Opened up tp a few. Both GG's said to just stop it.

[Alice Torn]

In the last few weeks, I decided to open up to two more women i have been talking to a long tome, one, 30 years. Both were shocked. Both said it was wrong, and one said to throw the dress away. That God hates it, and I was born to be a man, not a woman. I am saddened that they have no desire to understand. My mom died yesterday, and I am feeling a bit low, but mostly about the hostility my friends have toward any dressing. I don't see most of society or religious people EVER accepting.

[Voulez-Vous]

I don't see most of society or religious people EVER accepting.

Then WHY are you telling them?

[Alice Torn]

Sometimes, i feel i just have to open up, and let the chips fall where they may. This forum is my only support.

[Bree-asaurus]

Sometimes, i feel i just have to open up, and let the chips fall where they may. This forum is my only support.

I'm sorry to hear about your mom :(

See if you can find some local support groups (and from there, a recommendation for a good therapist) if you are in need of help. I may not have been here today had I not found the support I needed.

And right now you are going through a difficult time with the passing of your mom... try not to do anything drastic in other areas in your life (cross dressing, transgender, transsexual, whatever) when you are in such a vulnerable state. One thing at a time. I wish you the best :)

[S. Lisa Smith]

Condolences about your Mom. I know that sometimes you feel like you must tell a certain person, but sometimes you just have to realize that it can just be a bad idea. There were a couple of women I wanted to tell, I didn't and now I'm glad. Long story but to make it short, they were SOs of friends and they broke up with them ugly...

[Wildaboutheels]

Sorry about the loss of your mother.

And no matter how good our friend/s or how long we have known them? It's the same as with a SO in my book. NO ONE can reliably predict how open minded they will be about CDing or any other "charged" topic. Some already have their minds made up and simply won't even consider any discussion on certain matters. Certainly not the type of people I tend to associate with.

I see "society" accepting long before people that are possibly Religious fanatics.

[sterling12]

Very sorry to hear about your mother. In a few weeks or a few months, expect to really be hit with a lot of grieving. If you aren't warned, and prepared for that eventuality, it can take a huge psychological toll, and cause many problems.

I am hopeful you did not bring this subject up at The Hospital, or in relation to some other aspect of your Mother's Death. If these are relatives or people close to your Mother, they would deem it inappropriate, and very bad timing. But, I will assume that didn't happen!

Now something a little more positive. The Importance of telling others about yourself moves forward The Process of helping YOU. No, I would not expect a lot of empathy from people who viewed themselves as fundamentalists, nor would I expect them to be sympathetic. They have The Right to accept or reject your message. But, that doesn't change anything. Do YOU feel better for having unburdened yourself? Did sharing your long-held secret, relieve some of your Angst? It should have! If you let their reactions spoil your effort, then you let them win. If you did The Right Thing, be content with it. Ultimately, all happiness or unhappiness comes from within ourselves, don't fall in to The Trap of allowing others to dictate your own feelings.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Kate Simmons]

Pretty much Alice but I never ask anyone for "permission" (or acceptance) in regard to being who I am. Any one in charge of their own destiny knows what I mean. I simply tell it like it is Hon. If they have a problem with it, it's their problem (and their loss), not mine.:)

[Eryn]

Before opening up to anyone about anything you have to consider if their world-view will allow them to be considerate of you. People with closed minds can be compassionate as long as that which is troubling you falls within the boundaries of what they have been told is acceptable. Outside of that, they will fall back on the simplistic "That is wrong, period!" argument and mentally wash their hands of the situation.

In short, you need to broaden your spectrum of friends.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother. Remember to be good to yourself and concentrate on the good things.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Sorry to hear about your mum Alice - and sorry that the GG's you chose to open up to were not favourably receptive. Unfortunately some people are too ingrained in their beliefs and prejudices to understand another viewpoint.

[Kaz]

Again, so sorry to hear about your mother... I have come close with mine in the last few years, though so far okay...

I just want to reiterate some of the statements here. This site is my support group. The people here are great. I tell no-one, but am prepared to talk about it if they find out. Many people have really ingrained belief systems and you need to identify these before telling anyone. Religion is a big problem because of the extent of potential indoctrination and institutionalisation, but so are other social belief systems. My wife is not particularly religious but her moral code does not accept CD in her life. One of my daughters is more tolerant. I still get bad reactions from people in my professional life discovering I play guitar in a rock band! There is no accounting for where people are going to come from I am afraid.

