonder high it was in my 20's when I was out of control and truthfully I'm here today because of divine intervention. Nothing else.
The reason I bring up what must have been high "test" levels in my youth is that that hormone affected my body very little. I have people reconize me today that I haven't seen in 45 years (before puberty) my face couldn't have changed much. It never gave me muscle mass and I tried to muscle up, nor did it really give me a desire for girls (men for that matter that I remember) but it seemed to affect my brain mostly.
If it wasn't for my earliest memories and a image, I'd think I was nuts and drink myself into oblivion. But I can't logically explain that image away, nor the changes after puberty that seemed to occur in my brain only and I'm driven at this late stage in life to seek truth. To put to rest the war between my brain and my mind for all time.
Personally I think transition is the only avenue left but I am open to other options as well if presented.
Monday I have an appointment with my GP and on the advice of my therapist will seek a reccomendation for a endocrinologist for HRT. The very least I seek is my mind back.
I guess in a way I hi-jacked this thread and I'm sorry for doing so, but this paragraph from Kathryn kind of sums up my life. I seriously have hopes that less "Test" and more "Est" will help restore some balance that brings with it clarity and focus. You see that is one problem I am not the same person before and after puberty even though my body changed little.
To be honest I am tired of being constantly at war within myself and with the world at large. Peace is what I seek.
With all the Love I have
-Lyn

Transition is one of the most serious undertakings one can embark on in one's life. If it is done with a hope and view achieve sexual satisfaction as the only or primary focus, then it will never work. If you try and overcome your life's problems and challenges other than being caught in the wrong body, then you must fail. Because as we all know, the fundamental configuration of being who you are as a person (not gender or sex) will not change. Apart from becoming whole, I still have the same warts I had before transitioning and the some weaknesses still require effort and work

[KellyJameson]

Hi Inna

One of the added burdens I believe for transsexuals is if they have a history of sexual abuse as children and I have found many do and I have wondered if the same biological forces that create GID also make them more attractive to sexual predators who are attracted to feminine looking/ acting boys because they sense the female within.

Being violated in this fashion sometimes sets the child up as an adult to associate
being sexually desired with being loved (Love equals being valued/wanted as a human being not as an object for someones pleasure)

They relentlessly search for new partners desperately seaching for love to undo the damage to self by the earlier abuse but they pay for love with sex so become trapped in a paradox of using the very same thing to get the love that was stolen from them by the original abuse. This trap is very common to women who have been sexually abused as children.

They drink the poison to cure themselves from the effects of the poison so never heal.

I believe sexual abuse in a TS is often expressed in the ways GG's
act who have been sexually abused as children, the patterns of behavior are often incredibly similar.

In my opinion before someone thinks about transition they must confront any possibilty of child abuse, sexual or otherwise because the combination of GID and child abuse is deadly to the extreme, it is so difficult to survive each by themselves but combined almost impossible.

I believe the person you met was a victim of sexual abuse as a child.

[Nicole Erin]

Ehh let someone dress how they want. There are a lot of people out there who try to show off what they don't have.


Not just for Cds, Ts or most especially GG's.... to dress age approriate in public...even if you're just in Walmart! We are not part of the fantasy that lives within your mirror, we see you exactly for what you are.

So be pretty....yet practical.
Makes sense but what about the GG's in walmart or in public who are fat and have cellulite yet insist on wearing shorts that would make Daisy Duke blush?

[ReineD]

There are two separate things at play here, her manner of dress and her surgeries.

Has anyone seen the show, "What Not To Wear"? There are many people who just don't know how to dress, whether it is a man who dresses in a slovenly manner, or an older woman who tries to look young but ends up looking like a tart. We all have a different aesthetic and not everyone's personal tastes appeal to the majority, whether female, male, or trans. Surely we all know cisgenders who dress badly and whose unconventional tastes also spill out all over their homes? My point is, your friend may think that the clothes she wears are beautiful. Or, she may be on a limited budget. Maybe she thinks that her clothes are the epitome of femininity. Maybe she could use the tactful advice of a good friend.

As to the body modifications with no plans for SRS, it does sound as if she doesn't fit into the gender binary. She's not happy looking like a man, yet she wouldn't be happy being a woman either, without her male anatomy. I dare say there are many bigenders who would love nothing more than to alter their bodies sufficiently to make themselves feel comfortable, but who don't because they know the world is not ready to accept a person who has both male and female characteristics.

This is just an opinion based on your description of this person.

[Xrys]

I think that another contributing factor are the TS that get the most coverage in the media, Amanda Lepour in particular, that present am extreme characture of femininity. The second most encountered representation of TS is found in pornography. This too is filled with overly exagurated feminine features that do not create a healthy image of what a real TS is. I feel these factors create a image of transexuality based on fetishistic fantasy, and has no basis on reality.

