How would you answer?

[Nigella]

Next week I shall be having my first psychiatric review to ascertain whether I am ready for referral for SRS. As you do, I looked at my journey through the medical side of my transition, that is to say whilst under the care of the GIC. It has been a smooth journey with just a short delay in starting hormones due to a few minor medical issues.

Throughout the process there have been various forms, questionairs etc to fill in, one of which asked this question ...

"how long have you lived in role?"

I found this to be a rather improper question to ask someone in our situation. It is not as if I am playing at being a woman, I am a woman.

What are your thoughts?

[Kathryn Martin]

Obviously they want to know how long you have benn in RLE. I think the best answer is the question: "what role?"
Next week I shall be having my first psychiatric review to ascertain whether I am ready for referral for SRS. As you do, I looked at my journey through the medical side of my transition, that is to say whilst under the care of the GIC. It has been a smooth journey with just a short delay in starting hormones due to a few minor medical issues.

Throughout the process there have been various forms, questionairs etc to fill in, one of which asked this question ...

"how long have you lived in role?"

I found this to be a rather improper question to ask someone in our situation. It is not as if I am playing at being a woman, I am a woman.

What are your thoughts?

[kellycan27]

Next week I shall be having my first psychiatric review to ascertain whether I am ready for referral for SRS. As you do, I looked at my journey through the medical side of my transition, that is to say whilst under the care of the GIC. It has been a smooth journey with just a short delay in starting hormones due to a few minor medical issues.

Throughout the process there have been various forms, questionairs etc to fill in, one of which asked this question ...

"how long have you lived in role?"

I found this to be a rather improper question to ask someone in our situation. It is not as if I am playing at being a woman, I am a woman.

What are your thoughts?

Do you think that your GIC believes that you are role playing, or perhaps she just worded her question poorly? The question seems to be... How long have you been living your RLE? I think that the actual question is appropriate in helping her to evaluate your readiness to proceed. You could take it as..... How long have you been living your role as a woman. Someone's "role" can be one's path in life, and not just an "act". Semantics?

[Traci Elizabeth]

Are you a member of the actor's guild? If not than how can you be "playing" a role. It should be long long have you lived as a woman in society external to yourself?

[Nigella]

OK just to clarify a point, I have been showing the true me for about 7 years now, before that I was hidden, I have been attending the GIC for a little under 2 years, so the question was not aimed at me specifically but is a general question asked of all who attend the clinic, I just found the question ODD to be asked by a set of professionals who are supposed to know about the transgender issues, surely they would understand that WE do not see ourselves as "fulfilling a role".

My opinion of the question has been communicated to the team and I have suggested that it is rephrased to read

"How long have you been living as a woman" or for the transmen "man"

[Frances]

Gender role is an often used term to differentiate men and women in society. The person is only asking how long you have been full-time.

[kellycan27]

OK just to clarify a point, I have been showing the true me for about 7 years now, before that I was hidden, I have been attending the GIC for a little under 2 years, so the question was not aimed at me specifically but is a general question asked of all who attend the clinic, I just found the question ODD to be asked by a set of professionals who are supposed to know about the transgender issues, surely they would understand that WE do not see ourselves as "fulfilling a role".

My opinion of the question has been communicated to the team and I have suggested that it is rephrased to read

"How long have you been living as a woman" or for the transmen "man"

Really? I see myself fulfilling the role of wife and mother. I am a wife and I am a mother, I am not "acting". Your suggesting that it be changed is very good, but still I don't see why someone would find the way in which the original question was posed as being offensive. One definition of act is the "process of doing" Acting like a mother is the process of doing what mothers do. Acting like a wife is the process of doing what wives do.

[WifeofWrenchette]

I would then write that you have been "showing the true me for 7 years now" Nigella.

[MAJESTYK]

I understand what they meant but, it is odd the use of the word "role" from a supposed professional.... Hmm. I do believe they should have phrased it differently as you said Nigella.

[Rianna Humble]

If you read the Standards of Care - whether v6 or the newer v7, they talk about Gender Role and specifically define transsexual as
a person who aspired to or actually lived in the anatomically contrary gender role

Given that your GIC adheres to the Standards of Care, it is not at all untoward for them to ask about living in role. The only suitable clarification IMNSHO would be to rephrase it as "how long have you lived in the anatomically contrary gender role?"

In the context of preparing for surgery, the SoC says
Meeting readiness criteria -- further consolidation of the evolving gender identity or improving mental health in the new or confirmed gender role -- is more complicated, because it rests upon the clinician's and the patient’s judgment.

In neither of these excerpts is there any suggestion of play-acting. The term seems to me to refer more to the concept of "role in life" than anything to do with simulacre.