On a plus note, it makes life interesting, but on the downside, lack of tolerance to diversity is the root of many of the world's problems... historically, things do not look hopeful for a remedy!

[whowhatwhen]

If god exists, I'm sure he or she is more concerned with you being happy and living your life.

Otherwise look at it this way, the amount of people apparently going to hell means our army will not only be much larger, but have much better taste.
*snaps fingers*

[Kaz]

If god exists, I'm sure he or she is more concerned with you being happy and living your life.

Otherwise look at it this way, the amount of people apparently going to hell means our army will not only be much larger, but have much better taste.
*snaps fingers*

Haha! Don't care where I go as long as I get to dress indefinately!

[connie23]

So sorry about your mom. I lost my dad last week and felt the need for all sorts of connections. Please take care of yourself and believe that you are valuable no matter what some closed minded people think. This may not be the time to try to expand the group of people who know about your dressing. Use us to support you, we care and understand.
Love
Connie

[Alice Torn]

Thanks to everyone. Good advice. Sorry Connie about your dad last week. My dad is 91, soon to go. Very difficult man. Yes. i had better cool down the dressing, and just easy does it for a while.I had hoped to venture out soon dressed up. The women i opened up to, are not relatives. Almost all my relatives are dead now. I am a spiritual, semi-religious person, but also a dresser. I am getting to not care so much what others think, but, would never let my brothers, sister, or dad know. I am admitting that i am a bit paranoid, though, and if this town i stay in knew, it could be heap big trouble for me. I would go to another city to go out. There was a time, when i condemned crossdreseers and gays. Sadly, too much hate on both sides.

[Raquel June]

In the last few weeks, I decided to open up to two more women i have been talking to a long tome, one, 30 years. Both were shocked. Both said it was wrong, and one said to throw the dress away. That God hates it, and I was born to be a man, not a woman. I am saddened that they have no desire to understand. My mom died yesterday, and I am feeling a bit low, but mostly about the hostility my friends have toward any dressing. I don't see most of society or religious people EVER accepting.

Sorry it didn't go well, but you told them and you can't un-tell them. So you have to choose to either accept their condemnation and accept them thinking of you as a pervert who is defying God, or you can stand up for yourself. And let me tell you something about women -- they'll respect you a lot more if you stand up for yourself. And they'll be disgusted by you if you don't. I'm not saying to be aggressive with it and put on the dress in front of them. You don't have to even mention it again beyond saying you're not going to apologize for it.

But if they're Christian then you probably want to be clear with them that you're not a pervert. That you're just you. Try to explain it on an emotional level that isn't like an evil animalistic urge.

And you might want to also mention to them that the only part of the Bible condemning crossdressing is in the Old Testament -- which also condemns eating pork, doing anything on Saturday, and being near a woman who is menstruating. The Old Testament also endorses slavery and explains how to hold a guy's wife hostage unless he agrees to be your slave. And it endorses selling your daughters to people. So if they think that's all good advice then by all means they should criticize the way you dress.

And you might want to mention to them that Jesus had no earthly possessions other than a purple dress and some sandals. And Jesus said over and over that we don't have to listen to the laws of the Old Testament. And that the only thing we do have to do is love God and love our neighbor.

I hope these women have long hair, though. Because there are many passages of the Bible saying that it is a disgrace for a woman to have short hair. And many of them are in the New Testament. And they also need to cover there heads when they pray. That is, if they want to be good Christian women.

[Badtranny]

There was a time, when i condemned crossdreseers and gays.

...and what you sow, ye shall reap

[MsJanessa]

You really need to get some friends who are more tolerant and understanding---How in heavens name would she know that "God hates it" Did he tell her?? I can't beleive that God cares one whit about your fashion choices or make up.

[Raquel June]

...and what you sow, ye shall reap

Ouch! We can all change.

[RADER]

Sometimes, i feel i just have to open up, and let the chips fall where they may. This forum is my only support.