Also, I have also come to realize that there are people who just simply take things to drastic extremes. There are some people who are never satisfied with their apearance. There are some people who will never reach the point where they have had enough. It is a sad ocurance that these people can never accept certain parts of them selves, or are so deep in their own delusions that they are never satisfied. But some people become addicted to having plastic surgery like others get addicted to alchohol. There are concequences to rushing into things too quickly before doing proper research, and recieving the proper help, and it is disheartening that there are people in this world who suffer from those concequinces. That is why it is so necessary to understand ourselves before we start changing ourselves.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I like Reine's answer a lot...this is not rocket science...

I don't see a guy getting breasts and cheeks and whatever else he wants to be much different than some of those crazy tatoos and piercings...some people like that stuff...and as xrys says, some take it to extremes
and just like those folks, a painted body with 100 piercings is probably more attractive on 25 yr old body builder vs a guy in his 60's or 70's trying to stay young...

people dress for fetish reasons, people go out to be looked at

...i hope this person can be ok..the OP is not a criticism...just a word of caution that there are consequences to behaviour and decisions

We've had a couple threads on the image of ts's...porno, the cake boss thing...i don't think any of it matters...we freak people out...gender is deeply ingrained in our humanity...otherwise we wouldn't suffer so terribly!!!!!!!!!!!....
pornos, fetishes, rupaul's drag race and carmen carrera are not the problem...if none of them existed, we would be in the exact same place...marginalized and dehumanized because we don't make sense to people

Building up your network of friends and supporters is key to a good quality of life, and not sweating the bs (like cake boss) too much can keep you sane....personal relationships with people are fulfilling and affirming, but we are never going to get affirmations from the general population or media....

[Inna]

Hi Inna

One of the added burdens I believe for transsexuals is if they have a history of sexual abuse as children and I have found many do and I have wondered if the same biological forces that create GID also make them more attractive to sexual predators who are attracted to feminine looking/ acting boys because they sense the female within.

Being violated in this fashion sometimes sets the child up as an adult to associate
being sexually desired with being loved (Love equals being valued/wanted as a human being not as an object for someones pleasure)

They relentlessly search for new partners desperately seaching for love to undo the damage to self by the earlier abuse but they pay for love with sex so become trapped in a paradox of using the very same thing to get the love that was stolen from them by the original abuse. This trap is very common to women who have been sexually abused as children.

They drink the poison to cure themselves from the effects of the poison so never heal.

I believe sexual abuse in a TS is often expressed in the ways GG's
act who have been sexually abused as children, the patterns of behavior are often incredibly similar.

In my opinion before someone thinks about transition they must confront any possibility of child abuse, sexual or otherwise because the combination of GID and child abuse is deadly to the extreme, it is so difficult to survive each by themselves but combined almost impossible.

I believe the person you met was a victim of sexual abuse as a child.

Hi Kelly, I value any research that enables further knowledge of how things work, however, my personal take on story at hand is that for most, Transsexuals are born trans, with opposite brain gender, it is their inability to adjust those inherent differences into one cohesive core, and so they show developmental hiccups along their growth. Sexual abuse does not produce gender dysphoria but it may develop hate and regret towards sexuality or specifically the preference of sexual partner. I had a privilege to meet a girl who was lesbian because of her sexual abuse in her childhood. Being violated by a man produced adversity towards sex with male partner, as she put it, she felt dirty. Poor kid, and so are countless victims of this most gruesome of acts.

So in a nut shell, I don't support the notion that sexual abuse can lead to TS because of the discoveries of embryonic development and gender mechanics. Although still in process of discovery, much is supporting the Brain Gender theory!

[KellyJameson]

Hi Inna

I completely agree, I think it is impossible for life experiences to create TS.

You gave an excellant example of the paradox with your example of the woman who was lesbian because of sexual abuse and rejected men and turned to women because she felt dirty.

Many women are sexually abused by men but most do not reject sexual relations with them and turn toward women because they would have to be born with this
capacity.

Among CD's I'm left with the impression that many wifes cannot be sexual with them when they appear as woman.

In my own case my childhood felt like abuse and I entered my twenties with PTSD that was slowly resolved by a wise therapist that was familar with GIDRA and approached my therapy with the harm done to me by the supression of my true gender.

My own life experience has left me with the impression that because we are born TS it is impossible not to be harmed psychologically by the binary world we are born into and than the binary world labels the harm done to us as the reason for our sickness which they call the illusion of being transsexual.

In my opinion everyone on the LGBT spectrum was born this way. Life experiences and circumstances may limit the natural expression of who we were born to be but that does not change the fact of the "being"

Sorry if my earlier words caused confusion, I absolutely do not want my words to ever be interpreted as implying or stating that TS is created because this is exactly opposite what I strongly believe and have fought for in my life.