[kellycan27]

I understand what they meant but, it is odd the use of the word "role" from a supposed professional.... Hmm. I do believe they should have phrased it differently as you said Nigella.

1. acting part: an individual part in a play, movie, opera, or other performance

2. specific function: the usual or expected function of somebody or something, or the part somebody or something plays in an action or event

3. part played in social context: the part played by somebody in a given social context, with any characteristic or expected pattern of behavior that it entails

As you can see.. there are different definitions of the word "ROLE". The definition changes in how it's used in context. If people can see their way past looking at the word role as in something that an "actor" does, it wouldn't be "odd" at all for a professional to use. Number 2 is a good descriptive in this situation, and number 3 might even be better.

I play the guitar. Playing in this instance is the act.. act meaning "process of doing" I am in the process of playing the guitar, not pretending to be a guitarist.

[Nicole Erin]

I would just be like, "gurl, I have been tranny'ing full time for almost two years! Then I would get up and start singing "It's raining men"

For the acting part, I have done that almost a year. Not RLE acting but at my job, I act like I am working and every other week they act like they are paying me.

You think the question of "how long in role" is bad, but it isn't. Gyod, what about in the CD section where they talk about when they became full time panty wearers? I mean jeeze...

[Krististeph]

The first answer is usually the best. State exactly what you said here. But have a backup answer ready- and perhaps even a third answer from a different perspective.

If it were me (and i am no pro at this-) I would worry that a less than fully committed answer might dash the approval- but a real answer will honestly always be fraught with concern0 it shows you are looking at the idea from many points instead of one.

Ans:

My role, as a public female, well xx years and such. But i know i will never be a female as girls raised from infancy are. I will always be a TG with SRS... and maybe while i cannot be the full female from childhood, this is what I am, I understand it, and that is as much as can be expected, unfortunately for me. I have lived int he role of a TG for decades, that's a lot harder than living as a female for a year. And I have done exceptionally well at it- tons of friends- i help other just learning about themselves... yadda yadda...

I understand the real deal is the journey- not the destination. I'll always be transitioning- whether i have testes or a vagina... it is what i am, and i have accepted it, and heck, it offers me a hell of a wider view of life than a simple black and white hetero mindset...

Hope this helps- be strong- you seem a bit defensive at the question- for obvious reasons. take the reins- every time i do this in an interview i get the job- i've worked in over 6 differnt industries and have become a leader in 5 of them... and forthright honesty is a big player.

If nothing else- go grab a second counselor- and bend his/her ear for an hour on the subject- it will give you excellent new insights- and the counselor will be engaged as this is not the typical thing they get asked... Cheap investment if you ask me- this is what people do at the masters or doctorate candidate level- and you are at that point with regard to CD/TG...

Don't get upset by the 'improperness' of it, but do discuss your feeling about it- excellent talking point.

And if you have not figured it out by now- the more you talk with a therapist- the more you open up, the more they are going to be willing to approve anything you want.

that my 2 cents- but please be sure to keep us apprised of the outcome... Thanks czarina!

[MC-lite]

IMHO the question is not improper,as much as it might be worded poorly / differently. I think that they want to know how long you've been living real-life as a woman.

Might I venture a guess that the wording of the question is UK english?

I like the suggestion that you should talk about it with your therapist, just to make sure that you answer it without appearing confrontational or overly defensive.

IMHO that would serve no good purpose. :)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I don't understand what the big deal is..

If the question was how long have you been pretending to be a girl, i'd see the problem...perhaps to make you feel better they could have said "proper" or "correct" role..

[Frances]

I don't understand what the big deal is..

If the question was how long have you been pretending to be a girl, i'd see the problem...perhaps to make you feel better they could have said "proper" or "correct" role..

I don't get it either. The psychiatrist is evaluating the OP's readiness for SRS. The SoC have some requirements like a certain period of living full-time in the desired gender role. Those are the terms used in psychiatry, just like most psychiatric programs will also use the masculine until you have SRS. If the OP is that close to SRS, how can the terminology and line of questioning be surprising?

[Sandra]

Right some of you still don't seem to understand.

This was asked in a questionnaire when Nigella first went to the gender clinic after her first appointment. She has not been asked it since. Heck even the clinical nurse who we see each time said it could have been worded differently.

I guess that some haven't followed Nigella's transition, so I'll fill you in read this. (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?170662-Progress)

[kellycan27]

i don't think the problem was with what the op was asked, but more.. HOW she was asked.

[Bree-asaurus]

i don't think the problem was with what the op was asked, but more.. HOW she was asked.

Yeah... we know exactly what they're asking... they're just using the wrong words.

I would simply scratch out "in role" and write in "as your true self"...

"How long have you lived [-]in role?[/-] as your true self?"

[Frances]

I still think there was nothing wrong with the question or the words used. The answer is a number of months or years.