Alice; I can understand you wanting to talk to someone. That is what this forum is all about.
Her is a place that similar idea liking people can get together and talk and consoled one another.
I am from Northern Illinois, Not far from Great America Them Park.
PM me if you want to talk or even have a cup of coffee some time.
Rader

[Barbara Ella]

Very sorry to hear about your mom Alice. I know you feel the need to talk with others. Right now, you need to recover from your Mom's passing. give it some time before you decide to open up again. And make sure the people you tell really have a need to know.

Barbara

[giuseppina]

Sorry to hear about your mother, Alice. :sad:

I am not a member of the clergy, but I doubt God cares how you dress, as long as don't dress indecently. I would ignore those women.


...and what you sow, ye shall reap

This is the entirely the wrong time for that grossly insensitive comment. Alice just lost her mother, for heaven's sake!

[Eryn]

This is the entirely the wrong time...

[moderator hat on]

I think that this point has been made sufficiently. Let's get back on topic, please.

Thanks, Eryn

[ronda]

sa far god not liking you in a dress my reply would be god made me this way why would he hate me in a dress i don't hurt anyone i was made in his image I am very sorry to hear about your mother you are in my prayers. Hugs Ronda

[NathalieX66]

The Bible is full of contradictions.
On one hand, in the Old Testament (the pre-Jesus part) is Deuteronomy 22: 5 "A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this".

Then the New Testament (the Jesus part) Matthew 19:12 For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

I respect religion, but I'm as secular as it it gets. I'm also pro equality for all. Peace & love.

[Raquel June]

NathalieX66:

I don't respect religion per se -- but I'm a very friendly atheist :) And my parents are pretty hardcore Born Again types. I'm surprised I've never noticed that verse before.

I'm really depressed that I'll never have kids, and I feel selfish in a way that I'm not pursuing a normal life as a normal guy trying to meet a normal girl. Obviously with my issues that would be unfair to both of us. But I feel bad for my parents that they'll never have any grandkids unless I adopt. They were so happy when I dated a girl for a few months with a 1-year-old.

I think that verse might make them feel a little better.

[Stephanie47]

Alice, sorry to hear of your loss.

As to a person 'outing' themselves, I've lived my cross dressing life on a need to know basis. Nobody needs to know. My wife knows. That's the extent of who knows.

As to the religious outlook on cross dressing, gays and lesbians, and, frankly anyone who does not fit into their little corner of the world, I have found too many Christians are the biggest bunch of two faced people in the world. I have been a deacon and an elder. I am a Christian. My state is known as having the largest 'un-churched' percentage of people in the nation. I consider that an honor. It does not mean a person does not believe in a god or is not a Christian. It just means we have progressed past accepting the slant on everything by the guy in the pulpit.

My religious training/up bringing taught me one and any one sin bought you eternal damnation except for the grace of God. I was taught in God's eye thinking of killing a person was equal to killing a person. If cross dressing is sinful, it is only one of an infinite number of tickets to hell. Since man had to hold a conference long ago to figure out which books were to be in the Bible, I can assume not everything man has written down has been the inspired world of God.

I wouldn't worry too much what the religious angle may be on cross dressing.

[Badtranny]

Ouch! We can all change.

Yes indeed, but the damage has been done. Acceptance by society requires TG people to realize that THEY are part of that society. Karma is brutal teacher and why should a life spent hating be rewarded with acceptance of the very thing you yourself condemned?

I understand the OP lost her mother but, this thread is about an un-accepting society, not the unfortunate passing of her mother. Besides, my comment was not personal, it was directed at the entire board and those that are guilty of the same offense.

[Joanne f]

Sorry to hear about your mother, is it possible that they see the dressing as some sort of consequence of your mother passing away and not a thing that is part of you .

[BRANDYJ]

In the last few weeks, I decided to open up to two more women i have been talking to a long tome, one, 30 years. Both were shocked. Both said it was wrong, and one said to throw the dress away. That God hates it, and I was born to be a man, not a woman. I am saddened that they have no desire to understand. I don't see most of society or religious people EVER accepting.