Psychologically I have paid a very high price because of how I have been treated because of who I am and I would never want to reproduce that pain in another.

[ColleenA]

In my opinion everyone on the LGBT spectrum was born this way. ... Sorry if my earlier words caused confusion, I absolutely do not want my words to ever be interpreted as implying or stating that TS is created because this is exactly opposite what I strongly believe and have fought for in my life.

Kelly, I didn't see anything in your post indicating you thought any factors in the "nurture" column could create a TS.

I wanted to comment on a different statement from that post, however:


... I have wondered if the same biological forces that create GID also make (transsexuals) more attractive to sexual predators who are attracted to feminine looking/ acting boys because they sense the female within.

Given all that society has learned over the past few decades about the sexual abuse of all children, regardless of their gender, I would be rather shocked if any serial molester has left a wake of primarily TS victims. I expect they are far more concerned with finding opportunities to prey and then conceal than with being overly selective about who they prey on.

[KellyJameson]

Hi Collena

An experience that I have shared with many TG friends was a rejection by family and community for not being cisgendered so I could not "fit" into the roles others adopted so easily.

Rejection has an isolating effect that can make you more vulnerable to being targeted for abuse so abuse feeds on abuse.

It can also create a longing to be loved, acknowledged and accepted that opens you up to emotional manipulation possibly leading to sexual exploitation.

Those born TG may be at higher risk because they do not have the same protections
that cisgendered children have. It is only an opinion at this time from personal experience because I have never had a TG friend who did not experience some form of abuse in childhood. Are those I know and have known representative of the majority? I have no way of knowing.

What concerns me are the psychiatrists I have known who do not support and actively work against a persons legal right to transition because they think childhood events create the need to transition. They have it backwards in my opinion, the events happened because the child was TG.

Sorry for taking the thread off topic. Kelly

[ReineD]

I like Reine's answer a lot...this is not rocket science...

... people dress for fetish reasons, people go out to be looked at


I don't know if you felt I was saying that people who want to modify their bodies without having SRS are doing this for fetish. I just want to clarify there are people who feel or identify as someone who is not purely a man, or purely a woman, and it isn't fetish for them. They're in that very vast gray area that is "somewhere between the genders". They really are their own gender and they have their own set of challenges. TSs face bigotry for having been (in other people's eyes) men, who decided to "switch" genders. Hence the need to be stealth for many people. Non-binary transpersons face bigotry for both: not fitting into a world that cannot understand people with mixed gender characteristics AND a perception that they're altering their birth genders.

[celeste26]

Having the money handy to perform all those surgeries was the downfall for this person, transitions take time and it is obvious that person never took the time to wait and allow things to happen according to a more natural pace. This is sad.

[LisaMallon]

Yes I overall agree with everyone here, but, trying to be kind, don't forget the "16 year old syndrome".

Some do go through a stage bit like another adolescence, being a bit wild and crazy. Hopefully not for too long and without any long term damage.

The hormones are a worry of course, she should have tried other doses (etc) before giving them up.
It is fairly common that it can take a bit of fiddling around to get the right regime for each person.

Some people of course have medical conditions that preclude them (my great fear) or might just have some sort of other incompatibilties.
But trying out all the alternatives would be highly recommended.

I don't know, I am always loathe to condemn anyone without knowing all the facts and the full history. Just hope she gets her head together sometime and finds a bit of peace with herself.

I've heard some bad stories, such as self medicating with hormones (nearly always ends in tears that one), drug usage, very damaging behaviour, etc.

I don't have any problems with people going through a bit of (for example) sexual experimentation (anything but) for a while (both pre and post physical transition), after all that is all part of learning about yourself.

I do get concerned for those who 'fall off the tree' so to speak.
Hopefully I wont be one. We don't get an easy time we lot.
And all the more reason to stick together and support each other (along with our 'cousins', as I think of the strongly CD community).

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I don't know if you felt I was saying that people who want to modify their bodies without having SRS are doing this for fetish. I just want to clarify there are people who feel or identify as someone who is not purely a man, or purely a woman, and it isn't fetish for them. They're in that very vast gray area that is "somewhere between the genders". They really are their own gender and they have their own set of challenges. TSs face bigotry for having been (in other people's eyes) men, who decided to "switch" genders. Hence the need to be stealth for many people. Non-binary transpersons face bigotry for both: not fitting into a world that cannot understand people with mixed gender characteristics AND a perception that they're altering their birth genders.