[Bree-asaurus]

I still think there was nothing wrong with the question or the words used. The answer is a number of months or years.

I guess for me personally, I've always described my pre-acceptance years as "playing a role" so... I just have one of those irrational biases against using the word role to describe me simply living my life.

It's silly, I know...

[Persephone]

Why not look at a psychological definition of the term?

2. (Psychology) Psychol the part played by a person in a particular social setting, influenced by his expectation of what is appropriate

So, unless you want to take exception to the generic use of the word "his" in the above definition (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/role), then the question as asked is meaningful and appropriate. You might point out to the doctor, though, that the common use of the term may make it confusing to trans folk.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[kellycan27]

Yeah... we know exactly what they're asking... they're just using the wrong words.

I would simply scratch out "in role" and write in "as your true self"...

"How long have you lived [-]in role?[/-] as your true self?"

Actually.. the wording wasn't "wrong"... The OP just wished that it had been worded "differently". tomato ..tamato.

[Bree-asaurus]

Actually.. the wording wasn't "wrong"... The OP just wished that it had been worded "differently". tomato ..tamato.

Well, doing a quick Google search myself, it depends on what definition of the word you are referring to... Looks like many definitions state that a role is "playing a part accepted by society" or something like that... which is what I WAS doing before.

There is no right or wrong here...

[kellycan27]

Well, doing a quick Google search myself, it depends on what definition of the word you are referring to... Looks like many definitions state that a role is "playing a part accepted by society" or something like that... which is what I WAS doing before.

There is no right or wrong here...

Yeah.. The cool thing about words that have multiple definitions.. we can choose the one that has the highest "martyr potential" to be offended by. :heehee:

[Bree-asaurus]

Yeah.. The cool thing about words that have multiple definitions.. we can choose the one that has the highest "martyr potential" to be offended by. :heehee:

yes, because that's what everyone is doing... /sarcasm

and the cool thing about opinions is anyone can start a fuss about anyone else's, right kelly?

[kellycan27]

yes, because that's what everyone is doing... /sarcasm

and the cool thing about opinions is anyone can start a fuss about anyone else's, right kelly?

It was a joke.. I apologize if I offended you.. that wasn't my intention.

[Bree-asaurus]

It was a joke.. I apologize if I offended you.. that wasn't my intention.

Didn't offend me... Just made my eyes roll a few times... lol

[Nigella]

As has been stated, there is no right or wrong to this, It is very much down to how each individual interprets the word "Role". We all read different meanings into words, personally I was not offended by the wording, just surprised at it. My opinion of the word role, in the context I saw was to play a part.

I can't even remember how I responded to the question, it certainly has had no impact on my care. I just wondered how others saw the wording, it has certainly been a varied response.

[kimdl93]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. While perhaps a poor choice of words, the question probably is well intentioned.

[Frances]

It is very much down to how each individual interprets the word "Role".

No, it's not. It is down to how the professional evaluating the patient uses the word and the meaning he ascribes to it. I recommend reading the SoC and doing a search for the word "role." You will amazed at how many times it comes up in the expression "gender role" and by itself with the same meaning.

[Nigella]

The SoC is different in each country Frances and even the clinical specialist I see said that it is worded poorly. How the question is interpreted has nothing to do with SoC, the professional evaluating or even the person who drew up the question, it down to the person answering the question at the time.

[Frances]

The SoC is different in each country Frances and even the clinical specialist I see said that it is worded poorly. How the question is interpreted has nothing to do with SoC, the professional evaluating or even the person who drew up the question, it down to the person answering the question at the time.

The SoC are prepared by the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) and are universal, Nigella.

[Nigella]

But that is not THE BIBLE when it comes to the clinical care of transgendered people, it is a set of guidelines that are not set in stone.

[Eryn]

Nigella, both you and the practitioner know what the question actually is asking, and nit-picking over a word isn't going to improve your situation. Language will always be an imperfect tool, particularly when used in situations for which it was not designed.

For a TS, the question "How long have you been a woman" would probably be answered "From conception." The question they are actually asking in this case is "How long have you been living full-time presenting as your preferred gender?" which is both cumbersome and itself subject to nit-picking: "What do you mean 'preferred?' I don't have a choice!..."

[Bree-asaurus]

Nigella, both you and the practitioner know what the question actually is asking, and nit-picking over a word isn't going to improve your situation. Language will always be an imperfect tool, particularly when used in situations for which it was not designed.

For a TS, the question "How long have you been a woman" would probably be answered "From conception." The question they are actually asking in this case is "How long have you been living full-time presenting as your preferred gender?" which is both cumbersome and itself subject to nit-picking: "What do you mean 'preferred?' I don't have a choice!..."

LOL! I decided to live my preferred role as an alive person instead of a dead person!