Gee, I never thought that God or Jesus Christ ever hated anyone. But all I see in all organized religions is hate. I made the mistake of telling my brother a few years back. He basically said he can't have this in his life. So for over 4 years we had no contact. He is one of those so called born again Christians that lost reality with facts and common sense and is ruled by his religious brainwashing and beliefs. Very recently, we made contact and are brothers again. But he knows better then to mention his church and religion to me. And I know better then to trust him with secrets and personal beliefs. He is the only person that reacted badly to my telling them, and I have told no less then a dozen friends, mostly females and of course my SO and past wives. I tend to stay way from anyone that preaches their beliefs about church and God. We will never see eye to eye. Gandhi once said that he liked Jesus Christ and that it's to bad none of those that claim to be Christians are anything like him. I have my own spiritual beliefs, but I tend to keep them to myself. I have a simple belief that I read in a book about Goddesses. It said, "If it harms no one, do as thy will" Most religions don't see it that way and don't get it.

You opened up to the wrong people that you thought were friends. Sadly, they are not.

My condolences on the passing of your mom. Never easy to lose a loved family member.

[Sophia Claire]

In the last few weeks, I decided to open up to two more women i have been talking to a long tome, one, 30 years. Both were shocked. Both said it was wrong, and one said to throw the dress away. That God hates it, and I was born to be a man, not a woman. I am saddened that they have no desire to understand. My mom died yesterday, and I am feeling a bit low, but mostly about the hostility my friends have toward any dressing. I don't see most of society or religious people EVER accepting.

First, I'm so sorry to hear about your mother. That's very sad.

Now, your friends... They're reactions are horrible! On behalf of tolerant religious folks everywhere (and there are lots of us), I apologize for their reactions! Tell them to read Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart." God knew that you were going to be like this! It didn't offend him enough to take you before you were born.

I totally agree with everybody here, you should consider talking to somebody. I did when my wife left, and at first it was hard to relive it all in his office, but eventually that one hour a week became something I couldn't wait for. It helped so much just to talk about it. I recommend it highly.

I'm sorry all this is happening to you...

Hugs,
Sophie

[Sandra1746]

First, my sympathy on the loss of your mother.

Your GG friends won't appreciate it if you tell them they are practicing cafeteria religion, but they are. As others have noted the OT says you can sell your children into slavery, have multiple wives and concubines, and execute your disobedient children; along with saying not to cross dress. Ask them if they wear clothing made from different fibers or eat bacon cheeseburgers (!!!).

If they claim the NT "repealed" those rules ask them to explain why some and not others? Narrow minded people are not worth the trouble of keeping as close friends.

Just my $0.02,
Sandra1746

[Jen60]

[QUOTE=NathalieX66;2877147]The Bible is full of contradictions.

Ain't it the truth!

Hugs,

Jennifer

[Julie1123]

If you look at the numbers. That's the opinion of 2 people out of *pauses to check the current world population* 7,021,000,000 (According to Wikipedia (I know I know bad source bad source)). ;)

*hugs* Hang in there.

[Mythic]

One of my best friends had the same reaction. Tried quite hard to turn me to God. Didn't matter cause it had nothing to do with my beliefs. I ended our friendship. I don't mind if someone doesn't agree with the way I live, but I cannot stand someone trying to change my beleifs. I am cool with everyones religious views, and if you share your beliefs that's fine. Just don't try to force it on others.

[Vieja]

I really don't understand why some people get upset about cross dressing. Gays and Lesbians are more openly accepted, why not cross dressers? It is so sad Alice when friends turn on you, I hope the hurt

goes away soon.


Vieja

[Kaz]

I am not wanting to diss your 'friends' Alice, but I am continually reminded of a quote from the German philosopher Schiller - 'against stupidity the God's themselves labour in vain'...

I have met so many people over my lifetime who use a religious text to support their bigoted, small-minded and narrow belief systems. Christianity is awash with it from the early days of the Holy Roman Empire to modern day catholicism - burning heretics in the name of Jesus... it was all about politics and power. Abusing young boys in recent years?

Islam, Judaism and Christianity all come from the same basic monotheistic beliefs... they have all three really behaved well in terms of tolerance! NOT!

Set your sights on what you hold as your values/principles and live your live without the need for others to agree with you. Be true to yourself and others will follow.

[suzy1]

I am so sorry about your mom Alice.