I was looking at how she(he?) was dressed..plasticwear is almost always fetishwear.....i compared the body modifications to piercings and tattooes... people that put horns in their head say they do it because it expresses who they are...

like i said, people do things for lots of reasons

This person is hopefully expressing who they are...thats what i thought you were getting at..basically a non gender binary person that had some plastic surgery that goes out in fetishwear...ie not rocket science

If they did a poor job expressing themselves, and they feel bitter, that is clearly a consequence of actions which was what OP was about...
I can imagine that her quality of life is compromised by her decision based on the OP..
I can also imagine a person that views themselves as male and female would feel tortured if they had an inability to express either side! that is hard for me to relate to given my issues, but i can understand going to far and losing your maleness

[SandraAbsent]

From the original post:

She went on to self medicate and order all the surgeries without once stepping into therapist office.

I think this is the key statement here. The unfortunate thing is that there is and always will be access to self medication, there will always be a doctor who will perform the surgery, there will always be someone to cheer lead others into transition when they are not ready for or require it, and there will always be a painful soul who will follow this path.

I preach all the time to friends I have in the trans community, friends in the gay community, and anyone who will listen about the negative impact that some peoples presentation and behavior have on those of us that not only seek true legitimacy, but require it. This is just another example, not only on this individuals part, but those involved in enabling such behavior ie. the company that sold her the meds, the doctor that allowed the surgeries void of the standards of care, and the people around this individual that encouraged it. I am admittedly a bit of a trans separatist for this reason. Many of us seek survival, and sometimes I feel that some fetishists, some drag queens, and some crossdressers behaviors serve to de-legitimize what those of us struggling to survive require for our very existence. Unfortunately there are always a handful of people out there that will support it.

I feel sorry for this individual. Some very painful decisions have been made with extremely high consequences. Sometimes support within the trans community involves the word "NO." A word someone should have told this individual. Ya know sometimes being honest with someone prevents as much pain, depression, and maybe even suicide as encourageing them to feel free to express themselves.

[ReineD]

If they did a poor job expressing themselves, and they feel bitter, that is clearly a consequence of actions which was what OP was about...
I can imagine that her quality of life is compromised by her decision based on the OP..

I'll agree with you there. Our world is hopelessly ignorant of people who fall in the netherworld of having an in-between-gender identity. Even people who are in this mindset I suspect feel as if they must choose one gender over the other, since our society does not provide other options.

There is a greater acceptance of physical evidence that something is naturally outside the norm (for example being unable to work because someone is receiving chemo therapy vs. going through a debilitating depression). You know, the idea that if you can't see it then it doesn't exist. Likewise, I think that people can more easily understand someone who is intersex (there is physical evidence), than someone who is intergender (to use a comparative term).

Although the concept of a third gender has been accepted in some cultures (hijras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_%28South_Asia%29), kathoeys (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey), fa'afafines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fa%27afafine), berdaches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit), etc) it is not easily understood here. Someone who experiences a mixture of characteristics has a much better chance of survival if they play by current western societal rules, which is to do their best to find a balance between expressing their femininity at times (but not in their own backyards), while retaining the ability to revert to guy mode for work, family, and friends. If they make the mistake of physically altering themselves but they don't go all the way, they will be outcasts in both the TS community and among cisgenders. But here's the thing: these people would be no happier living life strictly as a woman (through SRS) as they are living life fully as a man. It's just a very difficult position to be in (IMO), and it explains many of our members here who call themselves "TG" specifically because they don't identify with "CD" or "TS".

I don't know if the person Inna wrote about is a TS who hasn't realized it yet, or someone who is in-between. I was going by the statement that she is searching for balance and does not wish to have SRS.

[NCAmazon]

Interesting Thread,

The OP never described what comments caused the TG Fetish type dresser to become sad. I've seen GG women who were dressed inappropriate for their age get nasty comments and they get upset. So this may be no different. Man or woman. Maybe she wanted to feel sexy and be appreciated and when they got nasty comments it hurt that goal.

A gender therapist won't give this person the answer. At least the one's I paid did not!! Some people can go through their whole life in the maybe TS maybe not mindset or as Reine said Bi Gender.

But a problem a lot of TS out there seem to want to push people in this boat to give an answer on the spot, are they TS or not? Are they in denial? etc etc.. I've had this happen to me a few times at different group meetings and outings. I learned to deflect off that question. Not all but there are some like this who confuse these inbetween people even more.

But many TS people are cool with whatever floats your boat and take your own time none of my business attitude.

Plus when the person said they didn't like how HRT felt and they never saw a therapist could mean they got it through non legal medical means. This could mean they got poor quality hormones, or inappropriate doses, unmonitored T and estrogen levels etc etc.. So The way they say they felt on HRT is not a good indicator.

[Aprilrain]

could mean they got it through non legal medical means.

I'm not even sure "non legal" is a definable term. Did you mean illegal? If you are talking about M2F hormones then it isn't "non legal" to order off the internet. It is a legal grey area, not illegal.