I am crossdressers most infamous atheist but even I know that people that show real Christian love and understanding would not condemn your C.D.ing.
I have learnt that from meeting them here.
Never loose sight of the fact that although we are your only support, there are a lot of us here and we are real people. And we care about you.

SUZY

[Beverley Sims]

I am sorry Alice, religious bigotry reigns supreme.

[LeaP]

I don't see most of society or religious people EVER accepting.

I don't know what it is with some religious people. You often get the line from them that "God doesn't make mistakes" ... yet they have no problem fixing anything and everything in life they don't like for themselves.

[Foxglove]

I was born to be a man, not a woman. I am saddened that they have no desire to understand.

Tell them you were born to be TG. God is omnipotent, so if he'd wanted you to be a man, he'd have made you a man. If he'd wanted you to be a woman, he'd have made you a woman. Instead he made you TG, because that's what he wanted you to be.

And I'm sorry about your mom, Alice. I lost mine about this time last year, so I know how it is.

Best wishes, Annabelle

[kimdl93]

Alice, I think you have to view their reaction within the context of their lives and yours. You are a member of a fundementalist religious organization and I'm presuming the same for the GGs you confided in. Their attitudes towards CDing and transgenderism are certainly consistent with their religious beliefs, but are not representative of all religious people or broader society.

I understand your attachment to the community that shares many of your religious beliefs and have great empathy for the difficulty or reconciling your personal identity with the more rigid ideology of that community. Perhaps, as Bree suggests, you might seek out a TG support group to establish some connections and perhaps friendships outside the religious community.

[RainyNightGirl]

Alice, I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your mom.

We all take a gamble when we come out to people, some times it pays off and sometimes it doesn't. At least you now know that those people were not mean to be real friends. There are other great people out there who will accept for who you are, there are people who would want to be your friend, you probably know them but maybe just not well enough yet. When one door closes another opens....

I wish you peace with the passing of your Mom. All of us on this forum are your support.....

Hugs
Natasha x

[Janelle_C]

Alice I'm very sorry to hear about your mom. Grief is a very difficult thing to try and deal with sometime, I would suggest that you concentrate on getting over your grief before you out yourself to any more friends. I'm very sorry any time someone uses God to spread hate and bigotry not all of us Christians are haters, a lot of us are open minded and try to show love and compassion. Hugs, Janelle

[GingerLeigh]

I'm so sorry to hear about your mother, my sincerest condolences. As for having a NEED to tell someone, I fully understand. Not all of us choose the right people to tell though, and it isn't always the religious ones that are totally intolerant. I find people use religion to justify their crappy attitudes towards anyone or anything they don't understand. Go made you this way, don't let anyone tell you you're less than human for doing what you do. Crossdressing hurts no-one, religion often does.

Ginger

[sometimes_miss]

Then WHY are you telling them?

Because there are a very few females out there that will accept us; so we live on, with the faint hope of finding one of them. It's kind of like trying to win the lottery, though; there's absolutely no way to know which ticket/woman will be the winning one.

[Alice Torn]

Thank you to all of you who posted. I am doing ok, now. My sister is almost freaking out about my mom, though. She never was with a man, has no kids, and was glued to my mom. She is like a 13 yr old. I am learning to just have teflon about things, like rejection, being misunderstood. I never understood either, for a long time, and still am a bit confused by it all.

[Lorileah]

I am very sorry about your mother.

As far as the the rest of it, those people are of little worth in your life. If they don't love you for who you are then they don't love you. When it comes to religion they have no say. There is only one who can judge. Maybe someday they will realize that. Just because it does not fit their picture of the world doesn't mean they can photoshop the world

[Tina B.]

Alice, so sorry to hear about your mom, mine is 93, we have had two close calls this spring. On her Birthday she informed me this would probably be her last, and I'm afraid she maybe right.
As far as your friends, sorry, you just never know how that will go. But not all religious people will feel that way. While I'm not a believer, I know that at our local Pride Parade, It's more about the Trans groups, than the gays, and just about every church in town shows up to invite everyone to there church, and they all talk about inclusion, you can be gay, or Transgendered, and they don't seem to care. Maybe it is just how Conservative your area is. I wish you the best, and remember, at least you have us, and we care, we listen, and we don't judge you just for being who your god made you to be.
Tina B.